Can I use too much progesterone cream?

by Vicki
(Evansville, IN)

Can I use too much progesterone cream?

I am feeling great after using your cream for 1.5 months, I have been using it twice a day, a couple of squirts (I don't know exactly how much).

Can I use too much? If so, what are the symptoms to watch for?

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Jun 24, 2008
Can I use to much progesterone cream?
by: Tania

Hi Wray

I dont know where to read your reply to people, such as the one I'm writing as above question.

Where do I go if I want to read what your reply to such questions is?

Please let me know, because it is interesting what people ask you, so we would like to see what you reply.

Jul 01, 2008
Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

Hi Vicki. So pleased you're feeling great! It's very difficult to use too much progesterone when in a cream form. Dr Dalton would give her patients with post natal psychosis 2400mg/day via injections and suppositories, which is about one and a quarter tubes of Natpro per day!

Admittedly they needed it, whereas most people don't need anywhere near that amount. The only symptom of overdose I have been able to find is one of euphoria! Joking apart, sleepiness is another symptom.

The successful studies done with progesterone used between 100-200mg/day, some going as high as 300-600mg/day, so you can safely assume you will not overdose using Natpro. Incidentally the tube would last you 3.3 days if you used 600mg/day. Take care, Wray


Jul 01, 2008
Answer to Tania
by: Wray

Hi Tania. Please bookmark the page where the contribution was made. Just like the home page, as people make contributions links will be listed on that page and you can click through on
them to follow the comments. Hope this makes sense! Take care Wray

Jul 15, 2008
Too much progesterone cream
by: Alice

You can actually have too much progesterone cream. What you have got to remember is that estrogen and progesterone should be kept in balance. The best way to do this is to test your hormones, saliva is the best way of testing these hormones.

I don't know why you are taking progesterone cream - menopause, thyroid problems, PCOS? - but it would probably be worth getting tested - it isn't overly expensive to do, but for those who supplement, I would recommend it!

Symptoms of progesterone overdose could include fatigue, headache, dizziness, bloating, cramping, diarrhoea, nausea, back pain, irritability, breast pain, viral infection, coughing...

Transdermal (through the skin) cream should be applied at about 15-30 mg twice a day. Doctors would say differently as they are used to oral dosing approaches - 90% of what is taken is consumed by the liver.

Wray - were the studies you mentioned with transdermal progesterone supplementation or oral/suppositories? As these latter levels will be much higher than is needed for transdermal.
Hope this is useful :)

Dec 05, 2008
Natpro
by: Anonymous

Hi there, I have been through 11 months of constant nausea I have been tested for everything, I have also been applying Natpro for the same amount of time.

I have basically ruled out everything and yesterday came to the conclusion maybe it is the Natpro. I checked my diary to find I started applying it around the same time as I started getting the nausea. My mother also said do you feel like you have morning sickness and yes it is exactly the same as I had it, all day and night, so got me thinking, any help would be appreciated.

I have never done a saliva test and was on the cream for fibroids, so maybe even though I am estrogen dominant, I also have enough progesterone, what are your thoughts, any help appreciated. Many thanks, Jacquie

Dec 08, 2008
Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

Hi Jaquie. I don't know how much cream you're using, so it's difficult to advise.

When first starting progesterone symptoms of oestrogen excess can be experienced, these and more, are all early pregnancy symptoms, including the nausea. If a woman does have nausea in pregnancy a dose of 10ml/day is needed to stop it. This is ±330mg progesterone per day. So if you still have nausea after using it for so long I can only assume you're not using enough.

Alice has some good points to make but the symptoms she mentions are all oestrogen dominance. Although interestingly diarrhoea can be a symptom. Progesterone is a remarkable diuretic, so any excess water is excreted, hence the diarrhoea.

There are hundreds of studies done on progesterone, injections, IV transfusions, suppositories, transdermal creams, oral, gels, sublingual drops have all been studied. The creams have been slammed in the past, but when looking at the dose in these studies, they have all been too low to have any affect. A dose of 20mg/day, which is the average amount women normally make during a monthly cycle, will not have any effect if there is a problem. Oral does have to be high to overcome the destruction in the gut and metabolism by the liver. Do hope this helps, take care Wray

Jan 27, 2009
Using too much progesterone cream
by: Maria

I have been using progesterone for two months now and feel well. Just one concern - my boobs have got bigger and I have put on weight on my bum, hips and thighs.

I am now wondering if I am using too much. I have not had a period for two years so I guess I am over the menopause.
What do you think?

Maria

Feb 02, 2009
Too much progesterone
by: Anonymous

I used to use the cream but wondered if I was using too much or too little.

So I went to an Optimal Health Dr. and had the saliva and blood tests done. Although we haven't gone over them I did find out that he did not test me for estrogen because my periods are normal. I just feel fatigued and felt my hormones are off because of not sleeping well and other symptoms.

Well he gave me 35 mg of progererone pills and after about 10-12 days I started getting breast pain, breast swelling and heart palpitations along with more fatigue and my depression remained.

I've been reading on here that there are no symptoms, so I thought I would share what mine are.

I called the Doctor and he told me to stop the pills immediately and that those were the symptoms of too much progesterone. So now I'm back to square one.


Feb 03, 2009
Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

The symptoms you experienced were those of oestrogen dominance. It's not the progesterone directly causing it, but too much oestrogen.

Initially progesterone therapy will make the body more sensitive to the oestrogen present. This is because progesterone activates the oestrogen receptors so making oestrogen the dominant hormone, making many women feel worse.

Progesterone gradually becomes the dominant hormone and symptoms begin to ease. Some women never experience estrogen dominance, in others it can take several days, whilst in others it can last for three or more months.

Much depends on the amount of excess oestrogen that is present.
Men never experience oestrogen dominance when first using progesterone. Conversely supplemental oestrogen can initially make us feel better.

The reason for this is oestrogen activates the progesterone receptors so making progesterone the dominant hormone, but it wears off as oestrogen becomes the dominant hormone.

This is one of the reasons so many women keep changing their HRT script. There are some women who do not suffer any adverse affects, but the risks of using HRT or the contraceptive pill for any length of time are not worth it. Take care Wray

Feb 12, 2009
Hair Loss
by: Anonymous

I began using transdermal progesterone cream 1/4tsp daily after reading Dr. Lee's book. He suggested low progesterone may be the cause of hair loss. Has anyone experienced hair loss during menopause?

I began losing my hair at the onset of menopause, late 40's. I am now 54. I have been using the cream for about 2 months now. No improvement on the hair loss yet. My thyroid is normal.

Feb 15, 2009
Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

I don't know the strength of the cream you're using, but if it's a low dose one, ie, 900mg/60g container, then 1/4tsp is inadequate.

Excess oestrogen is converted to androgens, it's the androgens causing the hair loss. This occurs particularly during peri-menopause/menopause when progesterone levels are low, so there is nothing to suppress the oestrogen.

To prevent hair loss you need at least 100mg/day of progesterone. If other symptoms are severe 200mg/day would be advisable. Once the problem has resolved, the dose can be gradually reduced until the optimum is reached. Take care Wray

Feb 15, 2009
Re: Hair loss
by: Mary Ann

Thank you very much for your suggestion of using 100mg progesterone cream to help with hair loss. I have been using Emerita Progest in individual packets. Each packet contains 1/4tsp(20mg) and I have only been using 20mg daily.

I should increase it to 2 pktsxAM and 3 pktsxPM to equal 100mg. My doctor prescribed progesterone 100mg capsules because she is more familiar with the caps vs the cream. However, from what I have read, transdermal is more effective than the capsules. What is your opinion on the cream vs capsules? Should I take the 100mg capsules as you suggest is the strength I need or continue the transdermal cream?

Feb 18, 2009
Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

Hi Mary Ann. I think you'll find the higher dose should help. You might find it quite costly in packet form though! It's easy enough to reduce the dose once symptoms have gone. And you are right, transdermal is a better delivery system than oral progesterone. Much of it is destroyed as it passes through the gut and liver, which also has to metabolise it, thus putting an unnecessary strain on the liver.

You'll notice in one of the papers below, that the oral dose in the study was 300mg/day as opposed to the 90mg vaginal progesterone. Although the vaginal route was slightly better in all counts, the outcome in the study was not significantly different, but the dose certainly was! The big advantage to the cream is it can be used anywhere, including the vagina, pessaries as used in the study or oral progesterone can only be used via one route. Take care Wray

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/10/2085

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713671349~db
=all

http://www.menopausejournal.com/pt/re/menopause/abstract.000421
92-200512020-
00019.htm;jsessionid=G9vQGJ2FjtWkN4jXHSTKWdhfsgHhvxNMQ42LYW
nHvhH1rXz7HjTG!-1465501618!-949856144!8091!-1

Aug 29, 2009
Too much progesterone
by: Anonymous

I have been taking 150ml of progesterone cream everyday and I feel awful. I am weak, tired, out of sorts and my breasts hurt and are swollen. I also have terrible heartburn. I am going to reduce the amount as I feel awful.

Sep 04, 2009
Too much progestorone converted to Androgens
by: Rana

I am a post menapousal woman (60 years old). My doctor recently tested my blood estradiol and testosterone. My estradiol is 26 pg/ml and my testosterone is 52 ng/dl. He recommended that I get a dose of estrogen 2.25 and progesterone 35 combination (compounded cream). He thinks I can stay young at this dose. He did not order a blood test for progesterone saying that blood test for progesterone is difficult to do.

I have a concern to take progesterone without a test thinking that my testosterone level is pretty high already and additional progesterone can even make the testosterone go higher. Can this happen? Do I have a legitamate concern Wray? What do you think? On a side note I compared the price for the compounded progesterone cream with Natpro, your cream appears to be much more affordable.

Sep 09, 2009
Too much progestorone converted to Androgens
by: Wray

Hi Rana. Blood tests are generally not as accurate as saliva tests, so I never recommend them. I actually don't bother with tests, but prefer to go by symptoms. Tests only tell the level of hormone in the system, not how we're feeling! I would avoid the extra oestrogen too, at 60 you are still making some in your fat cells, but not enough progesterone to counter it, particularly if you have adverse symptoms. The progesterone will have no beneficial effect if it has to compete with oestrogen, and if the '35' means the dose you've been given, it will have no effect on you at all. It really needs to be between 100-200mg/day to have any, this is the level most successful studies used. And progesterone suppresses excess testosterone, so don't be concerned it will convert. You might like to read some research papers to get an idea of doses used, please click on this link.

Thanks for your kind words! We do try to keep the price as low as possible, and the cream as natural as possible. Take care.

Nov 12, 2009
Hair loss
by: danita

I just wanted to let people know what happened to do with my hair loss. I'm in perimenopause and my progesterone level was so low it would barely register. I started taking 60 mg a day and its still low so I'm taking 100mg a day till it gets in the norms. I also started taking Biotin for my hair because it was coming out so bad and it felt very coarse like it would break in half. I can honestly say low progesterone will cause extreme hair loss but with adjustments and a little help from biotin your hair will start growing back or at least mine is. Hope everyone well.

Dec 28, 2009
Absolutely
by: Sarah

Speaking from someone who is moderately obsessed with natural hormone replacement, you can absolutely use too much progesterone. When I first began using the cream I was using almost ten times as much as I should have and I literally gained ten pounds in ten days and my breasts got huge and swollen. Since I researched and experimented with the correct dosage, I have discovered that less is more and patience is a virtue. You cannot over stimulate your body with a natural hormone you need to slowly introduce it to your body. It may take six months it may take a year, but regular saliva testing and symptom reviews should get you back on track. Hope this helps.

Dec 29, 2009
Hair Loss
by: Wray

Hi Danita. You are right, low progesterone is implicated in hair loss. If progesterone is low there is generally excess oestrogen, which is converted into androgens. It's the androgens which cause the loss. I would suggest you also take 2000mg/day of the B vitamin inositol, often called the anti-alopecia vitamin, plus 2000mg/day of N-acetyl cysteine. The hair, nails and skin comprise up to 14% cysteine, supplementing with this makes them all healthy and strong. Take care Wray

Jan 14, 2010
Count me in TOO much Progesterone Cream
by: Donna

I felt great in the beginning and even had some euphoria. Had heart palpitations, blood pressure went up some, modest weight gain, and this last time, my breasts were very painful, hard and extremely swollen. I gained weight all over, had constipation, fatigue and such.

I talked to my pharmacist and he suggested making the dose 40 mg day 14 to 26. Not sure what to make of this.

Is this just something that I will have to live through while my hormones get normalized or am I really getting too much?


Feb 24, 2010
Acne - Rosacea
by: Anonymous

Hello All, it is extremely interesting to read all of your comments. I would be grateful for help here, as I'm at wit's end.

I am late forties, and in 2006 had severe symptoms of endometriosis. I visited a herbalist and took lots of supplements, I had some success but this was short lived. To cut a long story short, I stopped taking all herbs and supplements as I felt that my liver was possibly congested (too many supplements).

In the past 3 cycles/months I started to apply progesterone cream from day's 12-14 until days 26. However my acne rosacea has returned, my face is covered. Also stomach bloated, and symptoms of IBS. Also appetite has increased. However, I do feel more positive, foggy thinking is going, not sure about hair loss, calmed down a bit.

Does anyone feel that the rosacea is really oestrogen increasing until a balance occurs. Or am I just unlucky. Please help. Kind regards, Fi

Mar 03, 2010
Acne - Rosacea
by: Wray

Hi Fi. Endo is a difficult problem to treat, it's due to excess oestrogen, please see this web page.

Normally an aromatase inhibitor is given to suppress the oestrogen, but high dose progesterone can help too. I'm currently helping a girl in China who is using 200mg/day and she tells me her pain has gone. The adverse symptoms you are experiencing are caused by excess oestrogen, this can happen when first using progesterone, please see this web page.

You don't mention how much you're using, but it sounds a low dose if the symptoms are persisting after 3 months. I have no idea if the rosacea is exacerbated by oestrogen, but it wouldn't surprise to if it did. Oestrogen is an excitatory hormone, and can cause inflammation, higher levels than normal are found in inflammatory diseases like endo, RA, lupus, fibroids etc. You could try a small amount on a tiny area of your face and see if it helps. I would also suggest you have a vitamin D test done, many skin problems are due to a lack of vitamin D. For instance acne responds to vitamin D. Please see this web site for more info. Take care, Wray

Mar 08, 2010
Acne and progesterone cream
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray, many thanks for taking the time to reply. I applied only a very small amount of the cream, however the cysts on my face were horrendous. I will not bore with further details. I have never suffered from acne so severe. It is such a complicated issue re oestrogen dominance. My gut feeling is that my thyroid is affected in some way, and judging by the way that some of my symptoms improved with prog. cream, I think oestrogen may well be the culprit.

I do need to go and have some blood tests done. I have just started taking a low does of vitamin B complex, also D3. I have also cut out alchohol, started drinking liquorice tea for adrenals (I think there maybe a problem there). So trying very hard.

I must admit that the progesterone cream did help with hair loss, just a shame about the acne. Hopefully in a couple of months time, I may just try and return to it. I noticed since I stopped taking cream, hair loss has been awful, quite depressing. Thanks again for your reply. A very helpful web site. Kind Regards, Fi.

Mar 10, 2010
Acne and progesterone cream
by: Wray

Fi I'm now confused! As previously you mentioned you have rosacea, but now you mention acne (acne vulgaris), very different conditions. If it is acne then please have a look at this web page. The progesterone will make it worse initially as it stimulates oestrogen, this in turn upsets blood glucose and can lead to insulin resistance. IR has been observed in people with acne. Hormone balance is so complicated! I wish it were simpler, but it isn't. Acne is caused by high insulin levels, this in turn stimulates androgen and IGF-1 production, both of which stimulate the sebaceous glands in the skin.

It's essential to avoid all starchy carbs, to keep blood glucose stable, to lower androgen production. Progesterone will help to stabilise blood glucose and suppress the androgens, but it takes time. Please consider taking 100mg zinc per day for 1-3 months, often a lack of zinc exacerbates acne. This is a high dose, but safe if used for 1-3 months, reduce slowly to 15mg/day if you find it helping. High androgens also cause hair loss, which is why it's back now you've stopped using progesterone. The B vitamin inositol helps with hair loss, it's often called the anti-alopecia vitamin, please consider taking 4000mg/day. Interestingly inositol can reverse insulin resistance, cycles within cycles! You might like to read about insulin resistance.

Thanks for the kind words about the site! Take care, Wray

Mar 11, 2010
Progesterone
by: Kat

I am 42 and was given a prescription for a 2% progesterone cream dosage 60 grams twice daily when I was 39. I absolutely loved it and all of my symptons of what I liked to call "someone stealing my youth" vanished. However, in the past year, I am finding that I need to slow down the dosage drastically and can not take it twice daily and sometimes only 3x per week. By the 3rd time (amount the size of a pea each time) my breasts swell and are painful, I want to inhale all foods, exhausted (despite that I work out daily), 5lbs weight gain and can't remember a darn thing.

Is this due to my having to much progesterone? If so, what should I scale it down to as I do not want to give up entirely in fear that I will go back to the way I was. My libido is fine and somewhat on overdrive is this caused by excessive progesterone too?

Thank you so much. I've read all the posts and they have been extremely insightful.

Mar 13, 2010
You need more progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Kat. Strange as this might sound, I believe you need more progesterone, not less. You are now in the beginning stages of peri-menopause (PM) and appear to be suffering from excess oestrogen. You might like to look at this web page. PM can start 10 years before menopause, the average age is 51. Please see this web page for more information.

Our progesterone levels start dropping round about age 35, as we stop ovulating each month. But oestrogen doesn't drop until menopause. So the ratio of the two hormones becomes unbalanced, hence our problems. Excess oestrogen also causes weight gain, as it causes water retention and stimulates fat cells to divide and multiply. It also causes insulin resistance, which in turn causes weight gain. With dropping progesterone levels and normal oestrogen levels many adverse symptoms occur, including those you mention. I suggest rubbing the cream onto your breasts if they become tender. Mastodynia and fibrocystic breast disease are caused by excess oestrogen, it's an excitatory hormone, progesterone is calming. Please see this. And this.

I'm a bit puzzled by the dose you say you were given, as 60 grams is 2oz, or the size of a standard tube or tub of progesterone cream. This works out to 1200mg progesterone per day of a 2% cream, quite a large amount! If it was 6g/day, that would give you 120mg/day, which is in the range I suggest, 100-200mg/day, dependant on severity of symptoms. The pea sized amount you say you now use would be giving you about 20mg/day, to my mind no where near enough. Take care, Wray

Mar 13, 2010
Migraines
by: JJ

Interesting reading here! Can anyone help me out too please? I started using progesterone cream about 3 months ago - about 20-25mg a day as I have perimeno symptoms and the migraines I've had for 30 years increased to an average of 1 a week (for a minimum of 3 days). I haven't noticed any change whatsoever from using the cream, my hair's no better (it got thin and brittle a year or so ago), my libido is virtually nil and the migraines still come and go randomly and painfully. There's so much conflicting advice about the correct prog dosage I'm not sure what to do.

Also, they all recommend changing the places you put the cream, how can you rotate body parts if you have to use more than the one dose? I'm only a littlun and 2 inner thighs take a whole 25mg dose with alot of rubbing in!

Mar 15, 2010
Many thanks
by: Fi

Wray, Many thanks for your helpful and indepth response, it is so helpful to have this information. I have purchased supplements and will see how I go. Apologies, I suffer both with rosacea and acne (cystic), it was the rosacea that re-appeared in the 1st cycle, then in following 2 cycles, cyctic acne re-appeared and increased, on chin and jaw. Your reply has given me the answer: I failed to mention a very relevant point that I was diagnosed with PCOS at an early age. Many thanks again, and I will follow your advice.

Mar 15, 2010
Migraines?
by: Wray

HI JJ. 20-25mg is the amount our body's make in a normal luteal phase. There's nothing normal about peri-menopause or migraines! During PM our oestrogen levels remain high, but progesterone is dropping. In fact it starts dropping from about age 35. With excess oestrogen in our bodies, it's converted into androgens, these male hormones cause hair to drop out of the head, plus it causes facial hair to grow too. Don't be too concerned about rotating the areas, as you say it becomes impossible! Don't always rub it on inner thighs or arms either, there are progesterone receptors all over the skin. 95% of the skin comprises keratinocytes, these absorb it well, as do hair follicles. In fact there has been some success with balding men, not all unfortunately! Please see this paper on keratinocytes.

I recommend between 100-200mg/day, but before you increase the amount you use please see this web page. As you're in PM please see this page also. I would suggest you try taking about 2000mg/day inositol, this B vitamin is often called the anti-alopecia vitamin. Also 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, about 14% of the hair, nails and skin comprises cysteine, it keeps them strong and healthy.

Finally please see these papers on migraine and progesterone:
Paper 1
Paper 2
Take care, Wray

Mar 17, 2010
Inositol Supplement
by: Anonymous

Dear Wray, one thing I did wish to add was that whilst using NP cream over recent cycles, my eyebrows started to grow back, would this suggest that oestrogen dominance had been affecting thyroid? I must admit for the 1st time in years whilst using NP cream, the "brain fog" and my concentration levels soared. I felt great mentally. I do believe in oestrogen dominance now! Since stopping the fog has returned.

Last quick question I promise, I forgot to ask, you mentioned inositol. I previously bought choline/inositol combo. Is this ok to use?

I thank you for your help, I have been so unwell, and my GP has simply labeled it as stress. It is difficult. Thank you for your help, it is so much appreciated. Fi.





Mar 17, 2010
Normal progesterone levels
by: Rana

Wray, could you let me know what the normal progesterone, estrogen and testosterone levels are in a young menstruating woman?

Mar 18, 2010
Many thanks
by: Wray

Hi Fi. Ah, confusion cleared up! And PCO throws a whole new light on it too, this is caused by oxidative stress. You might like to see this web page. I still have to update it, but research shows a lack of antioxidants causes PCO, in particular vitamin D. Please have a test done, there's now a pandemic of vitamin D deficiency. It all started when we were told to stay out of the sun or cover ourselves with sunscreen! Most of which contain carcinogenic ingredients, it's essential to only use a natural sunscreen, a very rare beast. There is one on the market, Sunumbra, which is certified 30 spf and UVA 5 star.

Back to the PCO, a lack of vitamin D can cause insulin resistance, which is often present in PCO. A lack of antioxidants causes low grade chronic inflammation, also found in PCO. High parathyroid hormone is present too, this only occurs if vitamin D is low. Two other antioxidants are vital, N-acetyl cysteine (1200-1800mg/day) and arginine (1600mg/day). We are having success with a simple complex of 1200mg cysteine and 1600mg argnine, but have also made up a more complex formula with high dose inositol, all the B vitamins, vitamin D, plus a few other vital ingredients. Please see these papers :
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
Paper 4
Paper 5
Paper 6
Take care, Wray

Mar 18, 2010
Thank you ever so much!
by: Kat

Dear Wray, I have learned more from your response then any physician I have ever been to! Thank you... thank you!

Mar 19, 2010
Inositol Supplement
by: Wray

Hi Fi. Firstly, I don't mind how many questions you ask me! Although thinning eyebrows are normally regarded as a thyroid problem, I do wonder if it's not more an excess oestrogen problem and low progesterone. Oestrogen suppresses thyroid function, supplementing with progesterone would suppress oestrogen, so the hair grows back. I love the patterns in this work, or cycles within cycles, so if you'll bear with my theorising, here goes. A low level of vitamin D affects the benefits of progesterone, this was discovered late last year. To date there is no info if the reverse is true, ie low progesterone affects the benefits of vitamin D, but as with everything in the body, there are balances and counterbalances. Low vitamin D affects the thyroid, because parathyroid hormone rises, this slows the thyroid down, leading to, amongst many things, loss of eyebrow hair. So... if my theory is correct, supplementing with progesterone, would stimulate vitamin D levels, which would reduce parathyroid levels, so the thyroid starts functioning again and the hair grows back. So is it high oestrogen, or low progesterone and vitamin D? All these would have to be checked to know the full story. Probably all three have a bearing on it.

Choline and inositol work together, but the inositol has to be in a high dose, about 4000mg/day to benefit. If you take a combo, you would be getting far more choline than you need, which is about 500mg/day. It would also be hugely costly. Far better to get the inositol in powder form, it tastes delicious anyway. One of the few that does! Finally stress drops progesterone levels sharply, as cortisol, our stress hormone, is made from progesterone. Please use more progesterone if stressed. Take care, Wray

Mar 19, 2010
Normal progesterone levels
by: Wray

Hi Rana, please have a look at this web page. Take care, Wray

Mar 19, 2010
Thank you ever so much!
by: Wray

Hi Kat. Bless you! Take care, Wray

Mar 22, 2010
What about oral Progesterone?
by: Sarah

I am 52 and was having symptoms of extreme anxiety, sleeplessness and periods were beginning to be hit and miss. I had my hormones checked and am Estrogen dominant and still had some progesterone but it was lower, much lower than the estrogen. I have been taking the oral progesterone, a product called Progon B. The concentration of this product is 8 pellets = 105mg. I am TAKING ONE PELLET and feel sedated. I feel depressed and non-vital. My breasts do not hurt and I am sleeping like a baby. BUT the sedation in the daytime is depressing me. I use to be very vibrant and outgoing. Now I can barely squeak out a 'hello'. I don't know if it is the progesterone or not. I have stopped it for a day or so, but I get some breakthrough anxiety. Any suggestions? Would cream be a better route? Thanks.

Mar 23, 2010
Thank you!
by: Fi

Wray, I just wanted to say thank you for all of your help, and sharing so much of your expertise. I can't tell you how much this is appreciated. You have provided so many answers for me, and no doubt countless others. The pieces of the jigsaw are at last starting to fit together. Until I looked at this site, I could not find any answers.

I have decided that I will start NP cream again. I will say that after using inisotol and choline supplement I have seen a big improvement, not so many of the dips in blood sugar levels.

If it were not for this site, I may have thrown my NP cream away. However, I now realise just how much it helped previously.

I am so grateful to you for taking the time to help me. I will track down some inisotol powder. Kind Regards.

Mar 23, 2010
What about oral Progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Sarah. Oral progesterone is not the best route, much of it gets destroyed in the gut and liver, please see these papers...
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
Paper 4

Although you have oestrogen dominance, when first using progesterone it can get worse. Please see here. It's a question of persevering through this phase. I can't tell how long it will last as it depends so much on symptoms, the severity and how long you've had them. But as you have anxiety please see this page. It gives a list of natural anti anxiety nutrients you could take to help. Most of the successful studies used between 100-200mg/day, some going higher. I would aim for somewhere in this region. Take care, Wray

Mar 25, 2010
Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi Fi. So pleased the pieces fit together. I received an email last month from a woman in the UK I've been helping for about a year, who had dreadful cravings and PMS each month. The energy complex and the Natpro did help the cravings, but three days before her cycle they returned, plus the 'monster' PMS as she called it. I discovered she was using very little progesterone, about 30-40mg/day, I asked her to use 2tsp, or 330mg/day. She was very apprehensive but did. I received a report back two days ago saying she was on day 23 of her 26 day cycle, and had no cravings or PMS at all! I'm not sure who was more delighted! Take care, Wray

Apr 05, 2010
Help!
by: Anonymous

I have been using compounded creams for over a year. I am 61 years young. I had uterine cancer in Dec 2008. I had hot flashs, weight gain, miserable, hair loss... life was good until the last 2 months. I'm wondering what went wrong. I'm having hot flushes every 2 hours and can't sleep and I'm feeling very grumpy... I am doing Progesterone 85mg twice daily on my inner thighs, 4mg (80/20)once a day on my lower abdomen. I developed bad itching when I applied it vaginally. 2 mg Testosterone once a day on my wrists. I don't know what has happened.

Apr 05, 2010
Thank you
by: JJ

Just a quick 'thank you' to Wray for the reply - I'll try what you suggested but I think you're right I definitely need to increase the progesterone! Thanks :-)

Apr 05, 2010
Am I taking too much progesterone?
by: Tammy

Hi Wray, very informative thread, thank you! I'm 40 years old and currently being treated for estrogen dominance, hypothyroidism, non-stop menstrual flooding/clotting and overall wacky hormones. When first diagnosed I had such low progesterone levels that they barely registered. But after being put on compounded progesterone lozenges (twice per day at 100mg) for the past 6 months my bleeding stopped, periods regulated, hair stopped falling out, it's been a life saver.

My question is, since I'm still testing with very high estrogen levels and last month my Doctor recommended that I DOUBLE my progesterone intake. Since doing this I am so extremely fatigued I can barely get out of bed (and with two small children this is a problem of course!) I'm extremely constipated, have back pain, my menstrual cycle is thrown off again, I have cold sweats, nausea and just generally feeling like I have the flu. After reading this thread I'm wondering, could I be taking too much or do I just need to wait it out? Thanks in advance for your response.

Apr 06, 2010
Help!
by: Wray

There are two possible reasons. One you are going through a stressful patch, more so than normal, stress drops progesterone levels sharply. Secondly you are using testosterone. I don't believe any woman needs more of this, often given for low libido, or because tests show it is low. Progesterone is excellent for low libido, far safer too. Testosterone suppresses progesterone levels, which could be occurring with you. Plus the enzyme aromatase converts testosterone into oestrogen, thereby increasing your oestrogen level with it's attendant symptoms, some of which you describe. Although progesterone is an effective aromatase inhibitor, and you're using a good amount, the extra testosterone you're using would counter this to some extent. I suggest you stop the testosterone and see if that brings relief.

If you can afford it I do know 400-600mg/day of progesterone stops all hot flushes within 3-4 days. Incidentally aromatase inhibitor drugs are often given to women with cancer. Progesterone, as a natural aromatase inhibitor, has no adverse side affects, unlike the drugs. Please don't limit rubbing the cream to your inner thighs. The skin comprises 95% keratinocytes, these have abundant progesterone receptors, in other words, you can rub the cream anywhere. Even hair follicles absorb progesterone well. The itching in the vagina could be one of the ingredients in the cream you're using, progesterone does not cause itching. To find out more about the ingredients please see here. Take care, Wray

Apr 06, 2010
Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi JJ. Oh good, do hope it helps! I've yet to find it doesn't, but so many sites, books, doctors warn against using too high a dose. I've yet to find adverse symptoms with a high dose either. Besides, once symptoms have subsided it's so easy to reduce to the optimum amount. There's little point in using a high dose if not required, just a waste of money! Take care, Wray

Apr 06, 2010
Am I taking too much progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Tammy. Thanks for the kind words and good news the progesterone has helped. You're going through oestrogen dominance symptoms again! Wonderful you have a doctor who doesn't hesitate to use high doses. Does he have a website where I can get his information? I'm trying to 'collect' doctors like him! There are very few. If you want to learn more about oestrogen dominance please have a look here.

Although you've been using high dose progesterone, doubling it will still cause the oestrogen receptor sites to be activated. There are two things you can do... wait it out as you say, or reduce the dose back down to the 200mg/day and increase gradually. The second option will take longer to reduce your oestrogen levels, but it will give you your life back!

Having said that I'm not convinced lozenges are the best delivery route. The dose has to be far higher than needed with a cream. According to one report more than 50%, occasionally up to 70%, of the total dose of hormone is swallowed. Once swallowed stomach acids and the liver will destroy up to 90% of the hormone. Although this does not affect oestrogen, both testosterone and progesterone are not suited to this route. Absorption of transdermal progesterone cream has been found to be as effective as injections and to enter circulation rapidly. It has an advantage over all the other systems as it can be used where needed. On painful areas, in the vagina for dryness and inflammation, excellent for burns, on the face where it helps with wrinkles and more. Please see these papers, including one on oral progesterone...
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
Paper 4
Paper 5
Take care, Wray

Apr 06, 2010
Progesterone cream
by: Danita

I take it and they told me not to use it in excess because it can cause facial hair growth and voice become really coarse, like manly. Some of the symptoms are irreversible. I have to get my levels checked regularly. I seem to get tired if it gets low and have more enery when its level and better sex drive. Good luck.

Apr 06, 2010
Hair loss
by: Danita

Hi Wray, haven't been on in a while but wanted to remind you that when I was having severe hair loss, I was making no progesterone at all. I believe its 3 now, not sure what its suppose to be but I guess from what I've heard about 10, is that true? Anyways, still don't feel completely normal but hair is growing back big time. I was put on Prometrium 100 mg and then monthly inj. and now I'm taking Prometrium 200 mg dly. Has been easier to live with but not totally myself, not as social as I used to be. Prometrium is an FDA approved compounded which makes me feel safer since cancer's big in my family and insurance covers it. If you have anymore advice let me know please. Thanks.

Apr 06, 2010
Help!
by: Anonymous

Thank you so much, I will stop the testosterone. Should I continue the Biest cream which I forgot to include... Biest 80-20 4mg. once daily? I am so hoping this is what is happening, I also am definitely going through some stress right now. My BHRT Doctor is so busy he doesn't have time to explain what might be happening. You are a God Send. I thank you! Kathy.

Apr 07, 2010
Progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Danita. It can't cause facial hair to grow, the opposite in fact. Facial hair and a deeper voice are both caused by testosterone, the male hormone. Progesterone is not a sex hormone, it has no bearing on the secondary sexual characteristics which develop in puberty. I had facial hair and within three months of using progesterone it had all dropped out. Progesterone suppresses excess androgens, hence it's effectiveness in facial hair in women. It does help with energy too, as it's thermogenic, meaning it speeds metabolism slightly. Finally it does increase libido as it stimulates the production of nitric oxide, much the same way Viagra works, but without the adverse side affects. Take care, Wray

Apr 07, 2010
Hair loss
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Wonderful news about the hair growing back, it should. You could consider taking the B vitamin inositol, often called the anti-alopecia vitamin, as it helps hair growth. N-acetyl cysteine is another nutrient you could consider, about 14% of our hair, nails and skin is cysteine, strengthening all of these considerably. It's also a powerful sulphur amino acid, and is often low in cancer. Prometrium is good, but I would consider the suppositories, as oral progesterone is mostly destroyed by the gut and liver, hence not feeling yourself still in spite of the good dose, please see these...
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
paper 4
Take care, Wray

Apr 07, 2010
Help!
by: Wray

Hi Kathy. Glad I was of some help. But now I'm concerned to hear you're using an oestrogen cream too! I really don't believe we need extra oestrogen, even in menopause we are still making it in our fat cells. It will also be countering the affect of progesterone. Oestrogen is mitogenic, it causes cells to divide and multiply, hence it's dangers in cancer, fibroids, cysts, endometriosis, all of these are oestrogen stimulated diseases. Besides we get more than enough, too much in fact, in our food, air, water and the skin care we all use, as they all contain oestrogen mimics, unless organic. Please see here. Take care, Wray

Apr 09, 2010
still confused...
by: JJ

I'm trying to figure out exactly where I fit into the cream usage pattern. I am peri-meno but not sure if I should use the cream daily as advised, as my periods aren't exactly eratic. They've been slightly out of kilter for a few months (I was always a 23 day cycle). Since Dec 09 they have been 25 days, 28, 18 and now 29 days with a no-show. Do I therefore fit into the 'use the cream every day' category? Thanks in advance :-)

Apr 09, 2010
Help!
by: Kathy

Now I am really really confused. The Doctor I have been seeing for over a year has been practising for many many years. Also my compounding pharmacist. They believe them as a system. I have upped my dose of progesterone as you suggested and I feel like my heart is racing way too fast. My hot flushes aren't as severe, but I just restarted doing 1 line of Biest. Woe is me, what to do.. I'm 61 and I want to be healthy and happy like last year. Hormones where amazing, life was great, now, what to do, who to believe?

Apr 11, 2010
still confused...
by: Wray

Hi JJ. You could use it daily, to me your cycles are sufficiently erratic, from 18 days to 29 days. But if you feel you can still follow it by all means do so. I just found it easier, as it should be used from ovulation for the last 14 days. So in your 18 day cycle you should have started it on day 4, but the day 29 cycle on day 16. Being in P-M you won't be ovulating each month either, so it's not critical to follow your cycle. If you were much younger using it beforehand it can act as a contraceptive. Take care, Wray

Apr 11, 2010
Help!
by: Wray

Hi Kathy. It can be confusing getting different opinions! I'm just amazed they gave you oestrogen as you had cancer. As I pointed out in my previous reply, oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply. Women are often given oestrogen blockers or even aromatase inhibitors which suppresses all oestrogen after they've had cancer. Instead they are giving you oestrogen! Please see these papers...
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
Paper 4
Paper 5
Paper 6
I don't believe any woman needs extra oestrogen or testosterone for that matter, as it too can be converted into oestrogen by the enzyme aromatase. Progesterone is an excellent aromatase inhibitor. Take care, Wray

Apr 12, 2010
hormones
by: Danita

Thanks Wray, I will ask about the Prometrium via suppository. I have again changed my dose to 200mg (was 100mg) and I've stopped the monthly injections of prog. I'm still taking the testosterone. I am going to get those suggested vitamins. Will that help the zoned out or flat affect I have, non-social feeling I have almost all the time. I've been a stay home mom, but want to go back to work but nervous about being around people daily. I've never been this way! Can you suggest anything? Maybe need to make some changes. I'm also taking Wellbuterin, was taking Zoloft but had no sex drive so changed. I did feel better when taking the Zoloft, just want one that doesn't cause decreased sex drive or weight gain. Please help!

Apr 14, 2010
hormones
by: Wray

Hi Danita. I'm sure you'll find it of far greater benefit. In fact, if the Prometrium you have is in caps, with an oil inside, you can use those as suppositories, the gel does dissolve once it's warmed up. I'm concerned you're using testosterone, as I told someone else on this page, I don't believe any woman needs more of this. It does suppress progesterone and the enzyme aromatase converts testosterone into oestrogen, thereby increasing your oestrogen level. Not what you need if you have cancer in the family. And the fact you're on AD's at the moment shows you need more than progesterone, certainly you don't need testosterone, as this suppresses what little you have.

I'm amazed they switched you from Zoloft to Wellbutrin, they have different functions. Zoloft prevents serotonin being destroyed, Wellbutrin prevents dopamine from being destroyed. Two very different neurotransmitters! If you felt better on the Zoloft you are obviously short of serotonin. The precursor amino acid is tryptophan. The precursor to dopamine is the amino tyrosine. Both these aminos are excellent for depression. Looking at your symptoms "zoned out, flat affect, non-social feeling" it could be you need both these aminos, please see here.

Finally with cancer in the family and you with depression, it strikes me you are deficient in vitamin D. A lack of this vitamin can lead to both cancer and depression. Please have a test done. Vitamin D is so vital to health, I can't stress this enough. In fact all of us should have a test done, as between up to 50% of us have a deficiency. Take care, Wray

Apr 14, 2010
Thanks
by: jj

Thanks again Wray :-)

Apr 14, 2010
progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray. I talked to my pharmacist about getting Prometrium in suppository form and he told me it doesn't come in a suppository. He did say over half of his prescribed to individuals are using suppositories anyway. Would 200mg be too much to use as suppository?

Apr 15, 2010
Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Danita. 200mg is not too high, it's a good amount to use. Have you considered using a progesterone cream? They are as effective as suppositories and have many advantages. The cream can be rubbed anywhere, excellent for aches and pains, for burns, dry vagina, on the face etc. Another advantage is the dose can be adjusted to suit. Please think about it! See here...
Page 1
Page 2
Take care, Wray

Apr 15, 2010
Hormones
by: Danita

Hi Wray. Thanks a lot for that info. Still need to know about the dosage being ok on Prometrium using it as suppository. If I stopped my testosterone and change back to Zoloft, my energy and libido will worsen. So, since I've seen that you mentioned that Viagra works for women, can Cialis work as well? Do you think these changes will help me? You really seem to know a lot about this. Thanks sooo much!

Apr 16, 2010
Hormones and antidepressants
by: Danita

Wray, thanks for your advice. I do have the gel tabs (Prometrium), still can use it as suppository, right? Also, can you recommend an antidepressant that wouldn't affect libibo and has the serotin I need since you said Wellbuterin doesn't, I knew it made me feel worse, just trying to fix the libido problem. Thanks again!

Apr 20, 2010
Hormones and antidepressants
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Sorry about the delay in replying, I have so many contributions and emails to answer I can't keep up! I'm answering the two you have just written in one. Firstly the dose of 200mg is fine if used as a suppository, excellent in fact. You'll find it far more affective too, and it should help the depression as it raises serotonin levels, but with none of the adverse side affects of the drugs. Please don't change back to the Zoloft! There are many natural anti-depressants you can take in place of the AD's, see here.

You'll find no adverse side affects from taking the natural AD's, unlike the drugs, not only that they are all vital to our health. When stressed our neurotransmitters drop, progesterone drops, the B vitamins drop and more. I can't remember ever saying Viagra works for women, I would never recommend it to men either! What I do say is progesterone works in the same way as Viagra, it stimulates the production of nitric oxide. This is vital for a healthy libido. Nitric oxide is a vasodilator, which means blood flows more easily. It also prevents platelets aggregating, meaning it prevents clots. Well progesterone is also a vasodilator and it also prevents platelets aggregating. It reduces thrombin by 10%, thrombin is a protein involved in clotting. You need to get your nutrient level up, your progesterone level up and then I think you'll start feeling a difference. Please have a vitamin D test done, a low level leads to depression, it also reduces the benefits of progesterone. Take care, Wray

Apr 20, 2010
progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray. Yes I have tried progesterone cream but wasn't getting levels up so she switched me to the gel tabs, the Prometrium 200 mg. I was thinking about using it as a suppository, is that ok to use as suppository also? I thought about stopping my testosterone, should I even though its low?

Apr 22, 2010
progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Danita. I would imagine the amount of progesterone in the cream was too low to have an affect. The amount has to be between 100-200mg/day to really work. Often the recommended dose is only 20-30mg/day, which is far too little. Yes it's best to use it as a suppository as you'll get the full amount of progesterone, the gel will dissolve, but best to use it at night. My only concern with using it only once a day, is that progesterone levels start dropping after 13 hours. See how you get on and think about using a cream in preference. And I don't believe any woman needs extra testosterone, low or not! Take care, Wray

Apr 24, 2010
Am I taking the right step?
by: Gina

First, I'll say I don't have insurance, and I don't have the money for a bunch of tests or dr's visits, unfortunately.

I am 27, and my past couple cycles, my PMS has gotten out of control. Also, although my cycle is 'normal', I've been having a LOT of breakthrough bleeding prior to my period actually beginning normally. I also had trouble in the fall with cysts bursting (could possibly be diagnosed with PCOS?). I was on a BC pill for about 6 years, but finally couldn't take the hormone changes. I haven't been on for a year and a half now, but have had various problems since then. I happened upon a website that talked about estrogen dominance and really feel I fit into that well! I got some supplements (DIM, milk thistle, taurine, and grapeseed), and have been using the progesterone cream now the past week.

Am I taking the right steps to help myself? I could get my period within the next couple weeks, which will also test whether my mood is stabilized at all. (Or at least that's what I'm hoping!)

Also, I'll note that the past 4 months, I've been taking D3 for other reasons, didn't know it helps with this too! So I have that in my daily routine as well.

Thanks for any advice you can give! It's been hard to know where to turn, and most women my age I talk to have no clue about estrogen dominance!

Apr 25, 2010
25 yr old using Progesterone Cream
by: Jenn

Hello, everyone! I've been reading through some of the comments on here, and they have been pretty helpful, but I thought I'd jump in to ask some more questions specific to my case. I am 25 yrs old and I was diagnosed with PCOS. I have had moderate to nodular acne since I was 13 years old (when I started my period) and have been on every treatment known to man. The most recent treatment that I took that worked only half the time was the BC pill, Yasmin. I stopped taking that about 10 months ago, and four months after my acne flared immensely.

For 5 months now I have been eating healthy (no refined/processed carbs or alcohol). For three months now I have been exercising (about an hour on a cardio machine at 140-150 heartbeats per min, about 5 times a week) and I just started using 20mg progesterone cream on days 12 until I start bleeding (which keeps coming earlier every month) for about 3 months now. So far, it has helped somewhat with the nodular acne, but now I get the moderately sized kind more frequently and on all areas of my face (not just neck, chin, and jaw).

My question is, should I continue to take the cream and hope that my hormones will eventually even out? I also recently started taking 50mg zinc, 1000mg cinnamon (to help with sugar metabolism), and 1000mg Omega 3 fish oil supplements. I also take vit D and eat carrots everyday. I have lost 10 lbs since starting my healthy eating routine, but I have noticed that weight loss has become more difficult since starting the cream. Am I doing the right things here?

Apr 26, 2010
Am I taking the right step?
by: Wray

Hi Gina. I prefer to work with symptoms, tests only show the level in our blood or saliva, not how we feel! I'm very relieved you're off the pill, you might like to
read why here.

The pill can cause havoc with the cycle after we've come off it. I've helped a number of women who had no period at all, spotting as you're having it, not ovulating, erratic cycles etc. You do need to use a larger amount than normal to prevent the bleeding prior to the actual period, about 200mg or more per day. One girl had to use 400mg to prevent it, so experiment with the amount till you find the optimum. The supplements you're taking are all good, DIM has a mild oestrogenic action, it binds to the oestrogen receptor sites, so preventing the more powerful oestrogens from working. To my mind not necessary if you're using progesterone. Milk thistle is excellent, an antioxidant, it helps stabilise blood glucose and aids the liver in detoxing, I take this daily. Taurine is a remarkable amino, it's role in the body too long to recount here, but one I recommend many, many times. I take 5000mg/day. For a brief list on what it does please see here.

By grapeseed I take it you mean resveratrol? It also has anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer properties. Like DIM it's a weak phytoestrogen, binding to oestrogen receptor sites. The only caution I can find is in people who have an oestrogen dependant cancer, the same caution applies to DIM. I'm very pleased you're taking vitamin D3, I hope enough! It should be 5000 IU's per day, although if your level is low 10,000 IU's would be better, then have another test a few months later. I know you say you don't have the money, but this is one test everyone should have on a yearly basis. For more information please see here. If you'd like to know more about PCO please see here. Take care, Wray

Apr 26, 2010
25 yr old using Progesterone Cream
by: Wray

Hi Jenn. You are doing the right things, particularly coming off the pill! You might like to read what it was doing to you. Please see here.

The pill suppresses all ovarian function, which means it suppresses oestrogen, testosterone and progesterone, this last is not a good thing. Excess testosterone causes acne, the reason teenage boys get it far worse than girls. So by suppressing the hormone which causes acne it tends to reduce it, if not eliminate it. Testosterone itself is stimulated by insulin, keep insulin levels down, testosterone normalises and no more acne. So the cinnamon is an excellent supplement to take, you can go up to 6000mg/day.The fish oil and the D3 too, I hope enough, 5000IU's minimum. Please have a test done, this is the most important nutrient above all others, about 50% of us are deficient in it. Please see here.

I suggest you increase the zinc to 100mg/day for a month or two, you should find this helps greatly. Then reduce slowly till you find the optimum amount. PCO is caused by oxidative stress, this leads to inflammation which upsets the ovaries. Another reason D3 is so essential, as it reverses inflammation. So do the amino acids N-acetyl cysteine and arginine, you need large amounts of these too, plus the B vitamin inositol, which helps lower insulin levels. The amount of progesterone you are using is the same amount we normally make in a monthly cycle, useless if there are problems, PCO is a problem! But not one that can't be healed, but you do need to use about 200mg/day, for more information on PCO please see here.

The reason you're finding the weight loss slowing up is oestrogen dominance, for more information please see here. Take care, Wray

Apr 26, 2010
Ordered Natpro
by: Rana

I have been reading questions/comments and Wray's responses to those. I am more informed now about hormone replacement for post menaupousal women and I am convinced that extra progesterone will help me, so I ordered a tube and I will share my experience with it on this page after I start using it.

Apr 27, 2010
Ordered Natpro
by: Wray

Hi Rana. Glad my comments helped you. Please read the web page we have on oestrogen dominance before using the cream, this can occur and is very disconcerting if it does! See here.

Please remember stress drops progesterone levels sharply, causing symptoms to come back. Use more cream over the stressful time. Take care, Wray

Apr 27, 2010
Trying more cream
by: Gina

Thanks for your advice! Your website has been SO informative! I have found other sites where women have complained about "side effects" of progesterone cream (but it's actually the effects of estrogen dominance!) and then stopped taking it because of it. :(

I am upping the amount of cream I use. I also wanted to ask - I started very light pink thin spotting a day or so ago. I have been taking the cream 7 days now (starting at my day 14, so now it's day 20). I'm unsure whether I should continue taking the cream for another week or whether this is actually my period. It's NOT how it usually starts (nor is it how my breakthrough bleeding usually is!). Please help!

Apr 29, 2010
Trying more cream
by: Wray

Hi Gina. Thanks for the kind words! And yes you are right, such a pity about the lack of info on oestrogen dominance, it would save a great deal of heartache if only it was explained to women about to start progesterone. I'm pleased you're going to increase the amount, but don't forget oestrogen dominance can kick in again! Please continue with the cream if it's only spotting. It's only when you have an obvious flow of blood should you stop it. Having said that, many women experience cramps during their period, in which case I recommend continuing it's use, rubbing it over the painful area. The pain is caused by prostaglandins, these cause the uterus to cramp, progesterone suppresses them. As you've increased the amount you use, the early spotting is caused by the progesterone, this can happen when starting it or when the amount is increased. It normally settles down in a cycle or two. You say you started the cream on day 14, do you have a 27 day cycle? The cream should be used after ovulation, for the last 14 days, ie 14 days before you bleed. For more information please see here.
Take care, Wray

Apr 29, 2010
Everyone woman needs to know about this blog
by: Kat

Hi Wray, I've increased my progesterone as per your suggestion and of course you were absolutely right!

My fogginess, weight gain, break-outs, sore breasts and so many more negative symptoms have disappeared completely. I truly can not thank you enough! You listen to us all and care about our symptoms and do not just look at our numbers from our test results. You do realize how rare that is?! I have been seeking assistance for my sypmtoms for 6 years and have gone to countless doctors... not one has helped like you have. I helped them by taking thousands of unnecessary tests and lining thier pockets. My life is back to normal and I wish I could give you a hug! Thank you... thank you... thank you!


Apr 29, 2010
progesterone cream
by: Danita

Hi Wray, I went to the Dr. today and she gave me a progesterone inj. 100mg to help me to feel better temporarily and after my next period, I'm suppose to start taking a larger dose of Prometrium (300mg). I've been having 2 periods a month so she said if this doesn't work, shes going to do an ultrasound an possibly a biopsy. I went over a year without having a period, then somewhat normal and now having two. What does this sound like to you? I also gave her this website because its so informative. Thanks so much for your help.

Apr 30, 2010
progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Thanks for spreading the word! It sounds to me as if you're in peri-menopause. But I can't remember how old you are, if you even gave me your age. P-M is the most difficult time with very erratic periods, please see here. If you are in P-M, no amount of progesterone is going to regulate your cycle. So it's far better to ignore it and use the Prometrium as a suppository daily, two would be better. If I'm right an ultrasound and biopsy are not needed, as everything is going according to nature, assuming you are in P-M. If she insists you take progesterone, it's no wonder she's given you 300mg, please see...

"Two progesterone presentations, a vaginal application of 90 mg progesterone per day (Crinone) or 300 mg progesterone administered orally (Utrogestan)... The fact that Crinone matches the efficacy of the larger doses of progesterone used orally reflects an advantage of the transvaginal route of administration which avoids the metabolic inactivation of progesterone during its first liver pass."

This is why I've asked you to use it as a suppository, and far better if she gives you 100mg twice a day, to keep the level up. Even better if you used a cream, the advantages are far greater as it can be used anywhere, plus the dose can be adjusted immediately to suit. I seem to remember you were concerned about using a cream because of cancer. I don't think you need have any concern as progesterone is progesterone, no matter what route is used to deliver it. The two following papers show it is well absorbed, see here. And here. Please take a look at a web page we have on progesterone and cancer. Take care, Wray

Apr 30, 2010
Everyone woman needs to know about this blog
by: Wray

Hi Kat. Well you've brought tears to my eyes, bless you, and thank you for your 'virtual' hug as I love hugs! Having been through hell and back myself several times too, I know what it's like, specially if you have no one to talk to who understands it. My particular hells were depression going through puberty, post natal depression which lasted 4 years, then finally peri-menopause hit...! And all I needed was a little help from progesterone. In fact I put my daughter on it at 14 because she was talking about feeling low on occasion. Nothing infuriates me more than to hear a woman has been told to 'pull yourself together, it's all in your mind'. Or to hear a woman in her 30's has been told she's too young to have hormonal problems. They can start at birth! The youngest 'woman' on record to start bleeding was 1 year old! She was born with breasts too, this often occurs in newborns, males too, but disappears about 3 months later, not with her. I also thank you for trusting me about increasing the dose, it really does help. Sometimes symptoms worsen, but they do go far quicker than the low dose route. Thank you! Take care, Wray

Apr 30, 2010
A few more questions...
by: Jenn

Hi Wray! Thank you so much for your previous response. That was very helpful. I do have a few more questions:

1) When I am using progesterone cream (20-40mg a day) my skin gets slightly better, but when I stop taking it during the month, my acne flares up horribly. Is this due to not taking enough?

2) I heard that progesterone cream (with PCOS patients) is supposed to supplement your body until you can produce your own progesterone. If I increase to the amount you recommend (100-200mg a day), will it prevent my body from creating its own progesterone? Then if I take that amount for a while, how will I know when to start tappering off to let my body do its job, or do I have to stay on cream for the rest of my life?

3) If I start taking the higher amount, will I stop having such bad acne flares on the break from the cream during the month?

Thank you so much for your input!

May 02, 2010
A few more questions...
by: Wray

Hi Jenn. I'll answer your questions as you have them down.

1) Yes, you are not using enough. As I said 20-40mg is the amount we normally make in a month, useless if a problem is present!

2) Increasing the amount to 100-200mg/day will not prevent you making your own progesterone, unless you use it before ovulation. If used before, it can act as a contraceptive by stopping ovarian function. But unlike the Pill it has no adverse side affects, only good! So it must be used from ovulation for the last 14 days of your cycle. For more info on our cycles please see here.

You don't have to stay on the cream for life, although it is so beneficial for so many other things! Once the acne has cleared (by reducing insulin levels with diet and supplements!), once you are ovulating regularly each month, bleeding regularly, and a scan shows no more cysts on the ovaries, you can start reducing.

3) Possibly, but acne really must be controlled with diet and supplements. It's imperative to reduce insulin levels, this increases both testosterone and IGF-1, both these stimulate the sebaceous glands excessively. One thing you could try, which others have found helpful, is using the progesterone daily for about 3 months. This will disrupt your period, but it will help the outbreaks and give your ovaries a rest too. It's easy enough to regulate the cycle again using the progesterone.

The most important thing to do for PCO is reduce the inflammation that causes it. Although progesterone is an excellent anti inflammatory, it's not sufficient. You do need vitamin D, cysteine, argnine, and a number of other powerful antioxidants. I have recently formulated a complex for PCO which is working for 4 girls who have tried it. I would be happy to send you some, if you're interested please contact me here. Take care, Wray

May 02, 2010
progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray, I did talk to you about taking the compounded cream progesterone, but didn't have good results, couldn't get my levels up and adjusted constantly. My progesterone levels were 0. My symptoms begin when I was 39 yrs old with severe insomnia and kept worsening. The symptoms that bother me the most now are inability to concentrate, depressed and antisocial feeling, breast tenderness at times and anxiety.

I had already started taking the Zoloft before I got your comment back saying not to. I also ordered trytophan but haven't started taking it yet. Anyway, I'm 45 yrs old now. She gave me Prometrium 300mg to start after my next period. I was taking 200mg until I got the 100mg injection, now taking 100mg til start period, then after period go to 300mg. Still decreased libido. My Dr. is afraid she may mask something or overlook it with focusing on hormones so much. I had one ovary removed last year.

May 03, 2010
Progesterone treatment for Fibrocystic breasts
by: Wray

Hi Danita. I remember you saying you had tried the cream, but my concern was the amount of progesterone in many creams, plus the dose recommended, would have been far too low to make a difference. Most recommend 20-40mg/day, you need about 200mg/day. Taking 300mg/day oral progesterone means you will be getting about 60mg/day, as about 80% is destroyed in the gut and liver. Please see here. And here.

Oral progesterone also puts a strain on the liver as it has to metabolise it. Hence my suggestion you used the caps as suppositories/pessaries. All your symptoms point to low a progesterone level, too high an oestrogen level, so I don't think focussing on hormones is incorrect. Removing an ovary would also affect hormone levels. The breast tenderness can be resolved quite easily by rubbing a progesterone cream directly on to your breasts, difficult when using an oral progesterone! Are you aware Zoloft causes anxiety, insomnia and decreased libido? Please see here. Please see our web page on anxiety. And please have a vitamin D test done, a lack of this also causes depression and anxiety. Plus a low level reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more information please see here. Take care, Wray

May 06, 2010
progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray. I do take Vitamin D as prescribed by my GYN. She said my levels were better. About the Prometrium, do you think I should take 100 mg in am orally and 200mg suppository at night? Do you think that would level me out more? I will try to gradually get off Zoloft. I have quit my testosterone cream. I also bought some L-tryptophan and Inositol & Choline to take, haven't started it yet. Thanks so much for your help!

