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37 y.o mom of five

by Julie
(Florida)

Hello Wray,

I would love to tell you my story and get your input on my situation. As I said I am 37 years old and a mother of five children ages 15,13,9,4 and 1 year. I have been married for 18 years and been pregnant for 57 months (3 miscarriages) and I have been breastfeeding for a total of 130 months and I am still feeding my most recent nursling up to 4 times a day and 4 times at night. I also have not really slept through the night in 15 years because of being pregnant or nursing ( with the exception of maybe a year or so). In addition to that I have always been from early childhood fearful and anxious ( I was adopted at 3 days old so I feel this is part of that).

Now that you have that bit of history I will tell you what brings me here. About 10 years ago I became pregnant for the 3rd time and feared something was not right ( it ended up being a blighted ovum and I miscarried at 13 weeks). During that time I had my first panic attack. This attack lasted a full 9 weeks with very little relief. Over the years since that time I have had problems with panic attacks but nothing that lasted so long and I seemed to be able to take magnesium to help me recover. After my first miscarriage in 2002 I went on to have two more children with very little problem.

My real issues started about 2 years ago when I turned 35. I was at that time nursing my 18 month old daughter and decided to become pregnant again only to miscarry right away within a weeks time of finding out. About 3 months later I became pregnant again and found out at 13 weeks that it was another blighted ovum ( like 8 years before). During the miscarriage I hemorrhaged and lost 4 pints of blood and had to have a transfusion. 3 months after this I became pregnant with my most recent baby who is now 15 months. 9 weeks into his pregnancy I had a subchorionic hemorrhage that kept me on bed rest for the first 1/2 of my pregnancy. I never really recovered my energy after that and suffered with extreme stress and fears for the life of my baby. The day he was born relief flooded me because I finally had my healthy boy in my arms. After his birth I was feeling better both physically and emotionally and I pushed myself very hard in all ways. My stress was high with five kids and also homeschooling. Still during all this time I would battle bouts of fear and paranoias.

This brings us to the present. About 6 month ago I woke up feeling like somebody had drugged me. This lasted about one week and during that time I also felt woozy, lightheaded and dizzy. The more I worried about it the more dizzy I got and the extreme fatigue would come and go a couple of times a week. As time when on everything just seemed to get worse. I started having a buzzy feeling in my feet and legs, headaches, weakness, fatigue, muscle weakness, not being able to think clearly, feeling confused and overwhelmed, trembling on the inside, and just a general feeling of wellness and lightheartedness and dizziness. I thought of going to the hospital more than once. At this point I had no idea what was wrong with me but I saw a well respected herbalist in our area who tested my salvia and urine which indicated very low blood sugar and that my adrenals were fatigued. She put me on a bunch of herbal stuff which did nothing but make me feel worse. No matter what I did I could not get a handle on this low blood sugar/dizzy feeling. I went to an ENT to make sure it was not my ears and was given a clean bill of health. During this time I also changed my diet to the Eat Right for your blood Type diet ( like the Paleo) but that also helped very little. I left the herbalist and cut way back on all my supplements and added salt to all my water. This helped me quite a bit but I still was not by any means normal. I would get these "crashed days" if I did too much and still was weak and dizzy/lightheaded with little energy most of the time. I also was dealing with joint and muscle aches and pain by this time.

After doing more research I realized that most of my problems seemed to be connected to adrenal fatigue ( or so I thought). I found a compounding pharmacy in my area and had a saliva test done on all 8 hormones by ZRT labs. My cortisol was a little low (3.5,1.1,.5,.4) but only about 1/10 of a point below what was considered low normal. My progesterone was 10 (75-270 being normal) and my Estradiol was .9, Testosterone 18, DHEAS 3.1. Under the care of the pharmacist I was put on some multivitamins( Standard Process) that did not agree with me and some DHEA ( 5mg a day). I was told to wean my baby( which I never have done) to correct the rest of my hormone issues. I kept right on feeling as horrid as I ever had. Then one day a lightbulb clicked on and I said to myself could my progesterone be the real problem and wondered if maybe I could get some progesterone cream to help my symptoms while I was waiting for my adrenals to heal. So this past Friday morning I went out and bought Pro-Gest cream and started taking 20mg that night. The same night I found your site and have been reading on it non stop. Yesterday I took about 90 mg split up over 3 times. Last night I slept and fell asleep with no problem for the first time in the whole 6 months since this started, after taking 50 mg right before bed. Night waking and not being able to get back to sleep has been another huge problem. Today my buzzing in my feet and legs has stopped( which it has not in 6 months) and my muscles seem to have regained energy and strength. My list of symptoms is so long and the level of debilitation and loss of quality of life I have experienced has really not been expressed in this letter. I have hardly been able to care for myself let alone be a mom to my five kids. The fear and depression and hopelessness has been too much for words at times. After finding your site and realizing low progesterone is most or all of my problem I finally have hope again. Please advise in dosages and also where to apply. I read an article by Mercola that says we should apply vaginally but find I lose a lot of cream that way unless I only do a small dose at at time. Do you think that there is any truth that the cream becomes ineffective when applied to the skin and gets stored in your fat cells like Mercola says? Thank you Wray for your help and willingness to listen. May God Bless you!

Comments for 37 y.o mom of five

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Nov 12, 2012
 Forgot to add
by: Julie

Wray,

Just wanted to add that I have not gotten my cycle back since the birth of my last baby 15 months ago. My last two babies it came back around 15 month while I was still nursing. I tend to nurse 2-3 years. Also wanted you to know I have gone up to 200mg starting today ( 120 so far). How long will I stay at that dose before I decide I need to go higher? Still dealing with being lightheaded but muscles are still feeling much better today!!!!!! Only a small bit of buzzing has come back but I expect that to resolve as I find the right dose. Looking forward to hearing your input! Thanks a million!!

Julie
Nov 12, 2012
 re; transdermal use of progesterone
by: kathy/katseyes

Hi Julie
I would like to try to help you . Transdermal is probably the best way to go as far as how to take HRT of any kind as it is the best way for absorbtion. Taken orally the liver breaks it down too fast so as you get very little of the hormones nor the benefits. I am doing this myself right now. Wray has a page about this on the website somewhere. I hope this helps. I canmnt answer about the fat cells. I am a newbie to this.. but Wray will know more and i am sure she can tell you or assist you on where to find the info
Take Care
Nov 12, 2012
 cont'd:
by: kathy/katseyes

Hi Julie
Quetion: Could you please tell me what 8 hormones you had tested as i am tryig to figure out what tests i need done to get a scrip for BHT. I saw a compounding pharmacist and i am not sure what i need, he just said full bloodworkup which tells me nothing and recently had tests in October. I need to know what to tell my gyne to try get the scrip. I would appreciate this :)
Thanks
Nov 13, 2012
 37 y.o mom of five
by: Wray

Hi Julie I'm delighted the progesterone is beginning to help you, and that you're using a high amount. Too low exacerbates already existing symptoms, plus adding new. I'm pleased the herbalist diagnosed low blood glucose, as those symptoms certainly point to it. They also point to adrenal fatigue, low progesterone and low vitamin D! They also point to too high an oestrogen level, your ratio is only 11:1, whereas we've found from Saliva Tests it's best if they are 600:1 and over to feel well. This is higher than most labs give. Out of interest my ratio was 5:1 and I felt like a basket case! I've only had the one test, and I was 47 at the time and going through Peri-menopause. So I know how you feel. I also had PND after my daughter, this lasted 4 years, and was enough to convince me to not have any more children! High copper/low zinc also causes depression, PND and psychosis. Did they check your levels? Oestrogen raises copper, suppresses zinc, progesterone does the reverse. Panic attacks and feeling fearful are covered on our Anxiety page. There are a number of nutrients which help. But the most important thing is to keep blood glucose stable. The sharp drop in blood glucose causes the 'headaches, weakness, fatigue, muscle weakness, not being able to think clearly, feeling confused and overwhelmed, trembling on the inside, and just a general feeling of wellness and lightheartedness and dizziness.' It's a sharp drop in this which leads to a rush of adrenaline (overworking the adrenals). Adrenaline is the message to the liver to convert glycogen to glucose. But adrenaline causes panic attacks, a tight chest, difficulty breathing etc. Glutamine helps keep blood glucose stable, about 4000-8000mg/day, inositol too, about 2000mg/day. The salt was a good addition, as the adrenals need sodium to function. Muscle weakness is also a sign of low progesterone and vitamin D, both these reverse myopathy, see here, here and here. Continued below
Nov 13, 2012
 37 y.o mom of five Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Julie This last abstract has nothing on it, so I've pasted a passage from the paper... 'Substantial relief of myopathic disability by progesterone therapy'.....
(We report about a 41-year old woman who was suffering from a general muscle weakness since her early childhood....From July 1998 until July 1999 the patient was treated with progesterone suppositorium 0.4 g once a day from the 14th to the 25th day of the menstrual cycle. In July 1999 her gait had improved significantly and she could get up from a chair more easily, even her ability to walk up and down stairs had improved....Progesterone dosage was increased from 400 mg to 600 mg. In January 2001 the patient reported enthusiastically about the improvement she had gained from progesterone-therapy. The patient reported a clear increase in strength in all affected muscle groups resulting in dramatic functional improvement.) These on vitamin D......here, here and here. I do hope you've stopped the DHEA, I don't believe any woman should be given it, see here, here, here and here. The amount of progesterone you're using is good, it is trial and error. But if you feel you need more help, increase it by another 100mg/day. But before you do this, please have a vitamin D test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Continued below
Nov 13, 2012
 37 y.o mom of five Part 3
by: Wray

