Help me Wray

Hi Wray, I'm 39 and was on the birth control on and off for 15 years. I have had 3 girls my last being 3 months premature. I felt horrible after I had her.

I started the cream in January and got very sick. I had to up the dose to 600-800 milligrams to get some relief. I do feel better Wray but I started to get red and inflamed around my vagina area. Just wondering if I'm taking too much and should I cut back now? How long have woman been on high amounts before they level out?

I have had regular cycle with a little heavier bleeding since taking the cream, the last period had heavier clotting. If I as level would I still be getting blood clots. Can you get blood clots taking too much progesterone? I'm confused Wray and feel very overwhelmed. Thanks for your time.

Comments for
Help me Wray

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May 25, 2011
 Atrophy/Vaginal Progesterone - feeling better after Wray's advice
by: Julia UK

Just wanted to say I was suffering from vaginal atrophy and a slight bladder prolapse (am 57). I had a hysteroscopy and was prescribed Vagifem. I also tried Ovestin. Both made me ill with stomach cramps, recurrence of IBS, constipation, back ache and generally feeling like I had PMS (haven't had a period for years. Wray suggested using Natpro vaginally at least once a day and hey ho great success. I now can have pain free sex and my urine continence has improved. This is after a few months of using it this way. I use an applicator I had with Replens for vaginal moisture and put a quarter to half a teaspoon in. There is always a small bit left in the tube but generally manage to scrape the residual out and use it on skin. I know there were a few questions about vaginal insertion and 'how to' and I just hope this helps someone!
May 25, 2011
 Also
by: Anonymous

By the way Wray, I didn't mentioned this before if I try lowering the dose to 300-400 I'm completely sick. I mean can't function and honestly I can say, since I have been on the cream I have not reached a symptom free level by all means. So in conclusion I will continue on your theory which by far seems to work. Also when I first started the cream I was on very low amounts 40 milligrams, that just about put me in a mental hospital. Take care.
May 26, 2011
 When to lower your dose
by: Eve

I feel your pain. I was on BCP for 20 years. When I came off due to having severe hormonal problems, my life turned upside down. My body was so confused and deficient. The domino effect of health ailments were falling down faster than I pick them up. The solution for me to find a livable spot was to take high doses - starting around 200 and eventually getting as high as 600-900 mg and sometimes I went higher if I felt horrible. I was on a high doses for about a year because my symptoms were so severe. The only alternative at the time was to just check out completely :-( I have recently started taking my dose down (slowly)and so far no reoccurances of the symptoms. But before you start reducing I think you must hit a point of stabalization. That is where I was when I decided i would venture to lower doses. However, part of the side effects of long term use of BCP is that your body is deficient in minerals and vitamins. Minerals are essential to your body. They assist and aid hormone function amongst a million other things. I believe in order to achieve optimal progesterone levels you will need some mineral/vitamin support. I recommend starting with cell salts (a.k.a. tissue salts or Schueller salts). You can order them online (Hyland is the brand I use) and also research for yourself how they work. I would strongly suggest taking Vit D5000K, Vit C 3000 (min), Magnesium (as mag aspartate, glyycinate and gluconate) (300mg) and a good multi (not one you buy at the grocery store). I found after adding the cell salts, i was able to come off thyroid meds (yay!!) and also lower my progesterone. I have lowered down to approx 200mg and i am trying to follow my cycle (if it will hold a pattern??). I am not taking progesterone everyday like I used to which is a complete miracle! I also started applying Nat Pro diret to my labia -it works wonderfully for me! It was a long road for me. I think you shave off some trial and error if you keep good records and keep referring back to this blog for some great testament of trial and errors. Wishing you hormonal balance! Peace ~ Eve
May 26, 2011
 Thank you Eve with all of my heart.
by: Anonymous

