PCOS,Had IUI & was placed on rx progesterone..

by Jennifer
(Kentucky)

I am 37, have been trying to conceive for about 3 1/2-4yrs. Found out about 2 yrs ago that I have pcos. Recently had a second IUI(artifical insemination) after taking letrazol(femara) to stimulate my ovaries. My RE/Fertility specialist put me on Crinone 8% (rx progesterone suppositories) 2 days after the insemination. Instructions were to take 1 in the morning for 2 wks..then test for pregnancy. It was two weeks this past fri. Got a negative result. Still haven't started my peroid. My doc told me to discontinue the progesterone and test again on tuesday. I guess my question is, shouldn't she be keeping me on the progesterone until my peroid? I mean what if by chance I am pregnant? I would think suddenly stopping the high dosage of the proges. would be bad? This is the first time I have taken the prescription. My acupuncturist placed me on progest natural creme to use at night. I have been using this for about a year but stopped when I started the rx. Now I don't know what to do. Should I start back on the progest again? I really feel like I need to be on a higher dosage consistantly.

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Jan 29, 2013
PCOS,Had IUI & was placed on rx progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer We do have a page on PCOS which is caused by oxidative stress. So high doses of antioxidants are needed. It always seems barbaric to me that doctors give drugs to force an egg to ovulate, rather than reversing the problem. As it is possible to get ovulation going again in PCOS. Studies have found certain nutrients correct the problem. We have a complex into which we've put all these nutrients into one, and had success with it. One woman with PCOS is now having her second child. Crinone 8% is only 90mg progesterone, far too low to have any effect. Generally 200-600mg/day is given, there are plenty of papers about this on our Pregnancy page, and please look through this page here. Progesterone should be used a minimum of twice a day too, as levels begin dropping after about 13 hours. You'll notice on the pregnancy page I do advise staying on the progesterone until pregnancy is either confirmed, or bleeding begins. Stopping cold turkey can cause a miscarriage. You might like to read these comments here. So you do need progesterone, no less than 200mg/day, plus high doses of antioxidants, in particular vitamin D. Please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Continued below

Jan 29, 2013
PCOS,Had IUI & was placed on rx progesterone Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer Vitamin D is vital for a successful pregnancy, and the health of the foetus too. In fact both Progesterone and Vitamin D are needed, as a low level of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. Plus it can cause miscarriages and prevent ovulation. Taurine is another vital nutrient too. If this pregnancy results in a miscarriage, please give your body a rest, and time to heal before attempting pregnancy again. It can take 3-6 months to reverse PCOS. We have two other pages you could look through, How to use progesterone cream and Menstruation. Take care Wray

Feb 02, 2013
Update on IUI
by: Jennifer (Kentucky)

Thank you for the emails and posts regarding my situation. This time around did not result in pregnancy. I discontinued the progesterone like the doctor told me. I didn't get this post in time. The fault was my own.
I was having a lot of weird symptoms. I ended up getting my peroid 2 days later after the day I tested and got a negative result for pregnancy. During the two week wait, I was ravenously hungry,my breasts were tender on the sides under my arm pits, I had diarreha on and off, and shooting pains in my rectum&occasionally in my vagina.
I have had all of these symptoms in my luteal phase before, but never as intense as they were this time around. I wondered if this is a side effect of the Crinone 8%? I felt pretty aweful. When I was pregnant before I had the hunger and breast tenderness right before I found out, in that leuteal phase period.
Now that I am not pregnant I have some questions. I did have my vit D tested it is 45. My FSH is 7, my estradiol is 39. I was instructed by acupunture to use the progest natural cream(pea size) amt. 1X per day@nite when my bleeding stops until when it starts. I had been doing this regime until this last IUI when I was placed on the Crinone. Then a pharmacist who specializes in natural med., told me to use the same cream and the same amt but do half in am and half in pm. He told me to do it day 14-28. What would you suggest for me? How much and when?
I currently take and have been taking the following supplements: Nordic Natural Omega with D3(includes DHA/EPA, metformin 750mg (2x per day), royal jelly, fertile fields, vitex, probiotic,prenatal vit that has 800mg folic acid,tyrosine. And today just purchased some taurine@your suggestion. How much of this should I take and when?
Thankyou for telling me the amts of progesterone for pregnancy&refering me to the other posts regarding this. With the vit D I saw 5000-10,000 is recommened. Do you have a brand you suggest for this and how many pills does this require?
Thankyou!

