kathy/katseyes (All new to this!!!)

by kathy
(canada)

i just received my Natpro and am totally confused and frustrated around dosage and the whole cycle stuff..not sure how much to apply - i am in perimenopasue mild to moderate symptoms states 100-200mg per day and 1 tube contains 2000mg i am without a period now for almost 2 months. It says 1 tube should last 30 days so how do i make it last 30 days ?? How much is 100mg as a tsp application and if iuse that much per day how long will it last me??? I read the leaflet with my order and page about application and i am even more confused than before..math is like a foreign language to me?? i really need help so can anyone advise me on this since we are supposed to receive support and advise etc....going crazy!! please help!!

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Oct 18, 2012
kathy/katseyes (All new to this!!!)
by: Wray

Hi Kathy I can't believe this frantic query of yours. I've helped you endlessly over the past few days, why start a new page now? I pointed out to you I had no help when I started progesterone, none at all, as there was no one around who knew anything about it. I was in a terrible state too, with endless crying, hugely depressed and more. We have countless pages on our site to help you, plus a search field on every page, top left. We have a page on How to use progesterone cream and Peri-menopause, both of which I've given you. At the bottom of the 'How to' page is a chart giving all the measurements in ml, tsp, mg and how long a tube will last too. I can't give you more info than I have. It really is trial and error too, please read those links I gave you about other women and their struggles. You'll see it's not plain sailing, it's not a quick fix, and enough has to be used. Please read those pages I gave you. Take care Wray

Oct 18, 2012
cont'd
by: Anonymous

Sorry Wray
I don't mean to be frantic with my queries..just feeling really off and cannot help it with all that has gone on in the past several weeks. I honestly don't underatand the charts on the how to use page so all i wanted to know was if i use 100 mg a day to start how much would that be as a tsp and if it would last 30 days if i started with that much and if i started with less than that amount would it last me as i cannot afford another tube and don't want to run out in 2 weeks and get worse. Yes i am scared one because i am sick right now and my mental health has declined especially since taking the MAP. I apologize for the ranting I just don't know what to do or when!!
Thank-you
kathy

Oct 19, 2012
cont'd
by: Wray

Hi Kathy Wow you are in a bad way! I thought the chart gave all the necessary measurements, and was clear too. 100mg/day is 3ml of cream or 3/5th tsp. I prefer to use ml as it's so much simpler, ml spoons are available too. But I'm concerned as 100mg/day is not going to touch sides with you. That's why I suggested you combined it with the Prometrium, giving you a total of 300mg/day. This is the barest minimum I think you need. If you used 100mg/day the tube would last you 20 days, as there are 2000mg progesterone per tube. As I said on your other page, I feel you should use it daily, ignoring any bleeding, for about 2-3 months to get your level up. If you stop for your period, it allows oestrogen to rise again, and then adverse the symptoms come back. Don't forget to look at the nutrients on the Anxiety page, as they can help you too. Take care Wray

Oct 19, 2012
how much to use
by: Casey

If I were you, I would use at least 2 tsp. a day which I believe is about 300 mg. The tube will not last a month at this rate but you need to build you progesterone levels. Unfortunately, this is not cheap but for me the benefits hugely out way the cost. I find other ways to cut costs in order for me to be able to afford the wonderful product. I don't believe I would still alive if it weren't for Wray and natural progesterone. It is totally trial and error for each person. You have to experiment and find what works best for you. Don't give up...keep fighting for your health. You are worth it! Take care, Casey

Oct 19, 2012
I understand your confusion
by: Irina

Hi Kathy,
I agree with you – the tube of Natpro DOES NOT last minimum 30 days, as they say on this site. The amount Wray suggests for perimenopausal women is not less than 100 mg – about half a teaspoon; increase the dose with severe symptoms. And a tube contains 12 teaspoons. Even a schoolboy can figure out that if to use half a tsp twice a day it will last for 12 DAYS ONLY. What 30 days?! What are they talking about?! They mislead people saying “minimum 30 days”. You need AT LEAST 2 tubes a month. And with severe symptoms you will need yet more, maybe 4 tubes a month.
I have mild to moderate symptoms and I tried to use it as economically as possible. One tube lasted me 15 or 16 days only. So be prepared to buy 2 tubes for 1 month. I still like the cream and it seems to help me somehow, I feel not as bad as before, I would say almost good. So I will buy it again.
And of course you have to buy all the vitamins and supplements which you suppose to take in very high doses as well. It is costly. But if you want to stop suffering from perimenopasual syndrome – you have to find means for all that stuff.

