Questions for Wray

by Lynne
(Florida )

Hi Wray!! I've been using Nat Pro since October and have finally started to get my Estrogen Dominance under control. My doctor does all the testing but he doesn't link all the symptoms together for us like you do. He is concerned about my weight, my water retention, and now my high blood pressure (I am 47 and this is the first time I've ever had a weight issue or high blood pressure). He sees that my progesterone was low (its just coming into balance), my Vitamin D was ridiculously low, I have migranes (better now), major water retention, high blood pressure (like 153/106 sometimes!!! And its the worse when I first wake up) AND he had me take a 4 hour glucose tolerance test and he has diagnosed me with Insulin Resistance, and that is the main thing I want to ask you about.

I have always been super healthy, LOVE exercise, LOVE fruits and vegetables, but this doctor seems fixated on my diet as the cause of all of my problems. I have never been one to skip meals or go too long without eating. I started crying in his office out of frustration and he said I didn't have to do his diet.. .well, I don't MIND the diet- its just that its so similar to how I've been eating my entire life that I know its not the cause of my problems. However, I do think I could have insulin resistence because of the estrogen dominance I had, my low Progesterone, my low testoterone (it was 8 if that means anything), my low Vitamin D, and my high blood pressure. He wanted to put me on blood pressure medicine but I declined for now- my mom said, "if you think you are tired NOW, wait and see what blood pressure pills will do!" But I am open to pills that may reduce all the fluid in my system.

Okay- here are my questions:
1. I just ordered two bags of your Energy Formula and my husband is going to take it with me. My doctor said absolutely no juice, not even the kind that is 100 percent juice, but I really think juice is the easiest way to take this. Being that the 4 teaspoons of Energy Formula is to help me with my Insulin Resistance, is it okay to stir it into some juice? Or will this totally ruin what the doctor wants me to do?

2. I have gained a significant amount of weight in the last six months- about 30 lbs... I started following my doctor's diet on Feb 25 and when I went back this past week (March 11)- I had put on 4 1/2 lbs in two weeks. I really don't think its the diet- I think its my body's reaction to food. Its a very common sense diet, three main meals, snacks in between, never eat fruit without having a protein with it, no grains for the time being, etc. If I am insulin resistance, does that mean whatever I eat will be stored as fat? It sure feels like it! But in your opinion, is eating every 3-4 hours necessary to combat this disorder? What else can I do?

4. I already started the Vitamin D3-he recommended 1 2000mg tablet per day... and I am doing 3 of those, 1 with each meal to get 6000 mg which I think is more in line with you. :) He also told me to take Chromium GTF (he said the other chromiums do not work)- what is your opinion of this?

5. My thyroid tests come back in range but I think my thyroid is being compromised due to the Vitamin D deficiency and the estrogen dominance. I know there's an antibody test for the thyroid- should I get that test now or just concentrate on these other things?

5. And last, but not least- the results of my Oral Glucose Tolerance Test... I fasted for 12 hours and my initial reading was 87. I drank the sugary orange drink they gave me and 1/2 hr later, my glucose was 79. That is a weird response to straight sugar, right? It means my body is producing way more insulin than necessary, right? 1 hr later my glucose was 85. THEN (this is the weirdest part), 2 hours after drinking the sugar, my glucose was 125- that is the only reading that was out of range and I guess this is what is supposed to happen immediately after sugar. 3 hours after my glucose was 84 and 4 hours after my glucose was 86. Is this insulin resistance or is it something else? I would love to know if you have heard of this kind of reading and what it means. My doctor just says that I could become a diabetic but I don't think that's correct... I blame whatever is happening on my hormones.

Ultimately, I may have to get another doctor- a WOMAN... when he first tested my progesterone he said it wasn't low because I was in the mid-follicular phase... but I was clearly in the ovulation phase and I had to practically show him my menstrual cycle on a chart for him to see that.. geez, men!!

thank you for everything Wray!! You are a bright and shining light for all of us women. (I am 47 and still have regular periods if you need that information... I stopped using the birth control pill last year- the BEST thing I've done in a very long time!!)