Hi Julie I feel yours is too low, and this reduces the benefits of progesterone. Many women have found by increasing their vitamin D levels, persistent symptoms have been resolved. And that's in spite of using very high levels of progesterone, see here Vaginal application is good, I use some there every night so that it can't leak out. But the skin also absorbs it well. There are so many Progesterone Misconceptions I did this page on them. I've used progesterone cream for over 15 years now, sometimes covering my body from top to toe when stressed. About 330mg/day or 2 x 5ml teaspoons. My fat cells are happy, all my other cells are happy, and so am I! Incidentally I also fed my daughter for 3 years, she's 31 now and hasn't taken a day off work because of illness. As a child she never got the usual childhood illnesses either. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Nov 13, 2012
 to Kathy
by: Julie

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for your reply. I have using a progesterone
cream called Pro guest by Emerita since this past Friday. I hope to switch to Natpro next. I just started using 200 mg. yesterday. The day before I used 100mg after reading Wray's site all day Friday.

I had my hormones tested by lab called ZRT. You can Google them and even order your own test. The compounding pharmacy I am with keeps a stock of them, so you might ask your pharmacy about them. The hormones that I had tested were Cortisol, DHEAS, Testosterone, Progesterone, and Estridol. They tested my cortisol four different times during the day so I guess that is how they come up with the number eight. Really it is only five.
Hope that helps.
Julie
Nov 13, 2012
 How much cream
by: Julie

Kathy,
If you do not mind sharing how much cream are you doing a day and have you seen any results. I thought yesterday I may have been waking up soMe estrogen in my body since I was dizzy all day and had a few symptoms come back. They were mild overall and hopefully it is going to pass now I am at 200mg. I wonder how long to stay at 200mg before going up if I keep seeing symptoms...a week?
Thanks,
Julie
Nov 13, 2012
 37 y.o mom
by: Julie

Wray,

Thanks a million for your reply! I have been so excited to hear from you. I have read all of the recent posts in both the forum section and the FAQ section. It has been a wealth of information and I am so glad and grateful to have found it. I can not tell you how much hope you have given me that I am going to be able to recover and go back to feeling human again. I was so sad at what had happened to my life. I have always been a healthy high energy person so this has been a real change.

I have written down all your supplement recommendations and will send hubby by to pick them up on his way home. In addition to the 200mg of progesterone cream, I have started taking 15,000mg of Vit.D a day. 3000mg of Vit. C,a B complex 3 times a day and 400mg of Mag Citrate ( more if I am stressed. I am also on an Adrenal Rebuilder and an Herbal Adrenal support by Dr. Wilson. I also take a GABA and Melatonin to help me sleep. I will see about having my Vit. D tested but until then would you suggest I go up to 20,000? I live in Fl. so I can also spend time in the sun if that would help.

As for the cream I just started with 200mg yesterday but was taking through the day 40mg at a time. I went for 100mg right away this morning and did 50 mg around lunch and plan to do another 50mg after dinner. Also yesterday and today I noticed I was lightheaded most of the day and also felt a bit more aggressive. I wondered if this was the estrogen going up and if I should add more than the 200mg or could it be that in a few more days that will resolve. I guess what I am asking is if I should try going up to 400mg since I am still having so many symptoms and a few that are acting up more than normal. It is better to start higher but how much time do I give it? I will do anything to feel better:) Can you tell?
Thank you Wray! You are a dear! Please bear with me and all my questions and May God Bless you to the fullest for this wonderful work you are doing!! Much love, Julie
Nov 13, 2012
 more questions
by: Julie

Hello Wray (again),

Can you explain the ratio you have found that helps women feel well? You said 600:1. Does this mean 600 parts progesterone to one part estrogen? You said mine was 11:1. So is that 11 parts progesterone to 1 part estrogen. I am just trying to understand as much as I can about what is going on with me and my hormones.

Oh also I only took 5mg. of DHEA for 10 days and stopped taking it. I never felt good about it. After hearing from you I am glad I stopped.

Should I add Zinc to my daily schedule? If so how much?

Thanks again!!
Julie
Nov 13, 2012
 re:
by: kathy/katseyes

Hi Julie
I take 400mg total using it in for 7 days now. First 5 days was taking with a scrip of Prometrium now on Natpro alone. On day eight as of tonight does not make me sleepy though as i wish because i definitely have a hard time sleeping..have been rubbing it into my thighs and lower abdominals and lower back where ever I pain and then a little etra few dabs on my clean face although i cannot say it has helped my skin i seem to have some more blotchiness than usual right now on my face ..but helps the cramping quite a bit.
Thank-you for replying to me and giving me the tests you had done. I hope my gyne will order them all since i have no family Dr so to speak..mine retired and i am glad but the one who took over for her seems like the "not good for me"type only more grief I do not want or need..I can feel people's vibes and hers are negative..have not been to see her and don't want to ..trying to get another Doc but it is hard here in Canada..they make it complicated so for now just the gyne and a clinic or hospital if i get really ill. I will knock on wood because i cannot stand Hospitals ..they are too clinical and remind me too much of death. Sorry but that is how i feel
P.S. I told you Wray was well educated on this stuff and i am glad i was of some help..best way to go into the skin :)
Take care and let me know how things go with you ok?

Kathy
Nov 14, 2012
 37 y.o mom
by: Wray

Hi Julie Bless you for your enthusiast reply! I feel you are on the right road, as you've certainly responded to the higher amounts. You have done a lot of reading, thank you for that, it makes everything I do worthwhile. Like you I was also a healthy high energy person, but over a few years became so pessimistic about everything. So, so tired with no enthusiasm. Thank heavens it all changed. I used to do talks about 12 to 15 years ago. After one, a slightly overweight woman came up to me in tears, in despair about herself, her life. About a year later she organised a talk for me, I couldn't recognise her. Physically she had changed so much, there was such a vibrant energy about her, it was wonderful to see. So pleased you're taking all those supps, all good. If you still have enough sun in winter to go out in, then do so, and stick to the 15,000iu's orally. We make about 20,000iu's when in the sun for about an hour. But that is between 10am to 2pm. If your shadow is shorter than you are you know you are making vitamin D. Dr Wilson's supps are excellent too, glad you're trying those. Once your progesterone and vitamin D are high enough, you'll find these both help sleep, see here, here and here. And here and here. Progesterone activates the GABA receptors which helps sleep, but if there's not enough GABA it won't be very effective. So it's good you're getting your GABA up. The lightheadedness is caused by oestrogen, that was one of my symptoms in Peri-menopause. So dizzy some days I had to lie down, the world would still spin horribly. All gone now. Interesting about the Aggression, that too is progesterone stimulating testosterone in this case. Although I'm in favour of high amounts of progesterone, I also think of cost. If you still have unresolved symptoms on the 200mg/day, then try the 400mg. Many women have found this the optimal amount to start with, see here. When you reduce please do so slowly, no more than 20mg per reduction. Stay on that a few days to stabilise before reducing by another 20mg. Doing it too fast will cause symptoms to come back. Continued below
Nov 14, 2012
 37 y.o mom Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Julie And how long?! I wish I could tell you, but the more symptoms there are, and the worse they are, the longer it will take. You've already seen a difference, so use your symptoms as a guide. Remember stress drops progesterone levels, so symptoms often come back, just use more over a stressful time. You are correct about the ratio.....'11 parts progesterone to 1 part estrogen.' Labs give ratios of 100 up to 500:1, far too big a range. The saliva tests showed a steep rise in progesterone, which resulted in all the women having ratios of 600:1 and over. But the naturopath who runs them for us found they all felt well. It could be 500:1 is fine for some, or even 400:1, but I stick to the 600:1 as I know it results in feeling good. The ratios are interesting, but of more importance is are you feeling well. Relieved you stopped the DHEA. Zinc is low in most soils, so it's low in our food, adding about 15mg/day would be a good idea, as yours is probably low due to the oestrogen. One thing I forgot, please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance, it can come out of the blue. Do let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Nov 14, 2012
 To Kathy
by: Julie

Thanks for your reply Kathy,

It is so nice to hear from others who are onto the same thing. I was at 200mg yesterday and the day before but I was thinking of going up to 300mg today, mainly because I am having non stop lightheadedness for the last 3 days since I started. So I think it has to do with the estrogen. I am improved in other areas though so feeling happy about that. Just want to get to the right dose without too much expense:) I am thinking of adding Energy Vitamins Complex sold on this site also. Looks like it would help a lot with my low blood sugar issues and much more.