Oct 20, 2012
how much to use
by: Wray

Hi Casey You're such a darling with all your encouraging comments to people, they are needed too. As it's not a quick or easy fix in many cases. Cost is a major factor too. I did suggest to Kathy that she tried to find friends she could share a box of 20 tubes with, as this comes with a 30% discount. Talking about being alive, I feel the same way about progesterone, I was ready to do myself in, or someone else! Take care Wray

Oct 20, 2012
I understand your confusion
by: Wray

Hi Irina I'm a bit puzzled, as I can't recall anywhere on the site where it says a tube will last 30 days. Well it will if a man is using it and only needs 10mg/day, it would actually last him 7 months. And if a woman used only 71mg daily for the whole month it would last 28 days, or 143mg/day if using it only for the 14 days of the luteal phase. If you know where it says this please let me know. I do recommend 100-200mg/day, but it is as you say dependant on symptoms. Many women have to use much more initially. I feel Kathy will need more. I'm delighted the progesterone has helped you, cost is always a factor, unfortunately. The supplements certainly help to regain health, it's a pity medical insurance won't pay for them. It makes getting well naturally a pricey business! Take care Wray

Oct 20, 2012
con'td
by: kathy

i just wanted to say thank-you to all those that responded to me ..i appreciate the help..I need it so i will try 200 mg per day because i cannot afford more than 1 tube right now and the Prometrium is not covered under my drug plan i think the scrip is for 5 or 7 days oral/caps at $30 so for a month $150 and i am on Gov't assistance due to mental health issues ..of course they will cover the dangerous MAP and other synthetic HRT scrips ..that blows me away ..i want quality of life and can't seem to get it..It seems the gov't is corrupt and in league with the Pharmacutical companies..hmm makes me wonder and would rather cover getting you more sickly than healthy!! :(
P.S. i have looked at online pharmacies that sell prometrium at half the cost for 28 days like $65.00 but need a scrip so will try to get my gyne to give me one...if he listens to me. I had to ask to go for ultrasounds and FSH and estrogen level testing again..as he never suggested and should have done so months ago to rule out any physical issues. i know i have a hormonal imbalance but maybe there is another underlying issue .thyroid ..my adrenals are a mess already i know that but if i go to a specialist i will just be put on more drugs ..steroids that suppress the immune system and put tons of weight on. i have been ill for 2 weeks now since a dosage mistake with the MAP still no period and 11 days since last pill ..i took it in August and no problems had my period 3 or 4 days after stopping then a normal cycle and after that nothing, erratic again. In August the dosage was correct so maybe this dosage mistake screwed me right up. i will wait to see if i get my period.. 50 days in now and i need that relief. Hopefully i can try to order the 3 tubes in Novemeber somehow!! Thanks Casey,Anonymous and of course Wray for showing your care and support :)

Oct 20, 2012
con'td
by: Wray

Hi Kathy I sometimes feel I'm dealing with about 6 different people! Scattered over our site are frantic calls for help, and then calm ones like this comment! I've only just answered another frantic one from you about not being able to understand the measurement. I'm relieved you're opting for 200mg/day. You will need 6ml of cream or 1 and 1/5 tsp. The tube will last you 10 days only. Although I don't think the 200mg/day will be enough. Please keep in touch as I'm concerned you might get Oestrogen Dominance. I do hope you can get a script from your doctor. Incidentally 3 tubes of Natpro will last you 30 days and will cost $69. This works out .60 cents cheaper than the online pharmacy prometrium for 28 days. i.e. $23 x 3 = $69/30 days gives $2.3/day x 28 days equals $64.40. And at the same amount too, i.e. 200mg/day. I do hope you get sorted out one way or another. I know I repeat myself, but please have a vitamin D test done. It's needed by every cell to function normally, including the thyroid and adrenals. Take care Wray

