Probable dose to reach ideal ratio of 600:1

by Mary
(North Carolina)

Hi Wray. I was just wondering if you had a guess of what would be a dose range of progesterone to actually reach the ratio of 600:1 that you suggest. I have read a couple of comments by Dr. Zava of the ZRT labs that says that women supplementing with doses of progesterone of 10-30 mgs often have P:E ratios of 200-1000:1. Is it likely then, that your recommended dose of 100-200 mgs. would raise those ratios FAR above 600:1 ratio? I would like to aim for that ratio, and am worried that I will far exceed it taking the 160 mgs I am taking right now. I would just feel more comfortable staying within ranges that are more commonly accepted as normal. I am on my seventh day of this dose, and only had a few days of estrogen dominance symptoms so far. I feel pretty good the last couple of days. I wonder on the sample lab saliva tests you have on the site,how many mgs those women were taking, as they all had ratios within 500-1000:1 ish range after natpro? Thanks so much.

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Jul 21, 2012
Answer?
by: Anonymous

I'm interested too!

Jul 21, 2012
Probable dose to reach ideal ratio of 600:1 and Blood test ratio
by: Wray

Hi Mary The naturopath that runs the tests for us usually suggests amounts in the region of 100mg/day. She herself has a ratio of 800:1 which delights her. I think there's one thing you're forgetting, the amount of progesterone needed is dependant on symptoms, not on the amount. If symptoms are severe 100mg/day is not going to touch sides. I've found this over and over again, and in fact I'm currently trying to help a woman now who persists in using this amount, in spite of the continued adverse symptoms she's experiencing from excess oestrogen. I've found if very severe symptoms are experienced i.e. asthma, seizures, heart palpitations, PND, panic attacks, endo etc, 400-500mg/day or more are needed. Dr Dalton used levels of 400mg, 800mg, and up to 2400mg/day for her patients with post natal psychosis, see here. If high levels of oestrogen are present a great deal more progesterone is needed to overcome it. It's simple enough to reduce the amount once symptoms have calmed down or gone. Blood tests are lower than saliva tests, but the ratios should be unchanged. In fact I think it might be an advantage to have serum tests, then the doctor won't panic at the high level! We do have a page on Hormone Testing you can look through. Take care Wray

Jul 21, 2012
Thank you
by: Anonymous

Thank you Wray. I do realize that the dose is going to be very individualized, I guess I was just wondering if the initial dose of 100-200 mgs was basically a high dose (for me anyway, as my symptoms are pretty mild, but irritating) which would sort of catapult me over the oestrogen dominance symptoms (mostly weight gain on the lower dose), but would probably put me over the correct ratio, and then as symptoms subside (and they already are, believe it or not), I would like to get back around the ratios of between 600-800. I would just feel much better, if my tests are telling me that I am in a range that is known to be healthy--I'm kind of a worry wort, and a numbers gal, i guess. I was curious what dose your natropath uses to get to the 800 ratio, as by my guess from Dr. Zava's comments, it would have been less. Thank you so much. :)

Jul 21, 2012
cont.
by: Mary

I think I was also kind of freaked out when I saw that you said that the prog. levels can go up to as high as 100,000. I wondered how high of a dose you would have to take to get up this high (I wouldn't want to go that high) Although you say its not a problem, I worry that there is not sufficient evidence that it is safe to be that high, especially long term? When you talk about how much Dr. Dalton gave people for problems, was this just short term? Do you mind me asking if you personally have had your levels checked as far as the ratios? I think I read you said you take around 170 mgs a day? I'm really sorry if I am going overboard with questions, I just want to make sure I won't do myself any harm in the long run.
thank you so much for all of your time. I really am sure after reading your site that I do need progesterone, if fact I'm sure I've needed it for at least 10 years after coming off of birth control pills, I've had so many symptoms over the years that add up.

Jul 22, 2012
Thank you
by: Wray

Hi Mary Yes you do worry unduly! The ratios are another rather arbitrary thing, as they are much lower if looking at the standard ratios given. We've noticed from the saliva tests we run that the ratios achieved are in the region of 600:1 and over. But the all important thing is the women were feeling better. That is the whole point of using progesterone, to feel better. It takes 1200mg/day for Traumatic Brain Injury victims to get better. Or 2400mg/day for post natal psychosis patients to get better. Or 400-500mg/day for women with endo, asthma or seizures to get better. They all have serious problems, so need far higher amounts than the norm. The length of time the progesterone is given is entirely dependant on when they get well. I do know from experience that PND can take years to recover from without help. I could have done with it! You say you want to get back to the 600-800 ratio, but you don't know what yours is yet. And who's ratios do you go by, the ones we've found work, or the 100-300:1 that is generally given? The ratios actually mean nothing, they are of academic interest. If someone give me theirs and it's low, it merely corroborates what is already apparent by the description of their symptoms. The only thing to take into account is are you feeling better. The naturopath uses the same amount she gives her patients, 100mg/day. I had a serum progesterone test done 15 years ago, I was feeling very strange at the time, and found a doctor willing to listen to me. My progesterone was in the follicular range, i.e. 0.6ng/ml whereas my oestrogen was in the normal range. I haven't bothered to have one since. Yes I do use about 170mg/day, but recently because of added stress I've been covering myself with it, from top to toe every morning and evening. So I must be using about 3tsp per day or 500mg progesterone. If you'd like to read about really high amounts women use, please see these comments here,
here, here and here. Take care Wray

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