Hi Eve you made my day. I was worried about taking high doses and you don't see too many woman on this blog taking high doses so I'm glad you shared your story. It is horrific what BCP has done, isn't it. I'm on everything you suggested but the cell salts. What is the name specifically, is it the hyland bioplasma cell salts you take and how much do you take? Can you tell me the specific name of them?
I'm so happy to hear how well you are doing and now I have more peace about the high doses. Really thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing, I was getting worried about the dosage, there is great controversy about dosage. Take care my friend.
Jun 03, 2011
 Help me Wray
by: Wray

Hi there All Contraceptives have the potential to cause adverse side effects. The prem baby was due to falling progesterone levels, please see our page on Pregnancy. There are many studies on the page showing how progesterone has been used successfully to stop this occurring. You say you felt horrible after having her, I'm assuming you had post natal depression? This is caused by a severe drop in progesterone levels, so it doesn't surprise me you had to use 600-800mg/day to get relief. Dr Dalton would give her patients up to 2400mg/day, see here. Progesterone is a potent anti-inflammatory, so won't have caused the inflamed vagina. This can be caused by a number of things, one is an infection, have you had it checked out? Have you tried using some cream in your vagina, a finger or syringe can be used to apply it. If I'm right about the PND, there are a number of nutrients which help, besides progesterone. Please see our page on Anxiety. We are all so different, the time needed to level out varies considerably, so I can't tell you. But if you consider taking the anti-anxiety nutrients too, I feel you could start reducing the amount you're using without feeling sick. And yes, 40mg/day would have been the right amount to make you feel mental! Progesterone doesn't cause clots, whether in the uterus or the blood. It prevents platelets aggregating, reduces thrombin by about 15%, so reducing clotting, it prevents lipid peroxidation and atherosclerosis. The clots are caused by oestrogen, your lining has built up over the preceding months, but not all of it has come away when you bleed. Using such a high amount of progesterone would effectively remove all the clots that had formed. It's the drop in progesterone which causes us to bleed. I'm running out of space, so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray
Jun 03, 2011
 Help me Wray
by: Wray

Hi there MMP's are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle. Oestrogen stimulates MMP's. Progesterone suppresses both MMP's and oestrogen. It's only when progesterone levels drop at the end of the cycle that the MMP?s can get to work and break down the lining causing our monthly bleed, see here and here. I feel you are short of vitamin D, this is vital for pregnancy, plus it's needed to prevent depression, assuming I'm correct about this. Furthermore a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. Please have a test done. For more info see the Vitamin D council and GrassrootsHealth websites. If I'm right and you are short, please make sure you take a minimum of 5000iu's per day. And the blood level should be between 70-100ng/ml, and not the 30ng/ml the labs use as a reference. Take care Wray
Jun 03, 2011
 Atrophy/Vaginal Progesterone - feeling better after Wray's advice
by: Wray

Hi Julia So good having this feedback, many thanks! Take care Wray
Jun 03, 2011
 When to lower your dose
by: Wray

Hi Eve Many thanks for this feedback too! It does help others knowing they are not alone. It's all very well me giving the studies on high amounts, but coming from a user it makes such a difference. It is essential to stabilise first, and to reduce slowly too. And the BCP does reduce minerals, and in particular the B vits. Vitamin D is another essential as it works with progesterone, most of us have low levels anyway. Take care Wray
Jun 03, 2011
 anti anxiety
by: To Wray from Annette

Wray what would you recommend for anti-anxiety, I have trouble mentally, focusing, some anxiety and very mild depression. I think the depression is more so from not feeling well. This is what I'm on 3000 IU vitamin d, good multi, magsmart, dandelion for detoxing my liver, probiotics, you also recommended calcium d-glucarate on another post. Your a gem. Plus I started those cell salts.
Jun 03, 2011
 Urinary Tract Infections
by: To Wray From Annette

Sorry to bug you again Wray but I have had 2 urinary tract infections in the last month, is this normal? Maybe it's because of the high doses. I'm on antibiotics so can I still take probiotics as well. I'm so tired of this Wray. What can I take as a preventive and will they eventually stop. Do other women get UTI's being on the cream? HELP
Jun 06, 2011
 Cell Salts/Progesterone
by: Eve

