Warning: get your hormone levels checked first

by Sam
(Uk)

Hi there

I have been using emerita progest natural progesterone cream for 6 months due to painful periods and bad pms, I am 36. I have just had a saliva hormone profile (saliva sample taken every 3 days over a month) done via Dr Myhills website and my progesterone levels are through the roof!

I highly recommend that you have this test done to check you are using the right amount and Indeed if you need it at all. I now have to withdraw and try to rebalance my oestrogen (at practically zero) and my testerone which is just registering.

Please be careful, unregulated use may be harmful. Get the graphs and data for your personal hormones and act on facts. I learned this the hard way!

Good luck. Sam

Comments for Warning: get your hormone levels checked first

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Aug 26, 2012
Warning:get your homone levels checked first
by: Anonymous

If your oestrogen is at zero then you are one rare person!! I have been fighting my oestrogen levels for years! However, I wanted to comment that one time I had the saliva tests for hormones instead of blood draw and my doctor told me that my progesterone levels were thru the roof but I re checked by a blood draw and the were normal! Even with taking 200mg of progesterone a day this is the micronized cream form, my levels are still normal but very low and o estrogen very high, if I don't take at least that amount! Everyone is different, but I would re check with a blood draw.

Aug 26, 2012
Warning: get your hormone levels checked first
by:

Hello,
I would be curious as to your exact readings if you don't mind posting them. Also, did your initial complaints of pain and pms subside while on the cream? My thoughts are that you must still be having some sort of difficulty if you were reading and searching on this website. On the other hand, I'm wondering if it doesn't matter that progesterone was high if your symptoms cleared up while using the cream. Maybe that is how your body works to gain the relief you were seeking. God Bless!

Aug 27, 2012
Warning: get your hormone levels checked first
by: Wray

Hi Sam I'm not sure who the warning is for, as you've submitted this on a new page. I do hope the progesterone helped you, this is the reason for using it. I can't agree about progesterone levels being through the roof, it's not the amount that's critical, but the ratio of the two hormones. We've found from Saliva Tests a naturopath runs for us periodically, that the ratio should be 600:1 and over to feel well. You might like to look at the before and after results to see how high the level goes. The important fact was she found all her patients were feeling well, in fact her own ratio was 800:1. Take care Wray

Aug 27, 2012
Get your hormone levels checked first
by: Carol K

I do not believe that all Progesterone creams are equal so your statement is unlikely to refer to Natpro. As our hormone levels fluctuate all the time, I do not believe that having one test is going to give you a true profile and besides, surely it is more about how you are feeling? I use quite a high dose of Natpro and feel great. If I reduce it, I don't feel great. There is my answer, not some test.I suggest you switch to Natpro and then I am sure Wray can advise you on her product.

Aug 30, 2012
Get your hormone levels checked first
by: Wray

Hi Carol Bless you for your support! You are right, it's not the amount of the hormone, but how well is the individual feeling. And of course the ratios should always be taken into account, and they rarely are. Take care Wray

Aug 30, 2012
Warning:get your homone levels checked first
by: Wray

Hi there It is a rare woman who's oestrogen is at zero. We continue secreting it from our fat cells to the day we die. This is the menopause oestrogen, known as oestrone, just as potent as oestradiol the pre-menopause oestrogen. But it's never checked, even in menopausal women, it's always oestradiol that's checked, which gives the wrong impression. Take care Wray

Aug 30, 2012
Warning: get your hormone levels checked first
by: Wray

Hi there I would be interested in learning of the levels too, as I said to Sam it's not the levels but the ratio which should be looked at. As you say, above all is the person feeling well, that's the whole point of using progesterone. Take care Wray

Aug 30, 2012
Results
by: Sam

Hi there, I was having really really painful periods, mood swings, hot sweats... My acupuncturist reccomended natural progesterone... I googled it and found emerita.

I started to feel worse after 5 months of taking it... Groin pain, dizzy, nausea, emotional.... Hence I had a full months saliva test...

Luteal progesterone 0.0
Total oestradial 21.0
Progesterone: oestradial 1893.3
Testosterone 26.3

Doctor advised to stop cream. I was feeling worse on the cream, any thoughts? Thanks everyone it's been hell!