May 07, 2010
progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Danita. I would be interested to hear what 'better' means! The standard range is between 30-70ng/ml, and yet new research is indicating it should be 50-100ng/ml, but if possible between 90-100ng/ml. Please find out. I really don't think you should bother with taking the progesterone, just a waste, as it's not doing much and straining the liver unnecessarily too. So pleased you read the web page on how to come off AD's, it's far gentler to the body to give it help as you do. Let me know how you get on. Pleased you've quit the testosterone! Take care, Wray

May 10, 2010
PCOS
by: Fi

Hi Wray, sorry to pester you again! However, I really value your expertise. I was given a clinical diagnosis of PCOS at the age of 26 scan and blood tests revealed PCOS. In my late 30's I was advised by doctors that there was no evidence of this condition. Now I am in my late forties as I mentioned. My feelings are that PCOS cannot really be determined by scans on their own. PCOS is an endocrine disorder. I have always kept my weight within acceptable range or below. Please could you tell me are these doctors correct when they mention than PCOS can be cured/eradicated?

I am not convinced and feel that symptoms can be controlled. I thank you for your help! Sorry I realise that this is not relevant to progesterone. I found the information on PCOS extremely helpful, and wish that I had discovered this years ago! Kind regards.

May 11, 2010
Please help
by: Danita

Hi Wray, wanted to remind you that Im 45 years old. I have been doing the Prometrium 200 mg as suppository. Also, I'm down to taking 50 mg of Zoloft every 2-3 days trying to stop them, not taking testosterone and continuing vit.D. I do take Trazodone to sleep and have been taking that for about 9 months which does help me sleep but doesn't help me stay asleep well. Sometimes I have to take a low dose Xanax with it to get sound rest. Also been prescribed that for months but only use it when necessary. I started the increased dose of Prometrium almost 2 weeks ago. I am starting to feel less antisocial and seem to not have the fogginess and decreased ability to concentrate, so that seems better. Now for about the last 3 or 4 days I have had such a dry mouth that it causes me to not breath deep because I'm always trying to make more saliva by sucking on the side of my mouth so bad that I'm constantly having to use things on my lips and feel like I need a lubricant for my mouth, it causes me anxiety making it unmanagable for me or intolerable and I've started having severe night sweats. All the other symptoms are better, just wondered what might be causing this. I plan to start my tryptophan tonight at bedtime. Any advice, I would appreciate it!

May 12, 2010
PCOS and progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Fi. I don't mind how many times you pester me! PCOS is an endocrine disorder, but only in as much as the ovaries have been damaged by oxidative stress. This creates turmoil within them and the feedback loop to the hypothalamus and pituitary. The wrong message is getting through, which sends the wrong message back to the ovaries, so a vicious cycle ensues.

PCO is normally found through both a scan of the ovaries which reveal multiple cysts, and checking hormone levels. Invariably LH is high, as the pituitary is trying to stimulate ovulation. Progesterone is often not checked for, and yet that is often low, as anovulation is extremely common in PCO. Antioxidants are low of course, but never checked for, the most important being vitamin D which is low, and never checked for! Insulin resistance occurs in many, but it has been found that the ovaries do still respond to high insulin, which in turn causes LH and the androgens to rise. Insulin is of course a hormone, and a higher than normal level is often not checked for. But insulin only rises if glucose levels are too high, this rises in response to excess glucose in the diet, chiefly from grains, legumes and sugar itself.

So yes it is a hormonal problem, but originates with oxidative stress. Can it be cured? Well the medical profession use glucophage to reduce glucose levels, which does help, but not cure the problem as it doesn't reverse the oxidative stress. This must be reversed before it's cured. The most oxidising food is sugar in any form. Pollution causes oxidation, a lack of vitamin D causes it, a lack of antioxidants in the diet causes it. Stress causes it too, another feedback loop. Although excess weight can play a part, it's usually a result rather than a cause. So yes I believe it can be reversed, but only with antioxidants, plus progesterone of course! Take care, Wray

May 12, 2010
Please help
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Trazadone can cause dry mouth, but so can excess oestrogen. What I believe has occurred, by increasing the progesterone, the oestrogen receptors have been activated again. In other words you are suffering from oestrogen dominance symptoms, particularly as you say you are having night sweats. You could reduce the progesterone slightly which should help, and then increase it at a slower rate. Or just hang in there, as it will pass. It seems a pity to reduce it, when it's helping already. Glad you're going to try the tryp, please consider taking inositol too, to help you sleep. It won't affect the tryp if taken together at night. And I hope you're taking enough vit D, 5000iu's per day minimum. Take care, Wray

May 14, 2010
Many thanks!
by: Fi

Hi Wray, many thanks for your in depth and helpful reply, this makes so much sense;- good nutrition is key, plus progesterone;- progesterone levels never seem to be that important to some doctors, but they are. Just wish I had this information 20 years ago - if only! I'll print this out! Kind regards.

May 16, 2010
Bleeding and HRT
by: Angela

Hi Wray. I am 53, started on a very small HRT dose 2 years ago because of terrible hot flashes although had only skipped one period at that time (at the time, .25 Vivelle patch and 50 mg oral progesterone, but switched to compounded cream). Felt good, went about 4 months and then had a few periods, stopped bleeding again for 6 more months, then upped the estrogen dose when hot flashes came back (to .5 Vivelle patch).

A few months after that I started having light periods every 14 days or so. I went up to 100mg progesterone cream, which regulated the bleeding to a period every 32 days or so, but it came with terrible PMS and mild cramps, which I haven't had in years. I keep adjusting the HRT dose but without luck (went up to 150mg progesterone but still had periods and PMS). Just quit HRT altogether, felt horrible (hot flashes came right back), and so I went back on! Have to have a biopsy next week (an ultrasound showed an 8mm endometrial lining and a small fibroid). This is all so confusing. I don't even know if I'm in menopause yet because of the bleeding and PMS, or if that's from the HRT. What do you make of all this? Do I need to stop taking even the small estrogen dose? Would that help stop the bleeding and PMS? Many thanks!

May 17, 2010
Forgot to say...
by: Angela

Hi Wray. Forgot to say that my HRT regimen is continual, and yet I still spot every 14 days on lower dose progesterone (under 100mg) or have light periods with PMS/cramps about every 30-32 days when I use 100mg or more of the compounded progesterone (at which point I go off all HRT because I think my body is telling me it needs to have a period). On the lower progesterone dose, when I spot, I have no cramps (mild PMS). I don't understand why I was able to go 6 months or more with no bleeding on HRT, and then suddenly that changed (never heavy bleeding, but regular spotting, cramps, PMS). I don't know what's happening to me! Thank you for any advice you can offer. This site is fantastic.

May 18, 2010
Many thanks!
by: Wray

Hi Fi. Glad it was of help! Take care Wray

May 18, 2010
Bleeding and HRT
by: Wray

Hi Angela. It doesn't surprise me your endometrial lining is 8mm thick, oestrogen and only oestrogen can stimulate this to grow! It also stimulates fibroids too, please see here. You might like to read what the HRT is doing to you here. Staying on the HRT will cause you to have periods forever, so please quit again! But to do so gently it's best to decrease the dose slowly, difficult when using a patch, so you could ask for an oestrogen gel. At the same time please use progesterone, I would say at least 100mg/day, if not 200mg/day over this phase. For more info please see here. The cramps are caused by prostaglandins, these also cause the uterine cramps during childbirth. Progesterone suppresses prostaglandins, which is why we don't have contractions during pregnancy. So rub the cream over the painful area next time, it should help. Take care, Wray

May 18, 2010
Forgot to say...
by: Wray

Hi Angela. It's the drop in the progesterone level which is causing you to bleed when you stop the progesterone. Better still if you didn't take the HRT as all that's doing is building your lining up. So the bleeding is a good thing, as it's clearing the uterus out. But evidently not enough if your lining has reached 8mm thick. So please consider stopping the HRT completely and just use the progesterone. It's difficult to say if you will continue to have periods at this stage, as the oestrogen/progesterone combo is causing them. You will certainly have one or two more once on progesterone only, but it could be you've reached menopause. You'll only know once off the HRT. Thanks for the kind words! Take care, Wray

May 18, 2010
Confusion
by: Danita

Hi Wray, I hate to keep bothering you but Im confused about what to do. Ok I had the progesterone 100 mg inj. about 3 wks ago while continuing to take Prometrium 100 mg supp., remember I was having 2 periods a month (starting around the 8th of the month or earlier). I started taking 200 mg around the 6st of this month. I was feeling better but now I'm not and I'm noticing my hair coming out again pretty bad. I went back to taking Prometrium 100 mg because of the hot flashes like you had said to do. I still haven't had a period this month either. I stopped taking the Zoloft and am taking the tryptophan and inositol and choline at night. I stopped the testosterone about a month ago. I've never really had hot flashes until now and its mostly at night. Just irritable and decreased concentration again. Have had increased sex drive which is good. Haven't had breast tenderness like I was either. I've been a little nauseated. Thanks so much for everything!

May 18, 2010
Bleeding and HRT
by: Angela

Thank you very much Wray. I find all of this kind of confusing. Very often, things you read tell you that it's progesterone that makes you bleed (although I'm aware that it's generally when progesterone drops that you bleed). Any site that describes estrogen therapy will say that adding progestin might make you bleed (and birth control pills that are mostly progestins always warn of break-through bleeding). And it seems to me that the more progesterone cream I apply, the more prone I am to cramps when the bleeding comes (although it comes less often than on lower doses. The higher progesterone dose does regulate the bleeding but doesn't stop it). I suppose I'm still in peri-menopause, and perhaps my body still wants to bleed. But what to do about the severe hot flashes that come when I go off estrogen? I've read no solid evidence that progesterone alone can get rid of them (and soy products do not work on me). Will progesterone alone stop the bleeding? Will it stop the hot flashes? Thank you again for your help! Angela.

May 19, 2010
Confusion
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Going up to the 200mg suppository would have activated the oestrogen receptors again! So now oestrogen is the dominant hormone. This is the problem with suppositories/injections, you can't adjust the dose to suit, it's all or nothing! If you used the cream you could have increased the amount slowly, which would not have caused the problem you now have. I know you said you found the creams don't work, but you weren't using the 100-200mg/day you are using now. You say you went back to 'taking' the Prometrium, 'take' to me means oral, which is not a good thing as most is destroyed by the gut and liver. I do hope you meant 'use' in this instance. The increased libido is due to the increased progesterone you used, progesterone works in so many areas of the body, it's difficult to keep track. In fact we have many men using the cream to increase their libido. The lack of breast tenderness is also due to progesterone, but the nausea is caused by the oestrogen. So if you feel better on a higher amount, but have those few adverse symptoms, it means working through them until they go, ie staying on the 200mg suppository. Take care, Wray

May 19, 2010
Bleeding and HRT
by: Wray

Hi Angela. It is confusing! But I'll explain exactly what makes us bleed. Matrix metalloproteinases (MMP?s) are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle. If they are over active, as would be the case with an excess of oestrogen in the body, (oestrogen stimulates it?s production), the result is a pathological reaction such as inflammation. This can lead to both rheumatoid and osteo-arthritis, cirrhosis, cancer and excessive bleeding in the uterus.

Progesterone suppresses matrix metalloproteinases. MMP's are always high in all the inflammatory diseases mentioned above, so incidentally is oestrogen. It's at the end of our cycle when progesterone levels drop that the MMP's get to work, as they are no longer being suppressed. What often happens with women, they are making/taking too much oestrogen, but are not ovulating, so therefore they are not making enough progesterone to suppress the oestrogen, so the lining continues to build up. But more importantly, with little progesterone to suppress the MMP's, bleeding can be continual, and in some instances very heavy indeed. The only way to stop very heavy, continual bleeding which is abnormal, is to use up to 600mg/day progesterone, and to use it hourly too, this does work. Please see here. And here.

The only reason the cramps get worse when you increase the progesterone is the initial activating of the oestrogen receptors, this occurs every time it's increased. And it will only stop once progesterone is dominant, which it is of course in pregnancy. Progesterone does get rid of hot flushes/night sweats in as little as 4 days if 400mg/day is used, a high amount but it works. Once they've gone the amount can be reduced. Soy of any kind, unless fermented, should not be used. It slows the thyroid, and in men can reduce sperm. Soy is also a mild oestrogen. So if you do want to come off the HRT, please use about 200mg/day progesterone, and reduce the HRT gradually as outlined in the link I gave you. Hope this helps! Take care, Wray

May 22, 2010
Bleeding and HRT
by: Angela

Thanks Wray for your help. This has been very informative. I don't know that I could withstand 400mg of progesterone, I think I'd be asleep most of the day! But I have another question for you: if I am in fact in menopause, as you think I might be, then why would I still be getting PMS, and why would it come on in cycles? Starting about one week before the period comes there's a day when I can hardly get out of bed, it's like being under water. Then that week I just feel like everything's a blur, and I have great difficulty sleeping (and I crave carbs at night! And chocolate!. And then, voila, the period comes exactly one week later. By the way, my mother didn't hit menopause until 55, and my elder sister had a hysterectomy at that age when she wouldn't stop bleeding (and she wasn't on HRT). I'm 53. So I'm not convinced about being in menopause just yet. But I'm curious about what causes PMS, if the bleeding I'm experiencing is being brought on by my estrogen patch (which is only .25, the lowest there is. They say that dose does very little except prevent osteoporosis).

May 25, 2010
Bleeding and HRT
by: Wray

Hi Angela. The 400mg/day would only be for about 4 days, and it sounds like you could do with some sleep after all you're going through! I'm not sure you're in menopause, we'll only know that if you come off the patch. You use the patch in cycles don't you, or do you have it on daily? And the progesterone too? But you still have periods, so you still have a cycle albeit erratic ones on occasion, which wouldn't surprise me if you're on the patch daily. About a week before our period oestrogen is peaking again. You are no longer ovulating and therefore not making progesterone, so the surge in oestrogen would make you feel like being under water, as you are getting more via the patch too!

Oestrogen does make us crave carbs, as it upsets blood glucose, a drop in progesterone or a low level would not help. As progesterone does stabilise blood glucose. If your mother only reached menopause at 55 it often follows daughters do too. Pity about your sister and the hyst, as progesterone can stop heavy bleeding. I would ask you to try coming off the patch, using a high amount of progesterone too, at least 200mg/day. I would follow your cycle if you do go for this., ie use the cream 14 days before you bleed. I'm sure it's the extra oestrogen you're getting from the patch which is upsetting things. I only hope this helps, as I said I'm convinced the oestrogen you're getting is upsetting things. Take care, Wray

May 25, 2010
Normal or not normal
by: Kat

Hi Wray, hope all is well with you. I've been taking the increased dosage of progesterone for approximately 2 months now. The majority of my symptoms have gone but now I have new symptoms. I am 42 and haven't had a period in two months. I am symptomatic but nothing happens. I've also noticed that my breasts have (hard to explain) lost breast tissue? Meaning they aren't full and feel like something is missing it's weird like they've deflated but I am still same cup size. Any ideas or thoughts? For reference, my mother went through menopause when she was 55. I also had a leap procedure and D&C two years ago for excessive bleeding and irregular cells. The excessive bleeding stopped. I wasn't taking enough progesterone and was oestrogen dominant for awhile. Not sure what to do at this point. Hoping you can help. Thank you!

May 27, 2010
Normal or not normal
by: Wray

Hi Kat. Good to hear from you again, and delighted to hear most of your symptoms have gone. Please confirm you are using the cream following your cycle? But when you stop using it you don't get a period? If this is the case it could be the amount you're using is now higher than you need and it's suppressing bleeding. It's a fine line between bleeding too much and not bleeding at all!

Just to explain what happens in the uterus... matrix metalloproteinases (MMP?s) are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle. If they are over active, as would be the case with an excess of oestrogen in the body, (oestrogen stimulates it?s production), the result is a pathological reaction such as inflammation. This can lead to both rheumatoid and osteo-arthritis, cirrhosis, cancer and excessive bleeding in the uterus. And the heavy bleeding is exactly what happened previously to you. Progesterone suppresses matrix metalloproteinases. Please see here. And here. And here. The 'missing' element in your breasts is probably water, as excess oestrogen causes water to be retained. It also causes an increase in fat cells, which partly make up breast tissue. Although you say you are still the same cup size, it sounds more to me like water loss. I would hope it stabilises once you've been on the progesterone long enough. Take care, Wray

May 27, 2010
Amount of progesterone in 1/4 tsp Natpro
by: Rana

Please let me know how much progesterone there is in 1/4 tsp Natpro.

My other question is: I started Natpro about a month ago, I use about 1/4 tsp on my inner arms. Whenever I use it I get abdominal pain. Could you explain the reason for the pain. I am a 61 year old post menapousal woman. Thanks.

May 28, 2010
Amount of progesterone in 1/4 tsp Natpro
by: Wray

Hi Rana. There is about 41mg progesterone in a 1/4tsp. The pain in the abdomen is caused by prostaglandins, the same prostaglandins that cause cramping during periods and the uterus to contract in childbirth. The reason these are quiescent in pregnancy is the high level of progesterone we make. The reason for the monthly cramps is the drop in progesterone just before bleeding, making oestrogen the dominant hormone. Oestrogen is an excitatory hormone causing inflammation, it also stimulates the prostaglandins, progesterone is calming and is an anti inflammatory. By using only 41mg of progesterone per day you will keep stimulating the oestrogen receptor sites, making it impossible for progesterone to become dominant. I suggest you try between 100-200mg/day, but before you do please see here. It's essential to use it a minimum of twice a day, as this keeps levels up. And please don't just rub it on the inner arms, the skin comprises 95% kerotinocytes. These have plentiful progesterone receptor sites, even the hair follicles absorb progesterone well. Try rubbing the cream all over your stomach area, it should help. Take care, Wray

Jun 01, 2010
Endo and Progesterone
by: M-girl

Hi Wray, I've read through most of the postings and have learned so much about progesterone and how it's utilized by the body. Thank you for your informative website.

I'm 42, have stage 4 endometriosis, hypothyroid (taking 0.1micrograms of levothyroxin/day) and am struggling to find an effective way to manage my endo. A few years ago, I had exploratory surgery for something related to my uterus and they found the stage 4 endo involving adhesions and very active tissue. They also found and removed a uterine fibroid tumour. The doctor lasered much of the inactive tissue and adehesions. I have had the endo flaring up on and off ever since and for years, I now know. I seem to have several conditions (fibroid, endo + thyroid) involving estrogen dominance - is this right?

My gyno recently put me on oral Progesterone from days 14-28 to try to manage the endo but I had the heaviest and most painful periods of my life the 2 months I was taking it. I have always had horribly heavy and painful periods, but this was even worse.

I'm now on the BCP (Trycyclen Lo) to try to alleviate these symptoms. I don't like being on the BCP and would like to switch to Progesterone cream. So, my questions are:

-Should I take a break between stopping the BCP and starting Progesterone cream? I have one month's supply left of BCP but am not wanting to take it but may have to in order to get through my next cycle.
-What dosage would you recommend I begin using the cream at given my conditions?
- Will the cream help the heaviness and pain of my periods?

I'm glad I've read about the initial estrogen response when starting the cream as those side effects would have been a major concern! Could that have been what happened with the oral Progesterone?

Sorry for the lengthy post! Many Thanks in advance.

Jun 04, 2010
Endo and Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi M-girl. Thanks for the kind words. Although the oral route is not the best delivery system as most is destroyed by the gut and liver, some does get through. So you are right about the oestrogen response with the oral progesterone. I'm delighted you read that in fact, as it takes many women, men too, by surprise. One paper in fact refers to is as a paradox, this initial stimulation by progesterone, followed by a calming down. Which is why you had such painful and heavy periods, particularly as the amount you were getting was too low. The pain is caused by prostaglandins, the same prostaglandins which cause the uterus to contract when we give birth. You might like to see the web page on endo here. And fibroids here.

If you do try the cream, it's best to start it concurrently with the BCP as it will lessen the symptoms you might have in stopping it abruptly. I can't tell if it will help you, but I can tell you it has helped others. Most recently one woman with pain 24 hrs a day, who was booked to have a hyst, since cancelled, who now has no pain. But I suggested a very high amount initially, I'll give the protocol I suggested to her below...

  • Tsp Days mg Tubes
  • 3 4 500mg/day 1
  • 2 6 330mg/day 1
  • 11/2 8 250mg/day 1
  • 11/2 8 250mg/day 1
  • Total 26 4

I asked her to use it daily, right through her period too, and then to stay on the 250mg/day until she felt stable enough to start reducing it very slowly. In all it would take about 3 months, maybe longer, it's very difficult to tell how each of us responds. Once the optimum level is found, you can then follow your cycle again. You also need to take high dose anti inflammatory nutrients, 1600mg/day arginine, 1800mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, 2000mg/day taurine and most important 5000iu's/day vitamin D. In fact please have a vitamin D test done, up to 50% of us are deficient. A lack of vitamin D also leads to hypothyroidism, I wouldn't be surprised to learn there is nothing wrong with your thyroid except a lack of vitamin D. Interestingly a lack of vitamin D also reduces the benefits of progesterone. Take care, Wray

Jun 08, 2010
Arginine side effect
by: M-girl

Thanks, Wray. I've actually stopped taking the BCP now and am waiting for the cream to start using it. I really couldn't take the side effects from the BCP any longer.

I just wanted to mention that I have, in the past, taken arginine as a supplement and ended up with a cold sore break out (which I rarely have). I traced it back to the arginine because, apparently, if it gets out of balance with lysine it can cause herpes break outs! I only wished they had mentioned that on the supplement label that contained it. Anyway, just an fyi and I'm a bit afraid to take it now for fear of a break out.

I will let you know how I make out with the cream, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be what finally helps me out!




Jun 18, 2010
Confused in the UK
by: Hazel

Hi! So glad to find this page and wanted to chip in. I'm 49 (50 in Dec) and have been using TDP (Serenity creme 2.34%) after finding Dr Lee's book roughly 2 years ago. I apply a pea size blob from when I see the 'sticky plug' that I assume is ovulation for 14 days or until my period starts. I call them regular - between 22, 23, 24, 26 days. Recently, I had an ectocervical polyp removed and since my uterus felt 'bulky', they sent me for a TV ultrasound. It showed a 'small' fibroid and bilateral cysts on my ovaries. I was confused since the TDP is meant to protect me from this. I thought I was using too much creme but it seems I should be using more. Am I right? FYI, my GP did some bloods when I went to her 2 years ago, said they were fine and told me to live with it. (My hair was falling out). My research led me to TDP which helped with the depression, but not my thin hair, alas. :) You are the only person I've found who has any interest in helping, and who is familiar with TDP. God bless you!

Jun 20, 2010
Arginine side effect
by: Wray

Hi M-girl Well I'm pleased you've stopped the BCP! The arginine can cause an outbreak, but it's such a vital amino, it's worth taking. But take the same amount, if not double, of lysine. But see how you get on with the cream first. The other antioxidants I mentioned will help even if you avoid the arginine. But please, please have a vitamin D test done. To date there is not one person I've asked to have a test done who's had a normal level. Mine was very low so I'm now busy supplementing. We all spend too long indoors and not enough time in the sun. Vitamin D is the most powerful anti-proliferative natural substance there is. And there's no question cells proliferate in endo. It's also a powerful anti inflammatory, and there is huge inflammation in endo. Please! Take care Wray

Jul 03, 2010
How much progesterone cream to start?
by: Dionne

Hello,

I am 40, black female and I have lived in South Florida all my life. At the age of 38 I notice thinning hair at the top and crown areas. My menstrual cycles are normal, every month with minimal discomfort however, sometimes I get migraines before and after my cycle.

I have fibroids that are large and have gained weight that I cannot seem to lose unless I eat salad every day. I used to have a flat stomach until 37 years of age.

I am concerned about the hair loss, weight gain and fibroids as they are increasing in size.

I have never used progesterone cream. I saw a warning on a bottle of Progesterone Cream, "California Proposition 65 Warning: This product contains progesterone, a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer." I found this alarming. Do you know anything about this?

My question is how much progesterone cream to start with based on my symptoms?

Jul 05, 2010
Ready to stop everything!
by: Amira

About 4 months ago I went to a bodylogicmd doctor and hree are what I have been given to take;

EPA-DHA 720 twice a day
Alpha Base vitamins without Iron 4 a day
Free Amoinos 4 aday
progesterone 20mg/ml 1ml a day
testosterone 1mg/ml 1ml a day

I also take t4-75mcg once a day

I stopped taking the Tesosterone after reading your blog, but I am gaining weight like crazy. I feel bloated, and nothing fits me and getting wrose by day.

I am sleeping better and have better energy than before starting this. I work out three to four times a week but nothing stopping the weight gain.

I am not getting answers from them really, she wants to go lower in Progestrone, and when I left a message about not taking Testosterone, she never called me back. I paid out of pocket for this doctor and all the test including syliva test, and was hoping for a better service.

Anyway, anything you can give me would be more than appreciated please...

I am 45, female, and went to her because I was a total mess. Not sleeping, not remembering, tired, you name it and I had it.

Thanks for your help.


Jul 06, 2010
How much progesterone cream to start?
by: Wray

Hi Dionne Fibroids, migraines, hair loss and weight gain all point to excess oestrogen. We do have a web page on Fibroids. Please have a look at it, there are plenty of papers confirming oestrogen stimulates fibroid growth. The weight gain sounds like you could have insulin resistance, particularly as you say you cannot loose it. Please have a look at our web page on Insulin Resistance. Oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, it's also a pro-inflammatory hormone, hence the migraines. Progesterone suppresses excess oestrogen, it's also an anti-inflammatory, helpful with migraines. Please see here and here. With little progesterone in your system oestrogen and testosterone will increase, testosterone causes male pattern baldness in women. So everything points to a lack of progesterone. I do know the warning California has, unfortunate, as it doesn't cause cancer, in fact it's used successfully to treat cancer in many cases. If it did cause it every pregnant woman would get it, as we make over 400ng/ml per day in the third trimester of pregnancy! You might like to read the web page we have on Cancer and progesterone. I generally recommend between 100-200mg/day, but it's dependant on symptoms. The more severe the more progesterone is needed. It's a question of experimenting until you find the optimum dose, better to start off high to resolve the symptoms quickly. But before you try it please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance first, this can occur and is most disconcerting if it does. Take care Wray

Jul 08, 2010
Ready to stop everything!
by: Wray

Hi Amira Any lower on the progesterone, which is already too low, will not help at all. The amount should be between 100-200mg/day, dependant on symptoms. 20mg is merely stimulating the oestrogen receptor sites, hence the weight gain. Oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells. It also causes water retention, hence the bloating. I'm relieved you've stopped the testosterone, there is really no need for extra. You are now in P-M which is an extremely difficult time, please see our web page on Peri-menopause. You could also have insulin resistance too, this often develops during P-M, for more info please see our page on Insulin Resistance. The EPA-DHA is good, there seem to be many alpha base vitamins, not knowing which one you're taking I can't comment, the same with the aminos. As you seem to be struggling with your symptoms, many of which appear to be related to excess oestrogen and a lack of progesterone, I suggest you increase the amount you're using to 200mg/day. But before you do please read this web page we have on Oestrogen Dominance. Take care Wray

Jul 09, 2010
hormones
by: Danita

Hi Wray, haven't been here in awhile. Just to remind you, Im still taking prometrium 200mg supp., tryptophan & inositol, Vit D 50,000 mg wkly. In the beginning I was taking 100 mg prometrium supp (actually tried many things before that), but at that time was having 2 periods a month, still had nervousness, hair loss and was very antisocial or I guess had a social phobia. Once changed to the 200mg prometrium, not having the phobia as bad, nervousness is a little better but have totally stopped having periods for over 3 months. My dr. recommended I stop taking my prometrium 200mg for 4 days each month but when I did that I started noticing a change in my hair and anxiety again, still no period. The only other symptom I notice even without stopping my prometrium is I don't feel affectionate, sort of distant but no phobia feeling, also in the beginning I had increased libido and could follow through, if you know what I mean, now I can't anymore, can you tell me what's happened? I do have more energy and don't feel as depressed as I did in the beginning before the change in meds. I just use to feel more playful & affectionate toward my family, plz help?

Jul 09, 2010
Thanks.
by: Amira

Dear Wray, Thank you so much for your help here. I do have a question: do you think anything I am taking here causes my liver enzymes to go up? I had a blood work and my primary care is very concerned with high 100s numbers of my ALT and AST and asking me to stop everything I am taking. I only take what I listed for you and that is it. I have an ultrasound and CT scheduled now for next week to check out my liver. I know that is lot to ask you without knowing the whole picture but the only thing that has changed in my life is these meds and vitamin since my last Blood test a couple of months ago. Numbers were in 20s then.

Also, I am not sure how many pumps equals to amount you are suggesting for Progesterone, could you clarify? Thanks a million.

Jul 09, 2010
cyclogest
by: sara

Hi Wray, maybe you can help? My gynae just prescribed me Cyclogest 200mg pessaries, (which I assume is very similar to using the cream but much cheaper for me!), I should start them in a couple of days, I just wondered why he said only use them for 14 days (with no specific start day), when I use the cream for 25 days with a 5 day break as my cycle is impossible to predict nowadays. Should I use the Cyclogest the same as the cream?

Jul 10, 2010
hormones
by: Wray

Hi Danita Good to hear from you again. I'm so pleased you're taking those supps, instead of the Zoloft. I remember you changing to the 200mg at the beginning of May, this means you've only been using the higher amount for 2 months. It does take 3-6 months for progesterone to really benefit us. It plays so many roles, it's impossible for us to know what else is occurring in the healing process, other than those which affect us physically or mentally. Don't forget you were using too little initially, you were also on those drugs too. These have to leave the system which takes time. I don't believe you should have a break, certainly not yet, particularly as you get anxiety when you do. I wouldn't be concerned about not having a period, especially after having had 2 a month. The high amount of progesterone you are using is suppressing ovarian function, ie you're not making much oestrogen. Certainly not enough to build up a lining, a good thing as your uterus needs a break! So good things are happening, please just give it time for the other concerns you have to come right too. Incidentally a study has found progesterone does help bonding and affection, please see here Take care Wray

Jul 10, 2010
Thanks
by: Wray

Hi Amira I can't see how any of the supps you're taking would affect your liver enzymes to that extent. ALT levels can fluctuate, they can also increase with a lot of exercise, are you doing much? Have you been taking a lot of paracetemol, as this can raise levels too? A blocked bile duct can cause ALT to rise, have you had any gall bladder problems? And the T4 would not affect it either. I take it they've found you have hypothyroidism? This is always given, and yet they never check for all the other factors which can cause the thyroid to slow down. Most notable is a lack of vitamin D, did they check your level? It's a vital substance, a powerful antioxidant/anti-inflammatory. A low level increases parathyroid hormone which suppresses thyroid function. It's also needed by the liver too, maybe this is what they should be checking. For more info please see the Vitamin D Council website. You say each 1ml contains 20mg, I'm suggesting you increase to 200mg, so you would need 10 pumps. But before you do please read that page on oestrogen dominance! Take care Wray

Jul 10, 2010
cyclogest
by: Wray

Hi Sara I can only assume he thought you knew how to use them and that you still had a regular cycle. Very lax! If you had a regular cycle you should start them after ovulation, but you say your cycle is impossible to predict. So I suggest you cut them in half and use one half each day. At least you'll have enough for 28 days. It is best to use progesterone a minimum of twice a day, as levels drop after about 13 hrs. But to ask you to cut them into quarters... well I won't! This is the reason I prefer using a cream, having tried suppositories before. I don't know how much progesterone you were getting when using the cream, but if it was the regular 20mg/day, please read our web page on Oestrogen Dominance first. As increasing to 10 times the amount (if you don't cut them in half) could well cause this to occur. I don't believe a break is necessary, I don't take one, but it's entirely up to you if you prefer to. Take care Wray

Jul 12, 2010
Energy Boost
by: Dionne

Hello Wray, I am interested in purchasing the Energy Boost however, there is no supplemental amounts. In other words I don't know how much of each supplement is in the Energy Boost. Do you have a breakdown? Some of the supplements I take currently and I want to make sure I don't take too much. I take Vitamin D3 (5,000iu to 10,000iu/day), vitamin B complex, Inositol 4000mg/day, Taurine 1000mg/day, N-acetyl cysteine 4000mg/day and zinc 50mg/day.

Jul 12, 2010
Thanks
by: sara

Thanks Wray - the gynae did know my cycle is erratic because I told him (silly man), I had been using 100mg of the cream daily for 25 days with a 5 day break, I'm happy to take the 200mg and I am splitting them into 2 doses - maybe I will ask my more sympathetic (female) GP for another prescription.

N.B. for anyone going to the gynae for the first time with hormone problems - ask them to explain EVERYTHING, as a uterine biopsy is horrible and it seems they routinely do this with no explanation or aftercare advice!

Jul 13, 2010
Thanks
by: Amira

What is paracetemol again? I do take D weekly since a few months ago I found out it was really low, so now I take a weekly prescription. Work out has been lot more than usual, so you are correct and this could be it. Doing a CT tomorrow so will know more.

I have decided to order progesterone here, what my doctor gives me won?t even get me through one week then and no surprise anything changing.

I have been reading everything you have suggested and I feel better about my decision now. I am sure there are some good directions on how much to use, but could you tell me how many I would need to get me through the month and not run out?

Jul 14, 2010
To much progesterone?
by: Kat

Hi Wray, hope all is well with you. Okay, so I have gone through all the symptoms of lacking progesterone and was able to fix and experienced oestrogen dominance and fixed that as well. Now, I think we need to entertain the idea of my using to much progesterone? I have not had my period in 3 months time and am so very tired ALL the the time. I decided to try the following: This month I started the progesterone cream daily July 1 - 13 - stop the cream until July 22nd and restart using on the 23rd and start the cycle again for August etc. What do you think? I'm hoping this will jumpstart my normal cycle?? Confused and in need of assistance please. As always, thank you for your time and thoughts.

Jul 15, 2010
progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray, well unfortunately I had already stopped the Prometrium before I heard back from you. I know you're busy though. I stopped it for 3 days and have been so emotional. I did have a period on day one of stopping, I guess because I stopped taking the prometrium for 4 days last month. I was wondering what your opinion is on my dosage? I'm taking 200mg but if I stop for 4 days a month should I see if I could go up to 300 mg supp? I was doing so much better til I stopped and after stopping for 3 days, I've been crying, distant and a nervous wreck but I was noticing alot of bloatness before even stopping for those 3 days. I go to the dr. on the 21st day of my 1st day of my period to have lab drawn. Saliva test were done in the very beginning but for some reason wasn't that accurate for me so they have been going off lab for me.

Jul 15, 2010
Sick of bleeding...
by: Gina

Hello! I hope things are going well with you! I've been continuing to use a higher dosage of Progesterone cream from after Ovulation until I start my cycle, but the past 3 months the spotting has gotten worse. It's so bad it's *almost* as bad as my period, but then at the appropriate time (around day 21) I start an actual full-blown period. I'm so sick of bleeding for 2 weeks the past few months instead of a week (or 5 days-ish).

Am I taking too little or much cream? Will this subside? I've been I believe 4 months on the cream, so I was hoping it would subside at SOME point! Some of my other excess oestrogen symptoms *have* subsided, but instead now I bleed more! Please give some insight as to what I should do! Thanks!

Jul 18, 2010
Too much progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Kat It could be you do need to now reduce the progesterone, having 'fixed' all the other problems. But I don't believe the tiredness you are experiencing is due to an excess, I've used ±170mg/day for 14 yrs now and never had this problem. You're now 42 and in the beginning stages of peri-menopause, so could well be experiencing insulin resistance. This often starts during these years, for more info please see our page on Insulin Resistance. Please have a vitamin D test done too, this is such a vital nutrient and most of us have levels far too low. It should be a minimum of 50mg/ml or 125nmol/L year round. A lack causes many things, but one is insulin resistance, the other is a slowing of the thyroid, another cause of tiredness. Unfortunately many women experience tiredness during P-M and are put on to thyroid meds, please have that test done before they offer them to you! Progesterone can stop bleeding entirely, but generally the amount has to be higher than the amount you are using. Although if you were using it daily it can prevent bleeding, so using it with a break as you suggest is a good idea. Stick with the amount you were using and see if it helps. If it does then you could start reducing it slowly. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Jul 18, 2010
progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Danita I'm sorry I can't get back as quickly as I would like to, there are so many questions now. The one good thing about taking the break it's shown you do need progesterone and a high amount too. As I said previously I don't think you're ready to have a break at all. You could try the 300mg suppository, no harm will come of trying it, I've recommended far higher amounts to women with severe problems. When your test results are out, they will probably show a high level of progesterone, which might even cause them to tell you to lower the amount you are using. Please don't do that, as it's very evident you need a high amount. Please check the ratio of oestrogen to progesterone, you do this by dividing the oestrogen results with the progesterone results. The ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should well over 300, I've found it's even better if it's over 600. Take care Wray

Jul 18, 2010
Sick of bleeding...
by: Wray

Hi Gina I'm pleased some of your symptoms have subsided, it shows you do need progesterone. But if you are having bleeding so early in your cycle you are not using enough progesterone. Oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, vital once a month to stimulate the endometrium each month to grow and thicken ready for a possible fertilised egg. But too much and the lining builds excessively. Matrix metalloproteinases (MMP?s) are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle. If they are over active, as would be the case with an excess of oestrogen in the body, as oestrogen stimulates it?s production, the result is a pathological reaction such as inflammation and excessive bleeding. Progesterone suppresses MMP's. It?s only when progesterone levels drop at the end of the cycle that the MMP?s can get to work and breakdown the lining causing our monthly bleed. But with oestrogen continually stimulating more lining, and low progesterone, bleeding continues. Oestrogen is a pro-inflammatory hormone, progesterone is an anti-inflammatory. It suppresses both oestrogen and MMP's. I suggest during your next cycle you double the amount you're using, ie 400mg/day, I've found this amount works, although occasionally it has to be higher. Take care Wray

Jul 18, 2010
Energy Boost
by: Wray

Hi Dionne I'm sorry about that, I have asked the web master to put them up, but he's evidently forgotten! I'll list them below for you. It does contain 5000iu's vitamin D3, all the B vitamins except PABA, as I can't find any evidence it helps with IR, 4000mg/day inositol, 1000mg/day taurine and 500mg cysteine. This last I would like to add more, but it's so sour not many would tolerate it!
Supplement Facts
Serving size 13.7g (20ml/4tsp)
Servings per container 30

Amount per serving
Arginine 500mg
Carnitine (N-acetyl) 500mg
Cysteine (N-Acetyl) 500mg
Glutamine 4000mg
Glycine 500mg
Isoleucine 103mg
Leucine 127mg
Taurine 1000mg
Valine 103mg
Chromium picolinate 500mcg
Selenium amino acid chelate 200mcg
Zinc amino acid chelate 15mg
Vitamin B1 (thiamine) 25mg
Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) 25mg
Vitamin B3 (niacinamide) 25mg
Vitamin B5 (Ca D-pantothenate) 100mg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) 25mg
Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) 200mcg
Biotin 2000mcg
Choline 100mg
Folic acid 800mcg
Inositol 4000mg
Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) 5000IU
Alpha lipoic acid 100mg
CoQ10 50mg
D-Ribose 300mg
Milk thistle (81.79% silymarins) 515mg
Purified phylosilicate clay 500mg

Take care Wray

Jul 18, 2010
Thanks
by: Wray

Hi Sara Well I'm puzzled why he didn't mention a word to you about how to use them if he knew your cycle was erratic! I hope the higher amount helps, incidentally there is no need to take a break, unless you want to. I don't, even during peri-menopause when I had a regular cycle still. I found my symptoms came back, most unpleasant after being free of them! Thanks for the advice too, it was a procedure I never had thank heavens. Take care Wray

Jul 20, 2010
Random question
by: Amira

I know there is talk about lack or low progesterone being the cause of hair lost, but my hair is breaking from the roots. It is so dry and itchy and there are three places that look like I have shaved my hair. I take horse size vitamins for it, but nothing works. Here is my question, is it possible that much like Progesterone pills not being the best choice, taking complex pills are the same and it would be better to take them in liquid form? I ask since whatever I do it is not working and it is not being absorbed.

Jul 21, 2010
Wray is amazing to help all of us
by: Anonymous

Thanks so much for corresponding with all of us hormonal ladies. I am reading all of these post to help me cope with my own hormone issues at 40. All of your comments are really helpful to me and I just wanted to say a big thanks. Not many doctors seem to be helpful at all. If you know of one in Austin, Tx please recommend.

Jul 22, 2010
Thanks
by: Wray

Hi Amira Sorry I missed your comment on the 13th July. But paracetemol is acetaminophen, a pain killer. I'm glad you're taking vitamin D, but unless your weekly dose is 35,000iu's, ie 5000iu's per day, you won't be getting enough. Please see the Vitamin D council web site. Interesting you have been doing more exercise, let's hope this explains it. You ask how much progesterone cream you should use. Well the amount of progesterone should be between 100-200mg/day, so depending on the strength of the cream it varies enormously. If you're going to use the Natpro then you will need between 3-6ml per day. But as I suggested earlier I think you'll need 200mg/day to start with. Your hair loss is caused by excess testosterone, which you were taking. If you use the high amount of progesterone to begin with I think you'll find it reverses the problem. Please consider taking 2000mg/day inositol, often called the anti-alopecia vitamin, 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, 2-3mg/day biotin. All these are essential for hair growth, the cysteine in particular is vital for strong, healthy hair, skin and nails. If it's itchy you could have a B2 deficiency, it might be worth taking about 50-100mg/day of this too. And possibly stop all the other 'horse size' vitamins you're taking! I prefer the vitamins, aminos etc to be in powder form, often tablets/capsules have other unnecessary ingredients which the gut has to cope with.

Jul 22, 2010
Wray is amazing to help all of us
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks for the kind words! You could be in the first stages of perimenopause, a difficult time, if not the worst! Please have a look at our web page on Peri-menopause, it might give you some pointers. If you do consider using progesterone, please see this web page first on Oestrogen Dominance, most disconcerting if it occurs. The nearest doctor I know is in California, but in case it helps please see his details here. Take care Wray

Jul 23, 2010
questions
by: Angelique

Wow, what a helpful thread. I will be sure to save this to my favorites to refer back to!

I recently starting taking progesterone because I had low saliva levels (even though my blood levels were high-normal. I am 38 with extreme anxiety, hashimoto's & celiac... and I don't think I am ovulating every month now. Perhaps that is why my levels were conflicting since they were done different months. Could that be the case? For the past two months I have been taking 50mg capsules from days 14-28. Since taking it I had bloating/weight gain in my belly area and horrible migraines in the days right before my period started. Is that from estrogen receptors waking up? Just trying to understand. Now I am on day 7 of my cycle and my stomach has gone down and I am feeling pretty good--a little edgey but that usually subsides around day 10 for me. In fact, the only days of the month I really feel good is about day 10-15. I am thinking of switching to Dr. Lee's cream as I tried it before and don't remember these awful symptoms. Thanks for any input.

Jul 24, 2010
Please help with Migraines and Mood
by: Anonymous

I am 46 and had a hysterectomy/ooferectomy almost 4 years ago. I was on estrogen the entire time until recently, January, when I started seeing a doctor specifically for hormones because my migraines were getting so bad I was having more than 2 a week. We've tried compounded estrogen and progesterone mixes but it seems that the estrogen gives me migraines and the progesterone makes me mean and weepy. Right now I am off the estrogen and still taking progesterone and getting a migraine every day. I can't take this any more. Please help.

Jul 26, 2010
questions
by: Wray

Hi Angelique I'm happy the page has been helpful. From about the age of 35 we do begin to have anovulatory cycles, this would increase anxiety, as oestrogen does not drop. The results could well be skewed by anovulation in one month and ovulating in another. Oral progesterone is mostly destroyed in the gut and liver, so you would be getting about 5 to 10mg/day. This would be enough to stimulate the oestrogen receptors, and keep them on 'high alert' as one woman wrote! But far too low to make progesterone the dominant hormone. I've found between 100-200mg/day is needed before this occurs. For more info on various delivery routes please see our page on Progesterone application methods. Unfortunately I've found even a cream can cause the same symptoms you mention. Maybe when you used the progesterone cream in the past you were still ovulating every month? To overcome this phase it's essential to use enough progesterone, hence the amount I recommend. For more info on this please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. Progesterone should be used after ovulation, so assuming you have a 28 day cycle, it should be used from day 15 to 28, bleeding should occur soon after you stop. The luteal phase is always 12-14 days in all women, and progesterone should only be used then to boost our own supply. Unless symptoms are so severe when I recommend using it daily until they go. For migraines rub the cream under your ears, and all over your neck, face too if possible. Progesterone should be used as and when needed, it should not be used as a 'dose'. This is another reason I prefer a cream. Take care Wray

Jul 26, 2010
Please help with Migraines and Mood
by: Wray

Hi there Pity you were given the oestrogen, it's an excitatory, pro-inflammatory hormone. For more info you might like to see this page we have on HRT. It doesn't surprise me you have bad migraines and they're getting worse too. The combo would not have helped either, as the progesterone would have been too low an amount to have suppressed the oestrogen. And if it was an oral combo, even more useless. Oral progesterone is mostly destroyed by the gut and liver, whereas oestrogen is not. Please see our page on Progesterone application methods. I'm pleased you're off the oestrogen, but the symptoms you are now experiencing are being caused by the initial stimulatory affect progesterone has on the oestrogen receptors. Please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. This occurs in many women when first using progesterone, it's most unpleasant. The only way to prevent it or overcome it, it to use a high amount to begin with. I would suggest 200mg/day, but best as a progesterone cream, not oral. This needs to be 300mg/day to have any affect. Once symptoms have been resolved, the amount can be lowered gradually to the optimum, which is usually between 100-200mg/day. Please be aware stress drops progesterone levels, so more should be used in any stressful situation. Whenever you get a migraine rub the cream under your ears, all over your neck too. Progesterone is helpful for migraines, please see here and here. Take care Wray

Aug 04, 2010
Hormones
by: Danita

Hi Wray, I went & had my fsh & progesterone levels done 21 days after the first day of period as I mentioned earlier. My progesterone was still only 4.7ng/ml and my fsh was 99.8mIU/ml. I also asked about my last Vit D levels were & it was 43. My age is 45 yo. Anyway, I told her all the symptoms were back after stopping the prometrium 200mg for those 3 days (was suppose to be 4 days but couldnt do it). Anyway I talked with her about all the things you said and she increased my prometrium to 300mg supp.and gave me a progesterone 150 shot too. She really listens to my symptoms and your advice but wants to monitor me closely. Just curious what your thoughts were on this. She hadn't checked my Vit D in a few months but said she would the next time I have lab. Hopefully I start feeling better quickly? I have been feeling miserable all over again!

Aug 04, 2010
please help!
by: Anonymous

Dear Wray, I am going to be 60 this year and I had a hysterectomy 19 years ago. I was not given any Hrt or any other medicine at that time (because I still had my ovaries). I started gaining weight but could usually control it with diets until 8 years ago. Then I started having hot flashes and was put on Vivelle (.025) patch. I started gaining weight rapidly so I stopped it for a few months and then started again since my hot flashes were really bad. It helped with the hot flashes but I started to lose hair. I had no idea it was a side effect of the patch until my doctor increased my dosage to .05mg 3 years ago. The hair started to fall even more rapidly and that's when I saw the relashionship with the patch. I stopped it immediately and have not taken anything since then. Unfortunately the hair loss continues though slowly and the weight has been continuously increasing and nothing seems to work. I have gained 42 pounds during these last 8 years. I am taking medications for high blood pressure and cholesterol. My doctor thinks I should lose weight (even I know I should) but does not understand that no matter what I do (diet and exercise) it is not working. My blood test showed TSH=2.60uIU/mL, FSH=92.7mIU/mL, LH=59.2mIU/mL and Cortisol=15.7mcg/dL. Please tell me what I should do. Please help!

Aug 06, 2010
Hormones
by: Wray

Hi Danita Pity you had that break! So sorry to hear you're miserable again. It seems you must have had a blood test done, not a saliva test, judging by the level you give. Blood levels mid luteal phase are generally between 5-20ng/ml, but saliva can be much, much higher when supplementing as you are. So yours is on the low side. But what was your oestrogen? As it's the ratio between the two which is critical, not so much the level. To find this you divide the progesterone result by the oestrogen result. It should be well over 300:1, better still if it's 600:1, progesterone being the higher of the two figures. Your vitamin D level is better than most, but still not high enough. The minimum should be 50ng/ml year round, but preferable if it's in the 80-100ng/ml range. And remember that low vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. Are you taking any vitamin D? It should be 5000iu's per day for adults. 300mg/day is an extremely good dose, plus the 150mg shot, you should start feeling better soon, I hope so! Take care Wray

Aug 06, 2010
please help!
by: Wray

Hi there It seems to me you have insulin resistance, this often occurs in women going through peri-menopause. Progesterone levels are dropping but oestrogen remains at normal levels, until it drops at menopause. But it never drops as low as progesterone, because our fat cells continue making it. Oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells, but as these also make oestrogen, a vicious cycle ensues. The ovaries stop functioning after about 3 years from having a hyst, so you would have stopped making progesterone then. Unfortunately oestrogen also causes insulin resistance, for more on this please see our page on Insulin Resistance. A lack of vitamin D also causes insulin resistance, it also causes weight gain. Please have a test done, most of us have far too low a level. The following list gives an indication of levels of vitamin D found in the blood. The test should be done for 25-hydroxyvitamin D, also called calcidiol.....
Sufficient - 50?100ng/ml or 125-250nmol/L
Hypovitaminosis - less than 30ng/ml or 75 nmol/L
Deficiency - less than 25ng/ml or 62.4nmol/L
For more information please see here. The high blood pressure and cholesterol point to a lack of vitamin D too, please have that test done! Adults should take 5000iu's per day, if very low 10,000iu's per day. If you do have IR plus a lack of vitamin D, no amount of good food, dieting or exercise is going to help. The IR needs to be reversed and the vitamin D level raised. Progesterone can help cholesterol levels too, firstly it inhibits the conversion of cholesterol to cholesteryl ester, a more potent form, plus it increases bilary output of cholesterol, please see the following papers, here and here. It also helps hair loss, as it suppresses excess oestrogen and testosterone responsible for it. Please consider taking 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, essential for strong hair, 2000mg/day inositol, often called the anti-alopecia vitamin and 2-3mg biotin, another B vitamin essential for hair. You don't mention the hot flushes, but if they are still bothering you, you will need to use 400mg/day for 4-5 days, this normally stops them, then reduce slowly to between 100-200mg/day. Please see our page on Menopause too. Take care Wray

Aug 09, 2010
Bioidentical progesterone cream
by: Linda

I really hope you can advise me what to do. 

After being diagnosed with uterine fibroids and fibrocystic breast I decided to see an alternative dr to figure out my hormone balance. I'm 42 and still have regular periods.

My progesterone was 31L with the zrt saliva test. And my estrogen within range. 

So we decided to do bio identical Hormone therapy. 

I'm on 3% cream day 14-27 1 ml 1 x daily. 

The first and second day were just awful. Within the hour I put it on I started feeling very dizzy. Fog head. Could barely stand on my feet. Bloated. And sleepy. Day 2 the same. And day 3 these symptoms didn't occur. Still I don't feel comfortable. Sleepless, irritable, bloating and I'm afraid it might work adverse on me which makes me worry the fibroids might increase. As my breast seems hard and more painfull.

Can you tell me if I'm doing something wrong? Should I stop taking it? Do I need lower dosage? I'm going back to my alternative dr. But I would like more than one opinion. So I really hope you can comment on this.

Thank you so much!

Aug 09, 2010
Thank you.
by: Please Help!

Dear Wray, Thank you so much for getting back to me so promptly. I will definitely follow the advice you have given me. Once again thank you for giving me some hope with my problems.

Aug 11, 2010
hormones
by: Danita

Hi Wray, I don't believe she checked my oestogen but she did say I'm in menopause now. I'm 45 yrs old, still taking the prometrium 300 mg supp. & don't feel as irritable or having mood swings as bad but still some, still don't have my energy back like I had before stopping the prometrium for those 3 days and still decreased libido. But another problem is I am craving food so bad now & haven't been doing that, still don't have motivation to do things I want to do either. Are these cravings and symptoms going to get better with me still taking my meds even though I'm supposed to be in menopause related to all the fsh levels? I feel like how I use to when I was fixing to have my period but not having them. I appreciate all your advice!!

Aug 12, 2010
Bioidentical progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Linda It seems you've written two queries, as the name's the same and the query too! So I will give the same reply for both in the hopes you get one of them. Both fibroids and fibrocystic breasts indicate high oestrogen, low progesterone. Please see this web page for more info on Fibroids. Please see the following papers for info on breast cysts here, here and here. You don't give the result for the oestrogen, and you say it's in range, but what is the ratio between the two hormones? This is far more critical than the actual amount of each. 1ml of a 3% cream means you are getting 30mg progesterone per day, this is far too low. It will merely stimulate and keep stimulating oestrogen, hence your adverse symptoms. Please this page for more info on Oestrogen Dominance. This often occurs when first using progesterone, especially if the ratio between the two hormones is out. To feel well progesterone must be the dominant hormone with a ratio well over 300:1, better still if it's 600:1 or higher. I've found between 100-200mg/day progesterone is needed to resolve symptoms, it should always be used a minimum of twice a day too, as progesterone levels drop after about 13 hrs. It should never be used as a 'dose', but entirely dependant on symptoms. The more severe, the more is needed. Try rubbing the cream on your breasts, it does help. For more info on using progesterone, please see How to use progesterone cream. But as you are 42 and possibly in the beginning stages of P-M please see this page on Peri-menopause. Take care Wray

Aug 12, 2010
Same thread
by: Linda

Yes Wray it's the same thread and person. Thanks and I replied to you on were I opened this new thread. Thanks !

Aug 12, 2010
Progesterone half the month?
by: Anonymous

Can I get someone's opinion on a problem I am having. I started taking progesterone on the day of my period, I have been feeling great. Much better than normal, then about the 14-15 day in my cycle (about the time our progesterone naturally rises) I started getting cramps, getting really cranky and bloated. What is funny is I normally don?t feel this bad this time of month, I do a little but this seems worse than normal. Does anyone know if this is just a fluke or could this be a sign of too much progesterone? Does anyone stop taking progesterone during the last 2 weeks of their cycle when the progesterone is already higher? Could you be estrogen dominant only half the month?

Aug 12, 2010
All month long?
by: Tania

Can I get someone's opinion on a problem I am having. I started taking progesterone on the day of my period, I have been feeling great. Much better than normal, then about the 14-15 day in my cycle (about the time our progesterone naturally rises) I started getting cramps, getting really cranky and bloated (major PMS). What is funny is I normally don?t feel this bad around this time of the month but it could be coincidence. Does anyone know if you should use natprog cream all month or should you stop after the first 2 weeks since our body naturally rises in progesterone the last 2 months? Also could this be a different issue?

Aug 12, 2010
Possible hormone related symptoms???
by: Anonymous

I?m a 65 yr old female. My daughter is concerned that Progesterone may be my problem. She has received a lot of help here and even her doctor is starting to listen. So at her recommendation I?m trying and I hope that it can help me. I took the test you have on the home page and scored 53 but I know other things can cause that.

At around 22 or 23 I started having panic attacks. I had started taking birth control pills a year or so before. I was put on medication for the attacks and I improved but I had them periodically from that point on. Later I blamed low blood sugar and couldn?t understand why eating didn?t help.

I?ve had depression, panic attacks, low thyroid, breast cancer, mild MS, brown spots that started too early to be age related. Bloody spots on my arms with the smallest bump. I do what I call checking out, when I can?t handle things. I?m in a fog, not really here but gone none the less. Those times I can?t really think clearly, have terrible short term memory lost. I blame that on MS but my MS is not progressing an my Neuro released me. I can?t handle heat and that could be MS but in my case I retain fluid instead of the usual MS symptoms. And last but certainly not least I?ve tested low D3 and B12. I take pills for the d3 and shots for the b12. I went completely through menopause in my mid forties. My life at that time was out of control so I couldn?t blame what I was feeling on anything other than my life.

Now I have no energy and tire way too easily. I can?t handle stress at all without my heart pounding and this fog dropping over me. My panic attacks got so bad at one point I had to quit driving in heavy traffic or on freeways. Some days I can do that now.

I see that above I listed breast cancer almost as an after thought and I know its not. I took Tamoxifen for two years and Arimidex for three. I had radiation but not chemo. The drugs took their toll on me. I developed osteoporosis but that is reversing now I think. I?ve been off those for about two years. Today my blood pressure is fine 119/66, my heat beat is low but okay at 56. I feel numb all over, my face and feet are the worst. My eye lids, my face feels swelled and water logged. I?m foggy, heavy, light headed and tired. I am on a pill for my blood pressure, a water pill and a thyroid pill.

Any help you can give me will certainly be appreciated. Thank you.



Aug 13, 2010
Credentials, Please
by: Anonymous

I don't know where you've gotten your training about progesterone, Wray, but a lot of what you're advising on here is WRONG. Estrogen dominance CAN be alleviated by application of progesterone in cream, sublingual, vaginal, or injectable form. HOWEVER, there is such a thing as progesterone dominance, and it's not healthy either. Estrogen is necessary for insulin sensitivity, balancing serotonin levels and MAO in the brain, and has a very necessary effect on the cardiovasscular system as well as on bone density. To tell women to increase progesterone to hundreds of mg per day is harmful. You're twisting the advice of Dr. Lee and women who complain of weight gain, palpitations, and breast tenderness are experiencing too much progesterone BLOCKING estrogen effects. When it comes to supplementing with hormones, MORE is NOT better. Start low and go slow. Your information is potentially hazardous to women's health.

