Low estrogen and normal progesterone

by Rosemary
(Littleton, Colorado)

I have been dealing with what I believe is hormone imbalance for quite awhile maybe even 10 years. In the past year and a half I have been on a roller coaster with high levels of estrogen and testosterone and fairly normal levels of progesterone. Now my last 2 labs have shown low estrogen but normal progesterone and I am no longer taking testosterone.

I was given troches to take for the estradial and I got worse with breast tenderness and aches and pains but it still showed low estrogen levels. She told me I could stop the estrodial or maybe just use a cream once a week. I am on a low level of progesterone cream of 45 mg a day and she says (my PA) that is a good level. My breast tenderness went away when I stopped the troches but aches have not and mood problems with depression and anxiety and not sleeping enough.

My question is, could I still need more progesterone even though my estrogen is low? I just want to get rid of these symptoms and am not sure what to do. Thanks.

Comments for Low estrogen and normal progesterone

Click here to add your own comments

May 22, 2011
Hormonal imbalance
by: Anonymous

Have you had your cortisol tested? Saliva testing is the only accurate way to test. Blood serum will show normal if they are low. You can do some things naturally to restore balance with hormones if you don't respond well to supplemental hormones. Look at trying some of the supplements on www.womentowomen.com. They know more about hormones than anyone in the country.

May 25, 2011
Low estrogen and normal progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary The roller coaster sounds as if you are in Peri-menopause. This is a difficult time for many of us, it was for me. Or possibly you are now in Menopause. I don't believe any women needs more oestrogen, certainly not oestradiol the most potent of the three oestrogens. It's an inflammatory hormone, hence the breast tenderness and aches. I'm not sure of your age, but levels should be dropping as we get older. And as for giving a woman testosterone, this is not what we need, see here, here, here, here, here here, here, here, here, here and here. I do believe you would be helped with more progesterone. I recommend 100-200mg/day, dependant on symptoms. But if you consider increasing the amount, please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first, as this can occur. Take care Wray

May 25, 2011
Low estrogen and normal progesterone
by: Rosemary

Thank you Wray, as for your questions about my age, I am 60 years old so am actually post menopause. Is it possible for blood work to show low estrogen and stll have estrogen dominance? Prior to the last blood work I had high estrogen for about 1 1/2 years so it just now came down to low. I think my body has been out of whack for awhile. I did order the Natpro and will try taking more estrogen as my doc only has me on 45 mg a day. I know I will not feel good for awhile but hopefully will be worth it Anymore insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

May 26, 2011
Low estrogen and normal progesterone
by: Rosemary

Hi again, I noticed in my last comment, I said I would try to take more estrogen and I did not mean that I meant progesterone, I have stopped taking the estrogen and having a lot of issues so I am thinking I need to increase the progesterone. My head feels kind of wierd and suffering from depression, body aches, etc. Thanks.

Jun 03, 2011
Low estrogen and normal progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary Knowing your age does help. Oestradiol should be low post menopause. But it's not so much the amount of each hormone, but the ratio between the two that is critical. We've found from Saliva Tests we run, that the progesterone to oestrogen ratio should be 600:1 and over to feel well. Do you have your results, you could check this out if you do. I did think you meant progesterone and not oestrogen! Unfortunately you would get those symptoms stopping the oestrogen cold turkey. It's not dangerous just unpleasant. If you prefer to reduce it slowly, whilst using a higher amount of progesterone, you could go back on it. We do have more info on our page Coming off HRT. But if you're happy to stick it out, I suggest you use a high amount initially, maybe 150-200mg/day progesterone. This should help to overcome the symptoms more quickly. Something I see I forgot to ask you to do and that's to have a vitamin D test done. Most of us have too low a level, and it's such a vital nutrient. Plus a lack reduces the benefits of progesterone. It also helps depression. For more info see the Vitamin D council and GrassrootsHealth websites. Take care Wray

Jun 07, 2011
Started bleeding while in menopause
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, It is me again, thank you for your response, I have a question as I quit taking the bioidentical estriol and estradial about a month ago and have just been taking the progesterone. My PA had me on low dose of progesterone 45mg a day and I ordered your Natpro and have probably been taking that along with the compounded progesterone about 150 mg a day. Well a couple of days ago I started bleeding and I have been in Menopause for 12 years with no periods at all, is it part of the estrogen dominance after all these years that I could start a period. Am I taking to much or should I take more? Thanks.

