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Severe Endometriosis/ Taking 2000mg Natpro Per Day and Still Having Problems/ What's a Therapuetic Dose?

by Hopeful for Help

August 1, 2013

Dear Wray,

Thank you for your time, your helpful website, and your product. I have searched your website and forums at length and will continue to do so, because I have gleaned such a wealth of information.

Even so, I was not sure if I had found the best answer for my specific situation, so I thought directly asking you my question might be worth a try.

I tried to make this note as short and as concise as possible while still providing clarity. Here is an explanation of what's going on with my body as well as my main question:

I am a petite female and am only 26 years old, but have suffered and am continuing to suffer greatly to put it mildly.

After a lifetime of misdiagnoses, the whole of my marriage being filled with worsening illness (and we've been married for a long time), and being bedridden for a lengthy period (essentially more struggles and symptoms than I have strength to mention), I was recently and finally diagnosed correctly with a very severe case of endometriosis via laparoscopy.

Following the laparoscopy, the doctor wanted me to take Lupron Depot, and then for my husband and me to get pregnant as soon as possible. The doctor offered no other alternatives, even when I pressed for holistic therapies.

After tons of prayer, some research, memories of my background filled with poor tolerance of birth control (taken years ago) and strong drugs, and basically too many reasons to list, I ultimately refused the Lupron Depot treatment.

I continued my journey to find healing, came across your informative website, and ordered Natpro.

*I should note that my husband and I are not doing anything to prevent pregnancy at this point.*

When an ovulation predictor urine test detected my LH surge around the time I was already expecting to ovulate (which was almost two weeks ago), I began taking Natpro for the first time. I started off with about 300mg total of Natpro per day, and estrogen dominance symptoms increased.

I had originally tried not to go over 400mg of Natpro; I knew that going over 400mg of Natpro would cause my menstrual cycle to cease, which would mean my husband and I would not be able to get pregnant for a while, and we love kids. Thus, I thought that I might try taking the Natpro only during my luteal phase.

However, the estrogen dominance symptoms became unbearable for me, so I increased my Natpro dosage some each day whenever the estrogen dominance symptoms flared.

(During this beginning period with Natpro, I should note that if I went without Natpro for an extended period of time (a few hours), my body was hit with an absolutely debilitatingly painful bout of nausea.)

After the severe estrogen dominance flares, I ended up thinking that maybe taking a higher dose of Natpro (at least 500mg per day) continuously for 2 to 3 months (or maybe even 4 to 6 months) might really be the best option for me until my estrogen dominance symptoms decreased or disappeared (even though I had not wanted to originally follow this route).

Now, I am up to about 2000mg of Natpro per day total. I have stayed around this 2000mg of Natpro per day for more than a few days. I divide the 2000mg up and apply these doses hourly over the course of the day, except when sleeping.

(When I wake from sleeping in the morning, I often have terrible estrogen dominance symptoms, and, then, I don't start to feel even halfway okay until 8 to 10 to 12 to 14 hours later, and sometimes not at all.)

I thought I saw small improvements here and there since using Natpro, which, for me, is amazing.

However, I am having lots of increasing pain and cannot even sit because of the pain, (This is about the time when my menstrual period would be due.), severe fatigue, sometimes drowsy and feeling delirious in the worst kind of way, brain fog, constipation, water retention, very severe eczema flares on hands and lips (I have stayed away from sulfur dioxide for a long time, so I know sulfur dioxide cannot be causing the eczema flares.), extremely exacerbated coldness in my extremities that feels absolutely miserable (which I'm thinking is Raynaud's phenomenon acting up, which sometimes turns into extreme heat and pinkness since using Natpro), painful neuropathy flares, a sensation of shaking and pain while falling asleep (which might also be neuropathy), severe mood swings, anxiety attacks, hot flashes and increased sweating (which I have never had, and I am just dripping at times; this is also a miserable feeling), food cravings (and I eat extremely extremely healthfully), migraine pain, TMJ exacerbation, a metal taste around my jaw that won't go away, waking up anxious, insomnia, only able to sleep for a few hours and then only to wake feeling so sick and "wide awake", and severe nausea among other symptoms.

