Hoping i have finally found the answer

by Laura
(UK)

Hi,
My story is a little long, but will try and keep it brief.....
After having my first daughter i then had to have my right ovary removed due to a very large cyst causing it to twist.
Recovered fine periods returned to normal and went on 3 years later to have my seond daughter at 22.

Again everything fine for a few years but then started to get very painful and heavy periods like when i was a teenager. was having pain in my left ovary, periods were still very regular. Had ultrasound, told i had pcos but nothing ever looked into. Pain continued had another ultrasound this time told womb lining was thick!!!! no mention of pcos!!!

The last few years i am now suffering with terrible anxiety, depression, heavy periods(but regular)hair loss, cysts in breasts, facial spots, fatigue, aches and pains..the list goes on and have seen a pattern in the severity of symptoms with my period!!!! i have tried everything and have now been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Everytime i tell my doctor that i feel it is hormone related she just keeps saying it wouldn't be that because of my age!!!!!

So i haven't had any tests done, but i know my own body and thought i would give progesterone cream a go.....I started 3 days ago and am applying 200mg a day,my symptoms have intensified alot, whichmust be the estrogen dominance!!!! I thought this was a good telling sign that all my symptoms have just intensified without any new ones,maybe meaning that they are estrogen dominance in the first place!!!! do you think this is the case?

I am due on next week but am still getting estrogen dominane symptoms so should i stop or continue through period? and lastly just wondered if having one ovary could have caused my hormone imbalance?

I am taking 2x1000 vit d tablets and didn't know if it is safe to take an increased dose.

fingers crossed the progesterone cream starts to work soon as these intensified symptoms are awful but i am determined not to give in
Wishing you all well and thanks for reading my story

Laura :-)


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Jun 28, 2013
Hoping i have finally found the answer
by: Wray

Hi Laura Well all those symptoms you've mentioned, right from the heavy and painful periods when a teenager, are all due to excess oestrogen. How any doctor can say you're too young to have hormone problems because of your age beats me! What on earth does she think causes our periods in the first instance? You don't sound as if you had or have PCOS, none of your symptoms fit. But excess oestrogen does to a T, see our page on Oestrogen Dominance for more info. A thickened lining is due to oestrogen, progesterone is excellent at reversing this. Heavy bleeding is a combo of oestrogen building the lining and the MMPs breaking it down, and too little progesterone to inhibit either. There's more info on our Menstruation page. We have a few other pages you could look through too, Anxiety, Breast Cysts, Ovarian Cysts, Hair Loss and Acne. The aches and pains and 'fibro' are all oestrogen related. It's an excitatory, inflammatory hormone. Progesterone is an anti-inflammatory and antioxidant, and with time will reverse all the above. With a little help from a few nutrients listed on the pages I've given you. I don't know if 200mg/day is enough, you might have to go higher, maybe 400mg/day, see here. But see how you get on with the 200mg. Continued below

Jun 28, 2013
Hoping i have finally found the answer Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Laura You need far more vitamin D, at least 5000iu per day. 2000iu will do nothing for you, besides you live in the UK where levels are generally very low. Birmingham Hospital send out test kits for £25, please consider having a test done, it's so important. It's almost pointless using progesterone if levels are too low, see here, here and here. These are excellent sites if you'd like more info on vitamin D, the Vitamin D Council and GrassrootsHealth. If you would like to chat to someone in the UK about vitamin D and progesterone please contact Julienne via her website here. Take care Wray

Jun 28, 2013
more questions
by: Laura

Hi Wray,
Thank you so much for all the information you have given me. I have ordered a vit D test but could be a while before i get results, shall i take 5000 a day now or wait for results? I have just received my big order of natpro so can increase without the risk of running out !!! would you suggest going to 400 a day? if so for how long and shall i take it throughout my period next week? I woke up this morning feeling alot better, only for all symptoms to return by lunchtime...i think the estrogen is playing games...lol
If i up to 400 daily will i again suffer estrogen dominance symptoms or can it balance it all quicker?
sorry for all the questions, am trying to understand it all.
Thanks again for such a great support network
Laura