Aug 14, 2010
Progesterone half the month?
by: Wray

Hi there Progesterone should only be used from ovulation for the last 12-14 days before bleeding, ie during the luteal phase to supplement a possible low level. The reason you felt cranky mid month was the sharp rise in oestrogen countering the affects of the progesterone you were using. Oestrogen always rises just prior to ovulation. The only time I would recommend using progesterone in the follicular phase too would be due to severe symptoms. If you had increased your progesterone mid month it would have become the dominant hormone again and the symptoms would have gone. For more info please see this page on How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Aug 14, 2010
Credentials, Please
by: Wray

Hi there I get all my info from research studies done on progesterone and never quote anything that is not found by the studies, always giving the link to the papers so people can verify it themselves. I prefer to follow the advice Dr Dalton gave me with regard to the amount of progesterone to use, which was many times the amount Dr Lee used, and more in accordance with the studies done. Progesterone should never be used as a 'dose' but is dependant on symptoms. The ratio of the two hormones is critical, I've found it has to be well over 300:1, better if it's 600:1 for a woman to feel well. Oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells, which are themselves a non-ovarian source of oestrogen, so a vicious cycle starts. Hence the weight gain women and men get when excess oestrogen is present. As progesterone stimulates oestrogen initially, this can result in weight gain when first using progesterone. Please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. Oestrogen is also a pro-inflammatory hormone hence the sore breasts, please see the following papers here, here and here. Progesterone is a natural anxiolytic, whereas oestrogen is an excitatory hormone, please see here and here. As for the cardiovascular system, oestrogen causes an increase in smooth muscle tone, which causes constriction. Particularly dangerous in vascular muscle as it can lead to a heart attack, please see here. Oestrogen also causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes, please see here. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, please see here here. For more info on oestrogen's effects please see the page on HRT. Unfortunately oestrogen reduces insulin sensitivity, causing in many instances insulin resistance, please see here. Space doesn't allow me to give the many papers showing progesterone's protective effect on heart disease, I'll have to do a web page on this, giving the papers! Take care Wray.

Aug 14, 2010
Melasma
by: Kat

Hi Wray, Last we spoke we discussed my trying to find that "fine line" of which dose of progesterone was right for me. To date, I still haven't had my menses going on 4 months now and I've also started developing melasma on my face. Hoping you have some insight on what I should do. I've decreased my dosage from twice per day to just 1x per day and will be starting my 2nd month of stopping myself for one week in hopes of bringing my menses on. Please advise. As always, thank you very much!

Aug 15, 2010
Melasma
by: Wray

Hi Kat I'm puzzled why you are not getting your periods. Although you are now in peri-menopause which can cause very erratic cycles, these don't normally occur until the year or two before menopause. But as you say your mother went into this at 55, it's a good indication you will too. Or somewhere around that age. You had the leep procedure and the D&C two years ago, it could be this is causing the upset cycle only now, although I can find no evidence for this. If you do reduce the progesterone level, it's always best to reduce the amount, but still use it for a minimum of twice a day. Progesterone levels drop after about 13hrs. But judging by the melasma you still have too much oestrogen. Melasma is caused by excess oestrogen stimulating melanocytes, these make melanin, the pigmentation in all skin types. Please see here. It's often a sign of adrenal fatigue too, have you been stressed recently? Progesterone does resolve the problem, as it suppresses the excess oestrogen and it takes the strain off the adrenals. These have to make progesterone before they can convert it into cortisol, one of our stress hormones. Stress drops progesterone levels, thereby allowing oestrogen to dominate. Maybe you dropped the amount by too much, so please try increasing it again, but please use it twice daily. I'm sorry you are now having this problem, but there is so much going on in the body that we have no idea about. You said in a previous comment that you were symptomatic but didn't actually get the period. If you are still experiencing this, please stop using the cream when this occurs. I can't say if bleeding will occur, but it will be following your 'cycle'. Then count 14 days and start using the cream again on day 15 for the next 14 days, then stop again. I'm hoping this might start a cycle going again, how long it will take I have no idea. I've chosen the average of 28 days, as you have no cycle at the moment, and it's the easiest to follow. I suggest using the 200mg/day you were using, but only during these 14 days. Let me know if your other symptoms come back during the break, I'm hoping not! Take care Wray

Aug 15, 2010
Possible hormone related symptoms???
by: Wray

Hi there You are right, many things can cause the same symptoms as a progesterone deficiency, lack of vitamin D for one. In fact a low level of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. You say you had a test done and it was low, but are you taking enough? It should be a minimum of 5000iu's/day, and the level should be a minimum of 50ng/ml year round. For more info please see the Vitamin D council website. A lack of vitamin D can lead to cancer, depression, thyroid problems, high BP, osteoporosis and more. Panic attacks are not caused by low blood glucose, but by a rapid drop in glucose. If something containing sugar, or a food which is converted to glucose is eaten, blood glucose can rise too quickly, followed by too quick a drop. Please avoid sugar, all grains particularly wheat, sweet fruits, or sweet root or fruit veggies. For more on food please see the page on Nutrition and Diet. Panic attacks can also be caused by a drop in GABA levels, this is one of our most calming neurotransmitters. Progesterone activates the GABA receptor sites, so with low levels of progesterone GABA does not work efficiently. Please see our page on Anxiety. Stress drops progesterone levels, so your 'out of control life' would have been responsible. Your tiredness and lack of energy sounds as if your cells are not getting the 'fuel' they need, please see our page on Insulin Resistance. Oestrogen causes water retention, hence your water logged feeling. Progesterone is such an excellent diuretic it's now given via IV transfusion to brain trauma victims. Please read our page on Menopause too. And if you should consider progesterone please read the page on Oestrogen Dominance first. This can occur and is disconcerting if it does. I generally recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone, but it's entirely dependant on symptoms. The more severe they are, the more is needed. Take care Wray

Aug 18, 2010
change in symptoms normal?
by: Danita

Hi Wray, just wanted to make sure I'm suppose to have these changes in symptoms. I'm still taking the 300mg prometrium supp. and I'm gaining weight, starting to have breast tenderness, no period this month and feel like I'm hungry all the time but try to eat small portions to try and avoid wt. gain. Also, I feel very bloated and still having mood swings, do have some good days but still not feeling very social. I'm also still taking my prescription Vit.D. Will these symptoms get better if I continue taking my prometrium at this dose or do you think I need to do something different. I'm ready to start feeling better and I sure don't want to gain wt. so quickly. Plz help! I'm trying to be a good mom but its difficult with all these changes. I appreciate all your advice in the past, its really been helpful!! I'm hoping that I'm going through a rough patch and it will get better, Plz tell me I'm right or if I'm not what I need to do to get right. Everytime I think I'm there then I feel like I take 2 steps back.

Aug 19, 2010
Sleep and Progesterone
by: Bettye

Wray, since my peri-meno days, I have been having sleep issues which increased after menopause. I am 59 years old and recently had my progesterone cream dosage increased from 20 mg/day to 100 mg/day. My libido was low too. How long does it normally take to see results? Also, is the cream a good method to address sleep? My thyroid and melatonin levels are normal.

Aug 21, 2010
change in symptoms normal?
by: Wray

Hi Danita I can't remember how long you've been using the suppositories, but it can take from 3-6 months for progesterone to settle down. I found it took 6 months for all my symptoms to go, although one by one they got better over that 6 month period. You will have good days, bad ones too. There's no way of telling what is causing it. What I have found is if ovulation does not occur, only the supplemental progesterone is helping. It's evident from the symptoms you've given they are being caused by excess oestrogen. Although the amount of progesterone you are getting is good, I hope you are using them twice a day, as progesterone drops after about 13 hrs. One big disadvantage of the supps is they can only be used as that, I would normally recommend rubbing a cream on your breasts. It's very effective at helping this. Oestrogen destabilises blood glucose causing hunger and cravings, so to avoid the weight gain, eat only protein and green leaves and veggies with low carb. Avoid all grains, legumes, sweet fruits, or sweet root or fruit veggies. For more info please see our page on Nutrition and Diet. Take care Wray

Aug 24, 2010
Hormones
by: Danita

Hi Wray, sorry to keep bothering you. I have been taking the prometrium for about 4 months starting with the 200mg then switching to the 300mg for the last 3 weeks, only taking 3 days off each month until this month. I was taking all 300 mg at night but have been thinking about using 200mg supp at night & one orally during the day. I am still very unsocial, would prefer that I don't talk to anyone. Not able to make any plans of fear I'm not able to follow through, even the simplest plans that shouldn't be a problem all out of fear of being around people. My children can't get my attn because I'm so dazed out & haven't been able to help them with school work or any activities for that matter, I can't remember what I did yesterday. I go from one emotion to another. Haven't felt this bad since the beginning of perimenopause. Still taking Vit. D as prescribed. My Dr. said that my FSH levels indicated I was in menopause now. I had to call her before you got back with me bc I couldn't handle it anymore. She decided to try me on a low dose of estrodial (may not have spelled right) haven't picked it up yet. I'm also going to try the prog. cream that is on your board, will that be sufficient with what I'm taking already?

Aug 25, 2010
Cindy
by: Anonymous

I'm 47 years old. I have had a lot of problems with period, bleeding for 18 days. I use bioidentical hormones, but for 6 monts I use 2mg estradiol gel and 15 ml of progesterone cream from day 1 to day 26 and 50 ml of progesterone from day 13 to day 26. The spotting and bleed didn?t stop for 8 months. Then, for 2 months I put only progesterone from day one to day 12 (50ml) and from day 13 to day 24 (350ml - 100mg Prometrium and 250 mg cream) and the bleeding stopped.

But I have had lots of hot flashes and in blood tests the estradiol is very low (20 pg/ml), so my doctor prescribed me estradiol again (1mg/day). Then I have spotting for 10 days and period came when I stopped progesterone. I think I need estradiol, but when I put it on I start spotting/bleeding in about 5 or 10 days.

Could somebody help me? I don't know what to do! Am I using too much progesterone cream? Thanks very much for your help.

Aug 28, 2010
Hormones
by: Wray

Hi Danita You're not bothering me. The amount of progesterone you're using should be helping you. But you have to use it at least twice a day, progesterone drops after about 13hrs, this could account for the way you are feeling, as it keeps dropping before your next suppository. Progesterone can't get into the cells if blood glucose is too high, so avoid all sweet, starchy carbs, all sugars and anything containing it. Progesterone also drops on dark days, specially so in winter, and as you know low vitamin D reduces it's benefits. Have you had a test recently to see what your level is? I can't remember how much you are taking, but it should be no less than 5000iu's per day. Stress drops progesterone levels, and the situation you are in will be causing unnecessary stress as you can't seem to pull out of it. And remember I told you oral progesterone is the least affective delivery system. Please see our page on Progesterone application methods. I'm not in favour of anyone taking oestrogen, please see this web page we have on HRT. It could drop your progesterone level too, so please see this page on Oestrogen Dominance. We all get too much oestrogen as it is, it's in our food, water, air and the skin care we use, please see this website Our Stolen Future for more info. If you do try the cream, I suggest you use it hourly to keep your levels up. So whatever amount you decide to use, split it up, although it wouldn't harm to use another 200mg. So use the 200mg suppository at night, and the cream during the day. 200mg is 6ml of cream or just over 1tsp. If you have a 1ml measure spoon you could use 1ml at a time spread over 6 times a day. I do hope this works for you. Did I give you the link to our page on Anxiety? There are plenty of nutrients which can help you.
Take care Wray

Aug 28, 2010
Cindy
by: Wray

Hi Cindy I don't believe you were using enough progesterone, 50mg in the luteal phase will barely get your level to normal. As you are having bleeding problems you do need much more, which is why the higher amount stopped the bleeding. I don't believe you need extra oestrogen, even though your level is slightly low. The range is 30 - 400 pg/ml. Oestrogen suppresses progesterone which is why you spotted for so long prior to bleeding. Oestrogen is a mitogen, it stimulates cells to grow. Vital in stimulating the endometrium each month to grow and thicken ready for a possible fertilised egg. But in excess it stimulates cells to continue growing. MMP?s are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle. If they are over active, as would be the case with excess oestrogen in the body, as oestrogen stimulates their production, the result is a pathological reaction. A high level of MMP?s can lead to inflammation and excessive bleeding in the uterus. If a low level of progesterone is present, and a high level of oestrogen, the lining will continue to grow. With a high level of MMP?s the lining will also continue to break down. Progesterone suppresses both MMP?s and oestrogen. It is essential to use a high amount of progesterone. Hot flushes are dramatically reduced and are often stopped with 400mg/day for 4-5 days. Progesterone should be used from ovulation which is always 12-14 days before we bleed. For more info please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. I would use the cream only and as that amount helped in the past stick to it until stable. Oral progesterone is the least affective delivery method, please see our page on Progesterone application methods. Although your oestrogen is on the low side, what was your progesterone, as it's the ratio of the two hormones which is critical, not the amounts of each. Progesterone should be the dominant hormone to feel well. Take care Wray

Aug 29, 2010
How long does it take for transdermal progesterone cream to take effect?
by: Diane

I'm wondering how long it takes for the bio-identical progesterone cream to take effect. I was using one brand but the potency diminished, and so the symptoms of low progesterone came back. I have now switched to a new and different cream, and wondered how long it would take to reverse the symptoms?
My worst symptom is hair loss. The second worst (although they are both as bad) is insomnia. Thanks.

Aug 30, 2010
How long does it take for transdermal progesterone cream to take effect?
by: Wray

Hi Diane It's impossible to tell how long it will take as it depends on so many factors. How old you are, how bad the symptoms are, are you under or over weight, do you have other health issues, how much endogenous oestrogen you have, do you have low vitamin D as this reduces the benefits of progesterone, do you live in a high latitude country with little sun as progesterone drops during dark days, do you eat large meals as this causes progesterone to drop, do you have high blood glucose as progesterone cannot enter the cells if this is present, are you stressed as progesterone drops then too. And finally how much progesterone are you using. It needs to be between 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are bad. So it might not be the potency diminishing, but you were more stressed than normal. Oestrogen dominance can set in too, you don't say how long you've been using the progesterone or how much. For more info please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. The worse the symptoms, the more is needed. Hair loss benefits from progesterone, as it suppresses any excess testosterone you are making. This hormone is the most common cause of hair loss in women, often called male pattern baldness. Stress causes hair to fall out too, often because progesterone levels drop, and oestrogen and testosterone become the dominant hormones. I suggest you take 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, 2000mg/day inositol and 2-3mg/day biotin. These are excellent for strong healthy hair, cysteine benefits the skin and nails too. Take care Wray

Sep 02, 2010
Cyclogest alternative
by: Me again!

Hello! I've been on Cyclogest pessaries 200mg for 2 months for perimeno - (previously I was using a cream but it got a bit too pricey for me)- my consultant told me yesterday he would only give it for 6 months because of the side effects, which when questioned he seemed very vague about.. if anyone knows why this might be, I'd be grateful to hear from you!
Perhaps it's because of using them in one part of the body?? (Which I don't, alot of the time I melt them and rub them in my skin).

If he stops the script after 6 months I'll just go back to the cream anyway.. he said he would give me synthetic prog, I said absolutely not!!!

Sep 03, 2010
Help!
by: Lisa

Hi, I'm 23 years old and I started taking progesterone cream today. I have suffered for years with severe acne covering my face, neck, chest, back , and other areas. I also had to have my gallbladder removed 6 months ago. I suffered for 3 years not knowing what was wrong. Since I've had it gone I haven't felt any better. I'm still suffering from constant nausea and other upsets. But recently I have had problems with severe mood swings, depression so bad I was hospitalized, Varicose veins that are pain full, hair loss, migraines, and insomnia. I also have problems with my sex drive. Well I have none. I needed to know what to do and if all my symptoms are caused by estrogen dominance and that me starting the cream is a good choice. I also wanted to know what the cause of it would be at my age. I was very malnourished for a long time due to my gallbladder problems. I am only 100 pound and have had 2 kids, 1 of which is turning 2 soon. Thank you for your time and consideration. P.S. the cream dosage is 22 mg twice daily in a 1/4 teaspoon.

Sep 07, 2010
Cyclogest alternative
by: Wray

Hi there I'm pleased you refused the synthetic progesterone, it's nothing but bad news. Please see our page on Contraceptives. Having read the 'side' affects on the Cyclogest site, none of them relate to progesterone. They all relate to oestrogen or the synthetic progestins, why they give them I don't know. You only have to read the studies done on progesterone to realise it comes with no adverse side affects. If it did, every pregnant animal, including humans, would have extremely severe symptoms, which we don't! It's an excellent idea to melt the pessaries, it doesn't harm the progesterone as it's melting point, 126 °C (259 °F), is far higher than a melted pessary. Take care Wray

Sep 08, 2010
Help!
by: Wray

Hi Lisa You might like to see our page on Acne. It's essential to avoid all starchy, sweet carbs, such as potatoes, grains, especially wheat, sweet root or fruit vegetables, plus sweet fruits, and of course anything containing sugar. You might like to see The Paleo Diet website too, as they go into acne and how to cure it in great detail. Excess testosterone plays a role, as does oestrogen. Oestrogen can also cause nausea, so can a lack of progesterone. This is generally the cause of nausea in pregnant women. Low blood sugar can cause nausea too, so can a liver under stress. Yours appears to be, as you've had your gall bladder out. Why they took it out beats me, as the gall bladder is a storage organ for bile. Unless it was full of stones, but even these can be helped naturally. I suggest you take between 2000-5000mg/day taurine. This amino acid is vital for bile production, which in turn helps to keep fats flowing through and not clogging up the liver. It's also a potent antioxidant too. Progesterone also increases bilary output of cholesterol. Your other symptoms all point to high oestrogen and low progesterone. I don't believe the 44mg/day of progesterone will be enough to help, I've found between 100-200mg/day is needed. In your case you might need the higher amount. Please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Sep 15, 2010
HELP
by: T

Hello! I have several questions. I am 31 year old woman and I've been experiencing severe PMDD symptoms my entire reproductive life - severe depression, fatigue, foggy thinking, apathy, moodiness, etc. The symptoms come around the time I ovulate and about a week before my period. I started using progesterone cream 5-6 months ago and many of the symptoms subsided. I got off of the progesterone cream for a month and took a hormonal panel test to see if the imbalance would come up in my blood work and everything came back 'normal'. I've returned to using the pg cream because it helped so much but now I am losing my hair and I have no idea why. Could I be using too much pg cream? I use about 1/4 teaspoon of Emerita. Also, could the actual brand be reacting badly with my chemistry? I didn't experience this with FemGest. My doctor suggested I try Black Cohosh to help my hair regrow. HELP, please!

Thank you so much.

Sep 16, 2010
Progesterone and breasts
by: Linda

Using progesterone cream for a year now, I have almost no breasts. My estradiol is very low. I read that too much progesterone can cause breast sagging. Is that true? Thanks.

Sep 25, 2010
Progesterone Excess
by: Anonymous

Hello out there everyone. I have a website where you can look up the effects of too much progesterone.natural-hormones.net has symptoms of too much progesterone and they are as listed:Fatigue, Breast Tenderness, Bloating, Mood Swings, Sedation (extreme tiredness), Loss of Libido, and Vaginal Dryness. I also see a hormone specialist doctor who said there are symptoms to both too much and too little progesterone along with too much/little estrogen and testosterone. Asking your doctor to test your hormones is not a bad idea if you are having a problem. Coming from someone who has polycystic ovarian disorder and ended up with really high testosterone I say it's a good idea to be cautious.

Sep 29, 2010
Periods returned?
by: Me again!

Firstly to Linda - I've been on 100mg natural prog for 2 months (previously 75mg for 6 months) and I have gone up a cup size, without weight gain. Just thought I'd add that because I suppose we all react in different ways to the hormones. I hope you get an improvement though.

To Wray - can you advise me on this please? After increasing to 100mg cyclogest (from 75mg cream) 8 weeks ago, and having had irregular or no periods for months, for 3 cycles now my periods have been regular again (every 21 days, used to be 23). Should I start using the cyclogest for 14 days, or continue with the 25 day with a 5 day gap, ignoring the periods?
Thanks :-)

Sep 30, 2010
When will I notice the difference... truly
by: Maria

Hi Wray, via another email you identified my oestrogen dominance, having suffered with fibroids and heavy periods, and this year, at aged 52, I had a subtotal hysterectomy, including my ovaries, which put me into a surgical menopause with all the anxiety and hot flashes etc that go with it! The doc suggested bioidentical Oestrodial patches for 1 - 2 years and in desperation I started to use them even though initially, I had no intention of using HRT and the symptoms started to subside... it was very tempting to sit back.. but I had read about progesterone therapy and was anxious to try it, rather than rely on the HRT. I ordered 3 tubes and the day it arrived, I took the patch off (by now, I had been using them for around 1 month) and rubbed in the cream determined to sit it out.

Almost immediately, I could feel the flushes start up again and remembered you said that I would feel worse before feeling better. Having started on around three quarters of a teaspoon, I just kept increasing it and am using around 2 tsps a day at least, 1 in the morning and 1 at night, hoping it will drown out the oestrogen, so my first tube wont last long - but if it works its definitely worth it.

Am I doing this right? I am thinking that if I use a large amount it will happen more quickly? Should I just keep the levels of cream going at this rate until the flushes start to decrease again (how long will that take?) and once I do notice a difference, how much do I start decreasing it by on a daily basis?

I hope you can respond as I am placing so much faith in this cream and want to go back to my doctor and prove him wrong... because he said post menopausal woman without a uterus don't need progesterone. I have already recommended several of my friends visit your website to read up on how much it could benefit them.

I also hoped my husband could use it to increase his libido and perhaps sort his erectile problems instead of using viagra which seems to be the only thing that works (just about) for him...

Look forward to hearing from you and just wanted to thank you for being there for us all. xx

Oct 01, 2010
Me again comment
by: Linda

Thanks! Im doing the Zrt saliva test in a week ! See what comes our if that! Thank you

Oct 04, 2010
Adrenals
by: Anonymous

I have been on progesterone cream for a few months now. This month I am having horrible depression, waking at night, nightmares and irritability. I have adrenal fatigue. I read that sometimes treating progesterone deficiency before addressing adrenal fatigue can cause issues like this. Just wanted to see what your thoughts were on this. I also read that some people convert progesterone to testosterone? Thanks!

Oct 05, 2010
HELP
by: Wray

Hi T All those symptoms you give indicate too high a level of oestrogen and too low a level of progesterone. Interesting they occur around ovulation, oestrogen peaks just beforehand. Please see a Graph we have. Oestrogen also peaks again mid-luteal cycle, so does progesterone. But if the corpus luteum is not producing enough progesterone they can occur again. Progesterone also drops before a period, if it drops faster than oestrogen the two hormones become unbalanced, then all hell can break loose. I've found to feel well progesterone must be the dominant hormone, best if the ratio is over 600:1. To find this divide the progesterone result by the oestrogen result. I've found it's rarely 'normal'. Hair loss is one sign of oestrogen dominance, this can occur when having a break from progesterone, please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. Starting it again causes it to initially stimulate oestrogen and testosterone. And I don't believe you are using anywhere near enough progesterone! 1/4tsp would be giving you about 19mg/day, I've found it needs to be between 100-200mg/day. For more info please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. This would explain why it's stimulating oestrogen, there is simply not enough progesterone for it to become dominant. In fact we normally make about 20mg/day, and there's nothing normal about your symptoms! The FemGest contains the same amount of progesterone as the Emerita, so it would not be the change in creams. Emerita is far safer too, it only contains phenoxyethanol, which has been banned since 2008 for use in natural or organic creams. Black cohosh has oestrogenic properties, I wouldn't try that. Instead increase the progesterone and take 2000mg/day inositol, 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine and 2-3mg biotin, all these help hair growth. Take care Wray

Oct 05, 2010
Progesterone and breasts
by: Wray

Hi Linda Oestrogen is a mitogen, it stimulates cells to divide and multiply. It's needed for breast development in puberty. Progesterone stops the proliferation caused by oestrogen, and stabilises the breasts. I have found if the breasts are very large, progesterone can reduce them, simply because it suppresses the excess oestrogen those women are experiencing. I've not found it causes sagging. Having low oestrogen is an advantage, please see our page on HRT. It matters not which form oestrogen comes in, whether HRT, the pill, oestrogen mimics from the toxins now on the planet, from oestrogenic plants, bio-identical oestrogen or the oestrogen we make. It still has the same affect on us. Take care Wray

Oct 05, 2010
Progesterone Excess
by: Wray

Hi there The symptoms you list are related to excess oestrogen. It's a known initiator of inflammation, it's a mitogen causing cells to divide and multiply hence it's danger in cancer, endometriosis, fibroids, breast and ovarian cysts, it causes water retention, vascular constriction, increases blood clots, increases aggression, anxiety, and more. Progesterone is excellent for mastodynia and fibrocystic breast disease, please see here, here and here. Bloating too, oestrogen causes water retention, progesterone is such a good diuretic it's now being given via IV transfusion to brain trauma victims, please see here and here. Mood swings too, progesterone is an excellent anxiolytic, please see here, here and here. There is increasing evidence that progesterone increases libido, that it's not testosterone responsible for this, please see here. In fact we have many men using it to increase theirs. As for causing a dry vagina, if this was the case, no pregnant woman would be able to give birth, her vagina would be so dry. In a normal monthly cycle we make about 20mg/day, while pregnant in the third trimester, we make over 400mg/day. It's safer to get info from research studies, than from web sites. You might like to see the studies done on PCOS, we have a web page on this which explains why testosterone rises, please see PCOS. Take care Wray

Oct 05, 2010
Periods returned?
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks for your comment to Linda, we are all so different, it's so difficult to advise someone knowing this. The regular cycles could be a fluke, or it could be they are settling down. You said you were using the progesterone because of P-M symptoms, which probably means they will become erratic again. Please see our page on Peri-menopause for more info. You could try following the cycle and see how you get on. It's so difficult to advise when someone is in P-M because the cycle becomes so disrupted. So if your cycle is now 21 days, this would mean starting the cream on day 8, and using it for the next 14 days. If you find the break too long, ie symptoms come back, then I suggest you go back to the system you were using. Although I found it much easier to use progesterone daily, saves forgetting! You might be interested in a web page I did recently on the various delivery systems, please see Progesterone application methods. Take care Wray

Oct 05, 2010
When will I notice the difference... truly
by: Wray

Hi Maria Bless you for the kind words. Pity you had the hyst, but it's done now and no going back! Just as progesterone stimulates oestrogen, the reverse is also true, hence your symptoms subsiding now. For more info please see Oestrogen Dominance. You might like to read our page on HRT too, there is a link to plenty of research papers, see HRT. You are correct about increasing the amount, but I've found 400mg/day for 4-5 days is needed to either dramatically reduce or stop hot flushes. The amount you are using is high, about 330mg, but not high enough. It does mean the tube is finished quickly, but it also means the hot flushes are eliminated quickly. Bearing in mind we are all different, but so far I've found the 400mg does work. Then reduce slowly, I suggest about 1ml at a time, staying on the reduced amount for a few days, then reducing again. You'll soon find out if it's too quick as symptoms come back, so increase slightly. A study was published this year in which oral progesterone was taken at 300mg/day. But it took some time to help....."women assigned to progesterone experienced a 56% decrease in vasomotor symptoms during 12 weeks of treatment", please see here. Oral progesterone is the least effective delivery system, for more info please see Progesterone application methods. As for postmenopausal women without a uterus not needing progesterone, what rubbish! It's such a pity it was called 'progesterone' as it's now firmly stuck in peoples minds it's a pregnancy hormone. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's vital for too many things for me to give you here, but you might be interested in it's benefits for ageing. Please see here, here, here and here. Finally it's as vital for men as it is for women, they don't have a uterus! We have many using it to increase libido, reduce BPH, stress, etc. There is evidence that progesterone increases libido, and not testosterone as we've been lead to believe, please see here and here. Take care Wray

Oct 06, 2010
Adrenals
by: Wray

Hi there You don't say how much progesterone you are using, but possibly the amount you are using is too low if you are experiencing symptoms now. Please see our page on How to use progesterone cream for more info. Or you've been through a stressful time recently, as stress drops progesterone levels. Stress of course affects the adrenals above all other organs. One of the best ways to help the adrenals, if stress is unavoidable, is to use progesterone. When the mind/body perceives stress the adrenals make the three stress hormones, cortisol, adrenaline and noradrenaline. Cortisol is made from progesterone within in the adrenals. Initially adrenal progesterone rises, but in prolonged stress it drops, due to it's conversion into cortisol. By supplementing with progesterone it relieves the adrenals from the burden of making it first, see here. Hypoglycemia can also impair adrenal function, if this is a problem please see Nutrition and Diet. Prolonged blood sugar problems lead to IR, please see our page on Insulin Resistance. Progesterone also lessens the stress response by activating the GABA receptor sites. The amino acid GABA is also one of our most calming neurotransmitters, please see here, here and here. Another calming amino acid is taurine, and tyrosine is the precursor to the two other stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. It would be an idea to take both these to help the adrenals, and to increase your protein intake. Start on a low dose and increase gradually until the optimum is found. You are right, everyone converts progesterone into testosterone, oestrogen and cortisol too, it's the precursor to these three hormones and others too. But if these should be too high, using a high amount of progesterone will suppress them. Take care Wray

Oct 06, 2010
Re: periods returned
by: Me again!

Thanks again for your help Wray :-)
Hormones are so confusing!! I think I'll stick to the 25 day usage, as this weekend I had the most hideous migraine, worse than in the last few months - b****r the periods I'll be consistent even of they aren't!

Oct 08, 2010
Re: periods returned
by: Wray

Hi there They are confusing and they make us confused! If you ever get a migraine again, rub the cream all over your neck and face. As many times as you need to reduce it, progesterone is excellent for migraines and headaches, please see here, here and here. Take care Wray

Oct 09, 2010
Re:Adrenals
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray. Thanks for your response about adrenals, etc. I am day 27 of my cycle and having horrible fluid retention along with migraine. I am guessing that is another sign I am not on enough progesterone? And I saw where you said for migraines to rub the cream all over face and neck. Is that ok to do even on day 27? I usually stop the cream day 26. Thank you.

Oct 10, 2010
Re:Adrenals
by: Wray

Hi there Yes it is a sign you're not using enough. Both progesterone and oestrogen drop just prior to bleeding, but if progesterone drops too fast, which is often the case, the two hormones become unbalanced. This leaves oestrogen the dominant hormone. Oestrogen is a known initiator of inflammation and water retention, hence the symptoms you are experiencing. Progesterone is such a good diuretic it's now given via IV transfusion to brain trauma victims. Plus it's excellent for migraines/headaches, please see here, here and here. I'm all in favour of subduing or eliminating symptoms first, even if it means using progesterone while bleeding and beyond. In many cases I advise using it daily for 2-3 cycles to achieve this, and then following the cycle again. If oestrogen is high symptoms will be bad, progesterone must be the dominant hormone to feel well. Often this takes time, between 3-6 months in some women. Adjust the amount you use according to your symptoms, this is the great advantage the cream has over other delivery methods. Take care Wray

Oct 11, 2010
TTC after Miscarriage
by: Hopeful One

Hello, I was diagnosed with PCOS several years ago. I believe I am IR too. I had a m/c back in August and I have finally started ovulating again. My luteal phase last cycle was 11 days and I am thinking I might have a progesterone problem for I have been extremely tired, having muscle aches/spasms, mood swings, constipation, brain fog, and nauseous off and on for the last month. My Gyn doesn't test for progesterone, so I have been reading up on it online. I ovulated yesterday (huge BB temp spike) and bought some progesterone cream that I want to start using either tomorrow or the next day. My first question is, is it safe to use when trying to conceive? Also, is it safe to use if you don't have a progesterone problem to begin with? And lastly, how much should I be using? I understand that if I do become pregnant that I will need to continue using it for 2-3 months. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Oct 16, 2010
Early menopause
by: Anna Cochran

Hi, I really hope you can help me. I've been diagnosed with early menopause, which I believe I started going through at about age 32 (I'm now 40). I've been using progesterone cream since April this year so that I could ween myself off the HRT medication I was on. Once I was completely off the HRT, the symptoms gradually returned with a vengence, and so I've had to go back onto the HRT. I had blood tests a while ago & my eostradiol levels were so low as to be almost unrecordable. My thyroid results came back normal. My doctor advised that I go back onto HRT after the results came back, which was about 2 months ago. I'm still using the progesterone cream, and have found that I've put on about 3 kgs since going back on the HRT (additional to the 10kgs I have gained in the last 8 years or so). I used to be a small person, so I'm very upset about this and it seems that no amount of exercise (I run and do weight training four times a week) makes any difference - the weight is still piling on. My appetite hasn't increased and I just don't understand it and I don't know what to do. I was wondering whether it could be too much progesterone cream. Any advice or explanations you could give me would be very much appreciated.

Oct 17, 2010
re:adrenals
by: Anonymous

Ok. You have helped me to understand more about what's going on. I still have some other questions though. This hormonal stuff gets so frustrating.... So what happens about day 6 or 7 of cycle with estrogen? Does it rise? I always feel so emotional, edgy & weepy those days. And usually get a headache or migraine also. And if so, is it ok to just use the cream those days then wait til after ovulation? Thank you!

Oct 18, 2010
Starting to feel better
by: Maria

Hi Wray, thank you so much for your help in relation to the high dose of cream, I have now been using it for almost 4 weeks, and have nearly finished my fourth tube, but I feel so much calmer and relaxed (even though I am currently very stressed due to outside influences!!) I am still getting really hot flushes though, particularly at night, and they are affecting my sleep quite badly, but not every single night. I am thinking that this may be because of my stress, regardless of the high amount of progesterone I am using? Do you think that this is the case? I don't seem to have had many nights when I sleep right through to be honest, and the hot flushes are so intense.

Also, you mention about being mindful of the additives in the creams and lotions we use on our skin however, does using them on other areas of skin have a negative effect on the progesterone cream. For example, if I rubbed on my progesterone cream, and then accidentally or otherwise, rubbed another cream on top.. would this affect the results of NATPRO?

You mention that using progesterone cream helps eliminate facial hair yet helps hair to grow... how does this work? I have noticed my eyebrows and hair on my head becoming thinner particularly over the past year, and the chin and top lip have become more of a problem, will applying the cream directly onto the face help? Will it also assist with hair on other parts of the body (legs for instance)?

Finally, a friend's daughter who has just turned 11 and has already developed breasts and her body is changing at a rate of knots. She is tall for her age and could easily pass for 14 but she isn't and my friend doesn't want her to grow up before her time. Her daughter is very self-conscious of her body, she has had quite a problem with spots on her face, and her legs are already pretty hairy. Her periods haven't arrived yet, but the constant complaints about stomach aches are obviously a signal that something will happen soon. Would progesterone cream be of any benefit to her at all?

I mentioned my husband using the cream rather than Viagra... could you suggest a dose that he might try to start him off please?

Sorry for all the questions, I so appreciate your help, you really are my lifeline right now, your website is so informative and is packed with so much helpful information, when I was chatting to a friend of mine, (who has noticed the difference in me by the way), she said she could see me becoming a distributor I so believe in the properties of your cream - I really want women to know it works! Keep up your excellent work Wray, what would we do without you! x


Oct 18, 2010
Very confusing......
by: Fawn

I have been reading up on progesterone cream and the info is over whelming. I was diagnosed with endometriosis when I was 16 and finally got a partial hysterectomy when I was 30. It really caused me a lot of imbalance physically and mentally. Now I'm 44 and dealing with pre-menopause. Basically I've never had a break. I can say the cream has helped. I started out with a low dosage and now I'm up to 100mg. This spring I started feeling really tired and drug down all the time....Like I was wearing a lead suite or I had taken some drug to help me sleep! Found out I had a vitamin D deficiency. I was told it should be between 30 and 100. Mine was at 12. I have been on a vitamin D supplement to fix this but still feeling tired, jittery, light headed and a little dizzy, as well as weak with no train of thought and short memory. I do work out and it makes no difference. Could it be that the vitamin D deficiency slowed down the effect of the progesterone cream? It's really reeking havoc on my every day life. Some days are more intense than others. I'm not sure whether I need to increase the progesterone cream or cut back. Ugh!

Oct 19, 2010
Too much progesterone?
by: Anonymous

I was on the cream form of progesterone for about two weeks and it wasn't doing anything. I slowly increased my dose up to 62.5 mg (I started out at 12.5mg) and it still wasn't doing anything so my doctor put me on the oral form of 100mg. I took it for a few days and still didn't notice any difference so I took 200mg. The next morning I woke-up with severe morning sickness. Today is the second day and it is slowly going away, but I didn't dare take any progesterone last night. Is this sickness due to too much progesterone or could it just be the flu and it just happened to come right after I took the 200mg? This is so hard getting the dosing right. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Oct 20, 2010
TTC after Miscarriage
by: Wray

Hi there Amazing your Gyn didn't test for progesterone, this is almost always low in PCOS. Your symptoms certainly suggest it! IR can cause tiredness too. We do have several pages which would help answer most of your questions, please see PCOS, Pregnancy and Insulin Resistance.
Yes it is safe to use even if you don't have a progesterone deficiency, it's very protective against all the oestrogen mimics found in our food, water, air and the skin care we use. Please see this excellent site Our Stolen Future for more info on these. It is safe to use during conception and pregnancy, in fact it's such a vital hormone for this, that if low it's essential to supplement. The amount you should be using is given on the various pages I've given you. I generally recommend 100-200mg per day, but this is entirely dependant on symptoms. If there is any sign of a problem while pregnant, or if miscarriages have occurred in the past, it is advisable to use it till the placenta has increased progesterone levels substantially. This normally occurs round about the 3-4 month mark. Take care Wray

Oct 21, 2010
Early menopause
by: Wray

Hi Anna It doesn't surprise me your oestradiol levels were low, they are in menopause. Oestradiol is the 'reproductive' oestrogen, highest during our reproductive years. It's made by the granulosa cells in the ovaries by the action of the enzyme aromatase on androstenedione. The conversion first produces oestrone, which is then converted to oestradiol. Small amounts are also produced by the adrenals and the brain. Fat cells are another source. Once menopause is reached there are no active follicles left from which oestradiol can be made in any quantity. Therefore the only sources of oestradiol left are all non-ovarian. Oestrone is the only oestrogen present in any quantity in menopausal women. Fat cells being the main source. The third oestrogen, oestriol, is made primarily by the placenta when a woman is pregnant. It also doesn't surprise me you've put on weight with the HRT, for more info please see our page on HRT. Oestrogen is a mitogen causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells, which as I've said, are also a non-ovarian source of oestrogen. So a vicious cycle begins, and no amount of exercise or good eating will stop it. Oestrogen also causes insulin resistance, which causes weight gain, for more info please see our page on Insulin Resistance. The amount of progesterone you were using appears to be far too low. The reason you put on 3kg in a two month period was because of this. Progesterone initially stimulates oestrogen, so going back on the HRT would add more oestrogen, which would merely ramp up the affect. For more info please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. If you were using a high amount of progesterone, at least 200mg/day, your symptoms would not have come back so harshly. You might even need more to begin with, please see our page on Coming off HRT. You might like to see this page we have on Menopause. Take care Wray


Oct 21, 2010
re:adrenals
by: Wray

Hi there We do have a Graph showing the rise and fall of the hormones involved in our monthly cycle, please scroll down the page a bit to see it. Briefly, on day one of our cycle, which is the first day of bleeding, both progesterone and oestrogen have dropped to their lowest level. Oestrogen starts rising round about day 5 and continues to do so, peaking just before ovulation. Once ovulation takes place it drops, and progesterone rises. Oestrogen also rises again in the luteal phase, but not quite as high as it's previous peak. So the rise in oestrogen during the follicular phase is causing your problems. Many women get this secondary 'PMS' in the follicular phase. As I said in a previous comment to you, if you are having symptoms throughout the month, consider using it daily for 2-3 cycles to stop them, and then follow your cycle again. If oestrogen is high symptoms will be bad, progesterone must be the dominant hormone to feel well. Often this takes time, between 3-6 months in some women. Adjust the amount you use according to your symptoms. When I say daily, I mean through the days you bleed too. Take care Wray

Oct 21, 2010
Starting to feel better
by: Wray

Hi Maria I'm so happy you trusted me to use the high amount, it's only in the beginning stages this is needed. Then reduce slowly till the optimum is found. Not forgetting stress drops levels! If I've understood correctly, you've used 4 tubes in 4 weeks, this would give you about 285mg/day. Unfortunately hot flushes need about 400mg/day for 4-5 days to eliminate them, then reduce slowly. Your high stress levels will not be helping, as the adrenals are using the progesterone to make cortisol. There is some evidence a drop in serotonin levels influences, if not causes hot flushes. You could consider taking tryptophan, the precursor to serotonin. Serotonin is the precursor to melatonin our sleep hormone, so if tryptophan levels are low, sleep will be disrupted. There's more info on our page on Natural Antidepressants. Adding another cream to the Natpro won't affect it adversely, specially if you've used it beforehand. But avoid using one with harsh chemicals or endocrine disruptors in it. For more info on this please see this site Our Stolen Future. And this one too EWG. As progesterone enters the circulation within minutes after applying, it's not really necessary to apply it to the facial hair. I only suggest direct application if pain is a problem, ie migraines, sore joints etc. The fact progesterone helps head hair grow and stops facial hair sounds paradoxical! But it's testosterone causing the hair loss, ie male pattern baldness, and it also causes hair on the face, chest, back, arms and legs to become much thicker, as in men. Progesterone if in high enough amounts suppresses testosterone. But this does not affect libido! In fact there's evidence it's progesterone responsible for this, please see here. Your husband might like to read these papers too, here and here. The normal range for men is 10-100mg/day, but there's little point in using a small amount, so I suggest he tries the 100mg/day initially. It's easy enough to increase or reduce from here. Please warn him about oestrogen dominance! It can occur in men too. It sounds as if your friend's daughter is on the verge of menstruating, progesterone will certainly help. It's very safe, being given to pre-term infants for respiratory distress syndrome. Many mothers use it to help calm the baby and to help them sleep. I put my daughter on it when she was 14, she's still using it and is now 29. Finally it would be wonderful if you did join us all and help spread the word! Take care Wray x

Oct 21, 2010
Very confusing......
by: Wray

Hi Fawn You have been given a rough ride. Progesterone can help endo, it's excessive oestrogen which causes it. The hyst would have sent you into an hormonal turmoil, unless they'd given you progesterone. I'm pleased you had a vitamin D test done, I ask almost everyone to do it, it's such an important nutrient. Incidentally the government and labs give 30ng/ml as the lower end of normal. But the vitamin D specialists say it should be no lower than 50ng/ml. For more info please see the Vitamin D council website. I'm not sure how much you are taking but it should be no less than 5000iu's per day. But for a level of 12ng/ml I would recommend you take at least 10,000iu's per day. And the vit D is not affecting the progesterone, the reverse in fact. A lack of it reduces the benefits of progesterone. I suspect you are not taking enough, and I don't believe the 100mg/day progesterone you are using is enough either. Please try increasing it, I recommend between 100-200mg/day, but you could probably do with the higher end initially. Your symptoms also point to blood sugar imbalances, please see our page on Insulin Resistance for more info. Take care Wray

Oct 21, 2010
Too much progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi there 12.5mg would not have done anything. I don't believe the 62.5mg would have helped much either, and finally oral progesterone is mostly destroyed by the gut and liver. For more info on this please see our page on Progesterone application methods. Progesterone must be used a minimum of twice a day, as levels drop after about 13 hrs. Paradoxical as this might sound, oestrogen causes nausea, not progesterone. But progesterone initially stimulates oestrogen, so the 200mg dose you took would have done just that. It's called oestrogen dominance, it occurs in many women when first using progesterone, for more info please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. I recommend between 100-200mg/day, but in a form that is absorbed well, not oral. For more info please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. I suggest you switch back to the cream, but use enough. But as you have the pills take one in the morning, one at midday and another at night. 300mg/day does help, please see here. I'm not sure what symptoms you have, but this study was done on hot flushes. Please remember that it takes between 3-6 months for progesterone to work. during that time symptoms gradually go, but only if enough is used. Take care Wray

Oct 25, 2010
Confused...Hair Loss
by: T

Hi Wray,

Thank you for your response! Please, see my comments regarding hair loss from Sept. 15th and your answer October 5th.

I tried increasing the dosage of the PG cream to double what I was using - 40 mg morning and 40 mg night. I'm simply too scared to increase any further and quite simply, I'm running out of body parts to put that much cream on.

My hair loss has continued and I honestly don't know what to do. (I've started taking Biotin and Inositol at the recommended dosage.) My question is, if I were to seek out a doctor who would be able to prescribe progesterone, what type of doctor would I look for? Most gynecologists have no clue about progesterone cream and only want to prescribe anti-depressants or bc pills.

2. What exactly is PMDD? Is that an estrogen dominancy or simply a sensitivity to the fluctuations in hormones? Is it treated with progesterone cream?

3. During pregnancy, which hormones are the ones that increase hair growth? Isn't it BOTH estrogen AND progesterone?

4. I notice a lot of hair loss in Days 1-12 or 15 when I'm not taking the PG cream (on my period). How do I stop that? If I'm on the PG cream all the time won't it stop ovulation?

5. Could you recommend some additional books or resources I could read about hormones or this issue?

6. What are your thoughts on Vitex? Would it be beneficial to add it? It seems like it could cause real havoc on the body.

I'm really scared that I'm losing so much hair. But I also have a nightmare with my moods, low self-esteem and sometimes suicidal thoughts when my hormones shift throughout the month.

Please, help!!!!

Thank you so very much!!

Oct 25, 2010
Re: Adrenals
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray. I missed that you responded to my post somehow. Thanks! I really like being able to look at the graph and see the rise and fall of the estrogen/progesterone. I know you say to use it every day which I haven't started doing yet. I have felt so great the past few days--obviously ovulating. Today is day 16 and I haven't even started the cream yet. Is it ok to wait until I have symptoms some months to use it (like day 17,18)??--when life is less stressful, etc. Or wait until a migraine comes on to use it? Last month was a rough month on the progesterone so I am just trying to decide how to use it to benefit me since some months are so different from others. I have been off from work for 2 weeks. What a difference that makes with everything! But I return tomorrow.:(

Sorry to keep bothering you. I have male doctors and this is somthing they just don't really get! Thanks!

Oct 27, 2010
wrinkles??
by: Anonymous

I read somewhere online, can't recall where, but it said the transdermal progesterone cream is good for the face and will help wrinkles! Is that true? if so, would the application be? I know you are not suppose to use the cream every day in the same area.

Oct 29, 2010
Confused...Hair Loss
by: Wray

Hi T Please don't be scared, you really need to increase the amount you are using, as you are only getting 80mg/day. If you are running out of body parts, the strength of the cream is too low. It can be used more than once a day. I also have women using it hourly for severe symptoms, this is an excellent system. The hair loss will continue if you continue to use a low amount, until finally progesterone becomes dominant. It will take many weeks if not months following this method. Although cysteine, inositol and biotin are all helpful, if oestrogen and testosterone are too high, they are not going to have much affect. Doctors who understand progesterone are few and far between. Even endocrinologists who study hormones, are not interested. PMDD used to be called PMS, a term I still prefer. It is treated with progesterone by doctors who understand it's cause. But more often than not the pill is given, which is the last thing that should be used. All contraceptive pills stop ovulation, which means all ovarian production of progesterone stops. The few days prior to bleeding, progesterone drops sharply. If it gets out of balance with oestrogen, PMS results. There seems to be some debate about which hormone increases hair growth, most studies favour oestrogen, as it appears to prolong the anagen or growth phase. And yet oestrogen stimulates prolactin secretion, and prolactin is known to inhibit re-growth of hair. You also point out you loose more hair in the follicular phase, when oestrogen is high, testosterone too. How do you stop it? By using the cream, as I suggested, throughout your cycle. It can stop ovulation if the amount is 200mg/day and over. But are you concerned by that, surely it's better to get rid of the symptoms that are bothering you? It's only for 2-3 months. Dr Dalton has written some excellent books, please see Once a Month and Premenstrual Syndrome and Progesterone Therapy. Vitex does have oestrogenic properties, not what you need more of now. Did I ask you to have a vitamin D test done, a lack of this vitamin reduces the benefits of progesterone. Please see the Vitamin D council website for more info. Vitamin D is essential for hair growth, please see here, here and here. Take care Wray

Oct 29, 2010
Re: Adrenals
by: Wray

Hi there I hope I've answered all your questions in my last comment. But I don't think it's advisable to use the progesterone ad hoc. Each time you stop it oestrogen will rise, symptoms will come back. Then each time you start the progesterone they will get worse, it will be a roller coaster ride. The month will only be rough if you insist on using low amounts, progesterone needs to become the dominant hormone before you'll feel well. The ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be over 600:1. Take care Wray

Oct 29, 2010
wrinkles??
by: Wray

Hi there Yes it is good for wrinkles, please see this study here. You'll notice in the next two studies that oestrogen does not benefit the skin, in spite of what we've been told, see here and here. I have been using progesterone cream on my face twice a day for 14 years, and will continue till I die. I have not found it desensitises the receptor sites. I have yet to find a study that shows this affect either. Besides there are so many oestrogen mimics in our environment now, that we need all the progesterone we can get to counter their affect. Take care Wray

Oct 29, 2010
Very confusing......
by: Anonymous

Thank you Wray for your time and prompt response. This has been a long ride as well as expensive. It seems now days you're better off doing your own research and you have truly enlightened me on the whole issue that I have been dealing with for years. I forgot to mention how much vitamin D I was on. I was taking 50,000iu....one pill per week for 4 months. I did up my progesterone to 200mg as you suggested and I can tell a slight difference already in just three days! I can't tell you what a relief that is! I also have some vitamin D, 10,000iu as use suggested, on order. I will check back in with my progress and I will be discussing my findings with my physician. Again thank you so much.

Oct 31, 2010
Very confusing......
by: Wray

Hi there You are right, it's best to take matters into our own hands, hence this website! There are countless studies done on the affect nutrients can have on so many diseases/syndromes, one wonders why drugs are used, they are more often than not harmful too. 50,000iu's vitamin D will be giving about 7000iu's per day, but it appears more effective if taken daily. I'm so pleased you've ordered the 10,000iu's, I'm sure you'll find this better. Incidentally it's so safe, Vieth reports human toxicity probably begins to occur after chronic daily consumption of approximately 40,000iu's per day, see here.. About 176,000,000 iu's or 440,000 x 400iu capsules is needed to kill a human, we wouldn't be able to consume that much! I'm also so pleased the increase in progesterone has helped in such a short time, I hope it continues to get better and better. It's easy enough to reduce the amount once you feel stable. I would love to hear how you get on. Take care Wray

Nov 01, 2010
Re:Adrenals
by: Anonymous

Ok, so now I know that progesterone needs to be dominant and I am trying to use more cream. But every time I do I am up in the middle of the night, nauseous in the morning, puffy, and irritable. At least that is what happened the past two nights. Now, I probably need to mention that my thyroid is way out of whack. I just had labs done and my tsh is very high. Does that have any impact on how much progesterone to use? And probably the reason I am still feeling so awful. I am planning a major event and it's coming up next month... I just really need to feel good for that. Then if the roller coaster ride continues like this I will deal with it. What can I do for now to not keep feeling worse every month I use the cream? And are you familiar with Progesterall? That's the one I use. Many thanks.

Nov 01, 2010
wrinkles??
by: Anonymous

So, on the wrinkles, how much do you use? And I thought you needed to be careful not to use the cream in the same place every time, to avoid buildup? But you state you use it twice a day? curious to know your dosage and amt. thanks

Nov 02, 2010
Overdosage?
by: Bobbie Jo

My OB has me on 30 Gm Progesterone 40% Cream - 1 gram a day. He says take it every day. We are trying to reduce a 9cm fibroid tumor.

I started taking it right at the end of a very heavy period. Nine days later, I started another very heavy period with fist sized clots.

Is this high of a dosage posing a health risk to me? Will I get blood clots in my legs or brain?

After reading your site, I am hoping that the estrogen battle is just going on and progesterone is going to win soon.

Your thoughts?

Thank you!

Nov 03, 2010
Re:Adrenals
by: Wray

Hi there The symptoms you mention are all caused by excess oestrogen, very similar to the beginning stages of pregnancy. So I don't believe you are using enough. You don't mention how much, but it does need to be high initially, by increasing gradually it will merely take longer to achieve anything. Progesterall is a good cream, it has 16mg progesterone per ml of cream. To get to the 100-200mg/day I suggest you will need to use between 6.25ml to 12.5ml. Or 1 1/4 tsp to 2 1/2tsp of cream. If your thyroid is out of whack you are probably short of vitamin D, please have a test done. For more info please see the Vitamin D council website. Take care Wray

Nov 03, 2010
wrinkles??
by: Wray

Hi there The amount is up to you, it really depends on other symptoms. You'll notice in the study they didn't mention the amount used, only that is was a 2% cream. I'm assuming they probably used 1-2ml, giving 20-40mg/day. This would be fine for the face, if no other symptoms were present, but too low if there are. If you have none at all, I suggest you try the 20-40mg or 1-2ml of a 2% cream on your face to begin with. It's easy enough with a cream to increase or decrease the amount. I have yet to find a study saying build up occurs, in fact the fatty layer beneath the skin is essential for the progesterone to be absorbed. Capillaries running through it pick up the progesterone and deliver it throughout the body, see here. And here for build up. I use progesterone at least twice a day, more if I feel stressed. It's generally about 5ml/day which gives me about 170mg/day progesterone. Currently I've been using 2tsp per day or 330mg/day progesterone as I felt I needed it! Take care Wray

Nov 03, 2010
Overdosage?
by: Wray

Hi Bobbie Joe I'm delighted to hear your obgyn is using progesterone to help you, very good news. But I'm a bit puzzled by the figures you've given me. 30g progesterone is 1 oz! And a 40% cream? It's impossible to dissolve that much in a cream, even 10% is difficult. Or are there 30g of cream in the container and it's a 4% cream? In which case 1g will give you 40mg/day progesterone. If this is the case, it's no where near enough to reduce a fibroid. You would need somewhere in the region of 200mg/day progesterone. We do have a page on Fibroids, please read through it. Starting the progesterone when you did would cause the cycle to be disrupted, it often does this. It would have been better to have started it at ovulation, and then continued using it through your next period and beyond. Although even this won't guarantee no disruption, but it does settle down, and will come when it wants, so can be unexpected. The clotting is a good sign, it means the uterus is being cleaned of old blood. If you could come back to me on the actual amount you are using it would help. But it does have to be about 200mg, maybe more to help. It does take time too, first the oestrogen needs to be suppressed. This is stimulating the fibroid to grow. Once the level is down, only then can the fibroid be gradually absorbed back into the body. Take care Wray

Nov 05, 2010
Weird Dosage
by: Bobbie Jo

Thank you Wray for your encouraging reply!

The link you provided eased much tension. Thank you so much.

Yes, that's what the prescription is. I'm looking at it now: "30Gm Progesterone 40% Cream". I asked this Obgyn to help me try progesterone and I get the feeling he is in unchartered water.

He said the compounding pharmacy would be surprised with the dosage and they were. With your explanation, I see why. Ugghh! Why can't anyone but you shoot straight.

So... what to do.

I did talk to the woman who owns the compounding pharmacy yesterday, and she suggests continuing 1 Gram of the cream in the mornings, and she's trying to get me a 200mg progesterone lozenge for evenings (I believe she said 200 mg). The doc has yet to reply to her request.

And, since I started on the progesterone at the wrong time, do you think I should stop and wait until later in my cycle? I just stopped passing fist sized blood clots today.

You are voice of hope in the wilderness.

I have been in bed for 2 days. My poor little children and family are being supportive, but the progesterone has me so sleepy and the blood loss has me with low energy. I am following your diet suggestion and and taking 50mg iron, vitamin C and multivitamin.
The pharmacists yesterday also suggested these things I started taking:
B-10 two times a day
Adrenal PX Balance Capsule two times a day
30 MI DHEA 40 MG/ML Drop 2 x a Day
Vitamin D3 one time a day

Feeling much better tonight.

God Bless,
Bobbie Jo




Nov 05, 2010
one more thing
by: Bobbie Jo

I just found your info page on who you are and your story and what you sell. I had googled "Can I use too much progesterone?" and this page popped up. I couldn't initially, easily find who you were or what you were about, and now I'm so glad I did!

You are an awesome person, a benefit to humanity. Thank you for sharing all you have learned and your cream with the world.
And thank you for answering my questions Wray.

If I may suggest - you should put on every single page a link to your page that tells your story and the history of your product. Otherwise, I couldn't figure out why you were doing this.

But now I understand and hope to be a customer if I can get on a maintenance schedule and not need to big gun dosages.

One more thing - reading your info, I never felt like you were out to just make a buck (like ALL of the other progesterone sites I've seen), but you want to help people.

Thank you so much! I pray your business will be richly blessed.

I look forward to your reply to my last post.

Bobbie
44 yr old
Wife, also mom of an 8 yr old girl, 10 yr old boy

Nov 05, 2010
Re:Adrenals
by: Anonymous

I really must not be getting enough. I was probably only using 1/8 of tsp of cream morning and night. I will try going up to the 100mg and see how that goes. How long do you stay at the high dose (you said initially?) I think this is my 5th month on progesterone. I started with capsules the first month and then switched to cream.
Last I had my vitamin D levels checked they were a 55 I think...they were at a 12 a couple years ago and now I take 4000iu drops every morning. Thanks for all your help.