Jun 07, 2011
progesterone therapy and menopausal bleeding
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, I sent this earlier but I don't think it went, thank you for your prior response, I now have a new problem hoping you can answer. I mentioned that I went off the bioidentical estriol and estradial about a month ago after being on them many years, I am now doing the low dose of progesterone that my PA gives me of the compounded 45 mg a day. I ordered the Natpro and started taking that with my other so I getting probably about 150mg a day now, so yesterday I started a period and haven't had anything like that in 12 years, could this be from the estrogen dominance and progesterone therapy? Should I take less or should I take more, a quick response would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Jun 21, 2011
Started bleeding while in menopause by: Rosemary
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary Well your first query did come through. I'm sorry I can't answer quickly, too many queries now. Bleeding can occur in the first year of menopause, I've not heard of it 12 years later! I don't think there's any cause for alarm. We still make oestrogen in our fat cells to the day we die, however few or many we have. This is sufficient to build the lining, but as we are no longer ovulating in Menopause, there's no progesterone to cause the shedding. So I believe your lining has built up over those years, and has not been absorbed back into the body as it normally is. Using the progesterone would have caused shedding. If the bleeding is still continuing, I've found 400mg/day progesterone is needed to stop it. Please let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Jul 06, 2011
Progesterone dose hard to figure out
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, Thanks for your last response to me, update on the period after 12 years, I had it the once and that was it but, of course my PA that I see said I should have an pelvic ultrasound so I did but haven't heard anything and it has been a couple of weeks. I don't think it will show anything. I am still having a lot of issues, I have been off the estriol and estradial now for about 2 months, but did not start taking a higher dose of progesterone till about 4 weeks ago and have gradually been going up. I think I am taking about 300mg right now, but I still have body aches, headaches, kind of wierd feelings in my head, high blood pressure, diarrhea a lot as I have anxiety and depression being the symptom I would like to get rid of most of all. I did read your info on depression, I don't do well taking tryptophan and have tried tyrosine but not much difference, is it normal to be taking this long and still having estrogen dominance symptoms? I don't think I mentioned that I have hashimotos and take a compounded thyroid pill for that and I know that can cause a lot of issues as well. I have read Dr. Michael Platts book on bioidentical hormones and thought it was great. I know sometimes he thinks a person might need a little testosterone or DHEA but you say you don't.

Any help would be appreciated as to what I can do to help alleviate some symptoms, I also take 5,000 IU of Vitamin D. My last blood test results were Estradiol 12.8pg.ml, progesterone 5.7ng/ml testosterone 20ng/dl, FSH Serum 24.9 mIU/mL. In the past my estrogen has been much higher and same for testosterone. About 6 mos ago tests were: Estradial 45.7pg/ml, Progesterone 3.1 ng/ml and testosterone 82. So I seem to be all over the board but for years now my estradial was always higher than progesterone. Sorry for such a long comment. Thanks.

Jul 06, 2011
Also hair loss
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, One think I forgot to mention is that I also started having hair loss about 4 weeks ago and it is getting worse every week. Would that be from all the changes in my hormones or what Thanks.

Jul 11, 2011
Very anxious
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray again, I know I haven't received a comment on the other comments I made, but everything seems to keep changing for me so here is another question. I have been feeling very anxious and am having some palpitations and high blood pressure and diarrhea. Sometimes I feel I feel that way after taking the progesterone cream. I have been doing the higher doses of about 250mg every day sometimes more, I have been doing the progesterone therapy for about 6 weeks gradually going up so I have been at this level for about 3 weeks. I don't know if it is the progesterone or if it is affecting my thyroid (hashimotos)that is making me feel this way but it is very uncomfortable and I am concerned about the high blood pressure, I would love to get your thoughts on what is going on. Still having muscle aches and some headaches and depression. Thanks for any comments.

Jul 14, 2011
Progesterone dose hard to figure out
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary I'm answering your three queries in one. I'm pleased that the period was the only one, I would have been surprised if you'd had more than two. I have found possibly one more can occur after the first. Your ratio is quite good, at 445:1, although I think it could be higher. I gave you the saliva tests page, you'll see from that that the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen ranges from 600:1 to over 1000:1. Pity you didn't respond well to tryp, were you taking it with some carb and at night only, as I instruct on the page I gave you? Dr Platt is so good, in fact he uses Natpro for his patients. But quite possibly he hasn't seen the studies on DHEA or testosterone yet. I'm pleased you're taking 5000iu's vitamin D per day, but have you had a test done recently? Thyroid problems often indicate too low a level of vitamin D, so possibly the 5000iu's is not sufficient for you. Please have a test. The hair loss would be due to the changes. Unfortunately all your symptoms point to oestrogen dominance. Ironically testosterone increases before oestrogen, as progesterone is first converted to testosterone, before the oestrogen conversion. So rising testosterone would cause the hair loss, it should stabilise soon I hope. Oestrogen is responsible for the high BP, it causes constriction of the smooth muscle which surrounds blood vessels. Progesterone on the other hand is a vasodilator, see here and here. I'm running out of space, so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray

