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Progesterone Reduced My Estrogen and Raised Testosterone

by David G. Mills
(Memphis, Tennessee, USA)

Two years ago when I had my testosterone checked for the first time at age 60, I was on statins and my testosterone level was 155 (normal 200 -700) and my estrogen was 46 (normal is up to 50). My LH, which is the hormone that tells your testicles to make testosterone, was 2 (2 to 9 is normal). Since I had low testosterone and low LH levels I went on shot testosterone therapy. Initially I got too much testosterone, and my testosterone levels went to 1176; but my estrogen also substantially increased to 82. I began having gynocomastia (male tits that were sore) and was briefly put on an estrogen blocker.

I went from taking testosterone shots to taking Androgel and about that time I got off estrogen blockers and started taking progesterone, about 30 mg per day. I was also on a statin which reduces testosterone. First tests on Androgel had my testosterone range about 600, but over time, my testosterone fell to 228 and I began to feel lousy again. But, to my surprise after about eight months on progesterone, at 30 mg per day, my estrogen was down to 28.

My Androgel dosage was upped but I still stayed in the normal low range for testosterone until I got off statins and finally my testosterone shot up to decent 450.

Then a curious thing happened. I was having to take about 5 pumps of Androgel 1.62 every day and still my testosterone was low normal (250 -300) if I was on statins.

So my doctor and I agreed I would do a test for about a month. For about a month I took no testosterone and took statins to see what my new baseline for testosterone was. But I really didn't want to feel bad either so I upped my progesterone to 60-75mg per day to help with the bad side effects I get from statins (severe mucsle cramps) and the lousy feeling I get from low testosterone. Unfortunately, the progesterone did not stop the bad side effects of the statins so I quit them after about 16 days and about one week before my test. Off statins and on progesterone alone, I felt fine after about a week off statins.

I didn't think progesterone would make any difference in my base testosterone level and expected it to go back to 155 like it was before I ever started taking testosterone ( when I was also on statins then). When I got my test results I was really surprised -- my testosterone was 348. Now my doctor thinks I don't need testosterone because I am well within the normal range.

I also have bph and had to start taking finasteride when I was on Androgel. I am hoping that upping my progesterone to 60-75 mg per day will help that, but so far my bph therapy is not working.

But in summary, taking progesterone seemed to up my base testosterone from 155 to 348 and lowered my estrogen from 46 to at 26 (when I was on testosterone therapy). My estrogen level might even be lower now.

I intend to stay off stains since I do not have cardiovascular disease and only have high cholesterol (last check was 240 which was great for me because it usually is 280 without them) due to a recent mega study showing that statins don't help unless you have cardio vascular disease.

So it looks like for awhile I will be doing 60-75mg of progesterone per day, and no statins, until something happens that makes me need to change.

Comments for Progesterone Reduced My Estrogen and Raised Testosterone

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Feb 15, 2013
 bph
by: David G. Mills

Since writing this article, I have reviewed the research on bph and see that it takes large amounts of progesterone to help reduce it. It may be that only taking 30mg per day of progesterone was not really a high enough dosage to do much good.

I will see what happens when I take 60-75mg of progesterone a day for six months or so, and then re-post.
Feb 16, 2013
 Hormones and diet
by: Kaylana

Hi David,
Thanks for sharing your interesting story. I have a few questions that might in turn help you maintain an ideal balance.

What was your diet like during this time period? Were you consuming the typical "standard American diet" (SAD)? Were you eating "healthy whole-grains"? And how did your weight change while taking the various medications?

I ask this because last year I became aware of how the SAD and "healthy" grains/carbs actually prevent the body from eliminating excess hormones that the liver has labeled for excretion. Grains also have an impact on our cholesterol levels that is more negative than positive.

Wheat consumption also inhibits our body from using and processing the Vitamin D - which we know is essential for the body to use and metabolize all the other hormones, particularly progesterone.

The body needs healthy fats in order to make all of the hormones - from the glucocorticoids to the androgens. We *need* cholesterol. (See Wiki "Steroidgenesis" for an interesting graph.)

It was only once I stopped consuming grains, increased my intake of healthy fats and used the progesterone cream was I able to get back to the wonderful 'normal' I used to be.

For some interesting reading check out Dr. William Davis' book and blog called "Wheat Belly". He is a cardiologist who has seen some wonderful results once people stopped eating the "SAD" and consuming grains. There are also several writers who have written cookbooks and blogs that offer support and encouragement to those not sure what to do/eat once they cut out grains.

It is a wonderful way of life, trust me. My whole family has found a new way of living and are much happier!