Jun 30, 2013
more questions
by: Wray

Hi Laura If you've done the test but waiting for results from it, then you can go ahead and start taking it. Delighted you won't run out of the Natpro, we have been having stock outs which always concerns me. Looking at all your symptoms I do feel you'll need 400mg/day, but if the amount you are currently using is helping then see how you get on. It is trial and error of course, and please keep a watch for Oestrogen Dominance it can come out of the blue. This is my worst aspect of progesterone therapy, as it puts people off. Please use it through your period too, I feel it's more important to get rid of symptoms than worry about your cycle. It will come and go, you might even stop bleeding, as some have found this can occur. It's nothing to worry about. I can't tell how long you'll need to use the high amount, you might like to see these comments here, here here and here for encouragement. So pleased you woke feeling better, but if you find symptoms return at lunch time apply more cream then, or before they return. Use it hourly if need be. Don't forget Julienne is down the road from you, if you need advice and can't wait for me to answer. Thanks for the kind words. Take care Wray

Jul 04, 2013
Update
by: Laura

Hi Wray,
Thought i would update you with progress....
Ok, i increased my natpro to 400 a day and instantly had relief from the intensified estrogen. Am now seeing progress everyday which is amazing because i never thought i would feel normal again!!!! I did continue through bleeding, had spotting a day early but other than that everything was fine.
I also at the same time increased my vit d to 5000 day so maybe it is a combination of both increases. I got my vit d results back today and they are 89.3nmol/L which birmingham hosp said is adequate!!! so wanted to know do i increase, decrease or stay at 5000 a day as am unsure what to do?
Thank you so much for the replies to my questions as i'm sure i wouldn't have had the guts to increase cream without your advice, and would of just felt awful for longer!!! i really think that Natpro is going to be my new best friend.
Thanks again
Laura

Jul 04, 2013
Update
by: Wray

Hi Laura Well your news couldn't have pleased me more! I wish others would 'take a deep breath' and use the 400mg/day, how much easier would my life be! It is amazing isn't it, but please keep a watch for Oestrogen Dominance. I don't like bringing the subject up when someone has found relief, but it can come out of the blue. These are a few things which cause progesterone levels to drop......
lack of or drop in vitamin D
dark days, especially winter, probably because vitamin D drops in winter due to lack of sun
high oestrogen
high testosterone
low SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin), this binds testosterone and oestrogen making them inactive
high LH
high FSH
high stress
high adrenaline (comes from Stress or excitement, and a drop in blood glucose), this stops progesterone entering the cells
sugars of any kind
large meals, because of the increased metabolic clearance of progesterone
alcohol, this reduces progesterone levels and increases the androgens, ie testosterone
high insulin
high level of phytoestrogens in the diet
oestrogenic herbs
oestrogen mimics or endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs)
contraceptives
HRT
insulin resistance
a defective luteal phase
high copper/low zinc
high prolactin
Continued below

Jul 04, 2013
Update Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Laura Ah yes Birmingham Hospital and their 'adequate' levels of 50nmol/L and above! I have written to them and complained, pointing out even the FDA have theirs at 75nmol/L. But it seems they have to go by the NHS standard which is still in the dark ages. Even Prof Holick, ever cautious, has recently raised his level to 100nmol/L to 150nmol/L, see here. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the following websites, Vitamin D Council and GrassrootsHealth. The less cautious suggest blood levels should be 175-250nmol/L. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Suggesting even 40,000iu per day shows no signs of toxicity. If you want more advice and some amazing stories about vitamin D please get in touch with Julienne. She had one prostate cancer patient on 100,000iu per day, and he says he's never felt better. She'll be delighted to hear your story too. She does keep stock of Natpro too, which makes transport quicker. Take care Wray