Also, I'm beginning to wonder if my hair is falling out; I'm hoping I'm just in that hair phase where shedding occurs, but now I'm not so sure...

I'm concerned that symptoms do not seem to be improving very much and are in many ways worsening.

*I am especially concerned about this as I am using a very high of a dose of Natpro (2000mg per day), and it would seem the vast majority of the people on the Natpro forums seem to have found a much smaller amount of Natpro to be therapeutic.

Also, my husband and I cannot afford for me to use this high dose of 2000mg of Natpro every day forever. In addition, I want to eventually get back to having a menstrual cycle at some point especially if we get a false pregnancy test in the upcoming week or so.

***My question is how do I know when I have reached a therapeutic dose of Natpro?***

Should I continue to increase the dose, since my pain and other symptoms are increasing? If so, how much do I increase it each day?

Should I stay at the amount I'm taking (about 2000mg per day) and hope symptoms subside?

I would love to work my way down to somewhere closer to 500mg per day at the very least. Should I slowly decrease the dose by no more than about 30mg per day (to prevent miscarriage--if I am already in the early stages of pregnancy--and/or to prevent even more estrogen dominance symptoms) until I get down to around 500mg per day?

I increased my Vitamin D intake from 5000 IU per day to 10,000 IU per day a week or so ago. I also just started taking L-Cysteine 500mg per day a few days ago, because I believe I read about L-Cysteine being helpful in treating endometriosis on the Natpro website.

Thank you so much for your time, expertise, product, helpful website, and for taking the time to try and help my husband and me.

Your website, product, and expertise have been such a help already, and any insights you have will be greatly appreciated.

God bless you.

Sincerely,
Hopeful for Help

P.S. Perhaps, this information would be valuable to you as well: My gallbladder was surgically removed about 5 years ago. Sadly, I look back and think that it was taken out unnecessarily by the doctors.

Thank you again for your help and expertise! I feel absolutely miserable and am desperate to get well.

P.P.S. I've had such severe symptoms that I am up to 3500mg of Natpro.

Comments for Severe Endometriosis/ Taking 2000mg Natpro Per Day and Still Having Problems/ What's a Therapuetic Dose?

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Aug 03, 2013
 Severe Endometriosis/ Taking 2000mg Natpro Per Day and Still Having Problems/ What's a Therapuetic Dose?
by: Wray