Cheers!
Feb 16, 2013
 Progesterone Reduced My Estrogen and Raised Testosterone
by: Wray

Hi David I'm delighted by these results. Maybe I've misunderstood you, but it seems that coming off the statins did the trick in allowing your testosterone to go back to normal levels, and not the progesterone. Have I got it wrong? Not that I'm unhappy about this, just the timeline seemed more suited to coming off statins. You said "My Androgel dosage was upped but I still stayed in the normal low range for testosterone until I got off statins and finally my testosterone shot up to decent 450." You then said "the progesterone did not stop the bad side effects of the statins so I quit them after about 16 days and about one week before my test......my testosterone was 348." I'm not sure if I gave you the link to this comment here on your other page. But progesterone certainly helped this man's BPH. Unfortunately he doesn't say how much he used. Let me know how you fare on the 60-75mg/day progesterone, although I feel you could go much higher and safely too. I don't know if you've read our page on Traumatic Brain Injury? But over 1200mg/day progesterone was given via IV transfusion to the patients, over 70% were men. I feel we're all too cautious in using high amounts. In the cases where women have used the high amount I recommend, in some instances 400mg/day and over, they have had symptoms resolve, without too many unpleasant side affects either. As far as safety is concerned, the recent discovery which came from Emory University's TBI studies, showed that even at ultra high amounts no toxicity was observed, see here. Many thanks for your continued feedback which I always look forward to. Take care Wray
Feb 16, 2013
 I am a low carbohydrate dieter
by: David G. Mills

Interesting comments Kaylana. I have been on essentially an Atkins diet since 1996. I eat very few carbohydrates. But my nemesis was always bread and wheat products. I found I could avoid other starches quite easily, things I really loved, like potatoes, rice and corn, but I had a real problem with wheat. Perhaps that is partly because it is so ubiquitous.

I heard about the wheat belly diet about five months ago and since wheat was always my nemesis, I have been avoiding wheat ever since. Avoiding wheat was difficult at first, but after a week or so, it was not that difficult. And I have lost about 17 pounds since, about half my goal.

The interesting thing about wheat, according to Dr. Davis, is not its carbohydrates but its proteins. It has three pernicious proteins, one that makes your gut leak, one that causes inflammation, and one that acts like an opiate, but instead of making you high, makes you hungry instead, causing the average person to consume an extra 400 calories or so each day.

I really think the claim that wheat makes you hungry and causes inflammation is true. In a couple of days, my hands quit swelling, general puffiness is gone, and I have certainly lost much of my appetite.

I think the combination of taking progesterone, which is a great anti-inflammatory, and avoiding an inflammatory food that is in so many things we eat, certainly has to help with health. Especially since inflammatories are being shown to cause serious health problems. C-Reactive Protein, a marker for an inflammatory state is now being heralded by some as a better indication of cardiovascular disease than cholesterol.

And you are right about cholesterol. We need it. Dr. Ray Peat suggests that reducing cholesterol my in fact reduce the risk of heart disease, but it may cause you do die sooner of something else. LDL is a very good antibacterial. My brother (who is a PhD in biochemistry) said that reducing your LDL may help you avoid heart disease but may make you die sooner from a case of MRSA. Dr. Peat said he thought the ideal cholesterol level for women for longevity was 270.

So I think making sure you have enough cholesterol to ensure that you have enough progesterone is quite important and by reducing it we are reducing our stores of progesterone.
Feb 17, 2013
 Hormones and diet
by: Wray

Hi Kaylana Your inputs are always so good, please keep commenting! There's nothing worse than grains, legumes too. Both full of starchy carbs, plus of course phytoestrogens. As most people eat a huge amount of these, the amount of oestrogen they're getting is also huge. Take care Wray
Feb 17, 2013
 Dropping Statins and Progesterone in Combination
by: David G. Mills

Helped get my testosterone in a decently normal range. I attribute most of the gain to progesterone because I don't think only a week off statins made a huge difference in testosterone level. But I don't really know. I don't think I would be feeling nearly this good if all I had done was get off statins.

Since I know of all the studies you mention I am not really worried about side effects of progesterone. My doctor won't recommend to me that I be on progesterone (says there is nothing in the medical literature that says men should take it and I don't want to get in a huge argument with him). But I will just take it in the 60-75 mg range for 6 months and see what happens. I don't like the bph meds at all and their side effects which are ... well take a guess, you know what they are.
Feb 18, 2013
 I am a low carbohydrate dieter
by: Wray

Hi David Thanks for this, I hope others read it. In case they're interested, this is Dr Davis's site Wheat Belly. I agree from personal experience, that wheat makes you hungry and you want more, a case of dropping blood glucose. Thanks for clarifying the action of wheat proteins. But the starch in wheat also has a dark side. Modern wheat contains a high level of amylopectin, this causes irreversible Insulin Resistance see, here. And of course IR leads to Met Syndrome and thence to heart disease. This is Ray Peat's article on cholesterol here. And this site The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics is worth reading too. An interesting finding from a Japanese study was an increase in cholesterol 3 years before menopause in women, see here. And although it also increased with age in men, there was no definitive time. Oestrogen? Take care Wray
Feb 18, 2013
 Dropping Statins and Progesterone in Combination
by: Wray

Hi David You are probably right, for which I'm delighted of course. I should have known you know all those studies, with the amount of research you do. Pity about your doctors attitude to progesterone, and in spite of the success you've had with it. And yes I do know what bph meds do! Take care wray
Feb 18, 2013
 Thanks for the Links
by: David G. Mills

I read a lot of this stuff but really don't have a good system of remembering and finding where I read it. I have bookmarked Ray Peat's article on Cholesterol and longevity and reread it today and passed on the link to several friends in the medical field, including my doctor (he made the mistake of giving me his email when I told him about the study showing statins reduce testosterone) who thinks that Progesterone therapy for men is not recognized by mainstream medicine which is all he is willing to practice on his patients.

