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DHEA PROGESTERONE ESTRIOL TESTOSTERONE ? Too Much

by Marianna
(Boston MA)

I had labs done over 6 months ago. I am 53. My blood levels of Estrogens, Progesterone DHEA and Testosterone were way below normal for a women of 53. I am 10 years Menopause. My skin had become so dry and wrinkled in a year. Had severe vaginal atrophy. Medical Drs could not offer me anything but prescription patch which I refused.
I started taking DHEA 10 mg and 20 mg Progesterone Cream once a day. I started putting on weight. 8 lbs in two months... Which one is causing the Weight gain? Do I really need DHEA pill?

Also, neither one of them helped with the atrophy so I started using 1 mg of Estriol Oil Vaginally and what a HUGE
difference. and a Natural low dose of Testosterone. just within the last few weeks.

I will be having Saliva Tests in a few weeks. I think
the DHEA and Progesterone are causing the problem. Should I increase the Progesterone and drop the DHEA?


Thanks

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Dec 20, 2011
 DHEA PROGESTERONE ESTRIOL TESTOSTERONE ? Too Much
by: Wray

Hi Marianna The amount of progesterone you're using is causing the problem. If you note on the other pages on the site, too many women are told to use 20mg/day, this stimulates oestrogen causing Oestrogen Dominance symptoms to get worse. One is water retention and the other is stimulation of fat cells, both of which cause weight gain, see here. I recommend 100-200mg/day, dependant on symptoms. Please drop the DHEA, it increases testosterone levels, see here, here, here and here. I would caution against the testosterone too, see here, here, here, here, here here, here, here, here and here. Estriol is the safest of oestrogens, but you could try using the cream in your vagina, it's helped women with dryness. Please increase the amount of progesterone you're using, and use it on your face too, it's excellent for the skin, see here. Continued below.
Dec 20, 2011
 DHEA PROGESTERONE ESTRIOL TESTOSTERONE ? Too Much
by: Wray

Hi Marianna Whereas oestrogen does nothing for it, see here and here. We do have more info on our Menopause page. Please increase the good fats and oils too, these help the skin; butter, olive oil and MCT oil. This last oil is wonderful for the skin, it's INCI name is caprylic/capric triglycerides. Take care Wray
Dec 21, 2011
 thanks
by: Marianna

thanks for the info. The Progesterone Cream I use is 20 mg per 1/4 teaspoon. I will use a full teaspoon AM and PM.

Will it take a long time before I notice the results? Also, will this much Progesterone cream make my Estrogen & Testosterone levels bottom out again or bring it back to healthy levels?
Dec 22, 2011
 thanks
by: Wray

Hi Marianna Please let me know how you get on with the higher amount of progesterone. It will keep your oestrogen and testosterone suppressed, but this is what you want. Doctors only test oestradiol, this is the major pre-menopausal oestrogen, levels should be low in menopause, the range is 0 - 30 pg/m, see here. But our fat cells continue making oestrone when in menopause, this is never tested for, the level is around 30 pg/ml, see here. Menopausal women usually suffer from excess free testosterone, see here. But free tesotosterone is not checked either, only the total testosterone is taken, which is meaningless. Because if bound to sex hormone binding globulin, it does not affect us. I can't tell how long it will take, some find immediate relief, but others find it can take a year. It really depends on symptoms. Take care Wray
Dec 29, 2011
 DHEA PROGESTERONE ESTRIOL TESTOSTERONE ? Too much
by: Marianna

Hi there,

Okay, from my last writing. Took your advice. I was using 1/4 teaspoon (20mg) Progesterone daily and increased it to 1 teaspoon (80mg) two times a day. WHAT a difference! Weight gain is coming right off.

I dropped the DHEA tablet and Testosterone cream.

I use 1 mg of Estriol cream on my face. or 1mg of Estriol Oil vaginally. every other day.

Everything seems to be just perfect. Libido back. Sleeping well. Vaginal dryness gone. Fatigue gone in the afternoons. Due to have Saliva tests within the next week.

