Slight Incontinence

by Caroline
(Canyon Country, Ca, USA)

Hello, I hope some can help me with my question.
I had a full hysterectomy (removal of ovaries, uterus & cervix) 7 wks ago. My doc prescribed Vivelle dot (estradiol usp patch) which I've been on for 6 wks. I recently learned of natural progesterone thru my acupuncturist who referred me to dr. John Lee's book at which point I've been diving into research on the net and I stumbled on your site (thank you for the wealth of information you have provided).

About a week ago I started apple cider vinegar with water for detoxification. I got natural progesterone cream usp from my acupuncturist (ingredients are not as good as Natpro but they aren't too bad). I started the cream 3 days and since then I've been having a bit of incontinence and it always happens at mid day for about an hour. My question is: do you know if the use of natural progesterone cream in combination with the Vivelle patch be causing the slight incontinence?

Very grateful for any information you can share.

Comments for Slight Incontinence

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Aug 14, 2013
Slight Incontinence
by: Wray

Hi Caroline It would help to know why you had the hyst, as the problem which caused it's removal is still with you. Removing the uterus removed the symptom, not the cause. I still can't get my head around the fact women are only given oestrogen after a hyst, and not progesterone too. Their ignorance about the roles progesterone plays is appalling. They just think it's a Pregnancy hormone, and is involved in Menstruation, and nothing more. I've not heard of adding progesterone to oestrogen causing Incontinence, but oestrogen itself does cause it, see our page on HRT too. These are some papers here, here, here, here and here. I'm not sure how much progesterone you're using, but please watch for any Oestrogen Dominance, it can come out of the blue. We also have a page on Menopause you could look through. Thanks for the kind words about the site. Take care Wray

Aug 15, 2013
Reply to Wray
by: Caroline

Wray, thank you for your quick reply. To answer your question: I've had fybriods for several a years now but they started giving me issues a couple of years ago (pain, uncomfortable during sex, and most recent prior irregular and heavy periods). When I decided to do the hyst I had no idea menaposeal symtems would be this bad. By the way, I was taking 40ml a day of nature Proesterone cream but when I starred the incontince I got of the cream and went back on the patch. U should know that during surgery my bladder was perferrated (.7mm) which dr decided to have me wear a catheter for 4 wks to allow it to heal. Inner lining of bladder is healed (outer lining is at about 65% healed); dr instructions is to pee every few hours for the next few more wks to allow bladder to heal completely. Am seeing my uralogist today to address incontince...it might also be a UTI. I started experiencing lack of appetite and nausea for 3 days now & it has gotten worse to a point of not sleeping. I spoke with my OB this morning - he said it could be side affect of the patch...he wants me to get off the patch for a wk or so to see if the nausea will go away. I didn't realize that when first using progesterone cream things will be worse before the level out. Based on info u sent me, I would need to taking 100-200 ml a day. I have been on the patch for appx 7 wks, if I do the cream with the patch at the high dosage how much time do I need to transition of the patch? Honestly am not sure I can do being off the patch until I have enough Proesterone in my sys to sustain me. As bad as estrogen it keep me from going insane (anxiety, suecidal thoughts, everything). I can't wait for the Natpro to be available.
Thank you Wray.

Aug 15, 2013
Continued from Caroline
by: Caroline

Hi again Wray. After I wrote my last comment on web, I took patch off as I realized th emits common side effects are nausea, loss off appetite, etc. I took 80 mg of progesterone cream (Progensa 20 by AllVia) thus far today and I plan to take more before bedtime. My husband ordered the Natpro for me today so am hoping it will arrive very soon. Systems have subsided with cream but not completely gone. My urologist said urine tested negative for bacteria and ultra sound looked good. He was puzzled on why am dripping urine only between certain hours of the day (2-6 pm). I leak quite a bit during that time but not any other time ( maybe a drop or two here and there). Anyway, he wants to do a pelvic exam tomorrow (I'll keep u posted). Good night for now...I pray for a decent night sleep.
p.s. I can't thank you enough for your support.

