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Hawthorn and Hawthorn Extract cause of bleeding/spotting?

by Evie
(FL)

I just started using Hawhtorn and Harthorn Extract for heart palpitations. It has helped, but now I had an early period and have been spotting for 13 days. Could the hawthorn be the cause of the spotty bleed?

I have upped my dosage of NATPRO to 200 mg a day. I cut back because I was doing so well in the prior months, and then I got sick, then my father got sick for a month with bronchitis. I then started having heart palpitations that came on with a vengeance and now everything is out of whack. I am my Father's full-time caregiver and worry about him a lot.

I'm just trying to figure out where the short 14 day cycle came from, and why I'm having continual spotting now. I saw my gyno last year and there was a 1.5cm fibroid that they were not concerned about. HE gave me BC pills, which I did not take. I immediately took NATPRO higher dosage and everything was fine for 5 months. I have had two polyps removed over the years, but none were found last year. So I doubt that could be the cause.

Am I correct to chalk this episode up to stress, and not enough NatPRO... or is it the Hawthorn that has done something, or a combination of all! I'm so confused! Any other adivce is most welcome.

PS Father is doing better, and now I'm trying to work on getting ME better.
Evie

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Apr 30, 2023
 A bit more info
by: Evie

I am 47 going on 48 this July.

I started to notice serious problems last February after a particularly stressful time for me. I had back to back periods, and the Gyno put me on progesterone pills, which I did not take. Instead, I started to research natural progesterone, which lead me here. From that point I started using Natpro with my cycle until I all settled down. Hot flashes diminished, cycle length restored to 24-26 days, period length 3-5 days and they were a lot easier and lighter to tolerate. Once thing settled down, I started to take less Progesterone and it held me for several months until the high stress and illnesses occurred that I mentioned above.
I only started to notice that something was wrong when I started having horrible heart palpitations and thought I was having AFIB, and my BP went up.
I started taking Taurine, L-Arginine, Magnesium, and Hawthorn Extract (the top flower part and the leaves, which is said to be anti-arrythmia), also started taking a two pills of Hawthorn Berry 556 mg each, and that is when I started what I thought was a 14 Day Cycle as mentioned above.
It started as a light flow and never picked up. Just spotting, and about day 5 I thought it had stopped, but then the next day it started spotting again. And now it is getting slightly heavier, so I wonder if I am actually starting my period, or starting another period.
I am so confused!
Also wanted to mention that last year I have a uterine biopsy just to be sure of things and it came back clean. Also the pap came back clean.
Still wondering if Hawthorn played a role, or it was just stress and lack of progesterone.

As stated I have upped my dosage to 200 mg a day. I feel better, but still working through this odd period non-period thing. Is it coming or going? I don't know yet!

I have NAC, Calcium-D gluc, and Citrus Bioflavonoids, B complex, and a Gaia Thyroid Support. Is this something I should begin to take?

Admittedly those nice months I was doing well and feeling good I slacked off everything.

I am staying on Taurine and L-Arginine for the heart, but would like to know what you all think of the Hawthorn. I feel it helped, but I don't know if it aggravated the uterus.
May 01, 2023
 Hawthorn and Hawthorn Extract cause of bleeding/spotting?
by: Joy

HI Evie

You 'chalked' it up perfectly. It's possible that the Hawthorn caused the bleed but you are in Peri-Menopause which starts at around 35. Didn't your doctor tell you this? Progesterone levels drop sharply while estrogen remains the same and there starts the hormonal war which you are now experiencing. Add stress to the mix, boom!!

The stress of your father caused both progesterone and vitamin D3 levels to drop.  When dealing with Stress it is always recommended to increase the amount of progesterone and D3 while going through stressful times.  The drop caused estrogen to become dominant and cause heart palpitations. Your hormones became all messed up which would explain the bleed etc, plus peri-menopause.   Increasing Natpro was a good thing but you may need to use more.  I see that you are taking most of the heavy/continual bleeding protocol recommended, except not enough Natpro. It has helped so many women.

400-600mg Natpro Progesterone Cream per day
2000mg N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC) per day
2000mg Taurine per day
5000iu's Vitamin D3 per day
1000mg Bioflavanoids per day

Heart palpitations can be a scary thing.  Excess estrogen probably caused it as it became dominant and not progesterone, please see Estrogen Dominance. Estrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia, Torsades de Pointes and sudden death. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here,  

Fibroids are caused from oxidative stress, you need to address the Inflammation. Progesterone will definitely help but if the inflammation is not addressed you may battle. They can be surgically removed, but the inflammation remains the problem, they will return.  Fermented foods help greatly with inflammation, especially sauerkraut, kefir milk/water and kombucha.  

My advice would be to leave the hawthorn and work on getting your progesterone level back up again.  See if the 200mg helps, if not increase until you find a level that suits you.  I do feel that you need to follow the protocol though to deal with the continual bleeding.  Once under control, progesterone can be reduced.  

Please make sure that your Vitamin D3 level is within range.  A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone.

I am pleased that your father is much better, but as you say, time to look after yourself.

Best wish.
May 01, 2023
 Thank you and 2 more Questions
by: Anonymous

Joy,

Thank you so much for the reply and the encouragement. Looking back over the years, I believe I started experiencing these symptoms in my late 30’s to early forties during stressful times. I am so thankful, I found this website, and so thankful to Wray and you and all the knowledge and sage advice given to struggling, frustrated ladies.