Nov 07, 2010
Too much progesterone...
by: T

Hi Wray, I've been following your page for a long time and have found interesting and sometimes helpful information...except with progesterone dosages recommended. I'm 42 years old with hypothyroidism (in treatment for 2 years and finally in balance). This past July, I finally reached "set-point" with thyroid levels and felt/looked really good. 3-4 mo. prior, my hair loss had halted and hair was once again growing in nicely without that dry crispy feel - my outer eyebrows even started growing back! Amazing!

Then, about 1 month ago, my hair became extremely dry and started falling out again plus my face/back started breaking out badly and my doc told me my progesterone levels were too high (I'd been taking 12.5mg of bio-identical progest (capsule) twice daily for a long time with good results) and wanted to start me on 18.75mg daily. Until I received the new Rx, I took (1) 12.5mg progesterone every other day and (2) on the days in between and felt "ok", my skin calmed down and the hair loss, though it didn't stop, did slow. Then, got my period and, after 3 days, felt great! Skin looks fantastic & hair felt good. Day 10-I began the 18.75mg daily and immediately begin to feel like crap-face/back breaking out again, constipation, bloat, achy, tender breasts - all the common stuff. So, I'm considering going back to 1) 12.5mg progest every other day and (2) on the days in between.

**I have been on higher dosages of progest in the past and ALWAYS with horrible symptoms so I seriously doubt I need a higher dose but would love to hear your take on my current state. Interestingly enough, I have a great pharmacist who told me that when the thyroid is hypo it will "steal" from other hormone production in the body and as the thyroid level is stabilized, the "stealing" halts...sound familiar or logical?
Thanks for reading my long entry and I look forward to your feedback.
-TR

Nov 08, 2010
Weird Dosage
by: Wray

Hi Bobbie Jo Bless you for the kind words, no I'm not out to make a quick buck! Over half the answers I give are to women (men too) who use other creams etc, I'm happy to help them too. Back to your dosage, if they really can get 400mg into 1g of cream, I take my hat off to them. But I have my doubts! Even if it was an ointment, with no water, they would struggle. So assuming they have achieved this, you are getting 400mg/day progesterone. Therefore I wouldn't bother with the lozenge, you're getting more than enough from the cream. Besides lozenges are not very effective, please see this page we have on Progesterone application methods. I suggest you use half the cream in the morning and half at night. I think it best to continue using the progesterone, it will be more disruptive stopping and starting again. Good news about more clots coming out. Vitamin B10 is normally called PABA, I'm at a loss as to why you've been given it, see here. Maybe it will make sense to you. The adrenal balance is good, full of adaptogens for stress. Please avoid the DHEA, it can cause cysts and cancer, see here, here and here. And the D3, how much? The minimum dose should be 5000iu's per day. For more info see the Vitamin D council website. I'm still puzzled by the cream you've been given! Please ask the pharmacist how much progesterone is in 1g, that will help me. The other ingredients too would help, I can't see how it can be a cream. Rather an ointment, with no water. I've answered both your comments in one. Take care Wray

Nov 08, 2010
Re:Adrenals
by: Wray

Hi there The 1/4tsp will be giving you about 20mg/day, this will merely ramp up the oestrogen. It's no wonder you have all those symptoms. If you do increase the amount, please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first. This could happen, even though you've been using progesterone for 5 months. It occurs when first starting it and when increasing the amount. You're one of the few people I've asked who've come back with a vitamin D level within the range of 50-100ng/ml. Excellent news! Interestingly a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. Take care Wray

Nov 09, 2010
Too much progesterone...
by: Wray

Hi TR Increasing the amount of progesterone caused it to ramp up the oestrogen. For more info on this please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. This can happen when first starting it, and when increasing it. It's an indication your oestrogen is too high, this doesn't surprise me. Oestrogen slows the thyroid down, so you probably don't have thyroid issues at all, but excess oestrogen issues. This doesn't surprise me either, most of us have. It's everywhere, in our food, water, air and the skin care we all use. For more info please see the website Our Stolen Future. Excess oestrogen causes a multitude of problems, hair loss is just one of them. 90% of pregnant women have lovely hair, the result of high levels of progesterone. All those other symptoms you've given, the face/back breaking out, constipation, bloat, achy, tender breasts, are all caused by excess oestrogen. It's a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells. It's known to cause inflammation and water retention. All this causes the symptoms you've given. Progesterone on the other hand is an excellent diuretic and anti-inflammatory, so good it's now given via IV transfusion to brain trauma victims. That you responded so dramatically to such a low dose of progesterone, shows how high your oestrogen must be. Oral progesterone is the least affective delivery system, most is destroyed in the gut and liver. For more info please see our page on Progesterone application methods. I don't understand about the thyroid stealing from other hormone production, I'm not sure what it would steal. The pituitary makes TSH, which stimulates the thyroid to make T4 and T3. The base materials the thyroid uses to make these hormones are iodine and the amino acid tyrosine, selenium is a co-factor. Stress causes the adrenals to make excess cortisol, this causes rT3 to increase. This hormone slows the thyroid down, causing a lowered body temperature, fatigue, anxiety, weight gain, hair loss and more. All symptoms of hypothyroidism. Stress also causes progesterone levels to drop, as the adrenals rob other sources of progesterone to make cortisol. So a vicious cycle starts. A lack of progesterone, iodine, tyrosine, selenium, protein in the diet, all contribute to slow the thyroid. But above all is a lack of vitamin D, please have a test done. If low, parathyroid hormone increases, this slows the thyroid down. For more info please see the Vitamin D council website. Take care Wray

Nov 11, 2010
thanks for all the info!!
by: Gina in MI

Wray, I have been reading your comments here for 6 months and want to thank you so much for all the advice you give. I found you after googling when I woke up one night in April with a drenched shirt!

My history - I am now 35 years old. I spent most of my adulthood between ages 20-31 on Birth control and having 4 babies - I thought my cycle was perfect! When I was 28 I was diagnosed with an overactive thyroid, I went on a low dose of something for a few years and all my thyroid levels leveled out and continue to come back normal. After going off the birth control pill for good 4.5 years ago - I have never felt that my cycle ever got back to normal. a bit of spotting after intercourse and a varying of months when I get my period 2 days early, then sometimes a day late, etc.

This past April - when I woke up with the sweats I found you and started taking the Prgesterone cream on my next cycle day 14. I was probably not putting enough on in the beginning - but it did take away the extremeness of the sweating, I still had the bloating and swelling and painful breasts, skin and hair issues, but the cycle regulated.

I am very active and a very healthy eater which I think attributes to the fact that I am not overweight or tired, if I put on a few pounds I know how to diet and lose it. I do have loss of hair and thinning in the front, and just overall bad hair, the face and back acne - but since upping my dose a few months ago and rubbing the cream directly on the breasts, I feel much better with the breast soreness and swelling - my only 2 big symptoms remaining are a clear mucus in one nostril - constantly. And a feeling of thin skin in my hands - like after 5 minutes in the shower I feel like a prune.

I am also now taking Vit D. Is there anything else I can do? The last few months I still get my period 2 days early - which I thought I read here is still a sign of too much estrogen. And usually around day 24 and 25 of my cycle I still have a minor sweat at night - again this points me to the excess estrogen still?? I can't imagine putting more cream on. Currently in the morning I am putting it on my breasts, chest and forearms and the evening my breasts, inner thigh, face and back of knees. Probably a total of 80 mg/day - And at times throughout the day I can feel that it is not all the way absorbed - I can usually rub some slick off in my morning shower. I don't think I have anymore skin to cover in a day. I am only 5'4" and 118.

Any other advice would be great, am I on the right track?

Nov 12, 2010
Follow-up to Wray's response...
by: TR

Hi Wray, first, thanks for taking the time to respond to my question... I do appreciate it.

Second, I am truly confused now because there is such a huge gap in the information you left me and the protocol my doctor, who is one of the top specialists in Women's Health and thyroid issues as well as being a very open-minded physician. You are telling me I need to take more progesterone and, if you recall in my initial comment, I've been on progesterone for over 2 years and the higher the dose, the worse the problems have ALWAYS been. Also as stated, I did fantastically on 12.5mg twice daily for more than 4 months and then, all of a sudden it stops working. You say I don't have enough and my doc says I'm not tolerating the dosage and that my body is converting the progesterone into testosterone which is causing the acne/bloat, blah, blah, blah. How do I get to what's really happening Wray? Thanks VERY much, in advance, for your response - I truly look forward to it.

Nov 13, 2010
thanks for all the info!!
by: Wray

Hi Gina I'm pleased the info on the site has helped. I'm also pleased you've stopped the BC pill, it causes many problems, not least when you come off it. Please see this page we have on Contraceptives. You have all the symptoms of Peri-menopause. But you're too young, unless your mother went into early menopause. So it's probably the after effects of the BC pill. Another factor to take into consideration, from about age 35 we begin to have anovulatory cycles, which means no progesterone is made. Therefore there is nothing to counter the effects of oestrogen which is causing your symptoms. I'm not sure of your cycle length, if it's 28 days, then using the cream on day 14 is fine, but not if it's longer or shorter. It's difficult for me to answer about the early period without knowing the length. To prevent this, increase the amount you're using during the last 2-3 days, more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Hair loss is an indication your testosterone is too high, another problem caused by the BC pill, so is the Acne. Please read through this page, it explains why it occurs. I'm not sure what cream you are using, but I've recently been using 2tsp per day, which gives me 330mg/day progesterone. My nails were becoming thin and breaking, a sign of low progesterone (extra stress!). I'm only 5'3" and it goes in very well and within minutes of applying there is certainly none left to come off. If you feel you need more, you could apply it more than twice a day too, I have some women using it hourly for severe symptoms. Very pleased you're taking the vitamin D, I'm not sure if you've seen the info on the Vitamin D council website. Please look through it if not. The vitamin D will help your skin, so will progesterone, see here. You could consider taking 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, 2000mg/day inositol and 2-3mg/day biotin. The hair, nails and skin comprise about 14% cysteine, it makes all three very strong. Inositol is often called the anti-alopecia vitamin. Take care Wray

Nov 13, 2010
Follow-up to Wray's response...
by: Wray

Hi TR It is of course my opinion, and not that of many people, least of all most doctors! I've been using progesterone and helping women with it for 14 years now. I've read hundreds of papers about it, and have come to understand some of it's benefits, but I'm always finding something new. I've also come to realise through usage and other peoples problems with it, that too low an amount often causes more problems than previously experienced. The amount you are using now is miniscule, I don't know if you've had a chance to read the papers on the page I gave you? About how oral progesterone is mostly destroyed, some doctors say by as much as 80-90%. This means you are getting about 1.25-2.5mg/day. To give you an example, my nails became very weak recently (extra stress!) so I've been applying 2tsp of cream which is giving me 330mg/day progesterone. But it's all absorbed. My nails are now very strong again, it didn't take long, maybe two weeks. Very low amounts of progesterone stimulate oestrogen, you'll find papers on the page on oestrogen dominance I gave you. This can keep a woman in a permanent state of excess oestrogen. You say the progesterone suddenly stopped working, did you have an increase in stress levels? Stress causes progesterone levels to drop, which causes symptoms to return. We do have a page on Acne you might like to look at. You might like to see this page here. I've been trying to help someone increase the amount of progesterone she was using. It gives a good indication of the ups and downs of using progesterone! I'm not sure how to advise you further, I don't want you to fall out with your doctor who sounds good, you could try stopping the progesterone to see if you feel any different. Why were you using it, you only mentioned you had hypothyroid problems. Please have a vitamin D test done, this really impacts on the thyroid, as low vitamin D increases parathyroid hormone, which slows it down. I wish I could help you further. Take care Wray

Nov 15, 2010
Fibroid lump gone
by: Bobbie Jo

Hello Wray!

I have some news. I have been using the progesterone - about 400mg a day, for heavy bleeding and a grapefruit sized fibroid (I'm the one with the strange cream prescription - 30 GM in 40%, which the pharmacists promises is accurate, I think she said I'm getting 400mg in a gram. Does that make sense? They say their equipment allows them to do that. If you are curious and want to call, email me for their info. )

The news: I have read that to reduce this grapefruit sized fibroid you need to eat better (as you have said) and reduce the stress in your life, find things you enjoy doing, focus on positive, etc.

I've been working on this, and I've been doing 400 MG progesterone for 3 months. But I still had this large lump in my uterus.

I know how much negative emotions can lead to this problem. I learned how much last Friday. I met with a pastor and we prayed for me to be released from negative feelings such as anger and fear, and also that I would forgive certain people who had hurt me all the way back since childhood. He prayed for a healing of the fibroid. During the session, I started flowing really heavy and had to go to the bathroom 4 times to pass huge clots. That night - no lump. At all. I'm serious. There still may be something there, but I can not feel that ball that's been there for months.

It is probably shocking to us how much of our negative emotions are causing our hormone imbalances.

I am still using the Progesterone - just to help the Big Guy with the healing :) God works through that I believe, and through people like you.

I AM still bleeding, but it's a light bleeding ... like, a normal period. This would make it week 4 of bleeding, with one of those weeks just being spotting. I will continue with 400mg progesterone a day.

My question: Do I ever stop for a few days on the progesterone? I have read several things, including to start it 14 days into the cycle then stop the day before menstruation. But my OB says take it all the time. My pharmacists says take at least a 3 day break. What you say?? You seem to have the most wisdom and experience on this than anyone.

Also, my plan is, once I stop bleeding to go to 200mg a day - your stuff of course.

Hope you are well. I look forward to your reply. Bobbie.

Nov 15, 2010
thanks!
by: Gina in MI

MY mother did not go into early menopause, and yes I do feel too young for this - but what do I expect when I fed my body BCP for 1/3 of my life!! oh what I wish I had known back then! Wray I use the Emerita Pro-gest cream. My cycle was always 28 days long. The last 3 years I would get a random 26 day period and then it seemed the next month it would be 30 days, then it would be a few months of 28 and then 26 again, and on and on, very random, but mostly 28 - with a few months of 26 days. This was all happening the years after I went off the pill and had not used any progesterone cream yet. Since starting the cream in April I have had only 1 - 28 day cycle, one 26 day and most often 27 days. The last 3 months straight have been 27 days long, I always start the cream on day 14. What schedule should I be following?

Also would love feedback on the inositol. I read that the inositol is used to counteract depression and anxiety and honestly I feel great in my mood and personality and am a little scared that it would somehow alter that? What have you found? What is it about the inositol that helps hair, or is it the combo of the 3 supplements?

Thanks again!

Nov 16, 2010
progesterone and pregnancy
by: Anonymous

I was just wondering if it is safe to take progesterone while you are pregnant. I am thinking of becoming pregnant again, but when I am pregnant I get morning sickness so bad. I can hardly eat or drink anything, I loose at least 30 lbs. The second and third month are the worst, getting a little better after that but never really much better. It is hard to eat the whole pregnancy. I have heard some people say that progesterone can help with this. I did have my progesterone tested and it is really low. I was wondering if estrogen dominance could be causing the morning sickness to be so bad. I would love to try anything that could make me feel somewhat better so that it would be easier to think of getting pregnant again. Thank you in advance Wray!

Nov 16, 2010
Help! How much should I be taking
by: Amy

Wray, I have seen how many people that you have helped on here and decided to give it a try and get your opinion. I am 33 years old and have never had a normal cycle. It would go anywhere from 19-65 days. I was diagnosed with PCOS about 5 years ago. About 2 months ago I went in and had my hormones tested because of my irregular periods, terrible PMS, major mood swings, getting tired around 3:00 everyday, etc. My spit test came back with my progesterone level at 25L when 75-270 is the normal range. My doctor put me on some progesterone and it wasn't helping much. He has been slowly increasing it. I am now at 300mg pill a day. I take 100mg in the morning and 200mg at night. It has helped my cycle get more regular. Well, at least it was until a couple weeks ago when I was only on 200mg and I started spotting and it seemed as if I had another period only a week after my last one. That is why my doctor upped my dose to 300mg. That seems to be helping for now with the spotting. I still don't think it is helping a whole lot with my mood swings and not sure about the PMS yet. It seemed like it was helping with the tiredness, but then again today I was tired again around 3:00. Do you think that 300mg is enough? I did have a reaction when I started on the 200mg. I am sure that it was in response to estrogen dominance. But that only lasted a couple days and is gone now. I see that you like the cream form of progesterone better. How much of that would you suggest that I be on?
Also, since I am only 33 and may still want more children, how am I suppose to be taking it? Am I suppose to be taking it the whole month or do I stop over my period. And if so, do I stop it all together for that week of my period, or do I just take less that week?

Sorry, one more thing. I also have very fibrocystic breasts. Can progesterone help with that?

Thank you so much for your help! It is so hard trying to figure out the dosing. I really would like it to help with my major mood swings and stuff but I am worried to take to much.

Nov 17, 2010
Fibroid lump gone
by: Wray

Hi Bobbie Jo Yes, a 40% cream would contain 400mg/g, which is why I questioned it! Now my curiosity is piqued, I'm going to see if I can do it too! I'll get back to you if I get stuck, but I don't think they would give away trade secrets. I rarely give talks, but if I do I base it all on stress, I believe it's behind all our ills. Stress of any kind leads to oxidative stress, (ie free radicals fly around damaging cells) this is in turn leads to inflammation, and this leads to all manner of problems! All the recent papers coming out now are mentioning oxidative stress. Be it on cancer, heart disease, poly cystic ovaries, ageing, it matters not. Whether it?s mental, emotional or physical, from environmental poisons, toxic skin care, particularly suncreens, processed food or drink, or malnutrition, stress causes the body to react in the same way. The hormones cortisol, adrenaline and noradrenaline are released. The 3 stress hormones. These shut the body down to deal with the 'danger', we react automatically, ie take flight or fight. But now there is no danger, just daily, never sending stressors, some minor, some major. The stress hormones cause the heart to race, so BP goes up, the rennin-angiotensin-aldosterone system is activated to raise blood volume, so BP goes up, angiotensin causes blood vessels to constrict, so BP goes up, aldosterone causes sodium to be drawn into the tissues, which causes water to be retained, so BP goes up, glycogen (stored glucose) is released by the liver to supply extra energy to cope. But excess glycogen increases blood fats. And now we?re on angiotensin inhibitors to relax blood vessels, statins to lower cholesterol, beta blockers to calm a racing heart, diuretics to reduce oedema, antidepressants to prevent panic! So what you did could not have been more healing. The first thing to do is remove the stress. Difficult, but not impossible, it often means changing, which many find hard. It's often challenging too, particularly if we have to forgive past wrongs, but forgiveness heals. It doesn't surprise me in the least to hear your 'lump' has gone, and I'm overjoyed it has! I agree with your OB, you are bleeding continually. I've found it vital to continue with the progesterone until it stops. Then and only then you can follow a cycle again. See this page we have on How to use progesterone cream. It explains how to start the cycle going again. You've been on a high amount of progesterone, whatever you do reduce slowly till you find the optimum. You might find initially you need more than 200mg, just go slowly! Do not suddenly drop the amount, symptoms can come back. Bless you for the kind words, and for wanting to try our cream. But if you're happy with the one you're using there's no need to change. And please let me know how you get on. Take care Wray


Nov 18, 2010
thanks!
by: Wray

Hi Gina I can't agree with you more about contraceptives in any form, bar the copper T. This is but one reason for this web site, so people can make informed decisions. I now understand about not being able to put on enough cream! The one you're using is not very strong, so you would have to use a great deal of cream to get the amount I suggest. I can only repeat about using it more than twice a day. The reason your cycle was always 28 days was the pill, it forces all women into the same cycle, whether their natural cycle is 21 or 35 days. It can vary as much as this amongst women. Your current cycle averages about 27 days, so starting the cream on day 14 is fine. The minor sweats you say you get just prior to your period, could be resolved by adding extra progesterone those few days. This should help with the cycle length too. In fact any time you feel soreness in your breasts, bloating, sweats etc, just use some cream. It doesn't matter what time of day it's used, just use it! Inositol is an amazing vitamin, I take 4000mg/day. It increases the action of insulin and decreases insulin resistance. It has a calming affect, helps in combating depression, panic attacks, mood swings, obsessive-compulsive disorder, bipolar disorder and anxiety. Helps reduce cholesterol levels, hardening of the arteries, removes fat from the liver. Improves ovulation, decreases serum androgen concentrations, blood pressure, and plasma triglyceride concentrations in polycystic ovary syndrome. Weight loss has been observed in patients taking it. High losses occur in diabetes. Used for diabetic neuropathy, insomnia and hair growth. It has broad spectrum anti cancer activity, by interfering with key pathways in malignancy to inhibit cell proliferation, cell-cycle progression, metastasis, invasion, and angiogenesis and to induce apoptosis. The papers I've found show it is preventative too. It's interesting about hair growth, primarily because it increases the action of insulin and decreases insulin resistance. Excess insulin stimulates androgen production, this causes hair loss, increased sebum production, acne and insulin resistance. All symptoms which occur in poly cystic ovaries, one paper suggesting men suffering from hair loss, have the male equivalent of PCO, see here. All three supplements help, but the inositol reverses the symptoms mentioned above. So inositol won't adversely affect your current good mood, and can only give benefit. Take care Wray

Nov 18, 2010
thank you again!
by: Gina in MI

Thank you again Wray for all the suggestions! I just calculated my cream and yikes my Emerita only has 1.6% progesterone concentration compared to the 3.33% you have here - I just placed an order for yours!! It will be nice not to slather so much on! how many mg would you suggest I use?

I will go pick up the supplements for the hair - thanks for the explanation!!

Nov 18, 2010
Help! How much should I be taking
by: Wray

Hi Amy Yes I do prefer a cream, it can be used anywhere, injections and suppositories are good too. These three get absorbed well, oral progesterone doesn't. Most of it is destroyed in the gut and liver, for more info please see Progesterone application methods. You are only getting about 60mg/day from the 300mg you are taking. I take it they are caps with oil and progesterone inside? If so, I suggest you use them as suppositories or pessaries from now on, I think you'll find a far greater benefit. You should find relief within 2-3 months, sometimes it can take as long as 6 months when a low amount is used. But the 300mg is good. If used in the vagina, the progesterone enters the uterus within minutes. I only recommend using progesterone daily if symptoms are bad, as yours appear to be. So try the caps in your vagina instead, and continue on a daily regime until you find benefit. Then you can follow your cycle again, for info on how to do this please see our page on How to use progesterone. You are correct about the reaction, progesterone does stimulate oestrogen initially, for more on this please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. I think you'll find a reaction when switching to using them in your vagina, as more is being absorbed. We do have a page on PCOS. Please read through it, as it gives info on the progesterone, plus nutrients which help. Progesterone is excellent for fibrocystic breasts, see here, here and here. I usually recommend rubbing the cream on them, but you could always open the cap and take out the oil to rub on instead. You say you might want more children, please look at our page on Pregnancy. Take care Wray

Nov 19, 2010
Re:Adrenals
by: Anonymous

Please help Wray! I used alot more progesterone right before my period like you said. I have a better few days leading up to the bleeding. I stopped the cream on day 28--started bleeding Day 30. I had my period for about 8-9 days with spotting for the last few days of it. Now at days 10 & 11 I have so much fluid retention. I am in so much pain around my jaw, shoulders & neck from the fluid and my eyes are swollen/puffy. I thought I read somewhere that you shouldn't use progesterone until you ovulate which is usually about day 14 for me. Is this estrogen dominance because I used so much more cream before my period?? I need a quick fix. I have a major event coming up in a week that I planned and have to attend. I don't want to be feeling this awful:(
Also, I wanted to test progesterone via saliva. What day should I do that?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Angelique

Nov 20, 2010
thank you again!
by: Wray

Hi Gina Yes, as I said it's not very strong, so you would have difficulty in putting on a high amount! You said you were currently using about 80mg/day, this seems to have helped you, so I'm not sure if you need too much more. Only you will know that, so I suggest increasing to 100mg/day, about 3ml of cream. See how you get on with that, if symptoms still bother you, increase again until you find the optimum. Please remember stress drops progesterone levels, so do dark winter days, which most of us forget or don't know. Interesting, but vitamin D also drops during winter, and low vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. So if symptoms return increase the amount you're using. It's excellent for the face too, so rub some there, see here. Glad the info on the hair supps helped! Take care Wray

Nov 20, 2010
Re:Adrenals
by: Wray

Hi Angelique I'm pleased you had a few better days before bleeding. The extra progesterone you used wouldn't have caused the water retention, stopping it has, as oestrogen is now rising again. Oestrogen causes water retention, progesterone is such an excellent diuretic and anti-inflammatory about 1200mg/day is now given via IV transfusion to brain trauma victims. This is to prevent the oedema and inflammation that occurs. Please see the Graph we have on this page. It shows how oestrogen rises sharply prior to ovulation. I do think following a cycle is best if you have one, ie to use progesterone from ovulation. But if symptoms are severe, I always think there should be eliminated first. It's easy enough to regulate the cycle once they've gone, see How to use progesterone cream. I can only suggest you start the progesterone again now, it might cause your cycle to be disrupted, ie you could start bleeding after a few days, but it will get rid of the water retention. Please make sure you use sufficient, it seemed the amount you were using was helping you. And rub it where you have pain, ie your jaw, shoulders and neck, over your eye lids too. In fact progesterone is very good for the face, see here. The day progesterone should be tested is ±7 days after ovulation or before bleeding. Progesterone rises to a peak mid luteal phase, you can see this on the graph too. As you are using supplemental progesterone, the level they'll find will be high, particularly if you have a saliva test. Don't be alarmed by this, or allow others to make you alarmed! We have our cream tested regularly by a naturopath in the UK, she's always delighted by the results. You can see on this page how high progesterone can get, see Saliva Tests. It often goes often much higher, see here. Take care Wray

Nov 23, 2010
Testosterone
by: Leana

Hi wray, thanks for devoting all this time and saying stuff over and over again! You're helping so many people!! Thank you.
I have a question too. I'm on progesterone cream 3% 1 ml a day for the last 14 days. If my cycle due to low levels of progesterone and cysts. The level went up already after 3 months so I must be doing something right. The md I'm seeing gave me now 2 md oral testosterone as that was still low. I'm 42 and the graphic on zrt result was 22. I'm not comfortable taking the testosterone. What's your advise on that? My ratio pg/e2 saliva is 57 now, it was 9 ! Estradiol is 1.5 was 3.3 and progesterone saliva was 31 and now 86.
Also I'm soooo bloated it hurts and this is going on a while now. Could it have something to do with the progesterone? And last my md suggested to use 1/2 a ML for days 7 to 14 an the again for 14 days 1 ML. She said that it was needed to get my leeks faster to 'normal'. Thanks for all the advise you can give me. Appreciate it very much!

Nov 24, 2010
Spellcheck?
by: Leana

I'm sorry for previous message, the iPhone does word correction that doesn't make sense. Here some clarity:

I'm on 3% progesterone 1ml daily for the last 14 days of my cycle. Doctor now wants me to start on day 7 with half that dose till day 14 and the the full dose till day 28. As I was doing up to now. Do u agree to start day 7 Half a dose? And she wants me on testosterone under the tong pills of 2mg as my level on the zrt test showed too low for my age. I'm hesitant about testosterone pls advise. And since I'm so bloated all the time, have you had any experience with digestive enzymes? Could that help me?

Sorry again for my hasty previous post full of errors. Thank you for your advise !!! Happy thanksgiving to you and family!

Dec 03, 2010
Testosterone
by: Wray

Hi Leana Thanks for the corrections, although I could understand the gist of it! Firstly I don't believe you're using enough progesterone, 1 ml of a 3% cream will give you only 30mg progesterone, I recommend between 100-200mg, dependant on symptoms. This is the reason you're bloating, oestrogen causes water retention, progesterone is an excellent diuretic. Please see this page we have on Oestrogen Dominance for an explanation. Although you say your ratio is now 57, from saliva tests we run, I've found to feel well the ratio should be 600:1 or over. Please see the results for some Saliva Tests. This level was achieved after using a 100mg for a month. Using such a low amount of progesterone from day 7 won't stop you ovulating, but I feel will only make you more bloated. It really is essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. You might like to read this thread here, it's quite long, but it shows what a low amount of progesterone does! I don't believe any woman needs more testosterone. Believe it or not, we make more androgens each month than oestrogen. These are converted in the ovaries to oestrogen by the enzyme aromatase. It only needs one month of anovulation and LH increases, this stimulates the secretion of androgens from the thecal cells. You are now in, or about to enter peri-menopause, when anovulation increases. The above explanation is the reason peri-menopausal women get increasing evidence of excess testosterone, ie facial hair, scalp hair loss, adult acne, oily skin. So although your test shows 22, it's still within range. I would keep it that low! These are the ZRT reference ranges.....
Female all ages 16?55 pg/ml
Female ages 16?30 18?55 pg/ml
Female ages >30 16?47 pg/ml
Digestive enzymes are good, but I don't believe that's your problem, I feel it's a lack of progesterone in ratio to the oestrogen. If you have cysts this is evidence your oestrogen is high. Please consider increasing the amount of progesterone you're using, but before you do please read that page on oestrogen dominance. This can occur when using more progesterone. You might like to read our page on Peri-menopause too. Thanks for the kind words, and I hope your Thanksgiving was fun! Take care Wray

Dec 04, 2010
Increase p- cream
by: Leana

Thank you Wray for your help!!! Testosterone is out the door;) was already not comfortable taking it, so you just confirmed it for me! Thanks! About the level of p-cream. I have some questions; if my saliva tests show it did go up over the last 3 months that I'm using it, isn't that a sign it is working? Why up the dose if my levels are getting better with 30 mg?

If I would up my cream to let's say about 100mg a day.
How would I do that with my 3%/1ml cream. Just use more ml on my body? 2x a day. Or increase the percentage of progesterone in the cream by ordering new stuff?

And I'm still having my cycle so should I then just stay on the last 14 days of my cycle? Is your cream NatPro higher percentage in progesterone? If so I will change to that. The cream I have from compound pharmacy is not absorbing very well. So if I have to put more on my body the absorbing will be worse... I read alot on this website and I have decided to fire my wellness anti aging doctor;) you make alot more sense, with back up from proven articles and research. Oh and another question.; do I stay on the higher dose forever or do I eventually gradually lower to ?? Thank so much for your help. My day 7 is Monday so I will start with your advise. Unless you suggest to keep starting on day 14. I appreciate your help very much. I'm very thankful for this website.

Dec 08, 2010
Please Help!!!
by: Anonymous

I am 45 years old and have tried using natural progesterone cream in the past after reading Dr. Lee's book. From reading some of the post on this website, it sounds like I was possibly not using enough. I get Extremely sore breasts for about ten days before my period. Periods are regular at about thirty days apart.
Also, I get serious water retention, to the point it hurts to bend my fingers. I recently purchased some phytoestrogen cream, hoping this would give me better results than the progesterone cream. My chest hurts so badly right now, it is just as bad as when I was pregnant years ago. I have only experienced very minor hot flashes/night sweats. I am absolutely miserable a couple weeks before my period. What would you recommend for my situation? Also, my daughter, who is nineteen years old has terrible spells of crying/depression for the two weeks before every cycle. Could progesterone help her as well? She has tried lots of natural things from St. Johns wart to vitamins, but nothing has helped. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my questions. Any advice I could get would be greatly appreciated.

Dec 08, 2010
Fibroid Issue
by: Anonymous

Dear Wray - I was hoping that the progesterone and releasing from negative thought/past had made my fibroid go away. The lump I had disappeared. I went in for a check and the fibroid had actually grown so large that it moved up and inward. I contacted the HERS foundation for advice. They try to help women save their uterus'. The founder told me to get off of the progesterone because it was making the fibroid grow. She sent me some medical documents if you want to review. Just send me an email.

But, I would say I'm discouraged, but I'm trying not to be. I saw doc #6 today and it looks like a hysterectomy will be my healing. I do still think that this fibroid (which is 11x10x9cm) was caused by a toxic environment, food and negative thinking; toxic thoughts. So addressing those things will prevent future problems.

Just wanted to give you an update. I understand if you do not post. I do expect I will need to continue with the progesterone after surgery. Blessings, Bobbie.

Dec 11, 2010
Fibroid Issue
by: Wray

Hi Bobbie I would be intrigued to see those medical documents, as I've seen none which indicate progesterone could cause cells to proliferate, the opposite in fact. Oestrogen is the mitogenic hormone, not progesterone. If I'm right you've been using the progesterone for 4 months now? What does the OB who gave it to you say? Please don't give up on him yet, you mention seeing a 6th doctor. I'm inclined to think the growth could have been due to the excess oestrogen you had. There would have been an initial stimulatory phase when first using the progesterone. Fibroids take time to develop and time to regress, please don't rush into the hyst. Unless you are bleeding heavily or it's cancerous. I did mention oxidative stress to you, but I didn't give you the nutrients which you could take to reverse this. I just went through the list you were on, the PABA puzzling me, and the DHEA alarming me, do hope you've stopped that. Oxidative stress leads to inflammation, and fibroids are an inflammatory disorder. Progesterone does stop cells proliferating, and it is an anti-inflammatory, but it will need help. There are some powerful antioxidant nutrients, N-acetyl cysteine, used effectively for endo another inflammatory disorder, arginine, CoQ10, ALA, and more. But the most important is vitamin D, how much are you taking? I did ask you to have a test, have you had one? Please do, it's so important, see the Vitamin D council website. Please let me know what symptoms you have, are they so debilitating you feel you need the hyst? Please see this excellent website on Hysterectomy. And please see this page on Inflammation, I wrote it after our initial 'conversation'. Please come back to me about my questions. Take care Wray

Dec 11, 2010
Please Help!!!
by: Wray

Hi there It is quite possible you weren't using enough, as you should have had benefit from progesterone. It's very good for sore breasts, see here, here and here. The soreness is caused by excess oestrogen, so is the water retention. Progesterone is an excellent diuretic, it's now given to brain trauma victims via IV transfusion to prevent the oedema that occurs. It's interesting you mention a sore chest as you had when pregnant. With the rise in progesterone in early pregnancy, oestrogen is stimulated, as it is once a month during our cycle. This leads to Oestrogen Dominance and it's attendant symptoms. Anxiety, depression, nausea, headaches, pain, water retention and more. You are now 45 and in Peri-menopause, when anovulation occurs with increasing frequency. This means no progesterone is made by the ovaries, which are still busy making oestrogen. Hence your adverse symptoms during the luteal phase, which lasts 12-14 days in all women. I recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone dependant on symptoms. But before you consider increasing to this amount, please read the page on oestrogen dominance I gave above. This can occur and is confusing when it does. I had those same symptoms your daughter has as a teenager. Because of this, I put my daughter on progesterone when she was 14, she still uses it and she's now 29. Puberty is as difficult a time as peri-menopause, for the same reasons, lack of progesterone. During puberty the ovaries are starting up, but often ovulation does not occur regularly until a few years after menses starts. So oestrogen predominates, it's essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. We've found from saliva tests we run, that the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be 600:1 and over, see Saliva Tests. I don't believe any woman needs extra oestrogen, we get too much as it is from our environment, see the website Our Stolen Future. and please read this page we have on HRT. Ask your daughter to read our page on How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Dec 11, 2010
Increase p- cream
by: Wray

Hi Leana Thanks for the kind words! Pleased you've thrown out the testosterone. If your saliva tests show an increase in the progesterone level, it means it is increasing. But if you still have adverse symptoms it means it's not high enough. Only we can tell if it's working or not, no test will show that. From saliva tests we run, we've found to feel well the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be 600:1 and over, please see Saliva Tests. But if you do increase the amount, please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance. It's confusing when this occurs! If you're using a 3% cream, you are right, just use more. Each 1ml contains 30mg progesterone, so to get 100mg you would need just over 3ml. I always feel it's best to follow a cycle if there is one, it's only when symptoms are severe that I recommend using it daily. As the ovaries only make progesterone during the luteal phase, supplemental progesterone should only be used then too., ie from ovulation. Natpro is a 3.3% cream, so is slightly stronger than the one you are using. So to get 100mg progesterone you would need 3ml of cream. Some creams don't absorb well, but if you find it working, there's no need to change. One thing I can say the Natpro does absorb well, as evidenced by the saliva tests, these were run over one month. The naturopath who does them for us only uses 80-100mg/day on her patients. Don't be too harsh on your anti-ageing doctor, I'm sure he has many good things to say! As for how long you should use progesterone, it's entirely up to you! I've used it for nearly 15 yrs now and intend staying on it forever. It's very beneficial for ageing, it has neuroprotective properties, see here, it's beneficial to skin, see here, for anxiety in ageing, see here and Alzheimer's, see here. Take care Wray

Dec 12, 2010
How long for a change?
by: ML

I went to a doctor that specializes in natural hormones. He put me on 3 creams, estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. He said they were all low doses. I felt great for about 10 months but could not afford to continue the appointments and monthly expense of the creams.

I have been struggling since being off those creams. I started the progesterone cream you suggest about 6 months ago and use 200mg morning and evening from day 14-28 of my cycle. I currently have 2 golf ball size lumps in my breast. My main concern is my feelings of hopelessness and mood swings.

I guess my question is how much cream do you suggest I use and how much longer should I continue before I change direction? You are the only person I see that suggests high dosages of progesterone. I am actually spending quite a bit now on the creams and don't want to use that much if it isn't necessary.

Thanks for your help. I have hope.

Dec 13, 2010
need more advice
by: Gina in MI

Hello again Wray - just finished my first cycle with your cream! I really love the cream, it absorbs so easy. I can easily take in the needed amount each day. My cycle went well this month, hardly a trace of any breast soreness or swelling - which I am so thankful!! I began the cream on day 14 and ended it on day 28 when I started to spot and my period came nice and on time the next day!!

So now, I am on day 4 of my period/cycle and the past 4 nights I have had horrible horrible night sweats - my whole torso from neck to waist sweats within an hour of me falling asleep, I wake up several times soaked. this morning I actually put some cream all over my chest when I woke up just because I felt like it might help - should I be doing this? what would be causing the sweating at this part of my cycle? I don't remember this ever happening. what do you think?

Dec 15, 2010
Progesterone Cream and Depression
by: Jenneffer

Hi..I am a 34 yr old woman who has been diagnosed with PCOS. I did, however manage to get pregnant in 2008 and had a beautiful baby girl in Oct 2009. I started using natural progesterone cream shortly before I got pregnant and continued throughout my pregnancy. Since having my baby I have had horrible problems with my periods etc. I went to a hormone specialist near my home who prescribed natural progesterone cream in a higher dose. They have their own compounding pharmacy. The cream I have been prescribed shows 750 mg/oz on the bottle and it is a 4 oz bottle. I have been told to take it twice a day...each pump is 1/4 tsp. I have been doing this for about 2-3 months now. I started noticing that I was feeling more anxious and depressed the week prior to my period and during as well. Lately though I have been feeling alot of depression most of the time (not just near my period) could I be using too much progesterone cream. It seemed like I felt pretty good when I first started back taking it at only 1/4 tsp per day with an otc bottle that contained 600 mg/oz. I am desperate for answers!!! I dont know what to do. Please help!!!!

Dec 15, 2010
help
by: Anonymous

I have gotten a few emails telling me more posts have been made to this page but they are not there when I look. Is there something I am doing wrong?

[Note from webmaster... sorry, holiday delays!]

Dec 15, 2010
hormones
by: danita

I was doing alot better then I was started on estradiol 1 mg. Dont know if thats what caused me to have severe colon problems but all i know is I've seen then had to have 2/3 of my colon removed. I was told it wasnt the cause so Im still taking it, Prometrium 200 mg in am & then in pm. to total 400 mg. I have since got my progesterone levels up to normal and working on the estrogen now. I was really wanting to try something different than prometrium supp, it leaves such a discharge. Ive used the compounded couldnt get my levels up with it.Im curious if you know anything about the progesterone patches or something else that may not be as messy and that wouldnt lose such a large amt through liver & gut as taking it orally and i want to stay as close to natural body hormones a possible due to increased risk of breast cancer. I was and really am still doing ok considering ive been so sick but would really appreciate your advise!!

Dec 17, 2010
P-cream
by: Leana

Thank you Wray, you posted this the 11th and it showed on the page the 17th. I checked every day. So hence the email contact ... Anyway. As I really don't want to go see my wellness doctor I am going to order the NatPro as my pcream supply is almost finished. Monday I'm going to the ob-gyn for my annual and I think the fibroids I have since a year have grown as I constantly have the urge to pee. No, no UTI have been checked. So maybe they grew and it's pushing on my bladder???? I really hope not. I really hope progesterone can make m shrink....... And my fibrocystic breast feel painfull too. All since I increased to 3ml=90mg day 7 to day 14 and 4ml=120mg day 14 to day 28. Is there a way to check your hormone level through saliva that doesn't cost 170 dollar every time?? I go through zrt. Thanks for your response and your email.

Dec 19, 2010
Menstrual break whilst on progesterone cream
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,

I commenced progesterone cream last month, I was put on 2% which I know is a low dose & my breasts became quite swollen. After reading your site, I doubled the dose to 4% (40mg) & I immediately felt better. I stopped the cream the day before period and after 4 days feel dreadful off the cream - I'm back to how I felt when I wasn't on progesterone. Does that mean I could be perimenapausal? I'm 40 years old and felt my hormones had changed around 36 years of age. I was recommended to take the cream between day 12 to 26 however my cycle is shorter at 23 to 24 days. I feel like I need to take the cream to balance out hormones...is it ok if I started today at day 4?
LizzR

Dec 30, 2010
Hair Loss
by: Kanika

Hi Wray,

I will be very pleased if you help me, I really need help. I'm suffering from hair loss from the past 4 months since Sep'10, since from then my periods have less menstrual flow. I got hairs on my face and suddenly severe hair loss has started. In Nov'10, I got my Hormone levels tested, it seems that LH level - 7.6 is higher than FSH - 6.6, Prolactin was 36 ng/ml other seems to be normal, But the symptoms are increasing day by day. In Dec'10, I again got my prolactin test - 30 ng/ml. At times, I got pelvic pain, my gynachologist has suggested mild pcos.I'm also experiencing headache during luteal phase. Doctor has prescribed Oral contraceptive pills, but because of their side effects I was nt able to take that. My marriage is scheduled in Feb'10. I want to stop my hair loss as early as possible. Please suggest if there is anything I need to go for Progesterone test. Thanks!!

Jan 02, 2011
Hair Loss
by: Wray

Hi Kanika Although your LH and FSH are within normal range, an LH level higher than FSH does indicate possible pcos. Your prolactin is high, it should be between 2 - 29 ng/mL, see Medline Prolactin. This is stimulated by oestrogen, a lack of the amino acid tyrosine could also be responsible. Do you eat enough protein? Prolactin suppresses progesterone and the neurotransmitter dopamine. Prolactin is often regarded as the hormone of lactogenesis, ie it causes milk to be produced. But in excess it reduces libido, causes hypogonadism, galactorrhoea and has inflammatory properties too. Oestrogen increases mitotic and secretory activity of several cells in the pituitary, but particularly the proliferation of lactotrophs or prolactin cells. You don't mention your oestrogen level, but it could be too high in ratio to progesterone, in spite of both being within the normal range. High prolactin inhibits the secretion of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and gonadotropic-releasing hormone (GnRH) which leads to hypogonadism. In women this suppresses the ovulatory cycle causing irregular periods, anovulation, with subsequent difficulty in falling pregnant, and a possible loss of libido and breast pain too. In some women, menstruation may disappear altogether. There is some evidence that prolactin can delay hair re-growth. Progesterone does suppress prolactin, see here. We do have a page on PCOS, please read through it as it explains why it occurs and what can be done about it. The contraceptive pill is the last thing you should take, as it suppresses progesterone, by stopping ovulation. Please have a vitamin D test done, this is low in most of us and is such a vital nutrient. For more info see the Vitamin D council website. The hair loss, facial hair, pain is related to PCOS, this must be resolved before your symptoms will go. The PCOS page gives a list of nutrients needed to reverse it. Take care Wray

Jan 02, 2011
How long for a change?
by: Wray

Hi ML I don't believe you need as much as 400mg/day, which I gather you are using. I only suggest such a high amount if symptoms are severe, such as debilitating hot flushes, heavy, continual bleeding etc. I normally recommend 100-200mg/day. Having come off the oestrogen and testosterone creams, the body does take time to settle down before the level of these reduce. Have you read our page on Oestrogen Dominance, as I believe you are still experiencing this. Although with such a high amount it should have passed by now. Are you very stressed at the moment, as stress drops progesterone levels. This could be one reason you haven't responded as quickly as you should. Please consider having a vitamin D test done, a lack of the vitamin reduces the benefits of progesterone and it causes depression. For more info please see the Vitamin D council website. Please rub some of the cream on your breasts too. You might like to read our page on Anxiety. It could be your serotonin and/or dopamine is too low, there is a list of nutrients which help raise levels. When you reduce the amount of progesterone please do it slowly, do not reduce fast, as symptoms can come back. Do let me know how you get on, as I'm puzzled you haven't responded yet. Take care Wray

Jan 02, 2011
need more advice
by: Wray

Hi Gina Apologies for the late reply, but I'm travelling. I'm so happy you found the cream absorbs easily, and that your first cycle went well. I'm pleased you didn't get any oestrogen dominance symptoms, but I imagine you are using the 80-100mg/day you had been using? You stopped using the cream at the end of your cycle, the level of progesterone dropped, and immediately you began the night sweats. Oestrogen naturally rises round about day 3-4 too, which would have added to the affect. You did the right thing rubbing cream on when you felt you needed it. It should always be used like that, it doesn't have to be used only in the am and pm. I'm sorry this reply has come to late to help you immediately, and do hope you've continued using the cream when needed. It might be an idea to use it daily till you settle down, ie don't have a break at all for maybe 2-3 cycles. And then once you feel ready follow your cycle again. Alternatively you could use more progesterone to prevent the sweats. But if you do please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first. Let me know how you've fared. Take care Wray

Jan 02, 2011
Progesterone Cream and Depression
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer The amount of progesterone you are getting is about 31mg per 1/4tsp. You say you are using this amount twice a day, so you're getting about 62mg/day. I don't believe this is enough, I recommend 100-200mg/day, dependant on symptoms. We naturally make progesterone in the last 14 days of our cycle, so the symptoms you were getting the week prior to your period showed your progesterone was dropping too early. Or that you were making insufficient to counter the oestrogen which also rises in the luteal phase. This can occur in PCOS as anovulation is quite frequent. In other words the amount of progesterone you were supplementing with was insufficient. You should not have these symptoms. And if your symptoms are getting worse, and for most of the time too, it's again indicative you're not using enough progesterone. You said you felt good on the previous progesterone cream which was not as strong. But you also say you started using it shortly before you got pregnant. I think it was the pregnancy which made you feel good, and not the cream per se. Progesterone increases during pregnancy, from about 11ng/ml at the beginning, to over 400ng/ml at the end. During the luteal phase we should be making between 5-20ng/ml each day, as you can see we make huge amounts during pregnancy. I think your worsening symptoms are due to anovulation, and consequently no progesterone being made that cycle. We do have a page on PCOS. Please read through it, as it explains why it occurs and what can be done about it. One imperative, please have a vitamin D test done. There is strong evidence a lack plays a role in PCOS, plus a lack reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more info please see the Vitamin D council website. Please consider using more progesterone, but if you do, read the page we have on Oestrogen Dominance first. Finally we do have a page on Anxiety you might like to read. Take care Wray

Jan 02, 2011
hormones
by: Wray

Hi Danita Sorry about the delay in replying, I've been travelling. It's a pity you have been given oestradiol, particularly since you're concerned about cancer. Please have a look at our page on HRT. The oestradiol will suppress your progesterone levels, so you might find symptoms coming back again. Please be aware of this. I agree about the suppositories, they are messy. Some time back I suggested you tried the cream, you said you had but it didn't work. It does if the strength is high enough and you use enough, not the 20-40mg/day normally suggested. But 100-200mg/day, even the 400mg as you are doing now. It's so much easier to use, can be rubbed anywhere too, and the amount can be adjusted to suit symptoms, unlike the suppositories. It's also excellent for the skin too, see here. Oestrogen has no benefit, see here and here. Progesterone doesn't come in patches, those are synthetic progestins, not what you need. I'm sorry to hear about your colon problems, have they recently checked your vitamin D levels? This is so protective against inflammation etc in the intestines. It's also protective against cancer, please see these videos Vitamin D Prevents Cancer: Is It True? and Vitamin D and Cancer Prevention Take care Wray

Jan 02, 2011
P-cream
by: Wray

Hi Leana Sorry about the delay again! I've been travelling. Fibroids are difficult, they've taken time to grow, so take time to be absorbed. Once in menopause they shrink, as there is little oestrogen to stimulate their production.The idea behind using supplemental progesterone is to suppress the excess oestrogen. But if the fibroid is large it can be many, many months before any shrinking is observed. Many women are not prepared to wait this long. Before you consider a hyst, please read through this web site on Hysterectomy. The urge to pee could well be the fibroid pressing on your bladder. Particularly as you say you don't have a UTI. Please rub the cream on your breasts, it's very helpful for painful ones, see here, here and here. If your happy with following the protocol you're using continue with it. But progesterone should really be used following the cycle, ie we only make ovarian progesterone after ovulation. So I recommend it's use from then on, and not before. Unless of course severe symptoms are being experienced, in which case I suggest using it daily without a break until they resolve. ZRT is the best lab, there are others who do saliva tests, but I don't know how much they charge. It's not essential to keep having tests, I've only ever had one, and that was before I started using it, 15 years ago. Symptoms are the best guide. For instance I've been helping one woman who was responding to the progesterone, but she had a saliva test done and her level was over 35 thousand pg/ml. She was horrified, so was her doctor, who stopped her using it. All her symptoms came back, particularly severe aches and pains in her muscles and joints, she found walking difficult. I finally persuaded her the level was not unsafe, and to continue. Well she did and wrote back two days later saying her symptoms had gone. Take care Wray

Jan 02, 2011
Menstrual break whilst on progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Lizz Sorry about the late reply, but I've been travelling. I'm pleased the 40mg helped, although I believe that's too low too. I recommend 100-200mg/day dependant on symptoms. Please rub the cream directly on your breasts, as that does help. As you've only just started progesterone, please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance, it explains why this occurs. Until progesterone is the dominant hormone, stopping it can cause symptoms to come back. This can occur at any time, it's not necessarily related to Peri-menopause. It's interesting you felt your hormones had changed at age 36. From about age 35 we start getting anovulatory cycles, which means no ovarian progesterone is made. Anovulation occurs with increasing frequency from then on till menopause, when we stop ovulating entirely. It's only at this point do the ovaries stop making oestrogen, until then they make it each month. Hence the increasingly bad symptoms many women get, as there is little progesterone to counter oestrogen's affect. Progesterone is only made once we ovulate, so supplemental progesterone should only be used from then until bleeding occurs. The luteal phase lasts 12-14 days, it always occurs before we bleed and in all women. I generally recommend using progesterone for the full 14 days, which means sufficient is used. However if symptoms are severe, I do recommend using it without a break until they resolve. So if your cycle is 23-24 days you should be using progesterone from day 9 or 10, and not from day 12. Unless you know when you ovulate, in which case use it from then. Or you can choose to use it without a break until you feel confident symptoms won't return and then follow your cycle again. It seems standard practice to tell women to use progesterone from day 12 to 26, which assumes all of us have 28 day cycles. They can vary from 21 to 35 days, a huge range. Take care Wray

Jan 02, 2011
A couple more things!!!!
by: Jenneffer

Hi Wray....thanks for your response. I wanted to add a couple more things I left out of my previous post. For the last 2-3 months I have been on the progesterone cream everyday except when i bleed per my Doctor. The Doctor also gave me a prescription for Vitamin D (50,000 IU once a week) cause my vitamin D was somewhat low. I had read some of your posts and so last month I increased my dose of the progesterone cream to around 120 mg a day....everyday except when I bleed hoping this would help. I was under the impression that the vitamin D and the increased dose of P Cream would make the difference but I have to say with honesty that I have still been having a terrible time. Does it take some time for the increased dose to kick in and also since I have been on the cream continuously for this long isnt it about time to start using the cream only after ovulation. I have been considering using it only after ovulation this month to see if that makes a difference. I am so frustrated cause I need to be a mother to my daughter and I feel helpless sometimes. It is up and down for me everyday. One day I am extremely anxious...the next day I am totally depressed. The next day I might feel ok. It is a roller coaster that needs to come to a stop. I have just recently started also taking evening primrose oil. I heard it can help too. One more question. I started my period on 12/22 and two days after I stared I felt pretty good which is quite unusual but a day or two later I was back in the dumps. I am not going to use the P Cream until after ovulation but I have noticed that I have some symptoms that had gone away return such as hot flashes, nausea etc...the P Cream did get rid of these physical things so do you think waiting until after ovulation is still best for me or should I continue everyday (like I said I have been using it everyday for the last 2-3 months.) By the way when my doc checked my progesterone levels (through blood) it was 9... she said that was pretty good but I had already started the P Cream. Am I missing something here? I am too confused!!!!

Jan 04, 2011
hormones
by: danita

Seems you are right about my symptoms coming back. When I was hospitalized to remove 2/3 of my colon I was so sick. First of all the hospital wouldnt give me my prometrium as suppository, had to take it orally so my symptoms appeared to get worse, then I couldn't even take it orally for about 4 days because I couldn't have anything by mouth. I started taking it like prescribed again around the end of the month and still have no sex drive and feel antisocial again. I was put on doxepin for sleep so dont know if that could be causing the problem or if its hormone related again. Maybe I need to cut back to .05mg of estradiol, she said my levels were low. I'm back to taking prometrium 200 mg morning and night as suppository hoping to get my levels back up. Didn't think it would have time to get my levels that low, can they lower that fast? Any advice? I know you don't believe in testosterone but I am taking .4ml because I am trying to make my marriage work and I'm hoping its just temporary.

Jan 12, 2011
A couple more things!!!!
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer I'm pleased you're taking that dose of vitamin D, it's giving you about 7000iu's per day. There is evidence it's better taken daily, rather than weekly, please see the Vitamin D council website. If your level was low, it can takes months for it to rise to a good level. Please have another test about 3 months after the first one. I'm also pleased you've increased the progesterone, but it does take time! You only increased it last month, in many cases it can take 3 months or more for any benefit to be felt. So much depends on stress levels, pollution, foods eaten, drugs/vitamins taken and more. One significant factor now is winter, progesterone levels drop, so do vitamin D levels. It could be you need more to allow for this. Evening primrose is fine, but of the two essential fatty acids, omega 3 is the one that's missing from our diet. O3 is also vital for the B vitamins to work effectively, please consider taking this instead or as well as if cost is not a factor. Oestrogen is at it's lowest level the few days after we bleed, but it begins increasing again ±day 4, hence being back in the dumps. The nausea, hot flushes etc are caused by excess oestrogen, which indicates your progesterone is too low. To my mind it appears you're not stable enough to follow your cycle. Alternatively you could, but increase the progesterone to 200mg/day and see if that's enough to counteract the symptoms. A level of 9 is below average for the luteal phase, which ranges from 5 to 20ng/ml, see Medline Progesterone. Did you get a chance to read the PCOS page? I've found a much higher level of progesterone is needed, so I think you should increase the amount you are using. Plus you do need the antioxidants mentioned to aid ovulation, please consider taking them. Take care Wray

Jan 12, 2011
hormones
by: Wray

Hi Danita It's a pity you didn't cut open the prometrium caps and rub the contents on your skin. This is as affective as a suppository, in fact I have suggested this to many women. Progesterone could well drop that quickly, as stress drops levels, and you've been through great stress. You are also using oestrogen, it has to counter the affect of that too. Please see the page on HRT. And you are right, I don't believe any woman needs extra testosterone, this will also counter the progesterone. There is evidence that progesterone is involved in raising libido, we have many men using it for just that, see here. Progesterone plays the same role in both sexes, so the paper applies as equally to women as to men. The neurotransmitter dopamine is required for sexual arousal, if this is low, libido will be affected. Dopamine drops with stress, so this could be another factor you are dealing with. Please consider taking the amino acid tyrosine, it's the precursor to dopamine. For more info see our page on Anxiety. Take care Wray

Jan 13, 2011
Hair loss
by: Jane

I am 49 years old. At the age of 30 years, I had a complete hysterectomy. I have been on HRT for approximately 19 years. However 3 years ago, I decided to wean myself off estrogen. I felt good for 8 months and then my hair started falling out and other symptoms started. So I went to the doctor and he tested my estrogen levels and they were very low. I decided to go back on estrogen. My doctor prescribed a low dosage of biest cream 1.25mg per day and 10mg of progesterone cream. I also take 100mg of spironolactone for hair loss and 30mg armour thyroid (as my thyroid levels were 3.1 and now they are back to normal at 1.4).

The hair loss stopped after a few months and with time my other symptoms seemed to level out. However, my hair has not grown back like it use to be. Please advise if this is a permament hair loss or if I can do something to help it. Also, wondering about the amount of progesterone cream I am using.

