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Large Doses Help

Hi - I tried your progesterone cream and when i began to experience symptoms of too much estrogen I increased the dosage of your progesterone cream as you suggest many times on this site. It's been several months and every time I try to reduce the dosage even a little i get acne and sore/tender/larger breasts so assuming this is my estrogen levels creeping up again.

I am using a lot of cream - about one tube every 3 days - and it's getting too expensive for me to continue. Is there a way to ease of such large doses without experiencing estrogen rising again? I feel like I may have messed up my system by using too much of your progesterone cream. If I increase my dosage of progesterone, I get too sleepy.

Comments for Large Doses Help

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Dec 31, 2012
 Large Doses Help
by: Wray

Hi there You are using a very high level, not that it's dangerous, but it is costly. Please have a vitamin D test done, a lack of this reduces the benefits of progesterone. When combined with vitamin D the effect is greater, see here, here, here, here and here. So you should be able to reduce the progesterone. You might like to see these comments from others who have found a difference, see here and here, scroll to 'Nov 26, 2012 Having a Hard Time'. We do have two pages on breasts, see Breast Tenderness and Breast Cysts. We also have page on Acne too. High testosterone initiates acne. If bound to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) testosterone becomes inactive, progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone. SHBG drops if sugars are eaten, even those found in all grains, legumes, processed milk and sweet starchy fruits and vegetables. Fructose, sucrose and glucose, reduce SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. Thereby allowing testosterone to rise. It's best to avoid all the foods and sugars mentioned. Wine and beers contain carbs, so it's best to avoid those too. Sugars and large meals also drop progesterone levels, see here. Continued below
Dec 31, 2012
 Large Doses Help Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there Plus insulin drops levels too, see here. This means SHBG also drops, another vicious cycle. It will be necessary to get your vitamin D levels up, before reducing the progesterone. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. If it helps you, we do give a 30% discount on 20 tubes. Many women buy this to share with family or friends, is it possible for you to do the same? When reducing the progesterone, please do so very slowly, no more than 1/2ml per day, or 16mg progesterone. It's best to stay on this amount for a few days before reducing further. Take care Wray
Dec 31, 2012
 RE: Large Doses Help
by: Anonymous

My Vit D levels are fine and I eat a clean diet: no flour, grains, minimal sugar (unprocessed), or alcohol and exercise regularly. In the majority of posts you say to increase the amount of cream used so this is what I did - now my system is out of whack.

Any other suggestions?
Thanks.
Dec 31, 2012
 RE: Large Doses Help Con't
by: Anonymous

Also the only dairy I eat are eggs and avoid starchy vegetables and drink plenty of water. I drink my greens in a green smoothie (made with almond or rice milk) and eat other vegetables raw. But since I don't eat dairy, I will try to supplement with a little Vit D to see if this helps.

Purchasing 20 tubes is not an option - no one that I know uses or is interested in using the cream.

Thanks.
Dec 31, 2012
 RE Large Doses Help Cont 2
by: Anonymous

Sorry for the multiple posts; however, I keep re-reading your response to try and comprehend. So in other areas of the site low progesterone gives way to high estrogen - now you are saying that it could be high testosterone. Testosterone may cause acne but estrogen is responsible for the breast tenderness so my question is is it possible to have elevate levels of both testosterone and estrogen simultaneously? High estrogen also causes acne so I am trying to understand why you would point to testosterone instead of estrogen? Is there anything else that I've described that would point to high testosterone?

Thanks.
Jan 01, 2013
 RE: Large Doses Help
by: Wray

Hi there I don't think your system is out of whack by using the amount of progesterone you are. It's evident you did have high oestrogen, or you wouldn't have reacted as you did. As I you might have read in those comments I gave you, many women had to go even higher before finding relief. It isn't an easy route, and can take time for symptoms to abate. I do understand about the cost, so please try reducing as I suggested, no more than 1/2ml at a time. I'm a bit confused as you say your vitamin D levels are fine, but then say you will try to supplement with a little vitamin D. Do you know what your levels are? They should be 50ng/ml and above, better if they are in the 70-100ng/ml range. A little won't help, it has to be a minimum of 5000iu per day, and even that is only a maintenance dose. Please consider having a test done. You do eat exceptionally well, but are the almond and rice milk home made, or bought? As the bought variety does contain sugar or fructose. I'm not sure what age you are, but so many things can drop progesterone levels, which in turn allows both testosterone and oestrogen to rise...... Puberty, giving birth, neither of which you appear to have experienced recently. Plus large meals, sugars, insulin, dark days, winter too, phytoestrogens, oestrogen mimics in the environment. And of course Peri-menopause and Menopause due to anovulatory cycles or no ovulation at all. In fact the menopausal ovary is an androgen producing organ, see here. And our fat cells secrete oestrone, which in turn stimulates fat cells to proliferate, a vicious cycle, as they don't secrete progesterone at all, which would counter the excess oestrogen. Each month women make more testosterone than oestrogen, but most of it is converted to oestrogen by the enzyme aromatase, see the chart by Genova Diagnostics. The pathway follows....... Cholesterol → Pregnenolone → Progesterone → 17-OH-Progesterone → Androstenedione → Testosterone → Oestrone ⇄ Oestradiol → Oestriol (also Oestrone → Oestriol). So yes it is possible to have high levels of both hormones. But oestrogen doesn't initiate acne, testosterone does. Oestrogen is responsible for breast tenderness, but so is low iodine, and high prolactin. So maybe you are in P-M or menopause? Which would account for the high oestrogen and testosterone. Take care Wray
Jan 02, 2013
 RE: Large Doses Help Con't
by: Anonymous

I said I would supplement with additional Vit D because I am desperate at this point. I live in an area that gets over 300 days of sunshine per year and I do my workouts outside no matter what the weather so get plenty of Vit D from sunshine; as well as eating wild salmon and taking codliver oil (minimal). The almond/rice milk that I drink is organic, unsweetened with only 2mg of sugar per cup and I use only 1/2 a cup in my smoothies.