Hi there Good heavens! You've had an appalling time, but where to begin. Firstly let me say that the amount of progesterone you're using is safe, see here. What interests me is you say "the doctor wanted me to take Lupron Depot, and then for my husband and me to get pregnant as soon as possible." It's the last phrase, did he say why, that the high progesterone levels will help the Endometriosis? Can you confirm you've only been using the Natpro for 2 weeks. Starting from the 400mg/day and how long you've been on the 2000mg/day? I take it the 3500mg is very recent? Let me go into a bit of background on your symptoms in the hopes it might explain things. The nausea and pain is caused by substance P, it's a nociceptive, neuropeptide. Nociceptive means pain arising from the nerves. Neuropeptide meaning it's a peptide (protein) which affects the nerves. It's found in all nerves particularly the endings. Not much is known about it, or why it should be necessary. Or why it should be so prevalent in some women. Although oestrogen does stimulate it so that could be the reason, see here. Substance P inhibits progesterone, see here, but if enough is used, progesterone suppresses substance P, see here. "Accumulating evidence indicates that the neuropeptide substance P is predominantly involved in neurogenic inflammation and pain perception...... Intriguingly, decreased pain sensitivity is found to be associated with high plasma progesterone levels. We hypothesize that progesterone may attenuate nociception and associated inflammatory response." A lack of magnesium causes substance P to rise, see here and here. This would increase pain. It sounds as if your magnesium level could be very low, do you take any? Please you could have a test done, and one for vitamin D too, they work together. I don't believe the 10,000iu is high enough, but before you increase it please have that test. It's so important to know your level. Please read this excellent page here on water retention, oestrogen and progesterone. Continued below
Aug 03, 2013
 Severe Endometriosis/ Taking 2000mg Natpro Per Day and Still Having Problems/ What's a Therapuetic Dose? Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there Your body is now very inflamed, did they check for any markers such as CRP, malondialdehyde etc? You need very high doses of antioxidants, very high, to bring the Inflammation down. You're taking NAC, but only 500mg, you'll need at least 2000-3000mg/day, but increase slowly. You'll need at least 2000mg/day taurine too, this is vital for the uterus. You need to get your vitamin D level up very high, 100ng/ml, maybe even higher initially. I feel you need magnesium too, so take 800mg/day, plus have baths in Epson Salts too, about 3 handfuls. Try to get a 25kg or 50lb bag from a farmer's co-op, it's cheaper that way. In fact all the supplements are far cheaper in powder form, you'll never cope with all the capsules you'll have to take. You say you have more pain when your period is due. This is because oestrogen peaks ±7 days before bleeding. You evidently have far higher oestrogen than most, there are a few nutrients which bring it down. You could try taking calcium D-glucarate. Oestrogen is metabolised in the liver by glucuronic acid, the process is known as glucuronidation. Glucuronidation is one of the major detoxification pathways of the liver. It removes carcinogens, toxins, tumour promoters, the sex hormones ie, the androgens and oestrogens, mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids, aromatic and heterocyclic amines, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, various nitrosamines, drugs, fungi etc. It's then excreted in the bile, but an enzyme in the intestine called beta-glucuronidase reverses the glucuronidation process. It breaks the glucoronide bond between a toxin and glucuronic acid, and releases carcinogens, toxins and excess steroid hormones back into circulation. Calcium D-glucarate inhibits beta-glucuronidase, see here, here, here and here. Incidentally this enzyme is produced by undesirable gut bacteria, supplementing with probiotics suppresses the bacteria, and subsequently the beta-glucuronidase. Silymarin from milk thistle also inhibits beta-glucuronidase, plus it helps the liver detox. Oestrogen is broken down into 2 principle metabolites, 2-hydroxyestrone (2-OHE1) and 16-alpha hydroxyestrone (16alpha-OHE1). 16alpha-OHE1 is regarded as a potent oestrogen, whereas 2-OHE1 is a weak oestrogen. DIM increases levels of 2-OHE1, by doing so it also increases the ratio of 2-OHE1:16alpha-OHE1. Continued below
Aug 03, 2013
 Severe Endometriosis/ Taking 2000mg Natpro Per Day and Still Having Problems/ What's a Therapuetic Dose? Part 3
by: Wray

Hi there This increased ratio is associated with a lower risk for breast cancer, see here. Other studies have found a protective role too. So you could add DIM too. They wanted to give you Lupron. This is a gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist. It causes a dramatic reduction in oestradiol and testosterone levels by increasing the gonadotropins LH and FSH. Initially there is a flare of symptoms caused by a sharp increase in oestradiol and testosterone. But the high level of gonadotropins finally suppresses oestradiol and testosterone. Identical to the flare of oestrogen dominance symptoms when first using progesterone. But what is not apparent to the medical profession, this would also result in a dramatic decrease in progesterone levels. Normal levels of LH and FSH are needed to stimulate egg production and ovulation in the ovary. But high levels of these hormones suppress not only oestrogen and testosterone, but ovulation. Without ovulation no ovarian progesterone is produced, the first list of symptoms here are almost all indicative of low progesterone. To explain a bit about oestrogen, it's a mitogenic, excitatory, inflammatory hormone. Whereas progesterone inhibits mitosis, calms and is a potent anti-inflammatory. Oestrogen stimulates glutamate, our most excitatory neurotransmitter, see here. It destroys beta-endorphin neurons in the brain, these produce endorphins which promote a feeling of well being and relaxation. And it increases free radicals, see here. Progesterone protects against glutamate toxicity, it also increases BDNF (brain-derived neuroptrophic factor) in itself protective, see here and here. If glutamate is too high, it allows calcium, an excitatory mineral, to enter the cells. Progesterone also protects against calcium induced excitotoxicity, see here. This can increase inflammation. Oestrogen is converted from testosterone by the enzyme aromatase, in both men and women. Women make more testosterone each month than oestrogen, but aromatase converts most of it. It appears your aromatase could be too high, was that checked? Progesterone is an aromatase inhibitor, see here, but appears to be overwhelmed by all that's going on in your body. Continued below
Aug 03, 2013
 Severe Endometriosis/ Taking 2000mg Natpro Per Day and Still Having Problems/ What's a Therapuetic Dose? part 4
by: Wray