I understand you about the doctors!! I am right there with you!! So far I have been getting help from my pharmacist, herbalist and now Wray and I will say she knows WAY more than all of them put together.

Do you mind sharing some of your symptoms that made you decide to go up to 400mg. I have really been so severe I have been next to bed ridden these 6 months so it makes me think I am one of those people who needs to go way up on my dosage too...if I can afford it! So far I am thinking of doing 100mg 3x's a day. Thanks again for your input and help. Please let me know how you are doing.

Julie
Nov 14, 2012
 cont'd
by: kathy/katseyes

Hi Julie,
I am 47 so apparently based on my gyne in P-M?? I hope I m not but i have a myriad of problems illnesses like adrenal issues ,ovarian cyst and possible endometriosis,plus depression etc..I have not had a period for 2.5 months and was pretty regualr except for a couple of cycles that went to 40 days so was told P_M ..no tests and prescribed Provera..problems ever since..anyway my symptoms are insomnia,water retention/bloating (looking prego) constipation, cramping in upper thighs lower abs and lower back..feels like extreme PMS overload...moody etc..etc...too long a list but using 400mg helps some of these symptoms but not all I have only been using now today 9 days in combination with Prometrium up until this past Monday..now stictly natpro from the gyne as i will never take Provera again especialy after what i read and the info Wray kindly provided to me..a little late though because i think it just made things worse for me. I hope this helps although I am not sure what your symptoms are if not as bad as mine then you can use less..goes by severity. Hopefully you are not like me or some of the other women here that are suffering extensively and need higher dosage. Good luck Julie
Take care and keep in touch :)
Nov 15, 2012
 To Wray
by: Julie

Hello Wray,

Thanks so much for your reply! I found the Estrogen Dominance page very helpful. I think you will be happy to hear that I have decided to move my progesterone dosage up to 400mg a day. Yesterday I did 300mg and today will start my first day at 400mg. The day before yesterday was a very stressful day for me so I did see I went down hill a little yesterday.

Feeling pretty well today almost no lightheadedness/dizziness so far today (teh first day since I got started) and feeling good strength in my legs. I only noticed that about 1/2 hour after I took the progesterone( my first dose of 100mg) I started to feel very sleepy. Not the drugged feeling I have had trouble with, just a very drowsy feeling. Should I expect that until my system adjust to the progesterone?

I would also like to order the Energy Boost supplement sold on this site. Is that something that would be good for me and support my adrenals along with the progesterone? It seems to have so many things to help support blood sugar stability that I really wanted to try it as that has been one of my biggest battles since this whole thing started. Another question, I plan to put in an order for 3 tubes of NatPro tonight and I filled out the questionnaire so if I go through that page will I still be able to get one of my tubes for 19.99?

I have also upped my Vit.D to 20,000 a day. Is that a good level or shall I go up more? I hope to have my levels tested but I am not sure when, so being as I am sure I am very low I want to do as much as I can. I am using a sublingle Vit. D. Can you recommend a really good brand?

Also I would love to read about more women who have had this problem during nursing so if you hear of any stories if you will send them to me.

Thanks more than words can say!!! When I am all recovered I want to print up my story and about Natpro and pass it out to women everywhere. I just could not imagine what a big problem this could be.

God's Blessings to you,
Julie
Nov 16, 2012
 To Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I'm pleased you noticed symptoms coming back when stressed. Not that you got them, but that you did notice a difference. So many women tell me it's not working any more, and I always ask if they've been through more Stress, almost invariably they have. The drowsiness will pass, it has such a calming affect on us as it's activating the GABA receptors. The Energy Boost I developed as so many, too many women say they are tired. I used to be too. I actually developed it when I was exhausted, I'd over done things. I was answering queries on the site all day, plus a chef friend asked me to do up a restaurant for him. I love doing that sort of thing. I had people helping me, but I also worked at it too. But only after the end of the day, so we worked late into the night. I could hardly talk at the end! But I realised I needed help to recover, so researched why 'fuel' wasn't getting into my cells. In my case, as in so many, it's caused by Insulin Resistance, where the glucose is not getting into the cells, as they don't respond to the message of insulin. I read many dozens of studies, and formulated the complex from those. I have used the same amounts as used in the studies, which are far higher than you'd get in a capsule or tablet from a health shop. I've been taking it for over 4 and half years now, I crash if I don't! So please read the insulin resistance page if you haven't and see if you think it's a good thing for you. It does contain all the B vitamins, which always drop if stressed. And if we're stressed so will our adrenals be. Plus many potent antioxidants. There is a link on the page to the formula itself, which gives a brief summary of what each nutrient does. If you did the questionnaire, we do give a once off 30% discount for any amount of tubes. If you didn't take advantage of it at the time, you won't be able to do it again. So please fill in the form on this page here. An email will be sent to our admin department who will refer back to me about it. I'll tell them to give you a coupon for the purchase. Continued below
Nov 16, 2012
 To Wray Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Julie 20,000iu's is a very good dose! I don't think you need go higher. If and when you do your test, it won't give you what your level had been, only what it is at the time of the test, but that's fine. I like to support Dr Cannell, he's doing such amazing work making people aware of how important vitamin D is. Plus his is combined with all the necessary co-factors. You can go via his site here. And then click on the link to the supplements bottom right hand. Or go straight to the suppliers, see here. I've just been corresponding with a woman who suffered exactly as you have, symptoms starting after stopping breast feeding. Although I save all my replies, I can't remember her name! But is she should write back to me, or I remember it, I'll let you know. Blessings to you, take care Wray
Nov 16, 2012
 to Kathy
by: Julie

Thanks for your reply Kathy,

I was asking about your symptoms to gauge if I should go up to 400mg which I have done as of yesterday. My symptoms came on about 6 months ago and have been pretty severe. Non stop dizziness/lightheadednes, major muscle weakness/pain,headaches, major fatigue, foggy thinking, memory loss just to name a few. I have been in bed for most of the past 6 months and pretty much not able to do the basics in life. So I guess I have been severe which is why I thought I better move up to 400mg. I have noticed some improvement in areas already but it some I have noticed a flare up. I am guessing that is the estrogen and it will pass soon now I am on the 400mg. Keep me posted on how you do!
God Bless,
Julie
Nov 18, 2012
 To Wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

I hope you are doing well! Thank you for the information in your last reply. I can not tell you what a blessing this site has been to me. I am reading this site all day long and into the night every free moment I get. I have figured out how to use the search feature and I am able to read older forum thread according to topic. That has helped me to read all your replies to others which is a huge help. So thank you again!

When I was reading the older forum threads I read that Vit D. is a hormone and that it has a close connection with progesterone as far as what it does in the body. I saw where one person thought they might be having a reaction much like they were having with the introduction of progesterone when adding high doses of Vit. D. I wondered if this was going on with me also. I went from pretty much never taking Vit. D to taking 20,000 a day. At any rate I am guessing if there is an adjustment phase I will get through it soon. I am so determined to recover I am not going to let anything slow me down.

Also in the past week my daily cream dosage is as follows,20mg,90mg,110,200,200,300,400,400,400 and I will be taking 400 again today. The first two days I noticed some improvements and then for 3 days or so I was very lightheaded/dizzy and after that I have been all levels of severe fatigue and feeling drained or drugged. Is that is a result of going up so fast on the dosage and not giving my body much time to get adjusted. I thought I read it can take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks to adjust once you go up on a dosage. I guess I am asking if what I am dealing with is normal and to be expected. I never feel this tired, fatigued and drained of all energy in my muscles so many days in a row. That is why I thought it was be a result of my going up and the estrogen being awakened? I am not discouraged and will do whatever it takes. I just want to make sure I am on the right track. My thinking was since my progesterone was so low (10), that my estrogen just took right off and dominated my already super low levels of progesterone and that is what I have been feeling these last few days.

My question is do I just keep waiting it out on this dose of 400mg and it will eventually start to increase my progesterone and I will start to feel better or do I need to go up more? I was really hoping to stay at 400 because of the expense otherwise I would do a tube a day if that is what it took :)

cont. below
Nov 18, 2012
 cont. from above
by: Julie

Also just to clarify since I am still nursing would this just be considered a form of PND that I am experiencing? Was it something that was there from the birth and just got worse until at 8-9 month postpartum the major symptoms came flooding in? I will say when I think back I was very emotional and VERY paranoid about EVERY little thing after the birth of the baby. My doula who is a wonderful person even got mad at me and said, "Why can't you just enjoy your baby! "

Sorry to ramble on so!

Oh I was able to get the Natpro ( got 4) for the discount and I hope to order the Energy Boost today. I am very excited about it. If I am on the energy boost is there anything else I need to be using for anxiety ? I also have some Hair Loss so do I need to take anything extra for that? Just trying to get all my supplements together.

Thanks a million Wray!!

