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Confusion with cycle?

by valerie
(MN)

I am a bit confused when it comes to counting the days of your cycle? If i have read it right this is my understanding of when to start with the cream. Cycle day one is the first day of your period? Does spotting before your full flow count as day one?
Then you count until day 14 and start applying the cream for 14 days? Then your period would start and then it starts all over again.

I am only 28 but am experiencing many estrogen dominant symptoms. I want to give this a try. Besides getting a hormone level test done, how do you know when to stop? When your symptoms are better?

I personally don't plan on buying the cream sold here but getting one at a health food store or iherb.com Any suggestions? This is what iherb has http://www.iherb.com/search?kw=progesterone%20cream%2C%20products

Thanks!

Comments for Confusion with cycle?

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Jan 07, 2012
 Get your money back!!!
by: Linda

Ooops, I think I posted this to the wrong
question so I'm posting it again here.
Hopefully the web person will catch it.

I can't answer your question...I'll leave that to Wray but the N.D. you went to really needs
to be straightened out. And if you bought
all those products from him/her after
you were taken off the progesterone you
should ask for your money back since clearly
you needed the PG, maybe even more then what
you were taking and it looks like the N.D.
was just interested in selling product. I hope
I'm wrong and you bought the items somewhere
else.

Also, I'm not sure but I don't think iHerb
offers a money back guarantee other then
on items that have not been opened...clearly
worthless. The fact that you can't find
their return policy is a red flag.

Wray offers an unconditional guarantee
which she clearly states in her product
description.

I'm eager to see Wray's answer to your question
too because I have
a friend that's unclear on exactly when to
start the cream too.
Jan 09, 2012
 re
by: Valerie

I order from I herb a lot. For other supplements. I haven't been taking anything not sure what you were talking about there. I am planning on ordering this from Azure with our next order http://www.azurestandard.com/shop/product/1642/

I think I figured it out, for the cycle thing, 14 days off 14 days on for the cream right?
Jan 09, 2012
 Confusion with cycle?
by: Wray

Hi Valerie You would only use progesterone 14 days on and 14 off if you had a 28 day cycle, do you? We have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray
Jan 09, 2012
 Ooops
by: Linda

Sorry....I read these posts so fast and then
decide to respond I get them mixed up.

I just emailed Azure to find out how many
milligrams of progesterone is in their
product...that would be a good thing to know
to figure your dosing.

Also...a friend took another product that
had a lot of oils in it like this one and
found it very hard to get rubbed in and
wonders how well it's absorbing. Just
something to think about.
Jan 10, 2012
 Azure's progesterone
by: Linda

Following is the response I received from
Azure....I'll let you make the phone call:

The Restored Balance company has not provided that information. You can
contact them at
(800) 865-7499

Have a great night,
Elaine
Jan 11, 2012
 re
by: Valerie

They also have a website that I have looked into, I sent an e mail, I am awaiting a response.
Jan 14, 2012
 Get your money back!!!
by: Wray

Hi Linda I love your enthusiasm, but I think you've confused Valerie too! I'm very pleased you emailed Azure, as their website says nothing about how much progesterone is in the product. Or how much it is without signing in. The other ingredients appear to be safe though. Pity they can't give you the info, full disclosure is essential. As for your friend, I would have to know a bit more to help her. But briefly, all women, irrespective of their cycle length, ovulate 12-14 days before bleeding. Progesterone should be started at ovulation. The Azure site tells women to use progesterone 14 days on and 14 days off, which is incorrect. We do have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray
Jan 14, 2012
 re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie I would be interested in hearing what you find out, as Linda drew a blank. And I found nothing on their website. But their info on using it 14 days on and 14 days off is incorrect. It should be used at ovulation, which as I told Linda is always 12-14 days before bleeding. I see I missed your query about spotting. This indicates a defective luteal phase, as progesterone levels are dropping too low, too soon. MMP's are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle, see here If they are over active, as would be the case with excess oestrogen in the body, as oestrogen stimulates their production, the result is a pathological reaction. A high level of MMP's can lead to inflammation, spotting and/or excessive bleeding in the uterus. If a low level of progesterone is present, and a high level of oestrogen, the lining will continue to grow. With a high level of MMP's the lining will also continue to break down. Progesterone suppresses both MMP's, see here, and oestrogen. You don't have the heavy bleeding, but you do have spotting. Progesterone can lengthen the luteal phase and prevent this. But please use sufficient, I recommend 100-200mg/day, as I've found anything less tends to make things worse. Take care Wray
Jan 15, 2012
 re
by: Valerie

Still confused as to when I would start the cream. How do I know when I ovulate ? Should I track the days of my cycle before starting to see how long my cycle is. To be honest I don't know for sure how many days it is for sure. It is regular but hasn't always been. I used to have about a 2 week long heavy periods. I haven't had a cycle like that in a while though.
For the spotting I thought that is how your period should start? Day or so before full flow to have spotting, that's not normal?