Hi there If your aromatase it too high, there is a safe aromatase inhibitor you could take, it's called methylseleninic acid, see here. This is an excellent article here on detoxifying oestrogen. Although I do not agree about taking phytoestrogens. Yes they do bind to oestrogen receptors, and being 1000 times weaker prevent the more potent endogenous oestrogens from binding, but they still have an oestrogenic affect. Avoid all processed dairy products, in particular milk. Most milk in the US has bST or bovine growth hormone in it. bST increases levels of IGF-1 which stimulates aromatase production, see here. Have they checked your testosterone levels, particularly the free portion? It could be you are producing more of this than you should be. The level might not be high, as it appears it's all being converted to oestrogen. Both oestrogen and testosterone bind to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin), if this is low it allows both to rise. Progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone. But SHBG drops if sugars are eaten, even those found in all grains, legumes, processed milk and sweet starchy fruits and vegetables. Fructose, sucrose and glucose, reduce SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. Thereby allowing testosterone to rise. It's best to avoid all the foods and sugars mentioned. Low SHBG is a marker for Insulin Resistance. Wine and beers contain carbs, so it's best to avoid those too. Plus alcohol affects hormone levels in women, see here and here. It decreases progesterone levels and increases androgen levels, both the total testosterone and free testosterone become higher. Sugars and large meals also drop progesterone levels, see here. Plus insulin drops levels too, see here. This means SHBG also drops, testosterone rises, another vicious cycle. Please consider going on a Ketogenic Diet. Continued below
Aug 03, 2013
 Severe Endometriosis/ Taking 2000mg Natpro Per Day and Still Having Problems/ What's a Therapuetic Dose? Part 5
by: Wray

Hi there This reduces blood glucose levels to the barest minimum, glucose is the most damaging substance there is. It also means it keeps insulin levels very low too, insulin, like IGF-1 and oestrogen, causes cells to proliferate. This would only exacerbate the endo. The Keto Diet a very high fat, moderate to low protein and very low carb diet. Only the good fats should be used, i.e. MCT oil, coconut oil, butter, olive oil or macadamia oil. The first three are saturated fats, the other two mono-unsaturated fats. The best is the MCT oil, an extract from coconut oil. The body converts the fatty acid into ketones, in fact the brain does better on these than glucose. MCT oil forms ketones more efficiently than the other oils. The diet varies from a 4:1 ratio of fat to protein/carb down to a 1:1 ratio which is the easier to follow. These are a few papers on the diet, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here. here here, here and here. Please try to incorporate as much of the above as I've suggested as soon as you can. It's far too costly to continue on that amount of progesterone, although we do give a 30% discount on 20 tubes, it still works out expensive. Above all have a vitamin D and magnesium test done soon. Bless you for the kind words, I only hope what I've suggested helps further. There is so much more I could add, but I think I'd better end, otherwise I'll be adding indigestion to your symptoms! Take care Wray
Aug 08, 2013
 Part 1-Thank You So Much / Worsening Health/ I'm Pregnant / Taking 4100mg of Natpro per Day
by: Hopeful for Help

Part 1
August 8, 2013
Dear Wray,

I cannot thank you enough for your response. Thank you so much. I have felt very alone as I've navigated the pathways to wellness. I have hit many dead ends. Your response means more to me than you know.

I have not responded to you until now, because, initially, I was just trying to processing the wonderful wealth of information you provided; then, almost immediately, my health became drastically worse--very suddenly (Please see below.). Even now, I wish I had more strength to give you more thorough responses. I'm using any slightly lucid moments I have to compose this letter.