Thanks Wray.
Jan 03, 2012
 DHEA PROGESTERONE ESTRIOL TESTOSTERONE ? Too much
by: Wray

Hi Marianna I'm so delighted it worked! Many thanks for letting me know. Take care Wray
Sep 30, 2012
 Combined cream
by: Anonymous

Hi i m using progesterone cream , my blood level was 0.5nmol of progesterone, oestradiol 227pmol ,testost (serum) 0.5, should I be using progest and oestrogen cream combined or progest only, my skin is wrinkly and hair thinning, thnx
Oct 02, 2012
 Combined cream
by: Wray

Hi there Your P:E2 ratio is 2.2:1, the lowest I've ever seen. We've found from Saliva Tests we run that the ratio should be 600:1 and over to feel well. Although your oestradiol is within normal range, albeit at the low end, your progesterone is very low. We do have a page on Hormone Testing you could look through. Looking at your ratio I don't believe you should be using any oestrogen at all. Only progesterone, and at least 100-200mg/day, possibly more. I don't know how old you are, but we do have a few pages you could look through, How to use progesterone cream, Peri-menopause and Menopause. Please also take a look at our page on Oestrogen Dominance too. Progesterone is excellent for the skin, see here. Whereas oestrogen does nothing for it, see here and here. We do have a page on Hair Loss which gives a list of nutrients which all help with growth. Take care Wray
Oct 23, 2012
 Soya
by: Anonymous

Hi u advised me not to use ostrogen as my oestradiol level was 227pmol and progest was 0.5 , I am using bio identical progesterone twice a day and weight seems better but feel very tired in pm , also my skin is looking so dull and wrinkles . I used to take a lot of soya milk and this helped my skin and hair but will it increase my oestradiol/ oestrogen levels , thnx
Oct 25, 2012
 Soya
by: Wray

Hi there Please can you tell me how much progesterone you're using. I do recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are bad. I did give you that paper on how progesterone helps the skin, but it does take time, particularly after using oestrogen too, as that does not help the skin, see here and here. It could be you're not taking in enough good fats and oils like butter, olive oil and coconut oil. Soya milk is full of phytoestrogens, all these, no matter what form they come in, have an oestrogenic affect. In time they cause the same problems our own oestrogen can cause if too high. High soy intake can cause infertility, memory loss, and in men, gynecomastia, see here, here, here, here and here. The tiredness in the pm could be due to a lack of salt. Particularly if you're stressed, as the adrenals become stressed and they need sodium, which is found in salt, to function normally. Or it could be you just need to give it time, as progesterone does help tiredness. Take care Wray
Oct 20, 2014
 progesterone/DHEA/testosterone combination
by: ladyc

Hi There,
I went to a DR to find out why my libido is nonexistence and I am tired all the time. After running some tests I was given a prescription for a compounding Pharmacy. The prescription is for a cream…progesterone 30 / DHEA 7.5 / testosterone 30. I have been using the cream for 1 month now and there are no changes in my libido and I am still tired all the time. I have gained 8lbs within the month. I am 42yrs old and had a partial hysterectomy 4yrs ago. Please let me know if there is any value to this combination especially since I am not seeing any results and I am gaining weight. Thank you.
Oct 29, 2014
 same boat as ladyc
by: Anonymous

I'm having the same problems as ladyc. Interested in hearing your response.
Oct 29, 2014
 confused as to what to do
by: feeling crazy

My proegesterone is .30, oestradiol 130.4, and free testosterone .7. Vitamin D good.

My doctor put me on topical testosterone cream 5mg/day and DHEA 25 mg/day after diagnosing me with adrenal fatigue. while the cream helped my labido, I now suffer with cystic acne, anxiety, mild depression. What else should I be doing? I still have extremely heavy periods starting on day 24. I can feel something is out of whack.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
Sep 19, 2016
 Wray, drop the progesterone
by: Carol

Wray, why are you taking progesterone without estrogen?

You are squelching what little estrogen your body is creating, so your body might be collecting fat to store and generate estrogen.

DHEA is a wild card. It can stay convert to estrogen or testosterone.

The estriol cream is good, and the testosterone could help you rebuild cells. You might not need it in the future.

You could continue progesterone, but just the over the counter stuff and just a dab.
Sep 20, 2016
 Wray, drop the progesterone
by: Alyce

Why on earth would anyone want to drop progesterone?? We are all battling with too much oestrogen as it is. We are given hormone replacement and birth control - drugs, then what about all the rubbish that we eat, drink, breathe and use each day?

Testosterone could rebuild cells ….. huh?? How bizarre! If anything it made me so sick! I will never use oestrogen or testosterone again. Progesterone saved me, and not just a dab either! Get real!
Mar 22, 2017
 estriol cream
by: Anonymous

Feel so tired and weak.
Mar 24, 2017
 Estriol Cream
by: Joy

That's probably because you are using HRT, no women should use or take it. Could I have more information though as you have given me very little to work on. Please read this thread, you will find some excellent advise.

Take care.
Apr 11, 2017
 More Estroil? More Progesterone? Which way do I go?
by: Anonymous

Hi All...

Been going through hell the last 6 months.... long story short Adrenal Stress 1st stage..low sex hormones... so was prescribed 2.5 mg Bi-est and 5mg of testosterone..... sent me sky high with terrible symptoms...

