Natural Progesterone How long will it take to help heavy bleeding?

(Dallas, Texas, USA)

I am a 50 yr old female, still ovulating but going thru peri-menopause and becoming very week from blood loss. I also have fibrocystic breast disease.

I have become severaly anemaic (ferritin of 5, hemoglobin of 8.3) due to irratic hormones and periods lasting 25 days losing up to 180grams/day of blood. I may have a 10-11 day break and then start bleeding againg.

I have ruled out any more serious issues, via sonomgrams and MRI.

I am now taking oral iron to offset the blood loss. I am working with a dr on running hormone tests. I have started the natural progesterone cream at 200mg 4 times per day. My dr also implants progesterone pellets with much success for decades. I may do that.

I started the cream 4 days ago.
How long until I should notice a change for the better?
Do I expect it to help regulate my period or will it stop the bleeding?
Will the cream decrease any excess estrogen?

I appreciate in advance your help.

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Apr 17, 2012
Natural Progesterone How long will it take to help heavy bleeding?
by: Wray

Hi there Well your doctor seems to know progesterone will help, amazing. I have found 400mg/day is normally required, but if you've been given the 800mg/day please stick with that. It usually works within days at stopping the bleeding. But you might consider taking 2000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine too. This inhibits the MMPs which cause excessive bleeding, we have more info about this on our Menstruation page. Plus you might like to read these comments here for encouragement. Please avoid the implants, as these are often a progestin, not progesterone. Unfortunately the term progesterone is used for both. You might find the 800mg/day stops all bleeding, ie your cycle won't occur. This is not dangerous, but if you want it back again you will have to reduce the amount. Please do this very slowly, otherwise symptoms come back again, take a few weeks, if not months to do it. The amount of progesterone you've been given will most definitely decrease excess oestrogen! I wish all doctors would do this. We do have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. We do have a page on Breast Tenderness and another on Breast Cysts. Often a lack of iodine is the cause, there's an explanation on the pages I've given. Take care Wray

Apr 17, 2012
More detail :)
by: Anonymous

Thank you for your reply. I love your enthusiasm!

Here's a little more info you may find of interest.

My vaginal sono's have shown I am still ovulating, therefore I have not reached menopause. They also have ruled out fibroid tumors and any uteran abnormalities.

As of last night, my bleeding started to decrease rather dramatically (from 5 g/hr to 1g/3 hrs) so that is good! My suspicion is this last bleed pattern is following what used to be my typcial menstrual cycle and flow, so perhaps the progesterone is starting to work and restore my cycle. My progesterone levels are raising, see levels below. My dr says he wants me at 5.0

I do take an iodine supplement every day. 75 mcg which appears to be 50% of RDA.

The progesterone implants are bioidentical, made from the wild yams or soy, and compounded at a Rx. My dr has used these in BHRT for decades with much success and prefers them over cream. Not a lot of Drs are experienced in BHRT progesterone pellets, as I understand it.

My Dr is amazing. He is in his 80s, a graduate of Yale Medical School in early 1960's, and a pioneer of BHRT. He definately knows his stuff. He has been recommended for the Nobel Peace Prize around his work with Yale and BHRT and has applied for a patent regarding management of Breast Cancner with BHRT. He is also the first dr in Texas, maybe US to perform laparoscopy. A true pioneer!

I am very organic/natural (no Rx in more than 10 years) and like to do a lot of research. My primary OBGYN wanted to start me on the birth control pill to stop by bleeding. I sought the BHRT alternative.

I like your site and find it is good to get much input for consideration.

My serum levels just came in from last week and have beeen faxed to my dr. here are the levels...i'd appreciate your thoughts, as well.

Lipid Panel
Cholesterol 188
Triglycerides 70
HDL 65
Calculated LDL Chol 109
Risk Ratio LDL/HDL 1.68

Cortisol, Random 6
Progesteron 2.9
Free T4 1.16
Free T3 2.6
C-Reactive Proten <.5
DHEA Sulfate 200
CA125 8
CA27.29 17.6
Vitamin D, 25 OH 48

Glucose 90
Bun 10
Creatinine non-african american .6
eGFR non-african 106
Caluculated bun/creat 17
sodium 138
potassium 4.1
chloride 106
carbon dioxide 25
calcium 9.2
protein, total 6.4
albumin 4.3
calculted globulin 2.1
calculated a/g ratio 2.0
bilirubin, total .3
alkaline phosphatase 61
sgot (AST) 14
sgpt (ALT) 14

*Taking 200 mg / day liquid iron due to anemia from extended bleeding. improving counts from a low hemoglobin of 8.1

WBC 4.9
RBC 3.41
Hemoglobin 9.3
hematocrit 29.7
MCV 87.1
mchc 31.3
rdw 13.7
neutriphils 63
lymphocytes 25
monocytes 9
easinophils 2
basophils 2
platelet count 312

Thanks in advance for your review and input!!!!

All my best to you and thanks for all you do.