***Honestly, I can barely function. It is absolutely all I can do to simply eat, drink, and just use the restroom at this point. I'm not even doing those things very well. I haven't even had the strength to take a shower in many days. (Even if I did have the strength to shower, I apply so much of the Natpro progesterone cream and apply it so often that I'm often afraid I'll wash the cream off before it has been fully absorbed.) I've no strength to even look up health information. Hopefully, I can have some of the tests you mentioned run very soon. I'm wondering how I'll even make it to the doctor in my current state.

***I did want you to know that I took a pregnancy test three days ago, and, amazingly, I got a positive. I took another one yesterday, and it was positive also. It appears I am now about 5 weeks pregnant (3 weeks since conception)--when all of the pregnancy symptoms would begin, which is why I believe I suddenly feel much much worse.
Aug 08, 2013
 Part 2
by: Hopeful for Help

Part 2
I am now up to 4100 mg per day of Natpro, but feel I am barely hanging on. I have been very nauseous, particularly today. Yesterday, I had tons of diarrhea, which has continued a bit into today. The diarrhea is very new for me. I had it nearly all day long yesterday and woke up with it again today. I am also having very frequent and extremely intense crying spells, which concern me. I am feeling much more depressed. I don't feel like these crying spells are good for my health or the baby's. I feel they are hormonal to be sure. I feel even more sapped of my strength, and I had next to none to begin with. Needless to say, I'm a little worried and have thought, "How will I be able to survive when the baby is here if I'm like this now?" I am trying to remain calm.

I believe the high dose of Natpro (4100mg per day) is definitely helping. I think I'd be vomiting my guts out and possibly miscarrying without the Natpro.
However, should I increase the Natpro as I'm still having so many problems (diarrhea, crying spells, nausea)? At least until I can start some of the supplements you mentioned?
I am just slathered in the Natpro cream to the point that it is caking on me, but I am willing to apply more for relief and to keep my baby safe.

Does this pregnancy news change any of your suggestions? Does it change any of the supplements you wanted me to take or, perhaps, the dosages? (Magnesium, vitamin D, L-Cysteine, taurine, calcium D-glucarate, Ketogenic Diet, etc.) I just incorporated a non-GMO prenatal vitamin two days ago.
Aug 08, 2013
 Part 3
by: Hopeful for Help

Part 3
I was also advised to go off of my allergy medication when I found out I was pregnant. I am allergic to dust, but am sensitive to many more irritants due to my immune system being so poor. Since going off the allergy medication, I initially felt like I was in a dizzy, drowsy stupor, dropping things, and nearly falling many times. I initially tried 3 teaspoons of organic apple cider vinegar one day to hopefully boost my immunity and maybe help keep the histamines at bay, but stopped that--wondering if it exacerbated my diarrhea. I really think the diarrhea is more hormonal than the anything. I was also thinking about maybe trying nettle leaf tea to maybe boost my immunity and to hopefully give me help with the histamine response. Do you have any suggestions for this allergy/histamine issue?
Aug 08, 2013
 Part 4
by: Hopeful for Help

Part 4
I did want to try to answer some of your questions though.
In answer to some of your questions:

1.) The doctor wanted me to get pregnant after Lupron Depot treatment, because this doctor felt that Lupron Depot treatment followed by pregnancy suppressed endometriosis growths in women for an even longer period of time than if women were just treated with Lupron Depot alone.

However, the doctor never specifically said that high progesterone levels were what would help my endometriosis.

Even so, if I remember correctly, the doctor wanted to supplement me with an oral progesterone pill during Lupron Depot treatment, because this doctor felt that my progesterone levels would probably plummet during Lupron Depot treatment.

2.) Within slightly less than two weeks, I went from 300mg of Natpro to 2000mg of Natpro and then to 3500mg. As previously mentioned, this wasn't my original plan, but the estrogen dominance symptoms became unbearable.

3.) Yes, going up to 3500mg was rather recent, around July 31, I went from 2000mg to 3500mg one night when my symptoms were so extremely severe that I felt I just couldn't take it anymore.

