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Symptoms

by Wendy lee
(Grand Bay, Alabama)

Dear Wray,
My symptoms consist of breast soreness, brain fog, crying spells, vaginal itchyness, nasal drainage every morning, ear ringing in my left ear, and heavy periods. How much progesterone cream do you recommend that I use?

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Jul 09, 2013
 Symptoms
by: Wray

Hi Wendy It's very difficult to say, but I would suggest no less than 200mg/day for those symptoms. We do have a few pages you could look through too, Breast Tenderness, Menopause, Peri-menopause, Hormone Balance, Candida and Menstruation. And please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance as it can affect many women when starting progesterone. I'm not sure how old you are, so have given you the pages which cover all phases of our lives. Please make sure your vitamin D levels are high, as if low it reduces the benefits of progesterone. Living in Australia your level is probably low. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the following websites, Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L, and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray
Jul 09, 2013
 Nausea
by: Feather

I've been taking nat pro for several weeks and notice that I'm feeling sick, and that my body and especially ankles are more swollen than normal and I seem to have even less energy. Prior to that I was taking an organic natural prog cream for the last month until I switched to nat pro.

Can you advise what is happening and how I can ease the symptoms? I am taking the advised amount of 1 tsp per day approx perhaps slightly less. Many thanks for your help.
Jul 12, 2013
 Nausea
by: Wray

Hi Feather Can you tell me how much progesterone you were using, as switching creams can make a difference. If you used 1tsp of the last cream, did it contain the same amount of progesterone as the Natpro, i.e. ±170mg. If it was less or more, it would cause the symptoms you're suffering from. There's more info on our page about Oestrogen Dominance. Oestrogen stimulates substance P, see here. Substance P is a neuropeptide involved in causing pain and nausea. Substance P inhibits progesterone, see here, but if enough is used, progesterone suppresses substance P, see here. This is an excellent article on water retention here. And you might like to look at our page on Traumatic Brain Injury. Progesterone is given to the victims to prevent any oedema forming, as it's an excellent diuretic. Take care Wray
Jul 12, 2013
 Nausea, swelling and sleepiness
by: Feather

Dear Wray
thanks for responding. I am unsure what the level of prog cream is in my previous cream, here is the link if you know the cream, it doesn't state it on the jar.
I think I was taking about 3/4 tsp just over what was suggested per day. The first month I did noticed that my period was early by 1 week so was unable to complete the full course that month.

I have yet to fully read everything you suggested, just taken a quick look at the article on swelling and can't see any steps I can take to prevent it?

Do I need to increase the dose, would that work? The swelling go so bad the other night that I didn't take the night dose as I was concerned. It seemed to ease things slightly in the morning.

One other thing I noticed since I last wrote is the feeling extremely sleepy mid afternoon around 2pm. If I remember I think this is a symptom too of prog cream?

I realise from my symptoms that I must be estrogen dominant (years ago my natropath also confirmed this)I'm 46, never had children.

I have been under considerable stress over the last 4-5yrs and I believe this has built up the cortisol/adrenal exhaustion in my system.

about 3 yrs ago I had to have a large breast cyst treated and again it returned this year.

I've had problems with cramps in calves, hair thinning, exhaustion (currently sorting out anaemia) and steadily a change in my waist size and generally carrying more weight (I have always been very slim so this is really noticeable) terrible PMS and especially 1 week before lots of crying, need to get up in the night to go to the bathroom (and I notice the cramps ease with epson salt baths).

One good thing I have noticed is an absence of breast tenderness I usually get, and my back ache and cramps are greatly reduced - so that is good news!

I know this is a little long, hope it helps to give a clearer picture and any follow up advice is gratefully received.