Hi Julia, Julia - you are not alone! I am happy to share my experiences in effort to help anyone who is suffering. The cell salt brand that I use is Hyland. Bioplasma is a multi of all 12 cell salts. I personally have each one as an individual salt. I started with Nerve Tonic (also by Hyland). BTW - this is a great one for anxiety and stress as Annette was asking for some additional help. It is a blend of 5 of the cell salts and I took this religiously multiple times a day (sometimes 7-8 times). I still continue to take Nerve Tonic every day as well as I have expanded into other cell salts. Since then I have read that Kali Sulph (Schueller salt #7) is used for those experiencing excess estrogen. Hopefully this will give you somewhere to start. I do recommend researching your symptoms and from that research you will be able to fine tune what your body needs. I would gather that just about the entire population is deficient in tissue salts based on our lifestyle and environment. There is a great book "Facial Diagnosis of Cell Salt Deficiencies" by David Card. I recently purchased it and am studying it with much vigor. Wishing you all the best on your journey towards health and balance Peace ~ Eve
Jun 10, 2011
 anti anxiety and UTI's
by: Wray

Hi Annette We do have a page on Anxiety, please read through it, as it lists nutrients which all help with anxiety. It seems you could do with more vitamin D, please have a test done. A lack of this nutrient causes anxiety/depression, plus it reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more info see the Vitamin D council and GrassrootsHealth websites. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, and the blood level should be between 70-100ng/ml. And not the 30ng/ml the labs use as a reference point. The UTI's are probably caused by the progesterone stimulating oestrogen, this is an inflammatory hormone. I'm not sure how much you're using, but it should be 100-200mg/day, sometimes more. Eve posted another comment you might like to read here. She was using very high amounts as you'll see, and is now able to reduce the amount. Have you tried d-mannose for the UTI, it has helped some women? The amino acid arginine can help too, see here. Mast cells are implicated, see here. Progesterone inhibits mast cell secretions, see here. It's a pity you're on the antibiiotics, as they cause a vicous cycle. Once you've stopped them, the infection can come back, so more are then given. It's essential to take the probiotics, but they must be taken a few hours away from the antibiotics, which will only kill them. I've found a combo of vitamin C and bicarb works well, the ratio should be 1 bicarb to 2.75 vitamin C. This gives a delicious fizzy drink, which should be taken 3 times a day until the infection clears. So if you mix 1 tsp bicarb with 2.75 tsp vitamin C, this would be enough for one day. If there's insufficient vitamin C the drink is very bitter due to the bicarb. Don't mix up too much, as they react with only air moisture and it won't work. You don't say you have Candida, but please read through this page too. You'll notice how beneficial progesterone is if it's present. I've no idea if it will help, but caprylic acid which kills candida, is also effective against other pathogens. The oil is more effective than the tabs. It would certainly be worth trying, it's wonderful for the skin too, which is why it?s the oil we use in Natpro. Take care Wray
Jun 10, 2011
 Cell Salts/Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Eve Thanks again for your wonderful info! Take care Wray
Feb 01, 2012
 Eve I want to talk with you
by: Annette Hromek

Eve anyway I can speak with you via email or by phone? Thanks Annette
Feb 01, 2012
 Re: High doses of progesterone
by: Eve

Hi Annette, yes you can contact me at...

Hi Eve Thanks for the quick reply, as I know Annette seems desperate to speak to you. I don't like publishing emails on the site, as it invites spam. But I have sent your address to Joy who is in contact with Annette. Take care Wray
Feb 02, 2012
 Thanks Wray
by: Eve

Thanks much appreciated!
Feb 03, 2012
 hello eve
by: Annette

Hello Eve I had sent a few e-mails to you just wondering if you had received them. I'm anxiously awaiting to talk with you? =-)
Feb 04, 2012
 Annette
by: Eve

I am happy to talk to you. I am not getting your emails. Can you double check with Wray for my email address. I sent myself a test message to make sure eveything is ok and it came through fine.


Wray would you so kindly edit this message and take out the email address.....