In that desperate moment, I was experiencing an extreme hot flash. I had been having hot flashes all day (remember I'm only 26), but this one was the worst. At the same time I was having the worst hot flash, I was
experiencing an extremely painful and maddening exacerbation of Raynaud's phenomenon and neuropathy.

I felt I had to increase the dose as the suffering was so great. I can hardly explain it, but it was beyond terrible.

I increased to my Natpro dose to 4100mg on Aug 3, 2013 because of a migraine that nothing would get rid of. I felt I had to do something to stop it.

I have stayed around 4100mg ever since.
Aug 08, 2013
 Part 5
by: Hopeful for Help

Part 5
4.) I try to take magnesium citrate 800mg in 2 to 3 doses every day for constipation. One of my doctors wanted me to start taking it to relieve the extreme constipation I was experiencing. If I start having diarrhea, I usually decrease the dose slightly. (For example, I decreased the magnesium citrate to 400mg yesterday, because my diarrhea was so severe. I don't know if this was the best idea or not as you feel I should stay 800mg per day. I was just desperate for diarrhea relief. I was concerned the diarrhea would trigger uterine contractions.) I have been on the magnesium citrate a few months. I have never had my magnesium levels checked. Also, I have been taking epsom salt baths as I am able for months. I have never had my magnesium levels checked. What's the best way to check magnesium levels? Bloodwork I'm assuming?

5.) I had my Vitamin D levels checked years ago. I was told that my levels were low and was put on a measly 2000 IU. Thank you for the suggestion that I might need even more than 10,000 IU.

6.) Sadly, I do not believe I have never had any of the other markers you mentioned tested. I thank you so much for being so detailed and observant in your assessment of my situation.

7.) Every time I eat unrefined organic coconut oil I get sick. I do not know why. Technically, I show no blood tests that indicate that I'm allergic to coconut or its oil, but I have problems with it every time I eat it. My stomach hurts, I get nauseous, and/or I feel like I cannot breathe when I eat it. I know how good it is for the body, but I even have tried it on my skin and I break out in a rash. I do not know why.
Aug 08, 2013
 Part 6-Last Part
by: Hopeful for Help

Part 6-Last Part

8.) I also do not really eat dairy. On the rare occasion that I do, I always eat organic dairy so as to avoid the hormones you mentioned.

9.) I was told my testosterone levels were low almost two years. The doctor was going to simply supplement me with testosterone cream, but I refused to take the testosterone cream.

10.) Where can I purchase powdered supplements? I had briefly started searching for them online days ago before becoming sicker. I previously saw you mention it on another post and think it's a great idea.

11.). I have no gallbladder. Does this affect how my body handles bile? This question may not make any sense. I just feel so weak right now.

As Natpro is out of stock, I've ordered Progestacare like you recommended on one of your pages. I've found the Emerita to be a bit too greasy in large doses, and the texture seems to aggravate my neuropathy. I'm praying the Progestacare works, because Natpro is such an amazing product.

I want you to know that I truly found everything that you wrote including the links you provided most fascinating and incredibly helpful. I will be returning again and again to study them as I am able. I only wish I was more lucid at the moment. Then, I might be able to answer your questions and communicate with more clarity. Both my husband and I are however, extremely grateful for your response--much more than I can even express. You've been a light on a very dark path.

God bless you!

Sincerely,
Hopeful for Help
Aug 09, 2013
 P.S. (Technically Part 7)
by: Hopeful for Help

Part 7
P.S. I am very underweight and have been underweight since the endometriosis continued to worsen. I have also had a hard time gaining weight. I thought this might be useful information to you.

