Cycles are every two weeks since starting Progesterone

by Andrea
(Chico, CA, USA)

Hello Wray,
I've been reading your site and posts for some time and am finally wanting to write to hopefully get some encouragement.

I have been struggling with extremely high estrogen and no progesterone since giving birth to my 3 boys, I am 36. I have every symptom in the book for estrogen dominance, headaches, muscle aches, tired, insomnia, breast soreness, heart palpitations, anxiety, the list goes on and have saliva tests to confirm.

For the last year I have been using only about 30mg of progesterone and after initially getting better I slowly got worse. This brought me back to your website and your advise. I thought I had nothing to lose.

Starting about 1.5 months ago I upped my progesterone to 300mg of topical progesterone continuously through my cycles, as when I am off I feel terrible. I started at 120mg and slowly raised it to a point that I felt my headaches easing up. My symptoms are slowly but surely getting better and I'm actually feeling quite good but the one symptom that is lingering is my cycle is now every 2 weeks. One week on, one week off. I keep holding out hope that this too will be corrected? Am I on the right course? I feel like I'm on this path where there is no end. I have perplexed my ND and the compounding pharmacy doctors. They both think I shouldn't need this much, that I have an absorption issue and are perplexed as to where all my estrogen is coming from.

I know you get hundreds of emails and I'm sorry to add to one more. I am hoping you can give me some words of encouragement or advice.

Thank you so much,
Andrea

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Dec 09, 2011
Cycles are every two weeks since starting Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Your symptoms are typical for post natal depression, the timing too. It can go on for years, mine lasted for four, and then I found myself in the early stages of Peri-menopause! PND affects 25% of women after birth, from the baby blues to post natal psychosis. Progesterone drops sharply due to the placenta coming away after the baby is born. So from levels of over 400ng/ml per day, it drops to undetectable. Oestradiol is not affected. Oestriol the pregnancy oestrogen drops of course, but it doesn't affect mood. Dr Dalton would give from 800-2400mg/day progesterone to her patients with PND and post natal psychosis, see here. The 30mg/day you were using would not have helped, and would have made matters worse. I'm pleased you increased the amount, and that you are using it continuously. It's easy enough to get the cycle regular once you feel stable, we have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Oestrogen is not only made by the ovaries, but by the fat cells too. But as oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells, a vicious cycle can start. It's probably not so much where is all the oestrogen coming from, but where is all the progesterone going. It plays so many important roles, not least in depression, anxiety, heart palpitations, headaches/migraines, mood and more. We've found from Saliva Tests we run that the P/E2 ratio should be 600:1 and over to feel well. Using progesterone continuously can upset the cycle, it's a bore but nothing to worry about. I have found 400-600mg/day stops bleeding, you could try this. Or just sit it out. I'm so pleased it's helped you though, and you had the courage to go against the grain and follow my advice. It does help if enough is used. The 20-40mg/day normally recommended only raises serum levels to 1-2ng/ml, see here. Whereas in a normal luteal phase the body produces 5-20ng/ml. As this does nothing for many woman, ie why would they get symptoms if it was sufficient, a high amount really is necessary. The ratio of P:E2 should always be looked at, excess oestrogen to progesterone causes all manner of problems.
Continued below. Take care Wray

Dec 09, 2011
Cycles are every two weeks since starting Progesterone Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Although you live in California with plenty of sun, please have a vitamin D test done. This is the most important nutrient for the body, a lack causing anxiety/depression amongst so many things, plus it reduces the benefits of progesterone. It's vital for the growth of the foetus, and for the growing child if breastfeeding, as this takes precedence over the mother, your level could well be low. For more info on levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Taurine is also vital for the growth of the foetus, and particularly after birth if breast feeding, see here, here and here. If your level is low it will only add to the anxiety, it's a wonderfully calming amino acid, see here and here. I do get many queries, I love answering them, so don't hesitate to contact me if you need to! Take care Wray

Dec 10, 2011
Thank you
by: Anonymous

Wray,
Thank you for writing back so quick. I have to say this is one of the most active blog sites I have ever seen. Look at all these people struggling to find help and what a wonderful support tool.

Postpartum Depression, I never even considered that as I've never been depressed but certainly doesn't have to affect only depression. My last child was born 3 years ago, but yet I still feel like I'm trying to recover. Maybe that's why? The estrogen and fat cell could also be a source of my estrogen although part of my perplexing my ND is that I'm 6 feet and 145 pounds. I certainly don't handle stress well and I wonder how much of my progesterone is being spent up with cortisol and estrogen.

I did also get my vitamin D tested per your advice and came in at 79, a result of supplementing with 5000. I was advised to lower my D to 2000 as the 79 was a bit high but reading your comments it sounds like they're where they should be. I will look into Taurine as well.

So it looks like my cycles may not regulate on their own until I start following the ovulation pattern so that's good to know. I imagine once I start following my cycle that will also take some time to adjust. Patience, patience. Could I say use 120 for the first half and 300 for the second half initially and still find some regulation? I'm a bit nervous with how sick I was to go cold turkey until ovulation.

What I'm doing around here is not the norm and I am even pushing my ND to think outside the box. I feel like a guinea pig but also if I can help shed some light into this kind of treatment will help other women in similar circumstances being treated by my dr's.

I will write in and keep you posted on how things go just for curiosities sake. Thank you very much.

Dec 11, 2011
Thank you
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Bless you for the kind words. It's most important to me that people can make their own decisions based on the studies done, and not take my word for it. Dr Dalton has written an excellent book on PND, see here. One of the things she stresses is depression is not always found. In fact it's not a very good term! I had it and I wouldn't have said I was 'depressed', but I did have a host of symptoms which she outlines in the book. Some of which were extreme exhaustion, muscle weakness, so bad some days I could barely walk, anger to the point of rage, hungry all the time and more! It took me four years to recover, but then I had no idea about progesterone and how it drops precipitously after birth. Serotonin drops too which can bring on Anxiety. So I don't think it's too much oestrogen in your case, you're evidently not fat! But a lack of progesterone making your ratio skewed, and possibly the neurotransmitters which help mood and wellbeing. And you're right, stress depletes progesterone. The adrenals make it in the cortex, they then convert into cortisol. But if stressed the adrenals can rob other sources, notably the ovaries, this then upsets the reproductive cycle. In fact stress can stop ovulation, which results in no progesterone being made, and it can cause miscarriages. I had five because of this. I'm so pleased you've been taking so much vitamin D, and your level is perfect. Toxicity is only reached when levels get to 200ng/ml, see here. It does require patience! You could try your idea of using 120ml/day in the first half, increasing to 300ml/day in the second half. See how you get on, if there's any sign of symptoms coming back on the lower amount, increase until you feel good again. Alternatively you could try 1 cycle of 400mg/day, then at the end drop the amount to 120mg/day. The sharp drop should cause bleeding, and the 400mg/day might prevent the second bleed you get. If you find the drop too sharp and symptoms come back, you'll have to increase till you feel better. It is trial and error. At this stage don't attempt to use it following your cycle, it's not worth it. I'm delighted you're experimenting, and making your ND think outside the box. Not only will it help other women in his practice, but it also helps women who come to this site to take courage from your experiences. But above all it helps me to understand the complexities and to spread the word. So please do let me know how you get on. Take care Wray