I am just waiting for an excuse to send him the British article in the Annals of Internal Medicine (my doctor is an internist) of a meta study of 62,000 patients that showed that statins provide no more benefit than a placebo unless you have cardiovascular disease. As my brother put it to me, this is not even debatable anymore and convinced his doctor to take him off statins. If you want these links to these studies let me know. I don't like posting links in a form like this because I have forgotten how to edit them down to a single word or phrase.
Feb 18, 2013
 bhp and magnesium
by: David G. Mills

One other thing. Nothing makes me pee better than about 750mg of magnesium. I have been taking magnesium for 15 years (Atkins recommended it as protective for your heart because it puts calcium in your bones where it belongs rather than in your arteries where it doesn't). But it sure acts as a relaxer of vessels of any kind (also why it is a good cathartic -- think milk of Magnesia).

I would probably be much better off taking just magnesium and progesterone than taking those bhp drugs.
Feb 19, 2013
 Thanks for the Links
by: Wray

Hi David It is so easy to reverse heart disease, or better still not get it in the first place! Just as it is easy enough to reverse type 2 diabetes, eat raw food, see Raw For 30 Days. This would also reverse the heart disease too. Last year the FDA added a warning to statin use, saying it increased diabetes and memory loss, see here. So it's like playing Russian roulette, do you go for possible avoidance of a heart attack, or end up with diabetes and Alzheimer's! This is the meta analysis you were referring to... Statins do not reduce mortality in patients with no history of cardiovascular disease. Unfortunately the abstract doesn't say much, you have to buy the paper for the full info. This is another good paper on debunking the myth, see here. And these two papers here and here point out no one seems to know why statins work....."the unexpected and unexplained clinical benefits produced by statins have also been shown to be properties of vitamin D. It seems likely that statins activate vitamin D receptors." There are plenty of studies showing the higher the latitude above the equator, the greater the risk of getting heart disease. Winter plays a bearing too, there are more heart attacks in Dec/Jan in the northern hemisphere and more in June/July in the southern. Lack of sun again. Interesting about the magnesium, it does relax muscle, whereas calcium constricts it, it's how they work. It is the most important co-factor for vitamin D, alongside vitamin K. In fact vitamin K is the nutrient which plays a greater role in preventing 'bone' being built up in arteries and other soft tissue, and depositing it in bones. It's also an anti-cancer vitamin. Vitamin D is also the most anti-proliferative nutrient there is (plus progesterone of course!), so should also help the BPH. Take care Wray
Mar 06, 2013
 Statins and my Prostate hyperplasia
by: Alfredo E.

I am sorry for Wray (I love and respect her) to say this but the only ones that don´t know that statins affect free testosterone are doctors….Cholesterol is part the hormone transport system in the body, if you lower cholesterol, your testosterone is automatically reduced in every cell receptor of your body, that simple.

There is no way to get testosterone to your cells if your cholesterol is lower. Besides, human natures naturally compensates for the normal testosterone drop that comes with age by rising cholesterol. But many doctors don´t know or don´t care about overall health of their patients.

You can tell the difference by how you feel, how you sleep and many other side effects of this “wonder” drugs.

It is false that high cholesterol produces atherosclerosis and heart disease. In fact it is the other way around, the higher your cholesterol the longer you will live, according to statistics. Statins are only good to fill the bank accounts of the drug industry. It won’t save you from a heart attack.

Statins don´t even help if you already have heart disease. I am the proof of that, I had 2 stents inserted into my heart 8 years ago, I don´t take any statin, my cholesterol is over 280 (I don´t even measure it anymore since my HDL is over 80, my small particle LDL is very low and my triglycerides are in the 60s. Just by eliminating processed foods, doing exercise 30 minutes a day and by taking fish oil. That is it…

Low starches and zero processed foods diet with exercise out in the sun are much better heart disease preventions that any drug. Nevertheless, brain washed doctors and “patients” will pay for any pill that avoids them any changes in unhealthy habits. That is the perfect couple to make statins the best sold drug in the world.

I also want to tell you that after over a year of taking 30 mg per day (3 doses) of progesterone for my prostate hyperplasia my experience is negative. It has gotten worse by the day. To the point that I am in line for the butcher as a last resort.

It is a real shame because at 64 I felt VERY, VERY well, energetic and full of life but this problem is getting to me. My nights are a real misery with 4-5 trips to the john; I know all the public bathrooms in my entire city.

I am afraid of the horror stories about prostate operation will become a reality in my life and I may become impotent and incontinent. That also keeps me awake at night but apparently there is no way out…..Anyway, I did my best but was not enough, I give up!!!

Best regards,
Alfredo E.
Mar 08, 2013
 Bump up the Progesterone
by: Anonymous

Alfredo: Before you give up bump the progesterone up to 60-75 mg per day. 30 per day didn't help me one bit, but at 60 I am seeing results. The scientific data says progesterone has to be in high doses to get BHP results.
Mar 08, 2013
 bumping up bhp
by: davidgmills

That comment was from me
Mar 09, 2013
 Statins and my Prostate hyperplasia
by: Wray

Hi Alfredo Bless you for the kind words! I do agree about the statins. It appears they reduce inflammation by raising vitamin D levels, how much safer to take vitamin D, see here and here. Thank you for trying the progesterone, but I don't believe you're using enough. 30mg/day won't do much, probably enough to stimulate oestrogen and make matters worse. Please consider increasing it substantially, I suggest 500mg/day. Progesterone does reverse hyperplasia, it reverses tumours too, see here. The amounts used were extremely high. I know I've asked this before, but please have a vitamin D test done. Once you know this you can take the appropriate dose to get your level up high, to at least 100ng/ml. Both Progesterone and Vitamin D work synergistically, a lack of vitamin D reducing the benefits of progesterone, see here, here and here. Please consider this. Take care Wray
Mar 10, 2013
 Thanks Wray
by: Alfredo E.