Thank you again! God bless you!
Aug 10, 2013
 Part 1-Thank You So Much / Worsening Health/ I'm Pregnant / Taking 4100mg of Natpro per Day
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks so much for filling me in with such detail. It's an extraordinary amount of progesterone that you're using, but if it helps you, then so be it. I take it when you applied it for the migraine it did help? The diarrhoea can be due to the magnesium, unfortunately that's one of it's side effects! But progesterone can also cause it too. The reason being oestrogen causes water retention, drawing it from the gut which causes constipation, and holding it in the tissues. Progesterone is an excellent diuretic, now given to Traumatic Brain Injury victims to prevent or reverse any oedema that forms. The nausea is of course caused by substance P, stimulated by oestrogen, which I mentioned. I'm delighted you're pregnant, amazingly quick. That would be due to the high luteal rise which is essential for successful implantation, see here. Pregnancy of course changes the hormonal outlook, I do hope your symptoms calm down soon. I feel your vitamin D is probably still too low, please have a test as soon as you can. Taurine is essential for the foetus, in particular for the newborn child. It's an essential amino acid for neonates, they cannot convert it from cysteine, so get all their needs from the mother's milk, see here, here, here, here, here and here. The weakness or myopathy you have is generally a result of low progesterone and vitamin D. It can't be the progesterone, see here, here and here. Continued below
Aug 10, 2013
 Part 1-Thank You So Much / Worsening Health/ I'm Pregnant / Taking 4100mg of Natpro per Day Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there This last abstract has nothing on it, so I've pasted a passage from the paper which I bought... 'Substantial relief of myopathic disability by progesterone therapy'.....
(We report about a 41-year old woman who was suffering from a general muscle weakness since her early childhood....From July 1998 until July 1999 the patient was treated with progesterone suppositorium 0.4 g once a day from the 14th to the 25th day of the menstrual cycle. In July 1999 her gait had improved significantly and she could get up from a chair more easily, even her ability to walk up and down stairs had improved....Progesterone dosage was increased from 400 mg to 600 mg. In January 2001 the patient reported enthusiastically about the improvement she had gained from progesterone-therapy. The patient reported a clear increase in strength in all affected muscle groups resulting in dramatic functional improvement.) So this makes me suspect your vitamin D is still too low, see here, here, here and here. I really don't think you need more progesterone, you do need to check your vitamin D though. A lack of this reduces progesterone's benefits. I had severe myopathy after having my daughter. And crying spells too, although they were worse when going through peri-menopause. It's just occurred to me, please have a copper/zinc test done. Excess oestrogen causes copper to rise, both suppress zinc. Excess copper causes Keep taking as much magnesium as you can, plus the Epson Salts baths. The NAC would be a good addition as you do have inflammation, plus it's the precursor to not only glutathione, but taurine too. Often a lack of vitamin D increases allergic reactions, it's vital for the immune system. So too does excess oestrogen, interestingly women going through Peri-menopause find they can get allergic reactions to things which never bothered them. Oestrogen is an excitatory, inflammatory hormone. Magnesium levels can be checked via the blood, or a hair analysis. I find the best site for most supplements is LEF, they often have them in powder form. Continued below
Aug 10, 2013
 Part 1-Thank You So Much / Worsening Health/ I'm Pregnant / Taking 4100mg of Natpro per Day Part 3
by: Wray

Hi there Please check your prenatal vitamins for vitamin A, usually they add it. Far safer to take beta carotene, vitamin A inhibits the uptake of vitamin D, see here, here and here. The Keto Diet would be excellent, it will benefit the baby too. If you find coconut oil affects you, then use the other good fats. You might find the MCT oil doesn't, so use that instead. The doctor must have known the high progesterone levels in pregnancy would help your situation. And at least he realised taking the Lupron would stop it's secretion. I'm so sorry about the pain you're experiencing. Another woman has just written in with bad endo, and had gone up to 1500mg only to find the pain too intense. She can't afford more progesterone, so I've had to ask her to reduce it slowly until she's no longer using it. The gallbladder as you know stores bile in readiness for food with fat in it. Sensing fat in the gut the gallbladder contracts and empties it's contents into the duodenum. Without a gallbladder bile will be entering the gut all the time. You might find nausea occurring if you have a fatty meal, as there's not enough bile to cope with it. I have heard very recently from someone else that the ProgestaCare is thick and sticky. If I recommended it I must have been mental, as it contains phenoxyethanol as preservative. This was banned in June 2008 by Ecocert for use in natural and organic skin care. I'm so sorry about the stock out, I had thought we were over them, as we made a double batch last month, but evidently it wasn't sufficient. It's wonderful people are finding the Natpro good, but not that we don't have enough for demand. I don't think being underweight would directly affect your problems. But would mean you have little reserve to counter them. Extreme Stress saps energy and nutrients. Which is why you would need to eat a nutrient rich diet, plus take large doses of antioxidants to counter the inflammation stress causes. Bless you too, and I do hope things settle down soon, please keep in touch. Take care Wray
Aug 16, 2013
 First Trimester: How Can I Decrease My Progesterone Cream Dose from 4100mg per Day Safely and More Quickly Without Going Crazy?
by: Hopeful for Help

