Menopausal lips!!

by Lynne James
(Mutare, Zimbabwe)

I have to tell this as it quite simply astounded me.

I have been lucky enough to just bumble along most of the time as regards menstrual issues etc. Luckily I used to get a small warning before my period ...otherwise I would have just been surprised each month, no doubt at some inconvenience. I am not one to count days etc etc. and didn't pay enough attention to the other signs ...or perhaps didn't have them. Whatever! ...I bumbled quite happily actually.

Towards the end of 2010 I turned 48. I'd had a few 'glowy' episodes during the year - nothing to write home about. Anyway, somewhere around the middle (I think!) of 2010, my lips started to dry out, to the point where I could actually peel layers off my lips, literally .... only the outer layer skin of course, but I could do LAYERS throughout the day. It was bizarre. Nothing I had ever experienced before. They constantly peeled and were dry. I couldn't smile never mind laugh..... and peeled my lips constantly. It's hard not to when they are so scaly! No doubt not a pretty sight. Cracks would then develop at the corners of my mouth.... even less smiling allowed! Nothing anyone gave me helped - and believe me, people offered EVERYTHING!! I have tried most lip balms, all kinds of creams, pure bees wax etc etc etc. My lips were noticeably out of sorts and hard to miss looking at my face. Every now and then I would get a reprieve, my lips would chill out for a time.... for reasons I didn't put together.

I was about to get married in December 2010. My partner suggested that I see a Dr., not for the wedding but probably because I was hard to kiss!! ( only jesting ...he kissed me anyway!) I declined the Dr. option thinking that they could really do nothing. ...... but I did chat to my sister in law! A great move! (often is actually!) and she kind of worked out that this lip thing was cyclical! Huge penny dropped for me, the bumbler! Anyway, Sue suggested that I try Natpro.

I have known about Natpro for some years and have never needed it so have never tried it. I need a good reason and to be driven if I am to do something religiously every day. Natpro requires this, as do all regular treatments.

So ...the long and the short of the story is that I have hormonal lips! ...menopausal hormonal lips! Who would have guessed?? ... I started using Natpro religiously out of necessity (and hope! Sore lips suck!) It is now 16 months. The recovery was swift!

So ...why am I writing now, 16 months later? ...because the hot flushes have returned!! Damn! .... but I already knew they were on their way as my lips started drying out again DESPITE my religious use of Natpro (on my face every morning!). I now bumble a bit less on this important issue in my life (the sore lips that is) and immediately realised I needed to increase my dose - so now apply it twice a day ... and have a tube in my bag just in case. I have probably trebbled my dose since my lips hinted at the need.


Comments for Menopausal lips!!

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Feb 28, 2012
Menopausal lips!
by: Joy (South Africa)

Oh Lynne - did I laugh at your menopausal lips!!!! The benefits of progesterone are truly amazing and endless. Thank goodness you realised that you needed to increase your dose to deal with the symptom. *High Five*

I bet your husband is happy!!! lol

Take care.

Feb 28, 2012
Menopausal lips!!
by: Wray

Hi Lynne Bless you for telling us this! I love your light hearted approach too. It's not something I have ever heard of, but just adds to the growing list of how beneficial progesterone is. You were so like me, as I never knew from one period to the next when it would appear, luckily I usually had a small warning too. Although I was often caught short! Fascinating you observed the amount you were using was sufficient for your lips, but not for the hot flushes. So I'm delighted you are using the progesterone as and when needed. There is no hard and fast rule, it's made out to be so complicated by some, when it isn't, this leaves many women in a confused state. In fact I spend my life untangling the knots people have been tied into. In desperation I wrote a new page recently called Progesterone Misconceptions, to clear them up, well some of them. I think the page will lengthen as time passes! Take care Wray

Feb 28, 2012
Menopausal lips
by: CL

My lips were peeling, too, so I was interested to see I wasn't the only one. Cracking and peeling and painful! Transdermal progesterone cream improved their condition (I'm on high doses: 1000-12000mg/d), however in my case the peeling didn't fully and permanently resolve until I got my vitamin D3 levels correct! I love putting on lipstick again!

Thanks everyone, & Wray especially, for a wonderful website!