Much Love- Lynne

Comments for Questions for Wray

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Mar 17, 2013
Questions for Wray
by: Wray

Hi Lynne Thanks for trying the Natpro, but like your doctor, I'm also concerned about your weight, water retention, and high blood pressure. You shouldn't have any of these, so it appears you're not using enough. You don't say, but I feel you should be using no less than 200mg/day, possibly 400mg/day, are you? Progesterone is an excellent diuretic, given to Traumatic Brain Injury victims to reduce or prevent any oedema forming. Water retention can be caused by excess oestrogen, which does increase BP. Obviously water causes 'weight gain', although not permanent, but oestrogen can also cause fat cells to proliferate, which takes longer to get rid of. If using too little progesterone it stimulates oestrogen, which can lead to those symptoms you have, including the high BP. You say your testosterone was 8, but I don't know if it was a serum or saliva test. Or whether your lab used the metric system or the SI system for the result. We do have a page on Hormone Testing you could look through. In both cases it's low, but to my mind a good thing, testosterone causes Insulin Resistance, so too does oestrogen, and so too does a low vitamin D level. So I wouldn't be surprised if you had it. You say your Vitamin D was ridiculously low, which would fit. But you don't say how low it was. It should be between 70-100ng/ml, mine is 92ng/ml. You're not taking enough to get it up high quickly. Please have another test done to check your level now. Then I can suggest how much to take. Low vitamin D also causes weight gain. Both Progesterone and Vitamin D can help Migraines. Strictly speaking you shouldn't have any juice if you have IR and weight gain. I take the formula daily too, I know I have mild IR which has been helped hugely by the formula, but I can't take it in water! I put it in about 50ml juice only and gulp it down. My brother and other friends can, but not me. One friend has hers in a very large glass of water and says it's fine like that. The energy formula has the chrome in it, you don't need to take more. It also has 5000iu vitamin D3. I don't think you need another test for your thyroid now. Continued below

Mar 17, 2013
Questions for Wray Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Lynne I had the GTT, never again! I ended up shivering so violently, even the blanket they gave me didn't help! Your fasting level was in normal range, it's given on that hormone testing page I've given you. Your pancreas responded with a huge surge to bring your level down lower than it had been, then it seems to have given up. Which is why your sugar shot up again. A strange reading I agree. Impaired fasting glucose or IR has a range between 100-125mg/dL, diabetes >126mg/dL. There's no single test for IR, but several pointers are used, all on that testing page. Very relieved you're off the Contraceptives! And now to the diet. You don't say what you are now eating, but that it's similar to what you had been. If you have IR and weight gain, then you have to avoid all grains, legumes, processed milk and sweet, starchy fruits and vegetables. In fact it's best to avoid all fruit (modern fruit is just a bag of sugar water) and eat only green leafy veggies, including things like broccoli, cauliflower, celery etc. Plus fish, meat, chicken and eggs. Sugars and large meals drop progesterone levels, see here. Plus insulin drops levels too, see here. And use only the good fats like MCT oil (an extract of coconut oil), coconut oil, butter, olive and macadamia oil. The first three are saturated fats, the other two mono-unsaturated fats, avoid all the polyunsaturated and trans fats. We do have a page on Nutrition, on it you'll find three eating plans, all good, the variety is to give people a choice. There is a forth diet not on the site yet. It's called the Ketogenic diet, and in it's strictest form is very difficult to adhere to. But this is usually only used for people with epilepsy and cancer, which it does help. The reason being it reduces glucose levels to the barest minimum, and the body uses ketones for energy. It's a very high fat, moderate to low protein and very low carb. Only the good fats should be used, i.e. those mentioned above. The best is the MCT oil. The body converts the fatty acid into ketones, in fact the brain does better on these than glucose. MCT oil forms ketones more efficiently than the other oils. The diet varies from a 4:1 ratio of fat to protein/carb down to a 1:1 ratio which is the easier to follow. The best and clearest explanation I've found of the 1:1 is this web site on the Basic Ketogenic Diet. Bless you for the kind words, and love to you too, take care Wray

Mar 17, 2013
More Questions for Wray
by: Lynne

Thanks for responding Wray! You are indeed gifted in relaying information! When I initially wrote to you back in October 2012, I was so ridiculously Estrogen Dominant that I had just about every symptom in the book, mainly the migraine headaches, no energy, and my B12 was 100 on a scale of 150-900. My ob/gyn, bless her heart, wanted to try estrogen patches ON TOP OF THE PILL to alleviate the symptoms. That's when I decided I had to take matters into my own hands and become my own health advocate. She kept asking me if I was losing hair- NO! If I have vaginal dryness-NO!! If I was unable to sleep at night-absolutely NO!! All I was doing was sleeping!! I told her that I was Estrogen Dominant and would like to try Progesterone cream and she told me that I was getting progesterone in my birth control pill. Its crazy out there in the medical world... and its sad because there are some people who are well-meaning. They are so busy seeing 40 patients per day that they don't have time to look out of the box and see that most of their patients are saying the same things and the medical solutions are not working. I refused to be on pain pills and antidepressants just to 'get through' the tale end of my reproductive years!!

