Wray, need your help understanding this

by Temperi

Hi Wray, I read this response from someone in the health industry who seems to think progesterone or more specifically long-term progesterone use even for menopausal women is harmful. Much of what he said is completely and totally opposite from what Ive read here and experienced for myself.Hes no dummy,but I cant understand where hes getting this information from and if there is any validity to it. Im sure this is somewhat exhausting for you having to deal with posts like these but if you could take a minute to help clarify some of these issues and help put my mind at ease Id greatly appreciate it. Thanks!(:

"I always felt that the hormones drop naturally for a reason and messing with that is not a great idea in most cases. For example, the rise in progesterone then the sudden drop in younger women is what stimulates menstruation. After a certain age menstruation is not necessary.

There will be some situations where the hormones may need a little adjusting for various reasons though. For example if a person is exposed to stronger estrogens such as Premarin, which is 3,000 times stronger than the body's own estrogen or synthetic xenoestrogens that can be hundreds of times stronger. These can cause hormonal disruptions that may need to be addressed, but even at that progesterone replacement is rarely the best answer and definitely not the safest.

Promoters of progesterone cream have been very misleading.

To start with claiming or calling these progesterone creams "natural" or "bioidentical". These progesterone products are synthesized in the same manner as all other pharmaceutical progesterone by altering plant sterols. If they want to claim that this makes the creams natural because they start out from natural plant sterols before being altered then we could apply the same reasoning to petroleum plastics claiming they are natural since they started out as natural oil. Chemically altering the plant sterols means that they are no longer natural and therefore using the term "natural" is very misleading.

There is no proof that they are bioidentical either. Just because something has the same atoms this does not make it the same thing. Glucose, fructose and galactose for example all contain 6 carbon, 12 hydrogen atoms and 6 oxygen atoms (C6H12O6) yet they are all different sugars. Atomic arrangement and even bond angles can alter a molecule. We cannot see exactly where atoms are located in these molecules so there is no way to really claim they are bioidentical. Synthetic vitamin E for example is claimed to be bioidentical to its natural counterparts. Yet studies have shown that natural vitamin E is more effective than its synthetic counterpart. Obviously there is some differences even though they are claimed to be identical.

Side effects and safety are other areas the progesterone promoters are being very misleading about. Many of the side effects of progesterone they are blaming on estrogen. For example, they claim estrogen suppresses the libido, which in reality is just the opposite. Estrogen promotes receptivity. Progesterone kills the libido and on a subtle level makes women smell bad to men, Progesterone also causes depression, irritability, acne, hyperaggression, constipation, etc. It is the surge of progesterone before menstruation that causes PMS symptoms. Both estrogen and progesterone can cause weight gain and promote the risk of gallstone formation.. Both estrogen and progesterone also increase the risk of cancer by activating cancer viruses. Progesterone in particular activates cancer causing human papilloma viruses associated with cervical, vaginal, vulvar, breast, penile, prostate, ano-genital, skin, oropharynx, esophageal and laryngo- pharyngeal cancers.

Another issue I have with the administration of progesterone is the fact that this is being done without accurately determining progesterone levels. Testing is done through salivary testing, which DOES NOT accurately reflect progesterone levels. The reason why is because progesterone stores in the fat tissues. This is the reason women are told to apply the progesterone creams on fatty parts of the body in a rotating manner. The progesterone absorbs through the skin and deposits in the fat underneath the skin. The reason for the rotation is so that the progesterone does not build up to super high levels in the one area of the body from repeated application to the same location. If the progesterone went right in to the bloodstream where it was circulated then there would be no reason to rotate application sites. Since the progesterone gets stored in the body fat this means that most of it is not circulating and thus levels CANNOT be determined by saliva tests. The only way to determine actual progesterone levels in a tissue would be through biopsies of those tissues for testing, which is not feasible.

The progesterone is slowly released from the fat tissues in to the blood, and it is this small release of stored progesterone that is being detected in the saliva. Because progesterone is released so slowly the other problem is that with the regualr use of progesterone the levels can build up to excessively high levels that again cannot be detected. Women can literally end up with years worth of stores of progesterone in their fat tissue leading to all sorts of dangerous side effects."

