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Houston...We Have A Problem...

by Lorraine
(Alamogordo, NM)

Hello,

I am 51 years old and going through the turmoil of perimenopause. My doctor had lab work done on me, and we discovered that my Estradiol level was 228, while my Progesterone level was 0.4. About 3 months had transpired without a period. My doctor prescribed bioidentical progesterone for me, which I have compounded at a pharmacy here in my town. Right now, I'm taking 150 mgs. of Progesterone a day. As soon as I started taking this stuff, I started bleeding for the first time in three months. I was literally passing clots the size of Granny Smith apples. I have insomnia, and I am experiencing slowness of thought and speech. I thought this stuff was supposed to help women sleep. If so, why haven't I slept more than two hours for two days in a row?

I know that Wray recommends that some women take much higher doses, but I can't afford to take 400 mgs. of natural progesterone cream when my insurance doesn't cover the cost.

I really don't know what to do at this point. I don't know if I'm taking too much or too little. I'm a writer and haven't been able to write because of the slowness of thought and the insomnia.

Should women in perimenopause with erratic cycles just take progesterone every single day, since they really don't have a cycle at this point. How much do you recommend I take?

I'm a very busy person, and I just don't have the time to spend hours on the Internet every single day researching health issues. I need quick answers to my problems so that I can get them solved and get on with my life.

Any suggestions? Is 150 mgs. a day not enough?

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Jan 12, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Lorraine!
400-1,000 mg a day user here for three years....I am 49. When it all began, I had your symptoms as well, along with so many others. You will find that with peri, your fast-paced lifestyle will come to a halt if you do not step back, slow down and "take" the time to research your issues. Things can and will get way worse if not taken care of. The doctors will continue to supply you with as many scripts as you require, but you are only putting a bandaid on the problem. You must get to the core and address it. Are you taking any supplements? Progesterone will not and cannot work alone. What works for one person will not work for another. You have to be the judge and it is all trial and error. 150 mg may help you today, but tomorrow your water pipe may freeze and break, like ours did five days ago and all of a sudden the stress is extremely high and you need 1,000 mg to replace all the progesterone your body is using to counteract the jolt of that stress and remember your body is hardly making any progesterone now and with the high stress level it's taking what little you have left to deal with that issue. There are no quick fixes, we all have extremely busy lives, hence the problems our bodies acquire, and stress is the utmost worse sabatoger to our bodies. As for the clots and resumed bleed...the progesterone is cleaning you out. It took me almost a year before the heavy bleeding/clotting finally subsided and yes, clots the size of golf balls. It was Niagara Falls, I'd stand up only to have them gush out, come down my pant leg, and out to the floor....most embarrassing. And the money issue, yes I can sympathize, most of us on here can; however, you will come to a point where you will put priority on your body and you will do what it takes to afford to heal it. You may want to look into Natpro...I would use that any day over anything a compounding pharmacy would make for me...look closely at the ingredients in your product and then look at Wray's. Golly, Wray's may be way cheaper than the compounded product. Hang in there, do some research on Wray's site because there is a lot more to this peri issue than just the progesterone...it's a whole body overhaul! God Bless! RJ
Jan 13, 2015
 NATPRO vs. COMPOUNDED HORMONES
by: Lorraine

Hi, RJ!

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my comments. If I had to increase my dosage of progesterone to 1000 mg. per day, I would probably have to switch to Natpro because I think that it would be completely unaffordable if I purchased this much from my compounding pharmacy. I have found that if I take 200 mgs. of progesterone a day, I became enraged, which is a very dangerous place to be. But when I lower the dose to 100 mgs. per day, the enragement goes away, and I am calm once more. I take plenty of supplements, in addition to natural dessicated thyroid. I have found that if I increase my dessicated thyroid, the bleeding doesn't become an issue. From what I have read, low thyroid function is a huge factor to consider when dealing with heavy bleeding.

I do believe that I am coming to the end of perimenopause, as I have been suffering horribly for many years now. I am now 51 years old. My mother reached full menopause by the time she was 50. My twin sister went through menopause pretty much without any problems. (A pox, by the way, on all women who have gone through perimenopause and menopause without any problems.)

Progesterone is helping me tremendously with fatigue. I find that without it, I become extremely tired.

In your comment, you mentioned that you would use NATPRO before you used any product compounded by a pharmacy. May I ask why this is? The hormones that are being compounded at my pharmacy are bioidentical, not synthetic. I was just wondering why you felt this way.