There is a lot of info in your responses but I am still wondering what is causing the severe acne breakouts I experience whenever I try to lower the dosage - even a little. That's the problem - I can lower at the amount/rate you suggest but even the slightest bit less and I experience horrible acne breakouts - this is what I need help with.

So does this point to my body needing more progesterone or ???


Thanks.
Jan 05, 2013
 RE Large Doses Help Cont 3
by: Anonymous

Hi - I used a bit more cream than usual one night and experienced major nausea. I usually apply the majority of cream at night and less in the morning so not sure if it was just too much progesterone at once or if that was a major increase in estrogen. Since I am already using a large dose I wondering what to do - slowly decrease or increase?

Thanks.
Jan 06, 2013
 RE: Large Doses Help Con't
by: Wray

Hi there It's only when you try reducing that you get the acne breakouts, so I don't think you need more progesterone. You say you live in an area which gets plenty of sunshine. But the only way of telling if you are getting enough to make vitamin D is to have a test done. We don't make vitamin D unless our shadow is shorter than we are. Which means during the hours 10am to 2pm, semi naked, for about 20minutes. The higher the latitude above the equator the longer the time is needed. But even in the tropics it's evident people don't get enough sun, see here. Dr Cannel replies to a query by a doctor in one of his newsletters "You may have a genetically determined predilection to low levels, that is, your body may break 25(OH)D down quickly or make it slowly. Do you shower with soap after you sunbathe? If so, you may be washing off the vitamin D-containing body oils (sebum)" Vitamin D does help acne too, see here, here, here, here and here. Please have a test done, as I can't think of anything else which could be causing it. Unless you are taking magnesium, as that can cause acne breakouts until the level is stable. It's the most important co-factor for vitamin D. You might like to see these comments here. Oily fish contains very little vitamin D, fish liver oil a bit, but this has too high a level of vitamin A which inhibits the uptake of vitamin D, see here, here, here and here. Take care Wray
Jan 08, 2013
 RE Large Doses Help Cont 3
by: Wray

Hi there I'm not sure why you decided to increase the progesterone, as I thought the 600mg/day you are using was helping. Nausea is caused by substance P, a nociceptive neuropeptide, see here and here. It suppresses progesterone if in excess, see here. The reverse is also the case, see here. The paper stating "Accumulating evidence indicates that the neuropeptide substance P is predominantly involved in neurogenic inflammation and pain perception...... Intriguingly, decreased pain sensitivity is found to be associated with high plasma progesterone levels. We hypothesize that progesterone may attenuate nociception and associated inflammatory response." Oestrogen stimulates substance P, see here. Adding the bit more progesterone stimulated oestrogen again, hence the nausea. If the 600mg/day is helping, I suggest reducing back to that slowly. Take care Wray
Feb 24, 2013
 RE Large Doses Help Cont 4
by: Anonymous

I reduced the amount of cream and then had to stop using completely for about 1 month because the order i placed on your site did not ship on-time and was delayed 3 weeks.

I feel fine and less tired than when using the cream and surprisingly minimal acne - but a big drawback is now I am experiencing hair loss. I have never had a problem with hair loss (or acne) prior to using progesterone cream.

My question is do I begin to use the cream again and if so in what dose? At this point I am confused, frustrated, and regretting even beginning to use this product at all.

I am a model so the acne and hair loss are affecting my ability to win work. An honest, and sincere response would be appreciated.

By the way had tests done and my Vit D levels are fine; actually a bit high.

Thank you.
Feb 25, 2013
 RE Large Doses Help Cont 4
by: Wray

Hi there I was really taken aback by your 'An honest, and sincere response would be appreciated.' I've never at any time been less than honest and sincere. I've given you copious papers to read, made many suggestions. But it's impossible for me to know the background of everyone. I agree something has upset your balance, but I'm at a loss as to what it could be. At no point in the post have you told me why you started the progesterone. My error in not asking you. I did suggest peri-menopause or menopause comes with it's own problems, but you have never given me your age. I know models within this age group, so maybe you are too. I have to assume when you say your vitamin D levels are 'fine', that they are between 70 to 100mg/ml, and not the 'adequate' levels given by the FDA or NHS. There is another site you could look at for acne, and that's Dr Cordain's, he's studied it at length, see The Paleo Diet. We do have a page on Hair Loss which explains why it occurs. The page lists many nutrients which can help. Maybe you could try these and not use the progesterone. At no time do I force a person to use progesterone, the decision is theirs. I can only give advice based on the studies done with it. Take care Wray
Feb 28, 2013
 Large Doses Help
by: Joy

I too am shocked at this comment "an honest and sincere response would be appreciated". I have never met a person who is more honest and sincere as Wray. She gives her life to helping people and providing information that is honest and sincere. She always provides material to back up her replies. Perhaps the back up material is not read by the person asking for help.

I note that a Vitamin D result has still not been given despite Wray asking for the level numerous times.

How can one expect to be helped if they do not do as suggested. A low level of Vitamin D certainly affects so many things. I also live in a sunny country and my level was also low. Please don't be fooled into thinking that sunny countries provide enough Vitamin D, they certainly don't. Perhaps if one sat in the sun all day, every day with absolutely no clothing on, then MAYBE that would be sufficient.

Thank you Wray for ALWAYS being sincere and honest. There are a lot of people out there who are so grateful for the time and information that you provide them.
Mar 01, 2013
 Large Doses Help
by: Wray

Hi Joy Bless you for your support! It was very welcome, as the above post left me feeling very disheartened. Take care Wray

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