Then detox to bring the levels down...

Now trying to find the right balance with Estriol and Progesterone..

Was on Progesterone (USP) 20 mg only... had bad depression, tics etc...the longer I was on the worse I got.

Started Estriol....

Now on Estroil 0.75 mg and Progesterone 20 mg per day... 5 days on 2 days off..

Still struggling with depression, hot flushes, tics...

Anyone any idea what I need to do to sort this

Thanks

Y x
Jun 04, 2017
 Progesterone, Estriol, fatigue and depression
by: Anni

I so relate to so many of you, started menopause a year ago, I struggled for 7 yrs before that with crushing fatigue, depression, lack of motivation, lack of libido etc. I read everything I could find, started progesterone, organic excellence from sprouts, and it was at first a godsend, it was amazing, within 6 months things started going bad, severe depression, fatigue.

I listened as far as upping doses of progesterone, and it got to the point where I wanted to kill myself, never been that way in my entire life. I kept at it because I believed what they said, omg my life was a mess!!

Finally stopped progesterone completely after reading how it builds up in your tissues and how too much causes every symptom I was having, oh not to mention gaining 30 lbs in a year.

Gradually the fog lifted, Now, 5 months after stopping progesterone my life is back. I've tried to take it here and there and I always end up with hot flashes fatigue and severe depression and irritability the very next day. Ladies, listen to your bodies, if something you're taking makes you feel worse, stop taking it!! Don't listen to anyone but yourself.

My blood work and saliva tests all came back showing very low progesterone and estrogen, yet the progesterone made me so sick regardless of the massive doses or small doses I took. It took me months to get off this rollercoaster with progesterone.

I'm now trying to use a small amount of bio estriol vaginally for dryness and libido and that's it. Stop listening to anyone except your own body, I had 1 yr of misery because of massive progesterone doses, just because something works for others doesn't mean it will for you.

For each study that's published, another is published to show the opposite, no one really knows exactly how hormones work, that's a fact. Don't let anyone tell u any different, especially someone who sells progesterone cream.
Jun 05, 2017
 Listen to your body
by: Justine

Agreed Anni, Wray always always advocated, "Listen to your own body", no one knows whats best for you other than you.

Sadly too many don't know how to listen to their bodies anymore because the body is so confused with all the incoming effects (mental, emotional and chemical) of the environments we live in and engage with.

It seems we all need help and guidance and support, so sharing our stories for the good of all seems a good place to start.
Jun 05, 2017
 Progesterone, Estriol, fatigue and depression
by: Joy

Hi Anni

I am so sorry that you have experience a torrid time with progesterone therapy. As Justine correctly said, we must all listen to our bodies. Which is exactly what I did. I listened when estrogen was making me feel so ill, I also listen when progesterone made me feel well again. Because I used progesterone correctly, it worked for me. What works for one may not necessarily work for another. There are many instances when progesterone alone can't 'cure all', it needs help as in nutrition and a good diet to help it work optimally. If progesterone is not used correctly it will not work. You do not mention what progesterone cream you used, or how much you used? There are many progesterone creams on the market today and not all have the correct progesterone concentration needed.

Time and time again ladies write in with the same complaint saying that progesterone made them feel worse, they have given virtually the same adverse symptoms that you are now describing. These symptoms are actually Estrogen Dominance symptoms, made worse because not enough progesterone was being used. When this happens it aggravates estrogen receptors making things worse. When this happens, listen to your body and increase the amount of progesterone used which has been mentioned time and again on the website. One major reason for poor results when using progesterone is low vitamin D3 levels, if levels are low it will reduce the benefits of progesterone. This is overlooked by many.

There are many misconceptions regarding progesterone and one of them is that it builds up in fatty tissue. One thing which seems to be overlooked by all, is that progesterone is broken down into metabolites. It doesn't remain as progesterone locked up in fatty tissue. It is important in it's own right, but it's metabolites are just as important. Now estrogen does cause weight gain, it is a mitogen causing fat cells to proliferate. Please read the page on Progesterone Misconceptions.

The fog would have lifted because progesterone was not stimulating estrogen, this would not have happened if enough progesterone was being used for your personal symptoms. Progesterone also can't be used 'here and there', it is a life long commitment and it needs to be used all the time, especially in Peri-Menopause and Menopause. Now you say that you 'took' progesterone, this now implies to me that it was oral progesterone. All oral progesterone is not the best delivery method as 96% gets destroyed by the gut and liver. If you actually used a cream I suspect that you were not using enough.

