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Can I use too much progesterone cream?

by Vicki
(Evansville, IN)

Can I use too much progesterone cream?

I am feeling great after using your cream for 1.5 months, I have been using it twice a day, a couple of squirts (I don't know exactly how much).

Can I use too much? If so, what are the symptoms to watch for?

Comments for
Can I use too much progesterone cream?

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Jun 24, 2008
 Can I use to much progesterone cream?
by: Tania

Hi Wray

I dont know where to read your reply to people, such as the one I'm writing as above question.

Where do I go if I want to read what your reply to such questions is?

Please let me know, because it is interesting what people ask you, so we would like to see what you reply.
Jul 01, 2008
 Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

Hi Vicki. So pleased you're feeling great! It's very difficult to use too much progesterone when in a cream form. Dr Dalton would give her patients with post natal psychosis 2400mg/day via injections and suppositories, which is about one and a quarter tubes of Natpro per day!

Admittedly they needed it, whereas most people don't need anywhere near that amount. The only symptom of overdose I have been able to find is one of euphoria! Joking apart, sleepiness is another symptom.

The successful studies done with progesterone used between 100-200mg/day, some going as high as 300-600mg/day, so you can safely assume you will not overdose using Natpro. Incidentally the tube would last you 3.3 days if you used 600mg/day. Take care, Wray
Jul 01, 2008
 Answer to Tania
by: Wray

Hi Tania. Please bookmark the page where the contribution was made. Just like the home page, as people make contributions links will be listed on that page and you can click through on
them to follow the comments. Hope this makes sense! Take care Wray
Jul 15, 2008
 Too much progesterone cream
by: Alice

You can actually have too much progesterone cream. What you have got to remember is that estrogen and progesterone should be kept in balance. The best way to do this is to test your hormones, saliva is the best way of testing these hormones.

I don't know why you are taking progesterone cream - menopause, thyroid problems, PCOS? - but it would probably be worth getting tested - it isn't overly expensive to do, but for those who supplement, I would recommend it!

Symptoms of progesterone overdose could include fatigue, headache, dizziness, bloating, cramping, diarrhoea, nausea, back pain, irritability, breast pain, viral infection, coughing...

Transdermal (through the skin) cream should be applied at about 15-30 mg twice a day. Doctors would say differently as they are used to oral dosing approaches - 90% of what is taken is consumed by the liver.

Wray - were the studies you mentioned with transdermal progesterone supplementation or oral/suppositories? As these latter levels will be much higher than is needed for transdermal.
Hope this is useful :)
Dec 05, 2008
 Natpro
by: Anonymous

Hi there, I have been through 11 months of constant nausea I have been tested for everything, I have also been applying Natpro for the same amount of time.

I have basically ruled out everything and yesterday came to the conclusion maybe it is the Natpro. I checked my diary to find I started applying it around the same time as I started getting the nausea. My mother also said do you feel like you have morning sickness and yes it is exactly the same as I had it, all day and night, so got me thinking, any help would be appreciated.

I have never done a saliva test and was on the cream for fibroids, so maybe even though I am estrogen dominant, I also have enough progesterone, what are your thoughts, any help appreciated. Many thanks, Jacquie
Dec 08, 2008
 Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

Hi Jaquie. I don't know how much cream you're using, so it's difficult to advise.

When first starting progesterone symptoms of oestrogen excess can be experienced, these and more, are all early pregnancy symptoms, including the nausea. If a woman does have nausea in pregnancy a dose of 10ml/day is needed to stop it. This is ±330mg progesterone per day. So if you still have nausea after using it for so long I can only assume you're not using enough.

Alice has some good points to make but the symptoms she mentions are all oestrogen dominance. Although interestingly diarrhoea can be a symptom. Progesterone is a remarkable diuretic, so any excess water is excreted, hence the diarrhoea.

There are hundreds of studies done on progesterone, injections, IV transfusions, suppositories, transdermal creams, oral, gels, sublingual drops have all been studied. The creams have been slammed in the past, but when looking at the dose in these studies, they have all been too low to have any affect. A dose of 20mg/day, which is the average amount women normally make during a monthly cycle, will not have any effect if there is a problem. Oral does have to be high to overcome the destruction in the gut and metabolism by the liver. Do hope this helps, take care Wray
Jan 27, 2009
 Using too much progesterone cream
by: Maria

I have been using progesterone for two months now and feel well. Just one concern - my boobs have got bigger and I have put on weight on my bum, hips and thighs.

I am now wondering if I am using too much. I have not had a period for two years so I guess I am over the menopause.
What do you think?

Maria
Feb 02, 2009
 Too much progesterone
by: Anonymous

I used to use the cream but wondered if I was using too much or too little.

So I went to an Optimal Health Dr. and had the saliva and blood tests done. Although we haven't gone over them I did find out that he did not test me for estrogen because my periods are normal. I just feel fatigued and felt my hormones are off because of not sleeping well and other symptoms.

Well he gave me 35 mg of progererone pills and after about 10-12 days I started getting breast pain, breast swelling and heart palpitations along with more fatigue and my depression remained.

I've been reading on here that there are no symptoms, so I thought I would share what mine are.

I called the Doctor and he told me to stop the pills immediately and that those were the symptoms of too much progesterone. So now I'm back to square one.
Feb 03, 2009
 Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

The symptoms you experienced were those of oestrogen dominance. It's not the progesterone directly causing it, but too much oestrogen.

Initially progesterone therapy will make the body more sensitive to the oestrogen present. This is because progesterone activates the oestrogen receptors so making oestrogen the dominant hormone, making many women feel worse.

Progesterone gradually becomes the dominant hormone and symptoms begin to ease. Some women never experience estrogen dominance, in others it can take several days, whilst in others it can last for three or more months.

Much depends on the amount of excess oestrogen that is present.
Men never experience oestrogen dominance when first using progesterone. Conversely supplemental oestrogen can initially make us feel better.

The reason for this is oestrogen activates the progesterone receptors so making progesterone the dominant hormone, but it wears off as oestrogen becomes the dominant hormone.

This is one of the reasons so many women keep changing their HRT script. There are some women who do not suffer any adverse affects, but the risks of using HRT or the contraceptive pill for any length of time are not worth it. Take care Wray
Feb 12, 2009
 Hair Loss
by: Anonymous

I began using transdermal progesterone cream 1/4tsp daily after reading Dr. Lee's book. He suggested low progesterone may be the cause of hair loss. Has anyone experienced hair loss during menopause?

I began losing my hair at the onset of menopause, late 40's. I am now 54. I have been using the cream for about 2 months now. No improvement on the hair loss yet. My thyroid is normal.
Feb 15, 2009
 Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

I don't know the strength of the cream you're using, but if it's a low dose one, ie, 900mg/60g container, then 1/4tsp is inadequate.

Excess oestrogen is converted to androgens, it's the androgens causing the hair loss. This occurs particularly during peri-menopause/menopause when progesterone levels are low, so there is nothing to suppress the oestrogen.

To prevent hair loss you need at least 100mg/day of progesterone. If other symptoms are severe 200mg/day would be advisable. Once the problem has resolved, the dose can be gradually reduced until the optimum is reached. Take care Wray
Feb 15, 2009
 Re: Hair loss
by: Mary Ann

Thank you very much for your suggestion of using 100mg progesterone cream to help with hair loss. I have been using Emerita Progest in individual packets. Each packet contains 1/4tsp(20mg) and I have only been using 20mg daily.

I should increase it to 2 pktsxAM and 3 pktsxPM to equal 100mg. My doctor prescribed progesterone 100mg capsules because she is more familiar with the caps vs the cream. However, from what I have read, transdermal is more effective than the capsules. What is your opinion on the cream vs capsules? Should I take the 100mg capsules as you suggest is the strength I need or continue the transdermal cream?
Feb 18, 2009
 Can I use too much progesterone cream?
by: Wray

Hi Mary Ann. I think you'll find the higher dose should help. You might find it quite costly in packet form though! It's easy enough to reduce the dose once symptoms have gone. And you are right, transdermal is a better delivery system than oral progesterone. Much of it is destroyed as it passes through the gut and liver, which also has to metabolise it, thus putting an unnecessary strain on the liver.