Feb 03, 2013
Update on IUI
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer I'm sorry you had the miscarriage, possibly it could have been avoided. But I feel now you will be able to heal your body in time for the next pregnancy. The Crinone is only 90mg progesterone, not enough to prevent a miscarriage, and would have contributed to your symptoms because of the low level. The hormone changes in early pregnancy can have dramatic affects on us. As progesterone is rising, it stimulates oestrogen, this in turn causes the symptoms you experienced. The same can occur in the luteal phase too, with rising progesterone levels. 45ng/ml is not a bad level for vitamin D, compared to some I've seen. But try to get it into the 70-100ng/ml range. I suggest you take 20,000iu for a month or two and then have another test. The amount of cream you were using was far too low, particularly if you have PCOS. I suggest you try 200mg/day to start with and see how you get on. If adverse symptoms occur, please increase to 300mg/day, you might need more. It should always be used twice a day, as levels begin dropping after about 13 hours. Do you have a 28 day cycle? Often in PCOS the cycle is irregular, and often longer too. As your progesterone is low I feel it's best to use it daily, through any bleeding for 2-3 months, or until stable. Then the cycle can be followed. Metformin is a typical diabetic drug given to women with PCOS, it doesn't cure the problem, see here, here, here and here. Only large amounts of antioxidants will do this. I don't believe you need the vitex, it does lower prolactin levels which can cause luteal phase dysfunction, with subsequent problems in embryo implantation, see here. But because it has a mild oestrogenic action, levels of 17 beta-oestradiol can increase. One study found mild ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome occurred in the luteal phase, see here. Continued below

Feb 03, 2013
Update on IUI Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer If Prolactin levels are high both progesterone and the amino acid tyrosine are very affective at suppressing it. 1000-2000mg/day taurine is a good dose. But please look back on our PCOS page, as it gives a list of nutrients needed to reverse the oxidative stress and initiate ovulation. None of the supps you're taking do this. Although the folic acid is usually given with inositol. I like to support Dr Cannell, he's been tireless in his attempts to bring awareness to people about the importance of vitamin D. This brand here is one he helped formulate and who support him in his work. It contains all the necessary co-factors too. Take care Wray

Feb 16, 2013
Progesterone creme and false opk's?
by: Jennifer(Kentucky)

I have a question about progesterone creme and ovulation predictor kits. According to these I ovulated on day 13. I have been in the 2 week wait peroid. Then towards the end of this week...would be day 27 today...around day 24 I started feeling weird, kind of like ovulation again. So I tested again and for the last 4 days have had very dark positive opk's. Can the progest. creme cause a false reading. I started using it on day 14 and increased my dosage to 120mg per day. Thanks!

Feb 18, 2013
Progesterone creme and false opk's?
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer Well I'm baffled, as OPK's only pick up LH levels. After the pre-ovulatory surge LH drops and does not rise again. They don't pick up progesterone, so that should not have made any difference. You could try the mini-microscope, it's just a much smaller version of the large microscopes doctors use to check for ovulation. Take care Wray

Feb 18, 2013
microscope
by: Jennifer(Kentucky)

I actually just bought that, and I can't get it to work right. I guess I need to experiment with it more. It always comes up blank. But thanks for the suggestion.
My nipples are sore too. Which is unusual for me. But I figured THIS was from the increase in progesterone. I am trying to increase it slowly. So I have been at the 120mg dosage for couple weeks now. I feel so much better already!
Thanks!

