Hormonal bipolar Menstrual psychosis the answer.

by Gay

How Natpro changed my life

My bipolar has always been hormonal it started when I was 15 I can actually predate it on a calendar It will start at ovulation and go for 23 days, OR start 3 days before my period continuing until after my periods stop about 8 days all up. (Some months I ovulate and some months I don’t) I had a small period of time when Sodium valproate worked but it slowly stopped working over a couple of months and my illness increased in intensity and excitement until it was back to my normal level. I have never had any success with any other drug including contraceptives I found they always increased the symptoms. A few years ago I found a web site that said it was catamenial epilepsy it had links that proved it but this site seems to be long gone? Anyway to cut a long story short Natural progesterone is used to manipulate catamenial epilepsy and it worked so well for me that I now live a normal life and I have for years. I don’t believe I have a mood disorder I have a hormone imbalance No progesterone and high prolactin levels (high prolactin can be a side effect of seizures) prolactin interferes with the menstrual cycle. I take no medications other than using natural progesterone cream twice a day in the latter half of my cycle and sometimes during my period. My mother had postnatal psychosis and has never had any other problems with her mental health. My niece is now having intense anxiety that can be dated to her menstrual cycle she is 12. I feel strongly PMDD is a misdiagnosis for her. I have included some links so that any women can make informed decisions about hormonal bipolar or PMDD that does not respond to the medications that are prescribed. PMDD is an ABNORMAL response to NORMAL hormone levels. Bipolar you should not be able to DATE IT to your menstrual cycle (reading in the forums indicates that progesterone does not work for everyone). Make sure your doctor sticks to the diagnostic guide lines or find one that does. Or better still get the right diagnosis.

A case of recurrent premenstrual psychosis Am J Psychiatry 1991;148:147a-147

Psychoneuroendocrine Aspects of Temporolimbic Epilepsy Part III: Case Reports (the behaviour disturbance and progesterone link with epilepsy, how and why it works.
Psychosomatics 40:2, March–April 1999

Be aware creams and lozenges have different dosing guidelines, cream is a lot lower.

Catamenial Patterns and causes

Posticatal prolactin testing

Recovery from "Schizophrenia"

Natural progesterone for PMS psychosis

Thank You for the chance to tell my story.

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Feb 11, 2013
Thank you and a few questions.......
by: Anon

Thanks so much for posting your story Gay for us and I'm SO glad you found an answer to your terrible symptoms - there are no words for inner torment like that. I am new to Natpro but sadly not anxiety/depression/"bipolar". Please can you tell me if you used/using the cream or other method as one of your quotes "stated cream was like spitting on a forest fire" and just wondered if I will get enough by cream alone? If you use the cream what level did you have to go up to to feel better? Many thanks

Feb 13, 2013
Hormonal bipolar Menstrual psychosis the answer
by: Wray

Hi Gay Thank you for sharing it with us! And thanks for the web links, I've saved all the papers as I didn't have them. Apart from the one from Alternative Mental Health, a site I visit often. I've made them active for ease of use. As I've just said to one correspondent, the ignorance surrounding the problems women face is appalling. They're usually dismissed as all in our minds, and we're given drugs. Often benzos for the anxiety, but there is not a more addictive, dangerous drug on the market, they put heroin, cocaine etc in the shade. They work by activating the GABA receptor sites, GABA being our most calming neurotransmitter. But have shocking side affects, whereas progesterone, a potent anxiolytic, also calms by activating GABA, with no adverse side affects. Progesterone is also effective for 'catamenial' epilepsy, or for any 'menstrual psychosis'. Catamenial is a misnomer, referring specifically to the few days before bleeding, problems can occur at ovulation, and are often worse. The cause is the same, excess oestrogen, low progesterone, so the ratio becomes unbalanced. Even though blood tests reveal levels are in the 'normal' range. It's always been believed, and still is by everyone including the medical profession, that progesterone is only produced by the corpus luteum after ovulation. But as far back as 1930 it was thought there must be another source. This was confirmed in the 1960's, and re-confirmed in the 1980's, that there is an exponential rise of progesterone about 50 hours prior to ovulation. This surge comes from the brain, see here, here, here and here. Oestrogen also rises exponentially about 50 hours prior to ovulation. Unless there is the progesterone surge too, there is nothing to counter the oestrogen effect. This explains why many women get migraines, seizures, palpitations, panic attacks and asthma attacks around ovulation. The same reasoning can be applied to the symptoms that occur during progesterone withdrawal prior to bleeding. And to those which occur during the luteal phase, as oestrogen also rises again mid-luteal phase. If a woman has a defective luteal phase, i.e. her corpus luteum is not producing sufficient progesterone, or she doesn't ovulate that month, severe symptoms continue throughout. Continued below