In response to your response (this will probably take several posts!!):
* I use approximately 2 teaspoons of Nat Pro per day. A tube lasts me a good 10 days and then by the 11th or 12th day, I am cutting it open and getting the very last bit. I have the luxury of being a stay-at-home wife (we have a cat rescue so there's no shortage of work... I just get to stay at home to do it) so if I get a headache, I put a little extra on my head... if I get a pimple, I put some on the pimple... cramps? then my stomach... but for the most part, I do 1 teaspoon in the AM and one after my PM bath. I have open tubes in a few different places- if my husband starts to stress me out, I reach for my tube in the kitchen and put a little bit on my neck or shoulders. :) I put it everywhere and am constantly trying out new places- its very random but I think its okay.

*My doctor uses blood work (not saliva) and he reads his tests based on the Menstrual/Ovulation Phase. When I first went to him in October, I had JUST started using Nat Pro the week before so I will never know what my levels were before that- my guess is zero based on the symptoms.

CONTINUED BELOW..

Mar 17, 2013
More Questions for Wray Part 2
by: Lynne

My first progesterone test was on Day 14, Ovulation Phase with a range of .8-3.0ng/mL My test was <.8 He required another test because he was reading it as the Mid-Follicular Phase which has a range of .2-1.4 ng/mL and he mistakently thought my level was in the middle of that range. I think he got Mid-Follicular and Mid-Cycle mixed up. My second test was taken on Day 24, which is the last week of my Luteal Phase- the range is 1.7 - 27 ng/mL and my level was 1.52. BUT that was back in October. I've been using 2 teaspoons per day faithfully since then and haven't been retested. Do you think I should? Or just wait for now?

* I am still retaining water but its better. My fat cells definitely used my Estrogen Dominance (I was probably E.D. for 6-8 months, based on symptoms)to proliferate, consumate, multiply... basically, my fat cells are still having an all out party on my thighs!! I've always been small in the torso, and there's definitely fat there now, but its mainly on my thighs- I don't even recognize them! I'll get back to fat/weight in a moment...

* I just had a follow up visit to my doctor this past Monday (March 11th) and he ordered tests for for Estrodiol, Vitamin D, Vitamin b12, and Free Testoterone. All blood tests-

-In October, my estradiol(s) was almost 1,000 pg/mL and now it is 314.7 so Nat Pro, plus no birth control pill is working! Doctor said he would like it to be about 100 but its so much better.

-My Vitamin D was 25 OH TOT (do not know what those numbers mean) and the range is 30-150 ng/mL. Dr. recommended one 2000 mg supplement per day. I've been doing 3 of those, so 6000 mg PLUS on Saturday, I started your Energy Formula... so that's 11,000 mgs per day- is that good for now? Too much? Too little? When should I retest since my last test was just a week ago? The problem is that he didn't link the Vitamin D

My B12 is now 983!! That's through the roof and the only thing i did was stop taking the pill five months ago!
CONTINUED BELOW


Mar 17, 2013
More Questions for Wray Part 3
by: Lynne

My TOTAL testosterone (dr. just had me do a FREE TEST but it's a 'send off' test)is 8 ng/dL and the range for a female over age 19 is 8-60 ng/dL. This is my only test. test so nothing to compare it to.

* The ENERGY FORMULA is painless in 4 oz of Cranberry Juice but if you think I should try to switch to water, I will. I really want to get my Insulin Resistance (if that is what it is) under control and am 150 percent committed so please tell me what you think. I could even do 2 oz of cranberry juice and 2 oz of water. I don't want to do anything to make my insulin rise.