Jul 14, 2011
Progesterone dose hard to figure out
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary Oestrogen also causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here and here. So your symptoms all point to excess oestrogen in ratio to progesterone. Please read these comments from users of high amounts of progesterone, I hope they would encourage you to persevere, see here, here, here and here. Take care Wray




Jul 14, 2011
Muscle aches
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, Thank you for your reply, it is always a relief to hear from you or I feel like I am on my own. Last time I had my Vitamin D checked (back in Dec.), it was 61, so it could be higher but I am out in the sun more now also. I did start adding more progesterone but it seems I always feel worse when I do that. I have been having really bad muscle aches all over. I am confused as you said my ratio of progesterone to estrogen was pretty good but could be higher. Would it still be causing all of these symptoms?

I am feeling more fatigued also. I know that I have probably been estrogen dominant for many, many years and I think it took its toll on my body (if I had only known). Also, in reading all the comments from other people on their symptoms, no one seems to have digestive issues. Is that part of the estrogen dominance, I get diarrhea, loose stools a lot and sometimes burning in my stomach. I have been trying to eat pretty healthy, but not always. As for the tryptophan, I did take it at night 500 mg and tried to eat a carb. I would like relief for the depression, I am hoping the progesterone will do the trick. Thanks for all your help and everything you do to help women. Thanks.

Aug 16, 2011
High cortisol
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, the last post I sent was quite awhile ago and I think maybe you missed it, anyway it is the one above this one. I have some more questions.

After visiting my PA recently, she had done some tests, the pelvic ultrasound showed that my uterus lining was thin and she said that is a sign of low estrogen, she thinks I should go on a low dose of estriol and small dose of testosterone as that was borderline low. Also, my adrenal saliva test came back with me having high cortisol and she is having me take phosphotydlserine, she switched my thyroid (hashimotos) back to Armour after being on Westhroid. I also am now taking 100mg of troche progesterone. I still add some of yours. Still having issues of low energy, and some muscle aches but somewhat better. I am concerned about the high cortisol as I have been having the high blood pressure, along with depression, digestive issues and anxiety.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Aug 19, 2011
Muscle aches
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary I don't understand how I could have missed your post, so sorry! You are having a tough time, but it seems there's more to it than just a progesterone issue. Has anyone checked for coeliac disease? This is more often than not found together with thyroid problems, see here, here, here, here, here and here. Some of your symptoms fit too, please have this checked out. Although your vitamin D is a good level, it could be higher. Vitamin D is vital for a healthy gut, see here and here. Please increase the amount you are taking, and see if that helps. It can take time, so don't expect a quick fix. And please have another test done. It should be done every six months to be on the safe side. As I told you, vitamin D is also important for the thyroid too. And don't give up on the aminos, I've found tryp can take up to 6 months before relief is found. Oral progesterone, into which I classify troches, is the least effective Delivery system. Much of the troche is swallowed, so you are getting little benefit. Did I give you our page on Insulin Resistance? This could explain the fatigue, although I think that's due to your gut problems. You're not getting sufficient nutrients into your system. Please get checked for coeliac disease, and let me know. Take care Wray


Sep 06, 2011
Body temp.
by: Anonymous

Thanks Wray for your last comments, I have a few more concerns. I see my PA later this month and will ask about Celiac test, I did have a stool test a few years ago and said I was borderline gluten tolerant but no mention of celiac so don't know if they tested that.

Anyway, I have a question about body temp, I know progesterone affects that and mine has been staying up for about 2 or 3 months now and sometimes goes up to 92.0. Is that normal and is affecting my hashimotos, I feel like when I take my Armour thyroid, my temp goes even higher. Could the progesterone have anything to do with it, I don't know if means I don't need as much thyroid. Normally, my body temp is on the low side because of hashimotos, do you have any idea what could be going on.

Thanks for your help.
Rosemary

Sep 27, 2011
lab work
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, I think you missed my post again from about 3 weeks ago, it does say anonymous but it is me. I did get labwork back for my hormones. She said my progesterone is 4.0 ng and my estrodial is 10 pg. That seems like that is a 4 to 1 ratio, she says my estrogen is to
low and it certainly appears to be. She prescribed some estriol 1.8 and estradial .2. 60 mg progesterone but I add some of the natpro to that so I am taking probably between 100 and 150 mg. She thinks my progesterone is good but I don't understand why she would lower the dosage as I was taking 100mg of troches, I had her give me the cream this time as I didn't like the troches and I remember you said they are no
good.