Jan 14, 2011
Ovulatory Cycle
by: Kanika

Hi Wray, Thank you very much for your response. I got my levels check again this time on Day 3. Although my menstruation are on normal dates, this time it was on 29th day of the cycle, but the flow was very less lasted for 1 and half day (usually this is the trend from the past 4 months). This time my prolactin level is 16.08 ng/ml (last month 30 ng/ml). Two months back my DHEA-S level was 317 ug/dl this time 293.2 ug/dl but it seems to be high. Progesterone 0.99 ng/ml and Estradiol 39.97 pg/ml. These all levels was on Day 3. It seems like my estradiol is low as and progesterone is fine. My DHEA-S is high. I?m confused why suppresses the Ovulatory Cycle from the past 4 months which is the reason why Menstruation is very less. Although Prolactin level is less this time, but there is no change in the Menstrual flow and Hair loss and mild Breast pain (usually on Day 2 to Day 7). Does my hair loss is due to DHEA-S level? If yes, then would it be possible to recover the hairs lost due to high DHEA-S. I?m taking 30 g of protein every day and drinking 1 cup of Amla and 1 cup of Green Tea. Kindly let me know, what else I can do to recover my hair loss and to return back to Ovulatory cycle. Does PCOS means Anovulation?

Jan 14, 2011
30 with Estrogen Excess, How much Progesterone?
by: Tarah

I've struggled most of my life with hormonal imbalance, and had many health problems due to it. I was on depo provera for a long time which seemed to level me out, but after 5 years of being off of it I've been on a downward spiral.

My hair started falling out two years ago- I was 28 then, but I never really thought about it until the past 6 months when it's become so thin I can barely do anything with it. I realized something was wrong about a month or so ago when I noticed how much I had been crying over everything, and raging at the slightest things. I fly off the handle over silly things, then feel such guilt later. I didn't contribute any of my problems to estrogen excess until I made a joke about being hormonal-then it clicked.

I have nearly every symptom in the book, right down to fibroids which developed ages ago, and I'm begging for relief.

I bought life-flo progesta-care, in the 4oz bottle, but after reading your advices to the other ladies I am wondering what dosage I should use. I am living overseas in Ankara, Turkey right now so it's very hard to get any progesterone cream much less suppliments to help me, but I'm ordering them on ebay. I wanted to start taking the D3, Biotin, and Inositol to help. I rarely go in the sun, spending maximum 30 minutes a week in it, I am very sedentary, though I'm trying to get an active lifestyle back.

Do you have any recommendations for what dosage I should use of the cream, and any other foods or vitamins that can help balance me back out? My hair is horrible, and though I'm 30 I feel like I look worn out, dull and lifeless.

Will this help me overcome ovulation cramping too because I can always tell when I'm ovulating because it's like having a horrible mensus, with nausea as well.

Thank you so much for your time!


Jan 15, 2011
Hair loss
by: Wray

Hi Jane I'm relieved you came off the HRT, please read through this page and you'll see why. It's not so much the low level of our hormones, but the ratio between progesterone and oestrogen. Did he test for progesterone? This drops even more than oestrogen during Peri-menopause. Please read through this page to see what low progesterone does to us, I believe this is why you experienced the hair loss etc. I've found to feel well the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be 600:1 and over. We regularly run Saliva Tests and it's from these we've deduced this ratio. There are many safer options to spironolactone for hair loss, see here, here, here, here and here. I suggest you increase the amount of progesterone, I recommend 100-200mg/day, the amount you are using is that recommended to men. I would also ask you to have a vitamin D test done, a lack of this reduces the benefits of progesterone, helps hair growth, slows the thyroid and much more. Please see the Vitamin D council website for more info. The best nutrients for hair growth are 2000mg/day inositol, 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, 2-3mg/day biotin and 100mg/day thiamine (B1). Please consider taking these in preference to the spironolatone. And increase your progesterone, but before you do read this page on Oestrogen Dominance Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2011
Ovulatory Cycle
by: Wray

Hi Kanika Your prolactin has dropped to within normal range, but your DHEA-S could be normal, I don't know your age, see the ranges on Medline. I don't understand why they took your test on day 3. When checking for progesterone it must only be done ±7 days after ovulation or before a period. This is when progesterone rises, if it's low then it indicates you haven't ovulated. It should be low during the follicular phase, see Medline Progesterone. Your oestradiol is within range for the follicular phase, see Medline Oestradiol. I don't know what you mean by 'why suppress the ovulatory cycle', you said you couldn't take the pill because of adverse side effects. How it is being suppressed? If your DHEA-S i shigher than it should be, it could be the cause of the hair loss, as it increases both oestrogen and testosterone levels. You make no mention of a testosterone test, did they do one? I'm pleased you're taking the extra protein, but if you do have PCOS you have to reverse this before any symptoms resolve. If you read our page on PCOS again, it does explain why it occurs and what to do about it. Plus giving you a list of nutrients which help. So yes, if you do have PCOS it means you are not ovulating or very infrequently. Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2011
30 with Estrogen Excess, How much Progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Tarah I'm relieved you're off the depo, all Contraceptives come with adverse side effects, except the copper T IUD. All your symptoms point to excess oestrogen, and I don't believe the amount of progesterone you will be getting from the cream you bought sufficient. I've found in fact, that a low amount merely exacerbates the problem. I do recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone, dependant on symptoms. The more severe, the more progesterone is needed, it's essential to make it the dominant hormone. Judging by the struggle you've had I would suggest using the higher amount initially, it's easy enough to reduce the amount once symptoms have resolved. For more info see our page on How to use progesterone cream. But before you increase the amount please read this page we have on Oestrogen Dominance, it can occur and is disconcerting if it does. We also have a page on Fibroids too, you'll notice how they are stimulated by excess oestrogen. Please try to have a vitamin D test done, it's essential to make certain this is at it's optimal level of 80-100ng/ml, with a minimum level of 50ng/ml. The sun is of course the cheapest way to get vitamin D, but if you don't go outside much, supplements are a good option. The dose needs to be a minimum of 5000iu's per day, more if your level is very low. The supplements I suggest are 2000mg/day inositol, 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, 2-3mg/day biotin and 100mg/day thiamine (B1). Vitamin D is essential too. We do have a page on Nutrition and Diet you could look through. Ovulation cramping or Mittelschmerz occurs in about 20% of women. Try rubbing the cream over your tummy to help the pain, progesterone is an excellent anti-inflammatory. And if it helps you in getting progesterone of a suitable strength, see our page here. Take care Wray

Jan 22, 2011
30 with Estrogen Excess, How much Progesterone?
by: Tarah

Thank you very much for answering my question. Your information has been very helpful for me. I do want to ask one more thing. I have had difficulty losing weight for the past 2 years, but never before did I have as much difficulty. In fact I have gained so much weight, but without any real reason because my caloric intake is at it's bare minimum without causing my metobolism to stall. Will my ability to lose weight/metabolism return back to normal once my estrogen excess is back in balance?

Again, thank you very much for your time

Tarah

Jan 26, 2011
30 with Estrogen Excess, How much Progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Tarah Pleased it was of help. Excess oestrogen and contraceptives can cause Insulin Resistance. This could well be the problem you're now encountering, as IR causes weight gain and more. A lack of vitamin D also causes IR, please have that test done, and please get in the sun. It needs to be for 10-20 minutes a day during the hours 11 am to 2 pm, preferably with a swimsuit on and no sunscreen. This blocks the beneficial UVB rays which make vitamin D. Only apply it if you intend staying longer in the sun, and please make sure it contains no harmful chemicals. For more info on vitamin D see the Vitamin D council website. Please take time to read that page we have on nutrition, as it's not just a lack of calories which make us loose weight. In fact there's evidence this only exacerbates the problem. Take care Wray

Jan 29, 2011
Progesterone and Thrush?
by: Maria

Hi Wray, I have been using the cream in high doses since end of September 2010. It has definitely helped with the hot flushes, thank you, although I had to supplement with L-Tryptophan and folic acid, B6 to really head them off, due to stress. I sleep like a baby now and the hot flushes are so much better, although some days are good and some are bad, depending on how worked up I get! So now, I am probably using around 1 tsp in the morning and the same or a little more at night. At one point I was getting through a tube in under a week, and still hope I can bring this down some more as its costing a fortune, although I wouldn't give it up now.

My question is, I suddenly seem to have a bout of thrush and I am not a sufferer - the last time was probably about 13 years ago. There is absolutely no reason for this, sex life is practically zilch at the mo, and I don't have periods, having had a hyst. including ovaries, last July. I am basically trying to work out why, and wonder if its linked to the cream in any way... as the hormones are obviously shifting. I read somewhere that sometimes pregnant women can have thrush due to the change in hormones and they would have high progesterone levels... have you had anyone else ask you this question and is there an easy answer?

Would be very grateful for your response, and thank you for your help to date, so glad I didn't go down the HRT route... xx

Feb 01, 2011
Saliva Test
by: Dionne

Hello Wray,

During which time in the menstrual cycle is the best time to get saliva test for hormones?

Feb 03, 2011
baby then crazy
by: Melissa

OK so here is my story. I had a baby 2 years ago at 31. Apparently my adrenals have been working overtime for the past 2 years dealing with the overwhelming stress (everything even the simplest tasks have become overwhelming - not sure why) I used to be able to cope well -high pressure job, stressful family, smooth sailing for me). I hit rock bottom in August when I wasn't able to breath and suffered from sever anxiety attacks. The doctor put me on anti-depressants and I spiraled further downward. I wasn't able to leave the house. It was the lowest I have ever been. Luckily my mom took me to an acupuncturist and we started rebuilding my qi. When I started to feel a bit better I went to a naturapath to check my hormones (all while maintaining to work and crumbling at home) I have been supplementing progesterone for one month when I got my saliva test back my progesterone was 310 (healthy range 300-6,000) this is after supplementing for over a month. I am still supplementing data 14 to 21 but getting sever headaches and blurred vision. I am only using 1/8th of a teaspoon morning and night. From what I have read I need to increase the dose but I get anxious and jumpy when I increase my dose. I don't know what to do from here. Do I wait it out and hope the headaches go away with my current dose? or increase and deal with the anxiety and panic? this is the most trying time of my life. please help I just want to find me again. I have a wonderful life but am crumbling inside.
Melissa

Feb 09, 2011
Progesterone and Thrush?
by: Wray

Hi Maria So pleased the progesterone has helped you. Incidentally I've found 400mg/day reduces dramatically or stops entirely the hot flushes. Which means you must have been using this much at some point, as the tube only lasts 5 days. The 2 plus tsp you are using now would be giving you about 350mg, this should help the sleep! Also pleased the tryp and it's co-factors helped too. But you are so right, stress plays havoc with us, don't I know! If and when you decide to reduce please do so slowly. Interesting about the thrush, have you been extra stressed recently? As this would have caused oestrogen to rise again, and this exacerbates thrush. Progesterone reverses this. I suggest using some of your night time amount in your vagina. Oestrogen increases glycogen output in the vagina, candida thrives on this. We do have a page on Candida, please read through it, as it gives a full explanation of what to do and take. There are also plenty of papers too. I've found the best natural substance to use against it is caprylic acid. But do try to get the oil form, called caprylic/capric triglycerides. It's often called MCT oil, 5ml contains 3000mg caprylic acid. Difficult, but try to get some in your vagina too. It is slightly acid, so might sting a bit if the vagina is inflamed, it certainly stings the eyes if it gets in those. But it's the most wonderful oil for the skin, making it very soft. Good if a fungal infection affects the feet too. If you can't find it in a health shop, try a body builder's shop or gym, as they use it. It acts like a carb giving energy, but does not get deposited as fat. And I'm happy you didn't go the HRT route! Take care Wray xx

Feb 09, 2011
Saliva Test
by: Wray

Hi Dionne If it's progesterone you want to check, then it should only be done ±7 days after ovulation or before a period. The luteal phase is 12-14 days long, hence the ±7 days. Oestrogen is high then too, so it will give you a good idea of the ratio between the two. As saliva tests are done in pg/ml for both hormones, the ratio is easy to find. Divide the progesterone result by the oestrogen result. I've found from Saliva Tests we run that to feel well the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be 600:1 or over. Take care Wray

Feb 10, 2011
baby then crazy
by: Wray

Hi Melissa You have post natal depression, drugs are always the 'solution'. I'm currently helping 3 women who have PND. It affects 25% of women, from mild baby blues which last a few days, to post natal psychosis, which can incur infanticide. Antidepressants are not what you need. What you do need is at least 250-400mg/day progesterone, divided into hourly amounts. Dr Dalton would give up to 2400mg/day to her patients with post natal psychosis, see here. You have not been correctly advised on its use either. If following a cycle it should be used for the full 14 days of the luteal phase and not 7 days as you are currently doing. But in your case I suggest using it daily, throughout your period too. Follow this for about 2-3 months, or until you begin to feel it's benefit. For more info see here. During our monthly cycle our corpus luteum makes up to 20mg/day progesterone after ovulation. When pregnant the placenta takes over production, with levels rising to over 400mg/day in the last trimester. It's the sharp drop in levels after birth which can precipitate PND. You also need the B vitamin inositol, this stops panic attacks (so does progesterone if enough is used). Please take 8000-12000mg/day, it really needs to be this high to work, see here, here and here. You also need 2000-5000mg/day taurine, this amino is a potent anxiolytic, see here and here. GABA is another excellent anxiolytic, start low at 500mg/day and increase gradually. The GABA receptor sites need progesterone to function, it's this action of progesterone on the GABA receptors which is the reason for progesterone's calming effect, see here. Please have a vitamin D test, this is the most critically important nutrient. A lack leads to many depressive disorders, see here. You possibly need tryptophan too, more info about this on our Anxiety page. Take care Wray

Feb 12, 2011
Hair and skin
by: Anonymous

My hair and especially my skin on my face has become very oily, can this be from the cream? I just recently increase the dose and if it is will it go back to being normal when my body becomes acustomed to the new dose?

Feb 12, 2011
Oily skin
by: Paula

Can the progesterone cream be causing my skin to become very oily? My face is so oily that it makes my bangs oily also. I can't figure out what else it could be, I have noticed that this happened when I started it and when they increased it resently. Will it go back to normal if I just wait it out and let my body get used to the new dose or should I change the dose? Help very embarrassing.

Feb 12, 2011
comments
by: Paula

I have tried adding comments a couple of times but do not see them. Are they screened first?

Feb 18, 2011
How long to take Progesterone Cream without stopping
by: Beck

I have been on 1/4 tsp (2 times daily) of Natural Bioidentical Progesterone Cream for 9 months now. I am 48 years old and considered POST menopausal by all my saliva testing results. I began using the Natural Progesterone Cream under a doctor's care after having 5 weeks of severe bleeding and severe anemia - almost blood transfusion levels.

I have had no bleeding in 9 months, but have been on the above dose of Progesterone Cream - nonstop. My saliva test levels are showing low estradiol and progesterone to be within range - but still a little low.

My questions: Is there a danger in remaining on Natural Progesterone Cream without giving the body a rest?

Feb 19, 2011
Hair and skin
by: Wray

Hi there I'm not sure how much progesterone you are using, but it could be too little. When first starting progesterone, or when increasing the amount, Oestrogen Dominance can occur. Progesterone initially stimulates the production of oestrogen, but oestrogen is converted in the thecal cells in the ovary from androgens. So these rise too, it's the androgens which cause the oily skin and hair. Often causing acne too, which is why acne and oily skin in teenage boys is far worse than girls. It should normalise once your body has become stable on the increased amount, providing you are using sufficient. I recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone, for more info please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Feb 19, 2011
Oily skin
by: Wray

Hi Paula I'm not sure if it's you I've just answered, but please see my answer to 'Hair and skin' on the 12th Feb. Take care Wray

Feb 19, 2011
comments
by: Wray

Hi Paula They are screened, and all are put on the site, unless the English is indecipherable! Take care Wray

Feb 19, 2011
How long to take Progesterone Cream without stopping
by: Wray

Hi Beck I'm happy the bleeding has stopped, although I've found a higher level is normally required. As there is no cycle in Menopause I do recommend using it daily. I do and have done so for 15 years now. Some women prefer taking a break, it's entirely up to the individual. What I have found in some women, myself included, is that symptoms come back if a break is taken. So if you should consider taking one, please be aware this could occur. Oestradiol should be low in menopause, serum levels vary between 0 to 30 pg/ml, see Medline Oestradiol. Oestrone is the menopause oestrogen, the level is approximately 30 pg/ml, see here and here. We've found from Saliva Tests we run that to feel well, the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be 600:1 and over. Take care Wray

Feb 21, 2011
What would I do without you!
by: Maria

Hi Wray, through the various emails I have sent you and the advice you have given me, I just wanted to say a bit thank you.

Thanks to you, I really dont need to visit a doctor who wouldn't consider hormones and palm me off with pills that just harm my body and dont actually do anything positive.

You have helped me with the hot flushes, sleeping problems, you are very sensitive and patient in how you respond and your advice is always beneficial - I cant tell you how much I appreciate your tips on the methods and supplements you suggest, in order to alleviate symptoms - I trust you 100% - your advice makes so much sense.

Its good to know you are there, and I cant thank you enough for everything you have helped me with so far. Keep up the good work, what would we do without you! xx

Feb 21, 2011
HORMONES
by: Danita

Hi Wray, I was doing a lot better til I had to have a colectomy and had a bowel obstruction post op. I have had problems ever since they starved my gut so they could fix the obstruction so messed everything up. I have been so depressed. I have tried many antidepressants, everything makes me worse. I had my lab work done a couple weeks ago via blood. I know saliva is better but my levels fluctuate so bad that blood test is what I have to do.Here's the results of everything.. My albumin is 4.4g/dl,SHBG 68.7nmol/l, testosterone 3ng/dl,free testosterone 0.0324ng/dl,bioavailable testosterone 0.777ng/dl,estradiol 33.1pg/ml,vitD61.6ng/ml,progesterone 7.9ng/ml,sex horm binding glob 68.7 nmol. I am staying sick all the time with allergy stuff going on, was having night sweats. I was giving a 100mg shot of progesterone oil, 30 of estrogen and 100mg shot of testosterone. I had stopped taking my estradiol and testosterone because of what you said and was just using the prometrium 400mg supp and just kept getting worse, did that for almost 3 months and didnt get better, just want your opinion. My anxiety, insomnia and night sweats were terrible not to mention allergies.

Feb 21, 2011
Doctor advice
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray- I have posted here several times and tried to use your recommendations but I am still having issues--and I am sure it's because I just don't have a good understanding as to how this all works. I was wondering if you know of any doctors, etc that are as knowledgable as you are on all of this?? I really feel like I need a doctor's guidance with all of this. I have hypothyroidism/hashi's as well, so estrogen dominance isnt my only challenge. If you do know of anyone, could you please email me at [email deleted]. Thanks so much, Wray!

[Note from webmaster... sorry but our policy is to not publish emails as they tend to attract spamboys]

Feb 21, 2011
Regarding my Previous Post
by: Anonymous

Thanks for responding, Wray! It's a little discouraging to me to feel that I may have to remain on the Progesterone Cream for a lifetime to keep the bleeding episode from returning, but if I have to, I will. My ZRT lab results came in the mail today: Estradiol 0.5, Progesterone 381 and Ratio Pg/E2 is 762. So. . .I've got a little more work to do. I will be seeing my healthcare practitioner next week. Just a note for your opinion. Doesn't Progest Cream help fibroids to shrink? When my severe bleeding problem occured, Dr told me that I was full of fibroids. (I'm thinking that was where the bleeding was coming from). My question. . .since I've been using the cream for 9 months nonstop, do you think that the fibroids have shrunk and can they grow again in size. . since I am considered POST menopausal now? You mentioned that your bleeding reoccurred when you stopped your progesterone cream. Do you mind sharing a little more about that with me? I just hate to live with the worry of starting the profuse bleeding again if I get out of my progesterone cream. Thank you for all your time!

Feb 24, 2011
What would I do without you!
by: Wray

Hi Maria Bless you for this! It gives me such a good feeling to hear I've been of some help. Maybe my interest in helping others comes from having experienced the road to hell and back. Several times in fact, with depression during puberty, post natal depression and then the hell of peri-menopause. And all for a want of some progesterone. Plus a little help from the nutrients! There are so many needing help, I sometimes get discouraged, so getting a message such as yours makes me determined to continue. I sit on my computer from 7 or 8 am to 9 to 9.30 pm, 7 days a week. I do eat though! Well most of the time, never breakfast which is bad, but I forget to. I very rarely go out, I have friends phoning and asking if I'm still on the planet! So bless you once again for the uplifting words, I will carry them with me forever! xxx Take care Wray

Feb 24, 2011
HORMONES
by: Wray

Hi Danita The stress you've been through would undoubtedly have caused your progesterone to drop. It's only 7.9ng/ml and yet you've been using 400mg/day. Your oestradiol is slightly on the high side, it should be 0 - 30 pg/ml for a postmenopausal woman. After such an op you are going to take time to heal. Progesterone does inhibit mast cells, which release histamine causing the allergic reaction, see here. It's a pity you allowed them to give you the oestrogen, read our page on HRT again. As for testosterone, it's not worth the risk, see here, here, here, here here, here and here. Please also read our page on Anxiety again. You did come off the Zoloft, and were taking the nutrients instead, why did you stop? Stress drops the B vitamins, and some of them, inositol and B3 in particular, have antidepressant properties. Your vitamin D is a good level, but how long has it been like that. If recent, it does need more time to work. It could be you just have to be patient to give to the healing process time. Please consider taking a good B complex, and the nutrients on the anxiety page too. I wish I could help you more, but it's difficult to know what else is going on. It doesn't appear that your doctors have been much help either. Take care Wray

Feb 25, 2011
Doctor advice
by: Wray

Hi there I wish I knew which posts were yours, but not having a name to attach to them, and not knowing what subject you used, I don't! I can be obtuse at times, so maybe I didn't give you an understandable answer. I don't know if I asked you to have a vitamin D test done, if not please do. All autoimmune diseases have low vitamin D levels, which makes me suspect they are not autoimmune, but merely caused by a lack of vitamin D. They all have high oestrogen levels too. For more info on vitamin D please see the Vitamin D council and GrassrootsHealth websites. We do have doctors/health care practitioners we work with. I'm not sure if you're in the States, the UK or elsewhere, so I'm giving a selection, please see here for the USA, here for the UK, and here for Australia. Take care Wray

Feb 25, 2011
Regarding my Previous Post
by: Wray

Hi there I don't think you'll have to stay on progesterone for the rest of your life. Although I must add I will! It's so beneficial for ageing, see here, here, here and here. Apart from being the only safe way to protect us from the oestrogen mimics which abound now. Oestrogen is rising the world over, for more on this please see the website Our Stolen Future. Progesterone, by opposing oestrogen, does help fibroids shrink, please see our page on Fibroids for more info. As you are post menopausal the fibroids will continue to shrink, as oestrogen levels are falling. So I would hope in the not too distant future they will be no more, and you will not bleed. Unfortunately with no name, I don't know what your previous post was. So I'm confused by your comment that my bleeding recurred when stopping progesterone. If in pre-menopause, it will occur in all women when stopping progesterone, unless they have problems with their ovaries and don't produce enough oestrogen. If post menopausal, bleeding won't occur. Oestrogen levels are too low in menopause to build a lining. So the drop in progesterone levels if stopped, will not cause bleeding to occur. MMPs are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle. If they are over active the result is a pathological reaction such as inflammation. This can lead to spotting or continual, sometimes excessive bleeding in the uterus. Oestrogen stimulates MMPs. If there's an excess of oestrogen in the body it will continually stimulate more lining. Progesterone suppresses MMPs and oestrogen. It?s only when progesterone levels drop at the end of the cycle that the MMP?s can get to work and break down the lining causing our monthly bleed. But if progesterone is low, spotting and/or bleeding can continue. Please see here and here. I hope this helps! Your ratio of progesterone to oestrogen is good, see our Saliva Test results. Take care Wray

Mar 27, 2011
O verdosed on Estrogen
by: Rie

I have been giving way to much estrogen. My salivia test came back at 187.5..wow. The progesterone was 12. Testosterone 42. I took 30 mg progest cream last night for hot flashes and thinking it would start to round off my high estrogen. Since progesterone would be low if you are est/dominant. I think I am going to lower the testosterone from 2 mg three days a week to 1 mg three days a week. How long does it take to get estrogen out of your system. I was given too many high doses.

Mar 29, 2011
Re:Doctor Advice
by: Angelique

Hi Wray, Sorry I didn't leave my name before so you didn't know which posts were mine. You mentioned low vitamin D issues. My vitamin D was a 65 the last time I tested and a 92 prior to that..so don't think that is an issue for me. Now when this all started my Vitamin D was a 15. So it has come up considerably in the past couple years. I supplement with drops every day. And yes I may have high oestrogen but I just don't do well on progesterone cream. And I am afraid to take it at real high doses without having a doctor to consult. It's not that I don't trust you because believe me you have WAY more knowledge than most doctors I have seen...but I also have an abnormal heart rhythm so I am very cautious with hormones without being directly under a doctors care. I stopped doing the progesterone cream recently(and I was only using about 20mg at night anyway) because I actually woke up with my heart racing and was having insomnia. I found out that I was "hyper"thyroid so I am trying to work that out right now. The doctor's info page you gave me is in California and unfortunately I am across the county. Thanks Wray!
Angel

Mar 30, 2011
PCOS
by: Tara

Hi Wray, I'm 35 and have had PCOS for the last 4 years. I just started using the progesterone cream last week. I upped the dosage last night and feel a bit jittery and tender breasts. My main symptoms are bad skin,random hairs and weight of about a stone which i cannot shift. I will be getting Vit D and Inositol to take later today! My question is do you think i should be taking 100 - 200mg a day for potentially (as the cycles are irregular) Day 14 - 28 of the cycle and then stop for 2 weeks? Also should the cream once the cycles become more regular help with the weight loss?

Mar 30, 2011
Amount of progesterone for an 11 years old girl
by: Roxy

Hello Wray and thank you very much for this page. I found it after looking around for a solution for the extreme sleepiness i got after using only the generally "recommended dose" of 20mg/day. After reading your posts, I have increased my dosage to 200mg/ day and experience only slight fatigue soon after application. I am thinking of increasing a little more to see if the light tiredness goes away all together.

My question here is for my 11 years old daughter: She is very tall for her age and exhibits sign of estrogen dominance ( if not excess). She has not started her period yet but everything else seem to be there. I am worried about her lack of stamina and apparent so-so being ( as opposed to well being that you would expect from a child her age). I saw that you had answered a few months earlier that it was okay to start an almost pubertal girl on progesterone, my question would be about the amount and what reactions to expect. Will she be extremely sleepy too? she plays sports and needs to be very much awake during the day.

Again, thank you for the attention you are giving to all here.

Apr 01, 2011
Hair Loss
by: Kanika

Hi Wray,

I would really need your help. I'm suffering from hair loss and hair thinning from the past 7 months and initially for the first 2-3 months my prolactin was high, but then it got normal from the past three months but the hair thiining is increasing day by day. My other hormones are normal but I have less menstuation bleeding and this time it gets bit late, doctor told me that I have mild pcos but if it is mild then whyI'm having very very severe hair thinning and hair loss. I'm thinking that I'm not ovulating properly or not ovulating at all from the past 7 months since when this problem of hair thinning has started. Earlier I have symptoms of breast tenderness and it is now very less during the menstruation. I dont want to go for any blood test as it actually doesnt help at all. I have read that if progesterone is very less oestrogen become high which makes androgen (androstenedione high) and it also makes anovulatory cycle. I would like to ask you can I use progesterone cream, if yes then how much and at what timings. What other supplements I can take other than that to save my hair as early as possible. I would really want to have natural supplements and natural progesterone cream as I recently got married and planning for baby.I would really want to gain succes in saving my hairs. doctors told me that we cant say that your hairs will come back or not. Would like to know if this is something not curable. I have read lot of people improved in their hair while using progesterone cream. Thanks Wray, Your help is very much appreciated. Please Reply soon.

Apr 01, 2011
Hair Loss
by: Kanika

Hi Wray,

I forgot to add that i'm feeling scalp tenderness and feel like inflamed scalp also..

Thanks..


Apr 01, 2011
Amount of progesterone for an 11 years old girl
by: Roxy

Hello Wray, Hope you are okay. It seems that you have not been able to respond questions for a few weeks. Just in case you get to read this, I just wanted to give an update on my previous post. I have been trying to find out what exact dosage will remove the sleepiness all together : 20mg/day was too low and 200mg/day seemed okay although it did not remove the sleepy feeling, just lightened it. I have increased the dosage to 240mg/day but it remained the same as for 200mg/day. so now i am thinking of decreasing to maybe 160mg/day. I am just wondering how long i have to try a dosage before i can tell if it is working or not. the difference from 20mg/day to 200mg/day was felt almost immediately.

As for my daughter, I have not started giving her progesterone, I am trying a multivitamins supplement that contains high dose of C, Bcomplex, D, E,magnesium and 6g of amino-acid .On top of that I add flax seed oil and additional magnesium in the evening. I want to try this for a few weeks to see if it improves. Before, i used to give her just a regular multivitamin and a high dose of one vitamin or another, never high doses of all at the same time. I would still like to read your opinion on the amount of progesterone for my daughter.
Thank you

Apr 07, 2011
progesterone/phytoestrogen
by: Bren

I'm a 55 y.o. female. I don't know where I am on the menopausal bus. I had a pratial hystorectomy in 2000 or 2001.I'm also hypothyroid, hypoglycemic. After speaking with a dietitian, she mentioned progestrone, I did some reading about it, studied several sites and finally orded a cream. I have been reading these posts every morning before work. A lot of good info. here. As i'm reading these posts and reading the label on the cream. I realized I'm not getting what you recomend. Mine says each full pump delivers 20mg progesterone and 25 phytoestrogen. UGH, I reading that estrogen is NOT a problem usually. So, last night and this morning I doubled the amount. I'm concerned about the phytoestrogen since, since I started the cream I have gained (in a week) enough weight that my clothes, don't button!!! I just read about the cell division of fat and others. I ordered 2 two bottles. I want to order the natpro. Should I continue mine until the natpro arrives or stop and start again. Thank you for all y'r good advice.
P.S. just had a follow up to ck thyroid and my D is good. Cholesterol, not so much!!

Apr 07, 2011
Amount of progesterone for an 11 years old girl
by: Wray

Hi Roxy I'm delighted the higher amount has helped you. And thank you for having the courage to follow my far higher recommendation! It does work, and an even higher amount might just do the trick, you'll have to experiment. Once the symptoms have gone, it's so easy to reduce slowly till you find the optimum. Progesterone should always be used as and when needed, and never as a fixed daily amount. For instance stress drops levels, so more is needed to prevent symptoms returning. Puberty is such a difficult time, to me it's the equivalent of peri-menopause in an older woman! I had bad depression during both those phases, only discovering progesterone towards the end of P-M. In fact I put my daughter on it at 14, to prevent her getting it, which she didn't. She's still using it and is now 29. It is safe for younger people, in fact it's given to pre-term infants if their lungs are not fully developed. Progesterone is essential for proper lung growth. I've recommended a pinhead amount for 3 month old babies who won't or can't get to sleep. Impossible two year olds are calmed hugely by a tiny dab too. I would suggest you try 50mg/day for your daughter, but you'll have to watch out for adverse symptoms. She could well follow your suit by getting sleepy, or irritable, angry, upset etc. If this does occur increase the amount till symptoms go, then reduce it slowly. It's always trial and error in the early days of using it, but after a while you get to know how much you need. Thanks for the kind words. Take care Wray

Apr 08, 2011
Pregnancy or progesterone cream side effects?
by: Maria

Hello there, I had an IUI done almost 10 days ago and started progesterone cream about 9 days ago, 1 gram vaginal at night. I started to have some nausea in the last 3-4 days along with my breast getting fuller and I keep on feeling more or less some cramping like menstrual cramps. I don't have dryness or itching and I could nap easily in the afternoon. I'm very irritable and I cry easily. I didn't gain weight and my sexual drives are not that high. I also feel I prefer certain food now which it was never the case before. The nausea comes and goes but I'm not eating as much as before at all. Could I be pregnant or these are just progesterone side effects?
Thanks

Apr 20, 2011
Pregnancy or progesterone cream side effects?
by: Wray

Hi Maria The symptoms we get in pregnancy and those using supplemental progesterone are the same, and have the same cause. Once pregnant, progesterone begins to rise, this rise stimulates oestrogen. The same applies when we first start using progesterone. I always recommend starting it before falling pregnant, to get over this phase. There's more info on our Oestrogen Dominance, plus we do have a page on Pregnancy. You don't say how much progesterone you are using, it could well be insufficient, as it normally stops nausea. Most creams on the market contain 20mg/g of cream, some higher. Even a 10% cream won't give you sufficient progesterone. I do believe you are pregnant, but only a test will tell, this should be possible shortly. Take care Wray

Apr 25, 2011
Need Estrogen AND Progesterone?
by: Wishing the answers were clear

Hi Wray,

I found this site by accident and have been reading (far too long) through all the Q & A. I am menopausal (one doc suspects PCOS too). I have been researching HRT/BHRT and the information has been SO confusing. Do I need more estrogen? More progesterone? Both? My symptoms (weight gain, depression, anxiety, hair loss, brain fog, excess facial hair, etc., ) could be too much/too little estrogen or too much/little progesterone. (Just Google the symptoms, or - as I did- read 8 different books. Conflicting information and confusion is GUARANTEED!)

I considered progesterone cream after reading Dr. Lee's book, but then read about how progesterone can accumulate in the fat cells, causing a decrease in effectiveness after time. (Why? Why? Why? I thought I had found the answer. SO confusing!)

After reviewing my labs, the compounding pharmacist (with consult with my primary care doc) recommended both estradiol & progesterone. (My understanding is that I can be "estrogen dominant" in my body and still need estrogen in order to attain "normal" levels.) I started the estradiol 5 days ago. The progesterone will be added about 3 weeks from now.

So.....Wray, what should the optimum ration between estrogen and progesterone be? Since I'm menopausal should I take the progesterone all the time? (I really do not want periods again. After reading your response about the stopping of progesterone causing bleeding, it may be a "see what happens" with the BHRT therapy.)

And the hair loss connection to progesterone?!!! I had not seen/heard of this! My pharm said the estradiol should help with my hair loss. If supplemental progesterone helps reverse the affects that would offer SUCH hope. But, Wray, are there proven results for menopausal women? s I clicked on the link for the studies on this, but it was dead. (Probably because the post was old.) Could you please provide again?

Since the key seems to be having the proper balance of hormones, what's the ideal ration of estrogen:progesterone. I understand that you go by symptoms (I love it!), but somewhere in these threads, weren't there some "ideal" levels mentioned? I would like to know what you have in the way of recommendations based on the research you've done.

Sorry for the long, long post. I am still SO confused and SO scared about making things worse. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!!







May 04, 2011
Need Estrogen AND Progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi there There is much confusion surrounding the use of progesterone, so many differing opinions, too many! I can of course only offer you mine, but what I say comes from experience in using it for 15 years, helping thousands of women, men too, and the feedback I get from them, plus reading hundreds of studies. I'm surprised the PCOS wasn't picked up years ago. It's caused by inflammation, often a lack of vitamin D is behind it. It's exacerbated by oestrogen, an inflammatory hormone. The symptoms you've given are due to excess oestrogen. Although the hair loss and facial hair is caused by excess testosterone. Women make more testosterone than oestrogen each month, most of it being converted by the enzyme aromatase into oestrogen. And in menopause the ovary becomes an androgen producing organ, see here. So I don't believe you need more oestrogen. Oestrogen causes weight gain, it stimulates cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells. But as these also produce oestrogen a vicious cycle starts. There is the belief that progesterone saturates the fatty layer and that the receptor sites become insensitive to it, but I've not found it so. Both from my own experience and others. Stress drops progesterone levels, so symptoms can come back. This has happened frequently with me, and on occasion I've used up to 330mg/day progesterone for 2 weeks. I can tell that my receptor sites are in good working order! I get bad Oestrogen Dominance symptoms each time I do this. If they were insensitive, I would not respond in this manner. Not only that but the adverse symptoms I had been experiencing all go. Until the next stressful time! I use about 170mg daily and have done for 15 years now. See these papers here and here, for more info. I can't see the reasoning behind being oestrogen dominant and needing more oestrogen! To be oestrogen dominant means you have excess oestrogen, why else would you get the adverse symptoms? We've found from Saliva Tests we run, that the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be 600:1 and over to feel well. I've run out of space, so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray

May 04, 2011
Need Estrogen AND Progesterone?
by: Wray

You won't get periods again if you are menopausal, oestrogen and only oestrogen can cause the lining of the uterus to build up. But the level has to be that produced by a pre-menopausal woman. Progesterone cannot build the lining, in fact it stops it from being built. MMPs are enzymes that break down protein, they play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle. It?s only when progesterone levels drop at the end of the cycle, that the MMP?s can get to work, and break down the lining causing our monthly bleed. Oestrogen stimulates MMPs, progesterone inhibits them. Only if a pre-menopausal women uses progesterone and stops it will she bleed. Not a menopausal woman, for more info see our page on Menopause. I do recommend using progesterone daily once in menopause, I can see no reason for a break. You say the 'hair loss connection to progesterone', I'm not sure what you mean. Have you read that it causes hair loss? If so, it's surprising that millions of women who've been pregnant can testify to having wonderful hair whilst pregnant. We make over 400mg/day progesterone in the third trimester. Only excess testosterone causes the loss, plus of course a lack of nutrients, vitamin D, iron, N-acetyl cysteine, vitamin B1, inositol and biotin. You ask if there are proven results for menopausal women. I would say there are, judging by the thousands who use it regularly. I'm not sure which post you clicked on, so can't provide it. Hopefully the menopausal page will help. I do prefer going by symptoms, as no test can tell anyone how we are feeling. To me they are of academic interest. There is no ideal level, we're all so different. Some women can get by with little, others use up to 300mg/day to feel well. Many things effect the level, stress, low vitamin D levels, large meals, dark winter days, excess oestrogen and testosterone and more. I suggest women use 100-200mg/day dependant on symptoms. The amount can vary daily in some cases. As I mentioned, I've used up to 330mg/day when stressed. It really is a question of experimenting, there's no doubt about it's safety. It's been used successfully for over 60 years, in some cases very high amounts. For instance Dr Dalton would give 2400mg/day to her patients with post natal psychosis. Over 1200mg/day is given via IV transfusion to brain trauma victims. I know of one naturopath who puts his patients on 1200mg/day, getting them to go as high 3600mg/day if needed. Finally you might like to look at our page on HRT. No matter if the oestrogen is our own, bio-identical or synthetic, it has the same effect. Take care Wray

May 05, 2011
When to discontinue progesterone cream
by: Rosey

Hello
I have been using natural progesterone cream at the rate Dr Lee prescribed for over 15 yrs (using a cream that he approved). It is wonderful stuff and it has kept me healthy and youthful with good e.g. skin and hair. I am 46 and have suffered from chronic infertility. After giving up for some considerable yrs, my husband and I recently restarted - a concerted attempt and have adopted a protocol including taking Maca, Vitex tincture, using preseed, plus various dietary, physical (e.g. fertility massage etc.) and mind-body approaches. Just three cycles in I've had significant changes - positive!! - in that I have been producing much more fertile cervical mucous and this cycle I believe I ovulated. The first and second cycles regulated to longer than they had been in recent yr or so (31 as opposed to 26 ... cycle was around 29 in my 'youth').

The thing is, this third cycle I am now at day 37 with no period, but repeated negative pregnancy tests! I've had some symptoms (lots of diahrrea, some cramping/stretching, increased urination, fuller breasts, a little nausea etc. but imagine these can be attributed to high progesterone caused by e.g. ovarian cyst, or potentially even ectopic pregnancy? Or fact I have continued to use my cream after the usual end of my cycle and overloaded my system?? I continued to use my natural progesterone for fear of miscarriage should I suddenly stop. But now I am in a quandry re whether I should stop using the cream regardless. If I am not pregnant I'm keen to start a new cycle and to ensure normal hormone levels.

Your help with this much appreciated! Thank you.

May 06, 2011
Symptoms due to cream or Mirena?
by: Kathy

I am in peri-menopause (just turned 50) and had a Mirena IUD put in 3 months ago to decrease my very heavy menstrual bleeding. I had had heavy bleeding for 10 years with major hemorrhaging the last year. I am currently using 40mg of progesterone cream once a day. I am having headaches, tinnitus, dry eyes and mouth and afternoon fatigue. Could the cream be a reason for any of these symptoms or could it be the progesterone in the Mirena?

I am open to trying more cream if you think that would help!

I so appreciate all of the information here! Thank you so much for offering this!

May 14, 2011
Need Estrogen AND Progesterone?
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,

Thank you so much for your response. I read through very quickly as I have to leave for work. (Seven days/week lately,)

Quick response to your question about why would I need estrogen if I am estrogen dominant? My understanding is that one can be estrogen dominant and still have estrogen levels far below normal/optimal. It would then follow that both estrogen and progesterone would need to be supplemented to bring both hormones into balance at optimal levels. That make sense to me (have read this in several books, too), but then I would need to know...what's optimal and what's the optimal ratio between to the two hormones? Thanks for your response on the ratio. Again, I will read through tomorrow and read the links.

I'm still on the oral estradiol & due to add progesterone on the 19th. I am up to 1 full tab at night. Tried increasing 1 full tab during day. Am experiencing extreme anxiety, weepiness, frequent urination (like the "pre period" symptom I used to have.) Cut back to 1/2 a tab this a.m.

Don't know if the anxiety was stress induced or the added estradiol. Cut back today because I need to be "on" at work. I have been increasing the dosage every week. I am wondering if I have been increasing the dosage too quickly. OR... is stress making things worse because I haven't yet added the progesterone?? Oh geez. Such a crap shoot!

Interesting comments about stress and how you dose your hormones. I have been experiencing LOTS of (over the edge type of) stress this past 3 months.

Thanks SO much again for responding. Will "study" tomorrow. Ooops. There went another dizzy feeling!

May 14, 2011
Maybe I should have started with the progesterone tabs?
by: Wishing the answers were clear

Everyone I know who's start BHRT either started both at the same time or started E and then added the P (to track symptoms).

Wray, reading all here, maybe I should have started with the progesterone first? ( Work up gradually, track symptoms, and THEN add the estrogen?)

Hmmmmmm.........

May 17, 2011
Bloated from ovulation through period.
by: MKF

Since my teens as soon as I went on the pill I have have a belly pooch. It would start out flat in the morning and get bigger as the day went on. I stopped the pill in my late 20's. Now in my late 30's I have a belly pooch that is REALLY big starting at ovulation through my period. I also seem to be bloated all through the abdomen. What causes this? I have tried diet to no avail. I have used progesterone cream to no avail. My diet is very healthy, I have no constipation issues, and work out regularly and am very thin. Is this a sign of estrogen dominance? I'm just so tired of being bloated 3 weeks out of the month. Oh I do have a tilted uterus too. Thanks for any insight.

May 26, 2011
Unbalanced Hormones?
by: kk

Hi,

I think I may be estrogen heavy--I'm 43, was on the pill from 28-34 yrs. Since 2006, I've developed polyps twice. I have since been told my lining is think again--which means it has grown back. Another sympton, and why I'm writing is for the last 10 months, I have a lack of feeling, almost a numbness in the vaginal area and am having difficult reaching orgasim. I'm wondering if this is due to a hormone imbalance?
Many thanks.

May 27, 2011
Baby then crazy
by: Melissa

Hi Wray,
Its me again, I was suffering from severe PND (post natal depression) and debilitating panic attacks. I have been seeing an acupuncurist and naturopath for 8 months now, and am starting to feel slightly better. I was taking chinese herbs but had panic attacks whenever I tried somthing new. Although I don't feel like they were addressing my hormone problems. The naturopath suggested serenagon at night to calm me and help with sleep as well as progesterone cream day 14-28 (1/8 in the am and 1/4 in the pm) initially the cream she recommended was giving me crazy headaches so I started using Unicity's cream and I have had no headaches. She also suggest metagenics i3c to metabolize the estrogen. I amps me up like crazy. Although I am getting better I still have lots of anxiety especially day 21 to 28 and day 13/14. I have been taking free and easy wanderer to calm myself when needed through the day. So I on a bit of a hodge podge of chinese medicine and natural stuff. I still have a lump in my throat that makes me feel like I can't swallow and my neck has begun to hurt a lot. My symptoms are constantly changing which makes the anxiety tough, I am always trying to talk myself of the cliff - because I keep thinking that I am going to die (did I mention that I had an allergic reaction to a tincture that a different naturopath gave me 5 years ago and was hospitalized) which makes my treatment that much harder. The doctor has no answers for me (except anit-depressents that I had a reaction to really bad) So I am researching and reading trying to find my way but it is tough. I look forward to hearing from you. By the way my saliva test showed that prog was low end of scale and estr. was high end of scale (as can be expected).
I also use vit d drops (1000mg) multi-vitamin, B5, EPA DHA.
Thanks Melissa

May 28, 2011
Baby then crazy
by: Melissa

did I mention that it feels like I have a lump in my throat all the time and I have trouble swallowing?

Jun 07, 2011
Started Progesterone Cream
by: Healing Arts

I am 52 and have suffered with hormonal migraines since 1988. After the birth of my son at 39, I had Post partum. Dr. put me on Prozac for PP and Zomig for migraines. Then I suffered from PMDD and Drs. put me on birth control and then antidepressants (Celexa, then Zoloft and then Wellbutrin) to counteract the birth control. Up until a month ago I had been on Loestrin and then Natazia with lots of hair loss and insomnia. Natazia made me very anxious so I cut it in half. Then I decided it was time to try something else. Today is Day 7 on Progesterone cream 10% VB CR 1/4 tsp 2-3 times a day. I have nausea, hot flashes and sweats. I feel bloated and with some excess around my middle. I am exhausted, still not sleeping, backache, joint aches. Frankly I feel terrible. I am in health and fitness so really cannot gain weight. My mood is fine, though, which was not the case in the past. What are youth thoughts? Thanks so very much.

Jun 11, 2011
Converting Progesterone Caps to Cream
by: VMR

Hi...

This is a great website!

Wondering if I could get your opinion on something. I am taking 200mg Progesterone Time Released Cap at bedtime from day 12 to menses (these are from a compounding pharmacy). They are working great for sleep and I have been feeling generally better overall (this is my second month using). It's nice that my insurance covers them, as well, but it seems cream is the best way to go. So if I wanted to convert to a cream instead, am I correct in assuming the 200mg oral the same as 20mg of the topical cream? Is it okay to add some cream for morning and then take the pills in the evening or is it best to get off the compounded pills all together and go cream only? Seems like there is definitely some room for me to increase my dosage from where I am currently at to get even better results. Thanks so much for your help!

Jun 14, 2011
WOW! Impressive forum
by: Emma

Hi Wray, I've been reading through your readers' questions and responses and am so impressed with how much knowledge you have about hormones. I recently started going to a clinic that specializes in hormonal balance for females. I arrived with classic symptoms of testosterone dominance (facial hair, loss of scalp hair, acne)with no other signs of PCOS (normal cycle, no insulin resistance, no weight issues) and my ZRT saliva results showed low estrogen (1.2), normal progesterone (117) but low ratio of prog/estrogen (98:1). Testosterone was on the upper edge of normal at 55. My provider prescribed 50 mg of progesterone cream per day, which I haven't started yet (waiting for ovulation). I'm wondering if I should just start out strong by doubling that dose to reach 100 mg, which is the low end of what you recommend? Just curious about what you would do. Vitamin D was low at 35 so am supplementing with 5000IU/day. Also take a multi, biotin, an herbal blend for balancing hormones (no clue about it, rec. by provider) and probiotics--will get some inositol and n-acetyl cysteine to start soon. Sorry about the long post, thank you for such a useful and informative site!

Jun 14, 2011
tabs
by: Anonymous

My doctor said the compounded tabs under the tongue have the best absorption of anything. That is what I take.

Jun 14, 2011
Burning
by: Rie

Does anyone have burning in their back when taking estrogen? I was told it would go away when I am balanced. But that doesn't help now. It's really severe.

Jun 17, 2011
progesteone cream in combination with other hormones?
by: Anonymous

Hello, I'm hoping that someone can help with my hormonal dilemma! Although I've been suffering and not feeling quite right for many years now, I've recently went to a naturalpathic doctor to find out that I'm in menopause. The past 1-2 years my symptoms have gone from bad to almost debilitating: mood swings, brain fog, poor concentration, irritability, depressed feeling, very low energy, no sex drive at all, and feeling overwhelmed and stressed over the smallest things. I am a diabetic and am about 60 lbs. overweight. The naturalpath doctor that I seen did a saliva test: progesterone, estrogen, Dhea, and cortisol. The tests came back: Estrodial 1.67, progesteone 70.30, ratio of Pg/E2 42.10, testosterone 28.92, DHEA 69.19 and morning cortisol 4.47. She said I had adrenal fatique and low levels of estrogen, DHEA and progesterone. She put me on a bioidentical cream consisting of estridial .4 and estriol 1.6, progesterone 100, and DHEA 10 1/2 oz. 2x/day. It did seem like my stress level went lower and I felt happier. But the new symptoms of sleeplessness and weight gain (about 4 lbs) over a 3 week period were too much too handle. So I called the compounding pharmacy and they told me to take 1/2 the dose 2x/week. I did and seemed to get hot flashes(something i didn't suffer from prior to and very irritable once again. I have to say I wasn't as consistent on twice/day as recommended. That cream lasted me about 2 months. I called my doctor to tell her what has been going on and she just talked over me. She prescribed me (which i haven't had filled yet) same amount of estrogen as last script, 150 progesterone instead of the 100 and testosteone (which she didn't put on prior) of 2.5 and DHEA capsules with hydrocortine 10 to take in morning. I don't feel that she really listens to me, and I'm fearful to try this new combination. Please and insight you could give me would be so greatly appreciated. I am so confused! Thanks, Sheryl

Jul 06, 2011
Progesterone Cream dosage etc
by: Anonymous

Hi, I am 44 yrs old, and I was diagnosed with fibroids several years ago. I have suffered irregular periods, significant hair growth on my face and acne primarily on the chin and jaw. I just started using (1 month ago) Natural Woman progesterone cream, twice daily, 1/4 tsp (20 milligrams) each dose. Am I using the correct dosage, and in your expert opinion do you believe this will help with heavy periods, fatigue, foggy brain and memory issues?

I am also taking B12, C, and Nicotanamide daily.

Michelle

Jul 13, 2011
Progesterone for breakthrough bleeding?
by: Lisa (UK)

Hi Wray,

I've just come across your website, and as you've provided so much helpful advice for other ladies, I'm really hoping you can help me.

I'm 41 years old, and have had problems with pre-menstrual spotting for years now. I had problems getting pregnant, but could never make the doctors believe that I had a problem with a short luteal phase. I came across progesterone cream, started using that, and got pregnant the very next month! This happened again with my next pregnancy, and left me convinced that I had a progesterone deficiency naturally.

After my second child I stopped breastfeeding after around 18 months, and immediately started having problems with premenstrual bleeding again (I presume as my hormone balance had changed). I went to the doctors, and had various checks/ultrasound exams, and they found nothing wrong. My GP tried me on the contraceptive pill, but I got migraines, so she wouldn't continue to prescribe it. So - back to the progesterone cream I went. After a few months I'd reduced a week of bleeding prior to my period down to 5 days. I then realised I wasn't using as much as the jar said, so I upped it to 1/8th teaspoon twice a day. Since I've increased the dose though, it's got worse, and I'm now bleeding for a week and a half before my period.

If you've managed to make it to the end of this(!), is there anything you can suggest? It's driving me nuts, and is having a very adverse effect on my lovelife!!

Many thanks in advance

Aug 29, 2011
Can't find right balance ??
by: Anonymous

Hi! I'm currently 33 yrs old and have worked with hormones levels for 3 years now. Problems started after my 2nd child was born (my children ar 2 years apart) and I began to feel horrible. After doing my own research, I wanted my hormones tested. My dr. said they could not do it. I knew they could. Had to keep seeking a dr. and finally found one to do saliva test. Progesterone was very low. I took the cream for 6 months and then my levels were showing too high. They could never really get me balanced out. I ended up quitting b/c it was expensive and not helping anyways. They finally resorted to Celexa. Took it for about 6 months and finally weaned off b/c of terrible side effects. I then found another dr. and got on 5htp which helped me get off the Celexa nicely and then this dr. gave me progesterone with testosterone and estrogen all together. Horrible, break outs, etc. I've currently seen ANOTHER dr. who doesn't know a whole lot about hormones but in a small town you are limited. The compounding pharmacy here said they have found that younger women often do better with smaller amounts. My pattern seems to be that I start it and feel good right at first and then it's as if it's doing nothing for me. I eventually quit but symptoms never really get better and end up looking for answers again.

So...at current, I have a 2% cream which is just over the counter, nothing compounded. I felt okay the first month, but the 2nd month, I'm angry, migraines are coming or feel as though on a verge of migraine often. Looking at a bright sun glare cant trigger it. I want to eat the house down. Does the progesterone cause this or is this the oestrogen domincance? I"m trying to figure out if I need to take more cream. I'm very sensitive to things I take.
Also, my vitamin D was low last year. Got it up to optimal level. Then this year was lower than last year, which was odd to me b/c I was still taking supplements but would just forget sometimes. I'm not taking supplements regularly to make sure I get it up again.

From my experience, dr.'s dismiss my complaints b/c they think I'm too young to have hormone troubles and some hormone dr.'s have no clue what they are doing or info contradicts. I know that my progesterone is low and would like to feel good.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Aug 29, 2011
forgot this (33 yr old post)
by: Anonymous

I started having bowel troubles earlier this year. I immediately thought it must be related to hormones b/c I would notice constipation around ovulation and just before period. Then it just got to where I am alternating constipation and then constant bowel movements. Of course, the dr's want to call it IBS. I just can't help but see that it's related. Just wanted to throw that in... Thanks.

Sep 06, 2011
confused!
by: Anonymous

I am completely confused by the information regarding dose of natural progestrone cream! I started using Natural progestrone cream by Biovea,6 days ago.Each measured dose gives 20mg which I have been using once a day to help with hot flashes and vaginal dryness and lack of libido!Then I found your fabulous page and it says here to take perhaps 200mg!!!

I had my bloods done in June Progestrone 0,10ng/ml and Estradiol 10pg/ml...FSH and LH were high ,indicative of menopause....no period since Feb this year.So,,,the question is...should I take 2 doses of 20mg daily and wait and see or step up the amount drastically?
I know it is early days yet,but I am still having hot flushes although these are worse when the outside temp goes above 30! I live in southern spain!

Thanks in anticipation for your reply.PS I had been taking sage capsules for the flashes but it as it is a drying herb, I stopped ...and the hot flashes came back!

Sep 18, 2011
Natural Progesterone and Thin Hair
by: Anonymous

I am 63 African American female and I have taken Pro-Gest cream for about 8-10 years. My gray hair has gotten increasingly thin and fuzzy. It is thinner than a silk strand and flies off my head in long strands. It does not hold a set and in any weather it looks like fuzz when I go outside. My center front top is getting very thin and hair is always over my clothing. Someone suggested that it is the natural progesterone cream that is doing it. Your thoughts, Wray?

Sep 24, 2011
Do I need to increase my dosage of cream?
by: Rachel

Hi Wray, I am 42 and experiencing some perimenopausal symptoms - ie changing in length of cycle, mood swings, fatigue etc. I have been using natpro since Nov 2010 so 10 months. At the time my cycle was regular and I started off on about 2.5ml twice a day which I think is 100-200mg of progesterone. I have been reducing it quite a lot recently. I know seem to be back to square one with return of cravings bloating and weight gain on stomach and thighs. I don't know whether to up the dose again or stop completely.

Around 3 or 4 yrs ago I first started using natpro and found it was fantastic at reducing my pms symptoms and all the water retention etc disappeared. After about 18 months I felt back to square one - I hadn't really reduced the dosage from the 100-200mg either. So I stopped altogether. Then felt I needed something and tried again last Nov.

I had read some negative things about the cream saying you can have too much and it gets stored in your skin and can take years for it to disperse etc and that it causes really bad cellulite and yeast infections. So that is what made me stop the first time.

I used to get constant thrush about 10 yrs ago but that had settled down. I find I am getting it again now though.

Sorry this is so long and rambling I just feel really confused. Do you know where I could have a hormone saliva test in the uk? - GP's will only do a blood test and I've heard that isn't accurate. I have never had any hormonal testing done.

I have been using magnesium spray for the last 6 months and that has helped with low moods and anxiety.

With the whole perimenopause starting I don't know where I am. Just hoping you could give me a bit of advice.

Thanks so much.

Sep 28, 2011
Desperate
by: Kristeen

I have been using a prescribed sublingual progesterone for three months now, which all started after I was diagnosed with uterine fibroids after I bled for the entire month of June with the exception of one week...

So fast forward to this month, (Sep) bled and spotted from just before the 12 days of my progesterone ended clear up until I started again on day 14, at a doubled dose (now 80mg nightly) after a frantic call to my ND...

I have not bled or spotted since, but sadly it is nearing time for me to have another cycle and I am supposed to stop taking the progesterone for another two weeks...

I don't want to stop taking it! finally my acne is starting to clear up, I have been without bleeding, I feel better, I am dealing well with things that are happening in my life right now (and going through a divorce) and I have been off of antidepressants successfully the entire time I have been taking the progesterone! I am dealing better now with things then I have in years...

So I repeat, I don't want to stop taking this!

I have been thinking about trying the cream, and thinking about using it every day...

I guess I should mention that I am 43, my tubes have been tied for 16 years, I dont want or need to ever get pregnant again.

I have been suffering for years with terrible cycles, heavy bleeding and clotting, these things have subsided since using the progesterone.

