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Dosage information

by Kylie
(Australia)

I am confused by the information on your site regarding dosage for progesterone cream. On your "progesterone therapy" page you mention how tests on the blood to determine progesterone levels are of little value. You say salvia tests are more reliable. You also mention how tests of plasma 'would show up little or no progesterone." But on the " how to use progesterone cream' page you cite a 2005 study that showed that a 20-40mg dosage "only low plasma progesterone levels were found."

These results were from obtained from blood serum, not salvia. But you quote this study result as the reason why the usual recomended dosage of 20-40mg is not useful and therefore dosage should be much higher. Your site is the only site where I have seen such high dosages (up to 400mg daily) suggested. I'm left to believe that the reason why you are suggesting such high dosages is because you are selling the product Natpro, and the higher the dosage of the cream, the higher the sales for your site. I feel you're biased as far as your information is concerned and that using that study is misleading and contradictory and confusing.

Comments for Dosage information

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Dec 27, 2016
 Doseage information
by: Danielle

Hi Kylie
Did you get a reply to this question? Please share if you did
Thanks Danielle
Dec 27, 2016
 For the confused
by: Anonymous

If you really took the time to read Wray's comments to hundreds of women, you would realize that she does NOT push her product on anyone and has helped many many women. Me being one of them. Never once pushing her cream on Me. The higher levels she suggested is the ONLY thing that has helped me in the last three years. Read the articles for yourself, do your own research and don't just come on here accusing someone of something who has probably helped more women then you ever will. But have fun behind your computer complaining. Get a life.
Dec 29, 2016
 Re: Dosage Information
by: Kylie

Hi Danielle,
No I didn't receive a response from Wray yet but I've continued to search for answers myself as like most of the people on this website I am suffering and want the best for my health and I'm confused about the best route to take (BHRT or get the Mirena implant as suggested by my Dr.)Anyhoo, from what I've come up with, it seems to me the reason why Wray is advocating such high dosages is because of the bioavailability of progesterone is low. Higher dosages are needed because the body doesn't absorb it well. This is why progesterone was synthesized into progestin as dosage can be delivered in smaller dosages and is supposedly better tolerated than the larger doses of bio identical progesterone needed to obtain the same results. But from what I've read, high dosages of progesterone can cause issues with the body also so I'm back to square one as to what is the safest option.

And btw, ANONYMOUS, I'm a student registered nurse and the mother of 3 daughters. Right now my eldest daughter is having issues with her menstrual cycles and has been asking me for advice on what she should do. I just want to be able to give her and anyone who may ask me in the future some sound advice. Plus since I haven't been able to 'have a life' due to severe PMS for the last 12 months I want sound advice for myself. Sorry if I offended you but the only way to get answers is to ask questions and it's ok to have a critical mind and not believe everything that's presented to you. In fact this website encourages it's readers to do so. Just in case you missed it, here is the disclaimer (it's located at the bottom of the page)

"Disclaimer:

"Although this web site is not intended to be prescriptive, it is intended, and hoped, that it will induce in you a sufficient level of scepticism about some health care practices to impel you to seek out medical advice that is not captive to purely commercial interests, or blinded by academic and institutional hubris. You are encouraged to refer any health problem to a health care practitioner and, in reference to any information contained in this web site, preferably one with specific knowledge of progesterone therapy."

I'm sure that advice goes both ways otherwise my post wouldn't have been published in the first place.
Dec 29, 2016
 Re: Dosage Information
by: Kylie

Hi Danielle,
No I didn't receive a response from Wray yet but I've continued to search for answers myself as like most of the people on this website I am suffering and want the best for my health and I'm confused about the best route to take (BHRT or get the Mirena implant as suggested by my Dr.)

Anyhoo, from what I've come up with, it seems to me the reason why Wray is advocating such high dosages is because of the bioavailability of progesterone is low. Higher dosages are needed because the body doesn't absorb it well. This is why progesterone was synthesized into progestin as dosage can be delivered in smaller dosages and is supposedly better tolerated than the larger doses of bio identical progesterone needed to obtain the same results. But from what I've read, high dosages of progesterone can cause issues with the body also so I'm back to square one as to what is the safest option.
Dec 29, 2016
 For Anonymous
by: Kylie

And btw, ANONYMOUS, I'm a student registered nurse and the mother of 3 daughters. Right now my eldest daughter is having issues with her menstrual cycles and has been asking me for advice on what she should do. I just want to be able to give her and anyone who may ask me in the future some sound advice. Plus since I haven't been able to 'have a life' due to severe PMS for the last 12 months I want sound advice for myself. Sorry if I offended you but the only way to get answers is to ask questions and it's ok to have a critical mind and not believe everything that's presented to you. In fact this website encourages it's readers to do so. Just in case you missed it, here is the disclaimer (it's located at the bottom of the page)

"Disclaimer:

"Although this web site is not intended to be prescriptive, it is intended, and hoped, that it will induce in you a sufficient level of scepticism about some health care practices to impel you to seek out medical advice that is not captive to purely commercial interests, or blinded by academic and institutional hubris. You are encouraged to refer any health problem to a health care practitioner and, in reference to any information contained in this web site, preferably one with specific knowledge of progesterone therapy."

I'm sure that advice goes both ways otherwise my post wouldn't have been published in the first place.
Dec 29, 2016
 High Dosage Questions
by: Kylie

What I would like to hear is feedback from the women who are taking the higher dosages as recommended on this site. What dosage do you take, for how long in the month do you take it, what issues were you experiencing that lead you to use transdermal progesterone and for how long have you been taking the high dosages recommended?

I just starting using a progesterone cream and I have become overwhelmed by the amount of conflicting information presented out there in cyber-land. I used it for 14 days of my cycle, 40 mg a day from day 14 up to day 22 and then upped the dose to 80mg until my period came, which was the period from hell, even Ponstan didn't take the pain away.

