Eliminating Copper with Progesterone Therapy

by Ruthie
(Northern California)

Hi everone! I want to thank Wray for her wonderful website. The information, research and tips have greatly benefited my husband, my two year old daughter and me. I want to propose an idea that may shed more light on the excessive and even relentless estrogen dominance symptoms that many people still experience, even on very high doses of progesterone.
My husband and I found your website and immediately grabbed hold of the concept. I was on the verge of resorting to anti-depressants for my severe PMS that was a rollercoaster for us both every month. We didn't question and both began taking Wrays advise. My husband started at around 20 mg per day and I started at 200. We also made sure we were getting enough vitamin D. We each began taking 20,000iu per day. We both began getting estrogen dominance symptoms and within 2 weeks I was at 800mg and my husband at 80. We had found the dose that worked for us. And for almost exactly 2 months, it was wonderful. Very little estrogen dominance. Our only symptom was slight irritability when we got close to needing another dose.
But then something happened. The symptoms began to return. Of course Wray said this may happen, so we continued with our doses. They were very high already and we did not want to increase more due to cost. So we delt with them. After about a week however, I began to recognize that our symptoms, which do appear as estrogen dominance symptoms, seemed to fit more with copper elimination symptoms. I would like to propose that the estrogen dominance symptoms that seem to continue for weeks or months, are actually your body eliminating copper. It is what I have perceived and also how my husband and I have been countering our symptoms. And its working for us. Let me explain.
About a year ago, I went on a nutritional balancing progam based on hair mineral analysis testing. This program was working well, and doing what it was intended to do which is balance the major mineral ratios and my oxydation rate. It would have probably eventually worked on my severe PMS, but that often took years on the program. I could not wait that long as my PMS was litterally ruining my marriage. So I began to look in another direction, which led me here.
In my year on the program, I learned a lot about copper toxicity. I was diagnosed with hidden copper toxicity and during that year, I did begin to eliminate some of that copper. This is why I believe that I am recognizing our symptoms, not as estrogen dominance, but rather copper elimination. They look so similar.
The doctor who did my hair analysis is Dr. Lawrence Wilson. He has an excellent website with a wonderful page on copper elimination. ( ) In his article, he gives specific recommendations for dealing with copper elimination. He also talks about symptoms. My husband and I began to get extremely fatigued. We would get nausea and diarrhea. Gas, sleepiness, digestive issues, insomnia. Our livers felt bogged down. The symptoms would change hourly. Sometimes we would have a ton of energy and a few hours later, could barely stand due to fatigue.
Once I recognized this, My husband and I began following his guidelines. We began supporting our liver with milk thistle, taking b-6 to counter the copper and I began doing coffee enemas. My husband also stopped the cream for a couple of days, just to allow his liver to catch up. We have found that doing this greatly reduced our symptoms. So much so that my husband has been able to reduce his progesterone by half and I am beginning to cycle my progesterone with little to no symptoms.
Another thing that we also did was to add Dr. Wilson's basic supplements. He has a free program recommendation in this article ( ) It includes Kelp, calcium magnesium and zinc. We also added about 500mg of potassium because we do not eat the recommended 70-80% cooked vegetables that he suggests, (I just don't want to. I'm not a rabbit.). This is really important if you are eliminating copper, because copper depletes potassium very quickly. It also depletes zinc. If zinc or potassium get too low they will throw off your calcium & magnesium. Its all inter-connected. Also, Dr. Wilson recommends coffee enemas, which I must say, are AMAZING! Especially while eliminating copper and/or estrogen. I know it sounds weird, but they are so relaxing and you can feel the relief that it gives your liver. It really speeds up the elimination of toxins.
So, how did I come to the conclusion that our symptoms actually were from copper elimination, and not estrogen dominance? Well, it is a well known fact that as estrogen levels rise and fall, so do copper levels. That information is available here on So if progesterone is an estrogen antagonist, that means it causes the body to eliminate excess estrogen. Well if the body is reducing its estrogen, it should also begin to eliminate copper in order to keep it balanced with estrogen. That's when I began to realize that maybe upping the progesterone caused us to release even more copper. I also realized that this had the potential to be very dangerous, if we did not assist our body's elimination of the copper. Copper that circulates in the bloodstream on its way out is extremely poisonous and very distructive to the body. I also realized that I already had all the information that I needed for properly dealing with this process. This gave me hope and piece of mind and I wanted to pass the information on.
Now, I am not saying this is happening to everone or will work for everone. I have done some research, but not like Wray. I could be completely off base, but approaching our symptoms from the copper elimination perspective seems to be working very well for both my husband and me, and with my current understanding, it just makes sense. Wray, I would love to hear your thoughts and get your insight on this. You have so much wisdom. Thanks, Ruthie.

Comments for Eliminating Copper with Progesterone Therapy

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Dec 19, 2013
"Too Much Copper."
by: Patty

Thank you so much for that info on excess copper and being careful with elimination!!

I just had to say that my first introduction to nutrition came when I was 18 and had my first SEVERE DEPRESSION episode which lasted for 6 mos.
I thank Jehovah God because, I know that He motivated a kind
woman in the Kingdom Hall I attended at the time as one of Jehovah's Witnesses to secretly give my mom money to help us see a nutritionist.
Prior to seeing a nutritionist, I visited a regular MD that suggested I see a psychiatrist because of my telling him I had feelings of what I now know is called "depersonalization."
Well, to my relief at the time, I first went to see the nutritionist the friend in our congregation recommended.
Before I left his office, I asked the nutritionist what could cause the feelings of depersonalization. He very calmly and confidently answered, "too much copper."
That was one of the most wonderful things I could hear!!!
TOO MUCH COPPER was causing me to have mental confusion.
Guess what kind of pipes we had growing up???
You guessed it, COPPER!!!
Then when I got into reading Dr. John Lee's books about EXCESS ESTROGEN causing EXCESS COPPER, the puzzle was JUST STARTING to FIT TOGETHER!!
Even now, if I start feeling strange like that, a Prometrium capsule or natural progesterone cream takes it away almost immediately!!!
I feel SO BAD for people with Schizophrenia because I know a huge piece of that puzzle is that they are SOOOO OVERLOADED with SO MUCH COPPER that it causes one of the worst and scariest of mental illnesses!!!
I always knew my hormones were wacky since puberty and now I'm going through the last horrible phase of peri-menopause/menopause.
I truly hope this helps teens male or female or anyone who has never understood the extreme scariness of depersonalization or other things caused by excess estrogen and copper!

Dec 28, 2013
by: Christin

Who did you go see?

Jan 07, 2014
Answer to Christin
by: Patty

Christin, I went to a nutritionist named Dr. Anderson in Virginia. This was back in 1980. He has since passed away but I believe what got him into nutrition is that he had cancer.

Nov 04, 2014
Thanks Ruthie
by: Susie

Thanks for sharing, Ruthie. I've been treating copper for a couple of years now without adding progesterone. Now I've added that, hopefully I'll begin to see some more health benefits. I agree Dr Wilson's stuff is good, very informative

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