OK, Wray, I am ordering today more progesterone cream to start my last effort.

Regarding statins, please read this story to learn waht happened to an australian when he took the drug.
Mar 11, 2013
 Thanks Wray
by: Wray

Hi Alfredo I'm pleased about that. And please don't use low doses, it's not worth it. It's very safe to go high, hopefully you've read that page I gave you. And you can read the one on Traumatic Brain Injury too, where they gave mostly men over 1200mg/day progesterone via IV transfusion. I did read that story, it's awful. But the worst part is the indifference of the medical authorities and the government. I have another paper of Colpo's on cholesterol, it's excellent, see here. A friend of mine was on statins, and try as I might I couldn't persuade her to stop them. But then she wrote to say she had muscle weakness in one arm and couldn't move it. I warned her it could be rhabdo, and sent her papers, that did the trick. Plus she changed doctors immediately afterwards, who threw up her hands in horror to hear she was on statins. Luckily she didn't have it. Please keep in touch. Take care Wray
Mar 15, 2013
 Dry climax and erectile dysfunction
by: David G. Mills

Since progesterone is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor, it stands to reason that men could develop some of the side effects they get with taking such a drug based inhibitor, such as Finasteride.

Apparently 2 in 1000 men who take Finasteride develop a dry climax. About 5 in 100 get erectile dysfunction and 3 in 100 get low libido.

http://besthealth.bmj.com/x/topic/392698/article-treatment/469263.html

Initially I got erectile dysfunction on Finasteride so I quit taking it. Then I started taking Finasteride again when I was having so much difficulty urinating. During the second treatment with Finasteride I had upped my progesterone from 30 mg per day to 60 mg per day. On the increased dose of progesterone with Finasteride I had no erectile dysfunction, but developed a dry climax.

So I quit taking Finasteride but the dry climax has persisted at 60 mg.

Just when my problems with urination seemed to be resolving, I get dry climax. Well, I guess I will cut back on progesterone to 30 mg and see what happens.
Mar 16, 2013
 Dry climax and erectile dysfunction
by: Wray

Hi David I don't think you should blame progesterone for this, or compare it to the drug based 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. The adverse side effects of these can be severe, see here. Plus finasteride can increase the risk of high-grade prostate cancer, certainly not worth the risk! Whereas progesterone has none, not even at what many would call toxic amounts, see here. The reason for BPH is 'not well understood', see here. Some reason it's DHT, others that it's oestrogen. Both increase as a man ages, but I place my bets on oestrogen. It's a known mitogen, and there seems a possibility it's involved in prostate cancer, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. There is also evidence testosterone is not. Within the body there are feedback systems, no less between progesterone and oestrogen. An oestrogen spike initiates progesterone production, the reverse is also true. I believe this is what has occurred with you. The increase from 30mg to 60mg was enough to cause the spike in oestrogen. There is only one way to resolve it, and that's to increase the progesterone substantially. Or to continue on the 60mg until it slowly resolves. I've just answered another man, but in his 30's who was on finasteride which killed his libido and caused erectile dysfunction. He was using 30mg/day, I suggested he increase to 100mg/day and he's reported back that his problems have worsened. I've suggested he increase, or continue on the 100mg/day until it resolves. The Oestrogen Dominance effect occurs in both men and women, although women have a far worse time over it than men. Take care Wray
Mar 16, 2013
 my estrogen is lower than ever
by: davidgmills

Except that my estrogen is half of what it was before I started taking progesterone. Actually, my estrogen might be even less than a third of what it was at the high when I was on large doses of testosterone. My estrogen/progesterone ratio is far better than it once was when I didn't have this problem. I am not having any of the obvious side effects of high estrogen like I had when I was on testosterone such as gynocomastia.

It may just be the finasteride and if so, it make take me awhile to get over it. But before I try high dosages of progesterone, I think I need to back off in case this is some kind of 5 alpha reductase problem.
Mar 18, 2013
 my estrogen is lower than ever
by: Wray

Hi David It might be only half, or less, but the sudden stimulation it's been given by the increase in progesterone is enough to wake up receptor sites. This happens so often when women increase progesterone, no matter what the level of oestrogen. It's the single most complained about problem. I'm always having to reassure them it's not the progesterone, that it will pass, quicker if more is used. More often than not they reduce the amount, and then tell me it's worked, they don't have the symptoms. And that it must have been the progesterone. I usually give up at this point! Take care Wray
Apr 23, 2013
 update
by: davidgmills

Since I developed dry ejaculation I finally went to see a urologist to have a specialist check my prostate. I got some more labs done first. Since I didn't know what was causing this problem, I dropped my progesterone to 10-15mg per day before I had my labs done for a couple of weeks. My testosterone was still normal (350 range -- I have been off statins for months now) but my estradiol was back to 50 having cut my progesterone in half from what I had been taking for the last year or so.