Feb 13, 2013
Hormonal bipolar Menstrual psychosis the answer Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Gay Dr Dalton, who had rooms in Harley Street, first used progesterone injections for her patients in 1948, having been cured of migraines by her doctor with progesterone. Her first 6 cases were 2 women having a seizure, 2 with an asthma attack, and two with migraines, all six found instant relief from their attacks. She used it for preeclampsia, for post natal depression and psychosis, for PMS, noting in one paper that this had been cured in 1941 by doctors knowledgable about it, see here. And yet we still suffer, there are over 4 million women in the States alone who have PMS each month. Not to mention those with depression/anxiety during puberty, I was one, post natal depression, which I also had, plus severe symptoms hitting us again in Peri-menopause, which also occurred with me. This 2005 paper says "This paper reviews the literature on menstrual psychosis .......The world literature consists mainly of case reports; they include a few with data good enough for a statistical demonstration of the link between onset and menses. These well-documented cases include examples of pre-menstrual, catamenial, paramenstrual and mid-cycle onsets, and continuous illnesses with phasic shifts rhythmic with the menstrual cycle. In sufferers, episodes seem to be concentrated around the menarche and after childbirth. The clinical picture resembles that of puerperal psychosis, and there are at least 20 women who have suffered both psychoses at different epochs in their lives." 20 cases?! It continues with "Both seem to fall within the manic depressive rubric, so that menstruation can be another trigger of a bipolar episode. Some work suggests an association with anovulatory cycles. The first observations of a possible connection between menstruation and psychological disorder appeared in the 18th century. In 1858, Schlager (8) thoroughly reviewed the influence of menstruation on established mental illness, epilepsy, admission to mental hospital, suicide and crime......classification was the presenting symptoms e.g., kleptomania, pyromania, dipsomania, nymphomania, homicidal mania......introduced a temporal classification, under the headings of menstrual developmental psychosis, ovulation psychosis (single, relapsing and periodic) and epochal menstrual psychosis.....In 1914, Jolly revised this classification, emphasising the stage of reproductive life: psychoses starting before the menarche, at the menarche, at the menopause, recurrent menstrual psychosis, and epochal cases.....In spite of the excellence of these clinical observations and the eminence of v. Krafft-Ebing, the concept was not universally accepted. Indeed, it is probable that many psychiatrists have no knowledge of this disorder." Continued below

Feb 13, 2013
Hormonal bipolar Menstrual psychosis the answer Part 3
by: Wray

Hi Gay I would agree! See here. We also have a page on Epilepsy you could look through, and another on Anxiety. "Bipolar' can be caused by excess sugar. As one psychiatrist ironically puts it, take them off the sugar and the bipolar goes, does this still make them bipolar? See here. Unfortunately oestrogen makes us more susceptible to having a sweet tooth and cravings, see here. It's also an excitatory, inflammatory hormone, it stimulates glutamate, our most excitatory neurotransmitter, see here. It increases free radicals, see here. Plus destroying beta-endorphin neurons in the brain, these produce endorphins which promote a feeling of well being and relaxation. Beta-endorphins also appear to boost the immune system, protecting against cancer, see here. So excess oestrogen raises the seizure threshold. Whereas progesterone protects against glutamate toxicity, it also increases BDNF (brain-derived neuroptrophic factor) in itself protective, see here and here. It also protects against calcium induced excitotoxicity, see here. I'm sure your niece can be helped with progesterone, you would know best how to advise her, but I wouldn't suggest less than 200mg/day. It's safety is unparalleled, even for infants, see here. Please could you get her to have a vitamin D test done. Continued below

Feb 13, 2013
Hormonal bipolar Menstrual psychosis the answer Part 4
by: Wray

Hi Gay A lack of this reduces the benefits of progesterone, see here, here and here. Plus causes depression and anxiety, and much more. Most people living in the UK have far too low a level. Unfortunately mislead by the NHS's 'adequate' level of 50nmol/L, even the FDA have now raised theirs to 75nmol/L. Specialists are saying it should be no less than 125nmol/L, better if in the 175-250nmol/L range. Birmingham Hospital send out test kits for £25 and the results back by email. You might like to contact Julienne via her website here. She can give further advice, she lives in London and is currently advising someone about their 17 year old daughter, see here. Take care Wray