When in Peri-Menopause the symptoms that you described are classic and very common. It is a time when progesterone cream needs to be used every day with no breaks at all as P levels start to drop at around 35. Do you perhaps have your tests for progesterone and estradiol (E2). It's not so much the result of each individual test that is important, but the ratio between the two hormones that is vital. Please feel free to post your results so that I can work out the ratio for you, or you can compare them yourself, see the Hormone Testing page.

Scientists, professors, doctors and labs rely on study papers, it is vital to their work thereby helping us all.

I wish you well and if you feel up to it, please read these pages and the references as they are important.

How to use Progesterone Cream

Estrogen Dominance

Peri-Menopause

Menopause

Vitamin D3

Magnesium

Delivery Methods

Progesterone Misconceptions

Anxiety

Hormone Testing

Jun 06, 2017
 Dear Joy
by: Anni

Dear Joy...I wanted to clear up some things in regards to my progesterone use.

It was a compounded progesterone cream from a well-known hormone doctor here in Las Vegas. I was on it for well over a year so no, it was not a pill and also I followed the guidelines for massive doses, meaning eventually getting up to 200 mg per day.

Again this went on for about a year, I spent that year gaining massive amounts of weight, having crashing fatigue, extreme irritability and severe depression, I felt my life was falling apart. I had several tests, both blood and saliva, both showed low estrogen and low progesterone. These tests were taken before I started my progesterone cream. Tests taken after and during progesterone showed off-the-charts progesterone and low estrogen so no, it was not estrogen dominance in any shape or form. Like I said in my previous text, we women need to listen to our bodies more than doctors, just because something works for one does not mean it will work for you.

My life fell apart during that year and when I stopped I literally felt better day by day and am now feeling fantastic. My blood work is back to showing low progesterone and low estrogen, but apparently the two hormones must be in balance since I feel so good, it's not a matter of how much progesterone we have but if these two hormones are balanced. Apparently my body created its own balance little by little after I stopped they're progesterone disaster. I hear some people saying listen to your own bodies but take a ton of progesterone cream and that's not listening to your own body. Progesterone made me feel fantastic for about 3 months and with the directions I kept upping my dosage until I was on 200 a day, and every single day of those High dosages is an utter disaster.

All I'm saying is we should not listen to any doctors, listen to your body. If something you're taking makes you feel bad and you do as the doctor says and you feel progressively worse, continuously, then stop, obviously something is wrong. I'm so glad I stopped, I hate to imagine my life the way it was only 5 months ago and I'm finally losing weight and actually the symptoms I had were of too much progesterone, not estrogen.

There are subtle differences, these high doses may work for some, but for a lot of us they don't.
Jun 06, 2017
 Correction
by: Anni

I forgot to mention that I do take vitamin D3 every single day and also magnesium. I also take a very good, completely natural, not synthetic multi-vitamin from Garden of Life. I work out everyday, at least I'm back to it now, whereas when all this took place I barely had energy to walk my dog.
Jun 07, 2017
 Dear Joy
by: Joy

Hi Anni

Well I am relieved that it was not in pill form. Sadly many compounded creams come mixed with parabens, chemicals, estrogen and or testosterone. Not what any woman needs. They often do not have the correct amount of progesterone concentration. Many have switched and found far better results. 200mg is not massive in the grand scheme of things. Up to 2400mg per day was prescribed by the late Kittie Dalton for those suffering from severe PND and psychotic symptoms. 1400mg is given to those who suffer from TBI and 800mg for PMS. Now if that compounded cream did not have the correct progesterone, less than what is required, you would have experienced adverse symptoms. Weight gain is most certainly one of those adverse symptoms sadly, all because not enough was being used initially.

As you know our hormones change drastically during the month as well as in menopause. Stress destroys progesterone too. It is not so much the result from each individual test, but rather the ratio between P and E2 that is vital as mentioned.

It's sad really because had you been given the correct advice on how to use progesterone I sincerely believe that you would have achieved better results. I agree with you about doctors, most are pretty uninformed when it comes to progesterone therapy.

Again I agree with you, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another, and this is where your original comment comes into play, "Listen to your body", it will tell you what is needed.

I am pleased that you are taking Vit D3 and Magnesium, they are both vital.

Take care.
Jul 26, 2017
 So Confused
by: Kelly

I found this page last night. I am 55, post-menopausal for 4 years.

At first my only struggle was with hot flashes. Over the past 3 years I have also been struggling with fatigue, low energy, low motivation, depression, and very low libido. (Since late 20's I have had low energy and low grade depression. From age 28 - 46 I also had 4 children and 7 miscarriages. Took anti-depressants a few times, but am wondering if this was hormonal imbalance??).