Aug 17, 2013
Continued from Caroline
by: Wray

Hi Caroline I'm relived you've removed the patch. Although it's usually best to do it slowly, cold turkey is not harmful. Besides you hadn't been using it for too long. I'm happy to hear symptoms have subsided, it does take time for them all to go, 6 months for me. But then I wasn't using the high amounts I now suggest, I was going by the recommended 20-40mg/day back then. Pleased the urine tested negative for bacteria, but you could still have inflammation. This isn't always caused by a pathogen. This is a long shot! But what do you eat for lunch? If high in sweet, starchy carbs it could be causing you to retain water as blood glucose goes up. Excess water in the tissues could prevent the sphincter closing. Although low vitamin D contributes to incontinence, and excess oestrogen, it's the odd timing you experience that makes me wonder about food. It would be interesting to hear if it's gone now you're off the patch, so please keep in touch. Thanks for the kind words. Take care Wray

Aug 27, 2013
Post surgery
by: Caroline

Hi Wray, Yahuah bless you for your dedication to your website to help people (just when I think I read everything I realize i haven't). I had updated you thru Joy (wonderful lady) on my status. I had my surgery to repair my bladder on 8/22 and am now home recovering with a super-pubic catheter. Been using Natpro since Fri night (8/23); there've days where I took 11 ml/day. I hope I won't need that much permanently as it will be difficult to maintain once i get back to work and I won't be able to afford it. In looking at your site today, I discovered other supplements I might be low on or that I can take to alleviate the panic, anxiety symptoms that I've been experiencing. I still don't have much of an appetite but I think that's a result of the surgery...I'll give it another week it should come back by then. Just so you know, for the past couple of years I've been on a non-GMO and organic diet for the most part (I do my darnest to eat healthy - very little refined sugars if any at all). Also, my family and I use supplements from Z-Naturals (great site - you may find it useful). I've noticed dry throat, eyes and noes - am I using too much progesterone? I'm going to look into the other supplements mentioned on your site to further alleviate the anxiety, etc symptoms so I will be well enough to function at work when I return in oct.
I hope the weather is good wherever you live.
Yahuah bless you and yours.
Caroline

Aug 28, 2013
Post surgery
by: Wray

Hi Caroline Yes Joy is such a help, thought I was going to go bonkers at one point! I love your 'super-pubic catheter', that did give me a chuckle! It is important to use a high amount of progesterone initially to overcome any Oestrogen Dominance, or reverse existing symptoms. But once things are under control, it should be reduced slowly. Far too costly to continue using that amount! Glad you're avoiding the GMOs, it's only if people boycott it, will it die out, it certainly won't come from any government. Far too much invested. I didn't realise you had panic and Anxiety. There are a number of nutrients listed on the page which help, inositol cures panic attacks, progesterone very good too. I think it's because both help blood glucose. If this drops too low, too quickly it causes a rush of adrenaline, hence the panic. Dry eyes etc are an oestrogen dominance thing. In it's worst form it's called Sjogren's syndrome, see here, here, here and here. Low vitamin D is found in Sjogren's, see here and here. Have you had a test done, please do if not. A lack of it reduces the benefits of progesterone, which generally means less progesterone is needed if levels are high. The weather, well I live in Cape Town, and it's been pouring with rain for two days now, and in for two more days I gather. Hope yours is good! Take care Wray

Aug 28, 2013
Reply to Wray
by: Caroline

Hi Wray, thanks info. Cape Town sounds lovely about now (am in California - been in the hundreds lately so being coupled up at home with AC isn't helping the dryness am feeling) :). I was tested on vit D before my 1st surgery (may 2013) & was low so doc put me on 50000iu a day for 15 days & then 5000iu daily after that. I tried taking the quistionare on your site but it wouldn't let me howevere I got an auto reply from you thanking me for taking it. While I was in hospital for my second surgery (8/22) they took blood and I asked doc to chech vit D & glucose levels...still waiting for results.
I've been reading on supplements that would help me coupe with anxiety, etc.
With all my gratitude. Caroline

Aug 29, 2013
Slight Incontinence
by: Joy

Hi Caroline

It's been such a pleasure helping you, just wish more people would trust us enough to use the amounts we suggest as you have. Those dry eyes etc are all due to estrogen dominance as Wray mentioned. As soon as progesterone becomes the dominant hormone, things will improve greatly.