Feb 13, 2013
Thank you and a few questions.......
by: Wray

Hi there I think you must have overlooked what Gay wrote at the top of the page.......How Natpro changed my life. It would be interesting to hear how much she used. Unfortunately people who write things like "cream was like spitting on a forest fire" evidently haven't read the studies showing it is absorbed well. We also run Saliva Tests showing the progesterone in the Natpro is. You might like to read the story on our Traumatic Brain Injury page. One woman wrote in saying her step son was involved in an accident followed by a coma. After 6 days they said to her there was nothing more they could do for him, and to prepare herself. She discovered progesterone had successfully reversed comas, but via IV transfusion. She knew it would be impossible to get the doctors to do that, so used the Natpro she herself used. He came out of the coma and is now, a year later, doing very well, with little sign of the disability they so often have. Take care Wray

Mar 24, 2013
How much progesterone I use
by: Just Me

I have used progesterone cream for my menstrual psychosis for years. I aim to get my progesterone level in to the normal range 3 times a day. The body does not make progesterone only at 7 o’clock in the morning it’s a continual process in a 24 hour day. I put on 15 milligrams of progesterone when I first get up in the morning (dont wash it off in the shower) and depending on the day I put on a further 15 milligrams just after lunch and again before I go to bed. If you go and look at a chart that shows the hormone levels of the menstrual cycle you will be able to see better how progesterone levels change in the month so you know where you want to be with your levels.

This psychosis is characterized by increasing psychomotor excitement for 7–14 days prior to menstruation, followed by psychomotor retardation during menstruation. It is commonly associated with temporal lobe EEG abnormalities. ANDREW G. HERZOG, M.D., M.SC.

So after reading the above quote you should better understand why it starts a bit slow and then increases in intensity until you get your period and then your brain just drops of the planet while you have your period. I change the amount of progesterone I use during the month I start at ovulation just using it once a day in the morning after one or two days I go to twice a day gradually building to three times a day. During my period I drop back to once a day I never cut it back until I get my period it is totally unsafe for me to do so. I only have nine days when I use no progesterone (but to start with I was using it all month long) Unfortunately menstrual psychosis is a disease of ridicule doctors being the worst and there is a lot of misinformation out there. I have no doubt I self-treat catimenial epilepsy. I break my country’s laws and buy progesterone on line no doctor will write scripts for the amounts I need they only offer pills that don’t work ( antipsychotics and contraceptives so I am reduced to importing illegal steroids progesterone) it’s a joke that psychiatrists are calling this untreatable bipolar it does not meet the diagnostic guide lines for bipolar. The self-proclaimed worldwide expert needs to write a paper clearly stating what the difference is between these twin illnesses until then it will remain an underground illness and how many young girls will lose their lives to untreatable mental illness because of this horrific misdiagnosis. Doctors need to stop laughing and start helping.

Mar 25, 2013
How much progesterone I use
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks for your input, always good to know progesterone is helping someone. Particularly with the psychosis. It seems you are only using 45mg/day, I'm amazed this has helped you. I don't have, and never had had psychosis, but still need about 170mg/day! We have many women who are using 1000mg/day and over to help their symptoms. It is better to use it a minimum of twice a day, I often tell women to use it hourly if symptoms are severe. There is still a huge ignorance about the suffering women go through with the changing hormone levels, usually we're told it's all in our minds and to pull ourselves together. It is about time they started helping in a practical manner and not with drugs. Take care Wray

Jul 17, 2013
Progesterone its really working
by: Anonymous

just wanted to say i read this post a while a go i brought progesterone and it really does work.
epilepsy makes a bit of sense it reads more like me than bipolar. i find if i use to much progesterone i get really slow not depressed just vacant sort of. Don't know how to explain it i lose a lot of time might be a better explanation. just thought i would come back and maybe help someone else my life is really good now i don't fear my periods anymore and i can do what i want any day of the month now i don't go insane anymore.

Jul 18, 2013
Progesterone its really working
by: Wray

Hi there So pleased the site helped you. Thanks for sharing this with us, it is such good news. Take care Wray

Jun 01, 2015
Menstrual psychosis Acute intermittent porphyria comparisons
by: Anonymous

Menstrual Psychosis runs in our family and we treat it with natural progesterone and a modified diet that is basically high carb, gluten and dairy free. I do not believe it is bipolar and through the years I have kept searching for answers. Is PMDD psychosis a hormonal? exacerbation of an underlying undiagnosed illness? Could luteal defects cause this exacerbation?
Could replacing the missing hormones remove the exacerbation? What might trigger uncontrollable catamenial seizures in some women?