Feb 28, 2012
To: CL
by: Annette Canada

Hello CL My goodness so glad I'm not the only on having to use high doses. I swear I was going to become Natpro's highest user and their mascot!!! Never had lip problem's but I've had everything else lol. I use 1200-1400 milligrams a day and have been at this amount for 6 months. I think Joy has used it on her burning tongue as well??? What next... Interesting this topic just came up when I met a woman in a health store that was so red and peeling around her lips. I told her about Natpro and Vitamin d as well. Then I had 2 more over hear our conversation asking me about progesterone. lol
Such desperation out there... Glad we can laugh, cry and vent with one another.. Love you all. xoxo

Feb 29, 2012
Menopausal lips
by: Wray

Hi CL How amazing, you too! And that is a high amount you've used. I'm delighted you started the vitamin D and they improved. I keep repeating people must increase their D levels. In fact Joy has got to the point where she, almost, won't give someone progesterone unless they take vitamin D too! I've just re-read a paper I have on progesterone and vitamin D, and it comes over in this very strongly, see here. The paper says "Although PROG was beneficial in injured VitD-normal animals, in VitD-deficient subjects neurosteroid treatment conferred no improvement over vehicle. A supplemental dose of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D(3) (VDH) given with the first PROG treatment dramatically improved results in VitD-deficient rats, but treatment with VDH alone did not". As another paper says both have a high safety record and both are cheap, see here. I feel they should always be used together. Bless you for the kind words! Take care Wray

Feb 29, 2012
To: CL
by: Wray

Hi Annette Well I can tell you Joy and I have a good laugh when discussing you and your high amounts! And your endless experimenting too, I find that wonderful of you. I think you'll have to become our mascot! But I am delighted someone else had the courage to go against the norm and use high amounts. It really does seem to work, and no oestrogen dominance either. That puts everyone off and I don't blame them. Bless you too for all your encouraging comments on the site! And yes, there is such desperation out there, I do hope they listen to you and find relief. Take care Wray

Feb 29, 2012
Progesterone Rules!!
by: Joy (South Africa)

Oh I do love it when a plan comes together!!

Annette I personally would like to thank you for trusting and believing in Wray and I. We know it works and you believed us, that you so much.

Progesterone rules!!! I would be in a mental institue if it were not for progesterone.

Take care.

Dec 22, 2012
Help Me Understand This
by: Marci

"(I'm on high doses: 1000-12000mg/d)"

How are you getting such a high dose of progesterone using a cream?

Dec 23, 2012
Help Me Understand This
by: Wray

Hi Marci I explained how it's done on the page you started here. I answered this query on the 22nd Dec, and today the 23rd. I can't keep up! If it helps you Zyliss make measuring sets. They have them in millilitres (ml) too, which might make it easier for you. For instance you would need 3 x 1ml for 100mg progesterone if you used Natpro. Do this 4 times a day and you'll get to the 400mg I feel you need. Take care Wray

Dec 23, 2012
Ok
by: Marci

Ok, dear Wray, I am all caught up now I think and I also believe I finally understand this. YIPPEE!! I'm sure I made it SO much more complicated than it really is.

Thanks for your enduring patience with me and I very much appreciate the time you took to explain everything to me. I can't thank you enough!

Dec 24, 2012
Ok
by: Wray

Hi Marci I think you did make it more complicated! But with a brain not functioning as it should, it's so hard to understand simple things we once could. Not until you experience that, can anyone ever understand. I once had correspondence from a woman who was a member of Mensa, i.e. she had a very high IQ. She wrote to me in distress saying that whereas before she could add up a string of figures with no calculator, she simply couldn't do it now. It made her very fearful, thinking the problem was irreversible. Luckily it is reversible. I gave you a link to measuring spoons, but then on checking the site, found they no longer do the metric spoons. I found another and they are only $1.95 per set, see here. I'm thinking we should supply them on the site, it would make it a great deal easier for everyone! Have a lovely Christmas! Take care Wray

Dec 29, 2012
heavy bleeding
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
I'm just wondering if I can use progesterone to stop heavy bleeding.I havent had a period since April this year(52 and menopausal) and have been using natpro for almost a year with great results.
However my hormones have suddenly gone haywire,I was at the birth of my first grandchild so maybe this has caused the problem! I am bleeing extremely heavily for 2 days,I had just started the cream after a 7 day rest.So can I use double dose naptro to stem the bleeding?
Thanks for your help and let me wish you a very happy new year.