The urologist quickly told me that the dry ejaculation was from an alpha blocker my internist had prescribed, Tamulosin, as Tamulosin causes this in about 30% of men. The urologist put me on another alpha blocker, Alfuzosin, which he says rarely causes this problem. Sure enough, after less than a week of changing medication, my dry ejaculation resolved.

Also, the urologist told me that my prostate is not large for my age, although 8 months ago my internist described it as being very large. What happened? Did my internist not know that my prostate was normal size eight months ago, or did taking progesterone without being on testosterone for four months reduce its size? Who knows? I certainly wasn't on Finasteride long enough for it to help and my urologist doesn't think Finasteride works very well anyway, so I think Finasteride can be ruled out.

One more thing about not being on testosterone -- my hematocrit is back to normal when it was getting slightly elevated while on testosterone.

Only real lab issue is my cholesterol that is about 280 now, but I feel so bad when I reduce it that I guess I just am not going to worry about having high cholesterol anymore.
Apr 24, 2013
 update
by: Wray

Hi David I can't thank you enough for your feedback, always so informative. I only hope other men see it, I do give them your page if any write in. I know the alpha blockers are given for BPH, but how they can reverse hyperplasia is beyond me. Their main function is for hypertension. This is often related to low vitamin D. Progesterone does help high BP too. Although this study here was done on blacks, the affect of low vitamin D on BP would be the same for whatever skin colour. But of course both Progesterone and Vitamin D stop cells proliferating, so I'd hazard a guess it's the progesterone which has caused the prostate to shrink. Unless you've upped your vitamin D intake? Presumably you could now stop the alpha blocker? Delighted the haematocrit count is back to normal. And cholesterol, well I think you know my views on that, plus all those papers I sent you refuting the claim made by the majority that it's essential to keep it low. Take care Wray
Apr 24, 2013
 vitamins and minerals
by: davidgmills

I forgot to mention Wray that my Vitamin D was low again so I have been trying to take much more of it (5000u per day). I find that it really improves my energy level. And I continue to take large amounts of magnesium, 500-700 mg per day, to help with urination and to prevent atherosclerosis. magnesium does a very good job of dilating vessels of all kinds and keeping calcium out of them.
Apr 24, 2013
 PSA
by: davidgmills

My PSA is normal and always has been, but I have a good friend whose PSA is high and I want to recommend that he take some progesterone. But I can't find any studies saying that progesterone will lower PSA. I've told him that progesterone is necessary for proper apoptosis and that estrogen is pobably responsible for his high PSA, but I just can't find any real support other than some speculation by Dr. Lee and some anecdotal evidence by him. If you know of any, please let me know and I will pass it on.
Apr 24, 2013
 alpha blockers
by: davidgmills

So that it is clear, I want to mention that alpha blockers are being prescribed for me not for bph, but for difficulty in urination. I think they help me retain less fluid and make urination much easier. They help me in that regard. i don't think they have any effect on bph.
Apr 25, 2013
 C-Reactive Protein
by: davidgmills

I forgot to mention that I convinced my doctor to do a C-Reactive Protein test on me as well. Although not given a number, my C-Reactive protein level was normal or low (don't really know which). C- Reactive Protein is an indicator of inflammation and normal or low levels are indicative of low inflammation. Perhaps a 15 months of progesterone therapy had something to do with this. Perhaps I always have had low C-Reactive Protein levels since I have never had a test before. At any rate it was a bit of good news and helped me make the decision to stay off statins.
Apr 25, 2013
 vitamins and minerals, a-blockers and PSA
by: Wray

Hi David Oh dear, I had a feeling your vitamin D was low. And if your lab or doctor told you it was low, then it's very low. The FDA have set the 'adequate' level at 30ng/ml. Specialists are recommending a minimum level of 50ng/ml, the less conservative at 70-100ng/ml. Mine is currently 92ng/ml. 5000iu per day is only a maintenance dose, it won't raise levels fast. You need to take at least 10,000 iu per day if not more. Recent research indicates we should be taking 10,000iu's per day, see here. I know I go on about it but it's the most important nutrient above all else. A lack leading to too many diseases and problems to go into here. But good sites are the Vitamin D Society and GrassrootsHealth. It does improve energy, as it improves mitochondrial oxidative function in the cell, see here, here, here and here. Magnesium is an essential co-factor for vitamin D, I'm pleased you're taking such a good dose. Both progesterone and vitamin D are vasodilators too. Another essential co-factor is vitamin K2. Vitamin K2 is found in organ meats, egg yolks, butter and some cheeses and fermented foods. It's has been found to reduce osteoporosis, calcification of arteries and cancer. These are excellent articles here, here and here. Continued below
Apr 25, 2013
 vitamins and minerals, a-blockers and PSA part 2
by: Wray