You'll notice in one of the papers below, that the oral dose in the study was 300mg/day as opposed to the 90mg vaginal progesterone. Although the vaginal route was slightly better in all counts, the outcome in the study was not significantly different, but the dose certainly was! The big advantage to the cream is it can be used anywhere, including the vagina, pessaries as used in the study or oral progesterone can only be used via one route. Take care Wray

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/10/2085

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713671349~db
=all

http://www.menopausejournal.com/pt/re/menopause/abstract.000421
92-200512020-
00019.htm;jsessionid=G9vQGJ2FjtWkN4jXHSTKWdhfsgHhvxNMQ42LYW
nHvhH1rXz7HjTG!-1465501618!-949856144!8091!-1
Aug 29, 2009
 Too much progesterone
by: Anonymous

I have been taking 150ml of progesterone cream everyday and I feel awful. I am weak, tired, out of sorts and my breasts hurt and are swollen. I also have terrible heartburn. I am going to reduce the amount as I feel awful.
Sep 04, 2009
 Too much progestorone converted to Androgens
by: Rana

I am a post menapousal woman (60 years old). My doctor recently tested my blood estradiol and testosterone. My estradiol is 26 pg/ml and my testosterone is 52 ng/dl. He recommended that I get a dose of estrogen 2.25 and progesterone 35 combination (compounded cream). He thinks I can stay young at this dose. He did not order a blood test for progesterone saying that blood test for progesterone is difficult to do.

I have a concern to take progesterone without a test thinking that my testosterone level is pretty high already and additional progesterone can even make the testosterone go higher. Can this happen? Do I have a legitamate concern Wray? What do you think? On a side note I compared the price for the compounded progesterone cream with Natpro, your cream appears to be much more affordable.
Sep 09, 2009
 Too much progestorone converted to Androgens
by: Wray

Hi Rana. Blood tests are generally not as accurate as saliva tests, so I never recommend them. I actually don't bother with tests, but prefer to go by symptoms. Tests only tell the level of hormone in the system, not how we're feeling! I would avoid the extra oestrogen too, at 60 you are still making some in your fat cells, but not enough progesterone to counter it, particularly if you have adverse symptoms. The progesterone will have no beneficial effect if it has to compete with oestrogen, and if the '35' means the dose you've been given, it will have no effect on you at all. It really needs to be between 100-200mg/day to have any, this is the level most successful studies used. And progesterone suppresses excess testosterone, so don't be concerned it will convert. You might like to read some research papers to get an idea of doses used, please click on this link.

Thanks for your kind words! We do try to keep the price as low as possible, and the cream as natural as possible. Take care.
Nov 12, 2009
 Hair loss
by: danita

I just wanted to let people know what happened to do with my hair loss. I'm in perimenopause and my progesterone level was so low it would barely register. I started taking 60 mg a day and its still low so I'm taking 100mg a day till it gets in the norms. I also started taking Biotin for my hair because it was coming out so bad and it felt very coarse like it would break in half. I can honestly say low progesterone will cause extreme hair loss but with adjustments and a little help from biotin your hair will start growing back or at least mine is. Hope everyone well.
Dec 28, 2009
 Absolutely
by: Sarah

Speaking from someone who is moderately obsessed with natural hormone replacement, you can absolutely use too much progesterone. When I first began using the cream I was using almost ten times as much as I should have and I literally gained ten pounds in ten days and my breasts got huge and swollen. Since I researched and experimented with the correct dosage, I have discovered that less is more and patience is a virtue. You cannot over stimulate your body with a natural hormone you need to slowly introduce it to your body. It may take six months it may take a year, but regular saliva testing and symptom reviews should get you back on track. Hope this helps.
Dec 29, 2009
 Hair Loss
by: Wray

Hi Danita. You are right, low progesterone is implicated in hair loss. If progesterone is low there is generally excess oestrogen, which is converted into androgens. It's the androgens which cause the loss. I would suggest you also take 2000mg/day of the B vitamin inositol, often called the anti-alopecia vitamin, plus 2000mg/day of N-acetyl cysteine. The hair, nails and skin comprise up to 14% cysteine, supplementing with this makes them all healthy and strong. Take care Wray
Jan 14, 2010
 Count me in TOO much Progesterone Cream
by: Donna

I felt great in the beginning and even had some euphoria. Had heart palpitations, blood pressure went up some, modest weight gain, and this last time, my breasts were very painful, hard and extremely swollen. I gained weight all over, had constipation, fatigue and such.

I talked to my pharmacist and he suggested making the dose 40 mg day 14 to 26. Not sure what to make of this.

Is this just something that I will have to live through while my hormones get normalized or am I really getting too much?

Feb 24, 2010
 Acne - Rosacea
by: Anonymous

Hello All, it is extremely interesting to read all of your comments. I would be grateful for help here, as I'm at wit's end.

I am late forties, and in 2006 had severe symptoms of endometriosis. I visited a herbalist and took lots of supplements, I had some success but this was short lived. To cut a long story short, I stopped taking all herbs and supplements as I felt that my liver was possibly congested (too many supplements).

In the past 3 cycles/months I started to apply progesterone cream from day's 12-14 until days 26. However my acne rosacea has returned, my face is covered. Also stomach bloated, and symptoms of IBS. Also appetite has increased. However, I do feel more positive, foggy thinking is going, not sure about hair loss, calmed down a bit.

Does anyone feel that the rosacea is really oestrogen increasing until a balance occurs. Or am I just unlucky. Please help. Kind regards, Fi
Mar 03, 2010
 Acne - Rosacea
by: Wray

Hi Fi. Endo is a difficult problem to treat, it's due to excess oestrogen, please see this web page.

Normally an aromatase inhibitor is given to suppress the oestrogen, but high dose progesterone can help too. I'm currently helping a girl in China who is using 200mg/day and she tells me her pain has gone. The adverse symptoms you are experiencing are caused by excess oestrogen, this can happen when first using progesterone, please see this web page.

You don't mention how much you're using, but it sounds a low dose if the symptoms are persisting after 3 months. I have no idea if the rosacea is exacerbated by oestrogen, but it wouldn't surprise to if it did. Oestrogen is an excitatory hormone, and can cause inflammation, higher levels than normal are found in inflammatory diseases like endo, RA, lupus, fibroids etc. You could try a small amount on a tiny area of your face and see if it helps. I would also suggest you have a vitamin D test done, many skin problems are due to a lack of vitamin D. For instance acne responds to vitamin D. Please see this web site for more info. Take care, Wray
Mar 08, 2010
 Acne and progesterone cream
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray, many thanks for taking the time to reply. I applied only a very small amount of the cream, however the cysts on my face were horrendous. I will not bore with further details. I have never suffered from acne so severe. It is such a complicated issue re oestrogen dominance. My gut feeling is that my thyroid is affected in some way, and judging by the way that some of my symptoms improved with prog. cream, I think oestrogen may well be the culprit.

I do need to go and have some blood tests done. I have just started taking a low does of vitamin B complex, also D3. I have also cut out alchohol, started drinking liquorice tea for adrenals (I think there maybe a problem there). So trying very hard.

I must admit that the progesterone cream did help with hair loss, just a shame about the acne. Hopefully in a couple of months time, I may just try and return to it. I noticed since I stopped taking cream, hair loss has been awful, quite depressing. Thanks again for your reply. A very helpful web site. Kind Regards, Fi.
Mar 10, 2010
 Acne and progesterone cream
by: Wray

Fi I'm now confused! As previously you mentioned you have rosacea, but now you mention acne (acne vulgaris), very different conditions. If it is acne then please have a look at this web page. The progesterone will make it worse initially as it stimulates oestrogen, this in turn upsets blood glucose and can lead to insulin resistance. IR has been observed in people with acne. Hormone balance is so complicated! I wish it were simpler, but it isn't. Acne is caused by high insulin levels, this in turn stimulates androgen and IGF-1 production, both of which stimulate the sebaceous glands in the skin.

It's essential to avoid all starchy carbs, to keep blood glucose stable, to lower androgen production. Progesterone will help to stabilise blood glucose and suppress the androgens, but it takes time. Please consider taking 100mg zinc per day for 1-3 months, often a lack of zinc exacerbates acne. This is a high dose, but safe if used for 1-3 months, reduce slowly to 15mg/day if you find it helping. High androgens also cause hair loss, which is why it's back now you've stopped using progesterone. The B vitamin inositol helps with hair loss, it's often called the anti-alopecia vitamin, please consider taking 4000mg/day. Interestingly inositol can reverse insulin resistance, cycles within cycles! You might like to read about insulin resistance.