Oct 20, 2012
cont'd
by: kathy

So sorry Wray but i feel like 6 different peeps right now..my head is so messed up ..my depression on the verge of suicidal and feeling sick and then dealing with pharmacists for 2 weeks now and reporting them who are incompetent and actually messed up my dosage which messed up me... the MPA you said was toxic sure is! ..OMG a HOT MESS I am...sorry to confuse you..i am moody like a rollercoater and bloated and uncomfortable ,weepy etc.etc..the list goes on!look like 6 months prego not going away and all this after the scrip...
Anyway it is kathy ME and only one person with a lot of fuzzy brain activity.. too much on the platter right now and yes distressed and frantic

sorry again wray for the added confusion but no support anywhere else but here! God Bless you & AMEN! :)

Oct 22, 2012
cont'd
by: Wray

Hi Kathy I thought you must do, the message is coming across loud and clear, 6 in 1!! Please know it is possible to get better, so many of us have been in the same position, I have too. I must confess to not going to any doctors, as I mistrust drugs and all that. It is possible to heal yourself naturally, it does take time though. I wish you didn't have to take any of those drugs you're on, but if you do decide to come off them, please do so slowly. Please take a look at our Anxiety page again, there are many nutrients you need which can help. Taurine and glycine are very calming, consider taking those for a beginning. And please have that vitamin D test done. Bless you too! Take care Wray

Oct 23, 2012
cont'd
by: kathy

hi Wray
i submited a question somewhere recently about using the natpro on your face and cannot find it.Is it okay to do so.i have blotchiness and uneven skin tone and really sensitive skin so need to be careful. i haven't started using the Natpro yet because i am 59 days in after the MPA and incorrect dosage and now have no idea about my cycles and i need it to last...the MPA did not work this time as it has now been 15 days since i finished taking it and as i said before the first time in Aug the correct dosage i did get a period and then another one and that was the last Sept27th..don't know what to do i am wondering if the high dosage screwed me right up??? need to follow up again with my gyne just had pelvic & TV ultrasound yesterday because having some scary symptoms so i will be worrying for the next few days..My Gyne should have sent me for tests at the end of March to rule out any physical problems instead of just making assumptions and prescribing me MPA when he never even tested my progesterone levels just estrogen and said it was normal??? So frustrated with Dr's they do not listen or seem to care WE women need to be proactive or we get nowhere..I requested the ultrasounds ..he never even thought of it...think i just might need a new Dr??
P.S. i am not ure if i mentioned i smoke ..is it still safe to use Natpro...i am trying to quit but with all the stress etc..etc..it is hard!!

Oct 24, 2012
cont'd
by: Wray

Hi Kathy Yes progesterone is excellent for the face, see here. Please don't forget the one tube will only last 10 days. So if you have only ordered 1, please order more before you do start it, as it takes so long to get to Canada. MPA is not a good drug, I did give you that page we have on Contraceptives. It's made from testosterone, so has androgenic activity. What are you waiting for? I'm a bit puzzled, for a period? Remember I did tell you you might not have one, your symptoms are not related to not having a period, but to being in Peri-menopause. You might need a new doctor, but why do you need one at all? I haven't got one, never had. On the odd occasion I've needed one, like breaking a bone, I've used them, but otherwise never. I never took my daughter to one as she was growing up, unless she also broke a bone. Progesterone is safe to use if smoking, or any drug for that matter, there are no contraindications for it. Forget trying to quit smoking now, there's plenty of time for that later. Have you had that vitamin D test done yet?! Take care Wray