Hi David Vitamin K2, as one of the cofactors for vitamin D, ensures deposition of calcium in bones, preventing it's deposition in arterial plaque. Excess free calcium in the blood results in calcified arteries and heart disease, plus depression, see here, here, here, here and here. I didn't think the alpha blocker was for high BP, but it is used for BPH, which as I say puzzles me. Re the PSA I don't have any studies on progesterone and reducing it. I've just done a search through PubMed and found nothing. But vitamin D does, see here, you'll notice the best dose was 40,000iu per day. This study here used only 4,000iu per day and found no change in the PSA, but it did decrease the Gleason score. Evidently a higher dose is required. This paper here is written by Dr Cannell, it's a general one on vitamin D and men's health. PSA is not only associated with the prostate, it is found in other tissues, see here here. This study here says PSA in women is a marker of excess testosterone. Has anyone done a study on it's correlation with testosterone in men, rather than a cancer marker..... interesting. While this study here does not recommend it for prostate cancer screening. And of course these studies don't think it should be used as a marker either, see here, here and here. Take care Wray
Apr 27, 2013
 C-Reactive Protein
by: Wray

Hi David This is good news. The level of CRP rises when there is inflammation throughout the body, normally none should be found. Levels if found, vary from <1.0mg/L to >3.0mg/L.
Medline CRP. The progesterone could have helped as it is an antioxidant, but so too is cholesterol, and you say yours is high. So it could have been this. Take care Wray
May 10, 2013
 Vitamin D and Alpha blocker update
by: davidgmills

Since your last post I read more on Vitamin D and upped my dosage. Since I was so low, 17.6, and since it seems like the best proxies for optimum Vitamin D are apes in the wild who average 60 - 80, I started taking 15,000 iu per day. Did that for a couple of weeks and tapered off to 10,000 per day as even at that level I may have to work all summer to get to the 60 level. The best guide I saw for a maintenance dosage was 35 iu per pound.

Don't know that the alpha blocker is doing anything to help me urinate. The best thing still seems to be 500-750 mg of magnesium per day. But those high levels give one diarrhea. But I would rather have that than difficulty peeing.
May 12, 2013
 Vitamin D and Alpha blocker update
by: Wray

Hi David Well I'm delighted you have finally read about the importance of vitamin D! I've been asking you to have a test done ever since you wrote in. I gave you those studies which found it raised testosterone too. Your level was what I would call dangerously low. Even the FDA set their adequate at 30ng/ml, specialists say a minimum of 50ng/ml, the less conservative who I follow, anything from 70-100ng/ml, mine is currently 92ng/ml. I intend keeping it there. I wouldn't put much store by the 35iu per pound. Many things affect the level, for instance vitamin A inhibits it's uptake, see here, here and here. So if a person were taking vitamin A supplements or eating lots of liver vitamin D would remain low. Gut dysbiosis affects it, so too does inflammation. Your CRP test showed you had a low level luckily. The amount of vitamin D needed varies with body weight, body fat and age. Fat malabsorption syndromes require more. Many drugs affect it's metabolism too. Grapefruit juice does too. Cannell et al say "its kinetics are not linear, 1000 IU/day will substantially raise low baseline levels, but a similar dose will not increase higher baseline levels by a similar increment.", see here. These are the two good sites on vitamin D, Vitamin D Society and GrassrootsHealth. This last site is doing a survey on vitamin D, anyone can join. I would suggest you increase your dose to 20,000iu per day for about 3 months, then have another test done, please. I've found nothing but good comes of having a high level. It is a potent anti-inflammatory, plus the most powerful inhibitor of cellular proliferation. Hopefully you'll find no need for any drug once your level is high. Take care Wray
Oct 22, 2013
 progestrone and hair loss
by: Anonymous

does the progestrone works for hair loss
Oct 22, 2013
 progestrone and hair loss
by: Wray

Hi there It can, so can many other nutrients. We do have a page on Hair Loss you could look through. Take care Wray
Apr 26, 2014
 update again
by: davidgmills

I see it has been awhile since I have updated so it is time to do so.

I finally saw a urologist and my peeing problem turned out to be an overactive bladder and not bph. I take oxybutynin and that pretty much corrects that problem.

Now for the interesting stuff. For over a year now I have been taking 60 mg of topical progesterone a day, 100 mg of prognenolone tablets every other day, 25 mg of DHEA a week, and 1500 to 2000 mg of d-aspartic acid (increases LH) per day. All are over the counter. I also take 5000 IU of Vitamin D a day.

The results have been amazingly good. In August of 2013 my testosterone was up to 448 (estradiol not taken) and my LH was 3. Then this month, April of 2014, my testosterone had increased to 590 and my estradiol was way down to 10.5 and my Sex hormone binding globulin was 52.3 (LH not taken). Vitamin D was 49 last August but was not tested this time.

I have come a long way.

In November of 2010 before I began my first hormone therapy my testosterone was 155, my esradiol was 46 my LH was 2.1 and in February of 2011 my sex hormone binding globulin was only 30 after en weekly shots of testosterone. I had low Vitamin D for a long time even though I live in Memphis.


I had really low LH and that could have been a lot of my problem. For men who have that, here is the article showing d-aspartic acid boosts LH:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19860889

But I would not take d-aspartic acid long term without taking plenty of testosterone precursors (the three I take) to make sure you don't deplete yourself of them.

Several men I know are now trying my routine and I will continue to update as warranted.
May 28, 2014
 Progesterone Reduced my Estrogen and Raised Testosterone
by: Joy

Hi David

As Wray is on sabbatical she will not be replying to any posts or emails. I have followed your progesterone journey on Wray's website and what an improvement, even though it has taken time.

Now that they have determined that you have an overactive bladder, has anyone checked your magnesium to calcium ratio as that causes the bladder to go into spasm if it's out or too high? As your vitamin D level was low, it could well be that your magnesium level was too.
Aug 30, 2014
 Problems with ED - Trying Progesterone
by: Hugh

Hi,

I am a 53 year old guy.