Thanks for the kind words about the site! Take care, Wray
Mar 11, 2010
 Progesterone
by: Kat

I am 42 and was given a prescription for a 2% progesterone cream dosage 60 grams twice daily when I was 39. I absolutely loved it and all of my symptons of what I liked to call "someone stealing my youth" vanished. However, in the past year, I am finding that I need to slow down the dosage drastically and can not take it twice daily and sometimes only 3x per week. By the 3rd time (amount the size of a pea each time) my breasts swell and are painful, I want to inhale all foods, exhausted (despite that I work out daily), 5lbs weight gain and can't remember a darn thing.

Is this due to my having to much progesterone? If so, what should I scale it down to as I do not want to give up entirely in fear that I will go back to the way I was. My libido is fine and somewhat on overdrive is this caused by excessive progesterone too?

Thank you so much. I've read all the posts and they have been extremely insightful.
Mar 13, 2010
 You need more progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Kat. Strange as this might sound, I believe you need more progesterone, not less. You are now in the beginning stages of peri-menopause (PM) and appear to be suffering from excess oestrogen. You might like to look at this web page. PM can start 10 years before menopause, the average age is 51. Please see this web page for more information.

Our progesterone levels start dropping round about age 35, as we stop ovulating each month. But oestrogen doesn't drop until menopause. So the ratio of the two hormones becomes unbalanced, hence our problems. Excess oestrogen also causes weight gain, as it causes water retention and stimulates fat cells to divide and multiply. It also causes insulin resistance, which in turn causes weight gain. With dropping progesterone levels and normal oestrogen levels many adverse symptoms occur, including those you mention. I suggest rubbing the cream onto your breasts if they become tender. Mastodynia and fibrocystic breast disease are caused by excess oestrogen, it's an excitatory hormone, progesterone is calming. Please see this. And this.

I'm a bit puzzled by the dose you say you were given, as 60 grams is 2oz, or the size of a standard tube or tub of progesterone cream. This works out to 1200mg progesterone per day of a 2% cream, quite a large amount! If it was 6g/day, that would give you 120mg/day, which is in the range I suggest, 100-200mg/day, dependant on severity of symptoms. The pea sized amount you say you now use would be giving you about 20mg/day, to my mind no where near enough. Take care, Wray
Mar 13, 2010
 Migraines
by: JJ

Interesting reading here! Can anyone help me out too please? I started using progesterone cream about 3 months ago - about 20-25mg a day as I have perimeno symptoms and the migraines I've had for 30 years increased to an average of 1 a week (for a minimum of 3 days). I haven't noticed any change whatsoever from using the cream, my hair's no better (it got thin and brittle a year or so ago), my libido is virtually nil and the migraines still come and go randomly and painfully. There's so much conflicting advice about the correct prog dosage I'm not sure what to do.

Also, they all recommend changing the places you put the cream, how can you rotate body parts if you have to use more than the one dose? I'm only a littlun and 2 inner thighs take a whole 25mg dose with alot of rubbing in!
Mar 15, 2010
 Many thanks
by: Fi

Wray, Many thanks for your helpful and indepth response, it is so helpful to have this information. I have purchased supplements and will see how I go. Apologies, I suffer both with rosacea and acne (cystic), it was the rosacea that re-appeared in the 1st cycle, then in following 2 cycles, cyctic acne re-appeared and increased, on chin and jaw. Your reply has given me the answer: I failed to mention a very relevant point that I was diagnosed with PCOS at an early age. Many thanks again, and I will follow your advice.
Mar 15, 2010
 Migraines?
by: Wray

HI JJ. 20-25mg is the amount our body's make in a normal luteal phase. There's nothing normal about peri-menopause or migraines! During PM our oestrogen levels remain high, but progesterone is dropping. In fact it starts dropping from about age 35. With excess oestrogen in our bodies, it's converted into androgens, these male hormones cause hair to drop out of the head, plus it causes facial hair to grow too. Don't be too concerned about rotating the areas, as you say it becomes impossible! Don't always rub it on inner thighs or arms either, there are progesterone receptors all over the skin. 95% of the skin comprises keratinocytes, these absorb it well, as do hair follicles. In fact there has been some success with balding men, not all unfortunately! Please see this paper on keratinocytes.

I recommend between 100-200mg/day, but before you increase the amount you use please see this web page. As you're in PM please see this page also. I would suggest you try taking about 2000mg/day inositol, this B vitamin is often called the anti-alopecia vitamin. Also 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, about 14% of the hair, nails and skin comprises cysteine, it keeps them strong and healthy.

Finally please see these papers on migraine and progesterone:
Paper 1
Paper 2
Take care, Wray
Mar 17, 2010
 Inositol Supplement
by: Anonymous

Dear Wray, one thing I did wish to add was that whilst using NP cream over recent cycles, my eyebrows started to grow back, would this suggest that oestrogen dominance had been affecting thyroid? I must admit for the 1st time in years whilst using NP cream, the "brain fog" and my concentration levels soared. I felt great mentally. I do believe in oestrogen dominance now! Since stopping the fog has returned.

Last quick question I promise, I forgot to ask, you mentioned inositol. I previously bought choline/inositol combo. Is this ok to use?

I thank you for your help, I have been so unwell, and my GP has simply labeled it as stress. It is difficult. Thank you for your help, it is so much appreciated. Fi.
Mar 17, 2010
 Normal progesterone levels
by: Rana

Wray, could you let me know what the normal progesterone, estrogen and testosterone levels are in a young menstruating woman?
Mar 18, 2010
 Many thanks
by: Wray

Hi Fi. Ah, confusion cleared up! And PCO throws a whole new light on it too, this is caused by oxidative stress. You might like to see this web page. I still have to update it, but research shows a lack of antioxidants causes PCO, in particular vitamin D. Please have a test done, there's now a pandemic of vitamin D deficiency. It all started when we were told to stay out of the sun or cover ourselves with sunscreen! Most of which contain carcinogenic ingredients, it's essential to only use a natural sunscreen, a very rare beast. There is one on the market, Sunumbra, which is certified 30 spf and UVA 5 star.

Back to the PCO, a lack of vitamin D can cause insulin resistance, which is often present in PCO. A lack of antioxidants causes low grade chronic inflammation, also found in PCO. High parathyroid hormone is present too, this only occurs if vitamin D is low. Two other antioxidants are vital, N-acetyl cysteine (1200-1800mg/day) and arginine (1600mg/day). We are having success with a simple complex of 1200mg cysteine and 1600mg argnine, but have also made up a more complex formula with high dose inositol, all the B vitamins, vitamin D, plus a few other vital ingredients. Please see these papers :
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
Paper 4
Paper 5
Paper 6
Take care, Wray
Mar 18, 2010
 Thank you ever so much!
by: Kat

Dear Wray, I have learned more from your response then any physician I have ever been to! Thank you... thank you!
Mar 19, 2010
 Inositol Supplement
by: Wray

Hi Fi. Firstly, I don't mind how many questions you ask me! Although thinning eyebrows are normally regarded as a thyroid problem, I do wonder if it's not more an excess oestrogen problem and low progesterone. Oestrogen suppresses thyroid function, supplementing with progesterone would suppress oestrogen, so the hair grows back. I love the patterns in this work, or cycles within cycles, so if you'll bear with my theorising, here goes. A low level of vitamin D affects the benefits of progesterone, this was discovered late last year. To date there is no info if the reverse is true, ie low progesterone affects the benefits of vitamin D, but as with everything in the body, there are balances and counterbalances. Low vitamin D affects the thyroid, because parathyroid hormone rises, this slows the thyroid down, leading to, amongst many things, loss of eyebrow hair. So... if my theory is correct, supplementing with progesterone, would stimulate vitamin D levels, which would reduce parathyroid levels, so the thyroid starts functioning again and the hair grows back. So is it high oestrogen, or low progesterone and vitamin D? All these would have to be checked to know the full story. Probably all three have a bearing on it.