Oct 28, 2012
about "30 days"
by: Irina

Hi Wray,
the page where they say a tube of Natpro "is sufficient for a MINIMUM 1 month" is here.
It's a page about cream itself and how to order it here on this site.
I do see the continuation of that phrase. But it is enough to mislead some people like Kathy (remember her phrase "How do I make it last for 30 days?"). I'm not as bad as she is (right now I'm even fine, thank God and your site :-)) but even I've been misled when I ordered Natpro first time. I thought it will last me AT LEAST 1 month. But now I see it is not so. Now I see - if to use it generously for perimenopausal woman you'll need AT LEAST 2 TUBES A MONTH.
So I think they should not say the word "MINIMUM" on that page

Oct 29, 2012
about "30 days"
by: Wray

Hi Irina Thanks so much for coming back to me about this. Yes it does say a minimum as I believe that's the very least one should use. A normal monthly cycle in women varies between 21 to 35 days, anything shorter or longer is regarded as defective. So this spans less than one month, and longer than a month. It also says dependant on dosage. Many women need far more than one tube, as you point out a minimum of two tubes is often required. Whereas men could make one tube last 3-6 months. Some women are using 6 tubes a month, and we have a few who use 1 tube in 2 days! So it's difficult to be precise, but does give an idea. I'm delighted you're feeling better. Take care Wray

Nov 02, 2012
scared & more confused
by: kathy/canada

Update: I definitely need a new Dr. I saw my gyne yesterday and had to push and push to get answers that he seemed to not want give to me or even care about. he told me I am producing little or barely there hormones ..estrogen & progesterone ..the numbers he gave me i do not understand <73 estrogen & <1 for progesterone..whatever those numbers mean. i also have a cyst on my one ovary..I am concerned about that ..why do i have a cyst if i have no hormones. My other tests testosterone. prolactin and SHBG were all in normal range so he says..I felt brushed off and i demanded that he do another blood test in a weeks time although ido not know the best time to do the bloodwork becasue of the erratic cycles lately and repeat ultrsound in a month..I am at a loss as to what to do with this info and he wants to put me on premarin and the prometrium after the bloodwork results comes back again. I pushed for the testing a few weeks ago even though my estrogen was normal at end of Feb. now it's almost nothing as he put it and this time he tested my progesterone as he did not before??? I am still experiecing symtoms of pms ..cramping, bloating, moodiness like a week before my cycle but nothing..really overwhelmed and need help!

Nov 03, 2012
scared & more confused
by: Wray

Hi Kathy Many doctors don't know what hell our hormones can put us through if out of balance. Your oestrogen lies within the normal range which varies between 30 - 400 pg/ml. In other words it's not low. Your progesterone is very low, as it should vary between 5 to 20 ng/ml, some have found it can go as high as 40ng/ml. This gives you a ratio of 14:1, an extremely low ratio. We do have a page on Hormone Testing you could look through. We've found from Saliva Tests we run periodically, that the ratio should be 600:1 and over to feel well. So I'm not surprised you feel as you do. I have told you all along that you need to get your progesterone levels up, symptoms are as good a guide as serum tests. I have also told you you would need about 400mg/day to do this. This will hopefully prevent any Oestrogen Dominance occurring, or it will be mild. You have a cyst because your progesterone is low, please read through our page on Ovarian Cysts. You don't need another blood test, or an ultrasound, all your symptoms are normal for peri-menopause. Take care Wray