Anyhow - I am tired of feeling this way, so have been looking into BHRT. There are quite a few BHRT docs in my area. Some do creams, some do pellets, but most of them are very expensive. I don't mind paying if it works, but I haven't been able to take the plunge yet - they all have a bit different philosophy and prices, so haven't been able to make a decision.

I have not had any hormone tests done. I am most interested in the DUTCH test as it seems to give the most information on hormones, even adrenals. Not all practioners use it, but you can order it without a doc. Wondering if I should order that, wait for results, and then try progesterone, since it seems to be the simplest thing to try instead of plunging into full BHRT with the pellets.

Thoughts??
Jul 27, 2017
 Low libido and fatigue
by: Anni

Here is what is working so well for its incredible as far as libido and also vaginal dryness...

I had asked my doctor about it and she said I could insert about a pea size of my all natural estriol cream into my vagina, nightly for 7 nights and then 2 to 3 times per week after that to maintain. I use estriol cream from Life Flo which I buy at sprouts, put it in a little syringe (no needle of course!!), and insert it vaginally, press the plunger and that's that.

She said if u feel a little burning the first few times for a minute or so after injection it's likely because your tissues are dry and irritated, that should go away after a few uses. Mine did burn slightly but it only lasted a minute and it was gone. After 3 nights of doing this the burning was gone. I've been doing this for a month now, 2 to 3 times a week now, just a pea sized portion of cream, and let me tell you, it works!! My libido is back with a vengeance and the severe pain and discomfort completely gone.

My girlfriend was having the same problem as me and she started 2 weeks ago. She hadn't been able to be with her spouse for years due to pain and dryness, and frankly she didn't have any interest. After 3 days of this she told me she was having all kinds of urges she hadn't had for years and after a week on the cream the pain is gone.

I hope this works for you but ask your doctor first for sure, I'm just a regular woman telling u what worked for me. I've also started using small amounts of testosterone cream for women on my face in the mornings, (pea sized), and it gives me energy, just can't take too much or it can make you irritable, I use Testro care for women also from life flo, I ordered it online..no I'm not getting paid from life flo, lol..they just happened to have these two.

Good luck..this whole menopause thing is so confusing ...
Jul 28, 2017
 So confused
by: Joy

Hi Kelly

How tragic that you had to endure 7 miscarriages, I am sorry to hear this. You are correct, it is a hormonal issues. All your adverse symptoms indicate Estrogen Dominance, such a pity that you have had to deal with these dreadful symptoms for so long. And of course, doctors just love prescribing anti-depressants, failing to test hormone levels.

I can quite understand you feeling tired of it all, I would be too. Please, please, please think very carefully about going on the pellets, the side effects are horrendous and would most probably make you feel even worse than you are now. I will give you a page to read up on it and what women are saying about it. There are well over 100 estrogen mimics in our environment as it is, why would any women want to take more and why would doctors want to prescribe it? Pellets also contain testosterone which can cause cardiovascular disease and insulin resistance, the side effects are simply not worth it. Please consider using a natural, organic Progesterone only cream such as Natpro.

Have you been tested for insulin resistance? I ask because you have been battling with fatigue from an early again and apart from it being an estrogen dominant symptom, could also mean IR.

Stress also messes everything up. It destroys progesterone and valuable nutrients as well. Stress can cause miscarriages as well as low progesterone levels. I suspect that is why you had them.

If you are going to have tests done, please ask them to test your VITAMIN D3 test as well, it is also a hormone, but more importantly, a deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone. It is connected to every single functioning cell in our body's including depression. This makes it vital. Important co-factors are needed as well as in Magnesium and Vitamin K2 with NO soy, soy is terribly estrogenic and not what any women needs.

Please read these pages and the references.

How to use Progesterone Cream

Estrogen Dominance

Peri-Menopause

Menopause

Vitamin D3

Magnesium

Insulin Resistance

Pellet Nightmare

Testosterone

Environmental Toxins

Stress

I wish you well.
Aug 09, 2017
 Estrodiol or Estrone dominance
by: Anonymous

Hi there.

Just trying to straighten out my hormones. Became post-menopausal at 25. Took many hormones, finally got into transdermal up until 5 years ago. Stayed on Pro-Gest up until last year when i began adaptogens. What a mess. Did saliva test at the time I was going to stop progest. Saliva levels were P 18,000, Estrodiol 1.5, T 35, DHEA 1.5. Cortisol AM was low.

Went through 10 years of heavy stress up to this point. Water retention for years in legs, but now add fat deposit on tummy, tired and hair loss. Adaptogens on and off and now lots of hair loss, gained 10 lbs, more hair loss, but less tired.