God Bless,
Julie
Nov 19, 2012
 To Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I'm so delighted you're using the search feature! I wish others would. With all that reading you'll go squint! But if your eyes get tired, try taking taurine. It's an amino acid which is vital for the eyes, and any other tissue which oxidises rapidly like the heart and brain. It's a potent antioxidant, I make up 2% eye drops for myself, and use them night and morning to clean and help my eyes. You are right about the vitamin D, one woman saying she got Oestrogen Dominance like symptoms, and began bleeding. I was so fascinated by this I did a page on both Progesterone and Vitamin D, the synergy is remarkable. If you have a lack of magnesium and increase the D, you can experience pain in your muscles and joints. So up your Mg intake, it is the most important co-factor anyway. So large amounts of vitamin D will require higher amounts of Mg. Increasing to high amounts quickly is far better than doing it slowly, as the progesterone will continue to stimulate oestrogen. There is an adjustment period, but usually not very long with the high amounts. Although it could be a lack of magnesium causing this too. I don't think you need go higher than the 400mg/day, this is generally a very good start point. The cream you are using only contains 16mg/ml of cream, or 900mg per tube. So you will be going through it very quickly. I don't normally do this, but you could consider using our cream. It contains 33.3mg/ml of cream and is half the price too. If interested you can look at the ingredients on this page here. Having put all that I see you have ordered it! Let me know what you think of it. If you had symptoms immediately after birth, then yes most definitely PND, and you still have it. The EB contains all the nutrients you need for Hair Loss. One of the most important is inositol, there's 4000mg, often called the anti-alopecia vitamin. It also contains calming aminos, vitamin D and the B vitamins which help anxiety, inositol does too. Plus it contains taurine which will help those eyes of yours! It's also a calming amino too. Let me know how you get on with it. Take care Wray
Nov 19, 2012
 cont'd
by: kathy

Hi Julie,
It appears we do have some of the same symptoms and it is not a nice thing to go through for anyone. It is good you are dosing at 400mg a day but some of your symptoms seem severe so you may be advised to up it even more..but Wray will be the one to let you know that as I am a "newbie".
I have taken a break to see if i get a cycle as my P-M symtoms came on suddenly and i believe there is an underlying cause since P-M is a gradual process and not just out of the blue. I was on 400 mg with a combo of prometrium for 10 days going by what Dr's/ FDA prescribe for lack of menses or secondary ammenhorea. I did my last dose Thursday night ..so far no cycle :( so i guess maybe this is it for me the slow decline into The big "M"...which scares the crap out of me and i am trying to increase my Vitamin D also up to 7,000 mg a day now but would like to hit 15,000 by December. Due to my financial situation it is costly and i am on a limited Gov't income. I also am taking the B complex for my adrenals which i know are exhausted known that since last year. I believe this is where this hormonal imbalance began and this is the reason I suddenly went from being normal with regualar cycles and normal estrogen levels to where i am now in a 6 month time span. Anyway I hope things start to get a little brighter for you soon..keep doing what you are doing and hope for the best I am sure you will be doing better in no time. :)
Kathy
Dec 02, 2012
 moved my reply
by: Julie

Hello Wray,

Just wanted to reply to your other comment on my own thread so I am not taking up another persons page :)

Below is your comments so you can see what I am replying to.

I wanted to ask you about how much magnesium I should be taking since I am taking such a large amount of Vit. D ( 20,000IU). Right now I have been taking about 800-1000mg of Mag. a day. In addition I am taking 1/2 a dose of your EB formula and working up to a full dose. I am also taking about 4000mg a day of Vit C and some additional B complex later in the day, as well as 660mg of Kelp and 20mg of iron. I am also taking glutamine through the day in my water. I would guess about 4000 3-4 times a day. Is that to much? I welcome any comment on what I am taking and if I am taking enough. I also take Noni Max juice 3 times a day ( 1oz. each time). I am taking the Natpro 4 times a day at about 100-120 per time for a total of about 450mg a day. I have recently mostly nightweaned my baby and put him in his own crib so that is helping me to get a lot more sleep that I have in a long time. I am getting as much as 4-6 hours straight which is a huge improvement since I was being woken up every 10-30 min all night long before last week.

I am happy to be seeing some small results here and there. I seem to be over the hump and pray it gets easier everyday. Thanks again Wray!!!
******************************************
Hi Julie Ah so I was right, my memory sometimes plays up! Magnesium is such a calming mineral, whereas calcium excites. Mg relaxes muscles, Ca constricts, both needed to make our muscles work, but too much Ca causes them to tighten up. Bless you for saying you love the Natpro, we have tried to make it as pleasant as possible to use. It has helped with me using it of course, as I don't like thick greasy creams. Unless they contain the natural plant butters for rough areas. So delighted the 400mg/day is helping, it is a bumpy ride in the beginning, please don't forget that. Pleased you're going to build up with the EB, you can have a slight detox from it, so watch for aches or flu like symptoms. It doesn't happen to everyone. I've taken it every day now for about 5 years, can't do without it, if I forget I have a major slump! Noni is good, but very expensive! Full of antioxidants, so you'll be getting a double whammy, as the EB if full of them too. All the studies coming out now, on all major diseases are saying they believe they're caused by oxidative stress, i.e. too many free radicals. I feel we should all be taking antioxidants to cope, as stress also causes a cascade of inflammatory cytokines. Would love you to keep in touch, feedback is so essential for me. Take care Wray
Dec 03, 2012
 moved my reply
by: Wray

Hi Julie It doesn't really matter about replying on another page, but it does help me going back to your page. I can then follow the thread that's going on! That amount of magnesium is good, very good. I'm amazed it hasn't caused your tummy to be upset. Obviously the citrate isn't as bad as the others. Have a look here, this is the brand Dr Cannell endorses, they have 225mg/dose with 5000iu's vitamin D, so your dose is spot on. Once you're at the 4tsp per day for the EB you won't need the extra B vitamins. I don't think you need that much glutamine, the EB has 4000mg/dose anyway, of which you're taking about 2000mg now. Try 8000mg/day, I don't think you need go higher, unless you found it helped you. Don't remind me of those sleepless nights! But I'm so happy he's mostly sleeping through now. That does make a huge difference to your well-being. I hope it gets easier for you too, the sleeping will undoubtedly help a great deal. Please let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Dec 11, 2012
 to Wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

I wanted to ask you about my 13 year old daughter who has mild acne on both her forehead and her back. I was thinking of doing 100mg progesterone a day for her to help with this. Do I need to follow her cycle or just go straight through the month until the problem clears up? Also will 100mg be enough. She has no other major issues other than being a little moody at times with her brothers.

Thanks,
Julie
BTW I am getting a long pretty well. Noticing some improvements. Still have some issues that need to clear up but I know you said it can take 6 months to get all right.
Dec 14, 2012
 to Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie So pleased things are improving, it does take time. There's no way of telling what other hidden issues need correcting, we're only ever aware of the symptoms which get us down. The 100mg/day progesterone sounds about right for your daughter, but see how you get on with this. If not enough it can be increased. If your daughter has a regular cycle, I would suggest following it. Progesterone can disrupt it in some women, not in others, it would be a pity to disturb it unnecessarily. If this doesn't help then use it daily. We do have a page on Acne you could look through. The changing hormones during puberty can play havoc with us, not a happy time! It would appear she hasn't begun ovulating yet, hence the higher testosterone and oestrogen. We do have a page on Menstruation which goes into more detail. It is safe for her to use, I put my daughter on it aged 14, and she had a trouble free puberty. She's now 31 and still using it. If you want further reassurance about it's safety, please read this article from Emory University followed by the study paper if you want to wade through the science! They've found it's effective against neoblastoma, the major brain tumour found in children under 1 year, see here and here. Take care Wray
Dec 14, 2012
 to wray
by: Julie

Thanks you Wray,

I will follow her cycle at your suggestion and see how we go with 100mg. On another note I am thinking of having a saliva test for my thyroid since I have some of those symptoms also. One of the odd one is an odd buzzing/tingling in feet and legs that can at time feel like at it all over my body when I am feeling extreme fatigue. On my good days that symptom is much better.I hear this goes along with thyroid. I was wondering about taking some Kelp/Iodine but I read you need Iodide to make it work well together to help the thyroid. I also read not to do much until I get more progress with my adrenals. I am still taking Dr. Wilson products along with your EB.