Comments for Wray, need your help understanding this

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Feb 10, 2015
Wray, need your help understanding this
by: Wray

Hi Temperi I don't have the time to refute all his comments. Please see our page on Stress, this drops progesterone levels, many women and men are now highly stressed. The oestrogen mimics are causing havoc too, see Our Stolen Future. It's not just the companies who make progesterone cream who use the term 'natural', but many of the studies done on progesterone do too! This is nonsense "they claim estrogen suppresses the libido, which in reality is just the opposite. Estrogen promotes receptivity. Progesterone kills the libido", see our page on Libido. This is rubbish too….. "depression, irritability, acne, hyperaggression, constipation," See our pages on Anxiety, Acne and Aggression. So is this rubbish "It is the surge of progesterone before menstruation that causes PMS symptoms." Progesterone doesn't surge prior to Menstruation, it rises to a peak in the middle of the luteal phase, i.e. ±7 days before bleeding. then starts dropping ±3 days before bleeding. It's the drop which causes the PMS. "Both estrogen and progesterone can cause weight gain and promote the risk of gallstone formation." Huh?!………oestrogen causes cells to proliferate, including fat cells, see here, here, here, here and here. "Both estrogen and progesterone also increase the risk of cancer by activating cancer viruses." So misleading, it's only the HPV he's talking about, most cancers are not caused by viruses. See our page on Cancer, and these papers here and here. This is not true….."Testing is done through salivary testing, which DOES NOT accurately reflect progesterone levels." See Progesterone Test, and this new article published January 2015, see here. As for fat cells, stores, saturated cells etc see our page on Progesterone Misconceptions. Take care Wray

Feb 10, 2015
offering a comment
by: Aliisalii

Hi Temperi. I just wanted to offer a comment. I have gone through hell really for the last 8 months. I have worked with multiple doctors that are in direct opposition to what Wray advises. None of it worked. I was desperate and decided to go out on a limb and take Wray's advice. One thing I really respect about Wray is everything she says is backed up by scientific research. She has been researching this stuff and helping people for around 15 years I believe. So yeah, I was scared to take her advice but I've looked at the studies, too. It is hard to go against your doctors but what they were telling me wasn't helping and Wray was showing me why it wasn't helping. You are doing the right thing by asking questions. Some of the research is done with progestin which really messes things up too and shows negative affects that are then blamed on progesterone.

Keep seeking out answers and best of luck to you!

Feb 12, 2015
by: Temperi

Thankyou both for your comments. Its so hard these days to know which information is right or which is misleading if your not a scientist or have a degree in biology.Sometimes its hard to be able to sort it all out. I agree that whats different here is that you back everything up with studies. I think I need to start making myself read those studies more so I stop getting so confused! (-; It so easy for someone to speak with a lot of authority and swear they know what they are talking about and scare the daylights out of us if we don’t have that solid understanding of the science and medical studies proving its safety. Ive gotten some good health advice from him but as I said it is completely opposite to what I know and what Ive even experienced. I will admit that for a moment I was really terrified though and thought I had to come off the progesterone right away,( I do have anxiety though,lol). After slowing down and re-reading it, especially the part when he says it’s the surge in progesterone that causes the PMS I thought no way is that true. I can tell ya from my experience and what was also shown on my salivary tests that I feel at my worst when my progesterone levels drop- did he really say we feel worse when it surges? I cant remember exactly but yea that is crazy. Hes definitely a Estrogen played havoc with my life and my emotions before progesterone and I feel so much better on it. Ive had to stay on it daily for the past six months to try and tame estrogen dominance and going to try to start following my cycle again soon but if I feel worse, I am prepared to remain on it daily. I have two autoimmune disorders and if something was harming me it would most definitely let me know. I don’t know just goes to show me every person speaking with authority and conviction doesn’t always know what they are talking about,it just perplexes me where they get these ideas from though. I think Im going to take the time to study this issue here and the links you gave me much more in depth. Again, thanks so much for both your input!

Feb 17, 2015
Wray, need your help understanding this
by: RJ

Hello Temperi!
Keep one thing in mind....if all of us take our health into our own hands and take natural things to keep our bodies healthy there would be a landside....drastic decrease...within the medical profession. Uneducated, scared and leery people are what the majority of doctors want. They do not want you to question them and some get downright belligerent with patients. Listen to your body...only you can do it. No doctor can. Once he leaves your room and throws your file on the billing clerks desk, he's finished with you and ready to go on to the next one. What your doctor should suggest is that you try progesterone and see how it goes...or most importantly see how you feel and then make a judgment call. I bet he doesn't think twice about prescribing anti-depressants or statin drugs. Think about it, if Thomas Edison would have given up and listened to all the critics about something that would change mankind all of us would still be living in the dark. Just my view as my doctors assistant three years ago said I had cancer. It's hard to look past the fact that these medical practitioners are there to help when most do not give a hoot about your health. Think about why we are having a surge in reproduction cancers of both male and females. Men do not take progesterone, yet breast and prostate cancers are at an all time high for men. So, what's causing it. Estrogen. It's in our foods, water, drugs, air, lotions...everything. It's not progesterone. Read through Wray's site...she's a tremendous woman who has a research paper to back everything up that she will suggest to you. You are blessed that you came across her site...perhaps Divine intervention for it will change you for the better if you let it! God Bless! RJ

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