Saliva tests now. Progest 75, E 5.3 T 46 DHEA 1.3, Cortisol AM Low. 3 lbs lighter, still lots of hair loss and wide waist, water retention. Serum ATCH AM was 1 and am cortisol below normal.

What should I do? Started progest again, but not sleeping, really grumpy today lol. On it for 3 wks now just in pm. Too much cause extreme water.

Help. Im 51 yrs old.
Aug 10, 2017
 Estrodiol or Estrone dominance
by: Joy

Gosh you have been battling for a long, long time. Most of your adverse symptoms clearly indicate Estrogen Dominance. Water retention is caused by excess estrogen. I am all in favour of herbs if they work, in this instance I do not believe that Adaptogens helped much.

Your first set of progesterone:estrogen (E2) tests show that your ratio was 12:1. You second tests showed a slight improvement of 14:1. These are terribly low, it should be around 600:1 before one feels an improvement. You can check the remainder of your test results on the Hormone Testing page.

Another reason why your ratio did not improve is because you were not using enough progesterone.

ProGest only contains 960mg of progesterone concentration, while Natpro Progesterone Cream contains 2,000mg. Please consider changing to Natpro as you will need to use twice or three times more cream that you are/were using.

Belly fat is cause by excess estrogen which you have and high testosterone levels, have you been tested? No woman needs to take extra estrogen as there are well over 100 estrogen mimics in our Environment as it is, why would any woman want to take more and why would doctors prescribe it?

Progesterone, if used correctly will help your cortisol levels as it is a calming hormone. Stress destroys not only progesterone levels, but also Vitamin D3 levels as well as many other vital nutrients. More needs to be taken during stressful times. Do you know what your vitamin D3 level is, a deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone and is connected to every single functioning cell in our body's making it vital. Co-factors are needed especially Magnesium Glycinate, it will help with sleep as well and is also very calming. Vitamin K2 with NO soy is also needed.

Please read these pages and the references:

How to use Progesterone Cream

Estrogen Dominance

Menopause

Magnesium

Vitamin D3

Hormone Testing

Stress
Aug 10, 2017
 Estridiol or Estrone domiance
by: Rose

Hi Joy.

Yes the adaptogens were DHEA related and though a lot more hair started to fall, they made me feel so calm and wonderful lol. Imagine? But when i stopped them due to the hair loss I gained even more water. I was only 120lbs when i started this but am usually around 115 lbs.

I played around with MACA for energy the year before and that started the gut. I realized MACA is only good for balancing estrogen when you actually make enough or are taking some sort of it.

Anyway I read a lot as I've found docs are no help and have been reading since the ovarian failure to save myself. Never was able to have children. Sad.

My Vit D was low 6 yrs ago. I am taking 1000mg a day now, along with 250 Mag, Vit C - 500 x2, B6, Vit E, Selenium, Krill oil, Digestive enzymes, probiotic. I did added B5 - 500 for about 5 months for adrenals because I know I was utterly exhausted. Now I take it random, along with B12. The B12 sometimes I think creates more water retension.

Yes I have suffered for a long time. My libido is gone and I truly believe when in my condition your pheromones are also gone. Feel no attraction whatsoever. I've always called myself a unick as thats how I've felt. Not to offend anyone, just my interpretation.

How is second test a higher ratio at P75-E 5.3? Wouldn't the first test be higher at P 18,000-E 1.5?

And how can my DHEA be so low, yet Testosterone and estrogen high? Maybe I need a good functional medicine doctor? Cannot remember the last time my estrogen was this high and I'm not even taking it in any form.

I used Pro-gest for 12 yrs and I guess it wasn't strong enough eh lol. I did order Korkuro (spelling?). It seems stronger but I don't sleep well on it. I felt more water with it so I feel there is estrogenic ingredients in it. Can I buy Natpro in Canada? Or will it ship to Ontario? I will read up on it?
Aug 10, 2017
 Estrodiol or Estrone domiance
by: Rose

The other question I have is about Estriol. I've read a lot about it lately and asked a friend to pick me up the cream from the US this weekend. Will it help lower my estrodial?

We all know that taking hormones lowers own bodies natural production. So will it lower this estrodial increase I'm experiencing?

I've also read about Estrone production, post-menopause which is the FAT estrogen in tissue that us women create more of when ovaries cease. Will Estriol help decrease that?

And should I do 3 weeks on pro and 1 week off? Maybe that will help to drop estrogen?

See now I took a big dose of progesterone cream last night and my stomach is huge this morning. Along with another 1.5 lbs weight gain upon waking.

Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.
Aug 11, 2017
 Estradiol or Estrone domiance
by: Joy

Hi Rose

You are not taking enough vitamin D3, nothing less than 5,000iu's per day is needed, more if extremely deficient. All this has been explained in my vitamin D3 page given to you. It is vital that you get your level up. Please follow instructions on Magnesium as well.

Please read the Low Libido pages, you could be deficient in tyrosine as well. Progesterone levels fluctuate during the month, your second test may have been taken at a time when your P level was slightly higher. Or stress reduced levels. It is not so much the result of each individual hormone that is important but rather the ratio between progesterone and estrogen (E2) that is vital.

Please consider switching to Natpro as it was formulated exactly to what our body needs. We ship to most countries in the world and we definitely ship to Canada.

To answer your question about estrogen, yes, the correct use of progesterone will help to balance your hormones and make progesterone the dominant hormone which is what is needed. No woman needs to take extra estrogen there are well over 100 estrogen mimics in our environment as it is, why take more? Excess estrogen is a mitogen, causing fat cells to proliferate, again, not what any woman needs.

At 51 you should be using progesterone every day with NO breaks. If progesterone is not used correctly it will not work. Your body would have reacted to the big does, but was it Natpro? You really need to give your body a chance to adjust. Progesterone therapy is not an overnight fix, it takes time and patience. Most odd that you gained 1.5lbs overnight.

Take care.
Aug 11, 2017
 Estradiol or Estrone domiance
by: Joy

Hi Rose

Apologies, I forgot to give you the Low Libido page to read. https://www.progesteronetherapy.com/low-libido.html
Aug 11, 2017
 Estrodiol or Estriol
by: Rose

Hi Joy. Thanks for responding.

I will up my D3 for sure, and going to check my Mag to see which one it is. I do eat raw pumpkin, sunflower seeds and almonds, walnuts and cashews every day with greek yogurt. Also take zinc and selenium oposite days. Plus lots of water and fresh lemon water every night. Eat my greens, lots of olive oils, avacodo oil, button mushrooms which are very good for adrenals, and eggs and protein meats. I also added celtic salt into my diet as i realized I don't get any salt in my day at all, other then whats in a veggie naturally.

I've had very low blood pressure for yrs. like 78/55. Its seems better lately but not average/normal and i have low heart rate as well. My doc said dont worry its nothing. Along with my water retention he said some women just have big legs. Imagine?? Omg lol.

Thanks again. I will read up on your Natpro and the other info you offered to me.
Aug 13, 2017
 Estrodiol or estriol
by: Alyce

Hello Rose

I am just reading what your doc said to you. He told you to not worry about about your water retention as some women have big legs! You have got to be kidding? I would definitely be looking for a new doc. I am horrified.

I wish you well.
Aug 15, 2017
 Estrodiol or Estriol
by: Rose

Hi Alyce.

Lol yup thats my doctor. A few years ago he says, ok we can't leave the water for too long but with your low blood pressure we have to watch and its not good for your veins. Then he said no again, as for the big leg theory. I've told him I have a horse shoe kidney, ovarian failure for 20 yrs, and low pressure so something is not right. He said I'm fine as my pressure is like a newborn or an athlete lol.

I've just started to fix myself again and looking for a new doc. I've had to help myself over the years and here i go again. Hard to find a good gp whose willing to go that extra mile to make you well.
Aug 16, 2017
 Estrodiol or Estrial
by: Rose

Hi just wondering.

When my progesterone was 18,000 to 1 estrogen I still had water retention. Is it possible it was cortisol steal? My am cortisol is low and ACTH.

Possible I have other issues not functioning anymore.

Also read your site on libido and my prolactin is below normal.
Aug 17, 2017
 Estradiol or Estrial
by: Joy

Hi Rose

As explained when your progesterone was 18,000 your progesterone:estrogen (E2) ratio was 12:1. You need to get your progesterone up to around 600:1 as explained on the Hormone Testing page. This would very definitely explain your water retention due to excess estrogen, plus your estrogen receptors being stimulated due to not enough progesterone being used. ProGest is not strong enough as explained.

The adrenals initially produce progesterone, which they then convert into cortisol. If the adrenals are stressed this is compromised, and invariably ovarian progesterone is robbed. Are you addressing your adrenals? Are you actually taking estrogen? If so, this will also have an affect as it will be an uphill battle to make progesterone the dominant hormone which is what is needed. Until this happens, you will battle.
Aug 20, 2017
 Estrodiol or Estrial
by: Rose

Hi Joy.