I'm 43 and have had 4 children and my doctor told me I am pre-menopausal a few years ago. In February this year I had a pelvic exam that revealed my uterus is larger than normal. I suffer from chronic fatigue, severe mood swings, boobs that swell and are really sore, massive cramping, heavy flow sometimes with clots but my periods are pretty much regular. I was referred to the women's health unit at the hospital to have a Mirena IUD fitted, but I'm still waiting for the appointment (I live in Hobart, Tasmania and the health system here is struggling). I've heard so many scary stories about the Mirena so this has started my quest about bio identical progesterone. What I noticed this month of using the product is that I had breakthrough bleeding, which I never get, a really heavy painful period and nausea.

So I'm confused about upping the dose as I don't want to experience this again. The only advice I could find about this was from this site and that was to increase the dosage to counteract the effects from the oestrogen receptors being excited due to the re-introduction of progesterone. So if you have a helpful comment about your experiences on using higher dosage it would very much be appreciated.
Dec 29, 2016
 To Anonymous (again)
by: Kylie (again)

I just wanted to add that you don't know a thing about me but you made the accusations against me that were uncalled for. I spent 20 years of my life dedicated to the service of women in the form of a Beauty Therapist. I didn't just help them to look good, I listened to their problems and concerns and cared about them. I would still be working in this role if I hadn't become struck down by an auto-immune illness caused by using a product in my workplace that was sold to me as being completely 'natural' with no harmful effects and no precautions needed to be adhered to. It totally destroyed my life. One minute I'm running a successful business, caring for my four children and pretty much enjoying life. After 2 years of exposure I was bed ridden, childless, bald with respiratory problems and nasty lesions all over my body, no business or income, no career, had to sell my home and I couldn't get medical treatment as the product was listed as 'non-toxic.' The product now is listed as 'hazardous' and there are now safety protocols in place in salons for operators of the service but it's all too late for me.

This is why I am sceptical over anything that's suggested as natural. It took me several years to become well after years of pain and suffering. Now I'm experiencing health issues again and I don't want to put my health in jeopardy by blinding trusting information presented to me. I've read hundreds of pages concerning progesterone cream and it's all conflicting and confusing. But this site is very comprehensive but at the same time my point was valid as to why one page went into great detail as to how blood testing for progesterone levels is inadequate whereas another cited a study result from blood as the reason why more cream should be used. It wasn't an adequate reason for me. Maybe Wray needs to elaborate more on the reasoning more along the lines of bioavailability rather than the study she is currently using as an example as it conflicts what she is saying elsewhere on the site. No need for you to get upset with my line of questioning as I didn't create the inconsistency on the site, Wray did and I only just pointed it out because as a consumer I want the truth and I have every right to question considering what I experienced in the last 5 years of my life.
Dec 31, 2016
 Progesterone Dosages
by: Kylie

Hi Danielle,
No I haven't received a reply from Wray as of yet but I've done some further reading online and I think I found the answer as to why she advocates such high dosages. It has to do with progesterone's bioavailability. Higher dosages need to be used in order to for it to do any good. This is the reason progesterone was synthesised into progestin in the first place as higher dosages of progesterone can cause tolerance issues in some people.
Jan 01, 2017
 Curious
by: Anonymous

Any answer yet?
Jan 18, 2017
 Progesterone Dosages
by: Laura

I doubt you will ever have to worry about progesterone being listed as "hazardous." Without it, we would not be on this earth so it's probably the most "natural" substance in existence. I really don't think you need to be skeptical about progesterone. Here is what I did...I researched everything (it took many years) and I got myself well (I made many mistakes). Only you can figure it out. Hopefully what you find on the internet will help you in some way but nothing on the internet is perfect so take it all in and map out a protocol for yourself.

I also sought out a doctor in my area that could (and would) guide me along the way. I never worried about blood tests or saliva tests for hormones. I went by how I felt. The only thing my doctor kept check on as far as blood tests were my vitamin/mineral levels which many doctors do not test for. I was extremely deficient in Vit. D, magnesium, iron, selenium and zinc. Because of my experience, I suggest a vitamin/mineral panel be done first and correct any deficiencies before starting progesterone. I also tried an extremely small dose of bio identical estrogen at one point. Don't do it, it made things much worse for me and I had to start all over. I used an over the counter progesterone (not the one on this site) but I also used many compounded versions at different times and different strengths. I used the search engine on this site to search specific issues that came up and used any suggestions I thought might help me. I got encouragement along the way from just reading peoples' journeys. I used my worse symptom as a guideline for dosing. At the time I started progesterone, it was heavy bleeding and clotting (which is probably why my vitamins/minerals were a mess) and I used enough of it everyday without a break (I'm done having children so don't have to worry about cycling) until the bleeding got better and noticed that other symptoms were getting better too. My extreme watery eyes that watered everyday of my life since I was 29 finally stopped watering on progesterone at age 54. My makeup actually stays on my eyes all day now. I never went above 400mg/day of progesterone and am now on 100mg/day and don't think I will ever take any less than 100mg/day and for now my symptoms are very much under control.

Sometimes I feel like I may need a little more because my eyes are starting to water a little or my breasts start to get dense and sore again so I may dose up to 120 or 150 and see what that does. This is what works for me and wanted to share it. It's not perfect science because the hormones fluctuate so much. I have a 14 yo girl that is having slight issues with her period but for now I am just making sure she gets a good multivitamin (w/iron) and extra Vit. D everyday. Her doctor has suggested the pill to regulate her period but no thanks! If it gets worse we can regulate her period with natural progesterone but I'll figure that out only when I need to. Good luck to you and your daughters.

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