I have also started sleeping in the living room while hubby offers to take care of the baby overnight ( who sleeps in a crib in our room) I got 5 hours straight last night which does not sounds good but that is the most have had in 2 years. My goal is 8 hours starting tonight with the help of hubby. I hope to see some major improvements with sleep since the severe deprivation is what I think started my hormone issues. Any input is great! Thanks you Wray! Be Blessed!!!
Dec 15, 2012
 to wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I would like to know how your daughter responds, please keep in touch about it. It could be your thyroid, but that also responds to vitamin D, so who knows whether it's a direct thyroid problem or a vitamin D problem! Maybe it will improve as you continue with the progesterone and vitamin D. Oestrogen also slows it down too. This is an excellent article on iodide/iodine here. What a lovely husband you have! I do hope you get the sleep you so desperately need. Let me know how you get on too. Blessings to you too! Take care Wray
Jan 14, 2013
 To Wray ( update on me)
by: Julie

Hello Wray,

Just wanted to give you an update on how I am doing after 2 months of being on the Natpro cream and about 6 weeks on The Energy Boost Formula. When I first wrote to you I was in very bad shape and through your help and guidance I believe I got directed to the main source of my problem which it turns out was my thyroid. After being on the cream and the EB I noticed some improvement but still had some issues that were not improved and did not seem directly connected to the low progesterone issues. After talking to my sister( who has had a thyroid problem for 10 years) about my symptoms she suggested I try a product that includes 3 different types of Iodine and L-Tyrosine. After being in contact with the makers of the product they suggested that I take 4 pills a day for 3 months which is equal to 60mg of iodine a day. Within a week of using the product I was seeing improvement and after 3 weeks of using it I was about 95% back to my normal self. A person I have not seen since before last May. It was like a miracle. I have been using the iodine for about 4-5 weeks now and although I still have some minor problems with low blood sugar once in a while and some inner trembling/muscle jitteriness when I get anxious or very tired. I notice it more at night than anything. Other than that I am just about 100%. A major improvement from where I was. I was mostly bed ridden before this and could not do the most simple things. Some days just getting dressed was such a chore. Yesterday I went shopping at the mall for 3 hours straight and had loads of energy the whole time. My Hubby and 13 year old daughter were the ones dragging behind. I still would like to see a little more improvement but I know it is still early and I have made so much progress. At this point I am taking 400mg of the NatPro cream and 2tsp of the EB (some days I take a full dose). I am still taking 20,000 of Vit ( wondering about going down to 10,000), Noni Juice 3 times a day and an adrenal glandular along with an over the counter dessicated thyroid (Thyro-gold). I am also taking a few other supplements and of course the iodine. I have also been sleeping in the living room while my husband takes care of the baby overnight, so I have been sleeping from 10-5am most nights with no interruption. Any other suggestions you have more me would be great. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I am not sure I would have ever gotten this far without your guidance. I believe you were sent by God! Just another note when I took your EB into my healthfood store they herbalist in there said " I am not sure where you got this but this is a GOOD product!" I would like to put my 13 year old on both iodine and Natpro as soon as cost allows. Thank you again!!
Jan 14, 2013
 To Wray
by: Julie

Wray ,

I also wanted to mention that I have started making my own bone broth ( cooking the bones for at least 24 hours)and drinking a pot of that a day. I am also including the giblets when I can. This has been going on for about 3 weeks and I also feel this has been a great help. I have been taking chicken, lamb, beef and turkey broth each for 2-4 days on the same bones. Just wanted to add that for othesr who are reading and in the kind of shape I was.

Oh also wanted to mention that the muscle aches and weakness that were a daily issues for me are 99% gone!!

Thanks again Wray for all your work. I hope to get all my labs done again soon and I will give you an update when I get the results.
Jan 15, 2013
 To Wray ( update on me)
by: Wray

Hi Julie Bless you for the kind words! I'm so delighted your sister suggested the iodine. I did give you that link to an excellent article on it, hope you had time to read that. I know there is now an iodine deficiency epidemic again, but I tend not to tell a people, unless they have either Breast Tenderness or Breast Cysts. I feel we should all be having it, particularly women. The dilemma I have is there are so many wonderful nutrients, how many do I tell people to take without sounding like a nut case! Two years ago I did the skin test on myself and my level was fine. Recently I have been corresponding with another woman about iodine, and decided to test myself again. I was alarmed as the patch faded so quickly. I've been taking iodine drops (Lugol's), but the level hasn't gone up. As I don't like the taste I thought I'd go back to making the miso soup and nori wraps I used to eat, evidently they kept my level fine. I'm very interested in the supplement you're taking and feel it would be useful for others to know. So I came across this site which I feel is the one you're taking, see here. Please confirm if I'm right. The dose is very high! But as with vitamin D, I feel it's always best to get the level up high, and then reduce to a maintenance dose. The same with the progesterone too. You'll see on the two breast pages I've given above, that I recommend taking tyrosine too, and selenium a necessary co-factor for the production of T3 and T4. Why we are not given these nutrients instead of thyroxine, I'll never understand. So delighted the heath food store said the EB was good! I can't remember if you've done our questionnaire? If not, you'll find the link top right of this and every page. Once you've done it you can get any amount of Natpro at a 30% discount. It's a once off offer, although we do have a 30% discount on 20 tubes. Maybe this would help a bit, plus being able to see if it helps your daughter. So delighted you're doing the broth, it's rejuvenating powers are amazing. It's that old wives tale of 'Chicken Soup'! And it does work. Love to hear about the lab results. Take care Wray
Jan 22, 2013
 To Wray
by: Julie

Thank you so much for your reply Wray,

The link you found is the iodine I am using and it is been really good. I would suggest it to everyone since much like Vit. D most people are low on iodine. Even more so if they have had more than 3 babies. In my case with 5 kids, it now seems clear how I got so low on everything.

I have another question. I have been going a long fine on the 400mg and have been feeling much better for about one month now. I am fine with keeping on with the 400mg for as long as I need to but I have noticed in the past week or so that I have started having mild dull cramping that seems to be last most of the day. It is not very painful but enough to notice and be annoying. It feels more like what I would feel in early pregnancy rather than typical cramps. I night weaned my 17 month old about 6 weeks ago and he is only nursing about 3 times a day. So I wonder if my period is trying to come back and the progesterone is preventing it. I also notice a little ovary pain on one side kinda near my hip so I am guessing that is part of the same thing. So I am wondering how to proceed. Should I cut back on the progesterone for a few days or cut it off all together to see if I start my period? Any input would be great. I would like to get rid of these annoying cramps. Thank you again Wray!! You are a blessing!!!
Jan 26, 2013
 To Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I'm so pleased, I thought it had to be, as the ingredients and the dose fitted. I've already given the link to three women! And yes most of us are low in iodine, I told you I was. It's interesting you are having some mild symptoms after weaning, others have reported the same. Sometimes they get full blown depression. The 'ovary' pain, if that's what it is, sounds like an egg is trying to ovulate. We only ovulate from one side each month, it usually alternates too, and pain does occur in 20% of women, it's called Mittelschmerz, see here, here and here. I suggest you wait for 12-14 days from when you first felt the pain, to see if you get a period. If you do you could stop the progesterone, but please watch for return of symptoms. If you don't, but feel it could help, then by all means stop it. In the meantime try rubbing the cream all over the cramping area. Let me know what happens! Take care Wray
Jan 27, 2013
 to wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

The cramping in the hip and side stopped after a hour of getting really bad period cramps. I have felt them a few more times on and off but no period. I had a breakdown of sorts today. Rage, anger and major physical outburst. I was screaming and throwing things. This is not at all normal for me so I think it is from being off the progesterone for a week and take a low dose the week before.

My husband was so sorry for me and suggested that I must get back on the progesterone. I really agree so I started it back up today and may see if I can get by on about 300mg...will my period come when it is ready at that dose? I was at 400mg. Thanks for listening! I will keep you updated.
Jan 29, 2013
 to wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I didn't realise you had stopped the progesterone. If there had been a lining in the uterus it would have shed, evidently there isn't one. It does sound as if your body is gearing up to it, with the 'ovary' pain and the cramping. Your outburst took me back to when my daughter was 2-3 years old, terrible rages, I would smash things too. How I wished I'd known about progesterone then! I'm pleased you're using it again, see how you get on with the 300mg, although you might need the 400mg to begin with, then reduce back down. Once the body gets into gear again, 300mg won't stop it. I've found it has to be 400mg, or higher in some women to stop bleeding. It's so interesting to me that by adding the Thyroid Care you felt 100%, but then stopping the progesterone you're back to square one. The body is so hugely complex, each system interacts with the other. It's finding out which part is not operating at par that's the hardest part. It can take so long to do all the tweaking that's required, adding this, then that. But it seems you're on the right track. I would love to know how you get on, it's the feedback which is so invaluable for me. And makes what I do so fascinating. For instance that complex you found, I've now given the reference to others. It's also reminded me to think 'thyroid' too! Take care Wray
Jan 30, 2013
 Wray
by: Julie