What do you think of pellets? I have been reading some info on those and they seem to be pretty good. I feel like my body must need some
estriol as it is so low. I have been having a lot of hairloss since June and not getting better, that is about a month after I stopped my estrogen, so it seems like I need it. My testosterone level is not high, it is more on
the normal low side. Just wanted your opinion on this and also my previous post. Thanks.

Oct 05, 2011
Body temp.
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary For some reason I miss your posts! I'm puzzled you say your temp goes up to 92, as the average body temp is about 98.4. But it depends on where the temp is taken too. The range of human oral temps varies from 92 to 101 °F. But to answer your question, progesterone is thermogenic, ie it does raise temps very slightly, from 0.2 - 0.9 °F, which means it also increases metabolism slightly. So it does help the thyroid. The ratio between your progesterone and oestrogen is 400:1, the progesterone is measured in ng/ml and the oestrogen in pg/ml. A ng is 1000 times greater than a pg, so you have to divide the oestrogen result by 1000 to bring it to ng, and then divide. This isn't a bad ratio, although we've found it's better if over 600:1. So no your oestrogen is not too low, as it must be viewed as a ratio to progesterone, it's not the actual level which is critical. In other words you need more progesterone and no more oestrogen. Particularly oestradiol, see our page on HRT. You ask about pellets, I think you should read these comments here and here before using them. Hair loss is not caused by lack of oestrogen, but excess testosterone, and it's the free testosterone which is important, not the bound. Take care Wray



Oct 06, 2011
Body temp
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, Thank you for your response, I don't know what happens when you miss my post, hopefully you will get this one. I definitely put in the wrong temp on my previous post, it should not have been 92, but 99.0. The more progesterone I take, the higher my temp goes and I also perspire which I don't normally do. So that is what I was asking if that is normal.

Also a question on your comment I dont understand if the estrogen is so low, what if it showed 0.00 estrogen even if progesterone is ok, are you saying you would still not need it as I know we need some estrogen? That would mean I have none wouldn't it? Thanks for all your help.

Oct 19, 2011
question on estrogen
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray, I think you missed my last post again. Hopefully you will see this one as I do want to know about the body temp and estrogen levels if they get to 0.00 meaning you don't have any even if the progesterone is ok. Is there ever, ever a need for any estrogen or testosterone if the levels are flat? Thanks.

Oct 21, 2011
Body temp
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary It really is most bizarre that I keep missing your posts! Thanks for giving me the correct temp. I was really puzzled how it could go 'up' to 92, when that is the lowest within the normal range! Progesterone is thermogenic, so does increase temperature, so yes it is normal. I mentioned it went up by 0.2 - 0.9 °F. I have never come across anyone who has 0.00 oestrogen. Our fat cells make it, particularly after menopause. But it's oestrone they make, and this is never tested for, only oestradiol, which is the pre-menopause oestrogen. Oestradiol should be low after menopause. It varies from 0 - 30 pg/ml, see Medline Oestradiol. Oestrone is about 30 pg/ml, see BNET Menopause: Understanding the reproductive cycle and Medscape Menopause Take care Wray

Apr 21, 2012
Oxytocin
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
As you can see it has been awhile since I made any comments. I have a question about Oxytocin.
My doctor prescribed me this a few weeks ago using it to help my moods. He says it has helped some of his patients. I am taking about 200 to 300 mg of progesterone. My doctor still really thinks I need a little estrogen, can't seem to change their mind on that but I obviously don't have to. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. I have had issues with high cortisol and adrenals just not being quite right.

Apr 23, 2012
Oxytocin
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary Well at least this time I saw your post in time! I'm puzzled why it's taking so long to resolve your issues, there's obviously more than a lack of progesterone behind them. Did you ever get a vitamin D test done? I know you were taking 5000iu's per day, but it could be you're not absorbing it well. Particularly as you had problems with your gut. It's so important for the gut too. And did they check for the celiac disease? If your cortisol is too high, please take zinc, about 15-45mg/day, this does reduce it, see here and here. I've heard magnesium can help too. This is generally low in our food, and it's the most important co-factor for vitamin D. Please take a look at this site on Adrenal Fatigue. Oddly enough sodium can help the adrenals too, are you taking enough salt? I have no experience with oxytocin, other than knowing it's called the 'love hormone'! It is partly responsible for the contractions we get during labour, also contracts the milk ducts when breast feeding. Seems it could be involved in the contractions of orgasm too. I would be most interested to hear if it helps you, as progesterone suppresses it! It rises just prior to giving birth, due to the dropping progesterone levels. It's not until after birth when progesterone has dropped substantially that oxytocin comes into it's own, and breast feeding commences. Do let me know if it helps, I'm fascinated. Take care Wray