Choline and inositol work together, but the inositol has to be in a high dose, about 4000mg/day to benefit. If you take a combo, you would be getting far more choline than you need, which is about 500mg/day. It would also be hugely costly. Far better to get the inositol in powder form, it tastes delicious anyway. One of the few that does! Finally stress drops progesterone levels sharply, as cortisol, our stress hormone, is made from progesterone. Please use more progesterone if stressed. Take care, Wray
Mar 19, 2010
 Normal progesterone levels
by: Wray

Hi Rana, please have a look at this web page. Take care, Wray
Mar 19, 2010
 Thank you ever so much!
by: Wray

Hi Kat. Bless you! Take care, Wray
Mar 22, 2010
 What about oral Progesterone?
by: Sarah

I am 52 and was having symptoms of extreme anxiety, sleeplessness and periods were beginning to be hit and miss. I had my hormones checked and am Estrogen dominant and still had some progesterone but it was lower, much lower than the estrogen. I have been taking the oral progesterone, a product called Progon B. The concentration of this product is 8 pellets = 105mg. I am TAKING ONE PELLET and feel sedated. I feel depressed and non-vital. My breasts do not hurt and I am sleeping like a baby. BUT the sedation in the daytime is depressing me. I use to be very vibrant and outgoing. Now I can barely squeak out a 'hello'. I don't know if it is the progesterone or not. I have stopped it for a day or so, but I get some breakthrough anxiety. Any suggestions? Would cream be a better route? Thanks.
Mar 23, 2010
 Thank you!
by: Fi

Wray, I just wanted to say thank you for all of your help, and sharing so much of your expertise. I can't tell you how much this is appreciated. You have provided so many answers for me, and no doubt countless others. The pieces of the jigsaw are at last starting to fit together. Until I looked at this site, I could not find any answers.

I have decided that I will start NP cream again. I will say that after using inisotol and choline supplement I have seen a big improvement, not so many of the dips in blood sugar levels.

If it were not for this site, I may have thrown my NP cream away. However, I now realise just how much it helped previously.

I am so grateful to you for taking the time to help me. I will track down some inisotol powder. Kind Regards.
Mar 23, 2010
 What about oral Progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Sarah. Oral progesterone is not the best route, much of it gets destroyed in the gut and liver, please see these papers...
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
Paper 4

Although you have oestrogen dominance, when first using progesterone it can get worse. Please see here. It's a question of persevering through this phase. I can't tell how long it will last as it depends so much on symptoms, the severity and how long you've had them. But as you have anxiety please see this page. It gives a list of natural anti anxiety nutrients you could take to help. Most of the successful studies used between 100-200mg/day, some going higher. I would aim for somewhere in this region. Take care, Wray
Mar 25, 2010
 Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi Fi. So pleased the pieces fit together. I received an email last month from a woman in the UK I've been helping for about a year, who had dreadful cravings and PMS each month. The energy complex and the Natpro did help the cravings, but three days before her cycle they returned, plus the 'monster' PMS as she called it. I discovered she was using very little progesterone, about 30-40mg/day, I asked her to use 2tsp, or 330mg/day. She was very apprehensive but did. I received a report back two days ago saying she was on day 23 of her 26 day cycle, and had no cravings or PMS at all! I'm not sure who was more delighted! Take care, Wray
Apr 05, 2010
 Help!
by: Anonymous

I have been using compounded creams for over a year. I am 61 years young. I had uterine cancer in Dec 2008. I had hot flashs, weight gain, miserable, hair loss... life was good until the last 2 months. I'm wondering what went wrong. I'm having hot flushes every 2 hours and can't sleep and I'm feeling very grumpy... I am doing Progesterone 85mg twice daily on my inner thighs, 4mg (80/20)once a day on my lower abdomen. I developed bad itching when I applied it vaginally. 2 mg Testosterone once a day on my wrists. I don't know what has happened.
Apr 05, 2010
 Thank you
by: JJ

Just a quick 'thank you' to Wray for the reply - I'll try what you suggested but I think you're right I definitely need to increase the progesterone! Thanks :-)
Apr 05, 2010
 Am I taking too much progesterone?
by: Tammy

Hi Wray, very informative thread, thank you! I'm 40 years old and currently being treated for estrogen dominance, hypothyroidism, non-stop menstrual flooding/clotting and overall wacky hormones. When first diagnosed I had such low progesterone levels that they barely registered. But after being put on compounded progesterone lozenges (twice per day at 100mg) for the past 6 months my bleeding stopped, periods regulated, hair stopped falling out, it's been a life saver.

My question is, since I'm still testing with very high estrogen levels and last month my Doctor recommended that I DOUBLE my progesterone intake. Since doing this I am so extremely fatigued I can barely get out of bed (and with two small children this is a problem of course!) I'm extremely constipated, have back pain, my menstrual cycle is thrown off again, I have cold sweats, nausea and just generally feeling like I have the flu. After reading this thread I'm wondering, could I be taking too much or do I just need to wait it out? Thanks in advance for your response.
Apr 06, 2010
 Help!
by: Wray

There are two possible reasons. One you are going through a stressful patch, more so than normal, stress drops progesterone levels sharply. Secondly you are using testosterone. I don't believe any woman needs more of this, often given for low libido, or because tests show it is low. Progesterone is excellent for low libido, far safer too. Testosterone suppresses progesterone levels, which could be occurring with you. Plus the enzyme aromatase converts testosterone into oestrogen, thereby increasing your oestrogen level with it's attendant symptoms, some of which you describe. Although progesterone is an effective aromatase inhibitor, and you're using a good amount, the extra testosterone you're using would counter this to some extent. I suggest you stop the testosterone and see if that brings relief.

If you can afford it I do know 400-600mg/day of progesterone stops all hot flushes within 3-4 days. Incidentally aromatase inhibitor drugs are often given to women with cancer. Progesterone, as a natural aromatase inhibitor, has no adverse side affects, unlike the drugs. Please don't limit rubbing the cream to your inner thighs. The skin comprises 95% keratinocytes, these have abundant progesterone receptors, in other words, you can rub the cream anywhere. Even hair follicles absorb progesterone well. The itching in the vagina could be one of the ingredients in the cream you're using, progesterone does not cause itching. To find out more about the ingredients please see here. Take care, Wray
Apr 06, 2010
 Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi JJ. Oh good, do hope it helps! I've yet to find it doesn't, but so many sites, books, doctors warn against using too high a dose. I've yet to find adverse symptoms with a high dose either. Besides, once symptoms have subsided it's so easy to reduce to the optimum amount. There's little point in using a high dose if not required, just a waste of money! Take care, Wray
Apr 06, 2010
 Am I taking too much progesterone?
by: Wray

Hi Tammy. Thanks for the kind words and good news the progesterone has helped. You're going through oestrogen dominance symptoms again! Wonderful you have a doctor who doesn't hesitate to use high doses. Does he have a website where I can get his information? I'm trying to 'collect' doctors like him! There are very few. If you want to learn more about oestrogen dominance please have a look here.

Although you've been using high dose progesterone, doubling it will still cause the oestrogen receptor sites to be activated. There are two things you can do... wait it out as you say, or reduce the dose back down to the 200mg/day and increase gradually. The second option will take longer to reduce your oestrogen levels, but it will give you your life back!