Dec 11, 2011
Good Plan
by: Anonymous

Wray,
Great advice! I've upped my dose to 400mg, my ND's suggestion as well, and we'll see how that goes. As usual I experience a few days of estrogen symptoms but those seem to be receding. Now I'm armed with a plan so here we go. Coincidentally I just finished up testing for my Neuro levels and will get those results back in a couple of weeks. I am just not able to handle much stress. Maybe that will give me some clues. In the mean time I'm eating really good, lots of raw, organic food, upping my magnesium and ordered a bottle of taurine. Now to make sure I'm getting good sleep. Hard with little boys but I love them. Thanks again and I will be back.
Andrea

Dec 12, 2011
Good Plan
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I'm so delighted you've opted for the 400mg/day and in fact your ND suggested it too. I have found that high amount usually prevents major oestrogen dominance symptoms occurring, or they go very quickly. I think it's understandable you can't handle much stress, you don't have enough of the neurotransmitters which help, progesterone too. Would be interested to hear what the levels are. Although I gave you the page on anxiety, and suggested taurine, I should have emphasised trying tyrosine, apologies! You could call this the anti-stress amino acid, it drops sharply when stressed. It's the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine, and the stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. It's also the precursor to the two thyroid hormones T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine), plus melanin, the pigment found in hair and skin. It's part of the enkephalin peptide involved in regulating and reducing pain, and increasing pleasure. Lack of protein and stress lower tyrosine levels, with a subsequent reduction in dopamine and noradrenaline. A drop in dopamine increases levels of prolactin, the hormone of lactogenesis, but also an inflammatory hormone. Dopamine is essential for a normal sexual response, increased prolactin causes a drop in libido. Tyrosine is essential for any stressful situation, cold, fatigue, emotional trauma, prolonged work, sleep deprivation, it improves memory, cognition and physical performance. Acute, uncontrollable stress depletes noradrenaline, leading to depression and a rise in corticosterone, tyrosine reverses this. The rate limiting step in dopamine synthesis is the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase. Insufficient levels of vitamin D inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase, resulting in a disturbance in the dopamine pathway. This is essential for motivation and vitality, levels rise when rewarded, resulting in feelings of pleasure. If you do try it, please start low on about 500mg/day and work up. There's more info on the Anxiety page. Take care Wray

Dec 12, 2011
Levels
by: Anonymous

Wray,
I will let you know what my neuro results are.

For pure curiosities sake here are my estradoil/progesterone saliva levels.

Taken 1.5 years after birth of third son:
Estradoil 3.6 (range 1.3-3.3 pg/ml)
Progesterone 16 (range 75-270 pg/ml)
Pg/E2 ratio: 5

Taken again after taking 30mg of topical progesterone:
Estradoil 4.2 (range 1.3-3.3 pg/ml)
Progesterone 479 (range 200-3000 pg/ml)
Pg/E2 ratio: 114

I wasn't feeling good on the 30mg of progesterone and you can probably see why. Still not a good Pg/E2 ratio. You can see my high estrogen, even with low body fat and clear uterus/ovary ultrasound.

What are some causes to high estrogen that you've come across? Stress, neuro function, some people just naturally run high?

Andrea

Dec 13, 2011
Levels
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Thanks for this. I do agree, no wonder you didn't feel right with a ratio of only 5:1! Even the 114:1 is low, everything makes sense to me. The 30mg progesterone is enough to stimulate oestrogen, so I feel this is a possible explanation for the rise. Stress of course drops progesterone levels, which again allows oestrogen to rise. The hormones and neuros are so intimately linked, you can't look at one without looking at the other. Progesterone is extremely active in the brain, protecting neurons from damage, re-myelinating nerves, calming the brain from the excitatory neurotransmitters and more. It seems yours is working overtime with the stress. It's also possible you have begun having anovulatory cycles. These normally start from about age 35, and increase in frequency through Peri-menopause, until the ovaries stop producing viable eggs at Menopause, when ovarian production of progesterone and oestrogen stops. But each cycle where anovulation occurs, no progesterone is produced, so this allows oestrogen to rise. And of course phytoestrogens in food affect the level too. Although they are far weaker than oestrogen, they still have an oestrogenic effect. We can't avoid them, but the main culprits are the grains and legumes. There are now over 100 oestrogen mimics in the environment, we can't escape those either. See Our Stolen Future for more info. Unfortunately if oestrogen rises for whatever reason, it blocks progesterone production, see here. Cows fed BGH (bovine growth hormone) have an increased level of IGH-1 in their milk, see here and here. And increase in IGF-1 increases aromatase, and with it an increase in oestrogen, see here. It never ends! Take care Wray


Dec 30, 2011
Lowering Progesterone
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
So, I've been on 300-400mg of Progesterone for 3 months now using continuously for those months and my estrogen symptoms were non existence. (heart palpitations, hot flashes, anxiety, nausea, IBS, headaches, acne, insomnia) My cycles have continued to be short even upping to 400mg with the longest being at 19 days. I thought I would try following my cycle but was a bit cautious to go cold turkey as I was so sick before so only lowered the progesterone to 200mg during period and within days I began getting headaches, acne, nausea, and painful breasts. Am I not quite ready and need to give it more time or should I go cold turkey and my body would respond better than just lowering it.
Thank you,
Andrea