Sep 28, 2013
Need more advice
by: Laura

Hi Wray,
So sorry to bother you again, but am getting desperate. I have been holding off asking you anymore questions and have just been reading and reading your website... think I know every word!!! I have asked Julienne a few questions, but unfortunately she tells me she will get back to me but obviously hasn't got the time.
I have been applying 500mg a day now for nearly 4 months and am just feeling as bad as when I started. I was taking the calming complex but Julienne has run out at the moment so I have had to stop till more stock arrives!!! I am currently still taking 5000 vit d and 500 magnesium. I have been applying the Natpro 3 times a day daily, I have still had regular periods with some spotting inbetween, not sure if this is a sign that I am estrogen dom still. I am on day 11 of my cycle and have started spotting again and symptoms have intensified again, I do have a regular 28 day cycle even on 500mg natpro. Thought this info might help.
Well anyway, my question is shall I up the natpro or increase the vit d ? I am so tired of feeling so awful the depression and anxiety is crippling me and is just not lifting, but I am so afraid of feeling worse if I go any higher, plus not sure how long I could afford it for. I'm just loosing faith now as I have seen no relief from original symptoms, I have done 4 months and just don't want to give up, but am starting to doubt myself. I have been surviving on the hope that tomorrow will be better, but it never is...
So sorry to bother you Wray but really need your words of wisdom. Hope your well and thank you so much for such a great website.
Looking so forward to your reply
Laura

Sep 29, 2013
Need more advice
by: Wray

Hi Laura I'm so sorry you're struggling so much, I had hoped by now things would have come right. Particularly as on the 4th July you said "Ok, i increased my natpro to 400 a day and instantly had relief from the intensified estrogen. Am now seeing progress everyday which is amazing because i never thought i would feel normal again!!!!" I'm also puzzled as you say above "I have been applying 500mg a day now for nearly 4 months", but in the quote above you said you'd increased it to 400mg/day and only on the 4th July, or 3 months ago, so I'm really confused! What has happened in the interim? And did you ever get your vitamin D results back? Could you tell me what they were please. Maybe they're too low. Please help me out with all my queries. Take care Wray

Sep 29, 2013
update
by: Laura

Hi Wray,
Just thought I would let you know Julienne has got back to me with some good advice. I have had some improvement when I think back especially with my last period it was light and very pain free. Think when I get a good day I loose hope again when I get a bad day and then seem to forget the improvements!!!!! god this hormone stuff really does push us women to the max!!!!!
I am going to up my vit D to 10000 a day for a month, which I am ordering from Julienne. I also have increased my Natpro to 4 tspoons 666mg applied 4 times a day. So hopefully this will help it all along quicker. I am going to keep the symptom chart that Julienne sent me as this will help remind me that things are improving, when i'm having a not so good day, rather than bothering you busy ladies.... but hopefully they will start to disappear altogether.
Thank you for listening to me waffle on.
Laura

Sep 29, 2013
update
by: Wray

Hi Laura I contacted her today and she told me she had. But I had already answered you! The 10,000iu per day should help, it's safe to go to 40,000 iu per day, see here. There will always be ups and downs, just don't let the downs get to you. Take care Wray

Sep 29, 2013
i confuse myself
by: Laura

Hi Wray,
I confuse myself sometimes. I upped the dose to 400mg but felt relief from the added estrogen dom symptoms that the cream had stimulated, but not the original est dom symptoms that I had before I started. Then the est dom kept creeping back so I decided to up the dose to 500mg especially after I fainted with terrible pelvic pain. I have been on 500mg for about 4-6 weeks(should really keep note), thought increasing was the right thing to do, as it would help correct me quicker. I meant I have nearly done 4 months all together on a high dose of Natpro, sorry I wasn't very clear.
Since upping to 500mg I have had some better days but some awful days, but still felt a long way off, however last period was much better, even though I have just had another period 10 days after last, but still light and no pain, so maybe things are gradually adjusting themselves.
I did give you my Vit D results they may have been on my other question "bleeding question" they were 89.3nmol. I have been taking 5000 a day since along with 500mg magnesium, and a month of the calming complex which I am awaiting re-stock. I hope this straightens things out, I have now gone up to 666mg (4tsp) and am going to up my vit D to 10000 like julienne suggested to me. Do you think this is the right thing to do, or shall I take the Natpro back down to 500mg? I think I need to learn to be more patient, I just expected going in high would see quicker results, but I suppose everyone is so different, which must make your job so hard!!!!! I hope I am doing the right thing to keep increasing if the symptoms persist or am I mucking myself up and should just learn patience and just stick it out, cos I suppose I have suffered for years so what is another couple of months, just so hard when you have a bad day, as you think you have gained nothing in all that time, but when looking back, I am but slowly!!!
Thank you so much
Laura