Dec 30, 2012
heavy bleeding
by: wray

Hi there I'm delighted the Natpro has helped you. But how interesting about the bleeding occurring after being at your grandchild's birth. I have no studies on this! But it wouldn't surprise me to hear it can affect a woman that way. I have found 400mg/day progesterone is needed to stop heavy continual bleeding. That's 12ml of cream. But I also find at least 2000mg/day NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), 2000mg/day taurine and at least 5000iu per day vitamin D are needed too. The NAC inhibits the MMPs which cause the lining to break down, more info on our Menstruation page. Taurine is low in dysfunctional uterine bleeding, although you are barely out of Peri-menopause where it's the norm. Possibly you still are in P-M. It's normal that after a year of no periods we can say we're in Menopause, although you seemed to be heading that way, until this hiccup. Finally the vitamin D is a potent anti-inflammatory, plus inhibiting cells from proliferating. It might be worth having a test done, as too low a level affects progesterone, as testified by a few women on this page. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care and a happy new year to you too! Wray

Feb 01, 2015
Hormonal imbalance
by: Lisa in Canada

I have had the same problem with lips, and cracking at the side of the mouth. Never use lipstick, only natural lip balms with beeswax, coconut and shea and calendula - all healing balms but no result. I found out I have hormonal imbalance (low cortisol, low dhea, low progesterone) so I am seeing a naturopath who is fixing the imbalance naturally, not giving me the creams or steroids - this is the wrong approach. It's the system that is dysfunctional and not as simple as "you have low ____, just take hormone replacement therapy" this is wrong!
It's like giving someone with a gambling problem more money instead of fixing the gambling problem. I recommend you seek natural methods, a natural doctor - and don't go vegan or vegetarian. Eat a paleo diet that is heavy on the vegetables, don't eat grains or sugar, and see a naturopath, I am already getting better.

Feb 18, 2015
Grateful for your post!
by: Jennie

I've been dealing with what I thought was chapped lips for over 3 weeks- burning, itching lips driving me nuts. Nothing helps! I'm already on Progesterone for Autoimmune histamine progesterone disorder- my initiation into menopause last year, which was 5 months of unexplainable hives on my face, neck and chest. Now a year later, this pops up. I will try increasing my progesterone and pray this goes away!! Thank you!

Feb 25, 2015
Grateful for your post!
by: Wray

Hi Jennie I'm startled, and delighted, to hear you've been given progesterone for your APD (Autoimmune Progesterone Dermatitis). It's always blamed on progesterone and the drug of choice is tamoxifen! I don't believe such a thing as APD exists. For a very simple reason, we make great quantities of progesterone during pregnancy, over 400mg/day in the third trimester. The occurrence of this so called disorder would therefore be far, far higher than it is. But it's extremely rare. Plus I've had women writing in saying their rash cleared while pregnant. It always occurs in the few days before we bleed. Progesterone increases from ovulation, peaking mid luteal phase, then the few days prior to bleeding it starts dropping sharply, please see the Graph we have. It's this drop or withdrawal, which causes all the major symptoms many women suffer from, including the dermatitis. The ratio of progesterone to oestrogen becomes skewed during these few days, with oestrogen dominating. One study which blamed progesterone says "The patient... had recurrent cyclic lesions on the skin... that appeared just before regular menstruation and persisted until a few days after." Ironically the anti-oestrogen drug tamoxifen was given to suppress it. Another study mentions "a significant premenstrual flare of skin lesions", but in this case they acknowledged it was caused by oestrogen, which makes a great deal of sense. The paper ends by stating "Women can become sensitized to their own estrogens; the major clue is worsening of the skin problem premenstrually" Again the drug used to suppress it was tamoxifen, see here, here and here. Another study suggests "the possible impact of estrogen mimetics, in the environment and in food... is associated with mast cell activation" Progesterone inhibits mast cell secretion, see here. I'm not sure how much progesterone you're using but I would suggest about 200mg/day. Please let us know how you get on. Take care Wray