Jan 08, 2012
Update
by: Andrea

So, I am still struggling with estrogen symptoms since lowering my dose from 420 to 240mg during my period. It didn't go so well. I am finding the fluctuation to be hard to handle and am noticing estrogen symptoms returning. Do you find that as well? I seem to do better on a steady dose. Also, I didn't go back up to the 420 I ended at a couple of weeks ago I went to 360mg since I was doing well on the 300mg previously. My headaches, sore breasts, and nausea have been awful. I would think I would be fine on this dose but I"m wondering if because I bumped up to the 420mg previously it somehow affected me? Maybe I lowered it too much too fast and those are the affects I'm feeling? Does this sound familiar and if I stick out the 360mg it should work itself back out again? Man what a trip this is. Thank you Wray

Jan 14, 2012
Update
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I seem to have missed your post of the 30th Dec, I'm so sorry, not sure why. I'm delighted the higher amount helped you, but would have hoped by now you could reduce. Evidently not. Reducing progesterone sharply, or increasing it to a higher amount quickly will have the same effect….oestrogen dominance. Increasing quickly can cause an unpleasant time, but if enough is used, it usually passes quickly too, but in some cases much more is needed. There's simply no way of telling why, short of a massive saliva, blood, hair and urine analysis of everything. There are so many toxins in our food, air and water now, not to mention the skin care we use, they upset our balance unknowingly. There's an excellent book that's recently been published which goes into great depth on all the possible physical reasons for anxiety. You might consider reading it, it's called 'Anxiety: Hidden Causes' by Sharon Heller, PhD. There seems to be something else at play in you, but what? For instance high copper causes anxiety, depression and more, see here and here. Excess copper depresses zinc levels, excess oestrogen depresses zinc, increases copper. Excess calcium, low magnesium causes anxiety/depression, see here. It is a 'trip', but what a trip! The Alternative Mental Health site I've given above is an excellent resource, but it doesn't seem to be working today. Two other sites you could visit are the Pfeiffer Treatment Center and Nutritional Healing. Take care Wray



Jan 15, 2012
Thank you
by: Andrea

OK, thank you. So it sounds like I need to stick out this dose for a bit longer before trying to follow my cycles. Next time I may try lowering to nothing during my period and see how that goes. I wonder if the lower dose of progesterone still causes an increase in estrogen and going to nothing I may do better. It sounds like you have woman who use the high dose to follow their cycle though and they do fine. I probably need to find a comfortable level or progesterone and stay on that for a bit instead of rushing to follow my cycles. I only feel rushed as my cycles are 13-17 days apart since doing this. This last one I got a whole 5 days off before I started my cycle again. Nice.

I agree with the anxiety and I will look into that book. My neuro test has not come back yet as I had to repeat it but will post out of curiosity. Although I notice a strong pattern with it increasing around my cycles so there is a hormonal influence in there somewhere.

Jan 17, 2012
Thank you
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I'm glad you're willing to experiment, it is difficult knowing what is the best route. But if symptoms are used as a guide, it takes out much of the guess work. I've found amounts of 20-40mg/day, even 60mg/day progesterone stimulates oestrogen, so it would be better to go down to nothing, than dropping down to this amount. It is a puzzle your cycle continues to be so short, I would have thought by now it would have become longer. But one can never tell, we are all so different! Please do think about reading that book, and looking through those 3 sites I gave you. The Alternative Mental Health site is so excellent, but it still seems to be unable to load. I've just received their latest newsletter too, so it's most strange. It's interesting you've noticed a pattern in the anxiety, definitely hormone related. Try using more progesterone in those last few days, I know you are already using a lot, but a bit more might just do the trick. Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2012
Estrogen
by: Andrea

From what I've read on your site, progesterone upsets the cycle especially if you use it continuously and you can't really expect to regulate your cycle until you can start using progesterone only during the last half of the cycle. Am I correct in my understanding? I can't take a break from progesterone to begin regulating my cycle until I make progesterone the dominant hormone. If I try to take a break and symptoms come rushing back and linger for a month then that's a good indicator I have not yet achieved balance. Am I correct? Considering my estrogen symptoms came back so quickly I assume it's still to early and since they still seem to be lingering, although slowly getting better, I assume I'm still in estrogen dominance despite 360mg of progesterone and so even using continuously my cycles remain short as it's also a sign of estrogen dominance? This is what I think I understand from reading your site and what I'm holding out hope on. Almost 4 months in. This is going to work right. I know you can't answer that but you see a lot of sick women that find wellness with this therapy.

Jan 19, 2012
Estrogen
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Yes it can upset it. If used following a cycle, particularly in the early stages of use, it makes bleeding earlier or later than normal. Although I have found it generally makes the cycle shorter, rather than longer. I've found it does settle down back into it's normal rhythm after a few cycles. Unless a high amount is used, in which case it can actually stop bleeding. If used continuously the same applies. I've found some women continue to get a regular cycle, in others bleeding comes and goes when it wants and never at the expected time! So it's only when following a cycle with the supplemental progesterone, that they will regulate. But this will also take time to settle down. Normally adverse symptoms occur very quickly after stopping progesterone if oestrogen is still dominant. They did with me too, and I couldn't tolerate them, having lived with them for about 8 years prior to finding progesterone. Even though my cycle was regular, I decided to use it continuously and haven't stopped. But I was older than you are now when I made that decision, I was in the last stages of Peri-menopause. There's no question it has helped thousands of women, men too, to become well again. But the time line is impossible to tell, some respond very quickly, others can take a year. Stress plays the biggest role in this. I do hope nutrients like the taurine, vitamin D etc will also help you with that. I'm not sure if I gave you the results of Saliva Tests we run. We've found from this the ratio of P:E2 should be 600:1 and over to feel well. Take care Wray

Jan 28, 2012
Lowering Progesterone
by: Andrea

Hi Wray,
So I tried to stick out the 360mg and my estrogen symptoms were just terrible (headaches, nausea, bleeding) so I went back up to the 420mg of cream which was the highest I had been on previously. Within days I was feeling much better. The last two cycles my periods were lasting 8 days and I only got a 2 day break in between. I've got to get my cycles longer I can't do this anymore. I think maybe I had decreased so quickly my body was not happy. I still want to come down off the 420mg as I was doing fine on the 300mg and would like to get even lower eventually.

I've been digging around on your site on how to lower your progesterone and you mention coming down slowly over the course of weeks. What does that look like? How much should I decrease and how often?

I am doing a repeat of my hormones on Sunday since it's been a year. Hopefully give us a clue as to what is going on and why I'm having such a hard time. My ND thinks maybe I am on so much progesterone that it's upset the balance too much to the progesterone side.