I'm somewhat nervous about using any over-the-counter bioidentical progesterone cream because of horrible experiences that I have had with these types of products in the past. Before I finally caved in and went to a compounding pharmacy, I tried 10 different progesterone creams. They all caused me to have asthma, and made my allergies worse. My guess is that this is because I may have been allergic to some of the byproducts in the cream. Since switching to compounded hormones, however, I have suffered no asthma or allergies. All I know is that EVERY SINGLE OVER THE COUNTER CREAM that I have used has given me a SEVERE allergic reaction and respiratory problems. Compounded hormones, however, do not produce this effect in me.
Jan 16, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Lorraine!
I noticed that you are using the word "hormones". Does your compound consist of hormones other than progesterone? Check the label on your compounded product....what are the hormones compounded in...are there preservatives, additives, synthetics? Natpro is entirely natural. Then you mentioned another big factor for using Natpro over others in that if you had to take that high dosage you could not afford it through a compound. Do not forget that as you increase the progesterone any excess estrogen is going to be jostled out of its' slumber and will begin to make you feel awful. That is why when issues arise I increase big...not in little increments because all that does is keep estrogen active and we want it inactive, dormant, dead, non-existent....you get the idea. Estrogen to me means cancer. Three years ago my mother had her thyroid taken out due to cancer and her progesterone her entire life has always been low as is her vitamin D level. Being a cancer survivor her levels should be at least in the high 80's or low 90's and it consistently stays in the mid 40's even with the supplementation of D. So, just because we are on a lot of supplements does not mean that they are working in unison with all the others. But again, with this peri nothing in our bodies is normal ever again LOL. Take care and the best to you with your passage into menopause...truthfully, I am looking forward to it! God Bless! RJ
Jan 17, 2015
 NATPRO vs. COMPOUNDED HORMONES
by: Lorraine

Hi, RJ!

I emailed my pharmacy and asked them what additional ingredients were put in the compounded hormones that they make. She said that the only other ingredient is Vanicream (whatever that is). She said that the progesterone powder is mixed in the Vanicream.

If you don't mind my asking....if you're taking 1000 mg. of NATPRO per day, how much does this cost you every month?
Jan 17, 2015
 NATPRO vs. COMPOUNDED HORMONES
by: Wray

Hi RJ and Lorraine Thought you might like to see what EWG have to say about Vanicream. Take care Wray
Jan 17, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Lorraine!
Natpro comes in 2,000 mg tubes. So, at a 1,000 mg a day a tube would last two days. But I do not do 1,000 mg often. It is only when my stress goes exceptionally high where I cannot handle it. Usually, my heart will start to race and I feel extremely anxious and that's my cue. What I usually do is start adding 100 mg an hour until the sensations go away. My main dosage is 400 mg a day...200 in the morning and 200 at night. If my spotting starts back up, which is good ole' estrogen, I usually go up to 600 mg a day until the spotting stops and then back down to 400 a day. I have tried many times to get by with 200 a day and it just does not work. I spot, clot, bleed heavy, heart races, cramping and am a true bear to live with, especially when my youngest son says mom you're crabby lol. So, does it get expensive...yes. But when you consider how much we pay for a tier 3 or specialty prescription drug, Natpro is cheap. Still hard to come up with the money, but if I didn't do it with Naptro then my money would be going to Kimberly-Clark for a gazillion supply of overnight pads. So, which comes first the chicken or the egg lol. The supplements help. If you are bleeding take 2,000 mg of NAC a day. That was Wray's first recommendation to me three years ago and it took my intestines a long time to get used to that high dosage but I do believe it is what has helped with the bleed and clots. And my husband take it also for his lung issue. Won't hurt you...our medical society gives it to lung disease patients, but at lesser dosages. As for that ingredient they use I have never heard of. Maybe Wray knows. But my feeling is anything coming from a pharmacy whether it is a compounding or traditional one cannot be natural. I'd google that ingredient and see what you come up with. God Bless! RJ
Jan 19, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Wray and Lorraine!
That's a thumbs' down on Vanicream. Like I said anything from any type of pharmacy is not natural. I DO NOT need any more endocrine disruption in my system nor do I need any further cellular changes....I have too much of that also LOL. Lorraine, be aware that this ingredient is an estrogen mimic and can cause issues all in itself. Hope all is well Wray! Here, 2015 has not begun well, our well pump quit the day after Christmas, try having no water with a house full of folks and two weeks ago a water pipe burst on the north side of our house, flooding it....ugh!....but as you have read over the years with this clan of mine, it is the story of our lives! Take care of yourself! God Bless! RJ
Jan 20, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: Wray

Hi RJ Yes, not something I would want to put on my skin. I've noticed many compounding pharmacists use it to make up their progesterone cream. All's well this end bless you, so sorry to hear abut the well and the burst water pipe! But do hope all the other trials you've been going through are sorted, I'm thinking of your husband in particular. Blessings to you, take care Wray
Jan 25, 2015
 I Think Progesterone Prolongs A Woman's Menopause
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray and RJ!

Thank you both for taking the time to respond to my inquiries, etc. Truth be told, however, I believe that going back on progesterone has been a setback in my life more than it has helped.

Two years ago, I had to go off of bioidentical progesterone cream (compounded) because it was causing me to hemorrhage month after month. Because I was losing so much blood, my ferritin level dropped to 21, my hair started falling out, and my thyroid gland started to dysfunction. (The thyroid gland will not function properly if your ferritin level is not at 70 - 90.)

I went off progesterone cream. It took a year to get my ferritin levels back to where they should be and to get my hair to stop falling out. An entire year! But my anemia did go away and all was well. Not only this, but I stopped getting periods, which was wonderful. I'm 51 years old, and was hoping that this was the beginning of menopause. Four months had passed without a period. I read that once a woman goes an entire 12 months without getting a period, she has reached full menopause, so I was excited and counting. Four down...eight more months to go.