I started to suffer from erectile dysfunction about a year ago. My doctor tested my testosterone level which was "borderline low" (can't remember the actual numbers.) I was also constantly tired, feeling exhausted during the day even when sleeping soundly, feeling very depressed and irritable, drinking too much and generally very unhappy.

My doctor prescribed sildenafil and the ED improved a little at first but the effects were erratic and short lived.

I have since undergone some dramatic lifestyle changes, lost weight, eating better, drinking less and also started taking the progesterone cream (quarter tsp twice a day.) I am sleeping better, losing weight, feeling better than I have in years and the ED improved a lot after two weeks on the cream.

Then suddenly the ED came back worse than ever.

I am now on vitamin supplements (C,B1,B2,B6, Folic Acid, B12, Biotin, Pantonthenic Acid, Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc and Ginko biloba) and continuing with the cream but the ED is a constant source of misery.

I occasionally try the sildenafil again and usually it has no effect until the morning after I take it when it suddenly works to some degree but it's still not great.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Hugh
Aug 30, 2014
 My regimen now
by: davidgmills

Hugh:

After a couple years of experimentation, (I am now 64 years old) with progesterone, pregnenolone, DHEA and d-aspartic acid, I have greatly improved my overall health as is documented by lab results. Last April, (four months ago) my testosterone was 590 and my estradiol was 10 and my LH was 3 (up from 2).

My regimen for about the last year and a half has been this:

60 mg of topical progesterone a day,
100 mg of pregnenolone (pill) every other day,
25 mg of DHEA (pill) a week and
2000 mg of d-Aspartic acid (pills) daily.

Recently I tweaked this regimen somewhat to take 100 mg of pregnenolone about 4 times a week and take 25 mg of DHEA twice a week instead of once. (Based on re-reading Dr. Ray Peat on these two substances. He says DHEA reduces by 1 mg a day for every five years over 30).

If progesterone was helping your ED, I don't think you were taking nearly enough of it to sustain its benefits long term. The amount you take would not have helped my back, for example.

I was asked by the owner of a bodybuilding website to write an article on my regimen, it is very in depth, and you can read it here.

It explains why I use each one of these things. For example, pregnenolone has a much longer half life than progesterone, your body converts it to progesterone, and it is much cheaper than progesterone. DHEA is quite necessary and it comes from pregnenolone more so than progesterone. D-Aspartic acid increases LH.

I am fortunate in that I did not have ED, except for briefly when taking a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, which I promptly quit.

I would suggest you try my regimen for a while and report back as to whether it helps. Several men are on my regimen now but none have ED. All have improved labs.
Sep 20, 2014
 Low Dose Progesterone
by: DON

I would ignore anyone who advises a man (or even a woman) to take 100mg/day of Progesterone.

This dose will make you calm etc, however it will cause weight gain, ED, low libido, depression etc.

With regards to progesterone less is more. As little as 2-4mg of TD progesterone should be plenty.
Sep 21, 2014
 Ignore if you will
by: davidgmills

I don't take 100mg of progesterone a day. I take 60 mg of progesterone and 100mg of pregnenolone.

You are absolutely wrong about the side effects you claim, at least in my case and in the case of several other men who have tried this regimen.

Before you tell others what will happen, maybe you should try it yourself.

Otherwise, your comment is not based on any scientific data. For one thing, no doctor ever tests for progesterone levels in men (at least as a matter of routine testing) so how would you know what amount is best or what side effects there would be.
Feb 24, 2015
 Low dose Progesterone only?
by: Brian

Don- can you elaborate on your comments please?

Are you a medical professional? What was your personal experience with progesterone? Can you post some labs?
Jul 07, 2015
 Dhea pregnolone supplement
by: Russ.s

I think you might have stumbled onto a good stack, I found this supplement online

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-dhea-pregnenolone-complex-60-veg-caps

Has any else tried your combination ?
I am going to give it a try.

I have had prostatitis and bph flow issues, progesterone cream has worked for me,



Jul 10, 2015
 Progenolone / DHEA product
by: davidgmills

That is a good product except that I take DHEA about twice a week rather than every day. But a bottle of this would definitely work on the two days a week I take DHEA.

I know of two other guys who tried my formula. One swears that it reduced his PSA to where he did not have to have a prostate biopsy. PSA went from 7 and 8's to 1. He had also been on testosterone shots at the time and was having lots of peaks and valleys. My formula leveled those out and put him well within the normal range for testosterone but not nearly as high as I was. Perhaps it just takes a long time to get those levels back. And the normal range of testosterone is so wide who knows what either of ours should be?

The other guy said it really helped his well being and mood. He was going through a divorce and having a rough time mentally. He never had his testosterone levels checked as far as I know.
Aug 31, 2015
 Hypopituitarism
by: W

Have any of you explored the possibility that your reported hormone levels are a result of a malfunctioning pituitary or hypothalamus?

David's "low LH" is a symptom.