Having said that I'm not convinced lozenges are the best delivery route. The dose has to be far higher than needed with a cream. According to one report more than 50%, occasionally up to 70%, of the total dose of hormone is swallowed. Once swallowed stomach acids and the liver will destroy up to 90% of the hormone. Although this does not affect oestrogen, both testosterone and progesterone are not suited to this route. Absorption of transdermal progesterone cream has been found to be as effective as injections and to enter circulation rapidly. It has an advantage over all the other systems as it can be used where needed. On painful areas, in the vagina for dryness and inflammation, excellent for burns, on the face where it helps with wrinkles and more. Please see these papers, including one on oral progesterone...
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
Paper 4
Paper 5
Take care, Wray
Apr 06, 2010
 Progesterone cream
by: Danita

I take it and they told me not to use it in excess because it can cause facial hair growth and voice become really coarse, like manly. Some of the symptoms are irreversible. I have to get my levels checked regularly. I seem to get tired if it gets low and have more enery when its level and better sex drive. Good luck.
Apr 06, 2010
 Hair loss
by: Danita

Hi Wray, haven't been on in a while but wanted to remind you that when I was having severe hair loss, I was making no progesterone at all. I believe its 3 now, not sure what its suppose to be but I guess from what I've heard about 10, is that true? Anyways, still don't feel completely normal but hair is growing back big time. I was put on Prometrium 100 mg and then monthly inj. and now I'm taking Prometrium 200 mg dly. Has been easier to live with but not totally myself, not as social as I used to be. Prometrium is an FDA approved compounded which makes me feel safer since cancer's big in my family and insurance covers it. If you have anymore advice let me know please. Thanks.
Apr 06, 2010
 Help!
by: Anonymous

Thank you so much, I will stop the testosterone. Should I continue the Biest cream which I forgot to include... Biest 80-20 4mg. once daily? I am so hoping this is what is happening, I also am definitely going through some stress right now. My BHRT Doctor is so busy he doesn't have time to explain what might be happening. You are a God Send. I thank you! Kathy.
Apr 07, 2010
 Progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Danita. It can't cause facial hair to grow, the opposite in fact. Facial hair and a deeper voice are both caused by testosterone, the male hormone. Progesterone is not a sex hormone, it has no bearing on the secondary sexual characteristics which develop in puberty. I had facial hair and within three months of using progesterone it had all dropped out. Progesterone suppresses excess androgens, hence it's effectiveness in facial hair in women. It does help with energy too, as it's thermogenic, meaning it speeds metabolism slightly. Finally it does increase libido as it stimulates the production of nitric oxide, much the same way Viagra works, but without the adverse side affects. Take care, Wray
Apr 07, 2010
 Hair loss
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Wonderful news about the hair growing back, it should. You could consider taking the B vitamin inositol, often called the anti-alopecia vitamin, as it helps hair growth. N-acetyl cysteine is another nutrient you could consider, about 14% of our hair, nails and skin is cysteine, strengthening all of these considerably. It's also a powerful sulphur amino acid, and is often low in cancer. Prometrium is good, but I would consider the suppositories, as oral progesterone is mostly destroyed by the gut and liver, hence not feeling yourself still in spite of the good dose, please see these...
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
paper 4
Take care, Wray
Apr 07, 2010
 Help!
by: Wray

Hi Kathy. Glad I was of some help. But now I'm concerned to hear you're using an oestrogen cream too! I really don't believe we need extra oestrogen, even in menopause we are still making it in our fat cells. It will also be countering the affect of progesterone. Oestrogen is mitogenic, it causes cells to divide and multiply, hence it's dangers in cancer, fibroids, cysts, endometriosis, all of these are oestrogen stimulated diseases. Besides we get more than enough, too much in fact, in our food, air, water and the skin care we all use, as they all contain oestrogen mimics, unless organic. Please see here. Take care, Wray
Apr 09, 2010
 still confused...
by: JJ

I'm trying to figure out exactly where I fit into the cream usage pattern. I am peri-meno but not sure if I should use the cream daily as advised, as my periods aren't exactly eratic. They've been slightly out of kilter for a few months (I was always a 23 day cycle). Since Dec 09 they have been 25 days, 28, 18 and now 29 days with a no-show. Do I therefore fit into the 'use the cream every day' category? Thanks in advance :-)
Apr 09, 2010
 Help!
by: Kathy

Now I am really really confused. The Doctor I have been seeing for over a year has been practising for many many years. Also my compounding pharmacist. They believe them as a system. I have upped my dose of progesterone as you suggested and I feel like my heart is racing way too fast. My hot flushes aren't as severe, but I just restarted doing 1 line of Biest. Woe is me, what to do.. I'm 61 and I want to be healthy and happy like last year. Hormones where amazing, life was great, now, what to do, who to believe?
Apr 11, 2010
 still confused...
by: Wray

Hi JJ. You could use it daily, to me your cycles are sufficiently erratic, from 18 days to 29 days. But if you feel you can still follow it by all means do so. I just found it easier, as it should be used from ovulation for the last 14 days. So in your 18 day cycle you should have started it on day 4, but the day 29 cycle on day 16. Being in P-M you won't be ovulating each month either, so it's not critical to follow your cycle. If you were much younger using it beforehand it can act as a contraceptive. Take care, Wray
Apr 11, 2010
 Help!
by: Wray

Hi Kathy. It can be confusing getting different opinions! I'm just amazed they gave you oestrogen as you had cancer. As I pointed out in my previous reply, oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply. Women are often given oestrogen blockers or even aromatase inhibitors which suppresses all oestrogen after they've had cancer. Instead they are giving you oestrogen! Please see these papers...
Paper 1
Paper 2
Paper 3
Paper 4
Paper 5
Paper 6
I don't believe any woman needs extra oestrogen or testosterone for that matter, as it too can be converted into oestrogen by the enzyme aromatase. Progesterone is an excellent aromatase inhibitor. Take care, Wray
Apr 12, 2010
 hormones
by: Danita

Thanks Wray, I will ask about the Prometrium via suppository. I have again changed my dose to 200mg (was 100mg) and I've stopped the monthly injections of prog. I'm still taking the testosterone. I am going to get those suggested vitamins. Will that help the zoned out or flat affect I have, non-social feeling I have almost all the time. I've been a stay home mom, but want to go back to work but nervous about being around people daily. I've never been this way! Can you suggest anything? Maybe need to make some changes. I'm also taking Wellbuterin, was taking Zoloft but had no sex drive so changed. I did feel better when taking the Zoloft, just want one that doesn't cause decreased sex drive or weight gain. Please help!
Apr 14, 2010
 hormones
by: Wray

Hi Danita. I'm sure you'll find it of far greater benefit. In fact, if the Prometrium you have is in caps, with an oil inside, you can use those as suppositories, the gel does dissolve once it's warmed up. I'm concerned you're using testosterone, as I told someone else on this page, I don't believe any woman needs more of this. It does suppress progesterone and the enzyme aromatase converts testosterone into oestrogen, thereby increasing your oestrogen level. Not what you need if you have cancer in the family. And the fact you're on AD's at the moment shows you need more than progesterone, certainly you don't need testosterone, as this suppresses what little you have.

I'm amazed they switched you from Zoloft to Wellbutrin, they have different functions. Zoloft prevents serotonin being destroyed, Wellbutrin prevents dopamine from being destroyed. Two very different neurotransmitters! If you felt better on the Zoloft you are obviously short of serotonin. The precursor amino acid is tryptophan. The precursor to dopamine is the amino tyrosine. Both these aminos are excellent for depression. Looking at your symptoms "zoned out, flat affect, non-social feeling" it could be you need both these aminos, please see here.

Finally with cancer in the family and you with depression, it strikes me you are deficient in vitamin D. A lack of this vitamin can lead to both cancer and depression. Please have a test done. Vitamin D is so vital to health, I can't stress this enough. In fact all of us should have a test done, as between up to 50% of us have a deficiency. Take care, Wray
Apr 14, 2010
 Thanks
by: jj

Thanks again Wray :-)
Apr 14, 2010
 progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray. I talked to my pharmacist about getting Prometrium in suppository form and he told me it doesn't come in a suppository. He did say over half of his prescribed to individuals are using suppositories anyway. Would 200mg be too much to use as suppository?
Apr 15, 2010
 Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Danita. 200mg is not too high, it's a good amount to use. Have you considered using a progesterone cream? They are as effective as suppositories and have many advantages. The cream can be rubbed anywhere, excellent for aches and pains, for burns, dry vagina, on the face etc. Another advantage is the dose can be adjusted to suit. Please think about it! See here...
Page 1
Page 2
Take care, Wray
Apr 15, 2010
 Hormones
by: Danita

Hi Wray. Thanks a lot for that info. Still need to know about the dosage being ok on Prometrium using it as suppository. If I stopped my testosterone and change back to Zoloft, my energy and libido will worsen. So, since I've seen that you mentioned that Viagra works for women, can Cialis work as well? Do you think these changes will help me? You really seem to know a lot about this. Thanks sooo much!
Apr 16, 2010
 Hormones and antidepressants
by: Danita

Wray, thanks for your advice. I do have the gel tabs (Prometrium), still can use it as suppository, right? Also, can you recommend an antidepressant that wouldn't affect libibo and has the serotin I need since you said Wellbuterin doesn't, I knew it made me feel worse, just trying to fix the libido problem. Thanks again!
Apr 20, 2010
 Hormones and antidepressants
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Sorry about the delay in replying, I have so many contributions and emails to answer I can't keep up! I'm answering the two you have just written in one. Firstly the dose of 200mg is fine if used as a suppository, excellent in fact. You'll find it far more affective too, and it should help the depression as it raises serotonin levels, but with none of the adverse side affects of the drugs. Please don't change back to the Zoloft! There are many natural anti-depressants you can take in place of the AD's, see here.