On my heavy bleed days my depression would be at an all time high, almost unbearable, dangerously so at times.

If I were to get the cream can I use it every day?

Sep 28, 2011
to the 33 year old...
by: Kristeen

I saw the post about your bowel troubles coinciding with your cycles, yes, me too! in my case I have found out through an ultra sound that my uterus is retroverted (i guess 1 in 5 women has that and sometimes it is caused by ligaments being stretched during pregnancy). I also have two uterine fiborids on the left side.

When my period was nearing I would get bowel issues, but worse than that I would often have some vaginal bleeding following a BM, which I have been told may have been because the fibroid was irritated by the BM as the uterus basically is sitting upon the bowels.

Not sure if that may be the situation in your case as well.

Sep 28, 2011
Update
by: Anonymous

Last time I posted, I was on progesterone cream and it was helping but I still had some issues with feeling jittery and feeling weak and unrested even though I had slept. I did check into insulin resistance and my blood work came back negative, matter of fact all my blood work was coming back negative for everything! So a year has passed and I'm feeling worse by the day. I felt like a walking zombie! Major brain fog, hair loss, extremely dry eyes, hair, skin and sinuouses. I started getting head aches on and off that eventually wouldn't go away. I also had carpel tunnel syndrome in both hands. I would have heart palpitations on and off. I also felt air hungery, like I was not breathing in enough. My weight kept going up for no reason! I was exercising everyday and eventually got so weak I had to stop. I even stopped wearing my high heels because my legs would just buckle under me. I would have to go sit down after getting dressed because I was out of breath. All I wanted to do was sleep. After much desperation and Doctors telling me I was fine, I did my own home work and found there was a lot of people like me with the same symptoms and still suffering because their blood work was normal! Turns out I am Hypothyroid. Thank goodness my new Doctor listened!!!! I told him what I had and what I wanted to take and now I'm on the road to recovery. So if your still having problems after taking the cream please do your research, you could have more going on.

Oct 05, 2011
33 and progesterone cream
by: db

I am 33 years old and started taking a bio-identical progesterone cream about 4 months ago. Since then, my moods and PMS may be somewhat better, but my skin and hair is getting very oily and I have more break-outs than normal, pimples in places like on my neck or back of head. I have no children and don't plan on having them. Just wondering what are some side effects of too much progesterone. Aslo, I gained 20 pounds in 8 months and the doctor said that lack of progesterone could be the problem but nothing has changes since i started the treatment.

Oct 28, 2011
When to discontinue progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Rosey I've missed many queries on this page, and can only apologise. This reply will be far too late too. Needless to say I will answer it. I'm pleased the progesterone has helped you, but I don't believe you have been using enough, maybe for the minor issues, but not the fertility ones. It's difficult to overload the system with progesterone, after all we can make over 400ng/ml in the third trimester. Lack of ovulation can be caused by many things, one of which is low progesterone. This causes LH to increase, but too high a level of LH suppresses progesterone, so a vicious cycle starts. Agnus castus has been used for many problems which women suffer from. It also reduces prolactin levels, which in turn can cause luteal phase dysfunction, with subsequent problems in embryo implantation, see here. It has a mild oestrogenic action, so levels of 17 beta-oestradiol can increase. We do have a page on Pregnancy which explains the role progesterone plays and how to use it. Please have a vitamin D test done, this is a vital nutrient for normal ovarian function, ovulation, conception and pregnancy, especially for the growth of the foetus. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
When to discontinue progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Rosey The one thing doctors never check are vitamin D levels. This is vital for normal ovarian function, for ovulation, conception, a successful pregnancy. And vital too for the growth of the foetus, see here, here, here, here and here. These are excellent videos to watch too, see here and here. Please have a test done. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray





Oct 30, 2011
Symptoms due to cream or Mirena?
by: Wray

Hi Kathy I can only apologise for the late reply, I have no idea why I missed all these posts. All Contraceptives have the potential to cause harm, not least the Mirena. This does not supply progesterone but a progestin called levornogestrel, see here. I recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone, to my mind the 40mg/day you are using is far too low. Progesterone should be used a minimum of twice a day too, as levels drop after 13hrs. Whether the symptoms are from the low progesterone or the levornogestrel, is hard to say, as both can cause them. Progesterone does stop heavy bleeding, but 400mg/day and over are needed. We have more info on how to use it on our Peri-menopause page. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Need Estrogen AND Progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi there I'm so sorry I haven't responded to your query, far too late now. But I will answer it in the hopes you'll get it. Yes we do need oestrogen, but I'm not in favour of adding more, the risks to my mind are not worth it, see our page on HRT. We've found from Saliva Tests we run that the ratio of P/E2 should be 600:1 and over to feel well. Your ratio at the moment is skewed in favour of oestrogen, hence the symptoms you have. All typical of Oestrogen Dominance. It's essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. Stress drops progesterone levels, oestrogen suppresses progesterone, so your level is far lower than it should be. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Maybe I should have started with the progesterone tabs?
by: Wray

Hi there I apologise for this very late reply, here's hoping you get it. I don't believe any of us needs extra oestrogen, we have far too much as it is in our food, water, air and the skin care products we use, particularly sunscreens. There are over 100 oestrogen mimics now, see Our Stolen Future. The only way to counter them is by using progesterone. So I would only recommend progesterone. For more info see our page on How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Bloated from ovulation through period.
by: Wray

Hi MKF Oestrogen causes water retention, so this could be one reason. All Contraceptives have the potential to cause harm, plus they cause Insulin Resistance. This can lead to weight gain in general, but particularly on the abdomen. It could be your testosterone is too high, as this causes visceral fat to increase, see here and here. You could try progesterone again, I suspect you used the normal recommendation of 20-40mg/day. I've found 100-200mg/day is needed to reverse any adverse symptoms. We do have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Unbalanced Hormones?
by: Wray

Hi KK Many apologies for this late reply. You are now in the beginning stages of Peri-menopause. Progesterone levels are dropping due to anovulation, but oestrogen is still at normal levels. Oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, hence the thickened lining. To reverse this you would need to use progesterone, I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. But before you consider using it, please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance first, as this can occur. Progesterone does help libido, but please have patience as it's not a quick fix. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Baby then crazy
by: Wray

Hi Melissa So sorry about this late reply, I've missed so many posts on the page. I'm also sorry to hear you're still struggling. I don't believe you are using anywhere enough progesterone. I recommend 100-200mg/day, or more if symptoms are severe, are you using this much? There's more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. The lump in the throat could be caused by excess oestrogen, it causes smooth muscle to constrict. We also have a page on Anxiety, this gives a list of nutrients all known to help anxiety. Please consider taking some of them. Vitamin D is good, but you are not taking anywhere near enough. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. A lack of vitamin D causes depression, plus it reduces the benefits of progesterone. Please have a test done, blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Started Progesterone Cream
by: Wray

Hi there I apologise about this very late reply, and only hope you get it. Progesterone drops sharply after birth, sending 25% of women into depression, from the baby blues to post natal psychosis. Evidently you needed progesterone immediately after giving birth, see here. The amount of progesterone you are using is very good, it's giving you up to 375mg/day. Unfortunately it can initially cause Oestrogen Dominance, you obviously weren't warned about this. I would hope by now it has passed, and that you haven't given up. We do have more info on our Menopause page. You should have been given progesterone for the catamenial migraines too, it's very helpful, see here, here, here, here, here and here. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Converting Progesterone Caps to Cream
by: Wray

Hi VMR I do apologise about this late reply, I've missed so many on this page. Although only about 10-20% of oral progesterone is available after ingestion, I would never recommend 20mg/day via a cream. In fact I recommend 100-200mg/day, as I've found anything less for bad symptoms doesn't help, and can make things worse. If you do swop over, I strongly suggest you use somewhere within the 100-200mg/day. It's easy enough to reduce if you feel you could do with less. Please be aware Oestrogen Dominance can occur when changing to a cream, as far more progesterone is available. We also have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. As I'm so late in replying I've no idea what you have decided, but I always feel it's a pity to waste progesterone even if oral. Instead I suggest opening the cap and adding the contents to a cold pressed oil, or natural skin cream, and rubbing that on instead. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
WOW! Impressive forum
by: Wray

Hi Emma I've missed so many posts on this page, so I do apologise about the late reply. I hope you followed your suggestions, as they are all excellent. Although I feel you could do with more progesterone, and suggest 150-200mg/day. I think you'll find Oestrogen Dominance kicks in, so if it does increase the amount until symptoms pass, then reduce slowly. Testosterone can increase without having PCOS. A low level of SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) allows testosterone to rise. Fructose, sucrose and glucose reduce levels of SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. So please avoid all sugars, and all hidden sugars too. By this I mean those found in grains and sweet starchy veggies and fruit. The sugars and starches in these all convert to glucose. I'm delighted you're taking 5000iu's per day vitamin D, although you might be interested to hear that the latest research suggests 10,000iu's per day, see here. Thanks for the kind words! Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
tabs
by: Wray

Hi there The buccal cavity does absorb progesterone well, but it means holding it in your mouth for about 1/2 hr to allow full absorption. It's very bitter too, so not a pleasant way to take it. There is evidence that some of it is swallowed before it's absorbed, so will be lost to circulation. We do have more info on our Delivery systems page. Using a fixed dose every day doesn't allow for any ups and downs which can be experienced. Tabs are not very versatile either. For instance stress drops progesterone sharply, so more should be used to prevent symptoms coming back. It's excellent for burns and abrasions too, plus helps vaginal dryness and inflammation. We do have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Burning
by: Wray

Hi Rie I have no experience of using oestrogen, never having tried it. But it is an inflammatory hormone, so it doesn't surprise me you have adverse symptoms. I would never recommend it to anyone, we have more info on our HRT page. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
progesteone cream in combination with other hormones?
by: Wray

Hi Sheryl I'm so sorry this is such a late reply. It's such a hodgepodge of drugs you've been given! I don't believe any of us need more oestrogen, see our page on HRT. DHEA should never be given to a woman as it increases testosterone levels, thereby increasing the risk of ovarian cysts and cancer, see here, here, here and here. Testosterone itself should never be given to a woman either, it increases visceral fat, so I'm not surprised you've put on weight. Plus it increases the risk of heart disease and cancer, see here, here, here, here, here here, here, here, here and here. There are no adverse side effects attributable to progesterone, I really suggest you stick to that only. I recommend 100-200mg/day, so the 150mg your doctor has prescribed fits nicely. We have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. But please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first. Take care Wray


Oct 30, 2011
Progesterone Cream dosage etc
by: Wray

Hi Michelle I'm so sorry this is such a late reply. You are now in the beginning stages of Peri-menopause with dropping progesterone levels and normal oestrogen. Fibroids are caused by oxidative stress, oestrogen exacerbates symptoms as it's a mitogen. Meaning it causes cells to multiply and divide, plus it's an inflammatory hormone. The 40mg/day progesterone you are using is not sufficient to help, it needs to be at least 100-200mg/day, possibly more. Progesterone does help heavy periods, but sufficient must be used to get it under control. I've found 400mg/day is needed if severe. It will help your other symptoms too, but please use enough. Oestrogen Dominance can occur, particularly if you increase the amount of progesterone. If it should, increase it further until symptoms go. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Progesterone for breakthrough bleeding?
by: Wray

Hi Lisa Another missed post, I'm so sorry about this, I've no idea how I could miss so many. I'm delighted you tried progesterone in the past and that it helped you. All Contraceptives have the potential to cause harm, most of them reduce progesterone levels too. It doesn't surprise me you had migraines on them, in fact progesterone is very helpful, see here, here, here, here, here and here. I'm not sure how much progesterone you're using, but 1/4tsp of a normal strength cream is not sufficient. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. The reason you've had an adverse reaction to increasing the progesterone is explained on our Oestrogen Dominance page. If you should consider increasing to the amount I suggest, please be aware oestrogen dominance symptoms can occur again. In which case increase it further until they go, then reduce slowly. We have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray



Oct 30, 2011
Can't find right balance ??
by: Wray

Hi there I do apologise for this late reply, which I hope you receive. It appears you had PND after your 2nd child, progesterone should have be given immediately after birth, or when symptoms became apparent, see here. Progesterone drops sharply after birth, serotonin too. Progesterone helps raise serotonin levels, so does 5HTP and it's precursor tryptophan. The B vitamin inositol also raises serotonin levels. We do have a page on Anxiety you might like to look through. I've found age, size, weight and height have no bearing on how much progesterone is needed. It's entirely dependant on symptoms. For instance Dr Dalton would give her patients who had post natal psychosis, all young of course, 2400mg/day progesterone. TBI victims are given over 1200mg/day via IV transfusion, over 70% of these are young men. We have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. The reason you feel slightly better when starting it, and then it seems to do nothing, or symptoms get worse is explained on our Oestrogen Dominance page. Please use sufficient, I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. Progesterone is very helpful for migraines, see here, here, here, here, here and here. I've run out of space so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Can't find right balance ??
by: Wray

Hi there Vitamin D is also helpful for migraines, see here, here and here. I suspect your optimal level was not, as blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
forgot this (33 yr old post)
by: Wray

Hi there The constipation doesn't surprise me. Oestrogen causes water retention in the tissues, it does this by taking water from the bowel. Levels peak at ovulation, whereas progesterone, which is an excellent diuretic, is very low. The few days before a period progesterone drops sharply, but oestrogen often falls at a slower rate. This skewed ratio would again make oestrogen the dominant hormone, and constipation could result. If you should consider progesterone please make sure you use sufficient. I recommend 100-200mg/day, dependant on symptoms. We do have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. But before starting it please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance. It could be your vitamin D level is too low too, please have a test done. It's also vital for a normal functioning gut, see here and here. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
confused!
by: Wray

Hi there I'm so sorry about the late reply, I've been apologising to dozens it seems. Yes it is confusing when I recommend up to 10 times the amount everyone else does! But from using it for 15 years, helping countless men and women, I've found the amount does have to be high if it's going to help. Women can make up to 20ng/ml during the luteal phase, if that's not helping why would using 20mg/day as a supplement help?! If symptoms are severe far more is needed, the same goes for men too. I've found 400mg/day or more is needed to stop hot flushes, use that amount of progesterone until they go, then reduce very slowly otherwise they come back. I've also found it excellent for vaginal dryness, I use some in my vagina every night. Progesterone must be used at least twice a day, as levels drop after about 13 hrs. I suggest you rub some on every time you feel a hot flush coming. As you're now in the end stages of Peri-menopause and the beginning of Menopause progesterone can be used daily. I've done this ever since I started using it towards the end of P-M, even when I had regular cycles, as my symptoms came back when stopping. It's entirely up to you if you want to take a break. Please be aware that your uterine lining has been building slowly over the months since Feb, so if you do increase the amount of progesterone, you could have a period. This usually only occurs once, rarely twice. And if you do increase it, please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first, as this can occur. Sage is recommended to men who have hot flushes, I haven't yet met a woman who has taken it. Interesting it helps, although it does have slight oestrogenic properties. And I empathise with you when it's hot and the flushes get worse! I wasn't sure which was worse, the depression I had or the hot flushes. Luckily both gone now! Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Natural Progesterone and Thin Hair
by: Wray

Hi there So sorry about the late reply, I do hope you get it. Progesterone actually helps hair growth, hence the lovely hair most women get when pregnant. I suspect it's the amount you're using, which is only about 20mg/application. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are bad. If progesterone is too low, it can stimulate oestrogen. But prior to oestrogen being formed, testosterone is formed first. This is then converted by the theca cells in the ovaries to oestrogen. Excess testosterone is behind scalp hair loss and facial hair. Plus the fact that the menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, see here. I would suggest you increase it, but I must warn you that Oestrogen Dominance will probably occur. You could also consider taking 2000-4000mg/day inositol, often called the anti-alopecia vitamin. 100mg/day thiamine (B1), 2-5mg/day biotin, and 5000iu's per day vitamin D, this is essential for the anagen growth phase in hair. As vitamin D is low in most of us, please have a test done. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray


Oct 30, 2011
Do I need to increase my dosage of cream?
by: Wray

Hi Rachel I'm so sorry about the late reply, I've lost count on all the people I've apologised to now. I'm pleased the progesterone helped you, but it seems as if Oestrogen Dominance has kicked in. 2.5ml twice a day is giving you about 170mg/day progesterone, but you say you have reduced it. This would account for the bad symptoms. Peri-menopause is such a difficult time, with dropping progesterone levels, but normal oestrogen. The symptoms experienced are very stressful too, and stress drops progesterone levels. So I would advise increasing it, as you say you felt you needed something. I'm sure its only P-M which is rearing it's ugly head. There are many myths as I call them, about progesterone, one is that it saturates the fatty layer. I get asked this question so often. I don't believe it's true, although I have only found one paper to date which backs up my argument, see here. It states?" Despite the low serum progesterone levels achieved with the creams, salivary progesterone levels are very high, indicating that progesterone levels in serum do not necessarily reflect those in tissues." If the fatty tissues were indeed saturated, and little progesterone was 'escaping', the study would have found the reverse, i.e. low saliva levels. From Saliva Tests we run, it's evident the progesterone is getting around. The tests are done by a naturopath in the UK, and she does a before and after test for comparison. You'll see levels have risen dramatically, but more to the point the women were feeling well. As for Candida, progesterone is very helpful, whereas excess oestrogen causes glycogen to rise in the vagina and the candida have a field day! I'm running out of space so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Do I need to increase my dosage of cream?
by: Wray

Hi Rachel Please have a vitamin D test done, most of us have too low a level, and those living in the UK and northerly latitudes even lower. A lack of this vital nutrient reduces the benefits of progesterone, plus it's needed by every cell to function normally. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Birmingham Hospital now do test kits for £20 which they will send to you. And Genova Diagnostics do our saliva tests for us, they're based in Surrey. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Desperate
by: Wray

Hi Kristeen I'm so sorry about this late reply, particularly as you needed a quick answer. I don't believe oral progesterone, be it sublingual drops, troches or caps are the best Delivery system. Although the 80mg seemed to help you, I've found if the bleeding is very bad, 400mg/day and over are needed to stop it. And there's no need to take a break with the progesterone. In fact I often recommend women use it for 2-3 months to begin with if they have severe symptoms, before attempting to follow a cycle. If you haven't already done so, please use it daily. Only when you feel stable should you consider following your cycle again. Some women use it daily for 6 months or more. I do recommend 100-200mg/day or more if symptoms are bad, it's a question of experimenting as you go. Please be aware Oestrogen Dominance can occur when you increase progesterone. If this should happen, please increase yet further until symptoms go. Then reduce slowly till you find the optimum, not forgetting that stress drops levels. Please use more if stressed. Progesterone should be used at least twice a day, as levels drop after about 13hrs. We also have a page on Acne you might like to read through. Plus one on Fibroids. I'm delighted you are off the AD's with the help of progesterone. There are other nutrients which help depression too, all listed on our Anxiety page. Please have a vitamin D test done, a lack of this vital nutrient can cause depression, plus the benefit of progesterone is reduced. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
to the 33 year old...
by: Wray

Hi Kristeen I've given an explanation to the 33 yr old, which I hope helps you too. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
Update
by: Wray

Hi there So sorry about the late reply. It appears you weren't using enough progesterone, maybe 20-40mg/day? Progesterone is excellent for myopathy or muscular weakness. I had this and thank heavens it's gone now. The unfortunate thing about blood tests, saliva too, is the ratio of P/E2 is never checked. So both could be in the normal range, but if progesterone is low normal and oestrogen high normal, all hell can break loose. The brain fog, hair loss, extremely dry eyes, hair and skin, the headaches and heart palpitations are caused by excess oestrogen and a lack of progesterone. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. Oestrogen is a mitogen, causing weight gain, plus it causes water retention too. Surely in the blood work you had done they would have checked for your thyroid hormones too, it's very strange they didn't. Thyroid problems, see here, here and here, myopathy too, see here, can be caused by a lack of vitamin D, please consider having a test done. It could be you need nothing more than this. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2011
33 and progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi DB I would have to know how much progesterone you are using to help further. But it appears to be far too little, you shouldn't be getting oily hair or skin breakouts. And your moods and PMS should be much better by now. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. Progesterone is thermogenic, so does speed metabolism slightly, but can't be regarded as a weight loss solution. Please consider increasing the amount you're using, but please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first as this can occur. Take care Wray

Nov 04, 2011
How much progesterone cream is safe in pregnancy
by: Anonymous

Hi There

Just wondering how much progesterone cream is safe in pregnancy, I have had 2 previous miscarriage due to low progesterone, the second miscarriage occured when I stopped the supposetries at 10 weeks, this time round I wont be coming off the progesterone cream, I am on 90mg a day, and at 14 and 1/2 weeks is this safe, and are there any known problems with staying on natural progesterone cream thoughout pregnancy

Thanks

Nov 04, 2011
Candida
by: Anonymous

I was reading somewhere that progesterone can actually feed candida if you have that and make you feel worse. I never did well on progesterone cream no matter how much I used so I stopped using it--but my symptoms are clearly estrogen dominance. I have recently had a test done that came back showing I do have some yeast issues going on. Have you ever heard of this Wray??
Thanks!
Angel

Nov 07, 2011
How much progesterone cream is safe in pregnancy
by: Wray

Hi there Looking at all the studies done on miscarriages and progesterone, the amount given varies between 200-600mg/day. I've found nothing less than 200mg. Something I can't get my head around is women using progesterone to prevent miscarriages are told to just stop it, ie go cold turkey. As many miscarriages are caused by a sudden drop in progesterone levels, it's hardly surprising stopping the suppositories would also cause one! And being told to stop them at 10 weeks couldn't have been timed worse. For the first 8 weeks of pregnancy the corpus luteum normally produces enough progesterone to sustain a pregnancy. Round about 8 weeks the placenta begins to take over production, but production is low. And if it too low a miscarriage occurs. It's always safest to use progesterone for a full 3-4 months to be safe. We do have a page on Pregnancy which gives further info. Dr Dalton would keep her patients with threatened miscarriages on progesterone the entire pregnancy. Take care Wray

Nov 08, 2011
Candida
by: Wray

Hi Angel There is this myth circulating that candida feeds off progesterone, and it's so misleading. Candida is a fungus, it cannot live off a hormone. It needs a diet high in sugar, refined grains, processed food and fruit. Progesterone is protective, whereas oestrogen is not. Oestrogen not only increases it's virulence by converting it from the yeast form to the mycelial form. But reduces the ability of the vagina to inhibit it's growth. Furthermore oestrogen stimulates the production of glycogen which provides a food for candida. You'll find all the papers giving you these facts on the link I've given above. So it doesn't surprise me you have candida, if as you say you are clearly oestrogen dominant. Plus you say you have some yeast issues. When you say you used a lot of progesterone, how much was a lot? I recommend 100-200mg/day or more if symptoms are severe. It appears to me you needed far more progesterone than you were using to overcome the obvious Oestrogen Dominance you suffered when using progesterone. Please consider trying it again, and use as much as you need to stop the adverse symptoms. For encouragement you might like to read these comments from users of high amounts, see here, here, here, here and here. Plus this comment from a user who was given 400mg/day by her doctor, see here. Take care Wray

Dec 03, 2011
23 Year old, no period, anxiety, fatigue, irritability, constipation
by: Sylvia

Hi Wray,
I am 23 years old. About 5 (2005/2006) years ago I started taking Ortho-tricyclen birth control because I was sexually active. About a year later I stopped the pill. I then started to break out terribly, something I never experienced before so I continuously went to the dermatologist and was prescribed all the medicine and antibiotics you can think of besides accutane but nothing really helped.
About 4 years ago (2006) (around the time of the acne) I started having constipation which caused anal fissures. I had 2 colonoscopies done and doctors continue to say nothing is wrong. They informed me I needed to just increase my fiber (which only helped a little bit.) I gave up on the doctors because they kept telling me the same thing.
Back to the acne issue, I finally gave up and decided to go on birth control again for about 8 months or so. This helped. I then stopped because I didn't want to be on birth control. The acne returned and in April of 2008 I decided to go back on birth control and the acne cleared up. Well I stopped this after about 7 months because I had gained 20lbs. It was the most I had ever weighed in my life and I never had weight issues or thought twice about what I ate prior to this. I then went on a diet for the first time (2009).
Also, around the time I stopped my last round of birth control, I stopped having my period naturally. The only times I did or even had spotting was because it was induced by Provera which the doctors prescribed me. They also informed me it was not medically necessary for me to have a period (which I do not believe).
I had no self esteem, started obsessing about food and weight, and I isolated myself.
Well in 2011 I decided to go to Korea to teach English and be with my family. I thought my low self esteem, anxiety and depression was due to my routine life of school and work. I went to Korea and instead of staying for a year I ended up leaving after just 4 months because my anxiety, depression, and food/weight obsessions intensified.
That leaves me to the present, still suffering from low self esteem, fatigue, irritable moods, anxiety, and binging.
I've had blood work done showing I have high testosterone. My estrogen level is greater than 32 but less than the lowest average a woman would have in the luteal phase which makes me suspect I'm low on estrogen even though the doctors say it's normal.
I've been able to treat my constipation for the first time in years with probiotics.
My hair has been falling out more than usual, I have anxiety, acne, constant headaches, fatigue, lower left back pain, and cold hands and feet. I did look in past records which showed I had high cholesterol (the bad kind).
I am so desperate for help and answers. Please help if you can.

Sincerely,
Sylvia

Dec 05, 2011
new symptoms
by: Anonymous

I've been taking prometrium 200mg twice daily as supp. for about 3 yrs, been taking divigel 1mg for about 2 weeks. Before I started the divigel my estradiol levels were low. She said my progesterone levels were normal, dont have the lab results available right now. I was feeling good the last several months then had to go back to Dr. because Im producing milk from both breast. The Dr. thought maybe my estradiol was high but it wasnt. She checked my prolactin levels and my fsh levels and said my fsh level was lower than it usually is with lab work. My prolactin was normal and so was my thyroid levels. I have been having severe night sweats, skin really oily and I look like Im pregnant, gaining weight rapidly. Dont know what to do now, just wondering if you had any suggestions?

Dec 05, 2011
23 Year old, no period, anxiety, fatigue, irritability, constipation
by: Wray

Hi Sylvia I'm hoping there's no other 23 yr old with the same awful experience! As I'm sure I've answered you on another page. You started the comment by saying……'This is my first time blogging and I hope someone can read and help me save my life.' The link to it is here. Take care Wray

Dec 05, 2011
new symptoms
by: Wray

Hi there I'm delighted you've been using so much progesterone. I take it you must be in Menopause now? Oestradiol can range from 0 - 30 pg/ml in menopause, see here. It should be low, it drops at menopause as the ovaries are no longer making any. But our fat cells continue to make oestrone, which is never tested for. Did the milk start after you began the HRT or before? I'm puzzled you say your prolactin levels are normal, as this is the hormone of lactogenesis. Normal levels range from 2 - 29 ng/mL, see here. The oily skin and gaining weight rapidly over your stomach point to high testosterone, but you don't mention this. In fact the menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, see here. Testosterone is notorious at increasing visceral fat, see here and here. Progesterone does suppress it, see here. You are using a very good amount, but something has upset your equilibrium, please come back to me about when you started the divigel. And have you been through more stress recently, as this drops progesterone levels. Oestradiol does too. Take care Wray

Dec 05, 2011
new symptoms
by: Anonymous

Thanks wray. I was on the vivelle .1 mg twice a week for couple months, then stopped it for about a month then about 3 weeks or so later started having these symptoms before starting the divigel. I don't take any testosterone

Dec 05, 2011
Atrial Fibrillation/SVT
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,

Thanks for clarifying about the Candida. I didn't think it was true but wanted to be sure.

Now I have another issue..well actually a new and old one. I have had SVT(supraventricular tachychardia) for years. My heartrate will sometimes go up to 250bpm. Last week right at ovulation I thought I was having an SVT episode but I ended up going to the ER and told that my heart was actually in Atrial Fibrillation. So scary! So now I am on Beta Blockers to keep my heart rate down and hopefully from going out of rhythm again. Tell me if you have heard of estrogen dominance causing this. I was on day 12 of my cycle and had all the signs of ovulation going on.

And I had been on up to 100mg for progesterone cream last December...I stopped in March because my heart started racing too much.

Thanks!
Angel

Dec 08, 2011
Can't Find Balance??
by: Anonymous

Hi, I'm the 33 year old, now 34. I'm still having the worst trouble getting balanced. I took more for one cycle. I had the most awful headaches in the back of my head that traveled all the way down my neck. I felt awful for two weeks while I was taking it. Once I stopped, I got better (well, not that terrible state anyways)

I have had one month this year where I Just felt great and knew I was in balance and I was actually taking less progesterone. The next month, I noticed I felt ill with that amount and decreased it and then felt a little better again. After a few months of thinking it was going better, I'm now back to having no idea. I was very irritable and feeling awful a few days ago and rubbed on the cream, and I got better for days. Now, I'm grumpy as everything.

Don't know whether to take it or not. It's so frustrating. I get these weird feelings in my head. I have headaches, but it's almost like I feel changes in my brain taking place, if that makes sense. Something with all this is messing with stuff in my head as I can feel it. When I start feeling out of whack, my blood sugar is all over the place as well. I currently use a 2% cream b/c the ones I was working with felt like I needed less cream b/c the more was not working. Do you have any further suggestions? I'm still suffering with the bowel problems which I've never had. I know there is something wrong but everytime I take a saliva test, it shows things are great except the progesterone so then I try to supplement with no lasting success.

I get these nagging headaches in the afternoons that are not migraines but just nag. I know something is off but can't seem to find out what will help. The depression I had after the birth of my son is better and nearly non-existant. My main complaint now is anger, I mean really anger which I've never had like this before in my life. It makes being a good wife and mommy hard!
Thanks for any further advice you have and thanks for responding.

Dec 10, 2011
new symptoms
by: Wray

Hi there When I referred to the testosterone, I meant had they checked your levels, as this is could explain the oily skin and pregnant look. Divigel can cause galactorrhea, see here. Scroll down to side effects for the professional. I suggest you stop it and see if that clear up the problem. You might like to look at our page on HRT, I don't believe any oestrogen is worth the risks. Take care Wray

Dec 10, 2011
Atrial Fibrillation/SVT
by: Wray

Hi Angel Oestrogen does cause the heart to race, and at ovulation it reaches a peak, take a look at this Chart which shows how the hormones behave during the month. You'll notice oestrogen peaks again mid-luteal phase, but so does progesterone. This normally prevents any Oestrogen Dominance. You don't need beta blockers, you need to suppress excess oestrogen. Oestrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here and here. Interestingly women suffer from a long QT interval, men rarely. This is understandable when you realise how much oestrogen we make compared to men! Please check your magnesium and potassium levels, they could be low. Magnesium is low in our soils and therefore food. Both these minerals are vital to the heart, calcium too, but calcium is an excitatory mineral, whereas magnesium is calming. The reason your heart started racing while using the progesterone was oestrogen was being stimulated. 100mg/day is the barest minimum I recommend. I can understand why you stopped it, a malfunctioning heart is scary! You'll notice in one paper how it says progesterone is protective, but it will take courage on your part to try it again. If you do I would ask you to do it under supervision, you'll have to find a sympathetic practitioner. Give him the papers to read, in case he's not heard of progesterone's calming effect. And I would use no less than 400mg/day, this rarely if ever causes oestrogen dominance symptoms. It immediately suppresses any stimulatory effect. You won't have to stay on that amount forever, only until the oestrogen level has been lowered. Once you feel stable, begin reducing by no more than 16mg/day. Each time you reduce stay on that amount for a few days, until reducing again. If you can do this you won't need the beta blockers, which undoubtedly they'll tell you to stay on forever. Continued below. Take care Wray

Dec 10, 2011
Atrial Fibrillation/SVT Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Angel Please consider taking taurine, it's a very calming amino acid, vital for the heart, there's more in the heart than any other organ or tissue, see here and here. It's an osmolyte, controlling the flow of the four electrolytes, calcium, magnesium, potassium and sodium. I used to take magnesium for my calf cramps, until I discovered taurine, now I never get them, unless I forget to take it! Evidently I was taking in enough magnesium in my food, but insufficient taurine. It's not found in the vegetable kingdom, only in animal protein. Please have a vitamin D test done, it's also vital for the heart, see here, here and here. Plus a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more info on levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Dec 10, 2011
Can't Find Balance??
by: Wray

Hi there I still believe you're not using enough progesterone, and that you're only suffering from Oestrogen Dominance by using too low an amount. You don't mention how much you were using, but it appears you could do with at least 200mg/day or more. Were you using this much? By decreasing the amount of progesterone you would feel relief. It sounds paradoxical, but the progesterone is no longer stimulating the excess oestrogen you evidently have. The feelings in your head do make sense, progesterone is a potent neurosteroid, our brains make it continuously. Partly to protect neurons and to re-myelinate the nerve sheath, see here. Oestrogen is an inflammatory hormone, implicated in headaches and migraines. Progesterone on the other hand is helpful for them, see here, here, here, here, here and here. Progesterone also helps anger too, see here, here, here, here and here. Please consider using far more progesterone than you currently are. It might be an idea to use it continuously for 2-3 months, through your period too. This will give progesterone time to suppress excess oestrogen, and prevent it rising again when you take the break. To get back to following your cycle, please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Dec 10, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Anonymous

Thanks so much for response. What you say makes perfect sense. When I read your site months ago, I did just that, tried more. I had HORRIBLE headaches and the only thing I could find online to describe them was tension headaches. The back of my head was killing me and down into my neck. Felt like something was constantly squeezing my head for two weeks while I took more. When I quit using the cream, headaches were gone.

I am using a 3% cream and they recommended it twice a day. On the one month where I felt incredible I was using it that way. The next month after that, I noticed I had to use less in order to feel good. The next month, less and then haywire again. I've been at this progesterone things for 3 1/2 years now and have never found a consistent thing that helps. It totally messes with my mind to where I am now feeling anxiety and I've never had anger or anxiety issues. I feel like a roller coaster. So, if you say use more cream, can I do that with the 3% cream I have got.

And does it take a few months for the progesterone to overcome the estrogen. In addition to headaches, I have palpitations. My heart has been checked and is fine. I crave sugar like crazy. I know everything points to the fact that there is not enough progesterone to balance the estrogen but why can't I seem to find relief even when I used more? I noticed when I have more than I need, it seems like I get very ill. My anger is intense. My mind will get hard for me to think , etc. I could go on and on, but I do appreciate your insights.

Dec 11, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Wray

Hi there It is confusing, particularly as so many advise using amounts of 20-40mg/ml, and I say use 10 times that amount! During the luteal phase the body normally makes 5-20ng/ml per day, occasionally up to 40ng/ml. If this was sufficient to suppress excess oestrogen and prevent adverse symptoms we wouldn't have them. I have also found that once a symptom has begun, it takes far more progesterone to relieve it, than it does if it's used as a preventative. Your sugar cravings are in part caused by excess oestrogen, progesterone normally helps. And the palpitations too, oestrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here and here. They won't find anything wrong with your heart, unless they check the QT length. A 3% cream is fine, it's the weaker ones which work out so costly as you have to use so much. I would suggest you use 200mg/day, this means you need to use 7ml of cream or one and a third teaspoons. Divide this into two applications, using some in the morning, some at night. If at any time you feel you need some, use it, many women use it hourly. Take care Wray

Dec 12, 2011
StillConfused?
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray. I really appreciate your help. I figured out how much of my cream to take and it comes out to 210mg a day divided into two doses like you said. I feel a slight lifting of some symptoms I believe, just after 1 1/2 days of using this much. I will continue this. I am approaching time for my period, so you are saying to just keep on with the cream and not take a break for bleeding, is that correct? And if I do this for 2-3 months as you suggested previously, at what point do you know that the oestrogen is suppressed? And if the oestrogen does get suppressed properly during this time, do you just lessen the progesterone dose and see how you feel?
I'm not trying to jump ahead of myself here, I'm just curious as to see how this all works out. If one took a saliva test during this time of taking so much, would the test show that levels are very high. I'm just curious. I'm not planning on testing mine right now but I know in the past they tested me again several months after my first beginning progesterone, 40mg dose, and the dr. said my progesterone levels were too high and so they lessened my dose. It seemed to just cause me much grief and the dr. said she had never had anyone be like I was (couldnt figure me out). I am going to stick with trying this and I'll post more. THANKS SO MUCH!!!

Dec 12, 2011
StillConfused?
by: Wray

Hi there I'm glad you figured out how much to use and a good amount too. I'm sure this will continue to help you. And yes, try using it through your period, no harm is done. It could upset it a bit by making it earlier or later, but I feel a small price to pay for feeing better. I suggest 2-3 months as generally it takes this long on a high amount to come right. But there are some women who need longer, some less. The only way to tell is by stopping the cream when you feel ready to. If symptoms come back it's too soon so start the progesterone again. If they don't then you know you're topped up with progesterone. We do have info on how to get your cycle back again on our page How to use progesterone cream If in the few days before you bleed you feel symptoms coming back, increase the progesterone for those few days, then gradually reduce again. Once you're back following your cycle gradually reduce the cream by no more than 16mg/day of progesterone. Stay on the reduced amount till you feel stable, then reduce again. You'll know when you've gone too low as symptoms come back. As for your doctor saying she's never had anyone like you, most women are like that! Reducing too low causes symptoms to come back, as simple as that. Understandable actually, as it gives oestrogen a chance to rise again. You might like to see the results of Saliva Tests we run. A naturopath in the UK does them for us, and you'll see how high the level of progesterone rises. It can go much, much higher if more progesterone is used, see here. The one thing very few doctors check is the ratio between progesterone and oestrogen. This is the critical factor, not so much the level. We've found from the saliva tests that the ratio should be 600:1 and over to feel well. Do let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Dec 12, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Anonymous

I realize I am posting another comment before you've had time to respond to the last one. I apologize.
I have felt some better yesterday and today after using the cream on Saturday pm, Sunday am and pm, and Monday (today) am. I have been much calmer, not as angry, and not so overwhelmed with simple things. Suddenly about 4 - 4:30 I just snapped. It was as if someone flipped a switch in me. I felt a headache coming on, got ill and couldn't think straight. I could feel my heart fluttering. All symptoms returned. I took the pm dose of cream. My head is hurting intensely in the back, around the base of my skull on both sides. It's a very different type of headache. Is this estrogen? If so, if you increase the dose again, at what point do the estrogen receptors settle down and quit bumping up with each progesterone dosage increase.
Is it wise to do the cream 3x a day vs. 2x a day? I took the cream about 7 am and the symptoms all hit all of a sudden around 4pm. It did not do this yesterday at all. I was just wondering if the cream wore off today. I know you have more experience at this than I.
I am so thankful for your responses. I've tried 3 dr.'s and it's been 3 1/2 years at trying this but I know there has to be hope. Thanks for your time!

Dec 13, 2011
StillConfused?
by: Anonymous

me again...Okay so after 3 days of dosing at 210mg, my 3% cream is over half gone. It costs $35 for me to get this. I'd have to get this filled 2 or 3 times a month at this rate, which I'm hoping would not have to keep it up at this high amount but for the time being it's getting very expensive. Is it more beneficial to get a prescription for a higher dose cream and use less of it than using so much of the 3%?

Dec 13, 2011
StillConfused?
by: Wray

Hi there I'm so sorry this has happened to you, Oestrogen Dominance can come out of the blue. I do try to warn people, but it's so difficult to know if and when it will occur, with what intensity, and what causes it. Usually it's a drop in progesterone, this is affected by many things, large meals which increase the metabolic rate, dark, gloomy days, a lack of vitamin D, phytoestrogens in food, and of course stress. It plays so many roles in the body, we have no way of knowing it it's needed elsewhere, so the symptoms we are conscious of come back. I'm not sure if I've replied to you before on headaches, I find it difficult without a name, so have to follow the title. But in case not, please see these papers here, here, here, here, here and here. Vitamin D can help too, see here, here and here. You might have to increase the progesterone, and it can be used as many times in the day as needed. Many women use it hourly for bad symptoms. Many find they have to go very high, we have a few using 800-1000mg/day. You might like to read a some of these comments here, here, here, here, here and here. The cream you are using is very expensive, I thought you were getting it through your doctor. You might like to read about the one we make here. Take care Wray

Dec 14, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray. My questions are getting so great that before you have time to respond to the previous questions, I've already got more. I am so sorry. I'm having such a hard time. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I switched one afternoon on the day I had been feeling better. I used the cream as soon as I noticed the symptoms. Within about an hour, I did feel some relief. However, I woke up yesterday and had a terrible day with all symptoms returning and just a complete mess: headaches, crying, irritable, bowel issues, etc. etc. I used half of the 210 mg in the am. Mid morning, I was just feeling so scatterbrained and irritable that I used 30mg more. No relief. I suffered all day. I tried to read on your website a lot last night to learn more. I upped my nighttime does to half of a 300mg does last night. I felt as though I was very restless sleeping and up at 3am with not being able to go back to sleep. I have a headache as well. I was planning to use 300mg divided into 3 doses today. Does this sound right or am I way off? I am not in a very good place emotionally or mentally today. I am also concerned about taking so much cream, the amount seems so huge. I know it all seems okay when I read your website, but I'll be honest, I'm questioning myself and knowing whether I am doing the right thing or not. I am also concerend about the cost. If I use this amount of 300mg, I will have to get a new tube of my 3% cream about every 3 days at $35 each. I realize it is worth the cost to feel good, but it is hard to afford that amount.
Why is it that at taking 210mg, on the 3rd day, I felt a good bit bettter and then crashed badly the next day? It seems to me like you are saying that oestrogen receptors are stimulated more with the dose increase. I think I've asked this before, but at what point do these crazy things quit being activated more and settle down? I have never felt such a crazy mess in my life. I really do need help.
One a side note, I am taking Vitamin D every day in drop form. I take anywhere from 4000-8000 per day. I had my vitamin D tested earlier in the year and it was low, in the 20's if I can remember correctly. I have not had another test done this year to see if it has risen with supplementation. I had gotten it up last year to 60, that is what the dr. I was seeing said was optimal. But when I tested again this year, the Vitamin D was lower than it was the first time I tested and supplemented. I thought that was strange.
I so appreciate you taking the time to answer!

Dec 14, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Wray

Hi there I think I've answered all your questions in my previous reply. Please let me know if I've left any out, and give me only those questions. Otherwise there'll be two of us confused! 20ng/ml or 20nmol/L, depending on where you live, is an extremely low level of vitamin D! Please take at least 10,000iu's per day and have another test done as soon as you can. I feel this could be your problem. Vitamin D is such a vital nutrient, needed by every cell to function normally. Stress of any kind drops levels sharply, and you are in great distress at the moment. Please have that test, and increase the amount you are using. You could also look at our page on Anxiety. I might have given it to you before, but read it again if I have. There are many other nutrients which help and are not toxic. Take care Wray

Dec 14, 2011
Question
by: Anonymous

Hi. I was interested in ordering your product and saw that there were some complaints from people who ordered and it took a long time to receive their product. They stated that they had trouble contacting your company in order to find out anything about shipment. It seems like reading your site you are genuinely helping others, but it does make one hesitant to order after reading such comments. I would assume that if one orders from the US, it is going to take a while longer by mail- looked like up to 2 weeks If I have read your website correctly. I just wanted to ask as I figured there was some type of reason or the comments were nonsense. Thanks!

Dec 15, 2011
Question
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks for the kind words, I do try to help where I can. We have been having problems, mainly due to the net ordering service we used that went into liquidation. Being an internet business a service of this sort is essential, as we have people ordering from all over the world, China included. The service operates for 24 hours a day, throughout the year, something we would find difficult to do ourselves. The website has just gone through a major overhaul too, as it was first done in 1998. I think this has added to the problem, as emails have fallen through the gap. Orders placed within the States take 3-5 days to arrive. The UK and Europe about 10-14 days, Australia and NZ can take up to a month, the Far East too. So no, the comments are not nonsense, and I do hope the problems have resolved. It's early days yet as systems are still being put into place to prevent this happening again. I know what it's like to run out of progesterone, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Take care Wray

Dec 17, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Lillian

Hi Wray. I put a name this time so it will help. Sorry if I sounded confusing, I've just been trying to make sure I understand what I am doing. There are no dr.'s that I've been to or know of at this point who treat this way.
I wanted to make sure that my expectations are correct. I am using 300mg divided into three doses per day - morn, lunch, and evening. When I started using this, 7 days ago, I have had only 2 days (partial days) where I felt decent, the rest of the time I have been completely crazy, cravings, headaches, breast tenderness, anger, etc. etc. - all the estrogen dominance signs. I had orginally started out at 200mg and increased to 300mg after the first day or two of this. I am upon my period now and not sure if I would have started today or will tomorrow, but I feel like it might be now but I thought the high dose progesterone might be suppressing the period. I'm fine with that, no question there. Yesterday I noticed that when I took the cream, I felt worse which would have been the most intense time before starting my period. Today, I do not have a headache and I have much more even temperament. I am using the same 300mg today. Why the change? I was thinking that maybe b/c of the change of my period b/c of the estrogen going down.
I know you mentioned that a few women have used as much as 800-1000mg. How do they know they need that much? Are they going by symptoms? I felt terrible with 300mg but afraid to increase the dose again. I assumed there was some part of not expecting all the symptoms to vanish just b/c I started a higher dose of cream. I assumed some of this would take time. I'm confused as far as knowing what amount to settle in on and just know to stick it out for a few months. I sure do hope this all makes sense what I'm asking.
Thanks for your help!

Dec 19, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Wray

Hi Lillian Thanks for the name as it makes it so much easier for me. The early stages of using progesterone can be very bumpy. It depends entirely on how much oestrogen is present, and how severe the symptoms are. Some days more is needed than others, we have no way of telling what's occurring within the body. Unfortunately it's usually the symptoms which worries us the most, that take to longest to resolve. I wish I could tell you how much you need, but only you can find this out by experimenting with the amount. I'm not sure if I gave you these comments here, here, here, here, here, here and here. They are from women who had to use high amounts to come right, you'll notice they vary the amount as and when needed. The hardest time is the few days before bleeding, as the endogenous hormones fluctuate. I often suggest to women to use more progesterone during those few days. So it's not a question of settling on one amount, but using it following symptoms as a guide. In case I didn't ask you, please have a vitamin D test done. Low levels reduce the benefit of progesterone. For more info on levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray


Dec 19, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Lillian

Hi Wray-
Thanks for the information. I does help me to know to change the amounts. My days just before my period were absolutely awful. I was afraid to keep bumping up the cream though, I guess I was thinking it was just making more estrogen present the more I took. But I think what I was misunderstanding is that it simply stimulates what is already there so the more progesterone will subdue the symptoms more. Makes Sense.
I guess my only other question would be...is it okay to take less during the first half of your period or is it best when first treating this way to keep the dosage high? I can tell my insides switched significantly when I hit this point but I've still been doing the 300mg even though I've felt good. I remember you saying something about not giving the estrogen a chance to go up again so to use the cream all month long. Or is that dependent on how you feel as well?
I sure appreciate you taking the time to clear these things up for me.

Dec 21, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Wray

Hi Lillian You are right, it's essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. It can't do this if insufficient is used, or if a high amount of oestrogen is present. Low amounts will keep stimulating oestrogen, and will continue to stimulate it. Please experiment and let me know how you get on if you reduce the amount during the first half of the cycle. Another woman is trying this too. We don't normally make progesterone in the first half, but if symptoms are bad I do suggest using it then too. Oestrogen starts rising from about days 3-5 after the first day of bleeding. You might like to see this Graph which shows the rise and fall of the two hormones. You'll notice oestrogen peaks just before ovulation, interestingly a few women find their symptoms are worse then too. It's only after ovulation that progesterone begins to rise, falling again the few days before we bleed. Often it falls too fast or maybe the corpus luteum made insufficient to counter the oestrogen. This is when symptoms in many women become far worse. So if you know your symptoms are bad just before ovulation, or the few days prior to bleeding, increase the amount of progesterone, reducing slowly back to the amount you were using. I do suggest using it daily for 2-3 months to give progesterone time to reduce the oestrogen. Each time you stop the progesterone, it gives oestrogen a chance to rise again. So play around with the amount you use, I think you'll find you'll be able to begin reducing slowly, by no more than 16mg/day each time you do. Then stay on that amount till you feel ready to reduce again. Remember stress drops progesterone levels, so increase whenever you feel stressed. I'm delighted the 300mg/day has helped you, thank you for trusting me. Take care Wray

Dec 23, 2011
Help with Progesterone
by: Lindsay

Hello!
I am new to this site, but have read a lot of helpful info. I am 29 years old and have been on prog. therapy (cream) for almost a year. I have borderline PCOS and hypothyroid...quite frankly...it has been a tough few years. In October I had my follow-up with my dr. and all was going great! She said that I can adjust my dose of prog. and to try and get it lower if possible (in hopes of getting my body to work on its own) I was taking .15 days 10-25, well I dropped it to .10 for those days and then started having a period too often, found a lump in my breast, and hair started falling out-went back in for another follow-up and she said that it was a sign that it was too low and to go back up....well I did and I took it up to .20..I'm still having an early period anywhere from 17-20 days. It just doesn't seem to be working. My hair is still falling out and I'm terrified that it is not going to work anymore. Progesterone has REALLY helped, but lowering the dose was a BIG MISTAKE. Please help!! What am I doing wrong?????? I am waiting on a response from my dr., but I think she is just as confused as I am. :(

Dec 25, 2011
Help with Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Lindsay I'm pleased the site has helped you. I would have to know a bit more before I can help. For instance it appears you are taking the progesterone, if I'm right, oral progesterone is the least effective Delivery system. And I don't understand the dose, unless you've been given a progestin? Oral progesterone comes in 100-200mg caps, yet you mention 0.10 to 0.20. And I take it this is mg? If so it sounds suspiciously like a progestin, maybe you could give me the name and I can look it up. I also don't know why you're taking it days 10-25, is your cycle normally 25 days long? In which case this would be correct. I recommend 100-200mg/day, or more if symptoms are severe. We have info on our page How to use progesterone cream. But as you say you have borderline PCOS, please read through this page. It gives info on how to use progesterone, plus a list of nutrients which help reverse it. It's caused by oxidative stress, and the nutrients are all powerful antioxidants. Vitamin D is often lacking, as it is in thyroid problems, see here, here and here. Please have a test done. For more info on levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Dec 26, 2011
Progesterone help
by: Lindsay

Thank you for getting back with me so quickly! I am taking progesterone cream (package reads--progesterone 100MG/ML in HRT base 1ML 10% cream) and my doctor said that she wanted a gradual increase on days 8,9 with .05ML and a gradual decrease on days 24, 25 with .05ML. All days in between are at .20ML. I am taking vitamin D (3drops/day) and will be starting b12 injections-waiting on those from doctor. In october I lowered it a significant amount (like I mentioned in my last message) and my hair has been shedding and I can't quite get my periods regulated bc they want to come every 17-20 days while on the progesterone. Should I be giving myself more cream? Is the hormonal shift causing my hair loss and will it correct itself? I feel so overwhelmed with this and can't seem to find any answers. I will read all the info you passed along and thank you again for your help!

Linds

Dec 27, 2011
Still Confused?
by: Lillian

Hi Wray-
I'm currently using about 1 1/2 tsp of cream per day in three doses: morning, noon, and night. I have started using Natpro at this time as it is cheaper than the cream from the local compounding pharmacy. I actually started my period like normal this month after I thought I would not, it was just 1 day later than normal. But, Wray, I feel so awful. For 5 -6 straight days now, I have felt so terrible: very angry, unhappy, moody, hungry, bloated feeling, weird head stuff, and just an overall confused crazy feeling where I can't think straight or make good decisions. I noticed that prior to my period and using the high dose, I got a nagging headache every single day. After my period started, the headaches do get better as they always have, but I still have all the other symptoms. I just feel so badly. Is this just where I have to ride this out now? I'm sticking with this for the few months you suggested, I have tried it other ways and it just doesn't work.
Also, I did have my Vitamin D level checked about 5 months ago and it was low (around 26-32) so I have been supplementing daily and will have it checked again. Last year, my level was checked and it was low and I got it up to a good level and I know I slacked off some in taking the vitamin D thinking it wasn't as important now and it was low again when I had it checked. I will have it checked again.
At what point do I know to increase my cream more or to just stay where I am even though I feel so terrible? I do want to be patient for this to level out, I just also question if I am doing the right thing, taking enough, taking too much (you know all the craziness). And my poor family is riding this out with me. It's hard to be a good mommy and wife with all this going on inside.

Jan 02, 2012
Still Confused?
by: Wray

Hi Lillian I'm not sure how long you've been on the higher amount, but if it coincided with changing to the Natpro, that is why you are feeling so awful. Increasing the amount will cause Oestrogen Dominance again. Plus we've found from Saliva Tests we run that the Natpro is absorbed very well, so too is the progesterone. You're currently using about 250mg/day progesterone, which should kick in soon. The reason you feel better after the period starts is because oestrogen falls to it's lowest level in the cycle. I'm not sure if I gave you the comments made by other women who had to use high amounts to come right, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Your vitamin D was very low! I feel sure if you can get this up quickly you'll begin to feel better. I suggest you take 10,000iu's per day, if you can't find this please see this site here. Scroll to the bottom right of the page. You might consider taking the 50,000iu's that the one supplier makes, this will raise levels quickly. Try to get it to between 70-100ng/ml. Take care Wray


Jan 02, 2012
Still Confused?
by: Lillian

Hi Wray-
I have been supplementing the Vitamin D so I feel it is probably higher now and will have it checked soon.
Also, I may not have been clear on the previous post, but I felt worse after I started my period. I felt horrible all the way up until ovulation, which has just now been that time. It's actually doing the opposite of what it should. I felt very good the 2 days before my period and once I started, I felt awful for days and days. I still feel bad, but I can at least get out of bed now. It didn't make sense to me to be the opposite of what it should be. I knew the estrogen was less during the first 1/2 of the month. Used to, when all this first started it was as if someone flipped a switch and at ovulation, I instantly got grumpy, hungry, depressed, etc. Then when I started my period, I was normal for a couple of weeks. Now there is no good time of the month. I've noticed that I feel terrible even if it's when it should be good.
What would cause the opposite effect?
Also, I've read some things about taking too much vitamin D and it causing some problems. What are your opinions on this?
Thanks!

Jan 02, 2012
please help ASAP!
by: Lindsay

Hi Wray!
I have increased my progesterone dramatically like you suggested and I feel awful. I'm wide awake at night (anxiety kicks in after I apply it), have a headache, and feel tired throughout the day and just down in the dumps. I just can't get the right balance. Am I totally screwing up my body??!!! I'm on day 16 and wondering if I should lower it a bit. I mentioned in my previous post the type of progesterone I am taking. I've increased it to .35 and my doctor originally wanted me to go back to .20. I felt awful at that dose too! what do I do!????

Linds

Jan 03, 2012
Still Confused?
by: Wray

Hi Lillian Oestrogen, progesterone too, drops prior to our period. Progesterone remains low till just before ovulation. But oestrogen starts rising about 3-4 days after day 1 of bleeding, peaking just before ovulation. It then drops sharply, rising again mid-luteal phase. You might like to see a Chart on the rise and fall of the hormones. If excess oestrogen is being made, a higher amount of progesterone is needed to suppress it. Please help me out as I'm getting confused as to how you are using the cream. Are you using it daily, ie through your period too? Or are you following your cycle? As for the taking too much vitamin D causing problems, only if you take 1 million iu's per day as one man mistakenly did. He felt a bit off, but was soon put right by stopping the vitamin D and drinking lots of water. Toxicity is not reached until 200ng/ml is reached, see here. I don't know if you read that paper I gave you, where a study suggests we take 10,000iu's per day to prevent cancer, see here. Take care Wray

Jan 03, 2012
Progesterone help
by: Wray

Hi Linds Thanks for the info, I can now work out how much progesterone you're getting. Which is very low! 0.05ml of cream means you're getting 5mg progesterone, and 0.20ml of cream will give you 20mg progesterone. I recommend 100-200mg/day! It doesn't surprise me you're getting all those symptoms. Too little progesterone stimulates oestrogen, but before this is created, testosterone is first secreted. The enzyme aromatase converts this to oestrogen. But excess testosterone causes scalp hair loss and facial hair, not to mention an oily skin and acne too. Please increase the amount you're using to at least 100mg/day. You might find this insufficient, follow your symptoms as a guide. Increasing progesterone also causes Oestrogen Dominance, please don't reduce the amount as so many do if you do get it. They think it's the progesterone causing the problem, it's not, it's oestrogen. Paradoxically lowering progesterone does work, but only because it's not stimulating oestrogen. It's essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. Please have that vitamin D test done. Take care Wray

Jan 03, 2012
Progesterone help
by: Wray

Hi Linds Thanks for the info, I can now work out how much progesterone you're getting. Which is very low! 0.05ml of cream means you're getting 5mg progesterone, and 0.20ml of cream will give you 20mg progesterone. I recommend 100-200mg/day! It doesn't surprise me you're getting all those symptoms. Too little progesterone stimulates oestrogen, but before this is created, testosterone is first secreted. The enzyme aromatase converts this to oestrogen. But excess testosterone causes scalp hair loss and facial hair, not to mention an oily skin and acne too. Please increase the amount you're using to at least 100mg/day. You might find this insufficient, follow your symptoms as a guide. Increasing progesterone also causes Oestrogen Dominance, please don't reduce the amount as so many do if you do get it. They think it's the progesterone causing the problem, it's not, it's oestrogen. Paradoxically lowering progesterone does work, but only because it's not stimulating oestrogen. It's essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. Please have that vitamin D test done. Take care Wray

Jan 03, 2012
Hi
by: Lillian

Hi Wray-

Thanks for much for your continued advice. I am taking 1 tsp of cream three times a day, which you said was 250mg. I am taking it all the time, through bleeding and everything.
I am on day 25 of using this higher dose. I started using Natpro on day 11 of higher dose usage. It was right around ovulation when I started the cream. So I am now about mid cycle time again. I did still get my period this last time so I will see this time.
I'm reallly hoping this helps. I will be honest and say that I am doing this b/c nothing else works but I am hesitant about taking so much. The doctor thinks I am on too much as well.
I'm giving it a chance.
Lillian

Jan 03, 2012
please help ASAP!
by: Wray

Hi Linds Unfortunately you haven't increased the progesterone dramatically. In fact you have only made matters worse by increasing it by 15mg. You need to use at least 100mg, but as I said in my previous reply, I think you'll need more than this before finding relief. You evidently have a great deal of excess oestrogen judging by your reaction to such a small increase of progesterone. 100mg progesterone means you will use 1ml of cream, 200mg progesterone requires 2ml of cream. Not 0.35 ml of cream. Please try this and see if it helps. You might find encouragement from women who have used high amounts such as 1000mg/day progesterone. This would require 10ml of your cream, ie 2 teaspoons, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Take care Wray

Jan 04, 2012
Period came early again on Day 17
by: Lindsay

Hi Wray. Thanks for your responses and links to the articles. I've read and learned a great deal. Let me get this straight though. I need to take at least 100mg or 1mL of my 10% progesterone cream daily? I know you suggested 100-200mg daily, but is that using the Natpro 3.3% progesterone cream or my 10% progesterone cream from my pharmacy? It seems as the cream I'm using is 3 times stronger so I've been cutting your recommended amount by a third. That is how I ended up on 35mg/daily. If my math is accurate it would be the same as 105mg of the Natpro.