I have 2 children that were easily conceived, so things are ok there. Just wanted to add that.
Jan 17, 2012
 re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie A normal luteal phase is 12-14 days, with no spotting beforehand, or spotting within that time frame. So the spotting you experience could be occurring on days 10 and 11, but unless you check how long your cycle is, and your luteal phase too, you won't know if the spotting is beginning too soon. Ovulation is normally preceded by the mucus plug coming away, and a slight rise in temperature too. About 20% of women also feel slight pain as the follicle bursts releasing the egg. If you would prefer to work out the length of your cycle, and check for ovulation signs, then do so. Although you can start the progesterone on guess work. Bear in mind it can upset the cycle, making it either earlier or later than normal. This settles within a month or two. You were going to use it for 14 days, and off for 14 days, which gives you a 28 day cycle. If you think you have one, then try this. Take care Wray
Jan 19, 2012
 re
by: Valerie

I will be tracking my cycle for a month or two before I start. I also feel the pain you are referring to, no every month but some.

Thanks so much!
Jan 20, 2012
 re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie It is a good idea if you can put up with the oestrogen dominance symptoms you have. The pain is referred to as Mittelschmerz, or 'middle pain', see here and here. We ovulate on alternate sides each month, but lack of pain doesn't mean you haven't ovulated. Try to keep a track of other signs of ovulation such as temperature rising and the mucus plug coming away. Take care Wray
Jan 24, 2012
 re
by: Valerie

This is the response i got about the Restored balance

"There are 1800 mgs per container.
Use one half container per month, each container should last about 2 months.
Each 1/8 t-spoon has 17 to 19 mgs.
Women who are under 120 lbs use 1 time per day, women who are 125 to 150 use
2 times per day, women over 165 starts with 3 times per day then
Cut back to 2 times per day"

Does your weight have anything to do with how much you use or how often? I weigh over 200 lbs.

I am leaning towards buying the product you sell on here.
Jan 25, 2012
 re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie Thanks for this. I don't agree with the amount they suggest. I've found too low an amount usually leads to worse symptoms. Weight, height and age have no bearing on how much to use, symptoms only should be used as a guide. Someone could be heavy with mild symptoms, or heavy with severe, this should be the guide. Their ingredients are all good, but I am puzzled as to how they are preserving it, as it only contains antioxidants, no preservative. Please don't feel you have to get our cream, I'm happy to answer questions from users of many other brands or Delivery systems. One thing I would suggest is to check the ingredients and the price. So many think because the container costs less, they think it's cheaper. But you're not buying a cream, you're buying an active ingredient. Please have a vitamin D test done, a lack is often the cause of being overweight, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray
Jan 25, 2012
 re
by: Anonymous

Thanks so much for your help. When I get health insurance again, ( hopefully in March) I will be getting my hormone levels tested and vit D levels tested. I currently take 4000 IU of vit D Daily.

Thanks again.
Jan 26, 2012
 re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie I'm delighted you are taking so much vitamin D, normally it's about 400iu's/day. But if you can, please increase it to a minimum of 5000iu's per day. If you do get the tests done, please look at the ratio of P:E2, as this is the critical factor, not so much the amount. But make sure they do the progesterone test too, as often they don't. I do hope you come right. Take care Wray
Feb 14, 2012
 re
by: Valerie

So I have kept track of the past month and my last cycle was about 48 days long. This month my period started about 2 weeks later than last month. If it would have started when I thought it should have my cycle length would been 35 days aprox. So maybe I am not as regular as I thought. I will continue to track it. I will also be having hormone levels checked when I get insurance again in March.

Thanks so much for all your help.
Feb 14, 2012
 re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie You have amazing patience! You definitely have an upset reproductive system, thanks so much for doing this, as it does help me so much. Excess oestrogen, testosterone, LH, FSH and prolactin can all upset it. All these hormones can stop ovulation, which prevents any progesterone from being made. This in turn upsets the cycle even more. So if you have a test done, these are the hormones they need to check. Meanwhile please would you look at our page on PCOS. It gives a list of symptoms, one of which is an erratic and/or long cycle. Please look through the symptoms, and if you don't have any of the others, at least that should rule out PCOS. Have you been through a lot of stress in recent months/years? Stress drops progesterone levels sharply, which of course upsets the cycle. In fact bad stress stops ovulation. Do you live in a heavily polluted area? As there are now over 100 oestrogen mimics in our environment, affecting men, women, children and animals too, see Our Stolen Future. This excess oestrogen disrupts the cycle. It's a mad world we live in! Take care Wray
Feb 16, 2012
 re
by: Valerie

I don't fit with almost of the PCOS symptoms. I live in a small town ( under 15,000) always have. We try to eat healthy, by mostly organic produce or grow it ourselves.I have had some stress in the past month. So that could be to blame. I will continue to track things. Thanks
Feb 17, 2012
 re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie Well I'm pleased you don't have any of the other symptoms of PCOS. The stress could well be the reason, so please keep tracking and see what comes of it. Do keep in touch. Take care Wray
Jun 18, 2012
 Re
by: Valerie