Nov 05, 2012
cont'd
by: kathy/canada

Thanks Wray;
I read so many websites and all are contradictory of progesterone safety and needing estrogen also even natural forms cancer..prog-est website issues a warning about that ..so i am more scared & confused than ever. Is my Gyne dense or what if he says <73 is low estrogen..because those numbers were not explained as you have put it to me by him at all. The progesterone makes sense <1 so that <73 seems like a high number not low to me. i think he should retire or upgrade his lack of knowledge and minimizing this suffering i am going through. Do i not need some low amount estrogen replacement also at some point for some health benefits..don't want to start looking and feeling old..another big fear old. In March all i was told was my estrogen was within normal range..no #'s were given so i asked/pushed as i need and have a right to to know what is going on. Why if he is telling me no hormones E&P or barely there now 7 months later but all other hormones normal am i still getting period like symptoms cramping etc..etc..could that be the cyst?? Please don't need to be told i am being frantic again because i know and can't help it..it has become obsessive as i suffer from mental health issues and have for quite some time..Just want to have some quality of life for a change..feels like forever
Is there a way for me to calculate what <73 means??? he will not put me on BC because i smoke but will/has prescribed the prometrium and premarin low dose for the so called lack of estrogen. i am doing another ultrasound because i don't know what the cyst is or why it is there at this point unless my body (pituaitary gland etc..etc..) searching for hormones to try to force ovulation ?? wish I could get some responses from other women in this position aswell ..may help me a little more and quell my fears and confusion

Nov 06, 2012
cont'd
by: Wray

Hi Kathy Could I suggest you don't read the blogs? I would also like to suggest you don't see doctors too, as they only scare you too! Please do me a favour and read the papers I give you, as they do give a true picture, and not an alarmist one. I give them not to overwhelm you, but to inform you, but they do need to be read. For instance we do have a page on Cancer, there are many papers on it, and you'll see progesterone has been used successfully in some. Or acts as a preventative. And if you want to read about what oestrogen can do to us, please look through our page on HRT. It matters not what type of oestrogen either. Be it endogenous, supplemental or a phytoestrogen, they all have the same affect. Oestrogen causes cells to proliferate, it's also an excitatory, inflammatory hormone. I did give you those papers on how it excites the brain, whereas progesterone is calming. So no, I don't think you need more oestrogen, as I think that is your whole problem now, you have too much. Whatever you do don't take premarin! By adding more it will skew your ratio even more. And oestrogen doesn't make us look young! There's strong evidence that comes from progesterone. Please read those papers I gave you on the affect progesterone has on the skin, whereas oestrogen does not help collagen formation. I gave you that page on ovarian cysts, please read it, as it will explain why it's there. You don't need another ultrasound, what's it going to tell you? That you have cyst which you already know. Please just do something about all this, i.e. use large amounts of progesterone and vitamin D. Your mental health issues I believe, stem from a lack of these two. If you can't afford the progesterone, then please take 20,000iu's per day vitamin D. Take care Wray

Nov 06, 2012
cont'd
by: kathy/katseyes canada

Hi again.
Yes Dr's do scare me and so do the websites about estrogen. Did you get a chance to go to PubMed where i read the article about the progesterone study on the skin and where the reviev is on the right about estrogen also.I would like to know your thoughts on that please, i only want to do another ultrasound just to be sure ..FEAR is driving me ..i want to see if it has grown and have it monitored for a while so i am not obsessing over it. I do not need the added stress worrying all the time as my adrenals have been through more than enough. So I need for my sanity to do this!! I would like to take the progesterone with the Vitamin D and i will find a way somehow to do it even if it is not right at this moment. I want to feel well!! My mental health issues have been around for sometime and the BDD stems from my early teenage years so that is not the reason. Unfortunately for me no amount of anthing will help that disorder. it has the highest suicide rate out of any of the psychiatric disorders even schizophrenia and is classsified as a type of OCD...so complex that even drugs and therapy are not enough. reasearchers are still out on what to pull out of their magicians' hats on this one!! As for the depression and anxiety it may be not responding because of the things you mentioned and actually is progressing. I promise i will get around to reading everything you have given me..Thank-you Wray :) You make the world a better place! :)