Many thanks
Jul 12, 2013
 Nausea, swelling and sleepiness
by: Wray

Hi Feather Thanks for all the info, the more the better. I do know the cream and it is half the strength of the Natpro. This was the answer I was waiting for, I couldn't help you not knowing this. It contains 1000mg in the 60ml container, or 16.67mg/ml of cream. The Natpro contains 2000mg/60ml or 33.3mg/ml, or double the amount. So the 3/4tsp you were using was giving you about 62mg/day. The 1tsp of Natpro gives you about 170mg/day. So you are using almost 3 times as much progesterone as you had been. This accounts for the symptoms you had, that extra progesterone has stimulated oestrogen. The sleepiness is another oestrogen dominance symptom. If you're stressed then your progesterone has dropped, which allows oestrogen to rise. This is why you reacted as you did. I've found the higher the oestrogen the worse the affect when first using progesterone, or increasing it as you did. Progesterone is a potent anxiolytic, as it activates the GABA receptor sites, GABA is our most calming neurotransmitter. So progesterone lessens the Stress response which takes the burden off the adrenals. The adrenals produce progesterone daily which they then convert into cortisol. So if the adrenals are stressed they tend to rob other sources of progesterone, notably the ovaries. In fact stress can stop the reproductive process. So using supplemental progesterone relieves the adrenals from producing progesterone. If you had a Breast Cyst it indicates your oestrogen is too high. There's no need to have it 'treated', as progesterone resolves the problem. It could be you are short of iodine too, as this causes breast cysts. Delighted the Breast Tenderness has cleared up. You are now in Peri-menopause with dropping progesterone and normal testosterone and oestrogen. This study saying "As testosterone progressively dominates the hormonal milieu during the menopausal transition, the prevalence of MetS increases, independent of aging and other important covariates. This may be a pathway by which cardiovascular disease increases during menopause.", see here. It's the testosterone causing the Hair Loss.
Continued below
Jul 12, 2013
 Nausea, swelling and sleepiness Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Feather The weight gain over the stomach is also caused by testosterone, it's notorious at increasing visceral fat, see here and here. Finally it can cause terrible PMS too. But if bound to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) testosterone becomes inactive, progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone and severe PMS. I don't believe you are using enough progesterone, please increase to at least 200mg/day, you might need more. SHBG drops if sugars are eaten, even those found in all grains, legumes, processed milk and sweet starchy fruits and vegetables. Fructose, sucrose and glucose, reduce SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. Thereby allowing testosterone to rise. It's best to avoid all the foods and sugars mentioned. Wine and beers contain carbs, so it's best to avoid those too. Plus alcohol affects hormone levels in women, see here and here. It decreases progesterone levels and increases androgen levels, both the total testosterone and free testosterone become higher. Higher testosterone is also associated with an increased risk for Insulin Resistance, Met Syndrome and heart disease, see here. Sugars and large meals also drop progesterone levels, see here. Plus insulin drops levels too, see here. This means SHBG also drops, testosterone rises, another vicious cycle. For your cramps please consider taking 800mg/day magnesium to get your level up, then reduce to about 250mg/day. The Epson Salts baths are a good idea, it is absorbed through the skin, I put 3 handfuls in my bath every night. I buy a 25kg bag from a farmer's co-op! It could be you're not eating enough protein too. The amino acid taurine is an osmolyte, it controls the flow of the electrolytes in and out of cells. If you don't have enough it could be your magnesium is not going where it should. Taurine is only found in fish and meat, no vegetable, nut or seed. Try taking 2000mg/day or increase your protein intake. Take care Wray
Jul 12, 2013
 Nausea, swelling and sleepiness
by: Feather

Dear Wray, firstly, THANKYOU so much for your really helpful advice. It is really great to be taken so seriously after going to the doctors and specialists who have been unable to help or even realise what was going on. My blood tests didn't show any problems so I felt unsupported by them.

What you say makes so much sense, yes I'll increase the daily dose, if I have it right to about 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 tsp a day. Yes I think you are right about iodine I had put that together and have bought some kelp tablets. I have also decided to take Vit D I know you recommend between 5K-10K daily, as I live in North of England where we have low levels of sunshine, or light. I will also start to implement the other recommendations, thanks for the tip about Epsom salts.

I also noticed that when I ate some chocolate that I really didn't feel well, (I usually buy very dark 80% or raw dark choc and put that in smoothies) although I was craving it (another sign of needing more magnesium and maybe more energy due to my adrenals?) and I guess sugar imbalance.

I have two questions just to clarify some of your points:

1. I generally eat a veggie diet, although recently I have introduced eating some fish, and eggs. As you say more protein does help - and I feel less irritable, blood sugary etc. However most of my diet includes grains, seeds, nuts, legumes, pulses, beans, fruit, veg etc, no tea, coffee or alcohol though.