But then I started to experience horrible fatigue and thyroid problems because my progesterone level was now so low. My doctor wanted to put me back on progesterone, but I told her that I didn't want to go back to the hemorrhaging and severe cramping, especially when I had been period-free for 4 months. But because the fatigue was becoming so debilitating, and the low progesterone was causing problems with my thyroid gland, I had no other choice but to go back on progesterone cream.

As soon as I went back on progesterone, my monthly periods resumed to my great dismay, and what periods they have been! I am now back to severe cramping and hemorrhaging. I have been hemorrhaging for 5 days in a row now.

The progesterone is wonderful as far as eradicating fatigue is concerned, but it is causing me to have problems in other areas of my life, and in my opinion, the cons far out way this one pro.

We want to be DONE with menstruation when we are in our fifties. We don't want menstruation to perpetuate itself. I truly believe that when women take progesterone cream, they actually prolong their own menopause. Here I was, enjoying four months of no periods, well on my way to menopause. As soon as I started taking progesterone, the floodgates opened one more, I resumed monthly periods, and the hemorrhaging, severe cramping, and anemia have returned once more.

I do not want to get periods every month. I want them to stop. They did stop for 4 months. Now, because I started taking progesterone cream, they're back with a vengeance.

I think that progesterone cream will work for me AFTER I have gone into full menopause and no longer get periods. If I did not have a uterus, progesterone would be an absolute God-send. But as long as I am still menstruating, taking progesterone will only continue to produce disastrous consequences for me.

I think that I will go off progesterone, wait until I've been in full menopause for 12 months straight, and then return to progesterone. I simply cannot take progesterone while I am still menstruating. I've tried and tried and tried and tried and tried. All I do is hemorrhage.

I really am in a no-win situation over here.
Jan 29, 2015
 I Think Progesterone Prolongs A Woman's Menopause
by: Wray

Hi Lorraine Thanks for the detailed update, it helps. Firstly progesterone cannot cause your periods to recur or prolong Menopause. It's oestrogen which causes the lining of your uterus to grow, and the drop in progesterone at the end of the cycle causes it to bleed. Evidently you are still producing enough oestrogen to cause your lining to grow. I've found in some cases progesterone alone is not enough to stop the bleeding, it does need help. You are short of taurine, see here, the papers says "A lack of taurine is found in endometrial cancer, cystic endometrial hyperplasia, fibromyoma (fibroids), and dysfunctional uterine bleeding", probably vitamin D too and you need to take both N-acetyl cysteine and the bioflavonoids to help heal your uterus. Please have a Vitamin D test done as soon as possible. Then get your level up high, plus take all those supps listed above. The heavy, continual bleeding will stop. There's more info on our page about Menstruation. You could also take a look through our pages on Peri-menopause and Menopause. If you find the above protocol does not help, then you could try tranexamic acid. It's given to treat or prevent excessive blood loss during surgery. And heavy menstrual bleeding. It appears to be safe, see here, here, here, here and here. It is a synthetic derivative of the amino acid lysine, see here. One has to wonder why lysine itself is not used. Much as analogues of vitamin D are used in preference to vitamin D. There's no money in giving vitamin D, but for the drugs there are. Unfortunately I can't find any study using lysine, they all revert to tranexamic acid. Take care Wray
Jan 29, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Lorraine!
I do understand what you are saying. Each of us are unique and different. Progesterone for me has been a miracle. I bled like you did initially. Bled out of my pants on some days with clots the size of golf balls....went on non-stop and for over a year I suffered and battled with it. With the help of Wray's I continued on with the cream. Three years later, now age 49, I can tell you it has worked wonders. Last Friday I started flowing, light on Friday, Saturday thru Monday it was heavy, Tuesday and Wednesday lightened up considerably and today it's almost over. I haven't had that cycle for over 15 years. I know in your first post you stated you cannot afford 400 mg a day and it may be because you are not taking that high of dosage that all you are doing is activating estrogen which will make you bleed and bleed and bleed. The heavy continuous bleed is estrogen and if you do not take high enough progesterone that bleed will never stop because you need progesterone to be the dominant hormone. Also, it may be there's something in that compounding formula that is causing estrogen to go crazy too. That main ingredient your pharmacist said was in their product is not good for you....it's an estrogen mimic. Again, I understand your situation and hope you find some balance along the way. It scares me because in my mind it's that low progesterone that allows estrogen to have it's way and then allows cancer to come in and play too. I see progesterone as our bodies' shield against female cancers. Just my view and why I'll continue on with it. Price Wray's cream, it may be more affordable for you than you compounded cream and you can take the higher dosage. God Bless! RJ
Jan 30, 2015
 Okay....I'll Try NATPRO
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray! Hi, RJ!

Thank you both for taking the time to respond to my inquiries.

I just tried to order some NATPRO, but it is currently out of stock, so for now, I have no other choice but to use the hormones that are compounded at my pharmacy (Vanicream and all).
I already take 5,000 IU of Vitamin D daily. I will now start taking Taurine, N-Acetyl Cysteine and Bioflavonoids as well. I hope that I can take the Taurine, N-Acetyl Cysteine and Bioflavonoids all together. I have to take iron with my breakfast, and since iron interferes with everything under the sun, I have to take the rest of my supplements with my other meals all together.