Also, it sounds as if I need to power through my period by continuing to use my progesterone and not stop (to give my body a 7 day -10 day rest before starting it again around ovulation time). Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think by reading this is what I should do. By the sound of it, it's going to take a long while for me to get to feeling better while this progesterone battles it out with my estrogen dominance state.

Jan 17, 2012
Question
by: Amy

Hi Wray-
I am sorry to ask here, but I didn't get a response to an email I sent in the place that it looked appropriate to ask. I tried to cancel my order before it ever got shipped but didn't get a response.
I just ordered some cream, 3 tubes actually, and have found that I do not need it. I have not opened the package it was mailed in. Is it possible to return it?
Again, sorry to ask here but didn't know how else to get a response.

Thanks again. And your product is great! I simply do not need it.

Jan 18, 2012
Period came early again on Day 17
by: Wray

Hi Lindsay I'm so sorry I seem to have missed your query. The amount of progesterone I recommend is for use with any cream. So if a 10% cream is used it would require 1ml of cream, if a 3.3% it would require 3ml of cream, if a 1.6% which is the normal strength, it would need 6.25ml of cream. Hope this helps. I do believe it's best to use the progesterone daily, through the period too, with no break at all. And to do this for about 2-3 months. Each time a break is taken it allows oestrogen to rise again, not what is wanted. It does take time to settle down, in some longer than others. Once you feel stable you can begin to follow your cycle, we have info on how to do this on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2012
Question
by: Wray

Hi Amy I'm so sorry you've not had a reply back. Normally the shipping department is quick to respond. I have informed them and you should get a reply on what to do. I'm delighted you found the cream good, and equally delighted you don't need it anymore. That's ultimately the aim, to use it as and when needed. I don't think I'll be stopping it though, but then I am older and find it helps my skin! Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2012
Thank you
by: Amy

Hi Wray-
Thanks for your response. The day I emailed to ask about canceling the order, it shipped later that day. It's no big deal, but I did want to get my money back. Thanks for contacting them.
Amy

Jan 18, 2012
update on SVT etc
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray, I am sure you will remember I am the one with SVT and was on the beta blockers. Well, I have since had a cardiac ablation done to correct the SVT and I am not on the beta blockers anymore. Unfortunatetly, I don't have a doctor to work with that will oversee me being on 400mg of progesterone cream and I am too scared to go this alone:( I am quite sure I need progesterone but wish it could be less. I do have yet another symptom that I am battling now and wanted to see what your thoughts are. My tongue has been burning--the top of it mostly. It is so painful and has been going on for a couple months. It is really bad right now. There are days where I can't eat and sleeping is tough too. I have read that if this was due to hormonal issues that it usually happens after menopause---which I am still menstruating every month regularly and I am only 39 yrs old so I know it isn't that. Have you heard of this symptom before??
Thanks!
Angel

Jan 19, 2012
update on SVT etc
by: Wray

Hi Angel I don't think you will need that amount now, as you've had the ablation. That was to prevent the heart racing, due to the initial stimulatory effect progesterone has on oestrogen. I suggest you try the 100-150mg/day you were on and see if that helps. If not, increase the amount until it does. We have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Burning tongue does usually occur more frequently after menopause, which makes one suspect excess oestrogen, low progesterone. Oestrogen is also an inflammatory hormone. Excess oestrogen is so often found in the pre-menopause years now, as you've experienced. Burning tongue can be caused by nutritional deficiencies (vitamin B2 is important for mouth health), Anxiety, depression and stress, type 2 diabetes and Candida. Didn't you say you had this at one point? Maybe it's come back again. Some people have noticed it's related to dental amalgams responding to microwave transmissions. Is your tongue and mouth dry? This is a sign of high oestrogen, in it's more extreme form it's called Sjogren's syndrome, see here. See if the higher progesterone helps it, and I suggest you try vitamin B2 as well. And check up on the candida too. Take care Wray

Jan 19, 2012
Burning Tongue
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi SVT Anonymous ..... sorry but I don't know what to call you as you did not leave a name. I have been suffering from a burning tongue for nearly 2 years now and it is driving me crazy, today is particularly bad. Some say it is hormonal but I am not so sure, perhaps Wray could add to this. I have tried all sorts of things to try and clear this up. What did help me a little was to rub some cream twice a day on your tongue. I am only talking of NATPRO progesterone cream, I do not know what the other creams contain, so please don't try this if it is not Natpro. It helped to ease the raw burning feeling but it has not cleared it which is why I am not convinced that it is hormonal as I have been using progesterone for 6 years now. I started taking an amino acid called cysteine which is a powerful anti oxidant, it also seemed to help a little but the burning always remained. I have tried probiotics, tea tree mouth wash and recently started using an organic tooth paste thinking that perhaps it could be the fluoride in that, but that hasn’t helped either!
Then I found a link on anti-depressants and one of the side effects was a burning tongue. I had been on an anti-depressant for a while and to me that makes more sense than a hormonal imbalance.
Have you been or are you taking an anti-depressant? I really would like to know this as there are days when it really gets me down. I have also found that Tyrosine helped for a short time, but not totally. If it is the anti-depressant I am wondering why it is taking so long to clear. BTW I will NEVER use an anti-depressant again!!! Going natural is the only way.

Please write back and let me know.

Take care.

Joy

Jan 20, 2012
Burning Tongue
by: Wray

Hi Joy Thanks for your input! I'm sure you told me about the antidepressant, but thanks for pointing that out. I've suggested some reasons to Angel, plus things to take, but I know you've tried most of them too. As each of us is different, it could be hers is from other cause and she'll respond. Please don't stop experimenting, as there is a dearth of info on the web, and if you can find the solution, you'll be blessed by many women! Take care Wray

Jan 20, 2012
Re:Joys message
by: Angel

Hi Joy, I am trying a lot of things for my burning tongue as well. Mine started about 2 months ago or so..can't remember. But the past few weeks have been awful. I am using a probiotic lozenge that my dentist gave me. He thought maybe my saliva had become acidic and he said if it's gonna help I will know something in a couple weeks. I also am taking a probiotic. I changed my toothpaste from Toms natural(which still contains sodium laurly sulfate) to an all natural one that I got at the health food store that has no fluoride, additives, etc. I just switched a couple days ago so have to see what happens. Also, i tend to get heartburn so I am trying a product called Prelief that takes acid out of food..also been doing that for a couple days. I stopped all of my vitamins, supplements for a few days in case it was something I was taking. Before, I had the procedure done for my heart I was on a beta blocker and I am thinking that may be what triggered this to become so bad...but like I said just guessing at this point. It's just so frustrating trying to figure it all out...and such a painful thing to deal with. I spoke to a friend that called another friend who is in the dental field and she has also been dealing with this for 2 years and called it ideopathic burning tongue. She said to be sure and check zinc levels and B6 levels so I am doing that also. And I have never been on an antidepressant--but she said they can actually help(unless of course it is the cause of it). I am on thyroid medication called Levoxyl. I was on Naturethroid and switched over in August. I would think if it was that it would have showed up before now. Sorry I am not much help since this is all new to me but please know that you are not alone. Hope you find something that helps and the pain goes away for you soon!
Angel

Jan 25, 2012
not sure if it is Pcos?
by: Tina

I took Maca Root in November and only took it for 2 weeks to help with my hormonal imbalance. (facial hair, acne, hair loss) I am 38 still have a period on schedule..only lasts 3 days. I felt awful since then. I am underweight 5'6" 110 as average I have gained weight which is odd for me. I have no energy to workout, I feel sad and heavy. I started using progesterall and my skin flared up. I have an appt to see the DR. The last time I went she told me I was just depressed and wanted to put me on Efexor?? I know something is off and the maca root made it worse. What should I ask the DR. to do on my wellness check comming up? Saliva test? Since I also took the maca root it caused my Trigeminal Neuralgi to flare, and went back on carbatrol..now doing acupuncture to get off meds.. any clue what happened when I took the maca root?

Jan 26, 2012
not sure if it is Pcos?
by: Wray

Hi Tina Interestingly maca apparently has no affect on oestrogen or testosterone levels according to this one paper, see here. And yet this paper said it increased oestradiol levels, see here. If this is so it would account for the weight increase. It would also explain why it did not help the facial hair, acne and hair loss. It does appear to increase diastolic blood pressure slightly too, see here. Unfortunately the amount of progesterone you would have been advised to use would have made matters worse for your skin. I recommend 100-200mg/day or more, dependant on symptoms. High testosterone is the cause of your facial hair, acne and hair loss. Far more progesterone is needed to suppress it, see here. The amounts used in the study were very high, but they used oral progesterone, which is not the best Delivery system. I've found suppositories or creams are better, as the full amount of progesterone is absorbed, providing enough is used. The study mentions SHBG, if this is low, more free testosterone becomes available. Free testosterone is metabolically active, whereas if bound to SHBG it's not. Progesterone effectively increases SHBG, thereby lowering testosterone. Please avoid all sugars and sweet, starchy foods, ie all grains, legumes, and fruits and veggies which fall into this category. Fructose, sucrose and glucose decrease SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively. This allows free testosterone to rise. I've no idea why it should cause your trigeminal neuralgia to flare up. Although another interesting point, TN is more common in women than men, which always makes me suspect oestrogen. It's an inflammatory hormone. This would tie in with the one paper which said maca increases oestradiol levels. If you should consider using progesterone again, please use sufficient, we have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream But before you do, please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first, as this can occur. Continued below.

Jan 26, 2012
not sure if it is Pcos? Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Tina Saliva tests are best, but unless done by a lab which checks the ratios, such as ZRT Labs, they mean nothing. They should also always be done ±7 days after ovulation or before bleeding, as progesterone peaks mid-luteal phase. It's low the rest of the month. The hormone profile needed is oestradiol, progesterone and free testosterone. While they are doing it, please have a vitamin D test done too, this is low in most of us. It's the most vital nutrient, affecting every cell, see here, here, here and here. Finally we do have a page on PCOS, please read through is and see if you have any other symptoms. Take care Wray

Jan 26, 2012
Burning Tongue
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Angel - thanks for your comments. I see that you are on drugs for thyroid, just wondering if it is the drugs that is doing it. Just a thought seing that I was on anti-depressants. Another thing that crossed my mind while reading your post when you mentioned the dentist. What about fillings, could there be a mercury leak or something?
Gosh my mind is racing trying to find out what the hec it could be. Do let me know if you find out and I will do the same.
Take care.

Jan 31, 2012
Help!
by: Shaili

Hello, Wray! I've been reading this thread and think you're a much better source of information than the multiple doctors I have talked to!
I have a long story here so I'll condense it down as much as I can. I went on hormonal birth control 2.5 years ago and came off after that first month because the symptoms were awful. Right after that, I experienced significant bloating of the lower abdomen along with constipation and heavy periods (but they were on time). I also lost a lot of weight, FAST (my cravings were at an all time low). I'm 5'7" and weighed 110lb. It was actually quite scary for me. This persisted for five months and my doctor recommended going back in the birth control so I did. Things did not get better but she said to give it a few months. I gained back the weight I had lost very fast but now my cravings were at an all time high and I had heavy periods along with horrible menstrual migraines (and still with the bloating and constipation). I went off the BC after five months of this craziness and things got a bit better in the sense that the menstrual migraines went away somewhat and my periods were no longer as heavy. Also, my cravings were back to normal. But now I was dealing with insomnia, bloating, constipation and constant fatigue. I dealt with this for quite a few months before deciding to see my doctor again because I refused to accept having to live with a less than normally functioning body. This time she suggested progesterone cream (well, she suggested a progesterone only pill but I pushed for the natural cream instead) saying my symptoms sounded like estrogen dominance. It was good for the first month! The insomnia got better, I went back to my original weight before I first went in BC, I had energy, I could focus, my period was normal, the bloating and constipation got better (but were still present to an extent). After the first month, my acne got worse for the first time in three years retina A micro had cleared it up nicely and has continued to keep my skin nice), all the bloating and constipation came back in full force, the insomnia came back, the fatigue came back, my cravings were slightly higher than normal. So, I went off the progesterone (I was taking about 100 mg days 10-27 of my cycle). The acne went away, and everything else got slightly better. So here's what I'm left with: slight bloating, some constipation, abnormally dry eyes (not sure if that's a hormonal thing or not), and some sleep disturbance (my sleep cycle is off. I can't fall asleep til 2:30 am no matter how sleep deprived I am and want to sleep in til 12 pm). Also, I just got my period a few days ago and had a slight hormone related headache before it came. After the first day of my cycle, I started getting slight headaches in the evening.
What the heck is going in with me???

Feb 01, 2012
Help!
by: Wray

Hi Shaili Bless you for the kind words! All drug based Contraceptives have the potential to harm. They stop ovarian function, which means of course no progesterone is made, hence your adverse symptoms while taking it. You might like to see this page here. Scroll down to near the bottom to find 'Contraceptives'. I recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone, more if symptoms are severe. It appears you could do with more than the 100mg you were using, certainly initially. As often happens, Oestrogen Dominance has kicked in. Progesterone does stimulate oestrogen, particularly if not enough is used, or if oestrogen levels are high. The symptoms you're left with are all related to excess oestrogen. It does cause constipation as it draws water from the gut, and puts it in the tissues, hence the bloating. Progesterone is an excellent diuretic, so good it's now given via IV transfusion for TBI victims. This puts the water back in the gut. Dry eyes is an hormonal problem, see here. Progesterone is excellent for sleep, see here. And it's good for headaches too, see here, here, here, here, here and here. If you do go back on the progesterone please make sure you use enough. Evidently the 100mg/day was not. We do have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. And don't forget oestrogen dominance! Take care Wray

Feb 01, 2012
:)
by: Shaili

THANK YOU, WRAY!!!
Best help I have received this far (and I have talked to three different doctors)!
Two questions:
1. Which days of my cycle should I be talking the progesterone?
2. Any idea how long the estrogen dominance symptoms will last (I know it varies but do you have an average time frame before those symptoms will go away?)??

Feb 01, 2012
too much progesterone?
by: Tina

sorry to bug you again, you were a real help last time!! But, I took the 100mg of progesterone cream and for two days I felt fine then I started to get real tired and sad again. I did go to the DR. got results ( no saliva test available) my hemoglobin was 11.6 I think? and TH was fine.. but said my testosterone was low? I am taking spironlactone for the hairloss, acne and facial hair...I am at a loss?? I stop the progesterone DR said I do not need it?? I stopped anyway because you only take it for 14 days after ovulation right? So, should I take it again?? My Pap results will not be back for two weeks..should I just wait till then to decide what to do??
Thank you for your advice, it is greatly appreciated!

Feb 02, 2012
:)
by: Wray

Hi Shaili Thanks! Progesterone should be used from ovulation, which is when we begin to make it naturally. So you're just adding a bit more to help, as quite frequently the corpus luteum makes insufficient, or the luteal phase is not long enough. Or we have an anovulatory cycle when none is made at all. The luteal phase in all women, irrespective of the cycle length, is 12-14 days before bleeding. We do have more info on the cycle length etc on our page How to use progesterone cream. I wish I had an average time frame, it would make my life easier! Some women never get oestrogen dominance, others mildly, others with increasing severity. It depends on many factors, how much oestrogen is present, whether Contraceptives or HRT have been taken, stress which plays a big role, and more. In some it can last a few days, some a few weeks. My only advice if it does occur, is use more progesterone. It's essential to make progesterone dominant, this will not be achieved by reducing the amount as many do. Levels of 400mg/day or more generally put paid to it very quickly, or it doesn't occur.

Feb 02, 2012
too much progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Tina You're not bugging me! Evidently the 100mg/day is not enough. I do recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are bad. Please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance as it explains why you felt tired and sad. To low an amount of progesterone can stimulate oestrogen, when this rises it can cause all manner of adverse symptoms. It's essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. This can only be achieved by increasing the amount. I can't agree you don't need progesterone, all your symptoms show you do. I don't believe you need spiro either, see here, here, here, here and here. Please read that paper I gave you on how progesterone suppresses excess testosterone. And those on SHBG too, this is what is required to stop the acne etc. You are correct that progesterone should be used for 14 days after ovulation. Only you can decide to continue the progesterone and to avoid all sugars, or to take drugs instead. Please read those papers. Take care Wray

Feb 04, 2012
too much progesterone?
by: Tina

Okay, I am just worried.. I lost a lot of hair and had major brain fogg..but I should take more progesterone? When will I know I took too much? The facial hair has really slowed down...but now I am more worried about hair loss and fatigue, brain fog. So, I should take 200 mg daily? I want to make sure I dont loose more hair or I will have to buy a wig!

Feb 04, 2012
too much progesterone?
by: Tina

Okay, I am just worried.. I lost a lot of hair and had major brain fogg..but I should take more progesterone? When will I know I took too much? The facial hair has really slowed down...but now I am more worried about hair loss and fatigue, brain fog. So, I should take 200 mg daily? I want to make sure I dont loose more hair or I will have to buy a wig!

Feb 05, 2012
too much progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Tina Yes I do believe you need more, it's evident the amount you were using was not helping. Too much progesterone gives a feeling of euphoria, something we could all do with! Via a cream it's impossible to use too much. Dr Dalton would give 2400mg/day via injections and suppositories. Traumatic Brain Injury victims are given over 1200mg/day via IV transfusion. Over 70% of these are men too. Please consider taking the following nutrients for hair loss…….
Vitamin D 5000iu's/day as a minimum
Inositol 2000-4000mg/day
N-acetyl cysteine 1000-2000mg/day
Biotin 2-3mg
Thiamine 100mg/day
Take care Wray

Feb 06, 2012
If you stop using natural Progesterone Cream I was told by ProGest that all goes back to where you started.
by: Patricia

I have been on ProGest for about 3 1/2 mos now. (I split a small packet daily) Have no problem with it..the reason I am taking it was due to a Hormone Test I had done(because my GYN doctor wanted me use an estrogen cream and I questioned that)My Holistic Doctor reviewed the results and found my Estrogen to be fine but Progesterone was low. He said to do it for 3 months. I thought my levels would get back up to normal after 3 months and the company said no..levels would go back to where they were. I also found out that if you take another hormone test within 6 months to a year after you have been on the cream it gives you a false read. Is it safe to keep using it if you have gotten levels to normal which I can't even test for now..?Also, is soy a cancer causing agent in the cream? Someone just told me that may be an issue...I don't know what to do...can you give me some advice. Is there a natural cream that
doesn't have levels go back to where they were if stop using it? Thanks.

Feb 08, 2012
If you stop using natural Progesterone Cream I was told by ProGest that all goes back to where you started.
by: Wray

Hi Patricia If you are producing excess oestrogen in ratio to progesterone, then your levels will fall back to where they were if you stop after 3 months. It doesn't matter what brand of cream you use, this will occur. Having a test while using progesterone won't give you a false reading, it will tell you exactly what your levels are. You might like to see these results from Saliva Tests we run. We've found the ratio of P:E2 should be 600:1 and over to feel well. Some women use it after their levels have become normal to high, simply because if they stop the levels drop. It is safe. This is particularly obviously if in Peri-menopause or Menopause. You might like to see this page on how high levels can go when supplementing with progesterone, see here. I recommend 100-200mg/day, which is probably far higher than you are currently using. We have another page with more info on How to use progesterone cream. Progest doesn't contain soy, so I don't really understand your question. But soy is not a good food, see here. Take care Wray

Feb 10, 2012
Heavy Periods.
by: confused,but not so much!

Hi Wray,
I wrote some time ago about dose of natural progesterone.I have been using it now since August for menopausal symptoms with fantastic results.After 4 months without a period I am having regular bleeds so am using the progesterone accordingly,BUT I am having really heavy periods due to fibroids....1 month bad the next month really bad.They were pretty heavy before starting the cream,but nothing like now.
In all other aspects I feel so much better,no hot flashes,libido has come back,more energy and much happier.I realize my cycles are anovulatory...confirmed by blood test and ultrasound scan,but I guess the oestrogen I am producing is causing the problem.Can I use progesterone cream during my "period" to control the bleeding,or perhaps there is a herb I could take for the duration of the bleeding.I do have Tranexamic Acid for emergencies but really dont like using it.
Many Thanks

Feb 10, 2012
Heavy Periods
by: Wray

Hi there I'm delighted the progesterone is helping you. I'm not sure how much you are using, and it's evident from your question, that you are trying to follow your cycle. I'm amazed you've been able to and that they are regular again, in spite of the break. I'm also not sure how old you are, but it appears you're now in Peri-menopause. Fibroids do cause heavier bleeding, but do does being in P-M, the two combined makes for a tough time! Although the progesterone has helped you, I don't believe you are using enough, as progesterone can help control heavy bleeding too. MMP's are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle, see here. Progesterone suppresses MMP's, see here. So it's only when the corpus luteum stops making progesterone at the end of the cycle, that levels plummet and the MMP's can begin breaking down the lining. In some instances they can cause a pathological reaction if excess oestrogen is present, as oestrogen stimulates their production. This can lead to inflammation, spotting and/or excessive bleeding in the uterus. If a low level of progesterone is present, and a high level of oestrogen, the lining will continue to grow. With a high level of MMP's the lining will also continue to break down. This of course leads to heavy continual bleeding. Using high amounts of progesterone, ie about 400mg/day or more, reverses this, and the bleeding stops. Fibroids are an indication your oestrogen is high. But fibroids are caused by oxidative stress, ie excess free radicals. It's essential to take high dose antioxidants, there's a list of these here. In particular vitamin D, please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Continued below.

Feb 10, 2012
Heavy Periods Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Each time you stop the progesterone it causes oestrogen to rise again. I always advise using it daily, through any period that might occur, to prevent this. It also allows progesterone to become the dominant hormone. Once you feel stable, you can try following your cycle again. Although being in P-M it does become so erratic it's impossible to follow, so using it daily is the best option. If you do increase the amount, please see our page on Oestrogen Dominance first. Take care Wray

Feb 10, 2012
Switching from sublinguil drops to transdermal cream.
by: Marie

Hi Wray,
I appreciate you and your time on here and have gained a lot of knowledge reading thru all of your posts. I would like to know your opinion on the dosing I am being prescribed. I am 44 yrs old and have clearly started perimenopause with many symtoms. I have been on 100mg prog/2ml testosterone in the delivery system of sublinguil drops that are bioidentical. I am beginning to think from what I am reading I should drop the testosterone. I found a new dctr that specializes in nutrition and hormones that I am happy with and he says the transdermal cream is safer than the drops and suggests I switch. I went ahead and had him prescribe the cream as I am about to need a refill. He cut my dose in half making it 50 mg prgesterone and 1 ml testosterone. He says it absorbs much better than the drops and that this amount is equivalent to what I was taking in the drop form. What are your thoughts on this. I am feeling better than I did. It was an awful 3 months before I started feeling better. I am concerned of regressing back and feeling awful again by my dose being lowered even though he firmly believes it is equal to what I had in the drops.

Feb 11, 2012
Switching from sublinguil drops to transdermal cream
by: Wray

Hi Marie I can understand the reasoning of your doctor. He is right about the cream being a better Delivery system. The buccal cavity does absorb progesterone well, but some does get swallowed. Once in the gut most of it gets destroyed, plus the liver metabolises the rest. One thing I'm slightly puzzled about you say "I am about to need a refill", but then say "I am feeling better than I did". This implies you have already started the cream? Or are you saying you feel better than you did having started the drops? But it took 3 months of these before you felt better? Symptoms can take 3 months, sometimes more, sometimes less, when using the cream too. It depends on symptoms, plus how much excess oestrogen you have, testosterone too. If you do find the 50mg/day too little, double up and see if that helps. Even doubling is the barest minimum I suggest! 40mg/day does not bring the level of progesterone up to that found in the luteal phase, see here. The study says…."although only low plasma progesterone levels were found (median 2.5 nmol/l)". These are the ranges for the luteal phase… 15.9 - 63.6 nmol/L. So you can see the increase was very slight. 50mg/day is not going to do much better. It is a question of experimenting, for all of us. And I've found over the 15 years I've used it that I still vary the amount to suit my mood! We do have more info on our Peri-menopause page. But please look at our Oestrogen Dominance page before increasing the progesterone, as this can occur. Continued below.

Feb 11, 2012
Switching from sublinguil drops to transdermal cream Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Marie Please avoid the testosterone, I can see no value in it at all, only risks, see here, here, here, here, here here, here, here, here and here. It does increase visceral fat, so giving testosterone to a women in P-M or Menopause will ensure she gets a middle age spread! Besides the menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, we don't need more, see here. I'm pleased the site has helped you. Take care Wray

Feb 11, 2012
dosage
by: Anonymous

I see that some are taking high dosages of progesterone. My question is when you do this, how do you go about it? I am taking about 100mg vaginally in the am and in the pm but am going through much stress right now with a death of a family member. If I increase my dose do I still take it twice daily or do I need to still take 100mg more times a day? Topical does not seem to work for me so it is a pain trying to do it vaginally through out the day.

Feb 11, 2012
Switching from sublinguil drops to transdermal cream part 2
by: Marie

HI Wray,
Thanks so much for your fast response. Sorry for the confusion how I worded my first text. To clarify, what I meant by feeling better is that I feel better after 3 mos on the drops and I am now, just today actually switching to the cream as my refill on drops was due. My oestradiol levels were normal range when I first started BHRT, so I am just on the progesterone and testosterone. I will talk to my dctr about getting off the testosterone. Seems that my mid section has been growing and I definatelydo not want that. Especially since I eat healthy and excercise. I have just been nevous that the lower dosage may make me regress back to how bad I was feeling for the last 4 mos. I would say that the last 3 weeks have showed a diff and I have finally been feeling pretty good again. I suppose if I start feeling bad again I can talk to him about upping the dose back to 100 mg. Can you also tell me the best way to rotate the cream and the places. Pharmacist told me wrists for 2 weeks and then thighs for 2 weeks and then upper arms for 2weeks and then back to wrists again. Does this sound reasonable to you? Thanks so much for the reply!!!

Feb 13, 2012
dosage
by: Wray

Hi there You're currently using 200mg/day which is a good amount. You can still continue with the twice daily, but insert another suppository at the same time. I have found it's better if symptoms are severe, or very stressed, to keep levels topped up by using it more frequently. I would be interested to learn what amount of progesterone you were using via a topical cream. Was it the usual 20-40mg/day? If so this would not give any relief, considering you are now using 200mg/day. The skin does absorb it very well, and has many advantages over suppositories. For one thing it can be applied hourly, which many women do if very stressed. Maybe you are still using a cream, and inserting that, as you don't acutually mention suppositories. Or maybe it's a vaginal tab? Inserting more of whatever you are using in the morning could be a problem, as it tends to leak out. So you might have to use the higher amount at night only. Take care Wray

Feb 13, 2012
Switching from sublinguil drops to transdermal cream
by: Wray

Hi Marie Unless you take copies of those papers I gave you on testosterone, your doctor will not understand why you want to come off. I have yet to hear of one who does know about the dangers of giving it to a woman, I imagine there must be! Don't leave it too long. If you find the 50mg is working for you, then stick to that. There's little point in using more than needed. Just see how you get on, it's so easy to increase the amount. If each time you have to speak to your doctor about increasing or decreasing the amount, or coming off the testosterone, it will just cost you more. It's essential you are in control of how much progesterone you need to use. I vary the amount I use as and when I need to. I sometimes top myself up with 330mg/day, particularly if I've been through a stressful time. I find the advice about rotating areas daft. The skin comprises 95% kerotinocytes, these all have ample progesterone receptors. Even the hair follicles and sebaceous glands absorb it well. It can be applied anywhere and everywhere. I use it on my face neck and breasts every morning and night, then rub some on any area I think needs it. It's excellent on the face, see here. I also use some in my vagina at night, if used there it prevents any dryness or inflammation. Take care Wray

Feb 13, 2012
Switching from sublinguil drops to transdermal cream
by: Marie

Thanks again for your advice! My dctr isnt the one who actually suggested I use testosterone. It was a hormone therapist but I needed dctr to authorize prescription. If I had known before what I know now about testosterone I could have told therapist I didnt want the testosteone and that would have been fine. The problem is my prog is combined with the testosterone so I cant just go off it or I would be going off the prog too.Therefore I need to tell my dctr so he can send in a new prescription with progesterone only. I do not think he will have a problem if I simply tell him I am not comfortable taking it and want to see how I do w/out it. Also, I am waiting from doc on saliva testing becuz bloodwork showed I am very low in DHEA and another test showed I am adrenal fatigued. I am concerned doc will suggest DHEA and from what Ive read is you shouldnt have both dhea and testosterone since they are both androgens. Do you have advice on dhea and adrenal fatigue? I am hopeful I am on the right track and am so thankful I found a doc who listens and is very knowledgeable in nutrition and hormones but want to gain as much knowledge myself before our next consultation when we review my saliva tests.

Feb 14, 2012
Switching from sublinguil drops to transdermal cream
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Marie - whatever you do don't take DHEA as it increases the risk of ovarian cysts and cancer, partly because it increases testosterone. No woman should take either DHEA or testosterone. I am quite sure that Wray will provide more information on this.

I am also quite amazed at your comment about your concerns about what your doctor might say. This is your body and your right to take or use whatever you feel is correct for you.

I am not sure if it is alright to go cold turkey on testosterone, but if it were me I would stop taking your combination and switch to progesterone cream only. Cream is the best delivery method by the way as it can be used all over the body as and when needed.

Take care.

Feb 14, 2012
Switching from sublinguil drops to transdermal cream
by: Wray

Hi Marie Well I'm relieved he will listen to you. What a pity you have a combined cream, please do stop as soon as you can. And the same goes for DHEA, you are right, it does increase testosterone, and has adverse side effects, see here, here, here and here. Adrenal fatigue can be helped by progesterone. The adrenals first secrete progesterone, which they then convert into cortisol. If stressed the adrenals rob other sources, notably the ovaries. This upsets the reproductive system, in fact stress can stop ovulation, it can also cause miscarriages, as the progesterone plummets. Adrenal glandulars are another option, rather than drugs. This is a good site on Adrenal Fatigue. Take care Wray

Feb 14, 2012
Responding to Joy and Wray on DHEA
by: Anonymous

Hi Joy & Wray,
I apprciate your comments. It's hard to get in a txt the full spectrum of what someone is trying to say and has been thru the last 4 mos. I totally agree that it is my own body and I will do what I feel is best! My concern is if he suggests the DHEA, I am at a place of research with this and I am seeking the right answers and becuz I trust him it sometimes is confusing as you read so many things that contradict each other.I have in the last 4 mos been fighting to find the best answers and to do whats best for my body. I have left my first dctr becuz it seems he only wanted to prescribe an AD in which I am totally against and kept telling me I was totally healthy even thoI knew I clearly was feeling awful! Finally figured out it was hormonal! I have researched all of the vitamins I need to be taking and that is why I went to this new dctr. He is a nutritionist that takes natural approaches as well as specializing in hormones and has a backround in internal meds so I feel he is very well rounded. He himself had health probs some yrs back and that is when he decided to get away from drug prescriptions and go with more natural things. I went to him to discuss my vitamins and qtys and didnt realize he was also a hormone dctr. He is the one who told me cream was safer than sublinguil drops. Anyway, I say all this to say I finally found a doc who seems to really know what he is doing but even with that I always research and question everything I put into my body. This of course is why I am inquiring thru this website. I appreciate the input with DHEA. I am leaning towards not taking becuz honestly I see that I am just now starting to feel better having been on progesterone 3 mos now. Even tho I tested low in DHEA I do believe what Wray said bout progesterone helping that and I believe the prgesterone has finally kicked in and after a stressful year last yr my body is finally recovering. I feel I should continue with my vitamins, healthy eating and progesterone only and see how it goes and if it continues to get better. I believe it will.:) I am already worlds better than I had been when all this hit! ;) Thanks Wray for the suggestion of Adrenal glandulars. I will look into this as I am against drugs! This is exactly why I am seeking answers so I can then research and go in with knowledge and the right ?'s when my saliva tests come back. Thanks so much to both of you! ;)

Feb 14, 2012
One more ?
by: Marie

Hi Joy, I may have accidentally responded by "Annonymous" rather than my name in my last reply but it is adressed to both you and Wray. I forgot one other ?. You said you wouldn't quit the Testosterone cold turkey but it is compounded in the same cream as my progesterone so I really cant gradully decrease it. Do you think I will suffer symptoms quiting the Testosterone cold turkey? Appreciate Wray's thoughts on this as well! ;)

Feb 14, 2012
One more
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Marie - yes I am aware that your progesterone is mixed with testosterone and I really do not know what would happen if one went cold turkey on testosterone, Wray would have to advise with this. It really is best to take a progesterone cream on it's own. I have never heard of one mixed with testosterone to be honest.
Will be interesting to read what Wray has to say.
Take care.

Feb 15, 2012
Responding to Joy and Wray on DHEA
by: Wray

Hi Marie I realised it was you! It is a minefield out there, and you do have to tread carefully. This is the reason I give research papers to everyone, at least they can make an informed decision about the drug/hormone they've been advised to take. Hence those on DHEA and testosterone. If you really want to find out the answers the best place to search is PubMed and Google Scholar. You'll be taken straight to the studies, no blogs at all! These are the most confusing, misinformed means of finding the truth. I was delighted when you told me your doc said the cream was a better system, it is, plenty of studies on those too! I'm happy too that you are beginning to feel better. You'll feel much better when you're off the testosterone. It is safe to come off it cold turkey, which you will do if you stop the combo cream. But as Joy cautioned you could have side effects, much like coming off oestrogen. What you will experience I don't know, maybe nothing, particularly if you continue with the progesterone only cream. Maybe you'd keep in touch with us and let us know. Then we can pass on your experience to other women. Take care Wray

Feb 15, 2012
Burning tongue/mouth still going on..
by: Angel

Hi again, I just have a few more questions. Here are my symptoms right now...anxiety, insomnia (some nights waking at 3am and can't get back to sleep for a while), heart palpitations, acid reflux, feeling almost flu-like where I have no energy. I do have a thyroid condition this is being treated with medication, but I also may have adrenal fatigue. I am doing a saliva test tomorrow to see where I am at there. Are you familiar with thyroid issues at all? I think I may have reverse T3 dominance going on and could be why I feel so sick. I am 39, having periods that come somewhat regularly from day 28-30--although this month it was a bit early for me on day 26--likely from the 15 pound weight loss from my burning mouth and tongue. My period will last about 8 or 9 days--bleeding normally Days 1-4--then day 4 bleeding will stop--back on day 5 with spotting and goes on like this for a couple more days. Doesn't sound normal to me. I am the one who had SVT/had the ablation and was afraid of high amounts of progesterone cream. How do I know that I need it? Just don't want to add something and have it do more harm than good. I am not even able to work right now.:( Are these all signs or could it be adrenal fatigue or the reverse T3 issue? Thanks Wray!!

Feb 15, 2012
Progesterone & testosterone
by: Marie

Hi Wray, thanks again for your input and I agree a blog is not the best place to figure this all out. I will look into those websites you gave me as well as others. I have an appt with my dctr to discuss the testosterone. His nurse told me he would like to discuss with me before I go off. Nurse has told me it is such a low dose I am on, much like the amt my body would have naturally made in my 20's and also it is bioidentical. I am willing to wait another week and see what he has to say. He has a great reputation for his knowledge in hormone therapy. I am willing to hear him before I go off and address him with questions I have in concern to testosterone and then I will need to make a decision and will keep you posted.

Feb 16, 2012
Burning tongue/mouth still going on..
by: Wray

Hi Angel I'm puzzled you still have the heart palps, as I thought this had been fixed by the ablation you had done. It strikes me the burning tongue is related to stress in your case, you say you have Anxiety, please look through this page as it gives a list of nutrients which help. Progesterone does too, and it's helpful for insomnia, see here and here. Andenosine is also involved in the sleep/wake cycle, see here, here, here, here. So is dopamine, see here. So is glutathione, see here, and so is nitric oxide, see here. Progesterone stimulates the release of all four of these. You say your vitamin D level is high, has it been checked recently? As this does have a bearing on thyroid function, see here, here and here. A lack of the amino acid tyrosine, the precursor to T3 and T4, affects thyroid function. A lack of iodine and selenium too, have all these been checked? High cortisol inhibits thyroid function. Adrenaline, another of our stress hormones made by the adrenals, also inhibits the conversion of T4 to T3, and increases rT3 production. Progesterone helps calm and reduces adrenaline levels. Stress of course increases adrenaline. I suggested you take taurine as this also helps calm, both the mind and the heart, did you try it? It appears the anxiety you have is causing the problem. So yes I do believe you need progesterone, taurine too. Other calming amino acids are glycine, GABA and tyrosine. Take care Wray

Feb 16, 2012
Progesterone & testosterone
by: Wray

Hi Marie You are still making testosterone, you will never stop making it. The menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, see here. Plus our adrenals make it, so do the kidneys, see here. The one thing never checked is the free testosterone, often total testosterone can be normal, but the free is higher than it should be. See how you get on, and if you find you're putting weight on round your middle, know it's the testosterone. Take care Wray

Feb 16, 2012
Thanks!!!
by: Marie

Thanks Wray!!! I am digesting all of this info and will keep you informed!

Feb 17, 2012
Thanks!!!
by: Wray

Hi Marie Please do as it's the only way we can all learn from each other! Take care Wray

Feb 17, 2012
hormonal insomnia +
by: Kelz

Hi Wray, Feeling very enlightened by this page, thank you!!. I am 29 years old and I have had severe insomnia anywhere from 5-12 days before I get my period. I was taking progesterone one pill 100mg a night. It seemed to work for a bit then the insomnia came back so I gve up taking any hormone pills as was also taking dhea. I definitely know my problem is hormonal but I really want to know how much I can take to try get my sleep back on track, I was so afraid of taking too much and feeling drowsy I never changed the dose but from reading other peoples comments I can take a lot more and considering im only actually getting 10mg since my gut and liver destroy the rest. I went through an extremely stressful time 4 years ago which seemed to be the trigger of all this. I also have extremely bad hormonal acne which I have never had a problem with in my life, Ive always had nice skin. My skin just breaks out severely each month and is very depressing.
I have ordered a saliva test which I do next month. But I guess I would just love to have any suggestions from you. Im also going to start taking a good quality Vit D again and zinc as Ive also had probs with hair loss. Thanks for your time. Kelz

Feb 18, 2012
hormonal insomnia +
by: Wray

Hi Kelz You are right, oral progesterone is the least effective Delivery system. I find the cream by far the best system, it can be used anywhere, plus it's absorbed well too. Many studies show this, plus we run our own Saliva Tests. Please consider changing to one. I do recommend 100-200mg/day, as you've undoubtedly gathered, far more than most. The typical 20-40mg/day that is recommended does not raise levels to that found in the luteal phase. One study found that using 40mg/day "…. only low plasma progesterone levels were found (median 2.5 nmol/l)". The ranges for the luteal phase are 15.9 - 63.6 nmol/L (5 to 20 ng/ml). Men secrete <3.18 nmol/L (<1 ng/ml), see here. Stress does drop progesterone levels, vitamin D too, both are needed for healthy skin. We do have a page on Acne. But briefly excess free testosterone is responsible for the acne. Free testosterone rises if SHBG is low, progesterone increases levels of SHBG, so reducing the free testosterone, see here. Fructose, sucrose and glucose decrease levels of SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively. It's essential to avoid all sugars, and sweet starchy foods, ie grains, legumes, and fruits or veggies which fall into this category. Progesterone is helpful for sleep too, see here and here. Zinc does help acne, as you'll see on the page I've given. Other nutrients for hair loss are Vitamin D 5000iu's/day as a minimum, Inositol 2000-4000mg/day, NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) 1000-2000mg/day, Biotin 2-3mg and Thiamine 100mg/day. Take care Wray

Feb 18, 2012
SHBG?
by: kelz

Hi Wray, thanks so much for your response. This might sound silly but what is the Luteal phase and also what is SHBG?
Also I was wondering is it bad to take progesterone every day of the month? I was going to take start taking 100mg capsule once in the morning then two at night so effectively releasing around 30mg into my body?? This is just until I get more cream this week hopefully. I cant take the saliva test for another month or so. Is that an ok amount to take with the pills? Definitely going to get all those vitamins for my skin and hair that you recommended. Thanks so much for your time.
Kelz

Feb 19, 2012
SHBG?
by: Wray

Hi Kelz I'm sorry, I'm getting lazy with giving the full names, as they are normally in the papers I give. SHBG is such a mouthful too….. sex hormone binding globulin! SHBG is a glycoprotein that binds to sex hormones, to be specific, testosterone and estradiol. Other steroid hormones such as progesterone, cortisol, and other corticosteroids are bound by transcortin, see here. And the luteal phase occurs in all women from ovulation to bleeding, unless they have anovulatory cycles. Ie they don't ovulate, so don't make progesterone, see here. No it's not harmful to use it daily, through bleeding too. I often recommend this if symptoms are severe, or the cycle is very disrupted. It ensures excess oestrogen is suppressed, and allows progesterone to become the dominant hormone. I suggest following this for 2-3 months, and then to follow the cycle again. We have more info about this on our page How to use progesterone cream. I would also suggest you open the caps and mix the contents with a small amount of cold pressed oil, or a natural skin cream and rub that on. This allows full absorption of the progesterone, none is wasted. If you do this you will only need to use 1 or 2 caps a day. But please be aware you could get Oestrogen Dominance, as you will be increasing the progesterone substantially. Please don't reduce the amount as many do, blaming the progesterone. The only way to overcome symptoms is to increase it. Take care Wray

Feb 20, 2012
too much progesterone
by: Anonymous

Please help

I have been taking bio identical hormones in an ad hoc way over the past 4 years. Last year I consulted a doctor who prescribed me 50 mgs prog, 1 mg biest, 1 mg testosterone and 1 mg dhea. For 6 months I felt fantastic. I then started to feel a little unwell and was then prescribed a lozenge of 67 mg prog, 2mg biest and 1 mg testosterone. I soon felt unwell with the worst symptom being a vice like feeling around the top of my head accompanied with digestive problems and hot flashes. It was then suggested that I was reacting badly to one of the hormones and that I should go on to the individual hormone creams to see which one I was reacting to. Evidence pointed to progesterone so, on the advice of my doctor, I stopped prog for a while and yet continued with the biest 2.50 mg and testosterone 1mg. I gradually introduced the prog back in after approximately 2 wks starting with 5 mgs and then increasing by 5 mgs until I was up to 30 mgs prog at night with 1.25 mg of biest and 1.25 mg biest and 1 mg testosterone in the morning. I was fairly stable on this, although not brilliant. I took a three day break from all hormones, as directed, and went back on prog 25 mgs with 1.25 mgs biest in the evening. This produced exactly the same vice like sensation around my head, hot flushes, and feeling very unwell. No one seems to have any idea as to what is happening and my doctor is now suggesting I should have a coil that supplies synthetic prog rather than the bio identicals. I wonder if you have any ideas as to what is actually going on and how I should now move forward.

Feb 22, 2012
too much progesterone
by: Wray

Hi there Yes I have very strong views about given additional oestrogen to women. Oestrogen in any form. We have more info on our HRT page. And testosterone should never be given, see here, here, here, here, here here, here, here, here and here. All three of these hormones interact with each other, stimulate each other if a low level is used, or suppress if a high level is used. There's more info on our Oestrogen Dominance page. DHEA it should not be given either, see here, here, here and here. And you're using a low level of progesterone, so it's stimulating oestrogen. The typical 20-40mg/day that is recommended does not raise levels to that found in the luteal phase. One study found that using 40mg/day "…. only low plasma progesterone levels were found (median 2.5 nmol/l)". The ranges for the luteal phase are 15.9 - 63.6 nmol/L (5 to 20 ng/ml). Men secrete <3.18 nmol/L (<1 ng/ml), see here. Continued below.

Feb 22, 2012
too much progesterone Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there 50mg/day would not fare much better, probably less due to the uphill battle it'll have against the added oestrogen and testosterone. I recommend 100-200mgday, more if symptoms are severe. You appear to be in either Peri-menopause or
Menopause judging by the short break you've been told to take. I don't believe this is necessary either, as it allows oestrogen to rise again, so I recommend using it daily if there's no cycle to follow. Please don't have a coil impregnated with a progestin, see here. And our page on Contraceptives. Take care Wray


Feb 24, 2012
progesterone and melatonin
by: Kelz

Hi Dr Wray, Thank you so much for all your very helpful information, im sure its going to change my life. I went to buy my progesterone cream here in NZ yesterday and was feeling a little frustrated as they have always sold me the capsules which I now realise are not very effective so I managed to get off them 40mg/g cream so I was wondering if Im trying to take 200mg at least a day, in the morning if used 3 x 1g scoops that would give me 120mg? and then since I still have a lot of capsules I have been breaking them open and mixing with moisturiser so that would be approx 220mg per day if I did one 100mg capsule at night. Are the pills broken open still quite effective? The lady at the counter seems to think the pills are just as effective as cream so im lead to believe shes not that knowledgable about progesterone as this clinic is an appearance and wellness clinic so not completely hormone specialists. I find I have the same problem with many doctors who just dont seem to understand and only want to give everyone anti-depressents to solve all health issues even if your at your happiest.
So another thing I wanted to ask since my symptoms from lack of prgesterone is insomnia should I be taking melatonin as well as this lady was adamant I should be taking melatonin and magnesium as well, I already take magnesium each night but interested to hear your thoughts on melatonin. Im taking all the other vitamins you suggested and was also wondering when I can reduce the dose of any of them as they are rather expensive to keep taking. Could I reduce once im feeling better?
Well im still having bad insomnia but Im going to persevere until this progesterone gets working properly as its only been just over a week since starting taking it and I was already in my bad insomnia week or the month. Sorry for the novel Ive seemed to have written here haha! Thanks again, I love your page and have so many friends with endo and infertitlity that could benefit from reading your fantastic research and advice.

Feb 25, 2012
progesterone and melatonin
by: Wray

Hi Kelz Your maths is correct. The progesterone will be absorbed so much better if you do open then and add them to a cream. If you want to convince your clinic give them the papers on the delivery page I gave you! You are so right about the AD's, they are dished out to women no matter what the problem! And it's known they only help a third of the people taking them. Melatonin is good for sleep, although I've found tryptophan better. This amino acid is the precursor to serotonin, which is the precursor to melatonin. If you can't get the tryp, then try the melatonin if the progesterone doesn't help. Another is inositol which I suggested you take for the hair loss. It does help raise serotonin levels. And of course you can come off the nutrients once you feel better, do it slowly though, no need to give yourself a shock. As your insomnia comes the few days before your period, you could increase the progesterone during those days. Please be aware of Oestrogen Dominance when you stop the progesterone for your period. Unless you're following the advice I gave about using it daily for 2-3 months. Thanks for the kind words! And I'm sorry to hear about your friends, both those problems are on the rise. I'm sure it's mostly due to a lack of vitamin D. Take care Wray

Feb 25, 2012
insomnia
by: Kelz

Hello again thanks for your reply. So at present im going to keep using the 200mg every single day for the first 2-3 mths then would you recomend I stop while I have my period, I only ever get a 3 day period. Im taking the inositol you recommended so that may help the melatonin. If the oestrogen dominace wears off soon im sure my sleep will improve, fingers crossed as its been a really hard couple of weeks and last 4 years too :( I will keep you posted as to whether my insomnia improves. Thanks so much!!!

Feb 25, 2012
Follow up comments
by: Marie

Hi Wray,
I spoke with you a few texts ago about feeling my dctr would put me on DHEA because f my adrenal fatigue. Actually, turns out my dhea was fine but my cortisol was extremely high. He gave me a natural supplment called Serencalm. It has tryptophan in it along with some other things and I am sleeping much better and also feeling so much more refreshed in the mornings and more energy throughout the day. He also found my B6 needs upping and I also am taking a protein/amino acids drink shake that has glycine in it to combat possible exposue to Xylene. This showed up in my urine work thru testing called Organix profile. He will recheck me in 3 mos and I can come off the nutrients then if my adrenals have healed. I am already feeling much better so I think that in combination with progesterone has me finally on the right track after 4 months of misery! Yay for dctrs who really find out whats wrong and treats naturally!!! ;)

Feb 26, 2012
insomnia
by: Wray

Hi Kelz If you feel stable after the 2-3 months, then you can begin following your cycle. Just watch for Oestrogen Dominance when you do. I hope the inositol helps, the melatonin too. Please remember it does take time, it's not a quick fix, nothing natural is. and I would like to hear if you've been helped. I'm sure others would too, as many have similar problems. Take care Wray

Feb 26, 2012
Follow up comments
by: Wray

Hi Marie This is such good news. I'm a great believer in tryptophan, so I'm delighted he's given you some. Tryp does need B6 to convert it into serotonin, so I'm pleased you're taking it. I find the tryp doesn't work as well without it. I'm interested he's using glycine to reduce the xylene, as I would normally use cysteine. I would love to know why if you can ask him! And yes, I do wish there were more like him. Please keep in touch. Take care Wray

Feb 27, 2012
Too much or too little progesterone
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray: Hope you can give me some advice. I've been using progesterone 4% cream (40mg/gm)1/8 tsp. each evening for the past yr. and continuing to gain weight (20 lbs)so far. I also take tri-est 0.6.25 2x day and DHEA 10 mg. I think I'm dependent on the progesterone to sleep. I've been tested for low thyroid, but my numbers are perfect (in fact, I've recently had a metabolism test and my metabolism is apparently 38% higher than an average woman my age. I'm 65). Am I taking too much progesterone and is that why I'm gaining weight? Or is it not enough? Should I stop taking DHEA and Tri est? I work out 7 days a week for 1-2 hours also, but I'm not making any progress. Can you help me?

Feb 27, 2012
follow up comments
by: Marie

Hi Wray,
Dctr didnt actually say glycine in itself would deplete the xylene but the report I got back from my Urine test (Organix profile) showed glycine is usually used for this cause. Dctr howver gave me a shake mix called "Amino Restore" which has glycine in it, but I notice it has Cystine as well. It has 1,000 mg of glycine and 100 mg of cystine. I could ask about it but will not see dctr til my follow up appt 3 mos from now.

Feb 28, 2012
Too much or too little progesterone
by: Wray

Hi there 1/8 tsp of a 4% cream will give you 25mg/day progesterone, to my mind far too little. I recommend 100-200mg/day. Too low a level will merely ramp up oestrogen. We have more info on our Oestrogen Dominance page. Oestrogen is an excitatory, inflammatory hormone, it's also a mitogen causing proliferation of cells, including fat cells. Progesterone inhibits mitosis. Oestrogen also causes water retention, whereas progesterone is an excellent diuretic. So much so it's now given via IV transfusion to Traumatic Brain Injury victims to prevent any oedema forming. I don't believe you should be taking extra oestrogen for the reasons given above, or DHEA either, it increases testosterone levels, see here, here, here and here. According to this one study the menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, see here. Androgens are notorious at increasing visceral fat, see here and here. We do have more info on our Menopause page. Take care Wray

Feb 28, 2012
follow up comments
by: Wray

Hi Marie Many thanks, I'll try looking into it. But the complex you are on is very good, I'm actually amazed, as normally they never give enough aminos. I must make a note of it for referrals. Take care Wray

Feb 29, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Anonymous

Results from my most recent Spit Test show my progesterone to be at 74,347. What does that mean? How high is too high? Should I cut back on the amount of progesterone I'm taking? What happens if I stop taking progesterone all together?

Also, the first Spit Test I did before I started on progesterone showed my level to be 3182 (also high) so now I'm confused as to why my doc even started me on progesterone. Could this be the reason I have continued to gain weight?

Feb 29, 2012
Follow up comments
by: Marie

Thanks for the reply. I also found out today that I need to up my Vit D to 2000 IU's. I definately am feeling better and am so thankful to be on the right track. Dctr said he will recheck me in 3 mos and see then if I can come off the nutrients but for now things are for sure improving! ;)

Mar 01, 2012
Follow up comments
by: Wray

Hi Marie I'm so pleased things are improving for you. I'm puzzled why they said to increase your vitamin D to 2000iu's, as the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Please consider increasing it. Take care Wray

Mar 01, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Wray

Hi there I'm not puzzled by the high level, as it can go higher if supplementing, see here. But if your level was already high to begin with, I am puzzled why he gave it to you. Presumably you had Oestrogen Dominance? Progesterone can't cause weight gain, it speeds metabolism. Whereas oestrogen can cause it, please see our page on Progesterone Misconceptions which explains why. You say you are taking progesterone, so I'm really puzzled why the level is so high, as oral progesterone is the least effective Delivery system. Take care Wray

Mar 01, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray: Thank you for taking the time to try to help me. You asked why my doc gave me progesterone in the first place? I'm not sure, I believed it was because I was having heart palpitations, but I've since discovered that heart issues are the results of too little estrogen, not progesterone?
The first time I did a Spit Test my progesterone level was 3182 and the lab indicated that number was high. So now I'm wondering if I should even be taking progesterone. I no longer have heart palpitations, but for the last six months since I've been on progesterone I have continued to gain weight. I don't have any other symptoms of estrogen dominance but I do understand that progesterone may offer some protection against breast cancer and other cancers.
I do feel bloated and uncomfortable with the weight gain and i would really like to resolve that problem. Thanks for your help.

Mar 01, 2012
Vitamin D
by: Marie

Thanks for the info on Vit D. I am also puzzled because a friend of mine who had extremely low D was put on 10,000 IU's and then when her #'s got better she was reduced and is now also on 2000 IU's. I will have to do some research on this. Thanks!!!

Mar 02, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Wray

Hi there I take it you were not using any progesterone prior to having your first test? And can you let me know how much you're using now, and if it's oral progesterone. You mention 'taking' it. The reason you don't have heart palpitations is because of the progesterone, you doctor is quite right! Oestrogen can cause prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here, here and here. In fact a very recent study has found oestrogen can cause sudden cardiac death. It's probably responsible for SCAD too, spontaneous coronary artery dissection, as this affects mainly women, see here. It does have protective properties, especially as we get older, see here, here, here, here and here. And has been used successfully in some Cancers. Take care Wray

Mar 02, 2012
Vitamin D
by: Wray

Hi Marie It was probably because the doctor or lab said her levels were now normal. The 'adequate' level according to the FDA is 30ng/ml, whereas the specialists say it should be 50ng/ml. do you know what your level is? Happy researching, the links I've given you are the best. Take care Wray

Mar 03, 2012
Vitamin D
by: Marie

My level was 45

Mar 04, 2012
Vitamin D
by: Wray

Hi Marie Thanks for this, your level is low. The 2000iu's per day you're currently taking won't do much to raise it. Please consider increasing to 5000iu's per day. Take care Wray

Mar 04, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray: I was not using any hormone supplement before I took my first Spit Test which is why I was surprised that my initial progesterone score was 3182. What would account for a number that high? As you suggested, my doc put me on both oral progesterone (and told me that much of it would not be absorbed)in addition to a cream to arrest the heart palpitations...which it did. My doc has gradually moved me off the oral progesterone but I continue to take 1/8 tsp. of a 4% (40mg)cream every night. My last Spit Test showed my progesterone score at 74,347. I'm worried this is way too high. I just met with a nutrionist who told me to stop taking all hormone supplements because she said there was no documented value in them and they could eventually be harmful. She suggested the progesterone was the reason I'm not able to lose weight. What happens if I just stop using the progesterone cream? Thank you for your help.

Mar 04, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray: I forgot to include that my ratio: PG/E2 (saliva) is 106,210 (H). Apparently, optimal is 100-500? Also, my testosterone, DHEA and cortisol were Ok. I thought this additional information might give you a better picture of where I am?

Thanks for your help.