As sweet fruit are out (I guess that includes dried fruit, honey, Stevia?) are Acid and sub acid fruits, low and non start veg ok? I'm just trying to get a handle on what I can now eat.

Finally I feel like I am getting the information I need, what a relief thank you so much.
Jul 18, 2013
 Nausea, swelling and sleepiness
by: Wray

Hi Feather Thanks for the kind words. I didn't realise you lived in the north of England, please have a vitamin D test done, as your levels are probably very low. Birmingham Hospital send out test kits for £25 and the results back by email. It would be better if you could have the blood test done before taking the vitamin D, that way we'll know how much you should take. If you want help with their results, please contact Julienne, she lives in London, via her website here. She can explain what your levels should be as BH go by the NHS 'adequate' level which is far too low. She can also advise on progesterone too. Most labs and doctors only look at the levels of hormones, and rarely the ratios. So it could be your oestrogen is high normal, and progesterone low normal. This would play havoc with anyone. We do have Saliva Tests you could look through to get an idea of what the ratios should be. Delighted you've got some kelp. Interesting about the dark choc having that affect, I suspect it was the sugar it contained. If blood glucose drops too low too quickly it can cause nausea. I suspect this is what occurred with you when you started the progesterone. Although substance P is behind it, and oestrogen stimulates this, oestrogen also destabilises blood glucose, see here. And it seems your magnesium is too low if you crave the choc. If you have already started the vitamin D, you could find you get pain. Low magnesium causes substance P to rise, see here and here. It's the most important co-factor for vitamin D, if this increases it will 'use up' the magnesium, hence the pain. Your diet is a problem as most of the things you eat will upset blood glucose. If you can please avoid all grains, legumes, pulses, beans (unless green), sweet starchy fruit and veg. The seeds and nuts are fine in moderation, but they are high in phytoestrogens. As are all grains and legumes! See here. Even foods of animal origin contain them, see here. Continued below
Jul 18, 2013
 Nausea, swelling and sleepiness Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Feather Fish has the highest level of taurine in it, and taurine does help blood glucose, see here, here, here, here and here. It's also a very calming neurotransmitter. Plus it prevents glutamate, our most excitatory neurotransmitter, and calcium induced excitotoxicity. see here This prevents a decrease in mitochondrial energy metabolism, which could account for your tiredness when starting progesterone. Oestrogen stimulates glutamate, which in turn stimulates excess calcium to enter cells, see here. Progesterone protects against glutamate toxicity, it also increases BDNF (brain-derived neuroptrophic factor) in itself protective, see here and here. If glutamate is too high, it allows calcium, an excitatory mineral, to enter the cells. Progesterone also protects against calcium induced excitotoxicity, see here. Dried fruit is particularly dense in the sugars as the water content is reduced and therefore we eat more of them. Honey is also a no-no, but stevia is fine. The best fruits if any are apples, under ripe bananas and under ripe pears. Half a cup of berries is fine, but it should only be one of the fruits a day, not all of them. We do have a page on Nutrition you could look through. Take care Wray
Jul 20, 2013
 1st Month of using Nat Pro side effects
by: Feather

Hi Wray, thank you again for your time in answering my previous questions, your information is really valuable.

I wanted to check some things out with you as I've noticed some more changes.

1. My period started and by end of Day 3 had stopped completely. Usually it runs at least 5 days. Not sure why this would happen?

2. Day 5 - I am unsure if it is starting again as there is some spotting, and also there was a lot of pain in my left ovary (something I have been noticing over the last few months - which eases after about 1hr - it's a sharp stabbing pain and I need to lie down, sometimes I feel sick and dizzy with it). An additional symptom I noticed that I don't normally get was pain in my vulva - like a cramping throbbing pain too.

This pain has been happening on an off since my late 30s but only once or twice a year now it occurs nearly every month.

I am wondering if you can explain what might be happening and what do about it?

What I have noticed on the positive side -

I've lost all the water retention, and feel like my body is less bloated too.

I'm am sleeping much better and not having to get up in the night to go to the toilet, which is so great.

My mind seems clearer and less fogginess, and with your suggestion about the thyroid I believe that my energy will start returning when I start implementing those dietary changes as well.

I'm hoping that next month might be a bit easier, and the symptoms subside - do you know how long it might take to get the balance right so that my body eliminates these side effects?