Apr 17, 2012
More detail :)
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks for the kind words! I'm delighted the bleeding has reduced so much, it should do on the amount you've been given. Interesting that he's making progesterone implants, sounds an amazing man. I still don't think them as good as a cream, the one great advantage over all the other Delivery systems, is it can be used anywhere. It's particularly good for immediate relief of pain, ie a wound or burn, exceptional for burns. Piles respond to topical application, the vagina too, if dryness or inflammation is a problem, and more. The face responds well too, see here. We do have a page on Hormone Testing. It doesn't cover all the tests you've given above, as I've concentrated on the issues which I feel are the most important to health. Some of the tests only indicate a problem, but don't give any indication of what it could be. Strange they didn't do FSH or LH, the two hormones which rise in Peri-menopause and give an indication of how near menopause we are. And no oestrogen or testosterone either. All of your tests that I know are within normal range. Pity about the oestrogen, as I like to look at the ratio between that and progesterone. I've found a ratio of P:E2 over 600:1 results in greater health, less adverse symptoms. We've found this from Saliva Tests we run. Your vitamin D is better than most I've seen but it could be higher. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml and not the 30ng/ml most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council and GrassrootsHealth websites. Take care Wray

Apr 18, 2012
More... :)
by: Anonymous

Thank you so much again. I find your responses very thoughtful, helpful and reassuring. Your readers are lucky to have you as a resource!

I wanted to add a bit more info in response to your latest post. And I have a few more questions, as well :)

My understanding is my Dr wanted to run the DHEA, Cortisol and Progesterone tests first so we can see if there are root cause issues to the bleeding. I was wondering as well why he waited on estrogen tests, but he said he'd run those after we get the Progesterone where he wanted it.I will also ask about the LH and FSH.

1-He wants my progesterone level at a 5.0 (currently at 2.9 from a low of 1.2 few weeks back). What serum levels do you like to see in peri-menopausal woman?

2-I am continuing to use the cream. I like it for the many reasons you mention and am using it on different areas of my body for each applciation. I look quite young for my age and have very few wrinkles. But the one I do have seems to be more shallow vs deep with just a few applications of the cream. My hair seems to be darkening, which I like. Have you known anyone to see a change in their hair color from BHRT progesterone?

2-I read somewhere on your site that the BHRT "wild yam" cream is not structurally the same as progesterone, which makes sense. I thought you also said , it doesn't increase progestrone levels. I likely misunderstood. My progesterone levels are increasing on BHRT progesterone. And I believe you said my excess Estrogen should decrease. Can you explain how this cream is working to achieve these results?

3-I have never taken any synthetic hormones or anything else that would knowingly alter my progesterone. if my DHEA & Cortisol are normal what would be the explanation for the low Progesterone levels? Does there have to be a root cause other than age, that I should be looking for, such as cholesterol?

Other thoughts...
I'll have to do the math to calculate cost of BHRT progesterone cream vs pellet once I see how long the BHRT pregesterone pellets last. The cost is $40/per pellet. They are 50 mg/pellet. Most women need about 100-200 mg implants. There is a $180 implant fee. So for 200 mg the cost is around $340. If they last 6 months then the cost is roughly $55/month. If they last 3 months then the coast is $110/month. My Dr's experience is some women never have to implant more pellets (this doesn't make sense to me). I will likely try the pellets. That said, I really like the cream and not a fan of minor surgery. I am just thankful to have natural options!!!!

Good call on the Vitamin D. I have raised my level by 10 points (from 38 to 48) in just a few weeks by increasing my drop from 5K IU to 10k IU. I will continue on this dosage long-term. Interesting to note I have been taking 5k UI for at least a year now, and my level are not optimal. Making the case for 10k IU / day.

Look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks again so much. :)

Apr 19, 2012
More... :)
by: Wray

Hi there You do say the kindest things! It's important to me people understand fully what's happening and what to do about it naturally. As I've said twice now, your doctor is truly amazing, I wish there were more like him. Giving you 800mg/day stopped you from suffering the sometimes awful Oestrogen Dominance symptoms most women suffer from. The normal recommended amount is 20-40mg/day, this keeps some in permanent oestrogen dominance. They put on huge amounts of weight too, and feel miserable. Interestingly Dr Dalton used high amounts for her patients, and they never suffered from it. There are so many Progesterone Misconceptions that I did this page on them, more in self defence, as I always recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. Some women accuse me of trying to sell more of our product by saying this, which is untrue. I answer all queries, no matter what brand or delivery system they use, as I'm answering you. Now to some answers for you. The route cause of excess bleeding is excess oestrogen, explained in that menstruation page I gave you. This is why I like to see the test results. Serum levels of progesterone in P-M women are impossible to predict, as they fluctuate so much. In pre-menopausal women during the luteal phase they range from 5 to 20 ng/ml, although I have seen studies which say it goes up to 40ng/ml. To my mind the more the better! We do have a page on Hormone Testing you could look through. I've only heard once about darkening hair, and that from a man! Yam creams contain diosgenin, the precursor plant sterol. The molecule of this is different and has to be changed in a lab to the progesterone molecule. The body cannot convert it into progesterone, not even if we eat the yam. So it won't increase progesterone levels. Progesterone is made from many different plant sterols, yams being but one. You are using progesterone, not diosgenin, hence the increase in your levels. Your low progesterone levels are due to lack of ovulation. Unless we ovulate our levels remain very low, ie at follicular levels which are generally <1ng/ml. This progesterone comes from the adrenals, brain and glial cells, we always make it in these regions. But it's insufficient to counter excess oestrogen. The pellets seem excessively costly to me, but I don't know how much you are paying for the cream to make a comparison. Plus I would also object to having the surgery! If they are only 50mg and you need 100-200mg, that's not going to give you much per day, over a 3 or 6 month time span. I recommend 100-200mg/day! Pleased you've increased the vitamin D. Take care Wray

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