It is possible or even likely that a pituitary adenoma is what you should be looking into, rather than fiddling with hormone supplementation.
Sep 01, 2015
 Yes, my pituitary was checked
by: davidgmills

In fact I had an MRI to rule out a tumor and I had none. My internist at the time was quite perplexed (he suspected a tumor as the reason) and had no explanation for why my LH was low.
Sep 02, 2015
 MRI
by: W

Hmmm. I've since noted that elsewhere on this site and in your post at chestsculpting.com you report having had a "CAT scan". Not sufficient to rule out a pituitary irregularity.

My intention is not to diminish the value of your work. But this inconsistency is critical.
Sep 02, 2015
 I don't remember whether I had a CT scan
by: davidgmills

Or an MRI. It is quite common here to have one or the other. I have had many of both on many parts of my body. If I said I had a CT scan on the other website, since I wrote that much closer in time to my post here, that was probably what I had, not an MRI.

But the doctor was checking for a tumor and I feel reasonably certain either one would detect one.

I do remember discussing with him what could be done to raise LH and he said there was nothing practical we could do. I wanted to try raising my LH before I took testosterone. He said that he knew of no way to do that. In the US, it is damn near impossible, because of medical malpractice fears for a doctor to do anything that is out of the norm.

I later determined D-Aspartic acid would raise LH and it did raise mine from 2 to 3 (on a scale of 1 to 10). Was that sufficient to help raise my testosterone level? Don't know but 2 was considered to be in the normal range and so 3 was a huge improvement over that.

I am now stuck with a new doctor who won't do any of the tests I want. Haven't had my testosterone checked since the spring of 2014. She last told me to get off of progesterone. Again just another doctor afraid for malpractice reasons to do anything out of the norm.

I know this because I was a personal injury attorney for 35 years and handled a few medical malpractice cases. The best defense a doctor has in a medical malpractice situation is to say he did what the vast majority of doctors would do. They really feel like they subject themselves to liability when they do something a bit out of the mainstream. In fact one of my doctors clearly told me he will not practice anything but mainstream medicine.

Then there are also the insurance companies that refuse to pay for all kinds of treatment. Under Obamacare, more types of treatment are required by law to be covered, but again coverage is much less likely to be accepted when the care is not mainstream medicine.

There is not a single doctor I have had that would approve of me taking progesterone and I am sure all put in their records that I am doing so against medical advice, just to protect themselves.
Aug 23, 2017
 Statins
by: Jeffc

I believe your increased Testosterone was because you got off the statins. Low hormone production is a common side effect of those drugs. Cholesterol is the fuel for pregenolone to manufacture all the other hormones in a cascading fashion.
Jul 30, 2018
 update
by: davidgmills

I don't think getting off statins had anything to do with raising my testosterone. I think it was the progesterone because others have used my formula who were never on statins and raised their testosterone.

I still do 60 mg of progesterone a day and 100 mg of oral pregnenolone and 25 mg of DHEA. Quit the D-Aspartic acid primarily due to cost.
Mar 10, 2019
 Break from progesterone
by: Anonymous

The SupplementSpot progesterone recommends that men take a 5 day break from the cream once a month. Do you find that to be necessary?
Thanks,
JR
Mar 11, 2019
 Break from progesterone
by: Joy

Hi there. There is no need for men to take a break from using progesterone. They do not have a monthly cycle to deal with or other female issues. You could try to take a break and see how you feel.
May 22, 2021
 My thoughts
by: Brent

Firstly, testosterone at 300-400 are not good ranges, and although labeled as normal, they are low normal, and not ideal. An ideal level is around 600. If testosterone therapy is not something you are interested in then try clomid as it works great at lowering estrogen and increasing testosterone. At many TRT clinics they are offering it to those who do not want to take testosterone injections.

I have been doing research on progesterone, and I have found that high doses are not good, and low doses are ideal, according to the studies I have read. A male produces anywhere between 5-15mg a day of progesterone, so take that into consideration. The reason some may be taking such large doses is because of the route of administration. Orally it may take a lot more to for the body to absorb the necessary amount of progesterone.

The human body is a total balancing act. Too much is bad, and too little is equally bad, so it's all about finding the perfect balance.

I am TRT, but I take 70-80 mg a week, which is far less than many are prescribed. I think its great you all are sharing your own experiences because truth be told most doctors don't really understand what they are doing and just do what they are told so they don't get sued. My father was a urologist, so I was able to see how the system works. He didn't like it, and he really didn't like how it had become profit driven. He has seen how things had changed over his 50 years being a surgeon and doctor. We really need to do our own research nowadays because doctors, at least many of them, aren't doing it, and I believe many became doctors for their ego rather than for their compassion.
May 26, 2021
by: Joy

Hi Brent

Thank you for sharing your story with us and I agree totally with your comments about doctors. Sadly the situation has become 'profit driven'. Gone are the days when our doctors actually cared!

I would just like to point out a few things though. Our Hormone Testing page gives the correct ranges for all hormones, male and female.

I wouldn't suggest Clomid, it can cause cancer in females, probably males too, see here and here. It is given to females with fertility problems. As far as I understand it has not been approved by the FDA for use in males.

Strange that you say that high doses of progesterone are not good. Those suffering from TBI are given 1200mg per day. Those suffering from severe depression and psychotic tendencies are given as much as 2400mg per day.

Progesterone therapy isn't easy, one has to experiment to see what works for you best.

May you go from strength to strength.
Aug 18, 2022
 Could it be...
by: DK

that the bulk of the increase in T was due to you stopping the statins???

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