Oct 02, 2013
i confuse myself
by: Wray

Hi Laura Thanks for clearing up my confusion. There will always be good days and bad days in the beginning weeks. No one can tell how long it will last, or when relief will be found. So yes you are right, I find most of my time is spent encouraging people to hang in there! The low vitamin D is not helping, it needs to be much higher. Between 175-250nmol/L, I think you'll find this will begin helping. I'm glad Jules has suggested the 10,000iu, 5000iu is just a maintenance dose. She's been helping a 70 yr old man with candida and he can't believe how much better he feels now he's taking the 10,000iu per day. The vitamin D is not only boosting his immune system, but it's needed by every cell to function normally. Which is bound to make a person feel better. I suggest sticking to the 500mg/day and see if the higher vitamin D makes a difference. Yes you can use a far higher amount of progesterone, but it's costly. It really depends on how awful the symptoms are, but that's something only you can decide. A bad day will always make you feel you've made no progress, but just read back on this page and you'll see small changes, it's not a quick fix for most of us. It took me 6 months to feel normal again. Take care Wray

Nov 28, 2013
Feeling better
by: Laura

Hello Wray,
Thought i would update you on my progress!
Well i have now been on Natpro 500mg for 5.5 months and am starting to feel alot better, depression is lifting anxiety is improving and lots of other symptoms have reduced. This is just amazing as was starting to think that i was going to be stuck like this forever!!!!!!
My next question is when i am completely stable,as am still having some off days.... do i reduce slowly first ( have been taking daily from the beginning through bleeding, but have still had regular periods)and if yes by what amount? or do i first stay on high amount but start following my cycle? i have searched the website for the answer but could not find what is best to do first! because i am so scared of going back to square one, which i just don't want as this has been a very long struggle.
Thank you so much for all you help and advice and i'm glad that you had a break for a while, hope you are feeling better!!!!
For the first time in years i am actually starting to feel like me!! which is all down to you,your great website and Julienne.
Thanks so much for being patient with us all
take care Laura xx

Nov 29, 2013
Feeling better
by: Wray

Hi Laura Well I saw your lovely reply to the other woman who was struggling, just the sort of advice she needed I'm sure. And said how delighted I was to hear you're getting so much better. Thanks for sticking with it, not an easy road at all! The amount you're using is far too high to come off it suddenly to follow your cycle. You will go back to square one, or lower! Only begin reducing when you feel 100% stable. The reduction should be no more than 1ml of cream, or 33mg progesterone, better still if it's half that. Stay on that amount for a few days to adjust, before reducing further. I would suggest you continue down to 200mg/day before attempting to follow your cycle. If it's too soon you'll know by the return of symptoms. Start the progesterone immediately and stay on it daily until stable. Then try reducing to 150mg/day and see if that's better. There's no hard and fast rule, I wish there was! I do hope your Vitamin D is at a good level now, don't forget to keep checking it. Thanks for the kind words. Take care Wray

Dec 03, 2013
Vitamin D
by: Laura

Hi Wray,
Thank you so much for replying, that all makes sense to me and gives me a plan of action to follow when i feel 100% stable, i think i am nearly at the top of the mountain!!!!lol
Forgot to mention my vitamin d in the above post as i had a question about it. A month ago i received my new results, i had increased to 10000 per day and my new results had gone from 89 to 143 in 3 months!!! i thought this was a big jump in a short space of time and got worried about overdosing, so reduced daily intake to 5000. Do you think i did the right thing, or should i go back up now it is winter here!!!! i am going to get them checked every 3 months to keep an eye on them as i am sure this has helped the progesterone results along with taking 500mg of magnesium daily. Any advice on this would be great.
Once again thank you so much for all your help
Laura

Dec 04, 2013
Vitamin D
by: Wray

Hi Laura Well I hope it'll be a quick climb up! Your vitamin D is nowhere near high enough! I told you on the Jul 04, 2013, "Even Prof Holick, ever cautious, has recently raised his level to 100nmol/L to 150nmol/L". And then in the same para "The less cautious suggest blood levels should be 175-250nmol/L." I keep mine in the 230-250nmol/L range. Toxicity is not reached until levels get to 500nmol/L. There is more info on our Vitamin D page. So please start taking the 10,000iu again. Your level increased by about 18nmol/L per month. If you wanted to aim for 200 or 250nmol/L, then it will take you a further 4-6 months on the 10,000iu. The vitamin D has no question helped the progesterone, and the magnesium the vitamin D, that too is so essential. Too many expect progesterone to give them a quick fix, which is won't and without the vitamin D and magnesium, it's almost a waste to use it. Take care Wray

