Question 1 1/2 months on progesterone for Wray, Joy, or anybody so inclined

by Chloe
(NY, NY)

I have been applying the cream for 1 1/2 months now. I started August 11th and had a very heavy cycle come on the 25th. It was more than welcomed as I usually have amenorrhea.

So here we are a month later and the past two days I have been waking up so fearful and anxious, as soon as my eyes open. Along with hot and cold flashes that I am not familiar with or accustomed to, that's very new to me.( new empathy gained today for those that do suffer with it) My feet feel so cold and I'm emotionally labile, crying about everything that touches my heart. Falling asleep has been an issue too. This morning was so bad I could not sit still, I applied an extra 200mg to my already 200mg dose,( yes, I'm the one who moaned about the high doses, I learned my lesson, foot in mouth) waited a while then took 1mg of Ativan. I would rather not use it but I felt it necessary.

Is this my period and or pms, since it is the same time as last month, trying to come through or do you see something else going on? Would this occur at 200mg daily? Should I stop the cream and begin to use it cyclically or wait another 2 months as directed for pcos and giving my system a rest?

I know we hear anxiety all the time, but I woke up completely and immediately disabled by fear.

So far besides the last two days, I have been a calmer person since starting the cream and thinking more positively. My vitamin d levels are good, I'm on a ketogenic diet, take a whole food vitamin and the antioxidants recommended here. The diet made ALL the difference in the world, so much so I feel I had no business starting the cream without changing my diet, the diet and cream work like synergy, imho.

BTW for Wray or anyone interested, I thought you may find this surprising, that's if you haven't heard already. I received an email back from Ray Peat a while ago, re mthfr, so pleasantly surprised he answers his emails, I admire his work, but disagree on things too, but I am not a doctor. I mentioned I am on high doses of a quality fish oil. He said fish oils are estrogenic and a thyroid antagonist, bad news, period. I was wondering if you or anyone else have heard about this? Is it a weak estrogenic, may be at certain doses?? I don't know, but I wonder if its more harm than good for us with pcos/ estrogen dominance?

Then I was reading some of Dr. Daltons work,(love her!) another eye opener for me. She mentioned only applying progesterone cream when our blood sugar is balanced and we have had something to eat. She feels some women did not do well during trials due to application of the cream while sugars were low. She was absolutely sure these women would have had success with progesterone if their sugars were stable. I would bet it is somewhere here in these pages, forgive me, if so. Does anyone here only apply cream after they have had something to eat? I am accustomed to putting cream on 1st thing in the morning.

Lastly, any new news on stock coming in? a higher percentage cream would be great.

Thank you

Comments for Question 1 1/2 months on progesterone for Wray, Joy, or anybody so inclined

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Sep 25, 2014
Question 1 1/2 months on progesterone for Wray, Joy, or anybody so inclined
by: Wray

Hi Chloe I'm not sure which cream you are using, so find it difficult to advise. If you have amenorrhea it appears you probably have PCOS. You do ask about using the cream as for PCOS. If you do have PCOS, then progesterone is invariably low and oestrogen often high. But testosterone almost always is. So the progesterone has initially ramped up those two hormones hence your symptoms. It's very difficult to say whether your next period is due, as you've had amenorrhea and therefore no cycle to follow. But it could be. If you do have PCOS, and those severe symptoms, then please consider using more than 200mg/day progesterone. The fear you felt is explained on our page about Anxiety. I can't tell you how delighted I am that you found the Ketogenic Diet has helped so much. Excess glucose is so damaging. I too admire Ray Peat, find his work fascinating, but there are a few things I don't agree with. He is very anti fish oils, it's something we have to make up our own minds about. If it's helping then continue to take it. The problem with oestrogen is it's found everywhere, there isn't a food that doesn't contain it, even meat. The following papers list the phytoestrogen content of foods, with seeds, legumes and grains having the highest content, see here. Even foods of animal origin contain them, see here. All oilseeds contain phytoestrogens too. The USDA Food Composition site is an excellent resource. It's best to get the full report, see here. Another excellent site, particularly for skin care products, is Skin Deep. Coconuts have the lowest level of phytoestrogen content of all nuts, but they still contain some, ferulic acid and p-coumaric acid. Although I'm against soy in particular, all legumes contain high levels of phytoestrogens, plus trypsin inhibitors, phytates and goitrogens, see here. Grains are just as bad, see here. I'm not convinced by the favourable studies, as there are just as many unfavourable, see here. So all grains and legumes should be avoided. One of the most potent oestrogen mimics is zearalenone, produced by some moulds such as Giberella and Fusarium. Zearalenone is a mycotoxin causing infertility and abortion in animals, especially pigs. It is heat-stable and found worldwide in grains such as maize, barley, oats, wheat, rice, sorghum and bread. All of which we eat too, it's not just animal food. So where does one draw the line?! So pleased you enjoyed Dr Dalton's work, she was an amazing person. I first met her in 1997, she gave me her advice freely knowing I was trying to help people. She was so aware how an unstable blood glucose affected her patients. But progesterone also helps stabilise it I've found, so I would always recommend using it irrespective of food intake. She recommended eating a complex carb to help, but fat is a far better stabiliser. Stock is in, I've just checked. It's been coming in all week, but going out as fast. Hopefully this will correct itself once all orders have been satisfied. We've been asked to make a higher percentage, a bigger container, supply it in a pump pot and more! We've considered all of these, but when taking into account the men who use a very small amount, to women using a tube a day, who do we cater for? Take care Wray

Sep 26, 2014
Thank you
by: Chloe

I agree, with undesired estrogens being in almost everything. You do have to draw a line, and weigh the benefits against possible risks.

I have stayed on the 400mg since then, it has improved and I take my magnesium now 1st thing in the morning rather than waiting. I know its calming at the right dose.

How great is that! you were fortunate enough to meet and get advice from Dr. Dalton, that must be a great memory.

Re the higher percentage cream, I meant the 33.3 % that's much higher than what I am using, it would be a pleasure to apply a little less. Happy to hear it's back as well. Did you say a pump and even higher concentration may be a future possibility?! I think that's a great idea, that will go over really well. Perhaps, keep the 33.3 and introduce the higher percentage pump, or find a pump that can be controlled somewhat, where half a pump would be half a dose etc. There are some pumps that are easier to manipulate than others. All of a sudden I'm a chemist and engineer, lol. Again, great idea.

I'm going to go back to a few of the links you listed, thanks again!

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