As always big thanks for your input Wray! I was off the progesterone for about a week. I am putting in a new order tomorrow! I am just using about 200-300mg right now cause I do not have much left but I shall start up at 400mg for a week or so and reduce to 300mg and see how I do. Just to clarify the Thyroid Care gave me my energy and stopped that drugged feeling I would get a couple of times a week. That remained better in that repect even without the progesterone but I did notice that without the progesterone my blood sugar was more unstable and also the inner feeling of trembling and anxiety and nightmare came back. With those the rage and the mental instability. I look forward to next week when I can be back on Natpro...until then I think I will pick up a tube from my local store tomorrow of progesterone cream. I shall keep you posted!! I am finally on the right road and so thrilled!!
Jan 31, 2013
 Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie A week would be enough to set you back. Very interesting about the Thyroid Care giving you energy but you still need the progesterone. Our systems are so interconnected, we have to look at the whole, not the parts. I do have a health questionnaire I did many years ago. I've always wanted to get it on the site, but time! I think I have to find the time, as I've come to realise how much help it would give the enquirer and me. I've been helping a woman for over a year now, and gradually piecing together what's wrong. Yesterday I extracted all the symptoms for low adrenal function from the questionnaire, and sent her the list. She says she has about 90% of them. How much quicker it would have been for you too, if the questionnaire was on the site, you would have picked up the low thyroid function. The symptoms overlap in so many cases, it's looking through them all and deciding which needs correcting, possibly all of them! You are correct about the unstable blood glucose, progesterone does help, whereas oestrogen destabilises it, see here. You might like to look at our page on Aggression it might explain the rage, I had that badly after having my daughter, surprised she still speaks to me! So sorry about the stock out. The lab this year decided to take a 3 week break over Christmas/New Year. This meant we had to calculate how much we needed them to make to tide us over until they opened again. Unfortunately we didn't quite make it. So delighted you feel you're on the right road! Take care Wray
Jan 31, 2013
 Wray
by: Julie

Another question for you Wray,

I have been taking your Energy Boost powder for about 2 months and I notice that even when I take only 1/2 a dose at a time I have a blood sugar drop that last for about 30-45mins afterwards. I feel kinda shaky and lightheaded and then it just kinda passes. I can try to split it up into one 1tsp at at time or is there something else I need to do?
Feb 01, 2013
 Wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

Wanted to give you yet another update... I know how much it helped me to keep reading others full story in one place to see how they got along. So I keep posting in this thread, but let me know if I should start a new one. Anyway 3 days shy of being 18 months postpartum ( and still nursing 3-4 times a day) I finally started my period last night. I was thrilled as I hope it means my hormones are getting more back to normal and that this will help me overall with both my hormones and my thyroid.

My question is shall I start on the 300mg of cream while I am still on my period? Or do I need to wait until it is over? I would like to continue to use the cream straight through my cycles for a few more months and if 300mg is a good dose I will just go with that. Oh and you were right when you said it was ovulation a couple of weeks ago that cause all that cramping. Your worth your weight in gold! Thanks again Wray!
Feb 02, 2013
 Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie This is most odd as the whole idea is to stabilise blood glucose. Each one of the ingredients in some way plays a part in helping insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, diabetes and heart disease. My problem now is finding which one is causing this to occur with you! Once the shakiness passes are you feeling fine again? But more importantly, is it helping! Can you go back to 1/4 of the dose, and see if that's ok. And if it is stay on that dose for a while before increasing it to 1/2 the dose. And let me know if this helps. Take care Wray
Feb 03, 2013
 Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie Oh no, please keep this thread going, even if it gets to 100 pages worth! I need to look back in time, to remind myself of what's been going on, see if I've left anything out, or you've said something I've missed. I have one woman now who starts a new page each time, and I simply can't keep up. I have no reference at all to what occurred before, I wish my memory was that good! So looking back through your thread, I see your period came 15 months after your last two babies, so this is good! You might be interested to know that our ancestors, and women still living in rural societies, only had about 100 menstrual periods in a lifetime. We now have up to 400, which has lead some researchers to believe that could be one reason why breast cancer has escalated, see here. Another worth reading, see here. The pregnancies, when we are secreting a great deal of progesterone, followed by lactation and the hormones prolactin and oxytocin, prevent us from falling pregnant. These three hormones stop the reproductive cycle, otherwise nothing would prevent us from falling pregnant while being pregnant! Or being pregnant while breastfeeding, both of which demand a huge amount of energy from us. Because you were gradually weaning him, prolactin and oxytocin were slowly dropping. Oxytocin is a 'feel good' hormone, so with this declining, but no reproductive cycle going, i.e. you weren't ovulating, you had no progesterone to 'take over'. It's no wonder you were not feeling too good. Hopefully things will get back to normal soon. I see no reason to stop using the progesterone daily, Dr Dalton says how good it is for breast feeding, see here. And if you find the 300mg/day a good amount, continue with that. Hopefully you will be able to reduce slowly over the coming months. I'm so delighted to hear that my prediction about the cramps was caused by ovulation! Take care Wray
Feb 03, 2013
 Wray
by: Julie

Thanks for your reply Wray,

I just got started back to 300mg yesterday ( I picked up some cream from my local store but plan to get my Natpro ordered). Up until yesterday I was taking anywhere from 0mg up to about 200mg. This has been going on for about 3 weeks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the muscle weakness comes back without a stable amount of progesterone. So I expect to see everything get back to normal of the next week or so.

I will keep you posted on how I am doing! I still have a few things to work out but they are very minor compared to what I was dealing with when I first got started.

About the EB formula, After about 30-45 min I go back to feeling normal. My friend thinks it could be the D-Ribose or the Inositol. Anyway I will cut back and see how I do. Thanks again!!
Feb 06, 2013
 Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I do hope you stabilise again, it is something to know that progesterone is working for you. Often we forget the symptoms we had, and it's not until we stop we realise it was working! A friend of mine used to do decorative wall coverings, without using gloves. She developed arthritis, so I gave her some progesterone. A few weeks later we were having lunch together and I asked how her hands were. She looked at them in astonishment, saying she hadn't realised the pain had gone! Your friend could well be right about the inositol and D-ribose. Inositol sensitises insulin, so increasing glucose disposal, see here. I don't think the D-ribose would have too great an affect, as it's only 300mg/dose. One study used amounts ranging from 83.3 to 222.2 mg/kg per hour, the equivalent to a 50kg person getting 4165mg to 11,110mg per hour! This did reduce glucose levels, see here. Let me know if cutting back helps you. Take care Wray
Feb 27, 2013
 Update
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

Another update on my journey. Well it turns out it was the progesterone that was making me feel better not so much the iodine( although I can only think that it has helped somewhat). To back up a little, I was on the Natpro for about 6 weeks (Nov-Dec) and started to notice a huge improvement in everything but since I started the iodine the week before I gave that the credit. Well after I last updated you I put my cream back up to 400mg ( that was after being off the cream for about 10 days and on low dose for a couple of weeks prior due to trying to get my period to come). I did this right after I started my first PP period. Well within like 2 days I was feeling most all my old symptoms back with a vengeance and after a few days of that I figured out that I was dealing with estrogen dominance due to stopping and starting the cream. So in a way that made me feel better since I knew what was going on. I started to experience exhaustion, muscle pain and aches, inner trembling/quivering ( which I did look up and see high estrogen causes in many women...this was a symptom that had always bothered me but got a good bit better after 6 weeks on the cream). I was back to BAD nightmares every night, anxiety and heart palpitations and soon I lay down to go to sleep. Also of interest, it was right after my 1st period stopped I started with break through spotting for about a week or more but other than that my period was pretty light for me ( I think cause my progesterone levels were not so low at that point yet). The spotting started after I started noticing all the estrogen dominance symptoms). At this point my nipples started really becoming sore when I nursed my baby, almost like when you are pregnant. Funny enough this stopped 100% the day I started my 2nd cycle a few days ago. I got bad cramping a few days before this past period ( which was not normal for me before all this ) and also this period was MUCH heavier I am guessing due to the estrogen dominance. 3 days ago I decided to move myself up to 500mg of cream a day. With everything I have going on I want to work a little harder to get everything resolved before my next cycle comes ( I am not taking a break from the cream but I guess my body naturally get lower in progesterone right before my cycle...is that right?)
Feb 27, 2013
 Update part 2
by: Julie

My Natpro cream should be here today!! I ordered 6 tubes...another topic of interest is that I ran out of my last tube of Natpro over a month ago ( while I was trying to get my first period to start) and I have just been using the local brand (PRO-GEST or SOURCE NATURALS) and I can not help but wondering if that is another reason why things got so bad so quick! I have noticed I am doing a tiny bit better since starting on 500mg. This makes about 3 weeks and a few days that I back on the cream so I am expecting it to take 6 weeks or so to start seeing any real improvements and get through the estrogen dominance just like last time. Who knows maybe a little quicker with being up to 500mg. I think I could do with much more cream a day but it is the price. Thanks for listening and any input would be an encouragement. I also hope this goes towards your research of what the cream or lack of can do. God Bless! Julie
Mar 03, 2013
 Update
by: Wray