* The fact that sugar went down after drinking the sugary drink during the GTT but was still in a normal range means what? And the fact that glucose rose to an unhealthy level 2 hours later means what? Just that my pancreas gave up? Because it definitely went down to normal levels within the next hour. Regardless, it means at some point, my system was flooded with insulin and I equate that to storing fat. Bad! Could it be that I have a slow response to sugar? Maybe at 1/2 hour and 1 hour my body didn't realize I had drank the sugar? Just throwing some ideas out there...

* I've always ate a healthy, balanced diet based on current medical information (whatever that is worth). My mom grew up on a farm so she taught us to never eat processed foods, and I gave up all white sugar/flour in 2006 when I realized I could eat 10 gluten free cookies and feel fine. My norm (prior to Estrogen Dominance when I was effortlessly 115 lbs) was meat (we went organic and hormone free a couple of years ago),brown rice or a yam, and steamed broccoli or something similar. In October, when my Estrogen Dominance reached a peak, I cut out all grains, legumes, dairy... initially, I was a little less bloated but my body fat never waivered. But I also decreased my meat intake (mainly because I just didn't have a taste for it) and survived mainly on vegetables and fruits. I still ate meat, but probably not enough. My dinner was sometimes a salad made up of various greens, including spinach and kale, a few tomatoes, a few green olives, a few black olives, sliced avocado (I am addicted to avocado- could eat 3 per day but I don't), sliced strawberries, raw sunflower seeds, and then a variety of raw vegetables like cucumber and yellow squash with balsamic vinegar for dressing- maybe extra virgin olive oil some days. I also continued to eat yams cooked on the grill with a little cinnamon and Smart Balance, but no brown rice ever. The doctor's diet is similar except that I have to have protein for every meal and every snack- he advocates dairy and I think he said no nuts or seeds. This past visit he said he wanted me to add brown rice and yams and go vegan two days per week... I gained 4 1/2 lbs after being on his FIRST diet for two weeks and that's just by adding dairy, so sorry, I'm not going to follow his advice.

CONTINUED BELOW

Mar 17, 2013
More Questions for Wray Part 4
by: Lynne

*When I was reading your reply about the Ketonic Diet I had an 'A HA" moment because lately I've been thinking of doing the Caveman Diet, which I think is kind of what you do, minus the juice with the Energy Formula. I read through the link you provided for the Ketone Diet and I think I can do it; I am committed to solve this problem and come out a winner on the other side!! I think this will solve the insulin problem, the fat problem, the water problem (as fruit holds onto water), and the blood pressure problem. The doctor's diet has a lot of rules about when to eat and magical 'chemical' combinations and even though I was eating fruit by itself, I really don't think eating fruit WITH a protein is the answer. And he recommends 5 pieces of fruit per day- just no bananas. Tonight I made a roast for the family, which included potatoes and vegetables and I only had the roast and some onions and celery, so I am already starting it. Fat cells on my thighs- listen up because I am coming for YOU!

*What is your opinion on exercise? I teach group exercise classes- used to teach about 10 per week but now only teach 2 due to my health and the way I feel (and the way I look in workout clothes... sorry I do have some vanity!) Most of those classes were hardcore cardio classes, lots of sweat, lots of jumping, and working at a high heart rate. After everything I have read, now I'm afraid I am increasing cortisol as I know the workouts are stressful on the body- but I thought this was good. Would love your opinion! Should I add walking or a light cardio? Should I add more weight training? I feel SO weak when I do lift weights and I never seem to gain any muscle or get any stronger so it seems like a waste of time. I have hope that will change with my Vitamin D going up and the Caveman Diet I started today.

I whole heartedly believe that God LOVES us and wants us to enjoy our lives so we can help each other. He never in a million years intended for us to spend our entire day counting calories and watching the clock to make sure we are eating on time or not too close together, or combos of food, etc...I am blood Type 0 negative and according to that school of thought, I should be eating like a caveman also. But I am also an animal lover and could see myself becoming a vegetarian caveman one day once all of this is remedied (if that is even possible).

Looking forward to your reply!