Nov 07, 2012
cont'd
by: Wray

Hi Kathy Well don't let them, they have no right to scare you, or anyone for that matter. And I think you've forgotten, but you did ask me about that oestrogen and skin paper some time back, and I gave you my comment on it. And if as I said the ultrasound still shows the cyst is there, what have you gained? Because it will still be there, you haven't used any progesterone yet, and your vitamin D is probably far too low. Cysts can grow to a tennis ball size in some women before it's noticed. Surely having it continually monitored is obsessing? And I didn't realise you had OCD. Please consider taking 4000mg/day inositol, possibly much more, it does help this problem. In fact with OCD doctors give up to 18,000mg/day and it goes, see here, here, here and here. I don't believe any disorder can not be reversed, something caused it in the first place, we are not born with them.
I wish you would have a vitamin D test done, this might explain how you're feeling. It's low in all depressive illnesses. Bless you again Kathy for the kind words, I don't seem to be helping you much. I wish there was some way you could get some cash, as I know the inositol will help you, the vitamin D and progesterone too. Take care Wray

Nov 08, 2012
cot'd
by: kathy.katseyes

Hi Wray.. 2 nights of the prometrium at 400mg now and still some cramping but like on my other page not too too bad it is tolerable and I do not need to take advil. I don't like to take anything as it is but i take Wellbutrin 150mg & clonazepam 4mg..I wish the so called dopamine in the wellbutrin would rev me(sex wise) up but i tend to forget to take it and am trying to make a better effort because i was taken off the SSRI's that I had been on for 5 years ( too many to name) could be a poster child for the damn things. Wray You are more helpful to me than you even realize :) . I do not have much of a support network and you are there for me as well as others who are searching in the dark for answers to this "illness" menopause because that is what it is too me..men are so lucky!! Thank-you for suggesting tyrosine & inositol..will look into that OMG where to find the money..need to win a lottery but most of all wish i could go back to work sometime..still praying for that in the Spring..then i can afford what i need for my health so hopefully i can get healthier. Thank-you for being here...if it wasn't for your support ..well who knows where i would be right now!! Take care..ttys
P.S. Maybe i should just have one page ..makes it a hell of a lot easier, and less confusing

Nov 09, 2012
cont'd
by: Wray

Hi Kathy Bless you for the kind words, although I feel I'm not helping sufficiently. Problem is cash, as it always is. So ironic the medical insurance will pay for drugs, but not for the nutrients the body needs. Instead they throw the whole arsenal at us in the hopes one of the drugs will help. But it's only treating the symptoms, not the cause. Please the 400mg/day is not causing any problems, and that the cramping is not too bad, at least it's good news you didn't have to take the advil. Do hope you can get the inositol and tyrosine, you do need them badly. Go easy on the tyrosine to start with, no more than 500mg/day then gradually increase it. You are taking the Wellbutrin which is supposedly getting your dopamine up, but often with additional adverse side affects. It doesn't appear to be doing a very good job either! It does appear Menopause is an illness, but many women sail throughout it without noticing. But I've found the more stress a person has the worse it is. It was for me and thousands of other women. We all have too much stress now. I do agree with you, one page would be much easier! Take care Wray

Nov 27, 2012
confused
by: kathy

okay Wray..luv ya first off.second got my 4 tubes of Natpro. I am happy but still in pain and another test today sonohysterogram..dr was hot..only good thing about it ..lol ;)..very painful situatin. Now i have a stupid question I want to take an estrogen supplement along with the Natpro but because my Dr is an idiot and I can't see the BHT gyne until April what can I do .who and what sellers do I trust..I feel I do need estrogen to balance all out optimal health.good one Estrone and from what supplier?? Help..my skin is aging really fast last monh and my body well ugggh!
Still don't have any answers except if iam in menopause then I should not have adenymosis..last year i apparently had it..O: noone told me..so what are the ratios if i order estrone and take natpro for now???? confused as hell

Nov 28, 2012
confused
by: Wray

Hi Kathy Thanks for the kind words, and I'm glad the doctor was hot! I'm baffled as to why you want to add oestrogen, you have too much as it is. Can you let me know why you think you need it. If you want more info on oestrogen, please read these three pages, Oestrogen Dominance, Contraceptives and HRT. I think you'll find that once you use the progesterone for a few weeks, that your skin will get better. Forget that paper you saw about oestrogen and the skin, the risks are not worth it. Just read those pages and the papers on them that I've given you. Take care Wray


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