Wow that is crazy!! The progesterone ratio that is. I went to a Herbalist/ Natural path and did saliva testing. The 18,000 p results I was told were too high even from the testing place and thats when she put me on adaptogens for estrogen balance and told me i was best to stop progest for a bit as I was just putting on weight. What happened in those 60 days I was taking the herb, was total water retention loss! Stomach went down and I felt amazing. I cruised thru that summer last yr but still feel I get tired. I tried the other herbs she wanted me to take which were for dhea. Its when i ordered my second bottle all hell broke loose. I gained more water weight, stomach expanded, heavy hair loss. A month ago I did saliva again an T and E were higher and P was 75. Thats what happened.

With ovarian failure you do not produce progesterone anymore and mostly testosterone, so you get it from adrenals, a little from brain.
I am not taking any herbs anymore, since June. Working on adrenal health and taking the progesterone.

I have been trying your larger dose method and do not like the symptoms of further hair loss almost overnight and more water retension. I totally understand your theory of the higher P, but maybe just maybe some people like myself with smaller frame and lower body fat, 25 yrs ovarian failure do require other hormones to lessen the body from producing its own estrogen. Just for a short time until the progesterone can get ahead. I appreciate your experience and will try the Natpro once I have finished the progest and will let u know my results.

Thanks so much.
Mar 26, 2018
 URL
by: CJ

I got this when I searched:
Sorry,

There's no such page at www.progesteronetherapy.com

Use the above search bar or click on any link in the right margin to explore other features on this site.

Sorry for the bother and thank you for visiting.
Mar 26, 2018
 Estradiol
by: CJ

Went to DR. to determine what I was lacking. Was having vaginal dryness/irritation, no libido, no energy, horrible sleep, and digestive issues. Started taking Juice Plus (red, green, and purple; 27 fruits, veggies, and berries), D3 10000 iu daily, fish oil, and turmeric 1000 mg daily and feel better but not 100%.

Dr. put me on bio-identical PS-Estradiol 75 mg capsules olive oil clear vaginal suppositories and progesterone cream 1 g at night. Blood test showed: testosterone, total LC/MS 35.5ng/dl, T4 free direct 1.31ng/dl, estrogen total 823pg/ml, progesterone .7ng/ml. What are your thoughts?

I had been on 1mg estradiol pill and Fertilica natural progesterone 20mg at night, neither bio-identical. Since quitting the pill and cream, I have developed what I have researched to be a Bartholin cyst. Is that related to all this hormonal mess?
Mar 27, 2018
 URL
by: Moderator

Hello CJ

You do not state which URL gives you this message when you click on it?

Please could you give me the URL link or name of the URL link and on which page it is so that I can fix it and send you the correct one.

Warm regards
Justine
Mar 27, 2018
 Estradiol
by: Joy

Hi CJ

You are suffering from estrogen dominance. You certainly do not need more estrogen, no woman needs to take it. There are well over 100 estrogen mimics in our environment as it is. Your progesterone:estrogen(E2) ratio is 9:1 it should be around 600:1 so you really do need more progesterone and not estrogen. The Hormone Testing page given below will explain in more detail.

The amount of progesterone that you took was not enough, it would merely aggravate your estrogen receptors. Between 100-200mg is needed. It should be used no less than twice a day to keep progesterone levels stable.

Bartholin cysts usually means blocked glands. Cysts on ovaries and breasts as in my case, were caused from excess estrogen. You might want to see your doctor about your cysts if you are concerned.

Please read these pages on the website:

How to use Progesterone Cream

Estrogen Dominance

Hormone Testing
Mar 03, 2022
 Progesterone, Estriol, DHEA???
by: Diane

I went to a natural doctor for help with my thyroid. He also tested female hormones & said progesterone, estrogen, & DHEA are very low. I have been pero-menopausal for several years now.

He gave me his natural progesterone & estrogen capsules. They were great but I could no longer afford to go to him & buy his products. I instead purchased natural creams of progesterone, estriol, & DHEA. I’m wondering if I actually need both estriol & DHEA? And I’m wondering about dosing? I have gained so much weight, which is not at all normal for me.

Can someone please help me?
Mar 04, 2022
 Progesterone, Estriol, DHEA???
by: Joy

Hi Diane

If you read this website as well as this thread you will see that we do not believe any woman needs to take extra estrogen, reasons have already been explained.  Any kind of oral progesterone is not the best delivery method, also discussed on this thread.  Progesterone creams are far better.  DHEA has also been discussed here; it has a dark side.

To answer your question, No you do not need extra estrogen and DHEA.  Make sure your cream is organic with a progesterone concentration of 3.33% such as Natpro as all information on this website is based on a 3.33% cream.  If not, adjust the amount used to equate to Natpro.

Weight gain is more than like because you were not using progesterone correctly.  Or you may have a thyroid problem or you maybe suffering from Insulin Resistance.

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