Hi Julie Thanks for the update it does help me. At least you know that stopping and starting, or reducing too low can really upset things. Interesting you thought it the iodine to begin with, although I do feel it did help. The heavier period could be due to stopping the progesterone, this allowed oestrogen to rise, which would then thicken the uterine lining. Once starting progesterone again, this would come away as heavier bleeding. Although endogenous progesterone withdraws prior to bleeding, I don't think this is the reason, as you are using a large amount. What does happen is oestrogen rises mid-luteal phase, this would have an affect on you. We do know from
Saliva Tests we run that the progesterone in Natpro is absorbed well, so you could be right about the other brands. We have discussed vitamin D before, you are trying to increase your level, but due to finical constraints found it difficult. Have you had a chance to get it up high? And have you had a test done yet? It's so important we have enough of this vitamin, and having gone through winter, there's not much help from the sun! I'm not sure if I gave you our paper on Progesterone and Vitamin D but it's fascinating to see the similarity between the two. And how they seem to work synergistically. The price of the cream is a problem, not sure if you know we give a discount on 20 tubes? See here. Some women share this with friends or family, do you know anyone you could share with? Let me know how you get on with the 500mg/day. And please get your vitamin D up high, as this really does help, then maybe you could use less progesterone. Take care Wray
Mar 07, 2013
 to Wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

Thanks again for your reply! I have been taking 20,000 IU of Vit.D a day for the past 3 months and I was thinking of going on with that for another month or two until our summer get very hot (Florida). I was thinking of cutting back to 10,000 IU during the summer months and also getting my Vit. D levels checked and at the same time get my thyroid and hormones checked to see how they are doing. I just love the Natpro cream and would love to order a big supply. I ordered 6 tubes about 2 weeks ago but they still have not come. I have not been able to get in contact with anyone as the email system seems to be down. I have sent out a few other emails to see if I can get any help looking into my order. Please let me know if you know if the cream is back ordered or anything like that. I am very excited to get it and worried it has been so long.
Thanks to you as always Wray!
Julie
Mar 09, 2013
 to Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie The amount of vitamin D you're taking is safe, according to this study here, done by some of the top experts, 40,000iu per day shows no sign of toxicity. But it is always best to have a test done, I have one every 6 months or so. So happy you love the Natpro, but not that your order hasn't arrived. We've been having havoc over the orders recently. We had the shopping cart upgraded, and the man who did it left out some coding. So orders have not been recorded, emails not getting through, or shipping notifications haven't been sent out, and worse some orders have not been sent! I can see how desperate you are, as I got an email from one of our distributors, Joy, who said you'd contacted her! I do know it's being sorted out, but please let me know when you get it. Take care Wray
Mar 09, 2013
 To Wray
by: Julie

Thank you Wray!

It has all been sorted out and I have received word the cream is on the way express with an extra tube for my trouble! I am thrilled:) I was emailing everyone I could think of since I know you get busy and can not reply right away at times due to the volume of emails you get.

Also wanted you to know that after almost 5 weeks back on the cream ( starting at 400 and moved to 500mg for the past 10 days) I am starting to feel quite a bit better!! The first 3 weeks were very hard getting back on the cream and I felt awful! Low energy, weakness, muscle pain, inner trembling/buzzy, lots of low blood sugar issues. That is all much improved and although I still have need for improvement I am so encouraged and it confirms for me that progesterone has been my main issue all this time. I will keep you update! Bless you!! Julie Oh P.S I was thinking of going down to 300mg a day or 2 before my expected cycle and then getting right back to 500mg as soon as it starts. Will this be OK? I figure I do not want to go through what I did 2 months ago with my first cycle so this will work well to keep my levels up.
Mar 11, 2013
 To Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I'm so relieved! You are right about the number of answers I have to give. At least your message got through, some don't and we have a few very frustrated customers because of the mess up, such a pity. I'm delighted you're feeling better at last. It was an experiment that put you through a lot of anguish, but it did prove a point. Having been through the start up phase before, at least you knew what was happening. It's those early weeks which really put people off. As you seem to like experimenting, try your idea of dropping to 300mg/day before your period. I'd be interested to hear what happens. I suspect you won't feel too good, but for a few days it won't hurt. 500mg/day is costly, so when you feel ready, please begin reducing it very slowly. Keep in touch, and bless you too! Take care Wray
Mar 12, 2013
 to Wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

If you think my period will come without reducing I would rather do that. Do you think 500mg. is too high to let my period come? I guess I can try and see what happens. At any rate I was only going to go down to 300mg for about a day because I want to avoid feeling bad ever again :) I will try to get back to 400mg as soon as I feel more stable. I am doing so much better but I notice that if I go more that 3 hours without putting on the cream I am bothered by low blood sugar or low energy.
I hope to have a good report for you after my next period. Thanks so much!
Mar 16, 2013
 to Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie Well 500mg/day does normally stop bleeding. But you're getting the hang of using progesterone and all the ups and downs involved! So just play it by ear. Interesting about using it every three hours, I've found if symptoms are severe it's far better to use it frequently, even hourly if need be. Particularly if pain is involved like migraines, headaches or some ache. Best to rub it directly on the sore spot very often. I did a daft thing a few weeks ago, I fell over backwards into a shallow pond I was making! I landed on my bum, my right hand and scraped a chunk of skin and more off the 'shin' part of my left arm. Well I walked up to the house, started washing the arm, felt a bit faint, so sat down and began applying a thick coating of cream on the arm. My right hand began swelling and my bum too, as that was very sore! So they got cream too, the faintness passed very quickly, I put a bandage on the arm and went back to pond making. My right hand was fine after about 3 days, and the skin grew back over the wound beautifully. I used nothing else for the healing, beyond washing the wound with N-acetyl cysteine. Excellent for wound healing too. Plus it's so acid no bug can live in it! Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Mar 25, 2013
 To Wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

Well the story continues:) Here is what has been going on with me. I am still using 500mg. a day and just finished my 3rd cycle since my baby was born. About 7 days before my period started I began feeling very tired, drained and muscle weakness along with the muscle aches and inner trembling and buzzy feeling. It was not so bad the first 5 days or so but still a big down hill from how I had been feeling. Then about 3 days before my period started I went to a stressful 2 days dance convention with my daughter and I got REALLY bad. All the same symptoms that I was dealing with but about 100% worse. I was almost non functioning. I was also having bad issues with keeping my blood sugar at all stable. I rested up the following day and was just a bit improved. I was still in a very bad state and the following day my period started. My periods have been coming every 24 days ( closer than they did before all this). Anyway Tuesday through Sunday I stayed in this same way. Dizzy. Lightheaded, Buzzy, Inner Shaking ( can not see me shaking on the outside), EXTREME fatigue, low energy, drowsy, muscle weakness and aches and very unstable moods. You get the picture:) I was confused as to what was going on with me since in my mind I was doing better after my last period and going up to 500mg. Then I read on your site that some women who have low levels of progesterone can feel worse before their period when the progesterone levels go up due to estrogen dominance from the sudden rise. Then feel worse 2-3 days before their period, which I did. So I concluded this was my case and that my periods are very much adding to my issues right now since my levels are still low. But here is something funny but I guess it also proves this theory. Today when I woke up I felt sooooooo much better!! I mean almost 100% normal and it just so happens today is my first day off my period. Today I have decided to set a timer and do 100mg of cream in the morning and right before bed and in between apply 50mg of cream every 2 hours. Before this I was just doing 100mg around 8am,10am,3pm,5pm and bedtime. I think I was getting unstable because of the odd way I was spacing the cream. Please give me your advice and input about how my cycles are affecting the way I feel and what I need to do. Or do I just go along the way I am on the 500mg and in time my levels will go up and take care of these issues. Thanks as always Wray! If you ever write a book I hope my extensive details and history will be helpful :) Julie
Mar 26, 2013
 To Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I am thinking of doing an e-book! The timing of when you felt awful fits perfectly. This statement of yours is slightly wrong..."before their period when the progesterone levels go up due to estrogen dominance from the sudden rise". Yes progesterone should peak 7 days before bleeding, but oestrogen does too. And it's this rise in oestrogen which causes all the problems. In spite of the high amount of progesterone you're using, that oestrogen spike undoes all the good. Not only that but progesterone begins withdrawing shortly after this, as the corpus luteum is regressing and stops producing it. This leaves oestrogen dominant, until that finally reaches it's lowest level, generally at the end of bleeding, when all becomes well again! Needless to say, I'm going to ask you to avoid any stressful times, however important it might be for the other person. You have to come first at the moment. And the timing of the stressful event was not the best either, 3 days before your period was due! Any extra stress is going to set you back, and make your recovery slower, please remember that. If you simply have to get involved, please consider taking the calming amino acids a few days before, about 2000mg/day taurine, 1000-2000mg/day glycine and 100-200mg/day GABA. I can't guarantee these will work or help you stay calm, but it's worth a try. I don't think you are using the progesterone incorrectly, but see how you get on with your new idea. I'd be interested to hear if it's any better. Take care Wray
Apr 08, 2013
 To Wray
by: Julie