Thanks again for all you do Wray.
Jul 20, 2013
 1st Month of using Nat Pro side effects
by: Wray

Hi Feather I'm pleased some good is occurring! Progesterone can upset the cycle to begin with, making it earlier or later than normal. I think I forgot to give you the page on How to use progesterone cream which explains this. It can stop excess bleeding or shorten the bleeding time, not that 5 days is excessive, but it's probably only this affect. The pain in the ovary is called Mittelschmerz. It occurs in approximately 20% of women at ovulation only and in no way is it dangerous. It is not a cyst rupturing, but the follicle containing a mature egg bursting to release the egg. The pain usually subsides within hours, but can linger for a day or two.see here, here, here and here. The uterus, ovaries, cervix and vulva are so intimately connected, if not directly, by hormones too. So the vulva pain is probably a response to changing hormone levels. If it persists it could be an infection, but it sounds more like a hormone driven affect, particularly if sporadic. Try applying the cream to that area and see if it helps you. Incidentally it's wonderful for an inflamed or dry vagina, I use some there every night to prevent this occurring. And how long!? The perennial question, I wish I had the answer. It took me 6 months before things righted themselves, but then I was using the very low amounts usually recommended. Take care Wray
Sep 02, 2013
 Changes and Pain
by: Feather

Thank you Wray for writing about the pain I was experiencing in my ovary that is a big relief to know it's safe AND that you knew what it was (unlike the Doctor!)

Things seemed to have settled down with the pain, however I noticed a change in my period this month, it started 8 days earlier that normal. Usually it is pretty regular, it was a bigger change than expected, so I am hoping it starts to settle down in the next few months.

The good news is that this month I noticed that the excessive swelling in my ankles and feet I continued to get, has been much better this month, although I haven't been able to use as much of the cream as normal due to the early period.

I have however noticed that I need to get up in the night again to go to the toilet. I guess things may get better and then change, until they even themselves out.

The pain in my vulva has also gone. It seems that symptoms do come and go, so I just need to ride them out.

My Doctor is doing a Vit D test for me, and I wondered what figures I would need to get from him so I know how to naturally supplement, could you advise?

Thanks again Wray.
Sep 02, 2013
 Changes and Pain
by: Wray

Hi Feather Glad the info helped. Don't forget you are in Peri-menopause and heading towards the end. Menopause averages about age 51, I found my cycles became erratic and then very erratic towards the end. Spotting, flooding, nothing at all, always caught me unawares. So it could be this, or it could be the settling in time after starting progesterone. Incidentally no amount of progesterone will regulate the cycle once it's become erratic, the ovaries now have a mind of their own. If you wish you could use the progesterone daily, there's no harm in this. I did, as all my symptoms came back when I took the customary break. And when in the erratic phase it's impossible to follow anyway, so there's no point in doing so. Progesterone is an excellent diuretic, hence the night time loo visits. There's more info about this on our Traumatic Brain Injury page. It's given to victims to prevent any oedema forming, inflammation too. Delighted the vulva pain has gone, but you are right symptoms do come and go, often difficult to assess what causes this. If it's cyclic it could be the rise in oestrogen either prior to ovulation, or mid-luteal phase. Ah if your doctor is doing the vitamin D test, he will go by the NHS 'adequate' level of 50nmol/L. They have the lowest in the world, even the FDA have raised theirs to 75nmol/L. Specialists recommend a minimum of 125nmol/L, the less conservative 175-250nmol/L. I keep mine in the 230-250nmol/L range. So please don't let him tell you your level is 'fine', you must ask for the results, or at least the level given. I can then advise you. Or you can get hold of my friend Jules in London via her website here. She's a delight, with a lovely sense of humour. It was her shoulder I used to cry on before I found progesterone. She's as passionate about vitamin D as I am. Another woman I'm also helping in the UK was told her level of 164nmol/L was toxic! And to stop using it. Well studies of hunter-gatherers have found it goes much higher naturally. I suppose they would be advised to stay out of the sun! Look forward to hearing your results. Take care Wray
Sep 19, 2013
 Vit D levels results
by: Feather

Hi Wray thanks for your last post I thought I would respond once I have my Vit D results back from the Doctor.

I have been to the doctors and have my Vit D level results which are 67.5 nmol/l even the doctor said it should be 75 and wants to give me a course of “Fultium-D3 800 unit – 1 capsule daily for 3 months.