Hi Eve I will give it again to Joy, to send to Annette, in case I've made an error, although I did copy and paste it. Take care Wray
Feb 05, 2012
 Eve / Annette
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Eve and Annette - Problem solved, I had the incorrect address. I have forwarded you both an email. Please let me know that it has been received.
Take care.
Joy
Feb 15, 2012
 Severe Headache
by: Carolyn

This will be my 4th attempt at Natural Progesterone cream, i so want to take it as i know it will be benefical for me but,,,each time i have stopped as i can not bear the most severe headaches i get when i have a few days break.

I have not had a period for 6 years i am now 54years.

Any ideas on how i can overcome this.

Regards
Carolyn
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe Headache
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn Yes it's very simple! Ignore all the daft instructions about taking a break, and use it daily. You have no cycle to worry about as you're in Menopause. I've used it every day for 15 years now, even when I had regular cycles in the last couple of years of Peri-menopause. Each time I stopped when bleeding began, all my symptoms came back, so I thought be damned to that, I'll use it daily, and have ever since. It's very evident when you take the break and symptoms return that you have excess oestrogen. So please don't put yourself through all that agony for nothing. I do recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. So you'll have to experiment with the amount that suits. Take care Wray
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Carolyn - headaches are a sign that you are estrogen dominant. If you type estrogen dominance in the Google search bar on this site you will find so much information on it. How much cream are you using? Do make sure that the cream that you are using contains the correct amount of progesterone otherwise it will not work or it will take much longer.
You are 56, have not had a period in 6 years so you are in menopause therefore progesterone should be used every day with no stopping and is perfectly safe to do so. I have been using it for nearly 6 years without stopping and I know that others have used it longer.
Progesterone is excellent for headaches and migraines as it is a potent anti-inflammatory. Rub about half a teaspoon of cream on the back of your neck and up the sides of your temples. That should help greatly.
I highly recommend that you use progesterone every day with not stopping.

Hope this helps.
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe headaches
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray,Joy:
I really appreciate your comments and they certainly make me feel more poitive.
I use 1/8th of a tsp of cream on either my bust stomach or bottom am and pm,,does that sound ok.
The main reason i am so keen to use it is mainly due to the fact it massively reduces my sweet tooth,,in fact i have no sugar craving at all whilst i am using it,,hence it helps my weight...
My menopause symptoms are controlled by Citrolopram(anti depressant)as when i came off them my sweats came back with a vengance..
Regards
Carolyn
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe headaches
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn If you use only 1/8th tsp, and it's probably got no more than 16mg per ml of cream, you're getting no more than 10mg/day. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I recommend 10-20 times that amount! Hot flushes need about 400mg/day or more, but they will go, never to return. There's no need for any antidepressant. Once the hot flushes are under control, the amount should be reduced very slowly, by no more than 16mg per reduction. Staying on the reduced amount for a few days before reducing further. I still use about 170mg/day, varying the amount as and when needed. Stress drops levels so I use more when stressed. Oestrogen disturbs blood glucose, in fact it's one of the causes of Insulin Resistance. Whereas progesterone, by suppressing oestrogen prevents the disturbance. Progesterone also reduces glycerol levels in the blood. You could be short of vitamin D, as this also disturbs blood glucose, leading to insulin resistance. It's also a potent anti-inflammatory. Please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. As Joy says, progesterone is excellent for headaches, see here, here, here, here, here and here. A lack of vitamin D is also implicated in migraines, see here, here and here. Take care Wray
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Carolyn - Oh dear you are not using anywhere near the amount of progesterone that is required! An 1/8 of a teaspoon is merely aggravating the situation. Nothing less than 100mg - 6ml or a heaped teaspoon should be used. More cream is often needed depending on how severe the symptom is, normally anything from 200mg to 400mg will help hot flushes. The cream should also be used twice a day to keep the progesterone level stable. It can also be used during the day should you feel a hot flush coming on.

I am rather dismayed that you have been given an anti depressant to help your hot flushes, this is only making the situation worse! You really do not need them. By using the correct amount of progesterone and making it the dominant hormone your hot flushes will be gone in no time and you will begin to feel much better. I have not had a hot flush in over 5 years now!!!