Jan 05, 2014
Hello
by: Jill

Hi Laura! After being so gracious to comment on my page and to offer words of encouragement, I had to come read your page. Good for you for sticking it out. Sounds like a bumpy road that is now smoothing out! I won't lie, I'm scared of that it will take a long time for me too. Its hard now to get through my works days when I still have a ways to go. Its gotten to where I dont want to go to work - a job I love - anymore. Before the cream I only felt bad right before and during my period. Now I struggle with feeling good and the right dose everyday. Its a bit scary and overwhelming. B ut I know in the long run it will be a good thing!

Jan 06, 2014
Feeling better
by: Laura

Hello Jill,

Thanks for taking the time to read my story and I hope it helps you. I have really struggled and felt I was never going to feel better. It does take a long time to start to balance out, wish it didn't, I only stuck it out because I felt this was my last chance at feeling better, I had nothing else to try!!!!
Have you had your vit d checked yet, as that really does help quicker results. what amount of pro cream are you on now? All I can say is I started on 200mg a day which ramped my est Dom symptoms to the max i feltt so much worse which i didn,t think was possible, so I listened to Wray and upped my cream to 500mg which reduced the added est to manageable,and just stuck it out waiting for signs of relief from my original symptoms!
At first it is working so gradual that its hard to notice, I started keeping a symptom diary and noticed that I was actually improving slowly. which helped when I was having a very bad day, just to look back and see the progress.
TAke a day at a time and if you are struggling at work try applying it hourly and see if that helps. if I got my vit d levels up quicker, I'm sure I would have seen quicker results with the natpro. Remember we are all here to help each other and just writing a post and seeing a response helps you through the worst. Hope this gives you some encouragement, take care
Laura xx

Jan 09, 2014
Thanks
by: Jill

Thanks for your encouragement and suggestions.

I wish I would have found this site before I started trying Progesterone cream. I think I would have done things differently! I definitely would have gotten my Vit D levels checked BEFORE I started. Then I would have worked to remove as many xenoestrogens that I could from my life.

THEN I would have tried the cream!

Doing it the way I am- and so many do it-- is really hard. I've had a very hard week and have felt really bad pretty much every day. This is even with increasing how much I am using.

I can only conclude that my D levels need to be brought up-- so in the meantime- maybe the cream isn't doing me any good until I get that done.

Getting through the day at work has been hell on earth and I can hardly cope sometimes. Applying it periodically at work has not helped-- I actually ended up feeling worse today.

I know it tales time to balance out-- but I really wish it didn't! lol

May have to back off a bit and then get levels checked and xenoestrogens minimized. Don't know how else I will be able to make it through otherwise.

I do love the Natpro and how well it is absorbed-- but I can't afford to keep rubbing it on profusely if it turns out its not really helping me because my levels are down or something.

I'm not giving up on it- I just know I can't feel like this everyday at work and make it through! arrrgh!

I know I could try to really up the dose-- but I can barely afford it now. So will see how it goes!




Jan 11, 2014
thinking of you
by: Laura

Hi Jill,
That est dom is being so mean to you!!! i know only too well how it can make you feel, how i carried on for months on end feeling so ill, i just don't know how i did it... i think i just kept hoping tommorrow was going to be the day i felt better and before i knew it i had done 5 months... then 6 months. Feeling better gradually crept up on me, i was too scared at the beginning to just stop the high amounts as i thought i could end up worse than when i started, so that made me stick with it!

It's so hard to advise you, as i haven't got any experience yet with reducing or stopping!!!i think it would be a good idea to reduce slowly, as you were on a high dose. I just don't want you to end up with worse symptoms!!!!! Hopefully when you get all your other levels up especially vit d, then try the Natro again, you might find you get great results quicker!!! maybe that is the secret, as i don't think i have read any posts that someone has had high vit d prior to starting Natpro!!!they all seem to start everything at once. Hope this works for you and do come back and let me know if you have any luck with this approach!!! Wishing you all the best and keep enjoying your job
Take care
Lauraxx

Jan 12, 2014
Thank you again!
by: Jill

Hi Laura! Thanks again for the encouragement!