I have written to Jules to ask her about information just waiting to hear back. In the meantime I thought I would share the results as promised to see if you have anything to add?

How much should I be taking daily and for how long ideally?

PS this month I have noticed less swelling so I guess my body is adjusting slowly but surely:)

thanks Wray.
Sep 19, 2013
 More info to help
by: Feather

I am not sure if I mentioned it, however, when I went to the Doctors he also said that I was slightly hypothyroid. T4 13.3, & TSH 4.7, cortisol 658 nmol (he said my cortisol was ok although I'm uncertain about that).

He has asked me to go back in 2-3wks for a re test of my thyroid.

Hopefully that give a fully picture and you can advise best course of action with regards to vit D supplementation.

thanks Wray
Sep 22, 2013
 More info to help
by: Wray

Hi Feather Normal values are for TSH are 0.4 - 4.0 mIU/L see Medline TSH. So your level is only slightly high. But your T4 is above normal values, which are 4 to 11 mcg/dL, see Medline T4. So why are you hypothyroid? And it's pointless testing those, without checking T3, this is the active hormone. Did he check tyrosine, iodine and selenium? I doubt it, without these the thyroid can't make T4. Your T4 level was fine, but if your selenium is low you won't be able to convert the T4 into T3. Normal cortisol values for a blood sample taken at.....
8 in the morning are 6 - 23 ug/dL or 165 - 635 nmol/L
During the afternoon 3-16 mcg/dL or 83-441 nmol/L
Normally, cortisol levels rise and fall during the day, repeating on a 24-hour cycle (diurnal variation). Highest levels are at about 6 - 8 a.m. and lowest levels are at about midnight.
Physical and emotional stress can increase cortisol levels, because during the normal stress response, the pituitary gland increases its release of ACTH. Yours is slightly high. Higher than normal cortisol levels are expected in women who take oestrogen or birth control pills, see WebMD. We do have a page on Hormone Testing you could look through. Take care Wray
Sep 22, 2013
 Vit D levels resutls
by: Wray

Hi Feather Interesting the doctor thought it should be higher, as the NHS level is 50nmol/L. But 800iu per day is laughable! You need at least 10,000iu per day to get it up quickly. It's perfectly safe, see here. Even 40,000iu per day is. Once your level is up at the 200-250ng/ml mark, 5000iu per day is a maintenance dose, not just for 3 months! I take 5000iu daily and have for years. My level is 230ng/ml and I try to keep it there. I sit indoors on the computer, like most of us do, and get little sun. I'll never stop taking it, it's just so protective. I've recently done two pages, one on topical vitamin D. The other longer and more comprehensive on vitamin D. Delighted the swelling is coming down, it does take time. I do know Jules is hugely busy right now, I'm also waiting for an answer to an email I sent! Hopefully she'll respond soon. Take care Wray
Oct 03, 2013
 D3 and results
by:

Hi Wray, thanks for giving me feedback about my blood test results. I was a bit uncertain what do to as you mention why hypothyroid, rather than hyperthyroid? I'm having my blood re-tested next week so I'll try to get the T3 results as you mentioned this is an important figure, I'll let you know.

My cortisol levels were taken at 9am so it seems higher than normal from what you mentioned. That makes sense to me due to my stress levels. I have a feeling that my adrenals are exhausted and this is putting a strain on my thyroid. I'm not taking the pill or oestrogen of any kind so I can rule that out.

I'm in the process of ordering my Vit D, although I already had some so I'm taking that and uping the dose to 10K ius. I'm not sure if it's related however I've noticed that I am generally less tired, however now I'm struggling to get to sleep at night I'm tossing and turning until 2-3am in the morning and I'm wondering if vit D has anything to do with that?

My mind seems more anxious and racing and wide awake and I'm up to the toilet more again at least 3-4 times at night.

I was reading this interesting blog post from someone's personal blog who suffers from migraines, (not that I have migraines) however she was using high doses of Vit D to help with other menopausal symptoms as well.

http://angelasmigrainediary.blogspot.co.uk/ and she had overcome lots of issues with various natural treatments, one being vit D, magnesium oil, natural prog cream etc. It's very helpful reading.