Apr 23, 2012
Thanks
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
I will let you know on the Oxytocin, I have read that it does help with moods. As for the Vitamin D, the last it was checked it was 70 which they say is good, I think it could be a little higher so maybe I should take more. As for my gut, my doctor thinks it is more of an adrenal problem.
I have got that calmed down somewhat, my doctor
is doing T-3 therapy only as I have a high reverse T-3 and it has come down a little but needs more so he says when we get that down, it should help my thyroid to work as it is suppose to. My gut problems have also gotten better. The last time they checked my hormones about 2 months ago, my estrogen was to high so I know that was causing some issues, anyway I am taking the higher dose of progesterone and hope it will help.
Thanks

Apr 24, 2012
Thanks
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary I'm pleased your doctor seems to know what he's doing. rT3 is very rarely checked for, and it inhibits T3. Your vitamin D level is good, surprising as too many have very low levels. It wouldn't harm to get it higher, as it does help the gut. I'd be interested to hear if the higher progesterone does help, and whether the oxytocin does too. I hope things resolve soon for you. Take care Wray

May 09, 2012
Hair loss
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
As you can see from all my posts, still dealing
with issues, it probably is my fault as I keep
changing things. Anyway, the doctor I see I really like but he did have me taking bioidentical estrogen along with the 200 mg of
progesterone. I decided once again to try and go off the estrogen, I have done this several times and everytime I go off of it, my hair loss gets horrible, if I start up on the estrogen again, it gets better, what are your thoughts on it? The first time, I stayed off for 6 weeks, and this time I have been off of it for 3 1/2 weeks. I can't help but think, it is because I need some of the estrogen. Thanks for all your help.


May 11, 2012
Hair loss
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary Hair Loss has baffled people for centuries. Many things cause it, in menopausal women it's more often than not excess testosterone, specifically the more potent testosterone DHT. Oestrogen works as a weak 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, which prevents testosterone converting into DHT, see here. They compare it with the known 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, finasteride and progesterone. The paper says…."In our experiments finasteride was the best inhibitor of DHT formation in a dose-dependent manner, followed by progesterone. Even 1 nM finasteride inhibited DHT synthesis in DP by 86% and 1 nM progesterone by 75% in DP, but 1 nM 17alpha-E did not inhibit DHT formation and 1 nM 17beta-E by 59%" It appeared that 100 nM 17alpha-E inhibited DHT formation in DP, but only by 20%. I would not have thought worth the risk. These are a few more papers on 5a-reductase, see here and here. I wish I could help you more, but I have exhausted my limited knowledge on hair loss! I will have to leave it up to you and your doctor to decide which is the best route. It could be your hair loss is not testosterone related, but stress related, in which case I still believe progesterone is the better bet, as it's a known anxiolytic. Possibly you need far more progesterone than the 200mg/day, and have you had your vitamin D checked? This is critical to the anagen phase of hair growth. Take care Wray

Sep 19, 2012
dosage
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
It has been awhile since I have sent any comments,
but I have a question, if you are going to be
taking 400mg to get rid of estrogen dominance
symptoms, what is the best way, is it better to take it all at once or throughout the day?
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rosemary

Sep 21, 2012
dosage
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary I do hope things are getting better, as you've been struggling for so long. It's best to spread the progesterone over the day if using high amounts. It should always be used a minimum of twice a day though. So if you find hourly or twice hourly applications a bore, then at least twice a day. I take it you are considering using this amount? Did the T3 not help, and I know you added more oestrogen at one point, did you stop this again? These papers might help a bit, see here and here. Please keep in touch. Take care Wray

Apr 16, 2013
Hormone levels
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
I wanted to get your feedback on these levels
for my hormones:
Estradiol, serum 150 PG/ML
Progesterone 5.0 NG/ML

Testosterone Free/TOT 21 NG/dl
I am guessing this is still estrogen dominant,
I am taking approx. 300 mg of progesterone every day and sometimes a little more. Can you tell
me what the ratio is on my tests for the ratio
of progesterone to estrogen. I still can't quite understand how to figure it out, what should
the estrogen be and progesterone? I do not
taking any estrogen or testosterone now for about
7 months.
Thanks