Sep 01, 2012
Results
by: Wray

Hi Sam Thanks for coming back to us, as I'm sure everyone will have good advice for you. I would have to know a few more facts before I could. For instance how much progesterone were you using? If it's as I suspect about 20mg/day, possibly 40mg/day, then it's no wonder you feel awful. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. For instance Hot Flushes need at least 400mg/day to relieve them. The panful periods would probably respond to this level too, possibly less. The high amount would also take care of the mood swings too. Unfortunately I can't interpret your results. But, I'm taking a guess, because you live in the UK, the results were given in pmol/L? Secondly no one can have 0.0pmol/L progesterone, even if we're not ovulating the brain, glial cells and adrenals make it. 'Luteal' progesterone means nothing either. Yes we do secrete progesterone during our luteal phase if ovulating, but it cannot be separated from the other sources, so to use it as a term is meaningless. And I don't know what the.."Progesterone: oestradial 1893.3" means. It appears to be a ratio between the two, but dividing the 21.0 nmol/L oestradiol into 0.0, leaves you with 0.0!! Originally you said your oestradiol was 'practically zero', but '21.0', whether it's in pg/ml or pmol/L is off the chart. And if your testosterone was measured in pmol/L it's off the charts too. We do have a page on Hormone Testing you could look through. Please come back to me with all the queries I've made. Take care Wray

Sep 16, 2012
Dr. Mercola writes about this
by: Anonymous

Dr. Mercola writes about progesterone levels possibly going through the roof after a prolonged period of transdermal application, because progesterone is stored in the fatty tissues under the skin. He thinks sublingual drops are ideal, but no longer makes them, because of impending FDA rules. Second best, he writes, is vaginal application for women (and in the anus for men). Interesting!

Sep 16, 2012
Full results
by: Sam uk

Hi Wray, happy to email you my test results then you can see them in their entirety. Do you have an email address I could use? I can't post attachments on here.

I was only using it for 5/6 months 7 days off after period arrived, then 1/4 teaspoon and then 1/2 teaspoon from day 21 to 28.

Thanks so much for your advice.

Sam

Sep 16, 2012
Dr. Mercola writes about this
by: Wray

Hi there I do know of Dr Mercola's views, but can't agree with them. In fact there are so many Progesterone Misconceptions that I did this page on them. It is my take on it of course, but I have given papers to back up my arguments. The whole point in using progesterone is to feel well, so as Carol says above, it's not so much about the level, even if they're through the roof, but is the person feeling well. I gave Sam the results of saliva tests we run, you might like to look through them. The naturopath who does them for us has been prescribing Natpro for 15 years now. I'm sure she would have stopped her patients using it if she found it was stored in fat, or that they did not benefit from it. Take care Wray

Sep 16, 2012
Full results
by: Wray

Hi Sam We do have one, if you don't mind a rather convoluted way of getting it to me. Please go to this page here. Fill in the requested details. Then an email will be sent back to you acknowledging receipt of yours, to which you can attach the results! And it's as I thought, 1/4tsp will be giving you 20mg/day, the 1/2tsp 40mg/day. I'm really puzzled why they told you to use it 7 days after the first day of bleeding. If you have a regular cycle, and don't have bad symptoms during your follicular phase, then progesterone should always be used during the luteal phase. i.e. from ovulation to bleeding. A normal luteal phase is always, in all women 12-14 days long. The ovaries make no progesterone during the follicular phase, except the last 50 hours, when it rises exponentially. This surge comes from the brain, and has nothing to do with that from the corpus luteum, which only begins secreting it once ovulation as taken place, see here, here, here and here. Progesterone does help PMS and period cramps, in fact rubbing it over the tummy helps best. Although it travels rapidly around the body, I've found if rubbed directly on any painful area it works quicker. This also applies to burns, minor wounds, piles etc. It's the best thing I've ever found for burns. If you wish to continue with the progesterone, please use much more. And look through our page on How to use progesterone cream. For encouragement you might like to read these pages here and here. Continued below.

Sep 16, 2012
Full results Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Sam As you live in the UK please have a vitamin D test, most people living there have very low levels. This reduces the benefits of progesterone, in fact I did a page on Progesterone and Vitamin D as I found the synergy so fascinating. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Birmingham Hospital send out test kits for £25 and the results back by email. But ignore their 'adequate' level, far too low! Take care Wray

Sep 16, 2012
Full results
by: Sam UK

Hi Wray,

My results in full... to hopefully clear up the UK/US translation...