Feb 18, 2013
microscope
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer I have used the microscope myself. When you say it comes up blank, do you mean the screen is just black? Please check to see if there are batteries in it, and if so are they fully charged. It normally works well, as you know you put a dab of saliva or vaginal mucus on the glass screen, press the light switch and it should show the saliva. I don't think you could have seen my reply to you above, where I suggested you try 200mg/day, possibly 300mg/day. The worst thing you could do is to increase the progesterone slowly. Each small increment will stimulate oestrogen causing adverse symptoms. I'm pleased you feel better, but please use much more progesterone. Don't forget if you do have PCOS progesterone alone is not going to be enough. You must reverse the oxidative stress causing it, by taking large amounts of antioxidants. Take care Wray

Feb 20, 2013
response...
by: Jennifer(Kentucky)

Ok, I did increase my progesterone to 200mg. And with the antioxidants...if I order your pco formula this sounds like it should be all I need? Except for maybe extra D.
Also, this amount of progesterone won't cause my peroid to stop right?

Feb 20, 2013
also...
by: Jennifer(kentucky)

Also recently my RE told me that my ovaries look more multi-cystic than poly. I was asking her if I needed to take the metformin anymore, after I had read what you forwarded me. She said it would be a good idea to decrease it and eventually stop it. She said pco has such a wide range,,that I am probably in the low range. So, I am asking too, if I buy your pco powder supplement, is it going to be ok since I am still taking 750mg of metformin(I was on 1500)...I noticed it had the insonol. And I am thin as well.
Oh and I did get the microscope working, thanks. It didn't show any ferning.

Feb 22, 2013
response...
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer I think calling an ovary multi cystic is splitting hairs, as poly cystic means just that, many cysts. I'm glad she agreed you don't need the metformin, you might have seen the paper on the PCOS page, comparing metformin with inositol, in case not see here. The paper concludes with "Both metformin and MYO, can be considered as first line treatment for restoring normal menstrual cycles in most patients with PCOS, even if MYO treatment seems to be more effective than metformin." MYO is inositol. That is in the pco complex, using the doses found in all the studies on the vitamin, high at 4000mg/day. It does contain 5000iu vitamin D, so you will need to take extra to get your level up high. The complex won't clash with the metformin. Glad you got the microscope working, and I'm pleased you've increased the progesterone. Amounts of 400mg/day or more progesterone can cause bleeding to stop. If you use it following your cycle it won't. And even if you used it continuously, the 200mg/day won't stop it. Take care Wray

Feb 24, 2013
reply to previous regarding pco formula
by: Jennifer (kentucky)

Thankyou for the article on the MYO vs. Met. very interesting. Glad to hear that the two will not clash. Another question. I am taking a prenatal vitamin that contains 800mg folic acid as well. Is it ok to keep taking that along with this?
And thanks for the info about progesterone not stopping my peroid. I was just curious because its day 35 and the past couple of months I have started on day 33. But I may just be off schedule again.
And I agree with the splitting hairs comment regarding multi-cystic vs poly. I thought what they said was strange. I am so glad I have this website to help clarify things! Thanks for your efforts.

Feb 25, 2013
reply to previous regarding pco formula
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer I wouldn't take the folic acid as there is already 800mcg in the PCOS complex. That's if you decide to take it. If you just decide on the inositol, then yes continue with it. It was always combined with inositol in the studies. If you have PCOS then the cycle is often off schedule, so I don't think it's anything to be unduly concerned about. Thanks for the kind words! Take care Wray

Feb 27, 2013
response
by: Jennifer (Kentucky)

Thanks again! And just wanted to let you know I did start my peroid on day 37! So I was really only a few days off! Thats great.

Mar 03, 2013
response
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer Thanks for letting me know. Take care Wray

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