Jan 29, 2012
Lowering Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I'm so sorry to hear you're still struggling. But pleased to hear that the progesterone is still helping, albeit at a higher amount. If, as your ND says, 'it's upset the balance too much to the progesterone side', I don't think you would get oestrogen dominance when lowering it. It's not as if you were getting new symptoms, but the same ones you were before using progesterone. If you do have saliva tests done, your progesterone might show very high. Please read this page here for an explanation. I do know 600mg/day stops bleeding, well it does in women who've tried it! You could try this too, then when you feel ready begin reducing. And to answer your question about this, I suggest no more than 16mg per reduction. It's best to stay on the reduced amount for a few days before reducing further. I have looked through the entire page, but can't see what strength of cream the ND has given you, so can't advise on how much cream you would need to do this. But I'm sure you can work it out, as you have done so before. Have you tried any of the nutrients given on our Anxiety page? I see I've given you the link to the Pfeiffer Treatment Center. They do comprehensive testing on urine, blood, saliva, and hair to find out what's going on. It might be worth you or your ND contacting them. There's something still wrong with the Alternative Mental Health site, a great pity, as it's a wonderful resource. You might like to see these comments form women who've used high amounts, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Take care Wray

Jan 29, 2012
Man you are fast
by: Andrea

Wray,
How to you respond to all these people so quickly?

Anyway, good point about lowering progesterone and symptoms returning being a sign I am not saturated. I have to agree. I read all the links you gave me and one mentioned it can take a year until you reach saturation for some people. I've been messing with my doses too early I think and it's been keeping me in estrogen mode longer than I should.

I'm hesitant to bump up my dose anymore because once I do I seem to get stuck and have a hard time coming down. I was feeling good on 300mg but once I bumped up to 420mg to experiment I'm having a hard time getting it back down.

After trying to stick out the 360 for a couple of weeks I finally went up to 420 where I felt better but after feeling better for only a few days I then began to try to decrease it again. I am on 60mg per gram pump, using 3-4 pumps 2x/day. My headaches are returning. So, I am now going to go back up and stay there for a week or two and try again going slowly as you suggest.

Do you ever have people who are on 420 who only use it for the last half of their cycle. I'd like to try to take a few days break when my period starts but wonder if the higher dose to nothing will be a bit dramatic of a change. Maybe I need to just try to get down to the 200-300 range before I do that.

Just anxious to not be bleeding all the time and this only happens when I start taking the high doses of progesterone. This happened when I got up to 80mg a year ago but only stuck it out a month before trying the progesterone pill.

As for the supplements on anxiety I am on taurine, magnesium, GABA, theanine and have not yet tried tyrosine. These do seem to help and take the edge off, but I am noticing my anxiety related hugely to my cycles. When I feel good my anxiety is none, when I get my estrogen symptoms (headaches, nausea, cold, insomnia, breast soreness, aches, heart palps) I notice my anxiety also get bad.

This is all very helpful. Keeps my courage up to keep sticking this out. Really I have no option because I literally can't live without progesterone so now it's a matter of finding balance. It's in there somewhere. Where the heck is it? ha ha

Jan 29, 2012
Man you are fast
by: Wray

Hi Andrea You did give me a chuckle! I often don't respond quickly, particularly if I travel. But I'm not at the moment, and I think being a weekend it did help, do problems reduce then?! I do agree, it's so important to become stable first, before attempting to change the amount you use. Please stay for far longer than a week or two, 2-3 months would be better! It's a pity you have a 60mg pump, can you press it very gently to get out no more than 15mg? I say 15mg as it's 1/4 of 60. I was concerned about the bleeding pattern you seem to be in, so if it doesn't resolve, try the 600mg, it might put paid to it. And then when you feel stable, reduce very, very slowly. And as I said, stay on that reduction a few days to adjust to it. This could take months, but in the long run worth it. I've found once people have increased their progesterone substantially, they don't normally have to stay on 420mg during the luteal phase. Most seem to settle somewhere between the 100-200mg/day I recommend. I still use about 170mg/day, every day too. Please only try stopping the progesterone once you feel really stable! I'm worried you are trying to reduce too much and too quickly. It's evident it's progesterone you need, as your symptoms become worse following your cycle. Do try the tyrosine, it drops when stressed/anxious. But please follow the advise on our anxiety page, there's no point in using more than you need, as symptoms can come back. I'm sure you will find balance, but please, please take your time about it! Take care Wray

Feb 22, 2012
Update
by: Andrea

Hi Wray,
I told you I would check in regarding some of my testing.

I had a urine neuro test done and it showed I had low normal serotonin and high Gaba. It also showed very low Dopamine.

I also had a repeat hormone saliva test and as usual cortisol is high in the morning and fizzles out by evening. My estrogen has come down and of course being on 420 topical progesterone my progesterone was through the roof. My Pg/E2 ratio is 9571/1.

Strange to see such high progesterone but yet still have estrogen symptoms. I stuck with the 420mg of cream without messing around with it, upping or lowering it, and last month I finally had a 22 day cycle. What a relief. I'm hoping that pattern will remain. I probably would have had that happen much sooner had I not been upping and lowering it with my cycle and just stuck with one consistent dose. I still have my headaches and anxiety start up with the onset of my period. Considering all the symptoms I was having I'm down to two so not too bad. Most definitely follows my cycle and is hormone related.

I will continue to use 420 every day until I feel like my symptoms are good for a while. Not quite there yet. It's safe to use every day at this dose for this long I believe? I am going on 6 months of using every day now. I'm feeling so much better. Whew!

Feb 23, 2012
Update
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Bless you for letting me know how you're doing! And yes it is safe to use that much for a long time. So delighted your cycle has finally lengthened and that you're feeling so much better. Thank you for sticking it out! The high GABA is understandable as you were taking it, but not taking the tryptophan, precursor to serotonin. Most interesting your dopamine is very low, I did ask you to try the tyrosine, you obviously need it badly. This is probably the reason for your anxiety. Did they check prolactin levels, as this rises when dopamine drops. Although a non-essential amino acid, tyrosine is one of the most important. It's the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine, and the stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. It's also the precursor to the two thyroid hormones T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine), plus melanin, the pigment found in hair and skin. It's part of the enkephalin peptide involved in regulating and reducing pain, and increasing pleasure. Lack of protein and stress lower tyrosine levels, with a subsequent reduction in dopamine. A drop in dopamine increases levels of prolactin, the hormone of lactogenesis, but also an inflammatory hormone. Dopamine is essential for a normal sexual response, increased prolactin causes a drop in libido. Tyrosine is essential for any stressful situation, cold, fatigue, emotional trauma, prolonged work, sleep deprivation, it improves memory, cognition and physical performance. Please consider taking some! Take care Wray

Feb 24, 2012
Tyrosine
by: Andrea

Wray,
Ha you were right then about wanting me to try Tyrosine. I've been hesitating starting tyrosine until I knew more about my dopamine as upping dopamine without having good levels of serotonin can make you feel worse or having already high dopamine.