Still using Natpro. I'm a bit scared of just stopping it too. lol I'm sure that would be a bad thing.

The good news is that the day after I posted how bad a week I was having-- Was much better. It wasn't ideal- but it was a big improvement.

Its probably been harder because of my period. I always have it pretty bad right before and during my cycle-- so that played a role in how bad I've felt.

The bad news was that this weekend my cycle got really heavy with many large clots. uck. It was almost as bad as when I came off of birth control after 7 yrs of it messing up my system!

I could hardly sleep Friday night. I was afraid to move as every time I did- there was flooding.

However-- more good news- it was much better last night. Still fairly heavy- but no clots or flooding so hopefully is getting better!

I've also been under some stress this past week which can lower progesterone level I know. My 18 yr old cat is not doing well and I am having to decide whether to help her to "sleep" or not. So far, just monitoring her. She did start to eat, drink and use the litter box again-- but is moving very slowly and having a rough time.

Will have to see!

I really appreciate the support you have shown. It really helps to just have an encouraging word. :)

Thanks again! :)

Jan 17, 2014
Stick with it
by: Laura

Hi there Jill,
so pleased you stuck with it... What a coincidence I started period at the same time, felt much better but did have a few increased symptoms! Your clots etc is the progesterone clearing old blood, so don't worry I had it and it is all normal.

So glad you are feeling better, I too feel worse before my period and the first couple of days, but it will all improve just take each day as it comes, you will get there!!!!

I'm a animal lover to, so sad to hear about your cat so stressful for you, I do hope she is feeling better and the stress has passed. I know you will eventually balance out and will be so glad you stuck with it. Keep going take care Laura xx

Jan 18, 2014
Thanks
by: Jill

I really do appreciate your encouragement. It means a lot to me!

Unfortunately, my sweet baby kitty went to heaven this past tues. We made the decision to end her suffering. She had a very peaceful last day and passing. I spent many hours just holding her at home. She seemed to find much comfort in that-- and I wrapped her in a soft, warm blanket to go to the vet. She never seemed scared and didn't struggle.

She passed very peacefully. We figure she only had days left but it was good to help her on her way as she could barely move around and eat, drink or use her litter box.

She is missed but I am grateful to have had almost 18 wonderful years with her!

As to my period-- its still quite heavy and the large clots started up again. Uck. I've actually had my period since new years eve. So this is going on for some time now.

I'm going to pick up some NAC and see if that will help. I sure hope so!

I've been noticing some more good changes now as well. I don't get the headaches like I did at first and my breasts aren't so tender anymore.

I'm still not where I want to be-- but there are encouraging signs. My hardest bit is the feeling of being 'unbalanced'-- it has sort of an anxiety feeling to it-- but its not 'real' anxiety IMO-- but hormonally triggered "anxiety".

But I have confidence that that will eventually pass as I make more positive changes and continue to use Natpro.

Jill

Jan 30, 2014
Vitamin D
by: Laura

Hi Joy,
Was hopeing you could help me out. I received my latest vit d results and they have come back at a rather high 275nmol. I last posted my results back in October as being about 143 nmol, i have only been taking 10000 a day as Wray advised this as a maintenance dose, so just wondered if you had any thoughts on why my levels have become so high.
The birmingham hospital phoned me up as they said that i need to stop supplementing for a month to half my levels as i am at toxic levels!!!! getting a little worried, but i do feel good despite worrying that i am going to die from an overdose of vitamin d!!!!!lol
They asked me the amount i am taking and even they could not understand how my levels jumped so high. Would you also suggest to stop for a while, and also shall i continue to take magnesium? Another thing i didn't realise until reading the website that you should also take vit k2? i have not been taking this, what dose would you suggest.
Sorry about lots of questions, just got a little worried about high levels. Apart from this feeling really great on the Natpro, prob my vit d levels pushing it up!!!!!lol
Hope your well and that i have not bored you too much...take care
Laura

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