saliva test quandry

by td

I am 54 years old and started having hot flashes in the spring of 2014. My DR started me on compounded progesterone cream and a tri-hest estrogen cream. The estrogen seemed to intensify the hot flashes while the cream did nothing to alleviate. I then requested an oral compounded progesterone and found relief with 200mg at night. Then last fall the hot flashes came back and was given a saliva test from zrt. This is where I am confused with what I am learning from your website. I'm also not understanding the reading of these test. It says my estradiol is .9 with the range being .5-1.7. My Dr said I was low in estrogen and started me on .5mg/gm(50/50). My progesterone level was 2323 which is very high with normal being 30-300(100-300mg). They remarked on how high the progesterone level was and dropped the oral progesterone from 200mg to 100mg. I finally stopped the progesterone and kept up the estrogen and the hot flashes aren't near so bad but I feel terrible and never sleep good. If I go back on the oral progesterone, which I know I need and should not take the estrogen unabated, I am extremely sleepy during the day. I am gaining wait like a son of a gun hate being on the estrogen. Please explain the zrt ratio to me about my test. To reiterate, you think I can cease the estrogen and up my progesterone and beat these stinking hot flashes and have my life back? I take 5,000 units of Vita d but see that I could use upping that as well. My level is 66 in that range. I have excitedly ordered 4 tubes of Natpro. Please respond.


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Jan 23, 2015
saliva test quandry
by: Wray

Hi TD Thanks for trying the Natpro. The oestrogen can intensify the Hot Flushes. Particularly if you are on a low amount of progesterone, often it's not more than 20-30mg/day. 200mg/day progesterone in cream form is more effective than the oral progesterone. Oral is the least effective Delivery system, "The liver and gut region removed a mean of 96 per cent of the progesterone entering these tissues", see here. Stopping the progesterone would stop it ramping up the effect of oestrogen, but it doesn't surprise me you're not feeling good. Although we feel the ratio should be 600:1 and over, some women can do with a lower ratio, others with much higher. Quite honestly I feel it's more a question of how do you feel, than oh dear your progesterone is far too high, too low, or oestrogen is too high or too low. You are obviously not feeling right. It's not going to be a quick fix, particularly as you have been given oestrogen. Please be patient and see it through. Read the comments of other women to take courage, some are so helpful when they read of others problems. I hope you come right soon. Take care Wray

Jan 25, 2015
saliva test quandry
by: td

so as I am a newcomer to your site and absorbing much new info, do you think its possible the mere 200mg oral progesterone made my levels that high, and in your opinion, is that high, and also could you help me understand my numbers according to the ratio you recommend of 600:1. Also, my 28 daughter has been on 100 mg of oral progesterone and according to bloodtest has been told that her estrogen levels are that of a menopausal women, extremely low. What would cause that and would the progesterone cream help her hormones balance out. She like me experienced severe grogginess on the oral progesterone. Thanks in advance. Im reading and learning.

Jan 29, 2015
saliva test quandry
by: Wray

Hi TD Yes it is possible the oral progesterone increased your level. It could be they are improving on the quality of the oral progesterone, although as I understand it from studies, progesterone will be broken down in the gut. If you mean by 'my numbers' you'd like me to work out your ratio, it's 2581:1. This is high by all accounts, but as I said previously it's how a person feels that's the critical factor, not the ratio which is only a guideline. As I learn more about progesterone and it's use, I've come to realise that none of our long held beliefs apply. The only criterion is how does a person feel. Some have had progesterone levels in the ten's of thousands and have not suffered from it, see what Dr Zava has to say about high levels. Progesterone does suppress oestrogen, so it could be this which has caused your daughter's oestrogen to drop. But it could be that her ovaries are not producing it, this would also account for it. Progesterone does help balance out our moods and many physical problems too, but enough has to be used. We do have a few pages you and your daughter could look through, see How to use Progesterone Cream, Peri-menopause, Menopause, Menstruation and Anxiety. I hope this helps. Take care Wray

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