I'm wondering if taking the progesterone while bleeding would be better for me instead of going off of it while I menstruate. My periods are erratic now, so it's pretty hard to follow a cycle. Also, I've noticed that when I stop taking the progesterone cream, I go into Mr. Hyde mode and become unfit for human companionship. I know that some women stay on progesterone even while they menstruate in order to avoid the hormonal rollercoaster ride which inevitably ensues once one goes off progesterone.

Thank you both for being so helpful. Hopefully, the NATPRO will be back in stock soon! If I have to take high doses to combat this, very well. I believe that Wray's product will be much more affordable than my compounded hormones. Plus, it doesn't have the Vanicream that you both warned me about.
Feb 02, 2015
 Okay....I'll Try NATPRO
by: Wray

Hi Lorraine Thank you for considering the Natpro, but I really don't mind what brand you use! RJ is so supportive of me, I'm sure she can bully an Inuit into buying ice! You can take those supplements all together, I also suggest you increase your Vitamin D, the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. I would strongly suggest you do not take a break! It can send you into Mr Hyde mode, plus perpetuate the bleeding. When I first started using progesterone I found my symptoms came back during the break, so badly I too became a monster, so I chose to use it daily in spite of regular cycles. And remember you should be able to reduce the amount of progesterone once those supplements have kicked in. I certainly hope so. Apologies about the stock out, we had so many last year I thought they were over now. But this one is caused by the shut down by the lab over Christmas. Let us know how you get on. Take care Wray
Feb 02, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Lorraine!
Wray you are too funny!!! Lorraine, do not stop taking it as your cycles will never be regular again....for me it will be everyday until I die. As for the vitamins, take them together separate, some at night, some in the morning...it doesn't matter. Let me tell you the arsenal I take...well I just decided not too as the list was going on and on...LOL I take lots. Something I didn't know that I read from Wray (see we learn something new everyday..hehehe) is lysine is given in synthetic form to stop bleeding. Well I follow the Linus Pauling Therapy for heart health and I take 6,000 mg ascorbic acid, 3,000 mg lysine and 1,000 mg proline a day and mix it with a half a teaspoon or a bit more of baking sodium so the ascorbic acid doesn't bother the tummy...what I created was sodium ascorbate...but that's expensive to buy. There are so many supps that we need because our soils are so sterile. It's a sad state of affair. If you are concerned about mixing the supps with your iron, just introduce them slowly...like a new one every other day. And none of them will interfere with Natpro. I take over 20 different supplements a day with it and have non-stop for three years and haven't had an issue. I buy a good portion of them in bulk from purebulk.com. No additives...nothing and if you ask them for the purity report on each supp, you will find they have almost no toxic metals or chemicls in them. Anyway,put your name on Wray's contact list and when Natpro is back in they will notify you, but order it quick because once that notification goes out to everyone it will sell out just as quick. Think of it this way, if the product didn't do what Wray says it does, you would not have a problem trying to purchase it. And know that I have no ties to Wray's product..it's only something that saved an insane woman three years ago...well that and Wray's advice. So, I just try to pass it along to everyone that I can...why suffer. Yes, a person may have a problem that needs medical attention and I understand that, but most of us on here do not have that issue, it's just our hormones are out of whack and the doctors think we are whackier for doing anything other than what they say. Good luck to you and most of all be patient! Oh and that bear-like attitude...you bet it happens when I do not use it and my family lets me know about it. You'll know when you need it and for me that's everyday LOL. God Bless! RJ
Feb 03, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: Wray

Hi RJ Hahaha! You make me laugh too! I'm so interested to hear about Pauling's heart health protocol. I know his take on vitamin C of course, but not the addition of those two aminos. As you say we never stop learning. I sometimes make a natural fizzy drink by adding together 3tsp ascorbic acid and 1tsp sodium bicarbonate, it's delicious, unless you add too much baking sodium! It's also good for cystitis too. I thought you said you had the little machine that can make up liposomal vitamin C? My brother bought one and now makes up the mixture for us all. It's tastes yuck though! Blessings to you, take care Wray
Feb 03, 2015
 Thanks For Being So Awesome
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray! Hi, RJ!

You both have been so very awesome with all of your help and advice. Thank you from the bottom of my heart...truly!

I have signed up to receive a notice when Natpro will be back in stock, and I have increased my Vitamin D to (10,000 IU) pursuant to Wray's advice.

I take about 18,000 - 24,000 mg. of ascorbic acid every day (big Linus Pauling fan over here), but I've never taken the Lysine or the Proline. I believe my husband is taking it, however. Now that you have mentioned that Lysine is used to stop bleeding, I shall add that to my regimen.

Thank you for informing me NOT to take a break from the progesterone while bleeding. Yes....I have noticed that when I stop, the bleeding definitely perpetuates itself, and we certainly don't want that.

My family can always tell when I go off the progesterone. My husband will stick his head in the doors of my daughters' bedrooms and say, "Heads up! Hyde is in the house!" What these poor people go through...