Thanks for the reply Wray,

It really helps me to understand what is going on with me. I am not sure if I mentioned it but I have also been having some mid cycle spotting since my periods returned ( also had this after my miscarriages for a couple of months after my periods returned). This past month I started spotting about 10 days ago ( just brown). So it seems to me my levels are still very low and I need more cream. So I decided about 5 days ago to take myself up to 700mg a day. I am also eating a VERY small snack every 2 hours all day and my bigger meal at night in hopes this will help get my blood sugar more stable. So far it has been going pretty well. The day I added the 700mg I had some red blood and thought I was starting my period but I never did. Today it looks like the spotting is about to be done so hopefully that is due to more cream. I am suppose to start my period on Thursday but I am hoping that the cream will hold back any bleeding since it seems like that might give my progesterone a better chance to rise. Do you think that sounds right? I think that stress and my cycle has really put me where I am right now so I am trying to reduce stress but with 5 very loud kids that I home school and a fussy 20 month old it can be hard. I have noticed 4-6pm is a very stressful time and I am now doing 100mg at both those hours and I find that has helped. I will continue to keep you updated! I hope I am onto something with moving up to 700mg. I noticed another lady with my symptoms was told by Annette that 1000mg would be the ticket with all her symptoms. That may end up being me. Although if I did not have so much stress I might be OK with half that amount. Thanks Wray as always your is vital to me:)
Julie
Apr 10, 2013
 To Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie How you manage with 5 children, all home schooled beats me, I only had one child and that was enough! There are a few nutrients which help with bleeding, you might like to try those instead of having to go so high with the progesterone. Not that it's harmful in any way, but the cost concerns me. They are at least 2000mg/day NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), 2000mg/day taurine, at least 5000iu/day vitamin D (depending on your level) and 1000mg/day bioflavonoids. These are all explained on our Menstruation page, except for the bioflavonoids, I haven't put that info yet. These help strengthen capillaries, see here and here. The first paper has no abstract, but the second gives a resume of it. I hope the increase does stop the bleeding, it should at that level. But there's no guaranteeing it, I've come to realise the body has a mind of it's own! Let me know if it does. I'm glad you're using that amount of progesterone to help over the very stressful times, it should help with that. You could try adding MCT oil to your diet. It's an amazing oil, as it's the only one which goes directly to the liver and thence to the cells where it's burned as energy. It cannot get deposited in fat cells. So unlike sugars which we also burn as energy, it does not destabilise blood glucose. Because it supplies energy it does decrease appetite too. I use it daily on my food, cook with it too. It's an extract of coconut oil and has anti-bacterial and fungicidal properties too. Wonderful for the skin too, taken internally and applied externally. Take care Wray
Apr 11, 2013
 Wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

I am already doing 2000 of Taurine and 10,000 of Vit.D and the bioflavonoids but I will add the other. What is the oil you mentioned? I already do coconut oil daily. As for going up on the cream I did not start my period as expected today although I do see a small bit of spotting again so it might be helping to keep my bleeding from coming. Although I still have some symptoms I am way better than this time last month and I am guessing that is due to more cream. I hope to get more stable and cut back to 500 mg. But for now I am in no rush since I think this is the most progress I have seen since my cycles resumed and I do not want to keep on this merry go round with every cycle. I will keep you posted.

Julie
Apr 13, 2013
 Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie The oil is generally known as MCT oil, it's extracted from coconut oil, which actually comprises 9 different fractions. It's official name is caprylic/capric triglycerides, it's the oil we use in Natpro. Body builders use it too. Coconut oil itself is excellent, one of the best there is. Far more stable than other oils. I'm so pleased things seem to be settling down for you, as you say you have been on a merry-go-round! Don't cut down too fast please, for each small reduction stay on that a few days before reducing again. And yes, please stay in touch. Take care Wray
Apr 14, 2013
 Wray
by: Julie

Thanks Wray,

All I had was 3 days of very light spotting when my period was due and now no bleeding at all. Other than that if I can just get rid of the muscle weakness and fatigue we will be in heaven over here. I know it all got much better before so I hope I will see improvements again after another month or two on the high doses. It has only been 10 days on 700mg so now that I am over my cycle time and all that I will start gaining ground with my levels. I will keep you updated!! I have noticed that all the heart palpitations and anxiety I would get when laying down has pretty much gone so I wanted to mention that. We take our victories were we can!!
Apr 15, 2013
 Wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I'm sorry you're still having muscle weakness, as both Progesterone and Vitamin D do help that, as you know. But it's come from the backward step you took, so hopefully will soon go. As I've said before I would be dead on my feet with 5 kids and one only 20 months! Have you had a recent vitamin D test done? We've chatted about it so much and I know you're taking a good dose, but your level? Please have it checked soon. And I definitely would love it if you keep in touch, in between all those kid's demands! Take care Wray
May 10, 2013
 To Wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,

I have been on the 700mg for over a month and wonder if I am doing the right thing. After taking it to stop spotting ( which it did) a few weeks later I did start my period but it was much lighter than normal and I figure that is the progesterone but then it seemed to stop for 2 days and start right back up and although it is still light it has been going like this for 14 days. CRAZY for me...never had anything like this happen. I know I have a ton of stress so I am sure that eats up my progesterone but I wonder if you can give me any advise. I do not want to go up anymore since I am just starting to feel a touch better. So do I just stick it out or try to back off slowly to 500mg and hope my cycles will kinda pick up their regular pattern again? I am also working towards a liver cleanse. Right now I am doing a parasite cleanse and bowel cleanse and after I am done onto some liver cleases. I am also juicing but I hear good things about these things bringing total body healing. Also working on getting rid of some unforgiveness and bitterness as I hear that help with healing even just from a medical standpoint. I will get there!!!! Thanks Wray!
May 13, 2013
 Untitled 6
by: Wray

Hi Julie It is still a high amount, how about your vitamin D levels? Have you had a chance to have a test yet? It could be this is not high enough, stress does drop it. I feel once this is high you could begin to reduce the progesterone. The problem is your stress level, it's so high. I'd be bonkers now with 5 children to look after, and home schooling! Stress does upset the cycle too, so it could be nothing more than this. You are doing everything I've asked you to do, and can think of no other nutrient which you could take. Have you added the bioflavonoids? All those cleanses are so good too, particularly the parasite cleanse, so often overlooked. One of the best things for this is MCT oil, it's a potent anti-fungal and anti-bacterial. It gives us energy, it's not deposited as fat either, plus it circulates within the body, so affects pathogens there too, see here, here, here and here. The last paper is extraordinary, it says "Caprylic acid is superior to & less expensive than Diflucan, & has potential application for anti-cancer, anti-aging, anti-Alzheimer's disease, anti-Autism, anti-infection, & general circulatory improvement." It seems we should all be taking it! Please be aware of the Herxheimer reaction which is caused by die off of the pathogens, see here and here. There can be confusion between the Herx reaction and the existing symptoms, plus of course oestrogen dominance too. Progesterone too appears to increase the parasiticide activity of leukocytes, and inhibits the growth of some bacteria and pathogenic fungi. See here, here, here, here, here and here. You are right about the forgiveness and bitterness. One of the best therapies is EFT. Take care Wray
May 16, 2013
 To wray
by: Julie

Hi Wray,
After 6 months of being on 20,000 iu of vit. D I reduced it to 5,000. As of yesterday I just put it back up to 20,000. I just met a wonderful herbalist yesterday and she said she could tell by looking at me I needed more D an suggested I go back up to the 20,000. Also she confirmed what another herbalist who tested my urine and salvia last week told me which is that I am over run with Candida. Her advice was a candida cleanse which I started yesterday then move on to more parasite cleansing and then on to the liver. She feels sure by looking at me that is the root of my hormone issues. Also yesterday I received the Terminator 2 Zapper in the mail which is suppose to kill parasite, viruses, fungus,bacteria and candida. Along with that the new herbalist put me on chlorophyll and an herbal combo by Nature Sunshine to regulate my period. I am still going along with the cream at 700 mg and hopefully I can reduce when get through some more of these healing issues. My 21 month old is fully weaned as of last Saturday and I his own bed in his own room. I have not added the bioflavonoids but I was going to do that this week along with the NAC. I go to the beach for 8 days in early June. So that will be wonderful. I have ordered more cream and your sunblock as of yesterday. Thanks again and I will keep you posted.
May 18, 2013
 To wray
by: Wray

Hi Julie I'm fascinated your new found herbalist could tell you needed more vitamin D. It's best if you could have a test done, then you would know for sure. You might need more than 20,000iu per day, although this is a very good dose. Please don't forget the MCT oil I told you about, it really is so good. Plus it softens the skin too. When I first came across it the wholesaler I get it from told me I'd have skin like a baby's bum! We do have a page on Candida you could look through. I would also hope you can begin reducing the progesterone soon. I'm delighted you're trying the sunscreen, the website is hugely comprehensive, so when you have a moment (when?!), please have a good look through it. I've found one of the things people forget to do is re-apply it. They also put it on before they go outside, but vitamin D is so important, we should be in the sun 10 minutes or more, depending on skin type, before applying it. The other thing they've discovered about the sun, is it also increase nitric oxide. This is a hugely important very simple molecule which protects us from pathogens, including candida, as it's an antimicrobial. Unfortunately we cannot take anything for it as we can for vitamin D. Please keep in touch. Take care Wray

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