Mar 18, 2013
More Questions for Wray
by: Wray

Hi Lyne Love your humour! Where do I start though! You are right, the whole medical profession needs a complete overhaul. They have to treat too many people leaving no time to study. And what they do pick up is always from drug companies, I get very frustrated by it all. You say you are using 2 tsp Natpro per day which would give you 330mg/day progesterone. But then you say you are using a tube in 10-12 days, which means you are using anywhere between 166mg to 200mg/day. So the 'teaspoon' you're using is not a standard 5ml spoon, but smaller. Like you I have about 5 tubes open around the house and one in my bag so I have some if I go out! I always keep some by the stove as it's wonderful for burns. Joy a distributor of ours is fearless about using it on others. One Christmas in a busy shopping mall, an elderly woman with arthritis was knocked over by a trolley. She was screaming in pain, so Joy rushed over, grabbed a startled bystander, and told him to rub the cream anywhere there was bare skin! She calmed down very quickly. Another time she was in the dentist. A cell phone rang, suddenly the young man answering it began crying. He'd just been told his best friend had died in a light plane crash. Well she she gave him some and told him to rub it on. He calmed down very quickly too, in fact said to her in amazement...."s... what's in this stuff"!! I don't think you need another test, but you do need to use more if you still have those symptoms. The weight gain is due to water retention, which is caused by progesterone stimulating oestrogen. Your oestradiol was shockingly high! Thank heavens you came off the pill, and that the progesterone has worked in bringing it down. You say 'My Vitamin D was 25 OH TOT (do not know what those numbers mean)', but you don't give any level. The 25 OH is the scientific name for vitamin D, and I assume the TOT means total. In others words they are combining the D3 and the D2, the D2 is always low and shouldn't be taken into account. Can you find the level for me. 11,000iu per day is a much better dose, have another test in about three months. Contraceptives do lower the B vitamins, so I'm not surprised. Will be interesting to see your free testosterone result, as that's the one that matters, total means nothing. The free testosterone is active and that does have an affect on us. 4oz of juice is 120ml, which is far too much if trying to reduce sugar. Try the water, or do what I do and use only 50ml, which is about 1 1/2oz juice. I can only assume your pancreas panicked with the rise in sugar, sent out too much insulin, which dropped it sharply, then it rose, which indicates all the insulin had been used up. Then the pancreas sent out more but not an excess, which brought it down. I take it your doctor has no explanation? Continued below

Mar 18, 2013
More Questions for Wray part 2
by: Wray

Hi Lynne And yes any glucose not used as energy gets stored as fat. There's info on our Anxiety page about this, and the IR page too. The Caveman diet would probably be the same as the Paleo diet which is what I try to follow. It suits me as I like meat etc, not too keen on the starches, and love salads. But I do use cream in my coffee, and have lots of butter, which is not allowed on the Paleo, as it's against all dairy. I've been giving the Ketogenic diet out to so many recently, that I thought I'd give it a try too. I've been on the Atkins before, and used the ketostix to check for ketones, was very easy to get them to appear. But I wasn't eating then as much fat as the Keto diet suggests. I do use MCT oil in all my cooking, on salads, smoothies etc, and have for years. It's a beautiful oil, I even use it in my bath! I would be interested to hear how you do on it. Well I rarely exercise! I sit glued to my computer early morning to about 9pm, I'm so fascinated by it all I forget to exercise, eat too! Just got a lecture from a friend in London who said I have to start eating, I usually just have another coffee if I feel my blood glucose dropping! So I woke this morning with good resolutions, and have started off well. I think some of the best advise on exercise comes from Dr Mercola, see here. Quite a selection. On the whole nothing beats walking, we're designed for it. Our legs in proportion to our body is far greater than any animal on earth! I can't see cavemen doing cardio work ups! Violent exercise does put the body into Stress mode, not a good thing to my mind. I really love your last para, my thoughts too. We're here to enjoy life and to love and help others, and in doing so love and help ourselves. I love animals too, and was a veggie for 4 yrs, but put on weight and became tired. There's no question I do better on animal protein. If we eat meat we should do what the bushmen do, they bless the animals they kill and thank them. Take care Wray

Mar 18, 2013
quick reply on the Vitamin D
by: Lynne

Good morning Wray- The Vitamin D 25 OH-TOT level was 28.13 on a scale of 30-150 ng/mL. I thought the 25 mixed up with the 28. At any rate, its LOW-and I know I will be feeling better with my 11,000 mgs per day. And once I feel better about my body, I will soak in some natural Vitamin D from the sun... like I said, I'm vain and also I live in the suburbs where all the neighbors talk... I'd rather wait to go out in shorts when they are going to talk positive about me. :)

I will get my Vitamin D retested in 3 months (June) and let you know. I'm guessing I won't need quite as much once I'm sufficient- maybe just whats in the Energy Formula. I'm taking that with water today, and a splash of cranberry juice.