Question: If you take progesterone, and later on in the day you find yourself increasing in either anger or depression, should you INCREASE the progesterone, or is this a sign that you may be TAKING TOO MUCH? On Sunday morning I applied progesterone to myself. Several hours later, I became HORRIBLY DEPRESSED...we're talking scary. I didn't know if I should apply more or wash off what I had already applied, so I didn't do anything and just suffered for the rest of the day. My gut feeling told me to INCREASE, but since I wasn't certain what to do, I just did nothing, drank two glasses of wine and stared at a wall for the rest of the day.
Feb 03, 2015
 Regarding Hourly Increments...
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray! Hi, RJ!

I had one more question...

I read that some women have to take progesterone HOURLY when they feel their symptoms worsening.

How many milligrams of progesterone would you recommend if women have to resort to hourly increments? 25 mg.? 50 mg.? More?

Lorraine
Feb 12, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Wray!
Yes, that machine is a jewelry cleaner...it's that sonic shake that mixes it all together. But like you said...yuck. From what I have read and have understood when vitamin C is deficient in our bodies we get, essentially, scurvy of the veins. There are only three mammals on this planet that do not make C within their bodies....humans, monkeys/apes, and guinea pigs. A 150 pound goat makes 900 mg of vitamin C a day. So, what happens is our bodies are deficient in C so the body starts pulling from the collagen that we have within our bodies and there is a lot of it within our arteries. Now the walls of the arteries start breaking down and that's when the buildup of cholesterol comes because the lining of those arteries start to tear, for a better word. Well our bodies natural response is to rush to that site and fill it with something to plug it up so we do not bleed to death and that's where the cholesterol comes in...it's the plugger upper lol. So in order to get our veins healthy again and not so paper thin that they want to tear, we take vitamin C which gives our bodies what it needs so it doesn't pull from other collagen resources, such as our arteries and we take lysine because it is only lysine that cholesterol will attach to that is built up in those veins, once cholesterol attaches itself to the lysine molecule the body can now eliminate it. If you look at the list of things in certain statin drugs you will find lysine, synthetic form, of course, is in it. And like you said to someone about the heavy bleeding, lysine is given but in synthetic form and why they do not take the body preferred form is silly. Why take a drug when mother nature offers you one that the body will not reject. The protocol doesn't work well without all the supplements being used. That's probably why so many folks have problems with statins because they take the cholesterol away but forget to address the paper thin veins...learned this the hard way with my father. And dementia is a huge side effect of these statins...again learned from my dad. Currently, he wants to listen to his doctor who has him on Tricor and his mental capacity is declining rapidly because of it. As I told him, dad you are not going to die from high cholesterol...he's 80. I had him on the coconut regimen for quite some time and he was doing great and then the good ole doctor convinced him it was ineffective. Now, we're back at square one with him. Anyway, the proline was added into the protocol by another doctor after Pauling passed, I believe, because he also found that proline will keep the Lp(a) regulated after you have healed the veins. Truthfully, I do not take enough lysine or proline, it all starts to get pricey. But the last few days I have been listening to the Gut Summit offered by Donna Gates...wow does she look great....and she interviewed Dr. Josh Axe and he stated how important proline is in the healing of leaky gut. So, again, I learned something new. I do take that concoction every day and I did add baking soda to it to help all that C from bothering my stomach, but then I recently read that adding sodium bicarbonate to ascorbic acid, if not consumed within a two to four hour period, cuts the vitamin C effects by over fifty percent. So, I quit adding the baking soda, but I'm going to have to reintroduce because the C likes to play in my tummy if I don't. I just will have to take the amount and break it into a few drinks a day and then drink it within two hours and not all day like I used to do...you don't want to take that C all at once you need to keep the C active throughout the day...build a reserve and don't let it go down, helps the body more and you won't have bowel tolerance issues. Take care of yourself Wray and we'll talk soon! God Bless! RJ
Feb 20, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: Wray

Hi RJ Whew you have given a lot of info!! Thanks so much, hopefully it will encourage others to do as you have. Very fascinated by the lysine/proline combo. I've just heard today from a friend that one of hers has been diagnosed with Parkinson's and he has been on statins for years! There is so much contrary info I cannot fathom why anyone would take a statin. And so much in the way of natural remedies that can reverse ill health. I'm in the UK at the moment, so I'm getting behind answering, travelling around seeing friends etc! You suggested I listened to "The Virgin Diet: Food Intolerances and Weight Loss". Well I've managed the first few minutes, but will try to continue, always interested in gut health. My best is Dr Campbell-McBride who wrote a book called the GAPS diet, she cured her son of autism, see Gut and Psychology Syndrome. Take care! Wray
Feb 22, 2015
 Thanks For Being So Awesome
by: Wray