Apr 17, 2013
Hormone levels
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary Both your levels fall within the normal ranges. Although if you look at the ratio your oestradiol is still high, progesterone too low. To find the ratio you divide the progesterone result by the oestradiol result. But first you have to convert oestradiol to ng/ml to match progesterone. So you need to divide that by 1000, which gives you 0.15ng/ml. Which makes your ratio 33:1. I would generally say this is far too low, but how do you feel, as this is the whole point of using progesterone. You might like to look at the results of Saliva Tests we run and see how the ratios increase. I didn't realise you were using both oestrogen and testosterone, I'm relieved you've stopped them. You are using a large amount of progesterone, but if your vitamin D is too low, the progesterone won't have it's full affect. It's essential to get vitamin D levels up too. Please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Apr 18, 2013
Hormone levels
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
Thanks for answering my question so promptly.
I do still have some symptoms but I think improving somewhat. I have headaches and
still having problems with my weight which I don't usually have to worry about that but feel bloated a lot and doesn't matter what I eat, I can't seem to lose barely maintain. I have had breast tenderness for months but finally getting better, muscle aches sometimes but getting better. My doctor said my magnesium is to low so have been trying to build that up for the last 3 months but he is having me up it cause it hasn't gone up. Having hairloss also. I know it takes time but I just thought my levels would be better by now. My doctor prescribed 250 mg of progesterone bioidentical compound cream and then I use some of the natpro to get it over 300. I did have vitamin D just checked and it was 63, he said that was good, i think it could be a little higher. Do you think I should go even higher with the progesterone?
Thanks for your help.

Apr 19, 2013
Hormone levels
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary I haven't given you the Migraines page before. You might find a clue or two to help you. Are you taking those nutrients listed on the Hair Loss page? The bloating shows your oestrogen is too high still, as this does cause water retention. It also causes the Breast Tenderness. I'm pleased the muscle aches are getting better. Interesting your doctor found your magnesium too low, as that does cause substance P to increase, this peptide causes pain, see here and here. I'm not sure how much magnesium you're taking but it would a good idea to take 800mg/day. Your vitamin D is not bad, although I err on the side of the specialists who believe it should be between 70-100ng/ml. It might be an idea to try 400mg/day progesterone and see if that helps you. Do let me know how you get on, it is a long haul you've been through. Take care Wray

Jul 08, 2013
Very high estrogen
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
Havent written in awhile but I just had more labs done with my doctor and was shocked at how high my estradiol was and so was the doctor. I haven't been using any estrogen since last October and been taking pretty regularly 350 to 400 of progesterone.
The last time I had my blood work it was still a little high aat 150 PG/ML but in 3 months it went all the way up to 912 PG/ML. My doctor says he
is baffled as to why it would be that high. Do you have any thoughts on that? Also, magnesium still low and having trouble getting that up. Symptoms have been weight gain and hairloss.
Thanks Rosemary

Jul 08, 2013
Very high estrogen
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray again, I just sent an email with my questions, but I sent it from an old one so if you want to look at posts I have made since then, this should help,
Thanks Rosemary

Jul 11, 2013
Very high estrogen
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary I can't believe you're still struggling. I've read through your whole page to get a better picture. It seems your aromatase could be too high, this enzyme converts testosterone to oestrogen. We make more testosterone each month than oestrogen, but most of it is converted to oestrogen. Has he ever checked your testosterone levels? It's the free testosterone which is important, as this is active. If bound to SHBG in becomes inactive. Maybe he could check it, and your aromatase levels too. Testosterone causes hair loss and weight gain. Oestrogen causes weight gain too, both cause Insulin Resistance which you could possibly have. He could check for this too, as it's impossible to loose weight if you have it. A lack of vitamin D causes IR too, I know in the past your level has been good, but has it been checked recently, as it drops in winter, stress drops it too. He could check your blood glucose levels and your insulin levels too, as if these are too high, you will gain weight. Do you drink processed milk? As that contains BST, the hormone given to cows to increase milk production. BST causes IGF-1 to increase, this increases levels of aromatase, which would of course increase oestrogen levels. Are you eating a lot of phytoestrogens, i.e. legumes and grains? Or drinking soy milk? As these increase oestrogen levels. This is an extreme example here, but it gives you an idea of how the phytoestrogens can affect us, "the patient revealed he was drinking 3 quarts of soy milk per day because of lactose intolerance. He was asked to abstain from ingesting soy milk and other soy products. His estradiol and estrone concentrations began falling to near normal levels over the next several months, but then started climbing again. Upon further interviews, the patient described substituting another nonlactose product for the soy milk and did not read that it contained soy as a major ingredient." Has he checked your ovaries for any cysts? I know you're in menopause, but who knows, it could be another reason your oestrogen is high. It really does seem as if you have problems with your gut, if you can't get your magnesium level up. I take it the test for celiac disease was negative? I suggest putting 3 handfuls of Epson Salts in your bath, it is absorbed well. Or mix up a 1/4 cup in about 1 cup water, and rubbing that all over your skin once a day. Take care Wray

Jul 12, 2013
High estrogen
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
Thank you for all the info, it is more than my doctor offered, and he is pretty good. I don't drink milk at all, and I do not eat any soy knowingly but I do know it can be hidden in things. He did not check my testosterone on this lab but the one in March, was ok. My ferritin level was to low for me at 40 and with hashimotos should be close to 70 so I started taking some iron, was not taking any. Will ask about that enzyme next consultation and insulin resistance, although have never had any problems with it in the past. Thank you and will keep you up to date when I find out anything.
Thanks Rosemary