Mar 04, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Wray

Hi there I am puzzled why your level was so high prior to using progesterone, and can't see any reason. Which lab did the test? The high level now using could be accounted for, although oral is the least effective Delivery system. And the 25mg/day you're using via the cream is not enough to send levels that high. It needs to 200mg/day and over before that level is reached, see here. The nutritionist needs to get on the web and check all the documented info about progesterone. Just put the word progesterone into PubMed and you get over 94 thousand papers….not documented?! Well if progesterone is harmful, then I've had it, as I've been using about 170mg/day for 15 years now, and feel wonderful! Oestrogen is the reason for weight gain, explained on that progesterone misconceptions page. Please don't just stop the progesterone, as symptoms come back. Reduce it very slowly, although you are such a low amount, it's going to be difficult. I feel there has to be something wrong with the lab results, I can see no other reason. Let me know how you feel after stopping it. Take care Wray

Mar 04, 2012
natpro cream
by: Kelz

Hi Wray, any chance you could post natpro to the Cook Islands (Rarotonga) I noticed its not on your options of countrys you can send to? Have you ever posted to New Zealand? Thanks

Mar 05, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray: Thank you, thank you for taking the time to provide this valuable information. I sooooo appreciate the fact that you're out there!I am relieved to have someone to talk to about my issues with progesterone and based on the data you've provided I have started using my progesterone cream again. And in just two days I can report that (even though I'm probably not using enough) I feel more calm and I've slept like a rock these past two nights.

Since you are taking 170mg. of progesterone daily (for 15 yrs.) would you be willing to comment on how you arrived at that amount...what kinds of symptoms you experienced...and what kind, if any, issues you had that led to believe you needed more not less. I'm thinking from the information you have provided that I may be one of those people who need closer to 200 mg as well.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all you do.

Mar 05, 2012
natpro cream
by: Wray

Hi Kelz I've asked the orders department, and unfortunately it can't be posted to Rarotonga. But yes we have many in NZ using it, and it gets there no problem. Can take about 3 weeks though. Do you have any way of getting it from there? The islands seem idylic, do you live there!? I was born on a tropical island, Singapore, and have always hankered after living on one again. Take care Wray

Mar 06, 2012
Thyroid symptoms and menopause
by: Maria

Hi Wray

Its been a while since I posted a comment,and have been using Natpro for 18 months now. Having some blood tests about 9 months ago, my doctor noticed my TSH levels were surpressed free T4: 20 and free T3: 6.9, and so repeated the test 6 weeks later, and they were the same, did them again a couple of months later and TSH still suppressed, free T4 slightly higher at 21.8 and T3 at 8.8 antibody level was normal but TSH receptor antibody level raised at 2.7.

I am not keen to start taking medication, because I dont like taking tablets, but was very fatigued and down, very hot sweats and palpitations and in the end my doc sent me to see an endocrinologist which I paid for privately - he said I could become very ill if the symptoms were ignored.

I have had more blood tests and also a thyroid function scan (which turned out to be normal, as is my cholesterol, and calcium levels) he is very intrigued by it all and has agreed to keep an eye on things. Both he and my doctor did suggest however that at 54 I am still young and the sweats could last for some time, to give me a quality of life I possibly need a little oestrogen supplementation as I have no libido, hardly any lubrication and the sweats really are the pits, making life very difficult, having to shed clothing on a very quick regular basis before I literally melt!!

He knows I am against the supplementation but since my hysterectomy with the removal of my ovaries, I havent felt myself although much better with the use of Natpro, but its not helping with the things I symptoms I have mentioned. I have tried using a very large adose of Natpro as you recommend for 4 or 5 days on a few occasions but I never get complete relief and the hot sweats are there all the time. Is there a link between thyroid problems and menopause, or linked with progesterone which is giving a strange reading to my thyroid tests?

If I try a supplemental, after reading Dr Lee's book Natural Progesterone, his suggestion is the very lowest dose of Oesriol (rather than oestrone, or oestradiol) along side progesterone. Could I ask for your opinion on this and if you think it could help - and if so, is there a natural cream similar to Natpro that I could use?

I promised I would go away and think about things and come back to my consultant, so your advice would be much appreciated in helping make a decision. I had more blood taken for a further thyroid check today and I asked him to check my oestrogen and progesterone levels at the same time - am awaiting the results from this.

Many thanks Wray

Best wishes xx

Mar 07, 2012
Thyroid symptoms and menopause
by: Wray

Hi Maria It's good to hear from you again, even if it is with more problems! I'm puzzled by your T3 and T4, and I don't know whether they were measured in mcg/dL, ng/dL or nmol/L. These are the 'normal' levels…..
T3 total (triiodothyronine)
Normal values are 100 - 200 ng/dL or 1.54 - 3.08 nmol/L
Medline T3
And...
Thyroid UK

T4 total (thyroxine or tetraiodothyronine)
Normal values are 4 to 11 mcg/dL or 60 - 140 nmol/L
Medline T4

I've converted the Medline info into nmol/L, as they don't give it. The thyroid is very complex, and often misunderstood. But why oh why do they say you will become very ill if you ignore it. That's enough to make anyone ill! Please look through this website Stop the Thyroid Madness. It's very comprehensive and will give you a better understanding. Progesterone speeds metabolism slightly so does help the thyroid. I'm sorry the Hot Flushes are still troubling you, as at one point you said with the help of tryptophan and B6 you were being helped. Are you still taking them? Plus you tried the high amounts of progesterone too. Have you been through more stress recently, more than normal, as who isn't stressed now! The palpitations are evident your oestrogen is still high. Oestrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here. Continued below.

Mar 07, 2012
Thyroid symptoms and menopause Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Maria And more here, here and here. Please consider taking calcium D-glucarate. Oestrogen is metabolised in the liver by glucuronic acid, the process is known as glucuronidation. Glucuronidation is one of the major detoxification pathways of the liver. It removes carcinogens, toxins, tumour promoters, the sex hormones ie, the androgens and oestrogens, mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids, aromatic and heterocyclic amines, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, various nitrosamines, drugs, fungi etc. It's then excreted in the bile, but an enzyme in the intestine called beta-glucuronidase reverses the glucuronidation process. It breaks the glucoronide bond between a toxin and glucuronic acid, and releases carcinogens, toxins and excess steroid hormones back into circulation. There's evidence beta-glucuronidase activity is increased in breast and prostate cancer. Calcium D-glucarate inhibits beta-glucuronidase, see here, here, here and here. Incidentally this enzyme is produced by undesirable gut bacteria, supplementing with probiotics suppresses the bacteria, and subsequently the beta-glucuronidase. Silymarin from milk thistle also inhibits beta-glucuronidase, plus it helps the liver detox. It still seems to me it's because oestrogen is too high, which is strange to say after the time you've been on progesterone. There's evidence that progesterone helps libido, in men too, definitely not oestrogen, see here and here. Many women use the progesterone in their vagina, using either a finger or syringe to apply it. It's a potent anti-inflammatory, and can help dryness. But by all means try the oestriol, but I can't give you the name of a cream. If you find one, apply it in the vagina too. Continued below.

Mar 07, 2012
Thyroid symptoms and menopause Part 3
by: Wray

Hi Maria Have they checked your prolactin levels? If this is high it suppresses dopamine, dopamine is essential for a normal sexual response. The amino acid tyrosine is the precursor to dopamine, so helps raise levels. Dopamine is also essential for vitality too, a lack causes depression. Tyrosine is also essential to the thyroid, it's the precursor to T3 and T4. These are a few papers about the thyroid here, here, here and here. Have you had a vitamin D test done? Are you taking any? This is such a vital nutrient, affecting every cell, a lack reduces the benefits of progesterone and causes depression, it's vital for the thyroid too, amongst many other things. Many women have found once they get their level high, their symptoms go. Please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray xx

Mar 07, 2012
Natpro cream
by: Kelz

Hi again,
Thats ok I will have it delivered to NZ as will be passing back through. I have lived on and off for the past 9 years in beautiful Rarotonga and have also been to singapore. Anyone who has had the chance to spend time in these stunning tropical places are very lucky. Im heading to Raro on Friday for 6 weeks so cant wait! I am able to buy cream here in NZ but very expensive. Just wondering my skin has gone dreadful again like 30 smal blister type pimples on my forehead do you think it will settle down eventually. Its just so bizarre to not have acne my whole life until the last year or two. Cant wait to my body is all functioning properly. I am sleeping much better but waking up really groggy for some reason. But willing to ride all these things out. Thanks again :)

Mar 07, 2012
Natpro cream
by: Wray

Hi Kelz Well you are so lucky! I don't understand why the cream is so expensive there, it shouldn't be. Get them to stock the Natpro! Stress takes so much out of us, and of course it takes time to regain health again. How much progesterone are you using, it could be you need to increase the amount. I do hope you're avoiding all the grains and legumes too. I'm pleased the sleeping is now better. And waking up groggy, I used to have that but it went after a few weeks on the progesterone. I've gone blank again on how long you've used it! Maybe you could let me know, and the amount too. Take care Wray

Mar 07, 2012
Thyroid and Menopause 1,2,3
by: Maria

Wray, you are an angel, thank you for responding so quickly - some of the things I can answer, the others I am going to have to find out - for info, I also had my gall bladder removed in the early 90's. The link to stop the Thyroid madness makes very interesting reading ... I will spend some more time browsing there.

I had stopped taking the tryptophan and B6 (actually, I was taking a supplement of all the B vitamins - not sure if that makes a difference?) but I seemed to be popping so many different kinds of supplements, and decided to try GABA for my thyroid 2 x 500mg I read somewhere that this helped to regulate it. I did feel better when I took it (for around 4 months) however, my sweats were increasing and I managed to lose a bit of weight - I was quite hyper so my husband said.

I decided to stop taking it though, because I was so certain it was helping my thyroid that when the results came back worse not better, I just assumed I must have been imaging it all.

Maybe I should go back to the tryptophan, although I had reached 1500mg a night - is that dosage OK?

I have been taking Vitamin D for over a year now, the dosage is 1 tablet containing 500% RDA. (25µg) I also take Chlorella, Bromelain, Green Mussel Extract, priobiotic (4 billion friendly bacteria) and biotin. I often wonder if taking so much just cancels out the effect of one against the other). I spend a fortune on vitamins and herbal stuff.

Stress... well yes, my whole life is one big stress and has been for years, my doctor even said he thinks that half my problems could be put down to that, to be honest, I still grieve for my Mum who died 16 months ago and a bunch of other stuff which is all too much to go into.

Before my hysterectomy I used to take dong quai and I found that it made a real difference to my libido or rather the whole experience - but as the experience was connected to my uterus which i dont have any more, I guessed I dont need it now.

I try to choose organic, dont eat much red meat and check labels for parabens.

I use the progesterone cream as a lubricant on occasions when it feels really uncomfortable, but it feels so completely different. I never feel sexy or good about myself anymore, it would be so good to feel like my old self again.

I will let you have my latest blood tests and will investigate the other points your raised too.

Thanks again Wray, good to know you are out there :-) xx

Mar 07, 2012
amounts
by: Kelz

Hi Wray,
Ive been opening a 100mg tablet and mixing with cream and applying that in the morning then 100mg of proper cream in the evening an hour before bed, im trying to use up the capsules I have left. Last night I decided not to take the melatonin and im not so groggy today so it could of been that. Im really concerned about my skin as its actualy painful and they are taking a while to heal and go away, the acne flares up every couple of week then the other two weeks its perfectly clear. Should I rub the progesterone on the acne itself every few days? Many thanks

Mar 09, 2012
Thyroid and Menopause 1,2,3
by: Wray

Hi Maria Well the route of all your symptoms is stress, it can slow the body right down. Hormones drop, neurotransmitters drop, digestion slows down or stops, etc etc! 25mcg of vitamin D is only giving you 1000iu's, you need to take a minimum of 5000iu's, I would actually suggest 10,000iu's for at least a month, to get your level up. then have another test, stress drops levels. I think you should go back to the tryp if you found it helping, but start off slowly again, as you've had a break. I also suggest stopping the supps, except the probiotics. The ones you're taking are all good, but I don't think you need them right now, apart from the added cost. Excess GABA can cause the very symptoms you're trying to address. This is the reason I prefer progesterone, as it activates the GABA receptor sites. If you're concerned about your thyroid try the tyrosine, and increase your vitamin D, this has an impact on thyroid function. It impacts every cell and therefore organ or gland. Keep using the progesterone in the vagina, not necessarily as a lubricant, but to stop the inflammation. Consider going to someone who does EFT, it helps release emotional stress, which often impacts on the physical side too. There are many practitioners the world over. Please contact Julienne on her website here, she can give you more advice. Take care Wray

Mar 09, 2012
amounts
by: Wray

Hi Kelz Progesterone is excellent for the face, see here. I use it every morning and night on my face, and have for 15 years now. But it doesn't really matter where you put it it's absorbed well everywhere, even the hair follicles absorb it, see here, and all kerotinocytes have ample receptors, see here. I have found it works slightly quicker if rubbed directly on the affected areas, ie burns, aches and pains, period cramps etc. I'm pleased you're opening the caps and rubbing them on, at least you'll get the full benefit now. It seems the flare up is following your cycle, so you could try using more progesterone during the two bad weeks. Let me know if this helps. Take care Wray


Mar 11, 2012
Vit D and Prog levels
by: Kelz

Hi Wray, I just came accross my old blood test from a couple of years ago which is the first one I had for hormones and im about to do a saliva test this week. Could you tell me a little bit about my results. Vitamin D was 73 nmol/l and Progestersone 23.2 nmol/l.
I tried to understand your levels page but Ive never really had it explained to me properly my doc just said that my results were ok but a little bit low here and there.
Thanks so much

Mar 13, 2012
Vit D and Prog levels
by: Wray

Hi Kelz I did a much better page than the levels one, see Hormone Testing. If your test was done when it should have been, ie mid-luteal phase, then your progesterone falls into the normal range, although a bit on the low side. Levels range from 15.9 - 63.6 nmol/L. But the critical factor is the P:E2 ratio, and you haven't given me the oestrogen. So I can't tell you what your ratio is, often it's too low, and that's why we have problems. We've found from Saliva Tests we run, that it's best to have a ratio of 600:1 and over to feel well. So please make sure they do both hormones, but as you have an occasional acne problem, they must do testosterone too. Both the total and free testosterone, it's pointless just doing the total. If they can't do the free testosterone, then they should test your SHBG (sex hormone binding hormone). Your vitamin D level is too low, please get more sun, and don't use a sunscreen until you've been in the sun for about 20-30 mins. If we all did this every day, none of us would be deficient. But too many live in climates where there is no sun in winter, or the angle it hits the earth is too oblique to make any. You need to get your level up between 175-250nmol/L, quickest to do this is by taking 10,000iu's per day for about a month, then reduce to 5000iu's per day. Then have another test in 3 months, thereafter every 6 months. Stress drops vitamin D, just as it does progesterone. The two work so well together, you might like to see this comment here. I so envy you, I keep thinking of that lovely island you're going to! Take care Wray

Mar 15, 2012
Blood results
by: Maria

Hi Wray, as promised, the results of my recent blood tests - exactly as written...

LH 43.4 IU/L
FSH 86.6 IU/L
Oestradiol <100 pmol/L
Prolactin 304 mU/L

Free T4 12.8 pmol/L range 9.0 - 20.0
TSH 0.05 uU/mL 0.30 - 6.00
Free T3 5.3 pmol/L 3.8 - 6.0
Progesterone 3.2 nmol/L
>30 nmol/L is consistent with ovulation

Testosterone 0.4 nmol/L range <1.5


I havent seent the doc yet, but would be good to hear your views on my hormone levels, before I see him, especially as they are gagging to put me on HRT.

Appreciate your views and thanks for your help.

Kind regards

Mar 17, 2012
What if you've had breast cancer?
by: Dee

I have tried Femgest progesterone cream and in 3 days my hot flashes,mood swings and depression have completely dissappeared. My doctor told me I had to stop it because I had breast cancer. She wants to put me on a antideppresant to help with the hot flashed and depression. I also have a lot of hair loss. Any comments with similar situations.

Mar 17, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray:

I think you missed my post on March 5, 2012. I asked if you'd talk about how you arrived at 170 mg. of progesterone for yourself and maybe discuss what kinds of symptoms you were experiencing that made you decide to increase your dosage to that amount. I'm at a low dose right now (you said it's only 25% of what you think I should be taking) and I'd like to know what kinds of symptoms to look for that would be mitigated with a larger dose. Thank you.

Mar 19, 2012
Blood results
by: Wray

Hi Maria Well your FSH and LH put you in the menopausal range, your oestradiol doesn't help much as they have it as less than 100, whatever that means! It's easy enough to test the accurate level. But in menopause the range is normally 0-110pmol/L, and progesterone is <3.18 nmol/L. Assuming your level of progesterone 3.2nmol/L and your oestrogen is 100nmol/L, then your ratio id 32:1 which is very low. We've found from Saliva Tests we run that the ratio should be 600:1 and over to feel well. You definitely don't want more oestradiol, as this would skew your ratio even more. Besides it's not a menopause oestrogen, oestrone is, and this is never checked. Your prolactin is not too high, and your other tests are all fine too. We do have a page now on Hormone Testing you could look through. Take care Wray

Mar 19, 2012
Spit Test Results
by: Wray

Hi there You're quite right I did, I'm so sorry! Bless you for the kind words too, although I'm still so puzzled by your results, they make no sense at all. Plus the fact that using it again has benefitted you. If you have another test done, please ask for ZRT Labs to do it. When I first discovered progesterone there was no one where I lived who could give me any advice. So I used the typical 20-40mg/day. My symptoms were so bad, and I had no knowledge of Oestrogen Dominance then, that I have no idea if I suffered from this. Maybe because my symptoms were so many and severe that it was masked by them. You can read an account of my journey here. I then read all of Dr Dalton's books, plus had the chance to meet her several times in London. She gave of her time freely when she knew I was trying to help other women. She used amounts up to 2400mg/day for her patients with post natal psychosis, about 800mg/day for those with PND, and 400-800mg/day for those with PMS. In fact she coined the term PMS in 1953, before that it was referred to as the 'vapours'! It was because of her that I increased the amount I was using. It's very interesting, but she never mentioned oestrogen dominance at all, while speaking to her or in her books or papers. It was Dr Lee who coined the term, as his patients got it. I've come to realise that it didn't occur to Dr Dalton's patients because she used such high amounts. It makes progesterone dominant immediately, there's no chance for oestrogen to be stimulated. I try to encourage women to use high amounts initially, and then reduce slowly once they've gone, but it's fixed in everyone's minds to use only 20-40mg/day. It's very difficult to break through this! There's a list of symptoms on the oestrogen dominance page, plus all these here. I've been through a bit of stress recently, plus I stupidly ate too many carbs (bread and half a small potato) which caused me to blow up, so I'm now using about 800mg/day to reduce the oedema and to de-stress! Progesterone is the best diuretic there is, see our page on Traumatic Brain Injury. It reduces the inflammation and oedema which causes the damage. It's given via IV transfusion, over 1200mg/day, interestingly over 70% of the victims are men. Take care Wray

Mar 23, 2012
Insomnia
by: kelz

Hi again Wray, how are you? I hope you dont mind but I have a few more questions for you and really value your advice. So Im the one with severe insomnia and a bunch of other issues, since taking the 200mg of Prog a day over the past month or so my sleep had really improved but again about 3-4 days before my period I got bad insomnia again and also while Ive had it so for at least the last 6-7 nights. Do you know why this could be, Im still taking the prog cream each day, do I need more during this time? Has anyone else you knwo had such bad insomnia like me? The sleep thing just affects me so bad I just dont know why as im not stressed.
I appreciate your suggestions with this. Oh and im going to try tryptophan tonight and maybe inositol as I think I read you suggested this to someone else.
Many many thanks for your time :)

Mar 24, 2012
Insomnia
by: Wray

Hi Kelz I'm so pleased you increased the amount of progesterone, and that it helped the sleep. So many of our symptoms increase the few days prior to bleeding, it's a sure sign our hormones are out of kilter. Migraines, insomnia, seizures, mood swings, asthma, cravings for sweet things, anger, the list is endless! You might like to see this Graph we have. You'll notice how oestrogen also rises during the luteal phase, this is the culprit. So please increase the amount of progesterone the few days before, it should help. Tryptophan and inositol both help, see our page on Natural Antidepressants. You might like to see this page here. Although it's principally on stress which you don't have, it does give a list of nutrients which help sleep. So many have insomnia, and the reasons are so varied! If the biological clock goes out of sync it can cause it, hormones, neurotransmitters, vitamin D, excess sugar, drugs, another endless list! Just a thought, I don't know how many times you travel between NZ and Rarotonga, but it could be sufficient to upset your clock if frequent. You could try melatonin if you suspect this, it's also very good for sleep and does help reset the clock. Take care Wray


May 28, 2012
Sub-lingual vs. cream
by: Terrie

Hi. I am 51 years old and had a complete hysterectomy 6 years ago due to large fibroid tumor on uterus. Initially, they did not give me hormones however, a couple of months later my doctor put me on the vivelle dot patch .05. This helped with the hot flashes. 5 months after this, I woke up one morning so dizzy that I could not walk a straight line with severe ringing and humming in my ears. The ENT said I had meniere's disease. Not sure about that but, I asked him if my hormones could be making me this way and he said possibly. So, I got off the hormones. I tried several times to go back on them and each time after about 3 days lightheadedness started again. A couple of years ago, I started with the bio-identical hormones. Initially, I was the bi-est/ prog. cream with a vaginal cream with est./test. I was still having hot flashes and, the vaginal cream was making my itch terribly. So, they changed me to a bi-est/prog. pill along with test. cream. The hot flashes did go away; however, I still have insomnia, anxiety, moodiness, brain fog, etc. Dissatisfied with those results, in early May, I found another doctor and new pharmacy. The Dr. put me on sub-lingual bi-est 80/20 2mg/0.5ml in the a.m. and prog. is 10% SL with 0.8 ml in the p.m. Initially, I felt my mood improve and felt less grouchy. After about 3 days, the lightheadedness was there again and, I had what I call a "behind the eyeball" headache on the left side with congestion. Don't know if this was really due to sinus issues or, the hormones. Any thoughts on that as it is really driving me crazy. After about day 10 they increased me to 1.0 on the prog. due to the insomnia still being there. I pass out quick but after about 2 hours wake back up and toss and turn the rest of the night. I don't feel as agitated or moody but, I don't feel like the brain fog is gone either. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciate. Thanks

May 29, 2012
Sub-lingual vs. cream
by: Wray

Hi Terrie It's very interesting you were diagnosed with 'Meniere's', oestrogen causes water retention, so undoubtedly it was caused by this. I don't believe any of us needs either HRT or natural oestrogens. We get more than enough from the environment, see Our Stolen Future, and plenty in the food we eat too, see here, and here here. And we certainly don't need testosterone, see here, here, here, here here, here, here, here and here. You are currently getting about 100mg/day progesterone, which falls in the range I recommend of 100-200mg/day. But you are also taking oestrogen too, so it will have to counter that, therefore 100mg/day is not sufficient. Continued below.

May 29, 2012
Sub-lingual vs. cream Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Terrie Fibroids are caused by oxidative stress, often it's just a lack of Progesterone and Vitamin D. They are exacerbated by oestrogen, so why they have given it to you is beyond me. Your vitamin D is probably very low, please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. I suggest you increase the amount of progesterone, and stop taking the oestrogen. Take care Wray


May 30, 2012
progesterone supplementation
by: Robbyn

Hi Wray
Ive been reading a lot of the posts here about using too much progesterone cream (im on a bio identical 6 % 1/4 teaspoon 2 x daily) since ive been using it a lot of my symptoms have stopped (im 39 with severe estrogen dominance - my ratio of estrogen to progesterone was 300 to 1 and I now have endometriosis as well) Ive been on the cream for 13 days and have been doing so well, but tonight out of nowhere I became quite nauseated and wondered if it is potentially related to the cream... Nausea, abdominal pain, diarrhea, anxiety attacks, severe depression were all symptoms prior to starting and I am not sure if my estrogen receptors have been stimulated (it gets worse before it gets better?) or if there might be something else going on. Please advise, Im feeling pretty lost and unnerved
Robbyn

May 30, 2012
progesterone supplementation
by: Wray

Hi Robbyn Oestrogen Dominance does come out of the blue, with a return of old symptoms, sometimes new ones! You are using a good amount of progesterone, works out to about 150mg/day. I generally suggest 100-200mg/day. But it sounds as if you could do with more to get you over this phase, please consider increasing it. I can't tell you how much by, you'll have to judge by symptoms. Although if you have Endometriosis and the pain that goes with it, I find 500mg/day is needed to stop the pain, and reduce the endo. It's caused by oxidative stress, and exacerbated by oestrogen. This is a mitogen causing cells to proliferate, plus it's an excitatory inflammatory hormone, you need to get your levels down. Progesterone will help to reduce it, but you also need high doses of anti-inflammatory nutrients, particularly the amino acids and vitamin D. Please have a vitamin D test done, it's a potent anti-inflammatory as is progesterone. In fact both Progesterone and Vitamin D work together. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Continued below.

May 30, 2012
progesterone supplementation Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Robbyn Oestradiol increases mast cell histamine secretion, and therefore inflammation, which is initiated by substance P. Substance P is a pro-inflammatory, nociceptive neuropeptide. Progesterone and it's metabolites are suppressed by substance P, unless sufficient is used. Substance P is not only a pro-inflammatory neuropeptide, but it causes nausea and vomiting too. The vomiting centre in the brain contains high concentrations of substance P. It coexists with the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate. Substance P increases glutamate activity, so too does oestrogen. It works with substance P causing nausea and stimulating glutamate, which explains the symptoms you have, see here, here, here, here and here. Many natural substances help Anxiety, you might consider taking some. Take care Wray

Jun 07, 2012
Hi Wray
by: Anonymous

Two months ago I asked my doctor for natural progesterone cream, 200mg. She gave me 100mg for days 14-28. I do not feel this is enough so I supplement it with the cream of your suggestion. I also am on 150mg of Zoloft for a marriage separation I am going through.

My questions is: does Zoloft affect estrogen levels? The first month on it was fine but I am declining rapidly in my spirit.

Thank you,
Mary

PS: I also take iodine, D3 6000, and magnesium daily.

Jun 08, 2012
Hi Wray
by: Wray

Hi there Many antidepressants can affect sexual function, including zoloft. There's no evidence it affects oestrogen per se, but they can all cause the very symptoms they are given for. So I think this is the problem you're now confronted with. There are many natural antidepressants, all listed on our Anxiety page, you might consider taking these instead. 100mg/day is the minimum I recommend, so I'm pleased you listened to your body, and not your doctor! I'm delighted you're taking those supps, particularly the vitamin D and magnesium. I've found a combo of Progesterone and Vitamin D have a synergistic action. Take care Wray

Jun 13, 2012
Do not take this without weighing all the costs
by: S

I took Natural progesterone cream for one cycle. I had a partial hysterectomy 7 yrs ago. My hair got thicker and then it got obnoxiously thick. My boobs got huge and then I gained 10#. Yesterday I was at ER for the shortness of breath that is still here from on the water weight and fat storage of this stuff. It's dangerous. Don't let anybody blow rays of sunshine like this site does! I went to many other sites and read numerous accounts of horror stories - some matched mine. I wonder how much it will cost me when I get my bill? The inhaler (which won't help anyway - because it's this stupid hormone) cost me $210 - with insurance! Did I mention the UTI and constant peeing? Also a nasty side effect. I called poison control. So whomever Wray is - don't just discuss all the wonderful side effects. This stuff is dangerous to some of us and you need to be more responsible!

Jun 14, 2012
Do not take this without weighing all the costs
by: Wray

Hi S Two things are evident from your comment. You were advised to use too little, or chose to use too little, which leads to Oestrogen Dominance. And you haven't read this page or any of the other 3000 odd pages on the site. Progesterone has been used safely for over 60 years now, with no adverse side effects. Oestrogen causes water retention, see here, here, here and here. Progesterone on the other hand is such an excellent diuretic over 1200mg/day is now given via IV transfusion to Traumatic Brain Injury victims. Oestrogen is a mitogen stimulating cells to proliferate, including fat cells. Progesterone inhibits mitosis. Oestrogen causes smooth muscle to constrict, hence your shortness of breath, progesterone relaxes it and is vital for respiration, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Continued below.

Jun 14, 2012
Do not take this without weighing all the costs Part 2
by: Wray

Hi S As for UTI's, oestrogen is again to blame, whereas progesterone is protective, see Candida, and here,here, here, here and here. Progesterone is dangerous to no one, if it was no woman could carry a baby to term, we make over 400ng/ml per day in the third trimester. It would not be safe to give to men too, over 70% of the TBI victims are men. The horror stories you've read are all from women who've used too little, I've commented about this on the page Progesterone Misconceptions. As for responsible, I always give studies backing up what I say, it's up to the individual to read them and make their own informed decision. Take care Wray

Jul 12, 2012
Aghhh!!
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,I last visited you page around a year ago and it was a great help.Thankyou.I have been using natural progesterone 20mg twice a day and have been feeling fabulous,with a little extra help from Macca root because libido and vaginal lubrication are still a bit of an issue.Anyway,the spanish summer has come back,and I am back to having hot flashes again...although nowhere near as bad as before.Also I am feeling so dry,skin and "inside".Had bloods done and serum Progestrone is 0,32ng/ml(in november it was 0.62ng/ml)..and estradiolis 6pg/ml.I have started using a tiny amount of estriol gel(Ovestin) vaginally,just half the dose they recommend.It seems to be helping with lubrication but hasn´t done anything for the night sweats and shivers.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Jul 13, 2012
Aghhh!!
by: Wray

Hi there I'm surprised the 40mg/day has helped you. I normally find 100-200mg/day is needed, often more. Certainly for Hot Flushes, which need about 400mg/day or more to stop them. Using the progesterone cream in the vagina does help with inflammation and dryness too. I doubt the oestriol will help the hot flushes, oestrogen drops internal temps, which prompts the body to counteract this. Unfortunately it does this by over reacting and then the body becomes too hot! Progesterone is excellent for the skin, see here. In fact it doesn't matter where it's applied as the kerotinocytes have ample progesterone receptors, even hair follicles absorb it well, see here and here. Whereas oestrogen does nothing for the skin, see here and here. Your P:E2 ratio is 53:1, we've found from Saliva Tests we run that it's best if it's 600:1 and over. Please consider using more progesterone. Take care Wray

Jul 13, 2012
Aghhh!!
by: Anonymous

Thanks for your quick response.I´ll up the progesterone and see what happens.
I meant to ask yesterday,can you recommend a Spanish language webpage regarding progestrone therapy.I live in Spain and am trying to find info for my Spanish friends and there is very little! My gyneacologist looked at me as if I were mad when I told her about natural progesterone!Thanks again,your page is an absolute sanity saver.

Jul 14, 2012
Aghhh!!
by: Wray

Hi there Bless you for the kind words. And yes I can recommend a website in Spanish, this one! In the right hand margin at the bottom is a translate facility, 66 languages are available, including Spanish. I've just translated this page and it does work! I can well believe your gynae looking at you as if you were mad, so few know or even understand what progesterone is. Appalling really, when you realise it's the oldest hormone there is. There's more info on our page Progesterone and Vitamin D. Take care Wray

Sep 06, 2012
Progesterone and high cholesterol
by: Anonymous

I'm 55 and had a hysterectomy one year ago.

As per some of your other postings, I had to go very high dosage with the progesterone to finally get some relief from the hot flashes/night sweats. I'm using 600mg transdermal and 200mg by mouth to help with sleep. I was only having a couple hot flashes in the wee hours of the morning. I had planned to get stable and then start reducing this amount. I have gotten my Vit D up to 90 ng/mL.

My cholesterol has been getting higher and higher for the past 5 years. It is 332. I am not overweight. Diet and exercise have made no difference. Now I have decided to use statins to get the cholesterol down. I know that cholesterol is tied to hormones. Now I am having many more hot flashes and an overall sense of just being hot all the time.

Is the high cholesterol tied to high estrogen sensitivity? Will the estrogen sensitivity drop as the cholesterol drops and I'll eventually be able to drop the level of progesterone? Do I just need to muddle through the hot flashes that seem to be caused by taking the statins?

I'm probably going to be on the statins for awhile until I get my numbers down and figure out other ways to control the cholesterol.

I don't really know what to do with the progesterone treatment now. I really don't want to go any higher.

What would be your suggestion for progesterone therapy while reducing my cholesterol with statins?

Thanks for your wonderful website.

Sincerely,
Anonymous

Sep 08, 2012
Progesterone and high cholesterol
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks for the kind words. You are using a very high amount, as Hot Flushes often respond to 400mg/day. Although there have been some women who need higher amounts, as evidently you do. Your vitamin D level is exceptionally good. Ironically it appears that possibly statins work by increasing vitamin D, see here and here. It's most interesting to me that the statins have adversely affected your hormone levels, I've not heard that before and have no explanation for it. Studies on vitamin D have produced conflicting results on lipid profiles, see here and here. To give only vitamin D in isolation is a bit daft, as it's most important co-factor magnesium is vital, see here, here and here. Vitamin K, boron and zinc are other co-factors needed. Vitamin K2 has been found to reduce osteoporosis, calcification of arteries and cancer. This is an excellent article here. Vitamin K is one of the cofactors for vitamin D ensuring deposition of calcium in bones, and preventing it's deposition in arterial plaque. Excess free calcium in the blood results in calcified arteries and heart disease, see here, here, here, here and here. Continued below.

Sep 08, 2012
Progesterone and high cholesterol Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there Has anyone checked your magnesium level? It's low in soils now, and therefore food, plus people generally eat or drink dairy, which has a high calcium level, but low magnesium. This is pure anecdote, but an acquaintance on statins said once she added magnesium her cholesterol level dropped. You could try adding this to your protocol to see if it helps. If you are low in magnesium you could experience generalised pain when taking it. This occurs whenever magnesium is low and vitamin D is in the normal range. It will be a question of increasing it slowly. Which magnesium to take is always a problem, as so many have a laxative affect. The amino acid chelates are better than most, slow mag might be an option as it's released very slowly over the day. Epson salts in the bath is another option, although you do have to use a large amount to raise levels, see here. These are a few more on magnesium, see here, here and here. And these on magnesium and inflammation, see here here, here, here, here, here and here. Continued below.

Sep 08, 2012
Progesterone and high cholesterol Part 3
by: Wray

Hi there And these on cholesterol in general, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. I'm at a loss on what to tell you about the progesterone. It did help, but now the statins have reduced it's benefits. I don't think you should use more, you are already on a high level. Please read the papers and articles I've given you, you might find something in them which will point you in the right direction. Maybe all you need is the magnesium, or maybe vitamin K, as this prevents a build up of 'bone' in the arteries. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Sep 08, 2012
Progesterone and High Cholesterol
by: Anonymous

Hi,
Thanks for your comments. I have already been taking magnesium for the last couple years. I don't necessarily add extra calcium as it seems to leach out of my body. I am also taking all the other supplements that help with bones to get the calcium to stay put and do what it is supposed to do.

I had read some other forums with comments about experiencing heat and hot flashes with statins, so I was thinking less cholesterol=less progesterone to off-set the estrogen.

I'm not actually a part of the sheeple that believe the medical opinion that high cholesterol is bad for us. But... my plan is to get my numbers closer to the 200 and move forward from there.

I had cancer last year (estrogen dominance) and aggressively work to remove and avoid environmental estrogens around me, in personal care products and foods.

My Vitamin D and progesterone have both been moving up the last year and so has the cholesterol.

There is a theory that anxious people have a hard time processing estrogen out of the body and it can build up causing problems.

The new body heat is not totally unmanageable for now and I will just keep moving forward. Thanks for the links to various articles on the subjects. I will read them all.

Hugs,
Anonymous


Sep 09, 2012
Progesterone and High Cholesterol
by: Wray

Hi there Glad the info helped. And you could be right about the 'less cholesterol=less progesterone to off-set the estrogen', it's something I should look into. Although there haven't been any who have written in on statins with such a problem, so I've not given it any thought before. I must say the fact your cholesterol has risen while on the vitamin D and progesterone has me puzzled, as all the papers indicate the reverse should occur. But there could be other factors involved which are not apparent. Possibly the excess oestrogen you had has played a role. It certainly would with the Cancer you had. Your high vitamin D will certainly help, as low levels are implicated in many cancers. These are excellent videos to watch, see here, here and here. Very pleased you're removing the environmental oestrogens too. You might like to see this excellent site Our Stolen Future for further help. And these papers on phytoestrogens in food, see here, here and here. These papers here and here, on infertility in sheep, show how a high level of phytoestrogens in food can affect the reproductive organs. Interesting you've come across anxious people having a hard time processing oestrogen. This occurs in the liver, anxiety does tend to shut down or slow our systems, so there could be some merit in this. Oestrogen is metabolised in the liver by glucuronic acid, the process is known as glucuronidation. Glucuronidation is one of the major detoxification pathways of the liver. It removes carcinogens, toxins, tumour promoters, the sex hormones ie, the androgens and oestrogens, mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids, aromatic and heterocyclic amines, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, various nitrosamines, drugs, fungi etc. It's then excreted in the bile, but an enzyme in the intestine called beta-glucuronidase reverses the glucuronidation process. It breaks the glucoronide bond between a toxin and glucuronic acid, and releases carcinogens, toxins and excess steroid hormones back into circulation. Continued below.

Sep 09, 2012
Progesterone and High Cholesterol Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there There's evidence beta-glucuronidase activity is increased in breast and prostate cancer. Calcium D-glucarate inhibits beta-glucuronidase, see here, here, here and here. Incidentally this enzyme is produced by undesirable gut bacteria, supplementing with probiotics suppresses the bacteria, and subsequently the beta-glucuronidase. Silymarin from milk thistle also inhibits beta-glucuronidase, plus it helps the liver detox. Hugs to you too, take care Wray


Sep 09, 2012
Progesterone and High Cholesterol
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
It is a mystery that that the increased Vit D and Progesterone and not managed the high cholesterol issue. I was expecting good numbers from my bloodwork a couple weeks ago and was very surprised to see that the cholesterol continues to go upward.

My goal is to use the statins for a very short period of time to get my number closer to 200. I am leaning towards a more vegetarian diet to see if that makes a difference (organic where possible to avoid environmental estrogens)and then use supplements to support my body and lower cholesterol.

The doctors always try to prescribe calcium carbonate and it seems to leech out of my body. I will try the calcium d-glucarate and see if there are better results. Especially, if it helps to get rid of toxins in the body.

You have given me some new information to consider. I am working to lower stress / anxiety as well as researching and using supplements to release toxins from my body. I am familiar with different ways to support the liver and will continue.

I have read of elevated risks with blood sugars using statins also. Even though I do not have diabetes, I sure don't want to go there either because of the statins. I am monitoring and supporting that issue very carefully.

It is hard work getting older and maintaining the delicate balance in our bodies. I would love to find the one supplement that is the cure all. LOL.

Thanks,
Anonymous

Sep 10, 2012
Progesterone and High Cholesterol
by: Wray

Hi there Yes it is a mystery, but your approach to it all is so good. The last thing we need is extra calcium, and yet doctors are fixated on it. Nothing could be more dangerous too, as they've found it causes heart disease! As those papers I've given you say. Plus an excess of calcium in ratio to magnesium also causes depression. It's amazing how long the latest research takes to filter down to those that dish out drugs. Vitamin D is a prime example, fixed in people's minds it's good only for bones. That's beginning to appear one of it's minor roles, if looking at all the research coming out now. Progesterone too, good for gestation and nothing more. I was so fascinated by the synergy between the two, I did a page on them, see Progesterone and Vitamin D. The calcium d-glucarate is only 12.3-12.74% calcium, so not very high. Unlike the carbonate which has 40.0434 % calcium. There are a number of nutrients which help Anxiety, they're listed on the page. Ah yes one supplement to fix us all, if we only had one choice I'd chose vitamin D. Take care Wray

Sep 29, 2012
Perimenopause stinks!
by: Nikki

Hi! I am having one of those long lasting periods that occasionally come because I am in perimenopause. I am 49 and have been through peri for the last 3-4 yrs. this is the second time in 2 yrs that I have had a prolonged period. Last time it lasted 3 weeks. This time it is two weeks and no sign of letting up. It is NOT extremely heavy. Flow changes from light to medium throughout the day. Some slight cramping every so often.

Here is my question. Will progesterone cream help stop the bleeding and help regulate my cycle? How should I use it? Can I start using it while I am still bleeding? Please help! The doctor wants to put me on pills. No way, no how!

Thank you!

Oct 01, 2012
Perimenopause stinks!
by: Wray

Hi Nikki I agree with your sentiments! Yes progesterone can help, but it also needs help too in doing so. I've found 400mg/day or more are needed. Plus at least 2000mg/day of the amino acid NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) and a minimum of 5000ius per day of vitamin D. It's best to have a test done to find your level, then you will know how much to take. A lack of vitamin D also reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. You are now in the last stages of Peri-menopause, unfortunately no amount of progesterone will regulate it again. The ovaries are shutting down and have a mind of their own! Progesterone is dropping to it's lowest level as anovulation becomes more and more frequent. But oestrogen and testosterone are still being secreted. The oestrogen causes the uterine lining to build up, but low progesterone means the MMPs, which cause it to break down, are not being suppressed. We have more info on our Menstruation page. NAC inhibits the MMPs too, hence it's usefulness, it's also a potent antioxidant/anti-inflammatory. Vitamin D is also a potent antioxidant/anti-inflammatory. One woman was using large amounts of progesterone, NAC and a few other supplements. But it wasn't until she increased her vitamin D to 210,000 IU/day that the bleeding reduced to slight spotting, see the entry for the Sep 26 on this page here. These are other pages which might interest you here and here. You can start using the progesterone immediately, but please use sufficient, plus the NAC and vitamin D too. Take care Wray

Dec 05, 2012
Underdeveloped Breasts
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray, can progesterone cream be used to stimulate the development of underdeveloped breasts, many many years after puberty due to hormonal imbalance? If so, how much needs to be used and where should it be applied? Thank you.

Dec 06, 2012
Underdeveloped Breasts
by: Wray

Hi there Unfortunately not, well certainly not in my experience. Oestrogen initiates breast development in puberty, as it does with our fatty layer, the growth of the ovaries, uterus and it's lining too. Oestrogen gives us our female shape, but too much and we go out of shape! Too much and the breasts become too large, in some cases leading to gigantomastia, see here. Too much in men and it leads to Man Boobs. Fibrocystic breasts can develop too, see Breast Cysts. Progesterone inhibits mitosis and causes whatever cells that have been encouraged to multiply by oestrogen, to stop and differentiate. So it is involved in breast development, but only in this sense, not in making them grow larger. Oestrogen is an excitatory, inflammatory hormone, so can also cause Breast Tenderness too. Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2013
Having some trouble
by: Melbal

Hi
I just started using a progesterone cream 6 days ago and started with 40 mg per day. For the first three days I was so tired and listless and depressed. My breasts got huge and I felt like I was going to get my period. I read your website and decided to increase it to 60mg twice a day three days ago.My breasts are still huge, I am starving and feel ten pounds heavier(although the scale says five). I am 50 and have very heavy irregular periods, crazy PMS, hair loss and hot flashes. Since using the cream I have had no hot flashe, sleep better and feel slightly more alert(since the increase) but still low energy. Should I stay at this dose for a while longer. I feel like I did when I was first pregnant have back aches and cramping. I had a little spotting but none since the increase. I don't know if I can afford much more of an increase.
Btw, i am hypothyroid and take synthroid every day. Thank you

Jan 19, 2013
Having some trouble
by: Wray

Hi Melbal I'm pleased you increased the progesterone, as 40mg/day would not have helped you with those symptoms. And would have made you worse. It doesn't raise levels to that found in the luteal phase. More about this on our Progesterone Misconceptions page. It's interesting you should liken your symptoms to those of becoming pregnant. The cause is the same, the rise in progesterone, stimulating oestrogen, until it rises high enough for the symptoms to stop. I'm amazed the Hot Flushes went, as I've found 400mg/day and over are usually needed. This amount is certainly needed to stop heavy bleeding, although it won't stop the irregular periods. These are normal for Peri-menopause which you are now in, probably the last stages before Menopause. As we go through P-M we get with increasing frequency, anovulatory cycles where we don't make any progesterone. During those months we therefore have unopposed testosterone and oestrogen. In fact the menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, see here. The androgens, particular testosterone, can cause an increase in visceral fat, see here and here. Plus it can cause severe PMS symptoms. If bound to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) testosterone becomes inactive, progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone and the PMS. Oestrogen causes our blood glucose to destabilise, progesterone stabilises it, see here. Hence your feeling of starving. The immediate weight gain is due to oestrogen, it causes water retention. Luckily progesterone is an excellent diuretic, for more info see our page on Traumatic Brain Injury. Oestrogen can also cause severe PMS too, it's an excitatory, inflammatory hormone. Continued below

Jan 19, 2013
Having some trouble Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Melbal Oestrogen stimulates glutamate, our most excitatory neurotransmitter, see here. It increases free radicals, plus destroying beta-endorphin neurons in the brain, these produce endorphins which promote a feeling of well being and relaxation. Beta-endorphins also appear to boost the immune system, protecting against cancer, see here. This paper says "Although it is widely accepted that exposure to estradiol throughout life contributes to reproductive aging.... Recent evidence ..... of chronic estradiol-mediated accelerated reproductive senescence now suggests such a hypothesis. It has been shown that chronic estradiol exposure results in the destruction of greater than 60% of all beta-endorphin neurons in the arcuate nucleus .....This loss of opioid neurons is prevented by treatment with antioxidants indicating that it results from estradiol-induced formation of free radicals", see here. Whereas progesterone protects against glutamate toxicity, it also increases BDNF (brain-derived neuroptrophic factor) in itself protective, see here and here. It also protects against calcium induced excitotoxicity, see here. High glutamate, calcium excitotoxicity, and the destruction of beta-endorphins could account for the PMS symptoms oestrogen can cause. Both Hair Loss and Breast Tenderness are explained on these pages. I'm going to do something I don't normally do, please consider using our cream. Judging by the 40mg/day you first used, you're probably using a cream which is only 1.6% progesterone. Natpro is double this strength, and often much cheaper too. There's more info on this page here. Continued below

Jan 19, 2013
Having some trouble Part 3
by: Wray

Hi Melbal Please have a vitamin D test done, a lack reduces the benefits of progesterone. Besides which, it's the most important nutrient, needed by every cell to function normally. In fact there's evidence to suggest a lack causes hypothyroidism, see here, here, here and here. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Jan 19, 2013
Thank you for your response
by: Melbal

Thank you for your response. Are you suggesting I increase to 400 daily? I am currently using progest. I would be happy to purchase yours but I wanted you to know what I was using.
Also, my hypothyroid is due to radiation to my thyroid because I am positive for graves disease and had benign modules so the thyroid was irradiated and now requires the synthroid. Will the vitamin D help with that? I will test for vitamin D and have started taking a supplement but not nearly as much as you suggested.i feel pretty good except for the cramping end backache. If I stay at this dose will it eventually pay off and should I do it every day except when I get my period or just two weeks prior...(it's hard to judge though since its so irregular)
Thanks

Jan 23, 2013
Thank you for your response
by: Wray

Hi Melbal The decision to increase is yours, but if you have heavy bleeding, I've found 400mg/day is needed to stop it. You might find less will do, but I prefer to err on the high side, as too little only makes matters worse. I have found in many cases, that 2000mg/day NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), 2000mg/day taurine and at least 5000iu per day vitamin D are essential too. The NAC inhibits the MMPs which break down the lining, there's more info on our Menstruation page. Taurine is low in dysfunctional uterine bleeding, see here. And vitamin D prevents cells proliferating. It's easy enough to reduce slowly once symptoms abate. You could try less to see if it works, it might do if you take the nutrients I mention. If you do switch creams, please be aware Progest is half the strength of Natpro, i.e. 16mg/ml of cream as opposed to 33.3mg/ml of cream. So depending on what amount you chose reduce the cream by half. I'm not sure if the vitamin D will help the irradiated thyroid, but it is so vital for the normal functioning of all cells, it should help in other areas. A pity they didn't know about vitamin D before giving you the irradiation, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. I forgot to tell you, although I think it is on the peri-menopause page, that it's pointless trying to follow a cycle when it's so irregular. So I suggest you use it daily through any bleeding. Take care Wray

Jan 28, 2013
Nervous breakdown
by: Danille

Hi Wray, I am 42 and about two months ago, I had what seemed to be a nervous breakdown. I had anxiety that laster 4 days. My mom helped me to figure out it was probably low progesterone. I stared using 450 usp progesterone 1/2 teaspoon a few times a day. Now the anxiety is better but not gone and I have developed waking in the middle of the night with obsessive thoughts. Any ideas?

Jan 28, 2013
Confused again!
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
I had been great using progesterone,well apart from not coping well with last summer´s high temperatures! I hadn´t had a period in 9 months but then after a long haul flight from UK to New Zealand for the birth of my first grandchild all hell broke lose on the hormone front! I had a scarily heavy bleed for 2 days then a normal period for another 5 days but since then I haven´t stopped bleeding.The loss is only very light but I also have discomfort,like period cramps nearly all the time.I was blessed to be with my daughter when she gave birth.Could this have sent my hormones crazy.Also I started the cream again early,normally I take a 6 day break. to try to stop the heavy bleeding,is this OK? I am concerned that the fibroids I have are growing instead of shrinking and causing the problem.I have am appointment with my gynea this week.
I have been in perimenopause/menopause for about 18 months and am 52.
Many Thanks

Jan 29, 2013
Nervous breakdown
by: Wray

Hi Danille It could well have been caused by low progesterone, low blood glucose can have the same affect too. These two are interlinked anyway. Oestrogen destabilises blood glucose, progesterone doesn't, see here. 450g is presumably the amount in the container? And it's probably about 16mg/ml or 20mg/1/4 tsp? If you're using 1/2tsp a few times a day, I'm guessing you're getting about 120mg/day progesterone? I don't think you're using enough progesterone, not for Anxiety. There are nutrients listed on this page which also help. I feel you could do with the inositol, it gets rid of obsessive thoughts, and helps sleep, see here, here, here and here. Please consider increasing the progesterone to 200mg/day, take the inositol too. Glutamine helps blood glucose too, consider that. And please have a vitamin D test done, too low a level affects mood, blood glucose and progesterone badly. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Jan 29, 2013
Confused again!
by: Wray

Hi there It's so interesting this flying business, so many find their period starts after the flight. Flying is hugely stressful, stress drops progesterone levels, simple as that. These are two pages here and here you might like to read on it, very long! Although you hadn't had a period in 9 months, there would be enough oestrogen to slowly build the lining. Normally this would be absorbed back into the body, but the stress caused your progesterone to drop sharply, causing it to shed. Also so interesting to me is the fact you think it could also be linked to the birth of your grandchild. I've had correspondence with a doula, (someone who helps at childbirth and after), she tells me if she is within 5 days of her period and she assists at a birth her period will come after it. She also tells me this occurs to other doula friends of hers. I'm not sure why you're bothering with a break, when you haven't had any periods for 9 months? I haven't for 16 years now, I couldn't be bothered! I haven't found the need to either. I have done a page on all the Progesterone Misconceptions you could look through. I don't know how much progesterone you're using, but if you've been told to take a break, then it's probably very little. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. I've found with any heavy bleeding generally 400mg/day is needed to stop it. If this doesn't please take at least 2000mg/day NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), 2000mg/day taurine and at least 5000iu per day vitamin D. The NAC inhibits the MMPs which cause the lining to break down, more info on our Menstruation page, taurine is low in dysfunctional uterine bleeding, see here. And the vitamin D stops cells proliferating and it's a potent anti-inflammatory. If you had fibroids, which are caused by oxidative stress, your vitamin D is probably very low. Please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. Continued below

Jan 29, 2013
Confused again! part 2
by: Wray

Hi there The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. It could be a lack of vitamin D causes fibroids, taking it certainly makes them shrink, see here, here, here, here and here. Too little progesterone will make fibroids grow, as it stimulates oestrogen. This hormone causes cells to proliferate. Take care Wray


Jan 30, 2013
how to use progestrone cream
by: Nervous Breakdown

Hi Wray, I have been using emrita progest now for 3 weeks. My hot flashes are gone. I am not sleeping well at night and anxiety is high. I messaged you and you did advise more progestrone cream 200 mg. My question now is I have been using progestrone cream every day. And I have been using it during my period, to help with anxiety symptoms. Should I stop and only use day 14 to 28?

Jan 31, 2013
how to use progestrone cream
by: Wray

Hi Danille Have you increased the progesterone to 200mg/day? Or are you still using the low amount? If you have increased it and still have Anxiety then you're not using enough. Please increase to 300mg/day. And consider taking those nutrients listed on the anxiety page too. It will be an uphill battle for progesterone alone. Vitamin D is also essential. Use the progesterone daily, through any bleeding, for 2-3 months, or until stable. Then you can begin following your cycle again. If you stop now and follow it you will have adverse side effects. Is your cycle 28 days? If not then don't start on day 14, it should be used from ovulation. We have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Jan 31, 2013
anxiety
by: nervous breakdown

Hi Wray! I have increased the progestrone to 200 mg a day and the anxiety is getting better. I slept better last night. I only had a period for 2 1/2 days. I am guessing that is okay. I am going to buy some vitamin d tommorow. Thank you so much for your help. Oh and

Feb 02, 2013
anxiety
by: Wray

Hi Danille I'm delighted to hear this. Please make sure you take enough vitamin D, it's best if taken with magnesium too, this also helps anxiety, it's very calming. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Mar 03, 2013
anxiety
by: nervous breakdown

Hi Wray. Me again. As I stated before my anxiety is alot better, now I have new symptoms, first off all my last period was only one day. Now I have horrible heart palpitations. I have been using progestrone cream for two months now. Is it just going to take more time? Also I am 42, is this common for my age?

Mar 05, 2013
anxiety
by: Wray

Hi Danille Progesterone can upset the cycle when first using it, but it does settle down. It's common for any age. The heart palpitations are caused by oestrogen. It causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia, Torsades de Pointes and sudden death. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. This is why more women get these problems than men, they have very little oestrogen, whereas we have a great deal more. I suggest you increase further and they should go. And yes is does take time! Take care Wray

Mar 10, 2013
too much or to little?
by: Susan

I have a history of mild estrogen dominance as shown on saliva tests--nothing too extreme but I have taken a mild dose of natural progesterone cream (10mg per day on the skin). Each time I have started this therapy, I have done well for the first couple of months but around the 3rd to 5th month I get extremely heavy periods that last for weeks at a time. I have to go off the cream altogether until this resolves. I really like the natural cream and it has helped my energy and foggy thinking tremendously, but 3 week long periods are the pits! Any suggestions? I am 48, have 5 kids and have had no symptoms of menopause that i am aware of (my mom didn't go through menopause until her late 50's).

Mar 12, 2013
sky high saliva progesterone results
by: michelle

I am a confused 48 yo healthy woman -post partial hysterectomy 4 yrs ago due to 10cm fibroids and heavy bleeding, 2 years ago given progest cream 40mg daily days 18-30th of the month due to saliva level of 20(progesterone)- other symptoms included severe insomnia(15ys), fibrocystic breast disease- mood swings and fatigue and now weight gain and constipation which have never been an issue. I exercise 4-5 days a week, have a very healthy diet and am at a low normal weight. I had my salivary hormone retested and the progesterone came back at 24,100. My new physician told me not to use transdermal progesterone but switched me to oral (200mg) and also put me on DHEA, Pregnenolone and estrogen patch- within 2 days I was a nut case- acne- angry- horrific insomnia and have now stopped everything. I was never very consistent with my transdermal progesterone so I am surprised at the high number- I would like to restart it but am not sure if I should do so. I am a nurse and my husband is a physician and we both so confused!
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Mar 15, 2013
too much or to little?
by: Wray

Hi Susan You are using such a tiny amount of progesterone, I'm surprised you haven't felt the adverse mood affects of Oestrogen Dominance. Although the heavy bleeding is an indication the progesterone has been stimulating the oestrogen. Oestrogen is the only hormone that can cause the lining of the uterus to build up. There's more info on our Menstruation page. Progesterone does stop heavy bleeding, but 400mg/day is needed to do so. Often NAC, taurine, vitamin D and bioflavonoids are needed too. Peri-menopause starts anywhere from 5 to 10 years before Menopause, so it would appear you are about 4-5 years off peri-M. There's more info on our page on How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray


Mar 16, 2013
sky high saliva progesterone results
by: Wray

Hi Michelle Pity about the hyst, as progesterone stops heavy bleeding and helps shrink fibroids, although 400mg/day is needed for this. The reason being it suppresses oestrogen which exacerbates them. And there is little reason to tell you to use progesterone on days 18-30 as you have no cycle now, it should be used daily. 40mg/day is far too low for severe symptoms, many women make this during their luteal phase. If it was sufficient none of us would have bad symptoms. The worse they are the more is needed to overcome them. I feel you would need from 200-400mg/day with your current symptoms. We do have a page on Breast Cysts, often caused by a lack of iodine. Fibroids are caused by oxidative stress, which you still have, taking out the uterus doesn't cure the problem! Please have a vitamin D test done, it's evident you have a very low level. There's reason to believe a lack of vitamin D causes fibroids, it certainly shrinks them if enough is taken, and levels are high, see here, here, here, here and here. A lack of vitamin D causes insomnia, see here and here. Progesterone also helps sleep, see here,