Still need to do some research on the Ketone, Paleo, and Caveman diet but while I learn, I can figure out the obvious of what not to eat... no stevia in my coffee this morning. I can drink it black but it would be awesome with some cream!

I see what you mean by the amount I was using- I am going to switch my spoon to one from the dining room and actually do two full teaspoons per day (330 per day) for the time being. And once I am lean and mean, I'll cut back a little to see if it makes a difference.

When I first started using the cream, it TOTALLY relaxed me. I don't notice it as much now... but it would be awesome to lather on someone who was stressing out. Maybe I will sneak some on hubby. I love your stories about applying to people on the street who need it.

Have a great day- Lynne



Mar 19, 2013
Progesterone for sleep problems, side effects
by: Carolyn EH

My main reason for using progesterone is that my MD believed it would help me sleep more soundly and more than four or five hours a night. I've used so far two tubes of NatPro (about a teaspoon a day) and because I'm way beyond menopause, I assumed I'd need to use it continually throughout any given month.

Two problems have arisen: sleep interrupted anyway because of more bathroom breaks (progesterone as diuretic?), and I've been having irregular, rapid heartbeats at night (is this a possible side effect of progesterone?).

I know this is too short a time to be very concerned, but I'd feel better if I could think these problems were temporary.

Thanks, Wray, for any of your helpful thoughts.

Mar 21, 2013
Progesterone for sleep problems, side effects
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn Thanks for trying the Natpro, you're getting about 170mg/day progesterone if you're using a 5ml teaspoon. Not if it's one used for stirring tea, those can vary from 3ml to 6ml, or 100mg to 200mg/day. It does help sleep, see here, here and here. But it could be you're low in vitamin D, please have a test done, see here and here. Plus a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone, see here, here and here. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. You are correct about using it daily, although it's usual for women to be advised to take a break, pointless as far as I'm concerned. I'm way past Menopause too, and have used it daily for 16 years now, even when I did have regular cycles, as my symptoms came back. You are right, it's such an excellent diuretic it's now given via IV transfusion to Traumatic Brain Injury victims to reduce or prevent any oedema. Continued below

Mar 21, 2013
Progesterone for sleep problems, side effects Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Carolyn And yes and no to the heart beats. The progesterone is stimulating the oestrogen, this can happen initially, in fact more often than not it does. Oestrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia, Torsades de Pointes and sudden death. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Men very rarely have a long QT interval, only women because of all the oestrogen we produce. I suggest increasing the amount to suppress the oestrogen effect. You can reduce back again once it's passed, but please reduce very slowly, as symptoms can come back if too fast. You have probably seen our page on Oestrogen Dominance, but in case not I'm giving it to you. I try to explain about the initial stimulating effect progesterone has. I'm glad you asked me these questions, and not worried over them. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Mar 21, 2013
quick reply on the Vitamin D
by: Wray

Hi Lynne Ah thanks for the vitamin D level, yes it is low. I find that range they give so daft, if 30ng/ml is fine, then why the 150ng/ml?! So I tend to stick with the 70-100ng/ml range, if it's anywhere in that I'm happy. Pity about the neighbours, don't they have anything better to do with their time?! Once you get your level up, the 5000iu in the formula should be fine. Unless you have a dysfunctional gut! So many people do now, it's shocking really, like IBS, Crohn's, ulcerative colitis, celiac disease, and more, and in all these bar the IBS vitamin D is low. A catch 22, in which case a topical cream would help. In fact we're playing around with making one, I've used it myself for a number of years and love it, so thought why not have it available on our web too. If you like stevia then don't stop, it's an extract from a plant, a member of the sunflower family. The Japanese have used it for years, the FDA .....well! See here and here. I used to have a plant of it, and found the leaves delicious if cut up fine over something like strawberries, gave it a festive look too, the green and red. Also used to dry it and added the dry leaf to coffee. If you follow the Ketogenic diet you can have masses of cream! But the Paleo diet suggests staying off all dairy. The best spoon is one used as a medicine measure, as that usually has ml marked on it, certainly 1/4, 1/2tsp marked on it. It is so relaxing, I don't notice it so much now, but do find I pick up a tube now and then, reflex action! And it is so good for men too, we have many using it, helps them as much as it helps us, for all the same reasons, even helps their Man Boobs! Take care Wray

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