I have started taking 5-HTP to help up my serotonin and I have started a thyroid support that also has 500mg of tyrosine in it. My Naturo feels confident that if we can address some of my low neuro levels then it will also affect how my body makes progesterone and the levels I need to feel better.

Thanks for all your advice. I will check in some time later to give you an update out of curiosities sake.

Andrea

Feb 25, 2012
Tyrosine
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Well I suspected it because of your symptoms! I'm pleased you're taking some, it might not be enough, you'll have to play it by ear again. Can't remember if I gave you our page on Natural Antidepressants, as it explains how to take it and symptoms to watch for. Low serotonin and dopamine do play havoc with us. Progesterone does help raise them, as it's a natural mono amine oxidase inhibitor. Obviously some of the progesterone was being used to do this, which takes it away from other systems it's involved in. So once they are up I feel sure you can begin reducing the amount of progesterone you're using. I would love feedback, it's been such an interesting journey following you. Take care Wray

Aug 18, 2012
Update
by: Andrea

I thought I'd update you on how I'm doing. I have been feeling sooooo good. I continue to use 400mg of cream daily through out the month, without taking breaks. I still seem to be taking just enough that it keeps me feeling well but I don't have a lot of reserves. We moved recently and had a death in the family and lack of sleep contribute quickly and easily to estrogen symptoms. Taking me months to slowly recoup. Because I don't seem to have much of a reserve I haven't wanted to try dropping my dose or cycling with my period. I haven't wanted to go higher either as I have a realy hard time coming down. I understand this level is safe but how are the long term affects? I didn't plan on still being on such a hight dose but still hold out hope that eventually my reserve will get higher. Thank you for you time and help with all these women. We sure appreciate it.
Andrea

Aug 21, 2012
Update
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I'm delighted you're feeling soooo good! It is a high amount you're using, but not in any way dangerous. Please remember Dr Dalton would give far higher amounts to her patients, healing does take time too, see here Besides which you have just been through a two major traumatic events, this is bound to drop your levels. Your vitamin D will drop too, I do hope you're still taking it, and enough. Have you considered taking any of the nutrients listed on our Anxiety page. I'm sure we've discussed it before, but I loose track of what I've said! I hope with the move out of the way, and recovering from the death, you will gradually get some balance into your life, and will then be able to reduce slowly. Please don't forget to do this very slowly too, about 16mg or 1/2 ml of cream per reduction. Bless you for the kind words. There are too many of us suffering needlessly, and having been through the mill myself, it's now a passion of mine to help those who are. Take care Wray

Nov 16, 2012
Upping Progesterone
by: Andrea

Hi Wray,
Well I tried lowering my 420mg dose but it was over a holiday which probably wasn't good timing and I had a period that wouldn't stop. Finally after a month of waiting for things to settle down again I upped to 500mg. It stopped within a day. Feeling so much better. I just don't seem to be able to lower my dose. I'm stuck up here. I have to use the cream non stop or I get terribly sick with everyone symptom in the book. Why do I need so much cream? Have you seen much research on how people metabolize the cream and why people like me have to take such high doses to function. I have great vit D levels at 79. My Naturo is having me take a special Vit B Complex with Phosphorylated forms which are supposed to be absorbed better. Suspecting maybe I'm not converting some of these properly and these might help. There's a needle in this haystack somewhere just having a hard time finding it.

Nov 17, 2012
Upping Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I wish I had an answer for you, but I don't. There are many women having to use high amounts to keep sane, I can only assume they all have high stress levels. But there are so many compounding factors too. Large meals drop progesterone levels, so does sugar in any form. But a drop in progesterone means SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) also drops. This allows testosterone to rise. Testosterone becomes inactive when bound to SHBG, progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone. SHBG drops if sugars are eaten, even those found in all grains, legumes, dairy and sweet starchy fruits and vegetables. Fructose, sucrose and glucose, reduce SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. Thereby allowing testosterone to rise. It's best to avoid all the foods and sugars mentioned. Wine and beers contain carbs, so it's best to avoid those too. High testosterone can cause severe PMS symptoms, plus it causes Insulin Resistance, increases visceral fat, and increases the risk for heart disease and cancer. I know you had a test done for your oestrogen and progesterone levels, but did they test for testosterone? I know you are using a great deal of progesterone, which does lower it. But if you are also eating sugars of any kind, it would be counter productive. Dark days, winter, a lack of vitamin D (which you haven't got), a high level of phytoestrogens in the diet, all these contribute to lowering progesterone. These sites give lists of the various foods which contain phytoestrogens, see here, here and here. These papers here and here, on infertility in sheep, show how a high level of phytoestrogens in food can affect the reproductive organs. And have you considered the nutrients listed on the Anxiety page. I'm sure I've asked all these questions before, but I can't remember, without reading the entire page again, it's very long! When you reduce the progesterone, please do it by no more than about 20mg/day, staying on that amount for a few days before reducing again. Take care Wray

Nov 17, 2012
Re: Upping Progesterone
by: Andrea

Wray,
It is long. Ha ha. Sorry. THank you for writing so quickly. Just wondering if you were finding anything new I hadn't tried yet. I did have my testosterone tested and DHEA and cortisol. Testosterone is normal. My cortisol is high in am and pooping at by evening so that's certainly playing a factor. I know stress is certainly a huge factor with my current life style and personality. It may be I have to stay at this level for a long time until my life settles down. I am a stay at home Mom with 3 young boys and homeschool. ha ha. I don't make things easy on me. I am aware of those foods. I get only grassfed beef and organic chicken. I don't eat any soy. I don't eat a lot of sugar and try to eat paleo or gluten less and protein with each meal. But I can always be better and this is a good reminder. I am taking much of the anxiety regimen and it does help but nothing like progesterone helps. It may too that even at 400mg I was just hanging on the edge and maybe at 500mg it will be enough to really get me out of estrogen dominance so I can heal and then reduce. Thank you, Wray. It's so comforting to have this support.