Jul 17, 2013
High estrogen
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary I would appreciate knowing the results if you have the test. And please check if they looked for the free testosterone level, and not just the total level. Take care Wray

Nov 02, 2013
Progesterone to low
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
It has been awhile, since my last post, I did have blood work in August and just had hormone levels checked about 2 weeks ago. The results in August were Estradiol serum 418 PG/ML, Progesterone 14.0 NG/ML, Testosterone 12 ng/dl and testosterone free 0.7 pg/ml. Ferritin 61 had been 40, vitamin B-12 890 pg/ml, had been 1100, T-3 thyroid 2.9 pg/ml, t-4 1.3 and reverse t-3 was 33 ng/dl so much higher again. Anyway, I hate to make this so long but want to explain what I have been doing as I had to see my PA who is not the one that has been helping with this in the past 2 years, it is a thyroid specialist and hormones. I had to go back to her so she could order an ultrasound for my thyroid nodule. So, she saw the estrogen levels and told me to go off of the progesterone entirely for 4 weeks cold turkey. She thought that my body is not absorbing the cream. Also the other doctor had
told me that my testosterone levels were to low and wanted me to take testosterone but was giving me 5 mg and I just did not want to take that. He has been good about everything else but he does think when levels are low in testosterone or estradiol you should take them. I didn't take the testosterone but a few days. So, when quitting the progesterone, I have done horrible, I think I have messed up my thyroid, major depression and digestive issues again which had gotten better. I think it has raised my cortisol also, feeling anxious a lot. I have been miserable. So after being off the progesterone for 3 1/2 weeks, I did my labwork. Here are the results as of 2 weeks ago, Estradiol 23 pg/ml,
progesterone 1.4 ng/ml, FSH 71.1 MIU/ML, Testosterone free 1.0, Total testosterone 28 ng/dl. As you can see the estrogen dropped a ton but so did the progesterone so still feeling pretty bad. I did start taking some progesterone about 150 mg as she doesn't want me to take more than that and she wants me to go on troches and says they are better and do not go through the gut. I haven't done that yet either. Everyone says something different. My other doctor had no problem with me doing 300 mg or more of progesterone. One question I have is was she right that I was not absorbing the progesterone which made the estrogen go so high as it did come way down? I would like your opinion on all of this. Again, I apologize for this being so long, but I needed to explain everything.

Nov 04, 2013
Progesterone to low
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary I can’t explain the oestrogen dropping, but your latest result gives a ratio of P:E2 of 61:1, which is low. I think I gave you a long time ago the Saliva Tests we run on the Natpro. The ratios were all over 600:1, or ten times higher than your current level. So I’m not surprised you’re feeling horrible. We do have a page on Hormone Testing you could look through. Progesterone is calming, as it activates GABA our calming neurotransmitter, so low progesterone would increase Anxiety. Troches are held in the mouth, the progesterone is absorbed via the epithelial cells. But inevitably some will get swallowed, see here. I’ve said all along that I think your problem is not just a hormone issue, but something underlying it. I did suggest you get checked for celiac disease, which I think you had done and it came back negative? But you could still have a sensitivity to gluten and the other chemicals found in grains particularly wheat. Please read this page by Dr Hyman and see if this could be your issue. Another excellent resource is Grain Brain: The Surprising Truth about Wheat, Carbs, and Sugar--Your Brain's Silent Killers. Take care Wray

Nov 05, 2013
hormone problem
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
Thanks for your response, I know the underlying condition, is probably the hashimotos, I did give up gluten, so not feeling any better from doing that though. I think my reverse T-3 may be high again and I will find out my thyroid results again next week. He may put me back on T-3 compound only. I do have some low bacteria problem in the gut and I am taking biocidin for
that. I know you say not to take any testosterone, but they keep saying mine is to low.

Nov 11, 2013
Progesterone dose
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray again,
I know you say that you think there is something other than my hormones and I think Hashimotos is aLWAYS CAUSing problems. But I still think that the hormones being out of balance causes me a lot of issues. Like I said when the PA had me go cold turkey off the progesterone, I haven't been the same since. I am taking some but, of course, she doen't want me to take over 100 or 150 mg. My other doctor had me on 300 mg and I will be talking to him this week. Do you think I should go up higher as this level has not helped. I have a wierd feeling in my head and I can't seem to get it to go away. I think my cortisol is off, thanks to the PA. Anyway, I was always wondering if I take some of the amino acids you suggest for that, do you take those doses all at once or several times a day. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Nov 15, 2013
Progesterone dose
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary It’s hard to give you advice, as you have two doctors giving you contradictory advice! I suggest you use whichever amount helped the most. You said you did try a gluten free diet but it didn’t help much. It can take months, if not years to correct, how long did you try it for? I take a complex we make which contains the aminos, so I take it once a day. I’d go daft taking then several times a day! Take care Wray