The cream (Natpro) can be used anywhere on the body, I even use it on my tongue as it helps with a burning sensation that I have.

Take care.
Feb 16, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray,
Thanks you very much for your prompt reply.
Before i start to use an increased amount of cream could you please confirm i have picked you up properly..my NPG states 1/8th tsp am pm (Serenity).I was recommened this cream by a herbalist and she described it as a pea sized amount? She also has starting using Napto so that is what i will be using when this one is finished.Could you also explain why the headache is so severe when you are having a break from progesterone during the month when i rarely suffer from headaches.I am very pleased that you have said i no longer need the break because that was the only adverse reaction i was getting, other than that i felt wonderful.
I was also advised to use Natural phyto-estrogen cream for bad hot flushes,,but only to be used if i was on progesterone aswell?
Regards

Carolyn
Feb 18, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray, Joy,

Firstly i must thank you both for your immedaite reply's, it feels good to know there is support out there:
Today is a much better day than the day before,,my headache was dreadful but i took your advise and immediatly increased the dose.
I will continue with the increased amount and am confident that this is a new start for me.
The cirolopram were given as an alternative to HRT and to be honest do keep my hot flushes at bay,,however i now feel confident that i will be able to slowly withdraw from them also.
One final question, how long do you think it may take to feel totally happy with NPG without thinking are there any other side effects around the corner.
Regards
Carolyn
Feb 19, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn I wasn't far wrong in my estimate, the cream you are currently using contains 21mg/ml of cream. Which means 1/8th tsp will give you 13mg progesterone, used twice a day and you'll get 26mg. So If you do want to get rid of the hot flushes, you'll have to use 19ml of cream per day, or 3.8tsp! You might like to read this page here. It is long, but gives you an idea of what the low amount does. Stopping the progesterone allows oestrogen to rise again. Oestrogen is an excitatory, inflammatory hormone, hence the headaches. I don't believe any oestrogen is needed, even natural oestrogen, they all have the same effect. For more info see our page on HRT. And how long?!?! I wish I could tell you. It's evident you have excess oestrogen, high amounts of progesterone are needed to suppress it. The lower the amount used the longer it will take. Hence my advice to use high amounts. If you want advice on lowering the cirolopram, please see our page on Natural Antidepressants Do let us know how you get on. Take care Wray
Feb 24, 2012
 Severe Headache
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray,

So far so good,,any minor headaches i have had have been held at bay by using progesterone.

I am really suffering badly with night sweats,,are these a good sign that it is my body adjusting accordingly,,i hope so as i so want to stay on the progesterone cream as long as i need it. I have read so many reports on the benefits and understand a lot more on how beneficial the cream can be.
PS also no chocolate for a week, and i have not even had any cravings,,may have a treat at the weekend...

Regards

Carolyn
Feb 25, 2012
 Severe Headache
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn So pleased the headaches are being kept at bay! You don't say how much progesterone you're now using, but I've found 400mg/day or more is needed to stop any Hot Flushes or night sweats. This page gives info on what possibly causes them, and what else can be done. Interesting you say the cravings have gone too, progesterone does that, I'm so pleased. Take care Wray
Feb 25, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Joy (South Africa)

Yahoo Carolyn - so happy that the headaches have gone. Stick with it and up your dose to 400mg as Wray's suggests and before long, your hot flushes will be a thing in the past too.

Good luck.
Feb 25, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Carolyn

Hi Wray,

Thanks again for your prompt reply.
I will increase the amount and i'm confident i can lose my Hot Flushes once i get the balance correct.
The hot flushes have only returned since i started using the cream, having read your comments on Hot Flushes i now understand why.
I will keep in touch,,but i am feeling so good already..

Regards
Carolyn
Feb 26, 2012
 Severe Headaches
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn So relieved about this! And please let us know, I see Joy is delighted too. As we've both had hot flushes we empathise with you. Take care Wray

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