There is some research that says that it's important to take Vit K2 with higher doses of Vit D. Research here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MIRACULOUS-EXTREMELY-SUNSHINE-EXPERIMENT-ebook/dp/B005FCKN2S/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=9P28JYGPM9AL&coliid=I2LU4BDGUSS2V9 AND that it needs to be combined with Magnesium, is that something you do and recommend?

This lady uses magnesium oil 1hr before bed to help her sleep. I know you mentioned you used epsom salts and I use them too, I took a bath earlier in the day however it didn't seem to help me sleep better, I think maybe I need to try just before bed. What are your thought between the magnesium oil vs epsom salts?

Thanks Wray.
Oct 04, 2013
 Adrenals
by: Feather

Hi Wray, that more I have been researching into Adrenal fatigue the more I can relate to those symptoms.

I know when the adrenals get burn't out the next step the body uses is the Thyroid, and my Thyroid is suffering.

The only thing is I have low blood pressure which isn't typical I think for adrenal problems.

I do have constant lower back pain, cold hands and feet, dizziness, and if I'm exhausted (esp after exercise) and my mind racing, plus my bladder is over working, and I'm not sleeping, and I have water retention especially in my ankles these all link to it.

I'm going to try increasing my sodium by taking natural salts (Himalayan or celtic sea salt), my b vit esp B5, some natural herbs Maca, licorice, ginseng etc, and Vit C is also important too, I was thinking rosehips is a good source, and as I get muscle cramps in my calves at night natural calcium and keep up with the magnesium, and then there is the iodine too! Of course there is also Vit D too.

I know there are other things as well but I think I will start with these.

Any other thoughts, thanks Wray?
Oct 06, 2013
 D3 and results
by: Wray

Hi Feather The progesterone has stimulated oestrogen, it does take time to settle down. The racing mind can be due to low tyrosine, which causes dopamine to drop. But I feel in your case it's the oestrogen, it stimulates glutamate our most excitatory neurotransmitter, see here. Oestrogen also destroys beta-endorphin neurons in the brain, these produce endorphins which promote a feeling of well being and relaxation. And it increases free radicals, see here. The paper says "This loss of opioid neurons is prevented by treatment with antioxidants indicating that it results from estradiol-induced formation of free radicals". Whereas progesterone protects against glutamate toxicity, it also increases BDNF (brain-derived neuroptrophic factor) in itself protective, see here and here. If glutamate is too high, it allows calcium, an excitatory mineral, to enter the cells. This only makes matters worse. Progesterone also protects against calcium induced excitotoxicity, see here. This could account for the sleep problem too. So I would avoid the calcium, besides one of the roles of vitamin D is to draw it from the gut. Just use the magnesium which is usually low. Progesterone is an excellent diuretic, so the frequent loo visits are due to this. There's more info on our Traumatic Brain Injury page. Vitamin D is excellent for sleep, see here and here. So is progesterone, see here. Both Progesterone and Vitamin D help Migraines. Magnesium is the most important cofactor for vitamin D, it's essential to take it. Vitamin K2 is another important cofactor, found chiefly in green leaves. It there's a likelihood of you having a deficiency then please take it. Continued below
Oct 06, 2013
 D3 and results Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Feather Magnesium 'oil' is an expensive con. All you have to do is mix 1% magnesium, Epsom Salts is best, with water and you'll get your magnesium 'oil', and far cheaper too! The ES contains sulphur too, one of the most healing of all minerals, and that is also absorbed via the skin, see here. Once you've mixed it up, you can either pour a little into your hands and rub it on, or get a spray bottle. A suffering thyroid often indicates a lack of vitamin D, see here, here, here, here, here and here. I would like to thank you for the link on the high dose vitamin D. I downloaded it immediately onto my kindle and have been reading it today! As he admits himself it's all anecdotal, but I'm not one to hold that against anyone. Besides if we waited for the RCTs to come out in favour of high doses we'd be long dead! I've experimented too, by taking 100,000iu per day for a month, then 50,000iu/day the next month, then 25,000iu/day the next, then down to 5000iu/day thereafter. It did bring my vitamin D levels up, but not as high as they are now. Which is between 230-250nmol/L. I'm currently taking 330,000iu and have been for a week now, as another experiment. It's certainly safe to go to 40,000iu per day if you want to increase your dose, see here. I'd been interested in your results when you get them. Take care Wray

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