A tip, something that I have done myself for sometime now and have started to tell people, especially when their adverse symptoms return, is to rub your entire body with the cream at night, then revert to the usual amount that you use daily. I do this once a month and find that it gives me a boost and helps to keep progesterone dominant. It works for me and to those I have suggested it to, try it, it might just be what is needed to nail this!

As for our weather, I am waiting for Noah's Ark to arrive any minute, it is hectic here and set to continue for the next two days.

Wishing you love and light.

Aug 29, 2013
Rely To Joy
by: Caroline

Thanks Joy. By changing diet and supplementing the body with good stuff suggested from the site...will I be able to get to a point to reduce progesterone cream to a manageable level to where a tube will last me a month? can't imagine you're still taking the same amount of cream from when you first started (at the rate am going - a tube is lasting me 5 days). Thanks for the tip on rubbing cream all over body at night...will try it.

Stay dry :)

Thanks
Caroline.

Aug 30, 2013
Slight Incontinence
by: Joy

Hi Caroline

OK something tells me that you perhaps have not read the How to use Progesterone page. A tube will last you 20 days at the minimum amount of progesterone suggested which is 100/ml per day. A lot of women make the mistake of making that tube last a month and of course it is not enough progesterone therefore symptoms return as estrogen has been allowed to rear it's ugly head!

Once progesterone has become the dominant hormone and you feel stable enough, you can slowly reduce the amount of cream to a level that suits you. It will then be up to you to find out what amount suits you best. Different symptoms require difference amounts, the more estrogen one has the longer it takes.

Take care.

Sep 01, 2013
Reply to Wray & Joy
by: Caroline

Hi Wray & Joy, wanted to give u an update on my progross...I've been on 14ml a day for the past 4 days. Yesterday, I started to reduce by 1ml; I plan to stay on 13 ml for 5 days before I try to reduce another 1 ml and so on. Am still home recovering from my bladder surgery (glad you got a kick out of my super pubic catheter); it really is a catheter that comes out of my Low abdomen (so I have a tube coming out of my tummy for few more weeks :)). I am taking D3 as well. I purchased a better D3 and other supplements mentioned on your site for anxiety but I started to pee too much so had to stop as I have to be careful until my bladder is completely healed (don't to stress it) at which point I will stat on them again.
Take care and thanks for the info you've forwarded to me.
I'm sure everyone is wondering when Natpro is going to be available again.
Many blessings to you both...Caroline

Sep 02, 2013
Reply to Wray & Joy
by: Wray

Hi Caroline Thanks for the update, always good getting feedback. That catheter sounds too awful! Interesting about peeing too much with the supps, I've not heard that before. Ironic when you need them you can't take them, but best to give your bladder a chance to heal. I did hear it should be back in stock today, but who knows I can only hope so. It drives me demented knowing how people rely on it. Let us know how you get on. Take care Wray

Sep 05, 2013
ProgesterAll Natural Balancing Cream
by: Caroline

Hi Wray, have you heard of ProgesterAll cream? Apparently it's the only cream that the Family of Dr. John Lee would endorse. I am trying to come up with a backup plan to Natpro as it is still unavailable.

Appreciate your advise.

Sep 07, 2013
ProgesterAll Natural Balancing Cream
by: Wray

Hi Caroline I do know ProgesterAll and Dr Lee's family produce it. It is half the strength, so you would need to use double the amount to get the same amount of progesterone. The stock outs are occurring too often, but there's nothing we can do about it. The cream goes via the post to the fulfilment house and anything can upset it's arrival. I wish this wasn't so, it causes me much anguish. Take care Wray

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