Nov 18, 2012
Re: Upping Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Yes it is long, but it was not a condemnatory comment! I love it when I get feedback from people, even if I can't help them or only a little. After 15 years I'm still learning, still amazed at what I hear or find out. And I haven't thought of anything new for you! Although I am interested you say you are pooping by evening. Is this late afternoon, do you have a second wind later on at say 9 or 10pm? If this is the case it shows your adrenals are exhausted, which actually doesn't surprise me, with 3 boys and home schooling! And if it's so please add more salt to your diet, the adrenals need sodium to function normally. Or have I already asked you to try it, oh dear! Very pleased you eat those foods, I also try eating paleo too. So I'm running out of ideas. I don't know if reading through our page on Stress would help, or give you ideas? And please read the 'Stress Management is no joke...' at the end of our other page on Stress Control. It's very clever! If I come across anything I will contact you. And bless you for the kind words! Take care Wray

Nov 18, 2012
Adrenals
by: Andrea

I will read those pages about stress. You nailed it. I am exhausted and could sleep by 7-8p but I stay up and by 9p get a second wind and then end up staying up too late at least 11p. I haven't added more salt so I will do that. I try to not to eat a lot of processed food so I probably don't have a lot of salt in my diet. I have a feeling my adrenals are sapping all my progesterone. I know what I need to do. Go to bed early. Now to do it. Thank you dear lady. Wonderful website. Your hard work is so appreciated!

Nov 19, 2012
Adrenals
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Bless you! Let me know if the salt idea helps at all, such a simple thing, but overlooked. In fact we are always advised to cut back on salt, as it increases blood pressure. What happens if sodium drops too low, the hormone aldosterone kicks in conserve the sodium. But it does this by increasing water content, i.e. the tissues become swollen with water, so BP goes up. It's not more water we need, just the sodium. Progesterone inhibits aldosterone, and does spare sodium too, one reason progesterone is such an excellent diuretic. There's more info about this on our Traumatic Brain Injury page. If there's sufficient sodium in the diet, aldosterone remains quiescent. This is an excellent article to read here. Take care Wray

Jan 25, 2013
NAC and Update
by: Andrea

Hi Wray,
I thought I would check in. I have made more of an effort to up my salt. I haven't noticed a big difference but that may just not be root to my problem, not that it can't help.

I continue to have set backs with just about every trip I take which is every few months. I did end up increasing progesterone to 500mg in October after a trip as my period would not stop. It stopped in a day. I have felt sooooo good!

Then I took a trip again a few weeks ago and here again I get a period that won't stop. (my headaches, sore breast, anxiety all return) I don't want to up my dose as I'm already on 500mg and it seems that once I go up I can't come back down but it works... sigh. Hoping to see if things settle down if I give it time before upping.

I've been on your site reading old posts and kept seeing you mention NAC and Taurine. Well, taking my first doses of NAC and Taurine today with my goal coming in around your 2000mg mark. I will let you know how I fare. I really hope this is key.

I function at such a high stress level (not by choice) and seem to just suck up all my progesterone.

Thank you,
Andrea

Jan 27, 2013
NAC and Update
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I've just looked back over some of your queries, can't believe you're still struggling after a year. But if you have high stress levels, that would certainly account for it. You seem to have tried all the nutrients I suggest on the anxiety page, did you find the tyrosine helped at all? It is so essential for Stress, as levels plummet. It's most interesting to me that the stress of travel causes you to bleed. You might like to read Annie's page here, as exactly the same occurred with her. Some of the additional things she added might help you. Have you considered increasing the progesterone to 500mg/day about a week before you travel, while you're travelling, and a few days after you're back home. Then slowly reduce back to the 400mg/day, until you travel again. I'm delighted you're trying the NAC and taurine, I know we mentioned taurine before, but not the NAC. I can't imagine why, maybe I didn't realise you had the bleeding problems. Taurine is also very calming too, also the most important amino acid for the heart, it calms that too. Stress drops levels of all the major amino acids, I wonder if this is your problem. Continued below

Jan 27, 2013
NAC and Update
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I've collected all the papers I have on this, quite a mouthful, I don't expect you to read all of them, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. The ones on tyrosine are very interesting, let me know if it helped. Lack of glutamine might account for your weight to height ratio, as this causes muscle depletion. Another thing you could consider is EFT, it's such an amazing therapy, it might help you get a handle on the stress. There's a short video about it on our stress page, link above. Please keep in touch. Take care Wray

Jan 28, 2013
Doing it all
by: Andrea

Wray,
OK, thank you for those reminders. I purchased NAC, Taurine, Tyosine as well as Glutamine and trying it all. Can you tell I'm desperate. ha ha

I also upped my progesterone to 600mg just now. I can't take the bleeding anymore. I'm so tired.

There's a reason why my stress is just sucking all my progesterone. My body is not getting something during stress that it needs for other functions robbing my progeterone leaving me with nothing left for my cycle. That will be what I'm gong to explore. Maybe you are right on with the Amino Acids.

What is depleted during stress that would rob my progesterone and I need to look into supporting that so my body doesn't need so much progesterone?

It's been a long year but in between the travel and moving I actually have months of feeling really good. There is certainly a pattern here that I need help putting together a plan for me to help with this added stress so I don't need so much progesterone. Will be looking into the Amino Acid idea. Thank you,
Andrea

Jan 29, 2013
Doing it all
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Well the obvious thing that's depleted is of course progesterone! And that's depleted because the adrenals are robbing all other sources, to convert into cortisol. They normally make it themselves, but if stressed they can't keep up, so progesterone levels drop. The reproductive cycle is badly affected, as stress can even stop ovulation, which doesn't help at all. The aminos are depleted too, which is why I suggested taking those. Vitamin D drops, and when that drops it reduces the benefits of progesterone, see here, here and here. Do you know what your level is now, it is winter so levels drop anyway, unless you're taking lots. And of course tyrosine. Although a non-essential amino acid, tyrosine is one of the most important. It's the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine, and the stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. It's also the precursor to the two thyroid hormones T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine), plus melanin, the pigment found in hair and skin. It's part of the enkephalin peptide involved in regulating and reducing pain, and increasing pleasure. Lack of protein and stress lower tyrosine levels, with a subsequent reduction in dopamine and noradrenaline. A drop in dopamine increases levels of Prolactin, the hormone of lactogenesis, but also an inflammatory hormone. Dopamine is essential for a normal sexual response, increased prolactin causes a drop in libido. Tyrosine is essential for any stressful situation, cold, fatigue, emotional trauma, prolonged work, sleep deprivation, it improves memory, cognition and physical performance. Acute, uncontrollable stress depletes dopamine and noradrenaline, leading to depression and a rise in corticosterone, tyrosine reverses this. The rate limiting step in dopamine synthesis is the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase. Insufficient levels of vitamin D inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase, resulting in a disturbance in the dopamine pathway. This is essential for motivation and vitality. I'm hoping the tyrosine might do the trick. You could add iodine, as this, combined with tyrosine, is needed to make T3 and T4, so your thyroid could be suffering too with all the stress. Tiredness can be a result of a tired thyroid! Let me know your vitamin D level please. Take care Wray