Hi Lorraine I do love your humour, and your husbands! I've just told a friend about his comment re Hyde being in the house, we both had such a good laugh! And the best antidote is definitely wine and staring at a wall! Seriously though, if the progesterone should cause any adverse symptom so suddenly, it's Oestrogen Dominance. It can be scary. I'm not sure how much you were using at the time, and your vitamin D level too, as that also plays a bearing. It does take time though. Hopefully RJ might make a comment on her experiences. Her info on lysine and proline was so interesting, I will be adding that to the heavy bleeding protocol. Take care Wray
Feb 24, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Lorraine!
Yes, I used to take it hourly in the very beginning. Cannot tell you how much I used because at that point I was desperately seeking a means to end the non-stop bleed so I just kept putting it on. I do not have to do that any more...haven't for quite some time now. When I get anxious and my heart starts racing I will come in and put some on and in a half hour I am more relaxed. And as Wray said, what you're feeling is estrogen...that nasty hormone that just annihilates a once-normal life. I am a bear too and very cloudy minded when it rears its ugly head. It's all estrogen...has to be because at our age we are hardly making progesterone...it's just a no-brainer. Medical science will tell us that once peri begins and we stop ovulating our bodies progesterone making abilities plummet but yet they can't see any reason in giving a woman progesterone and even bash progesterone usage to help relieve or completely eliminate all these quirky things that are happening to us now. And to read the one comment on here that a person's doctor said she shouldn't use any progesterone that the body quits making it for a reason....what a crime for that woman to suffer. As with anything as it ages it just doesn't work as it did when it was new, but that doesn't mean you just throw it away if you can do something to it to make it last longer. And think about all the female cancers out there...when do most of them happen..during peri and into menopause when the body isn't making progesterone any longer. All that said take it every hour if things are really bad. It has taken me three years to get some level of normalcy back into my life. Periods come and go...some are heavy...some light but it's nothing like it was when I first found Wray. Be patient. You will find the level that works for you and if it's heavy bleeding you are trying to stop..try NAC and lysine and if it's crabbiness try ginkgo. It's not all about progesterone...it cannot work all by itself it needs helpers. Take care and Wray enjoy your time with friends and good wine!!! God Bless! RJ
Mar 01, 2015
 Will 400 mg. Of Progesterone Stop A Period?
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray!

I started taking 400 mg. of progesterone just this week. This is the first time that I have ever taken this large amount before, but when I was taking 200 mg. a day, it wasn't enough to stop the heavy bleeding.

I thought I read somewhere on this forum, but I cannot recollect where, that usually, when women take 400 mg. of progesterone, they will NOT get a period. 400 mg. of progesterone will usually stop periods and prevent women from getting them.

Is this true? As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am 51 years old and want to continue menstruating about as much as I want to gnaw off my foot. Will 400 mg. stop periods from occurring? Please say, "Yes."
Mar 04, 2015
 400 mg. of progesterone seems to be causing depression
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray! Hi, RJ!

I have started taking 400 mg. of progesterone cream per day now for heavy bleeding. Since I am 51 years old and have erratic cycles that are impossible to follow, I take this high amount of progesterone DAILY without a break. I have only been on this high amount for about a week now, but I'm concerned because it seems to be causing me to be extremely depressed and anxious. Progesterone is supposed to be The Happy Hormone, but it's making me very depressed.

I have also noticed that every now and then I experience cramping in my uterus.

I don't know what to do. I'm going to be taking a trip to Philadelphia over the Easter holidays in order to see my family (whom I haven't seen in 8 years). I'm afraid that this depression is going to ruin the trip.

If I cut back on the dose, I'm afraid that I'll get a period, which is something that I don't want, since I tend to hemorrhage very badly when I menstruate. But this high amount of progesterone is causing depression and horrible anxiety.

What should I do?

I was taking NAC, which you recommended for heavy bleeding. Unfortunately, I had to go off of it, as it was causing me to experience hypertension and rapid heart rate. After doing some research on NAC, I learned that some people react negatively to NAC, and I happened to be one of them. So NAC, for me, is out.

What should I do about the progesterone?
Mar 05, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hi Lorraine!
Try lysine if you cannot take NAC. Boy I will say your complaints sound like ED to me. My heart raced so bad I went to the ER because I knew I was having a heart attack and I know when estrogen is raising in me because of that rapid heart rate and I just take more and it calms it down. Remember each time you increase the progesterone the estrogen gets real excited. That's why Wray has always said to folks start high to get the excited estrogen out of the way and then just hang steady at that dosage and slowly come down. If you are going from 400mg to 150mg within a 24 hour period, your body doesn't like that. Wray recommends decreasing dosage by no more than 16-30 mg, stay on that a few days and decrease again. If you are going up and down on dosages or missing them your body may not like that. And when we go up and down in dosages, there's estrogen having fun again. I cannot remember how long you have been on progesterone, but I finally took the plunge and went up to 500 mg for many months, I want to say a year, in the beginning before the clots and heavy bleed calmed down. The first month I spoke with Wray I bled straight for over a month. Then it would go with light to heavy again for another two weeks. Just bouncing all over the place. Scary and frustrating and the more of those two emotions we endure the higher the stress goes and the less progesterone our body makes and/or utilizes. It's a vicious cycle. I take 2-3,000 mg of lysine a day. I just learned from Wray a few weeks back that lysine is given in script form to woman to stop bleeding. It may help. As for the cramps, as Wray told me I had a "broken" uterus that needed much healing. One day we won't worry about the bleed any longer...instead we'll be worrying where we put our keys and what day of the week it is LOL. Hang in there! God Bless! RJ
Mar 06, 2015
 Legitimate Distributor?
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray!