I firmly believe menstrual psychosis is acute intermittent porphyria!(AIP)with or without diagnosed catamenial seizures!
Four of the porphyrias cause acute neurological symptoms. AIP is renowned for menstrual cycle related attacks. Very little research has been done on this rare illness.

Porphyria is an old disease recognized through history to be associated with psychosis. Before the invention of flushing toilets people used commodes and it was noticed that the urine would sometimes change colour when left to stand.In such instances people noted that the urine went purple or reddish brown and this colour change was associated with a type of psychosis. This colour change and psychosis were both considered to be symptoms of porphyria. In modern times however, psychosis is not really recognized as a symptom of porphyria.

If you look into the older literature on porphyria you find that menstrual psychosis was once a recognized presentation of this illness.Now these women are dumped into the mental health systems around the world and given pills that do not work. I now know that it is highly likely I have a genetic disease of metabolism called Porphyria.

(Even though i had medical tests that came back negative.) As far as i am concerned I passed the "poor mans porphyria test" this involves placing urine in the sun in order to note any change in colour. In two hours the urine in the sun had turned a deep brown black with a red tinge and looked like watery blood. Testing needs to be done in the middle of an acute attack. As my attacks are menstrual cycle related and i can treat these attacks by replacing my missing hormones i will probably never pass a porphyria test.

The papers you might want to read are

The little imitator porphyria; a neuropsychiatric disorder
Psychiatric symptoms
The occurrence of monthly luteal phase attacks in women, in whom the disorder seems more common, may lead to the false diagnosis of premenstrual tension or cycliod psychosis being made

Notice in this next paper they are talking about complete menstrual cycles. So what might happen to a young women with luteal defects, anovulation or amenorrhoea? So could you treat it with the replacement of the missing hormones?

Women with acute intermittent porphyria have a defect in 5-steroid production during the menstrual cycle
Decreased levels of the 5α-reduced progesterone metabolite allopregnanolone were found in the menstrual cycle of women with acute intermittent porphyria. This has previously not been reported and could indicate a reduced 5α-reductase type 1 capacity in the ovary and liver among these women.

The Acute Porphyrias
Acute attacks are often provoked by drugs such as barbiturates, sulfonamide antibiotics, anti-seizure drugs, rifampin, metoclopramide, and alcohol. Attacks in women may occur after ovulation and during the last part of the menstrual cycle when progesterone levels are high. Reduced food intake, often in an effort to lose weight, as well as infections, surgery, and stressful situations may also precipitate attacks

( Attacks in women may occur after ovulation and during the last part of the menstrual cycle when progesterone levels are high????)
Has anyone ever checked to see if these women have any progesterone in them?

The Epilepsy Link I often wonder if there is at times a missed underlying cause? Other than hormones?

Psychoneuroendocrine Aspects of Temporolimbic Epilepsy Part III: Case Reports ANDREW G. HERZOG, M.D., M.SC.
Case 1. Bipolar Disorder Ms. B. is a 29-year-old woman with depression, considered to be bipolar illness, dating back to her teens. For about 2 weeks before each menstrual period, she would become progressively more irritable, depressed, angry, argumentative, and aggressive. She would stay in her house, overeat and feel panicky, nervous, and sometimes suicidal. As menstruation approached, confusion, paranoid ideation, and other delusions developed, often to the point of frank psychosis.

I know its a lot of information to take in, but if you go and read up on AIP it will make a little bit more sense. It is easier to self-treat if you know what you are self-treating.

Jun 27, 2015
Absolutely fascinating connection
by: Lee

Absolutely fascinating connection. Misdiagnosed porphyria? You need to see an expert on porphyria.
Find a Porphyria Support Group they would be better able to help with tests for correct diagnosis.

Acute attacks of porphyria are often provoked by hormonal changes, psychosis is also associated with porphyria. Psychiatric symptoms occur during the attack in a quarter to three-quarters of cases, and at times dominate the clinical picture. They include depression and disturbed behaviour. This condition may resemble psychosis with symptoms including social withdrawal, auditory hallucinations, persecutory delusions, and catatonia. Delusions and hallucinations are especially common.

Porphyria is not common, but is often missed when it presents in psychiatric practice. It should be considered whenever there is a long history of intermittent physical and psychological complaints.

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