You'll find no adverse side affects from taking the natural AD's, unlike the drugs, not only that they are all vital to our health. When stressed our neurotransmitters drop, progesterone drops, the B vitamins drop and more. I can't remember ever saying Viagra works for women, I would never recommend it to men either! What I do say is progesterone works in the same way as Viagra, it stimulates the production of nitric oxide. This is vital for a healthy libido. Nitric oxide is a vasodilator, which means blood flows more easily. It also prevents platelets aggregating, meaning it prevents clots. Well progesterone is also a vasodilator and it also prevents platelets aggregating. It reduces thrombin by 10%, thrombin is a protein involved in clotting. You need to get your nutrient level up, your progesterone level up and then I think you'll start feeling a difference. Please have a vitamin D test done, a low level leads to depression, it also reduces the benefits of progesterone. Take care, Wray
Apr 20, 2010
 progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray. Yes I have tried progesterone cream but wasn't getting levels up so she switched me to the gel tabs, the Prometrium 200 mg. I was thinking about using it as a suppository, is that ok to use as suppository also? I thought about stopping my testosterone, should I even though its low?
Apr 22, 2010
 progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Danita. I would imagine the amount of progesterone in the cream was too low to have an affect. The amount has to be between 100-200mg/day to really work. Often the recommended dose is only 20-30mg/day, which is far too little. Yes it's best to use it as a suppository as you'll get the full amount of progesterone, the gel will dissolve, but best to use it at night. My only concern with using it only once a day, is that progesterone levels start dropping after 13 hours. See how you get on and think about using a cream in preference. And I don't believe any woman needs extra testosterone, low or not! Take care, Wray
Apr 24, 2010
 Am I taking the right step?
by: Gina

First, I'll say I don't have insurance, and I don't have the money for a bunch of tests or dr's visits, unfortunately.

I am 27, and my past couple cycles, my PMS has gotten out of control. Also, although my cycle is 'normal', I've been having a LOT of breakthrough bleeding prior to my period actually beginning normally. I also had trouble in the fall with cysts bursting (could possibly be diagnosed with PCOS?). I was on a BC pill for about 6 years, but finally couldn't take the hormone changes. I haven't been on for a year and a half now, but have had various problems since then. I happened upon a website that talked about estrogen dominance and really feel I fit into that well! I got some supplements (DIM, milk thistle, taurine, and grapeseed), and have been using the progesterone cream now the past week.

Am I taking the right steps to help myself? I could get my period within the next couple weeks, which will also test whether my mood is stabilized at all. (Or at least that's what I'm hoping!)

Also, I'll note that the past 4 months, I've been taking D3 for other reasons, didn't know it helps with this too! So I have that in my daily routine as well.

Thanks for any advice you can give! It's been hard to know where to turn, and most women my age I talk to have no clue about estrogen dominance!
Apr 25, 2010
 25 yr old using Progesterone Cream
by: Jenn

Hello, everyone! I've been reading through some of the comments on here, and they have been pretty helpful, but I thought I'd jump in to ask some more questions specific to my case. I am 25 yrs old and I was diagnosed with PCOS. I have had moderate to nodular acne since I was 13 years old (when I started my period) and have been on every treatment known to man. The most recent treatment that I took that worked only half the time was the BC pill, Yasmin. I stopped taking that about 10 months ago, and four months after my acne flared immensely.

For 5 months now I have been eating healthy (no refined/processed carbs or alcohol). For three months now I have been exercising (about an hour on a cardio machine at 140-150 heartbeats per min, about 5 times a week) and I just started using 20mg progesterone cream on days 12 until I start bleeding (which keeps coming earlier every month) for about 3 months now. So far, it has helped somewhat with the nodular acne, but now I get the moderately sized kind more frequently and on all areas of my face (not just neck, chin, and jaw).

My question is, should I continue to take the cream and hope that my hormones will eventually even out? I also recently started taking 50mg zinc, 1000mg cinnamon (to help with sugar metabolism), and 1000mg Omega 3 fish oil supplements. I also take vit D and eat carrots everyday. I have lost 10 lbs since starting my healthy eating routine, but I have noticed that weight loss has become more difficult since starting the cream. Am I doing the right things here?
Apr 26, 2010
 Am I taking the right step?
by: Wray

Hi Gina. I prefer to work with symptoms, tests only show the level in our blood or saliva, not how we feel! I'm very relieved you're off the pill, you might like to
read why here.

The pill can cause havoc with the cycle after we've come off it. I've helped a number of women who had no period at all, spotting as you're having it, not ovulating, erratic cycles etc. You do need to use a larger amount than normal to prevent the bleeding prior to the actual period, about 200mg or more per day. One girl had to use 400mg to prevent it, so experiment with the amount till you find the optimum. The supplements you're taking are all good, DIM has a mild oestrogenic action, it binds to the oestrogen receptor sites, so preventing the more powerful oestrogens from working. To my mind not necessary if you're using progesterone. Milk thistle is excellent, an antioxidant, it helps stabilise blood glucose and aids the liver in detoxing, I take this daily. Taurine is a remarkable amino, it's role in the body too long to recount here, but one I recommend many, many times. I take 5000mg/day. For a brief list on what it does please see here.

By grapeseed I take it you mean resveratrol? It also has anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer properties. Like DIM it's a weak phytoestrogen, binding to oestrogen receptor sites. The only caution I can find is in people who have an oestrogen dependant cancer, the same caution applies to DIM. I'm very pleased you're taking vitamin D3, I hope enough! It should be 5000 IU's per day, although if your level is low 10,000 IU's would be better, then have another test a few months later. I know you say you don't have the money, but this is one test everyone should have on a yearly basis. For more information please see here. If you'd like to know more about PCO please see here. Take care, Wray
Apr 26, 2010
 25 yr old using Progesterone Cream
by: Wray

Hi Jenn. You are doing the right things, particularly coming off the pill! You might like to read what it was doing to you. Please see here.

The pill suppresses all ovarian function, which means it suppresses oestrogen, testosterone and progesterone, this last is not a good thing. Excess testosterone causes acne, the reason teenage boys get it far worse than girls. So by suppressing the hormone which causes acne it tends to reduce it, if not eliminate it. Testosterone itself is stimulated by insulin, keep insulin levels down, testosterone normalises and no more acne. So the cinnamon is an excellent supplement to take, you can go up to 6000mg/day.The fish oil and the D3 too, I hope enough, 5000IU's minimum. Please have a test done, this is the most important nutrient above all others, about 50% of us are deficient in it. Please see here.

I suggest you increase the zinc to 100mg/day for a month or two, you should find this helps greatly. Then reduce slowly till you find the optimum amount. PCO is caused by oxidative stress, this leads to inflammation which upsets the ovaries. Another reason D3 is so essential, as it reverses inflammation. So do the amino acids N-acetyl cysteine and arginine, you need large amounts of these too, plus the B vitamin inositol, which helps lower insulin levels. The amount of progesterone you are using is the same amount we normally make in a monthly cycle, useless if there are problems, PCO is a problem! But not one that can't be healed, but you do need to use about 200mg/day, for more information on PCO please see here.

The reason you're finding the weight loss slowing up is oestrogen dominance, for more information please see here. Take care, Wray
Apr 26, 2010
 Ordered Natpro
by: Rana

I have been reading questions/comments and Wray's responses to those. I am more informed now about hormone replacement for post menaupousal women and I am convinced that extra progesterone will help me, so I ordered a tube and I will share my experience with it on this page after I start using it.
Apr 27, 2010
 Ordered Natpro
by: Wray

Hi Rana. Glad my comments helped you. Please read the web page we have on oestrogen dominance before using the cream, this can occur and is very disconcerting if it does! See here.