I have been keeping track of things and my cycles have been regular. Heavy at times but bleeding only lasts about a week. Until this month. It started right on time, however it was light at first and that's all it did for about a week, I thought it was done but then spotting and heavier a bit then light and that's how it's been for another week now. Today it seems to be over or just spotty. So almost 3 weeks now. I still have not had any tests, still waiting to get insurance. Just wanted to give you an update. Also when I do get insurance do you recommend i see and OBGYN or my reg family practice, we also have very good mid wives at our clinic.
Jun 20, 2012
 Re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie Thanks for this. I really feel you should consider trying progesterone, particularly if you still have the adverse symptoms you originally mentioned. Tests are expensive, and only tell hormone levels, they can't tell how we're feeling. Besides it's the ratio of the two hormones which is critical, not the actual amount, and these are very rarely checked by either the doctor or the lab. In fact there are only two labs I know of who check the ratio. One is ZRT Labs, and the other is the lab we use when we run Saliva Tests. And if you have been spotting on and off for 3 weeks, it's evident your oestrogen is too high and your progesterone too low. We do have more info on our Menstruation page. There are very few doctors who believe progesterone is needed, so by going to one I don't think you are going to get much help. Take care Wray
Jun 20, 2012
 Valerie
by: Anonymous

Could using a supplement that contains maca have something to do with it? I have been trying some new supplements and one contains maca. I had read that it is supposed to be hormone balancing?

I am also starting to work on getting gluten and refined sugars out of our diets. We already avoid soy but i need to do a better job at making sure we're not eating any soy.

If I do start the progesterone therapy how will i know when I can stop using it?

Thanks so much for your help!
Jun 20, 2012
 Valerie
by: Wray

Hi Valerie Many people have faith in maca, I have tried it myself, but not to the extent where I noticed much difference. Interestingly maca apparently has no affect on oestrogen or testosterone levels according to this one paper, see here. And yet this paper said it increased oestradiol levels, see here. If this is so it could cause Oestrogen Dominance symptoms. It does appear to increase diastolic blood pressure slightly too, see here. I do know one woman who took it who wrote in saying her's went up. Like so many things it depends on the individual, their stress levels, their food, pollution and more. I'm delighted to hear you're removing refined foods, in particular sugars from your diet. Soy is difficult as it's in so many foods, it's actually best to avoid all processed food and then you will be safe. And it's not just soy, phytoestrogens are found in many foods. The following papers list the phytoestrogen content of foods, with seeds, legumes and grains having the highest content, see here. Even foods of animal origin contain them, see here All oilseeds contain phytoestrogens. The USDA Food Composition site is an excellent resource. It's best to get the full report, see here. Another excellent site, particularly for skin care products, is Skin Deep. Many contain oestrogen mimics. If interested in diet, please see our page on Nutrition. You're only 28 so I feel you will need progesterone just to get you over this rough patch, how long it will take is impossible to tell. But I've generally found 3 months is a rough estimate, some need longer. It depends on so many factors not least how much excess oestrogen is present. The idea is to use it until symptoms have gone, and then reduce the amount over a number of weeks. If reduced too quickly symptoms can come back. Take care Wray
Jun 21, 2012
 Re
by: Valerie

I had no idea about flax, wow. I thought I was doing a healthy thing by using flax seeds and flax oil for dressings. What would the best oil option be? Coconut oil?



Thanks so much!
Jun 21, 2012
 RE
by: Valerie

I forgot to ask, if I do decide to try the cream when would I apply it? My cycles have ranged from 24-32 days. I know the cream will help regulate things but on what day would I apply the cream and for how long? Would it be the same day each month? What amount would you recommend I start with? My symptoms are not that severe, mainly irregular cycles, breast tenderness before period, cravings, " cloudy" mind at times.

Thanks!
Jun 24, 2012
 Re
by: Wray

Hi Valerie I think you can still safely use the flax, the amount you'll be eating is very small. And it does have other properties which are beneficial. It's the grains which are the worst, as we tend to eat so much of those, followed by the legumes. The same with nuts too, I am not going to stop eating those or using the oil. Coconut oil is one of the best, but too thick to use as a dressing as is, you'll have to add lemon juice or apple vinegar to make it pourable, plus warming it first. Unless you use MCT oil which is extracted from coconut oil. I use this for all my cooking, salads and veggies, in smoothies, to make mayo, as bath oil and more. It has no taste which is an advantage. It's the same oil we use in the Natpro, and is protective against candida and other fungi as it contains caprylic acid which kills them. Your cycle is very erratic, and progesterone can help to regulate it. It's not a quick fix though. I think the best thing would be to chose a 28 day cycle, as that's the average of your 24-32 day cycles. This would mean starting the cream on day 14-15 and using it for the next 14 days, you should begin bleeding then or shortly afterwards. We have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. But please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first. Do make sure you use enough, as you know I recommend 100-200mg/day dependant on symptoms. It should help the symptoms you get prior to your period, this is caused by progesterone withdrawal, leaving oestrogen dominant. We also have a page on Breast Tenderness which you could look through. Take care Wray

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