I just ordered a bunch of tubes of Natpro. I've been told that they will be shipping from a distributor in Traverse City, Michigan. I'm somewhat nervous, because this particular shipper's name is now showing up on the Internet as bogus.

Is this a legitimate distributor?

Please respond ASAP. I want to make sure that I'm actually buying NATPRO and not some imitation product sold by a bottom-dweller simply using the NATPRO name and then selling his or her own concoction. We've got a lot of that going on in the United States.

Lorraine
Mar 09, 2015
 Legitimate Distributor?
by: Wray

Hi Lorraine Our fulfilment house is in Traverse City, so unless someone else is masquerading as them, I don't see who else it could be! Was there a name? Take care Wray
Mar 09, 2015
 Trevose, Michigan Distributor
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray!

I have pasted in the place on the Internet where someone was complaining about the Natpro distributor in Trevose, Michigan. I hope what I have pasted in goes through.

Joy sent me an email and gave me tracking information regarding my shipment.

Please don't misunderstand me. I trust you and your product. It's other people on the Internet whom I do not trust. The Worldwide Web is crawling with bottom-dwellers who never tire of looking for ways to rip people off.

After reading the "Rip Off Report," pasted in below, I was afraid that the Trevose, Michigan, distributor was not legitimate. But now that I have heard from you, my fears have been assuaged.

I'm looking forward to my shipment and can't wait to start Natpro!

Thanks for getting back to me!

Lorraine

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Natpro-LLC/internet/Natpro-LLC-Charles-fenwick-organic-products-LLC-Took-our-money-1-month-ago-and-havnt-recei-759293
Mar 17, 2015
 Ingredients In Compounded Progesterone
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray! Hi, RJ!

I just took a closer look at the ingredients which the pharmacy combines in order to make my progesterone cream. Let me know if this formula is no good:

Progesterone USP, PCCA Special Micronized
Ethoxy Diglycol Reagent
Simethicone USP (Med. Antifoam 'A' Compound)
Versabase
Propylene Glycol USP

The pharmacy that I had been using closed down, and this is a new pharmacy which has taken over all orders for compounded progesterone.

I'm somewhat suspicious because normally, when I use progesterone cream, my facial skin becomes smooth and soft. If I didn't use progesterone, my facial skin would be very dry. Since I started using this product, however, I've noticed that my skin is somewhat dry...just like it used to be before I started taking progesterone.

If I had to go by my facial skin, I'd swear there wasn't any progesterone in this product at all.

What do you think?

Lorraine
Mar 18, 2015
 Will 400 mg. Of Progesterone Stop A Period?
by: Wray

Hi Lorraine Yes some women do stop bleeding on 400mg/day but others don't. In fact it was because of these 'others' that I began looking into what other nutrients could be missing and came up with the protocol on our Menstruation page. Which I still have to update with the info RJ has given on the lysine and proline. If a woman is still menstruating naturally, i.e. it's not an abnormal bleed or heavy and continuous, then 400mg/day will not stop it. It has to be much higher. It's not dangerous to have no periods, in fact there seems some evidence that we have far too many, when compared with our ancestors, see here. This is another worth reading here. So you might have to gnaw off your foot in preference! Do you know when your mother stopped bleeding? As daughters tend to follow the same time line. Take care Wray
Mar 21, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Lorraine!
I would guess your dry face with the compounded product might be from the antifreeze it contains....just a funny. Lorraine google those ingredients...you're putting on some heavy petroleum by-products. It's not natural at all. Now that you have the Natpro coming to you, you will understand all the high marks it receives from all the people on Wray's site. Clean your face with coconut oil..no soap..rub it into your face then take a hot rag and wipe off then put Natpro on..it does wonders. As for the rip off report. When you are in business, you will always have unhappy folks. Twenty years ago there wasn't an internet to comment on and some folks just aren't happy unless they are complaining and now are elating they can vent to the entire world with stories that most folks would have just rolled their eyes and walked away from them back in the day. You cannot please everyone and there are two sides to all stories. I personally have not had a bit of trouble for three years nor have any of my family and friends, which have been alot and I do not think others have either from reading all the comments that come through Wray's site stating the positive effects her product has. Even in huge businesses their are mix ups...case in point with me today...Amazon billed me for the same product on two different credit cards I have and it's not fun trying to work that out with their customer service. Hang in there all those quirky things will eventually go. God Bless! RJ
Apr 22, 2015
 NATPRO Is Working Wonderfully!
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray!

For the past month I've been taking 200 mg. of Natpro daily (without a break, since I'm 51 years old and my periods are erratic).

I got my period this month, and it was LIGHT! Hallelujah! No hemorrhaging. No clotting. No flooding. No changing a pad every 20 minutes. I was actually able to sleep an entire night without having to get up every hour in order to change a pad.

Thank you for such a wonderful product! Please don't change any of your ingredients. As the saying goes, "it it ain't broken, don't fix it."

Manufacturers of products have a tendency to change their products, and when they do, they almost always lose their original effectiveness. So keep Natpro as is!

Have a blessed day!