Feb 19, 2013
Bleeding won't stop
by: Andrea

Hi Wray,
I feel bad writing as you're so busy but I so appreciate your ideas and experience.

Since mid January I had an 18 day period with one week off and now I"m on day 13 of a period again. Oh boy. In the past when I up my progesterone I notice a difference within a day but not this time for some reason. My periods are light and seem to have break through bleeding in am that slows to nothing by evening. Every day that is the pattern is just won't stop.

I am on 600mg of progesterone cream a day continuous
2000mg NAC
1200mg Taurine
1000mg Tyrosine
5000 D3

I just had my thyroid checked as it was low. 4.6 so I've upped my thyroid medication to get that back down in the 2's. That was probably why I was so exhausted. Do you think even though I'm on such high amounts of Progesterone that with my thyroid so low (for me) it would affect my cycles? Hoping maybe this is what's going on and curious your experience with thyroid and progesterone levels.

I'm ready to get on the pill and not have a period for a year. What do you think I should do? Give it more time for things to settle down? I"m not anemic yet. Didn't get my D checked but I know in the past at 5000 I should get up in the 70's. I was only taking that every other day until your reminder. I know that can take a month of so to raise that as well.

Sorry for another novel. My poor husband.

Thank you dear Wray,
Andrea

Feb 21, 2013
Bleeding won't stop
by: Wray

Hi Andrea You really mustn't worry about writing to me, that's what I'm here for! Please would you look through Annie's comments, as she had bleeding problems. I think she went up to 3000mg/day NAC, plus found a few other things which helped her, see here. It wouldn't harm to take higher doses of taurine either. It's not found in vegetable protein, only meat, eggs, fish etc. The body can convert it from cysteine, but as this is such an important amino, often there's not sufficient for the conversion. I know you are taking it, but the same reasoning could still be applied. It could also be because your vitamin D levels dropped, so might be an idea if you have it checked again soon. 5000iu per day is only a maintenance dose once levels are up. But to get them up you should be taking about 10,000iu per day or more. Low vitamin D not only affects progesterone making it less effective, but it also affects the thyroid, see here, here, here, here, here and here. The latest paper published this year suggests lack of vitamin D could be the cause of hypothyroidism. It's low in all 'autoimmune' diseases, which makes me suspect it's the cause of all of them! When a cell malfunctions, which it does with low vitamin D, it's not surprising the immune system attacks it. Quite frankly I feel you could get your level to 100-150ng/ml. I know the upper limit the specialists suggest is 100ng/ml, but the number of people I know who have got it higher and benefit is growing, toxicity is only reached at 200ng/ml. There have been a few incidences of people take toxic doses, one took 2 million iu per day! He noticed adverse side affects, so he stopped taking it and his level obviously dropped down and he was fine 3 months later, see here. Dr Cannell says it all, about the hysteria around high dose vitamin D, much the same as progesterone, which has also recently been proven wrong, see here. Continued below

Feb 21, 2013
Bleeding won't stop Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Andrea This paper suggests 40,000iu per day vitamin D shows no signs of toxicity, see here. I have tried 100,000iu per day for a month, my level only went from 59ng/ml to 79ng/ml. It was 92ng/ml at my last test. If I should get the slightest hint of a cold etc, I take 100,000iu per day for 6 days only. The bug hasn't got a chance! The danger about toxic levels of vitamin D is high calcium levels, not so much the vitamin D itself. This should be easily addressed by taking vitamin K2. This vitamin ensures calcium is deposited in bones and not soft tissue like arteries and brain. It's one of the co-factors for vitamin D anyway, along with magnesium. Let me know if my suggestions help. I know it's difficult for husbands, but far more so for the woman suffering! I've now given you a novel in reply! Take care Wray

Mar 27, 2013
Struggling
by: Andrea

Hi Wray,
So to update you my thyroid came back low. With in a week of upping my dose many of my symptoms, headaches, tired, anxiety dramatically stopped. I did get a normal break in between my period but my periods are still lasting a good 2 weeks long, although very very light they just have a hard time stopping for good. I've been on an increased dose of thyroid now for 6 weeks and still on 600mg of progesterone cream. I'm ready to just give up and take the pill. What do you think if I took the pill and progesterone cream. I just can't seem to get to the bottom of why I'm bleeding like this. I wonder how much my adrenals could be playing a roll as well.
Andrea

Mar 29, 2013
Struggling
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I'm so puzzled the NAC, taurine and vitamin D haven't helped you yet. It could just be time that's needed, as you only started them a month or two ago. Since you last wrote I've found bioflavonoids can help the bleeding too, see here and here. The actual study itself has no abstract, but the second paper I've given you gives a resume of it, done by one of the top nutritional doctors in the States. So please try adding 1000mg/day before attempting the pill. I feel this will only set you back as it does lower progesterone levels, plus filling you with synthetic hormones. I know when you last had your vitamin D tested it was 79ng/ml, have you had it tested again recently? Winter takes it's toll, even if taking supplements. Plus stress drops levels, so please have a test done soon. Please try the bioflavonoids and let me know if they have helped you. Take care Wray

Mar 30, 2013
OK!
by: Andrea

Wray,
Bought some bioflavonoids and will start those as you suggested. Ironically I was taking those back in the summer for vericose veins left over from pregnancy that bother me when it gets hot but stopped when I felt better. Vit D has not been checked but it's on my list next time we check my thyoid levels. I'm continuing with everything previous you suggested at suggested levels.