Nov 19, 2013
Response
by: Rosemary

Hi Wray,
Thanks for answering, the reason I have to see
2 different doctors as the one doctor is in California and specializes in thyroid and hormone problems, I do phone consultations and see him once a year. The PA I have to see once a year as she has to order the ultrasound for the thyroid nodule that I have and I have to do that once a year. I see her and she wants to know everything I am doing and gives her advice, I don't have to take her advice but she tends to scare me about things. You are right, I need to pick one and decide which helps me more. I believe the doctor in California helps me more. I am back to taking the higher dose which he recommended on my consultation last week. He said he just went to a progesterone seminar that some woman (I think she was a doctor and big advocate of high progesterone doses. He was very positive about it and says he has no problem with me taking the higher doses. He also says that as far as the gluten free diet goes, that I should notice some improvement by this time (its been about 2 1/2 months), and if I don't he doesn't think that is my problem. I am still doing the gluten free diet though. He did put me back on a high T-3 compound which I hope that will help with my high reverse t-3. My Vitamin D level did drop from 68 ng/ml to 49 ng/ml and I had already gone up in my dose to 12,000 from 6,000 because of the winter months. I guess I might go even more. Do you sell the amino complex that you take? I feel that I will get better on the higher dose of progesterone. Thanks again.

Aug 04, 2014
I don't know what to do...
by: Michele

I discovered this year at the age of 49 that I was in menopause, although I would have sporadic cycles. I started Bi-Est cream, low dose, with 100 mg. Progesterone. When I first started, I had almost a 20 pound weight gain within a month or so, and stopped the medication. My periods came back HEAVY, and painful.I then went to my GYN, showed her the bloodwork from a year ago compared to this year, and she said that the therapy I was doing was wrong, and prescribed me oral estrogen, which my hormone Dr. said was not good. I re-started the bio-identical cream but only half of the prescribed dosage. Was told I can't do that, so I followed the original regimine. After 8 weeks of doing this, my blood-work came back with good testosterone, but high FSH and low Estradiol. I have just lately been very emotional, and feel like I am losing my mind. Now the recommendations are for pellet insertion, and I am willing to do anything at this point to regain my life - Can anyone explain why the FSH would go up, and Estrogen down ?

Sep 07, 2014
progesterone/estrogen ratio
by: Rosemary

Hi, Its been awhile since I have commented on anything, but wanted to get some advice on some new hormone labs. I just had them tested about 2 weeks ago, the estrodial was 20 pg/ml and progesterone is 2.2 ng/ml. the 3 months prior it was estrodial 15 pg/ml and progesterone was 5.2ng/ml. The latest labs show me estrogen dominant, my progesterone dropped considerably, I did lower my progesterone that I was taking to 150 mg when I had been taking 250 to 300, does this mean that I have to always stay that high with the progesterone? I was hoping to be able to lower it but obviously I can't as it drops to much. What is the ratio of it now? I do have symptoms of depression and hair loss. Any comments would be appreciated.

Sep 09, 2014
progesterone/estrogen ratio
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary It is a while. Your ratio is now 110:1, so it has dropped. I suggest you increase back up to what you had been using. And if you do reduce do so very slowly. Avoid phytoestrogen foods like legumes, unsaturated vegetable oils, supplements containing phytoestrogens. This will increase oestrogen levels, as you know stress will too. Maybe you would consider following a Ketogenic Diet? This has helped many recover, this is a Low Carb Food List. Take care Wray

Sep 09, 2014
I don't know what to do...
by: Wray

Hi Michele FSH always goes up in Menopause. The weight gain is explained on our page about Oestrogen Dominance. You might also like to look through Peri-menopause and How to use Progesterone Cream. I would avoid having the pellets, please see this page here and here. Take care Wray

Sep 09, 2014
progesterone dose
by: Rosemary

Thank you Wray, my doctor did say to go up to 200mg so I went from 150 to 200 but I have been doing a little more around 250. I use the natpro with the compounded. Do you think I should go even higher?

Sep 10, 2014
progesterone dose
by: Wray

Hi Rosemary See how you feel, but it's generally best to stick to one amount for a few days/weeks before increasing it. You might find the amount you're using is fine, pity to exceed it as it just costs more. Take care Wray

Click here to add your own comments

Join in and write your own page! It's easy to do. How? Simply click here to return to Progesterone faq.


Search over 7,500 pages on this site...