Please remember stress drops progesterone levels sharply, causing symptoms to come back. Use more cream over the stressful time. Take care, Wray
Apr 27, 2010
 Trying more cream
by: Gina

Thanks for your advice! Your website has been SO informative! I have found other sites where women have complained about "side effects" of progesterone cream (but it's actually the effects of estrogen dominance!) and then stopped taking it because of it. :(

I am upping the amount of cream I use. I also wanted to ask - I started very light pink thin spotting a day or so ago. I have been taking the cream 7 days now (starting at my day 14, so now it's day 20). I'm unsure whether I should continue taking the cream for another week or whether this is actually my period. It's NOT how it usually starts (nor is it how my breakthrough bleeding usually is!). Please help!
Apr 29, 2010
 Trying more cream
by: Wray

Hi Gina. Thanks for the kind words! And yes you are right, such a pity about the lack of info on oestrogen dominance, it would save a great deal of heartache if only it was explained to women about to start progesterone. I'm pleased you're going to increase the amount, but don't forget oestrogen dominance can kick in again! Please continue with the cream if it's only spotting. It's only when you have an obvious flow of blood should you stop it. Having said that, many women experience cramps during their period, in which case I recommend continuing it's use, rubbing it over the painful area. The pain is caused by prostaglandins, these cause the uterus to cramp, progesterone suppresses them. As you've increased the amount you use, the early spotting is caused by the progesterone, this can happen when starting it or when the amount is increased. It normally settles down in a cycle or two. You say you started the cream on day 14, do you have a 27 day cycle? The cream should be used after ovulation, for the last 14 days, ie 14 days before you bleed. For more information please see here.
Take care, Wray
Apr 29, 2010
 Everyone woman needs to know about this blog
by: Kat

Hi Wray, I've increased my progesterone as per your suggestion and of course you were absolutely right!

My fogginess, weight gain, break-outs, sore breasts and so many more negative symptoms have disappeared completely. I truly can not thank you enough! You listen to us all and care about our symptoms and do not just look at our numbers from our test results. You do realize how rare that is?! I have been seeking assistance for my sypmtoms for 6 years and have gone to countless doctors... not one has helped like you have. I helped them by taking thousands of unnecessary tests and lining thier pockets. My life is back to normal and I wish I could give you a hug! Thank you... thank you... thank you!
Apr 29, 2010
 progesterone cream
by: Danita

Hi Wray, I went to the Dr. today and she gave me a progesterone inj. 100mg to help me to feel better temporarily and after my next period, I'm suppose to start taking a larger dose of Prometrium (300mg). I've been having 2 periods a month so she said if this doesn't work, shes going to do an ultrasound an possibly a biopsy. I went over a year without having a period, then somewhat normal and now having two. What does this sound like to you? I also gave her this website because its so informative. Thanks so much for your help.
Apr 30, 2010
 progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Thanks for spreading the word! It sounds to me as if you're in peri-menopause. But I can't remember how old you are, if you even gave me your age. P-M is the most difficult time with very erratic periods, please see here. If you are in P-M, no amount of progesterone is going to regulate your cycle. So it's far better to ignore it and use the Prometrium as a suppository daily, two would be better. If I'm right an ultrasound and biopsy are not needed, as everything is going according to nature, assuming you are in P-M. If she insists you take progesterone, it's no wonder she's given you 300mg, please see...

"Two progesterone presentations, a vaginal application of 90 mg progesterone per day (Crinone) or 300 mg progesterone administered orally (Utrogestan)... The fact that Crinone matches the efficacy of the larger doses of progesterone used orally reflects an advantage of the transvaginal route of administration which avoids the metabolic inactivation of progesterone during its first liver pass."

This is why I've asked you to use it as a suppository, and far better if she gives you 100mg twice a day, to keep the level up. Even better if you used a cream, the advantages are far greater as it can be used anywhere, plus the dose can be adjusted immediately to suit. I seem to remember you were concerned about using a cream because of cancer. I don't think you need have any concern as progesterone is progesterone, no matter what route is used to deliver it. The two following papers show it is well absorbed, see here. And here. Please take a look at a web page we have on progesterone and cancer. Take care, Wray
Apr 30, 2010
 Everyone woman needs to know about this blog
by: Wray

Hi Kat. Well you've brought tears to my eyes, bless you, and thank you for your 'virtual' hug as I love hugs! Having been through hell and back myself several times too, I know what it's like, specially if you have no one to talk to who understands it. My particular hells were depression going through puberty, post natal depression which lasted 4 years, then finally peri-menopause hit...! And all I needed was a little help from progesterone. In fact I put my daughter on it at 14 because she was talking about feeling low on occasion. Nothing infuriates me more than to hear a woman has been told to 'pull yourself together, it's all in your mind'. Or to hear a woman in her 30's has been told she's too young to have hormonal problems. They can start at birth! The youngest 'woman' on record to start bleeding was 1 year old! She was born with breasts too, this often occurs in newborns, males too, but disappears about 3 months later, not with her. I also thank you for trusting me about increasing the dose, it really does help. Sometimes symptoms worsen, but they do go far quicker than the low dose route. Thank you! Take care, Wray
Apr 30, 2010
 A few more questions...
by: Jenn

Hi Wray! Thank you so much for your previous response. That was very helpful. I do have a few more questions:

1) When I am using progesterone cream (20-40mg a day) my skin gets slightly better, but when I stop taking it during the month, my acne flares up horribly. Is this due to not taking enough?

2) I heard that progesterone cream (with PCOS patients) is supposed to supplement your body until you can produce your own progesterone. If I increase to the amount you recommend (100-200mg a day), will it prevent my body from creating its own progesterone? Then if I take that amount for a while, how will I know when to start tappering off to let my body do its job, or do I have to stay on cream for the rest of my life?

3) If I start taking the higher amount, will I stop having such bad acne flares on the break from the cream during the month?

Thank you so much for your input!
May 02, 2010
 A few more questions...
by: Wray

Hi Jenn. I'll answer your questions as you have them down.

1) Yes, you are not using enough. As I said 20-40mg is the amount we normally make in a month, useless if a problem is present!

2) Increasing the amount to 100-200mg/day will not prevent you making your own progesterone, unless you use it before ovulation. If used before, it can act as a contraceptive by stopping ovarian function. But unlike the Pill it has no adverse side affects, only good! So it must be used from ovulation for the last 14 days of your cycle. For more info on our cycles please see here.

You don't have to stay on the cream for life, although it is so beneficial for so many other things! Once the acne has cleared (by reducing insulin levels with diet and supplements!), once you are ovulating regularly each month, bleeding regularly, and a scan shows no more cysts on the ovaries, you can start reducing.

3) Possibly, but acne really must be controlled with diet and supplements. It's imperative to reduce insulin levels, this increases both testosterone and IGF-1, both these stimulate the sebaceous glands excessively. One thing you could try, which others have found helpful, is using the progesterone daily for about 3 months. This will disrupt your period, but it will help the outbreaks and give your ovaries a rest too. It's easy enough to regulate the cycle again using the progesterone.

The most important thing to do for PCO is reduce the inflammation that causes it. Although progesterone is an excellent anti inflammatory, it's not sufficient. You do need vitamin D, cysteine, argnine, and a number of other powerful antioxidants. I have recently formulated a complex for PCO which is working for 4 girls who have tried it. I would be happy to send you some, if you're interested please contact me here. Take care, Wray
May 02, 2010
 progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray, I did talk to you about taking the compounded cream progesterone, but didn't have good results, couldn't get my levels up and adjusted constantly. My progesterone levels were 0. My symptoms begin when I was 39 yrs old with severe insomnia and kept worsening. The symptoms that bother me the most now are inability to concentrate, depressed and antisocial feeling, breast tenderness at times and anxiety.

I had already started taking the Zoloft before I got your comment back saying not to. I also ordered trytophan but haven't started taking it yet. Anyway, I'm 45 yrs old now. She gave me Prometrium 300mg to start after my next period. I was taking 200mg until I got the 100mg injection, now taking 100mg til start period, then after period go to 300mg. Still decreased libido. My Dr. is afraid she may mask something or overlook it with focusing on hormones so much. I had one ovary removed last year.
May 03, 2010
 Progesterone treatment for Fibrocystic breasts
by: Wray

Hi Danita. I remember you saying you had tried the cream, but my concern was the amount of progesterone in many creams, plus the dose recommended, would have been far too low to make a difference. Most recommend 20-40mg/day, you need about 200mg/day. Taking 300mg/day oral progesterone means you will be getting about 60mg/day, as about 80% is destroyed in the gut and liver. Please see here. And here.