Feb 25, 2015
So glad to find you!!
by: Jennie

Wray, I have not found anyone that understands what I'm going through!! I am soooo grateful to find you!!
The doctors were clueless about my hives when they started last March, and after 8 different meds (each one causing a worse reaction) and 2 rounds of steriods, I finally gave up that they could help me.
I eventually stumbled on a chat room discussion and that is how I discovered it was menopause related. I had started having hot flashes around the time my hives hit but the docs didn't realize the connection. (I have not menstruated since last March).
After blood work to check my hormone levels, I convinced my doctor to prescribe the bio-identical progesterone based on my research and she also prescribed a low dose of DHEA and Pregnenalone. I take 1 gram of progesterone cream nightly. I also started taking a whole host of supplements based on my research about best supplements to take during menopause, including Vitamin D3 with Calcium and Magnesium, Chelated Manganese, Glutathione, N-Acetyl L-Carnitine, Alpha Lipoic Acid & CoQ10 and Wild Yam/Black Cohosh Menopause support. I do yoga nearly daily, eat healthy and organic as much as possible, very little alcohol, & try to get 8 hours of sleep (although I definitely don't sleep as well as I used to).
This cleared up my hives for 7 months, until a month ago when my chapped lips started while attending an intense healing workshop.
After finding this discussion, I doubled my progesterone to 2 grams for about 3-4 days and that made it worse!! My hives started coming back on my face. Yesterday I went back down to 1 gram and the hives are better today, but still dealing with the chapped lips. I'm using Vitamin E on my lips and have to constantly reapply. They are cracking and so painful. I'm so depressed and don't know what to do!!
I appreciate any thoughts you may have Wray! Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Feb 25, 2015
Forgot to say
by: Jennie

Wray, I forgot to mention that I was under incredible stress last year when the hives first appeared and have still not recovered. I am in the process of major changes with relationship and living situation, so am still quite stressed. I'm sure this is contributing. I ordered some adrenal support supplements yesterday, hoping it may help reduce the cortisol. Perhaps that is what is causing this flare up?

Mar 01, 2015
So glad to find you!!
by: Wray

Hi Jennie Bless you for the kind words. Skin problems are the worst to get under control. I had urticaria years ago, when I first started giving talks on progesterone. It turned out I'd caused them due to intense Anger over what the medical profession were doing to women! A TCM doctor rid me of it in three sessions, by ridding me of the anger. I now know not to react when hearing a heart rending, anger making story. A friend in the UK is struggling with her urticaria due to huge Stress too, it's not easy to get under control as the underlying issue has to be addressed. No amount of potions are going to help, they merely soothe. Progesterone does help because it's so calming, but it won't effect a cure. You might like to read our page on Anxiety, it touches on the calming aspect of progesterone. You say you are using 1gram of progesterone cream. If this is the standard 1.6 to 2% strength, then it's only giving you 16 to 20mg progesterone, far too little! And by only applying it to your lips it certainly is not going to do anything. I did suggest you try 200mg/day, in at least two applications, always using some on your lips. Progesterone is systemic, so it's absorbed everywhere. You might need more, only time and trial and error will tell. Please get your Vitamin D levels checked, it's so important for the skin, see here and here, plus a lack of it reduces the benefits of progesterone. If your vitamin D is high enough, you won't need to take calcium as it draws it from the gut. The vitamin D page gives a good brand to take with all the necessary co-factors, calcium is not one of them. High cortisol at night will cause havoc with sleeping. Evening cortisol levels should be checked, as there seems to be a rise at that point in insomniacs. If cortisol is high, zinc can lower it, see here and here. Continued below

Mar 01, 2015
So glad to find you!! Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Jennie Oestrogen if too high will cause insomnia, interestingly oestrogen suppresses zinc. High copper suppresses zinc and progesterone, but increases oestrogen levels. It seems oestrogen is to blame for so many problems, but with good reason. One adverse affect it has is it stimulates glutamate. This is our most excitatory neurotransmitter, but if glutamate is too high, it allows calcium, an excitatory mineral, to enter the cells. This only makes matters worse, see here, here and here. Please check your vitamin D levels! take care Wray

Mar 23, 2015
The saga continues
by: Jennie

Hi Wray,
Thank you for your very helpful information. I am looking into what strength of the bio-identical progesterone cream so I can calculate the dosing, per your suggestions.
I did start applying the progesterone cream on my lips and within a few days, they started feeling better. The are now much better, but not completely back to normal (it's been 2 months since it started).
However, now the hives have returned all over my face.😰They had been dormant for 8 months. I don't understand why they are back.
My doctor gave me a referral for lab work and the cost is $582 to check my fractionated estrogens, progesterone, vitamin D, DHEA-s, THS (thyroid) and comprehensive metabolic panel. I don't have health insurance so am wondering if you have a source for less expensive testing. I'm not even sure the bloodwork is a accurate test since the levels fluctuate so much.
Thank you so much for your time and attention. I think there are so many women suffering with hormone related hives and just have no idea!