I'm on day 18 now of menstruating which over the last few days has actually gotten heavy with all day heachaches, cramping, tired and breast tenderness, no anxiety (yeah). I have two questions. 1. could the progesterone become less effective over time? 2 Is it possible if thyroid plays such a huge roll in hormones metobolism that as levels continue to get back to normal and my body slowly gets back to normal that it's using the progesterone normal again and I'm actually going through possibly estrogen dominance? From I understand it can take months for your body to recover from the low thryoid even after levels show normal.

Thank you,
Andrea

Mar 31, 2013
OK!
by: Wray

Hi Andrea You're so patient! I only hope the bioflavonoids help, as I don't know what else to suggest. Normally if vitamin D is too low it adversely affects progesterone, to the point I'm beginning to think no one should bother with progesterone if their vitamin D is low. But your level was 79ng/ml which is within range. I see you're going to have another test soon, would be good to hear what it is. We've had so much correspondence I'm not sure if I gave you the page we have on headaches and Migraines. It might be worth looking over it to see if there is anything you can pick up which might explain yours. Very puzzled by the cramps, these are caused by prostaglandins and other inflammatory cytokines, progesterone normally suppresses them. And this is our page on Breast Tenderness, which might have something to help you. One woman has just written in saying in spite of using 600mg/day progesterone she was still getting no where. Her doctor put her on 1200mg/day ALA, it is a potent antioxidant, and she is now down to 150mg/day progesterone. So that might be worth trying. I'm also surprised your thyroid is still slow, as this needs vitamin D to operate fully, see here, here, here, here, here and here. The thyroid is so important for normal metabolism, it does affect progesterone levels, if slow it adversely affects it, so this could be the case with you. That possibly once it's operating at normal levels, the progesterone might start working for you. I haven't found it stops working over time, I've been using it for 16 years now, and others I know have used it for years too. I'm relieved that you don't have anxiety now, as that was a big issue in the beginning. I did suggest you try EFT for your stress, have you considered it yet? It is remarkable at reducing it, and it could be this is what you need. Please consider it. Take care Wray

Apr 04, 2013
Tranexamic acid
by: Wray

Hi Andrea As you know I only look for natural means to healing, never drug based methods. But occasionally I have to look one up due to a query I get. I've just had such a query. The woman has been long term on tranexamic acid to stop the heavy bleeding she has. Tranexamic acid is given to treat or prevent excessive blood loss during surgery. And heavy menstrual bleeding. It appears to be safe, see here, here, here, here and here. She was concerned about some atrophied mess in her uterus, but none of the studies report this. But whether long term use would be counter productive they don't say either. But it has been used for a considerable number of years, see here. It is a synthetic derivative of the amino acid lysine, see here. One has to wonder why lysine itself is not used. Much as analogues of vitamin D are used in preference to vitamin D. There's no money in giving vitamin D, but for the drugs there are. Unfortunately I can't find any study using lysine, they all revert to tranexamic acid. But I was thinking if the bioflavonoids don't help, you could try adding about 1000mg/day lysine. And if that doesn't help then the tranexamic acid. But I do believe stress is behind your continuing problems and feel sure the EFT would help. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Apr 26, 2013
It's My Thyroid!
by: Andrea

Wray,
I wanted to let you know that it's my thyroid. Even after upping my dose my numbers hardly budged which is why I continued to feel lousy. So continuing to up them and find a good level but I am feeling so much better. I am confident my cycles will be back to normal here over the next couple months. I am feeling sooooooo much better. I think being on progesterone actually helped us figure out what was going on because for the first time in years I had clear thyroid symptoms where as before I had every symptom in the book. I can tell I'm going to finally have a normal cycle this month. So, now that I know I'll be keeping a close eye on my thyroid to make sure I stay on top of the correct dose but continuing to put into practice everything I've learned. Rest. Thank you for your help!
Andrea

Apr 27, 2013
It's My Thyroid!
by: Wray

Hi Andrea This is such good news! I was beginning to despair of you ever finding a solution. So you have been upping the thyroid meds and now feeling so much better, such good news. I admire you for your perseverance, and very relieved you didn't opt for a pill to stop all the nonsense! Now you should be able to reduce the progesterone slowly, but only once you feel confident to do so. I would so appreciate you keeping in touch, as I've learnt much from you and your journey! I know you're so busy, so as and when you feel you have some time to write I would love to hear it. Maybe for the benefit of others you could put down the protocol you are taking? Take care Wray

Jun 16, 2013
Feeling Good!!!
by: Andrea

Wray,
Hello! I wanted to give you an update. So, since really zeroing in on my thyroid and keeping a close eye on it pushing that TSH to stay under 2.0 I have been feeling really good. It's taken a few months. Each month better than the first. I am having normal cycles lengths, short periods with no pain and no PMS. No headaches. No anxiety. Sleeping good. On and on. Over the last few days I have started to lower my dose of progesterone which was at 600mg/ day all month. Very slowly lowering it. Will take me months to come down but it took years to get here. ha I am currently having an unusually long time between periods and that may be that the hight dose of progesterone I've been on is finally working. When my thyroid was off my body wasn't able to use that progesterone efficiently. I want to encourage other woman when they are struggling as I have been to take a really good look at their thyroid when other things fail. One of the biggest lessons I have learned through this struggle is that when I find the needle in the hay stack it's almost immediately that I see a difference. When progesterone is at the root I up it and see a difference within a day. When it was my thyroid I saw an immediate difference. So, whatever other woman try give it a week and if they aren't seeing some kind of a marked difference move on to the next thing, trying one thing at a time so as to not make it confusing. Not to say my troubles are over but oh I feel good. Thank you Wray. I will stay in touch and let you know how I fair.
Andrea

Jun 18, 2013
Feeling Good!!!
by: Wray

Hi Andrea So good to hear this! I admire your persistence too, I wish I could get it across to others that it does require experimenting. Plus researching and looking at all possibly angles. The thyroid, adrenals too, play a big role. But what a time it's taken you to find a solution. But the end result is so worth it. I'm delighted you're feeling so much better, which of course will only add to feeling better still. I know how debilitating it is to be down for whatever reason, it's impossible to pull ourselves out of it. I was so lucky to have found progesterone was my answer, although it's not always the only solution, but a part of it. It will be good to get the amount you're using lower, and yes please go at it slowly. I save the links to pages such as yours to give to others for encouragement. Well if they read your entire page they'll get an idea of how long you've been at it! I would love to hear from you again, updates are so helpful not only to me, but others too. Take care Wray

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