Follicular Phase
Progesterone Oestradiol
10-100 pg/ml 2-5pg/ml
Sample 1 3440.5 1.4
Sample 2 319.4 1.1
Sample 3 >4000 1.4
Sample 4 >4000 2.6
Sample 5 >4000 3.0
Sample 6 >4000 1.8
Sample 7 >4000 1.7
Sample 8 >4000 2.4
Sample 9 >4000 2.6
Sample 10 >4000 1.6
Sample 11 VOID VOID
Sample 12 >4000 1.4

Luteal Progesterone Output
Reference Range Units 500 - 1300 pg/ml
MINE = 0.0

Total Oestradiol Output
Reference Range Units 35 - 70 pg/ml
MINE = 21.0

Progesterone : Oestradiol
Reference Range Units 10 - 40 Ratio
MINE = 1893.3

Testosterone (Female)
Reference Range Units 20 - 70 pg/ml

Luteal Progesterone Surge occured on Day : None

Length of luteal Phase in Days : 0 Optimal >= 11 Day's

Oestradiol Pre Ovulatory Peak Day : 12

Oestradiol Peak to Luteal Surge : 0 Optimal <=4 Day's


Hope this makes sense to someone???

Cheers,
Sam





Sep 16, 2012
Full results
by: Wray

Hi Sam Well you have gone to a great deal of trouble, thanks! Unfortunately there are still some anomalies, some very strange. The lab has used the US measurement pg/ml, not the usual pmol/L or nmol/L normally used in the UK, see here. Although having said that the lab we use in the UK uses pg/ml! But the range they've given you is very odd....
Progesterone 10-100 pg/ml Oestradiol 2-5pg/ml
Medline
(Progesterone)
gives a very different range, only in ng/ml or pg/ml. Wiki too see here. Wiki gives both the ng/ml and the nmol/L, so too does Keratin.com During the luteal phase the range is 5 to 20 ng/ml. Your lab says the range is 10-100pg/ml, a pg is 1000 times smaller than a ng. To convert you arrive at 0.01 to 0.1 pg/ml! But then further down is says.... Reference Range Units 500 - 1300 pg/ml, so now I'm really confused! It lists progesterone, which presumably were all the tests you had done, one each day, from 319.4 to >4000, but under the 'Luteal Progesterone Output' you have written... MINE = 0.0. Your oestradiol ranges are also odd to me, see Medline Oestradiol and the Keratin.com page above gives it too. This you give as.... MINE = 21.0. So if we ignore the progesterone as 0.0, and use the 4000pg/ml as the upper figure, and take the 21.0pg/ml for the oestradiol, then your ratio is 190:1. If the oestradiol figures opposite the progesterone are used, then your ratio varies between 290:1 to 1333:1 right up to 2857:1. Maybe they took the average. If you look on our saliva test page you'll see levels up to 3000pg/ml for progesterone, although I have seen higher levels on others we have. So really all that leaves us no better off! Except for your symptoms, which you say are worse. Which they would be using the 20mg/day, up to 40mg/day. I do know your PMS and cramps will be helped, but have to leave it to you to decide if you wish to continue with it on a much higher amount. And ignore what level that will take your progesterone to. Take care Wray

Sep 16, 2012
Vitamin D
by: Sam

Hi there,

You are absolutely right - my Vitamin D level is 73, Calcium 2.08 - which i think adds to the cramping as my level is too low. Feritin is 36, Folate 12.9 and B12 is 550.

I'm now taking calcium and Vitamin D supplements including magnesium.

Its a cocktail of all these elements that you have to get right to feel well.

Thanks again for your support.
Sam

Sep 17, 2012
Vitamin D
by: Wray

Hi Sam It is low, although above the 'adequate' level the NHS gives. Please make sure you take at least 5000iu's per day. We don't begin storing it until levels reach 100nmol/L, and only when it reaches 125nmol/L do we have any left over to use. And your calcium too, unusual as most people have too much, and not enough magnesium. This is the most important co-factor for vitamin D, plus zinc, boron and vitamin K. If vitamin D is high enough it will absorb more calcium from the gut. Thanks for letting me know. Take care Wray

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