Progesterone or desiccated thyroid?

by Robyn
(Mandurah Australia)

I have been using DHEA, PREGNENOLONE, PROG in a troache for about 3 months with absolutely no improvement at all. My hair is getting thinner by the day my mood hasn't changed I'm always tired and still gaining weight. I have now started using about 1 measure (not sure what the 1 measures on the applicator) of cream still nothing. I'm at a point where I will try anything.

I was also diagnosed with Hashimotos. I have been taking Iodine and my levels have improved, I have been told they are well within the normal range. TSH 2.53 FreeT4 12 FreeT3 5.0. Could it be that even though my levels are 'NORMAL' I may need desiccated hormone? I am totally confused. I feel just dreadful and the Drs I've seen will not entertain the idea I may need something other than progesterone. If there is no improvement there has to be something other or more than a progesterone deficiency, so you would think. I know I need progesterone as my results came back 0.1.

Comments for Progesterone or desiccated thyroid?

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Jun 06, 2010
Progesterone or desiccated thyroid?
by: Wray

Hi Robyn. It doesn't surprise me you are not responding. Firstly I don't believe troches are the best delivery system, as much of it gets swallowed. Most of the progesterone entering the gut is destroyed, the liver metabolises the rest. Please see here. Secondly you should not be taking DHEA, as it converts to both oestrogen and testosterone, and it can cause cysts and cancer, please see here.
And here.
And here.
Thirdly, although pregnenolone is the precursor to progesterone, it's also the precursor to DHEA. All autoimmune diseases are low in both vitamin D and progesterone. Interestingly a lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. Please see here.
And here.
And here.
As you live in Australia you have undoubtedly been ultra conscious about applying sunscreen and covering yourself when outside in which case you will be very low in vitamin D. Please have a test done, as I think this could be another reason you still feel dreadful. Try taking this before taking the desiccated hormone. Depending on your level you'll need between 5000-10000iu's per day. For more information see here. Take care, Wray

Jun 07, 2010
Hashimotos
by: Anonymous

As some one with hypothyroidism and hot flushes-menopause, I think I can help. When I started with thyroid problems it took them 5 years to diagnose me as my levels were also normal. But I was started on a very low dose of thyroxine and it really helped, suddenly came back to life. Please don't give up nag the drs to death. I also use progestrerone cream to help my hot flushes and that works well.
But start with thyroxine if you can. Get your pulse checked, mine went as low as 50 after I had run upstairs!

Jun 07, 2010
Should I begin
by: Lorrie

Hello Wray, do you believe that I should try the progeterone in the cream to rub on my arm and if so, how long will it take to have my body not gain weight any longer? I did have more patience and I felt better. Now I am feeling impatience and irriability.

Jun 09, 2010
Hashimotos
by: Wray

Thyroid function does slow down during peri-menopause/menopause, as the excess oestrogen we have then suppresses it. The low level of progesterone would not be helping either, as that has a slight stimulatory affect on the thyroid, plus suppressing the oestrogen. Low vitamin D also causes hypothyroidism, please have a vitamin D test done. For more information please see here. Low vitamin D also reduces the benefits of progesterone. Take care, Wray

Jun 09, 2010
Should I begin
by: Wray

Hi Lorrie. It's very difficult to give you an answer, as I don't know why you are putting on weight. Although it does speed metabolism slightly, and suppresses any excess oestrogen we might have, progesterone is not a remedy for weight gain. I also don't know why you felt better and now feel irritable. Maybe you have insulin resistance, you might like to see a web page we have on it here. Take care, Wray

Jun 27, 2010
Hypothyroidism
by: Maria

Hi Robyn
My daughter has done the rounds of supposed 'specialists' in Canberra and the surrounds. Like you, she has gained nothing from their feedback. The first four specialists told her there was nothning wrong with her. Despite that they were happy to take her money. She eventually, through reading and cross-referencing with me, reached her own diagnosis. Then, through a forum on the internet, she found a doctor in Sydney who diagnosed her with very severe hypothyroidism. She is now on medication, but also like you, she has not lost weight and her once-gorgeous hair has not grown back. Because of this I have been doing my own research. I'd be very happy to share my findings with you. These are findings that go to the root cause of the condition, rather than treating the symptoms, which is what is happening with you and my daughter right now.