My Doctors never once said anything to me about perimenopause. All they have done is prescribe BP meds (which I don’t need) and BC pills, (which I don’t need or want).

I will implement this protocol and bump up the progesterone beyond 200mg if needed. And take the other supplements mentioned. The pages on inflammation and stress are so very helpful and it sound just like what I need! I have also started taking Bragg’s Vinegar with the ‘mother’. I hear that is good for fibroids and blood sugar.

Quick couple of questions:
1) How much Calcium D-Glucarate is recommended? Mine is 200mg per pill.

2) And what are your thoughts on Broccoli Sprout Extract to help the liver metabolize estrogen better? I was thinking of using this and/or Milk Thistle. Or is Cal-D-Gluc better than those two.

Thank you once again. I really believe I can get my train back on the tracks. I cannot believe how many years I have suffered off and on with this not knowing what it was. There were times when I seriously thought I was dying with some of these symptoms.

Much appreciation,
Evie
May 02, 2023
 Thank you and 2 more questions
by: Joy

Hi Evie

You started to experience symptoms in your late 30's. That is exactly when Peri-Menopause starts and explains so much. I just don't get that doctors don't test for it or know how important it is to women! It's beyond madness.

Apple cider vinegar is excellent, I take it every day. In fact I am now making my own. You do, however, need other fermented foods as mentioned. I can't say that I have heard that it helps with fibroids, although it does help to fight inflammation.

Regarding CdG. That would depend on your and your symptoms. So start on the RDA and work from there. Broccoli sprouts are so good for one. I see nothing wrong with eating it. I personally take milk thistle. Again, if it works for you then continue with it.
May 07, 2023
 It worked!
by: Evie

It's been three days and the bleeding and spotting stopped. I am on 240mg of Progesterone. 120 in the morning, 120 at night. And I followed the protocol as closely as I could. When I added the K2 I think it helped stop the spotting.

I'll be sticking with the 240mg for a month or two and then see if I can cut back. I am using NATPRO for the 50+50=100 mg doses. And LifeFlo for the two 20mg doses. How much should I start to cut back? 10mg at a time over a certain number of weeks, how many weeks?

Thanks so much!
Evie
May 08, 2023
 It worked!
by: Joy

Yahoo!!! I am delighted to hear this Evie, that is awesome. Thanks for following the protocol. Vitamin K2 is a given, it is one of the most important cofactors when taking vitamin D3. I find it fascinating how nutrients work together with progesterone, and of course, if progesterone is used correctly, bingo!

I agree, stick with the 240mg and reduce it when you feel stable enough to do so. Please bear in mind that any kind of stressful situation, trauma etc reduces the benefits of progesterone and D3. They should be increased during stressful times.

Yes, reduce by 10mg, stay on the reduced amount for a week then reduce again. Continue until you find a level that suits you. For you I suggest 200mg going forward. However if you feel like experimenting, continue reducing. Never use less than 100mg per day.

Please keep us posted. It helps others who may be reading this.

Many thanks.
May 09, 2023
 Thanks!
by: Evie

Hi Joy,
Yes, I think I should stay on 200mg a day no matter what.

Thank you for all the help.

Oh, and about the Vinegar for fibroids... I was mistaken. It was for ovarian cysts. I get those functional ones that come and go on their own. The vinegar and molasses combo seem to help them go bye-bye. Just wanted to clarify it for others.

Also, I just saw something curious about fibroids and Nattokinase. "A potent all-natural proteolytic enzyme that supports dissolving adhesions (including fibroids, polyps, and cysts) and aids in the reduction of fibroid and polyp formation." A lady is selling 100mg of Nattokinase as part of a "Fibroid" kit. I was wondering if you or anybody else knows if Natto is capable of the claims she makes. I would post a link, but I don't know if that's allowed since it's a product page.
May 10, 2023
 Thanks
by: Joy

Hi Evie

Thanks for clearing that up.  Interesting about the vinegar and molasses.  Anything natural is good for me.  Personally I used to be plagued with cysts on my ovaries and breasts.  In my case, it was caused by excess estrogen.  Once I eleminated as much estrogen from my body as possible, things improved drastically.  So much so that I have never had cysts again.  That was about 18 years ago now.  

Nattokinase is the enzyme extracted from natto, a fermented Japanese food, and has obviously no soy in it at all. Nattokinase has fibrinolytic activity, i.e. it prevents blood clots from growing. Clots are formed from fibrin, so it is possible it could help the fibroids. Although I can't find any studies on PubMed or Google Scholar regarding it's efficacy against them. Nattokinase also has anti-hypertensive and anti-platelet properties, a couple of studies have been done on this aspect. This page here says "....people today use it for reducing pain and treating a number of other disorders such as chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, uterine fibroids, infertility, cancer, muscle spasms, beriberi and hemorrhoids. However, it must be remembered that these usages are based on anecdotal reports..." Both the EGCG and the lycopene are antioxidants, but I don't know if they are specifically good for fibroids or not.  Try it, if it works then great but the gut needs to be healed.

Fibroids as mentioned on this post, as well as Endometriosis, PCOS are all caused by oxidative stress.  To my mind, fermented foods are needed and used successfully.

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