August 16, 2013
Dear Wray,

Thank you once again for the wealth of information. I am still processing it all. However, I do find all of the information you provided to be incredibly invaluable and helpful. Thank you so much!

I am also still in "survival mode," and I hope, once I feel better, to respond to your previous wonderful reply much more thoroughly in the future.

I do have an important question right now though:

As previously mentioned, I was diagnosed with severe endometriosis via laparoscopy not long ago, I am now around 6.5 weeks pregnant, and I am taking around 4000 mg to 4100 mg of progesterone cream per day. (I prefer using Natpro primarily, but use other brands, Progesta-Care or Emerita, when Natpro is out of stock.)

Like you mentioned, this is an extraordinarily high dose that I am taking.

I am currently want to lower my daily dose of progesterone cream, because I am finding that I am putting on cream for hours and hours and hours at a time, which is *very difficult to manage.

However, I am unsure about what would be a safe amount of milligrams to lower the progesterone cream by per day, especially since I am in my first trimester. I do not want to miscarry due to decreasing the progesterone cream dose too quickly.

I did start lowering my dose of progesterone cream by 30 mg per day not long ago. I am currently down to about 3920 mg. I seem to be doing fine when lowering the dose by 30 mg per day, but wonder if I could decrease by more milligrams per day.

I would like to decrease the dose more quickly, because, at the rate I am currently decreasing the progesterone cream dosage now, I feel doomed to endless months of solely slathering cream all over me for countless hours per day.

The application of such a large amount of cream is truly maddening at times, especially when using other brands besides the wonderful Natpro. Not only do I feel like a sticky, oily, dirty mess the vast majority of the time (which is exacerbated by my neuropathy-like symptoms), I am truly beginning to feel sub-human, as it feels that all I am doing is putting cream on myself all day, everyday, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week.

Since I am in my first trimester, how can I decrease my progesterone dose safely and a little more quickly without "losing my mind?"

Thank you for your time and expertise. I truly appreciate it. God bless you!

Sincerely,
Hopeful for Help
Aug 17, 2013
 First Trimester: How Can I Decrease My Progesterone Cream Dose from 4100mg per Day Safely and More Quickly Without Going Crazy?
by: Wray

Hi there Please don't feel you have to respond fully to my info, I know how you're feeling and all you have on your plate right now. If the 30mg/day reduction is fine, which is approximately 1 millilitre, I suggest increasing to 1.5ml or about 50mg/day. Try this for a few days and see how you get on. If it's still fine, then add a further 1/2 to 1ml reduction, which would be 16-33mg progesterone if using Natpro. Each time you reduce you need to stay a few days on that amount before reducing again. I'm in a little cottage which doesn't have internet, so I'm working off line at the moment. The I go and find an internet to send my answers, so please forgive me if I repeat myself! I can't remember if you've had a chance to check your vitamin D level, and if it's high enough. It's so important to get it really high, it increases the benefits of progesterone too. Plus it will help the inflammation and the foetus. And what about the NAC and taurine, are you taking those too? They will help the inflammation, plus taurine is so vital for the growing foetus. I do admire your patient and persistence, but having to rub all that cream on! I must say I'm delighted you like the Natpro The stock outs always give me such anguish, knowing what it's like to run out. I do believe it's back in again now. Please let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

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