Mar 27, 2015
The saga continues
by: Wray

Hi Jennie I can only imagine the hives are back because you're not using enough progesterone. Blood or saliva tests are costly, the labs I recommend are ZRT Labs USA, Genova Diagnostics USA and Genova Diagnostics UK. Birmingham Hospital in the UK do vitamin D tests at a better rate than other labs. Take care Wray

Mar 28, 2015
Such gratitude
by: Jennie

Wray, you are an Angel! God truly gives us everything we need, and you are the only one I've found who understands what I'm going through and is knowledgeable to guide me. Thank God for you!
By adding more progesterone and applying it directly on the hives, they are gone!
I will check out the labs you mention- thank you!!!
I hope our conversation helps other women suffering from hellish, hormonal hives!

Mar 28, 2015
Such gratitude
by: Wray

Hi Jennie Bless you for the kind words! Take care Wray

Jan 31, 2016
Estrogen the robber
by: Anonymous

I often wondered WHY women, as they get older, have thinning lips, lips that seem to disappear.
It MUST be the sufficient supply of circulating they Estrogen in their bodies.
I also believe its the drop of or increase in Estrogen each month that changes a woman's facial features.
I am so convinced of this.
I am so aware of this that I look at beautiful actresses who had luscious,plump lips in their younger days compared to older ones.
Elizabeth Taylor is one, Joan Lunden is another just to name a few.
Ah....when Estrogen is gone....so is youthful beauty.

Feb 01, 2016
Youthful beauty
by: Jennie

In response to the recent comment, I hope we can do our best to remember, as we witness our youthful beauty fading away, that true beauty comes from within. I think the less we resist and the more we accept the natural aging process, while eating and living a healthy lifestyle, will help us sustain our God-given beauty until the body is laid to rest. It's not an easy process (my menopause has been incredibly challenging with chronic hives), and I see the wrinkles appearing and my skin looking so different. I just keep loving and appreciating this miraculous body that enables me to experience a physical body and all the magic that entails.❤️😘

Mar 23, 2016
Menopausal Lips
by: Dogo

I'm delighted to learn what I'm going through is indeed a menopausal symptom - as I'd been worried at my dry, chapping lips and thought something was seriously wrong with me. Thank you.

May 07, 2016
Help!
by: kerry

Oh my goodness...super dry lips, peeling, hurts to eat anything mostly. Only 45 but night sweats etc. anxiety, weight gain, zero patience. Later life birth (18,24,40) hives for 5 months (assumed from essential oils now rethinking that ) ablation in 2012, live birth 2011 at age 40 (18 days shy of 41), diagnosed Graves' disease which cleared on its own, thyroid totally normal currently.

May 23, 2016
Worth a try!
by: Anonymous

Ran across your site today while searching for reasons and possible causes of the struggle with my lips since January. Last time I visited the Doctor he wrote on my paper work "increased anxiety" and sent me to the lab for blood work. I was so angry!! Two dermatologist and one plastic surgeon has diagnosed me as having shingles!! I am going to try the progesterone cream recommended and see how it goes.

May 24, 2016
Worth a try
by: Joy

You will find that progesterone will certainly help you, but please be aware of Estrogen Dominance symptoms. Please also take the time to read the How to use Progesterone Cream page.

Do you know what your Vitamin D3 level is? A deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone as is connected to every single functioning cell in our bodies.

Please read the following pages:

Estrogen Dominance - http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/estrogen-dominance.html#axzz49arB768j
How to use Progesterone Cream - http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/how-to-use-progesterone-cream.html#axzz49arB768j
Vitamin D3 - http://www.progesterone-info.com/benefits-of-vitamin-d.html

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