Lorraine
Apr 23, 2015
 NATPRO Is Working Wonderfully!
by: Wray

Hi Lorraine Well you not only made me very happy, but gave me a good laugh with your enthusiasm! I think we have to thank RJ for bullying you into trying it! We have only ever changed the ingredients if we've come across one which is better. i.e. in the beginning (18 years ago) we only had the same 6, but back then we couldn't get any natural and/or organic ingredients. So as these have come on to the market we've switched to them. This was always our aim, even back then. Take care Wray
Apr 24, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: RJ

Hello Wray!
Sometimes we just have to take the plunge and yes, there are times I sound like a broken record. Why suffer? It's not going to hurt you or we wouldn't manufacture it in high amounts to create a life God gives to us. In the times we live in stress is at uncontrollable levels and the first thing to suffer is our health. Hope you are doing well Wray! I've been quiet on here...(still reading though, the rains are here and the winds will lift your skirts and shirts out there)...it's planting time YAH!! I'm trying some new crops this season and it required some massive tilling of new ground and man does my hindend burn from all that bending over. The tractor does the majority of it but you still have to pull the grass and weeds out and all the rocks that grow in these parts lol. We aren't glysophate users here...our weed control is our hands. Take care of yourself...watch that stress now. And Lorraine just keep taking it and incorporate those supplements too. Three years and going strong with Natpro! God Bless! RJ
Apr 30, 2015
 Houston...We Have A Problem...
by: Wray

Hi RJ Good to hear from you. I had noticed you'd been quiet, but with all the work on your hands it's not surprising! So relieved you're not using the glyphosate, although I can't imagine you doing so. I've followed that horror story since it's inception, and all the lies that surround it's use. Particularly disgusting is the attack on farmers who don't grow GM crops, but are accused of doing so as 'evidence' is found on their farms. Take care! Wray
May 05, 2015
 Measurements
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray!

I noticed that it says that each tube of Natpro contains 60 grams (6,000 mg. progesterone). I take 300 mg. of Natpro per day. That should mean that my tube should last 20 days, but it doesn't. It only lasts about a week. Maybe I'm not measuring right. I take 1/2 teaspoon of Natpro in the morning, 1/2 teaspoon of Natpro in the afternoon, and a final 1/2 tsp of Natpro right before going to bed. I was under the impression that 1/2 teaspoon of Natpro = approximately 100 mg.

Am I measuring improperly? I must be doing something wrong because I know that my tubes are not lasting 20 days.

Math was my worst subject in school, but I'm a hell of a cook. Hope to hear from you soon!

Lorraine
May 06, 2015
 Measurements
by: Wray

Hi Lorraine Yes it's very evident your maths is not up to much! Pity I can't try your cooking though! One of the problems lies in what is a teaspoon, and how full a person fills it. In the SI or metric system it's exactly 5ml, meaning a flat 5ml. But the Americans and British chose to be different! Both have 'teaspoons' that are slightly smaller, although both do subscribe to the SI system, i.e. they were both founders of it along with the French and some EU nations. As the rest of the world use the SI system I stick with that, particularly as all scientific disciplines use it. The cream is a 3.33% strength, which means each ml or gram contains 33.3mg progesterone. So 5ml of cream is 5 x 33.3mg which works out to be 166.5mg. I generally round it up to 170mg. So 1/2 tsp or 2.5ml equals 83.25mg, not that I expect anyone to achieve that! Unless using a very accurate scale. So you are using 1 1/2tsp of cream per day, or 83.25mg x 3 which is 249.75mg/day. Divide this into 2000mg and you get 8 days. So your guesstimate is correct. Your initial mistake was thinking there are 6000mg progesterone in a tube, there's 2000mg. If you look at the back of the tube in the ingredients list you'll see it written there. If you want to cut back because of cost please do so very slowly, i.e. ±1/2ml per reduction, staying on that amount for a few days. If you want to make the tube last 20 days then you will have to use 100mg/day, or 3ml of cream. Take care Wray
May 06, 2015
 Measurements
by: Lorraine

Hi, Wray!

Yes, after I sent my comment to you I realized that I erred. When I checked again, I noticed that there was 2,000 mg. of progesterone in each tube, not 6,000 mg.

Right now I'm taking 300 mg. of progesterone per day (without a break). I would like to reduce it to 200 mg. per day, but I will do so slowly.

I believe that if I attempt to take less than 200 mg. per day, this will create problems for me, and my fatigue will come right back. I've noticed that if I do not take high amounts of progesterone, I become very fatigued, and my brain becomes foggy.

I have been very pleased with Natpro. The only problem that I'm having right now is constipation. I'm reading conflicting reports on the Internet. Most of the websites that I have been looking at say that progesterone tends to constipate women, which is why so many pregnant women suffer from it during their pregnancy. Others say the opposite. As soon as I can get this little problem worked on, I'll be doing much better!

Thanks for getting back to me!

Lorraine
May 06, 2015
 Measurements
by: Wray

Hi Lorraine So your maths isn't that bad! Oestrogen causes water retention, it does this by a number of means but one of them is causing water in the gut to be re-absorbed back into the body. Many women suffer from this, generally because they are not using enough. Or, as in your case, it does take time to settle down as your symptoms were bad. Many women suffer from the reverse in fact, they find they get diarrhoea and spend a great deal of time urinating. Progesterone is a excellent diuretic. Take care Wray

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