Jun 30, 2010
Hypothyroidism
by: Wray

Hi Maria Many women are now taking matters into their own hands, it seems we have to. The internet has been a godsend to us. You say you would be happy to share your findings with Robyn, will you share them with all of us? You probably saw my own research leads me to believe it's a lack of vitamin D, this increases parathyroid hormone, which slows the thyroid down. A lack of vitamin D also causes weight gain, or difficulty loosing it. Has your daughter tried inositol and N-acetyl cysteine, both these benefit hair enormously. Take care Wray

Jul 16, 2010
Hashimotos
by: robyn

Hi Marie, Thank you for your comment. I would really appreciate if you would share your findings with me I have been on this round about for years and still am looking for answers. Thank you so much.

Jul 16, 2010
Vit D
by: robyn

Hi Wray, I did as you suggested and had my Vit D tested and needless to say I only registered a 40 mmol/L The report indicates the normal range is between 50-150. I have seen another Dr since I mentioned to you I am not having a lot of joy with just using the Progesterone cream. She has put me on a lower dose cream 1.6% 1ml daily. She also mentioned that because of my age I don't need anything stronger. The previous cream was 3.2% I am 59. I have noticed since I have been on the lower dose my arthritis pain has now returned. I am torn between not knowing if it is the Progesterone deficiency or Hashimotos which is causing me the most grief. As mentioned the Drs have about as much or less idea than I do on how to treat the problem . Thank you.

Jul 21, 2010
Vit D
by: Wray

Hi Robyn Oh thank you for doing that. And those reference ranges came out of the ark! Using the new ones it shows you are critically, if not dangerously short of vit D, and I think this explains your problems. Please see the ranges now given by vitamin D authorities...

Sufficient - 50?100ng/ml or 125-250nmol/L
Hypovitaminosis - less than 30ng/ml or 75 nmol/L
Deficiency - less than 25ng/ml or 62.4nmol/L

So you should be taking 10,000iu's per day to get it into the 125-250 range. 5000iu's is the normal dose for a normal level, ie it will keep it above the minimum of 125nmol/L, but you have a long way to go to reach even this level. This is advice from Dr Cannell, a foremost vit D researcher... "Levels should be above 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L) year-round, in both children and adults. Thanks to Bruce Hollis, Robert Heaney, Neil Binkley, and others, we now know the minimal acceptable level. It is 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L). In a recent study, Heaney, et al expanded on Bruce Hollis's seminal work by analyzing five studies in which both the parent compound (cholecalciferol) and 25(OH)D levels were measured. They found that the body does not reliably begin storing cholecalciferol in fat and muscle tissue until 25(OH)D levels get above 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L). The average person starts to store cholecalciferol at 40 ng/ml (100 nmol/L), but at 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L) virtually everyone begins to store it for future use. That is, at levels below 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L), the body uses up vitamin D as fast as you can make it, or take it, indicating chronic substrate starvation?not a good thing." See Vitamin D council I remember answering your question about the progesterone, both amounts are laughable in your case. In most cases in fact, yes it can help some if symptoms are not too bad. But it won't touch sides if they are. It's no wonder the arthritis pain has returned. All inflammatory, 'autoimmune' diseases are high in oestrogen, a pro-inflammatory hormone, and low in progesterone, in men too. Oestrogen also stimulates MMP's, these enzymes break down tissue, they are needed by the body, but in excess they cause tissue destruction. MMP's are always high in inflammatory disorders, for more info please see our page on Inflammation. And remember low vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. Take care Wray

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