Oral progesterone also puts a strain on the liver as it has to metabolise it. Hence my suggestion you used the caps as suppositories/pessaries. All your symptoms point to low a progesterone level, too high an oestrogen level, so I don't think focussing on hormones is incorrect. Removing an ovary would also affect hormone levels. The breast tenderness can be resolved quite easily by rubbing a progesterone cream directly on to your breasts, difficult when using an oral progesterone! Are you aware Zoloft causes anxiety, insomnia and decreased libido? Please see here. Please see our web page on anxiety. And please have a vitamin D test done, a lack of this also causes depression and anxiety. Plus a low level reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more information please see here. Take care, Wray
May 06, 2010
 progesterone
by: Danita

Hi Wray. I do take Vitamin D as prescribed by my GYN. She said my levels were better. About the Prometrium, do you think I should take 100 mg in am orally and 200mg suppository at night? Do you think that would level me out more? I will try to gradually get off Zoloft. I have quit my testosterone cream. I also bought some L-tryptophan and Inositol & Choline to take, haven't started it yet. Thanks so much for your help!
May 07, 2010
 progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Danita. I would be interested to hear what 'better' means! The standard range is between 30-70ng/ml, and yet new research is indicating it should be 50-100ng/ml, but if possible between 90-100ng/ml. Please find out. I really don't think you should bother with taking the progesterone, just a waste, as it's not doing much and straining the liver unnecessarily too. So pleased you read the web page on how to come off AD's, it's far gentler to the body to give it help as you do. Let me know how you get on. Pleased you've quit the testosterone! Take care, Wray
May 10, 2010
 PCOS
by: Fi

Hi Wray, sorry to pester you again! However, I really value your expertise. I was given a clinical diagnosis of PCOS at the age of 26 scan and blood tests revealed PCOS. In my late 30's I was advised by doctors that there was no evidence of this condition. Now I am in my late forties as I mentioned. My feelings are that PCOS cannot really be determined by scans on their own. PCOS is an endocrine disorder. I have always kept my weight within acceptable range or below. Please could you tell me are these doctors correct when they mention than PCOS can be cured/eradicated?

I am not convinced and feel that symptoms can be controlled. I thank you for your help! Sorry I realise that this is not relevant to progesterone. I found the information on PCOS extremely helpful, and wish that I had discovered this years ago! Kind regards.
May 11, 2010
 Please help
by: Danita

Hi Wray, wanted to remind you that Im 45 years old. I have been doing the Prometrium 200 mg as suppository. Also, I'm down to taking 50 mg of Zoloft every 2-3 days trying to stop them, not taking testosterone and continuing vit.D. I do take Trazodone to sleep and have been taking that for about 9 months which does help me sleep but doesn't help me stay asleep well. Sometimes I have to take a low dose Xanax with it to get sound rest. Also been prescribed that for months but only use it when necessary. I started the increased dose of Prometrium almost 2 weeks ago. I am starting to feel less antisocial and seem to not have the fogginess and decreased ability to concentrate, so that seems better. Now for about the last 3 or 4 days I have had such a dry mouth that it causes me to not breath deep because I'm always trying to make more saliva by sucking on the side of my mouth so bad that I'm constantly having to use things on my lips and feel like I need a lubricant for my mouth, it causes me anxiety making it unmanagable for me or intolerable and I've started having severe night sweats. All the other symptoms are better, just wondered what might be causing this. I plan to start my tryptophan tonight at bedtime. Any advice, I would appreciate it!
May 12, 2010
 PCOS and progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Fi. I don't mind how many times you pester me! PCOS is an endocrine disorder, but only in as much as the ovaries have been damaged by oxidative stress. This creates turmoil within them and the feedback loop to the hypothalamus and pituitary. The wrong message is getting through, which sends the wrong message back to the ovaries, so a vicious cycle ensues.

PCO is normally found through both a scan of the ovaries which reveal multiple cysts, and checking hormone levels. Invariably LH is high, as the pituitary is trying to stimulate ovulation. Progesterone is often not checked for, and yet that is often low, as anovulation is extremely common in PCO. Antioxidants are low of course, but never checked for, the most important being vitamin D which is low, and never checked for! Insulin resistance occurs in many, but it has been found that the ovaries do still respond to high insulin, which in turn causes LH and the androgens to rise. Insulin is of course a hormone, and a higher than normal level is often not checked for. But insulin only rises if glucose levels are too high, this rises in response to excess glucose in the diet, chiefly from grains, legumes and sugar itself.

So yes it is a hormonal problem, but originates with oxidative stress. Can it be cured? Well the medical profession use glucophage to reduce glucose levels, which does help, but not cure the problem as it doesn't reverse the oxidative stress. This must be reversed before it's cured. The most oxidising food is sugar in any form. Pollution causes oxidation, a lack of vitamin D causes it, a lack of antioxidants in the diet causes it. Stress causes it too, another feedback loop. Although excess weight can play a part, it's usually a result rather than a cause. So yes I believe it can be reversed, but only with antioxidants, plus progesterone of course! Take care, Wray
May 12, 2010
 Please help
by: Wray

Hi Danita. Trazadone can cause dry mouth, but so can excess oestrogen. What I believe has occurred, by increasing the progesterone, the oestrogen receptors have been activated again. In other words you are suffering from oestrogen dominance symptoms, particularly as you say you are having night sweats. You could reduce the progesterone slightly which should help, and then increase it at a slower rate. Or just hang in there, as it will pass. It seems a pity to reduce it, when it's helping already. Glad you're going to try the tryp, please consider taking inositol too, to help you sleep. It won't affect the tryp if taken together at night. And I hope you're taking enough vit D, 5000iu's per day minimum. Take care, Wray
May 14, 2010
 Many thanks!
by: Fi

Hi Wray, many thanks for your in depth and helpful reply, this makes so much sense;- good nutrition is key, plus progesterone;- progesterone levels never seem to be that important to some doctors, but they are. Just wish I had this information 20 years ago - if only! I'll print this out! Kind regards.
May 16, 2010
 Bleeding and HRT
by: Angela

Hi Wray. I am 53, started on a very small HRT dose 2 years ago because of terrible hot flashes although had only skipped one period at that time (at the time, .25 Vivelle patch and 50 mg oral progesterone, but switched to compounded cream). Felt good, went about 4 months and then had a few periods, stopped bleeding again for 6 more months, then upped the estrogen dose when hot flashes came back (to .5 Vivelle patch).

A few months after that I started having light periods every 14 days or so. I went up to 100mg progesterone cream, which regulated the bleeding to a period every 32 days or so, but it came with terrible PMS and mild cramps, which I haven't had in years. I keep adjusting the HRT dose but without luck (went up to 150mg progesterone but still had periods and PMS). Just quit HRT altogether, felt horrible (hot flashes came right back), and so I went back on! Have to have a biopsy next week (an ultrasound showed an 8mm endometrial lining and a small fibroid). This is all so confusing. I don't even know if I'm in menopause yet because of the bleeding and PMS, or if that's from the HRT. What do you make of all this? Do I need to stop taking even the small estrogen dose? Would that help stop the bleeding and PMS? Many thanks!
May 17, 2010
 Forgot to say...
by: Angela

Hi Wray. Forgot to say that my HRT regimen is continual, and yet I still spot every 14 days on lower dose progesterone (under 100mg) or have light periods with PMS/cramps about every 30-32 days when I use 100mg or more of the compounded progesterone (at which point I go off all HRT because I think my body is telling me it needs to have a period). On the lower progesterone dose, when I spot, I have no cramps (mild PMS). I don't understand why I was able to go 6 months or more with no bleeding on HRT, and then suddenly that changed (never heavy bleeding, but regular spotting, cramps, PMS). I don't know what's happening to me! Thank you for any advice you can offer. This site is fantastic.
May 18, 2010
 Many thanks!
by: Wray

Hi Fi. Glad it was of help! Take care Wray
May 18, 2010
 Bleeding and HRT
by: Wray

Hi Angela. It doesn't surprise me your endometrial lining is 8mm thick, oestrogen and only oestrogen can stimulate this to grow! It also stimulates fibroids too, please see here. You might like to read what the HRT is doing to you here. Staying on the HRT will cause you to have periods forever, so please quit again! But to do so gently it's best to