The hormonal roller coaster

by Natasha
(UK)

Dear Wray, Your website and all the contributors' stories are my only ray of hope that I may indeed feel well again as I approach the menopause. (My GP will only give me anti-depressants because I still have my periods and no hot flushes but I intuitively feel that is wrong for me.) So I thought I should add my story so far to help others.

In hindsight I can see that I've been dealing with oestrogen dominance since my early 40s, (currently 48). I've abdomen weight gain, overwhelming carb cravings. water retention, chronic thrush for over 7 years (well permanent actually that no candida diet/probiotics/anti fungals seem to cure - I've tried that so many times!!!) and in later years crashing fatigue and moderate depression. I put this last symptom down to some very trying life circumstances but now I'm not so sure that is the whole story.

I came across bio-identical hormones by fluke surfing the net one night. I decided to try progesterone cream and from looking at Dr Lee's site, decided on Pro-Gest. I used it as directed for 2 months at the end of last year. I noticed my carb cravings became controllable again and my spots disappeared. I felt better but when the cream ran out, I hesitated in buying more as I am having financial difficulties. (It can be more expensive for UK buyers)

In the 3 months that followed without using cream, I felt so bad. Mostly suicidal and badly depressed, unable to eat healthily. My body craved all that was bad for me, in particular wheat and sugar which have always given my problems. In hindsight, I put this down to the progesterone stimulating the oestrogen receptors again. Does that make sense?

I started using the cream again last month (April) following my cycle and in the 2nd week, my depression vanished and my mind felt like I was in my late 20s. My body didn't but then I hadn't exercised it for months. :-) But I felt so excited and strong. I was easily able to give up all the bad foods, in fact I craved good foods. I was able to exercise too.

I dreaded stopping the cream but I did and 5 days later my depression/carb cravings crept back. From reading your site, I started using the Pro-Gest again anyway but it didn't make any noticeable difference. I've now ordered Natpro from Jean in the UK and I have all my fingers and toes crossed for the benefits.

Curious about experimenting with the levels, I stopped using the Pro-Gest a few days ago (maybe I shouldn't have) but what I've noticed is that I'm getting severe PMS cravings and depression as my oestrogen levels rise. I haven't yet hit my mid cycle. I feel like a drug addict needing a fix of wheat, sugar and plain chocolate and I can't stop crying all the time. What is holding me together is that I understand why I feel like this and that it will change in due course.

The small cloud left on my horizon is the concept that my body will become saturated with progesterone, causing the OD symptoms to return.

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The hormonal roller coaster

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May 13, 2011
 The hormonal roller coaster
by: Wray

Hi Natasha It does sound as if you need progesterone, you've responded so well. And no, you don't need anti-depressants. We do have a page on Anxiety you might like to look at. All your symptoms point to Oestrogen Dominance. Peri-menopause is such a difficult time, as bad as puberty! When we also need progesterone to help us through the rough patches. We do have a page on Candida you might like to look at. Oestrogen exacerbates it, which is probably why you've never had any success at getting rid of it. Progesterone actually helps it. The 3 months without progesterone allowed oestrogen to rise again, hence the problems. Cravings for sugar and carbs, and wheat in particular, is often caused by oestrogen, candida is another cause. Oestrogen also causes PMS and depression too, I couldn't stop crying either. Thank heavens that's behind me! I feel you could do with a month or two, maybe longer, using it continuously. Evidently your oestrogen is high, and your progesterone non existent. We've found from Saliva Tests we run that the ratio of progesterone to oestrogen should be 600:1 and over to feel well. I've used ±170mg/day progesterone for 15 years, and have never experienced saturation. In fact I have on occasion used 2tsp/day which gives 330mg/day progesterone. When I do, I get bad oestrogen dominance, but the symptoms I was using more for, all go. So does oestrogen dominance. I think I can safely say my receptors are working well and I'm not saturated with progesterone! I do recommend using 100-200mg/day progesterone, I've found anything less merely exacerbates symptoms. But it's entirely dependant on the individual and the problems they are having. There's no rocket science to using progesterone, there are so many misconceptions about it. It can be used anywhere, as the skin comprises 95% kerotinocytes, which all have ample receptor sites. It should be used a minimum of twice a day, but hourly is fine if symptoms are severe. Jean is wonderful if you should have any queries, sometimes my answers are 2-3 weeks late. Take care Wray
May 18, 2011
 the ride gets bumpy
by: Natasha (UK)

Hello folks,

I think this is where the ride gets a little bumpy. I've been using progesterone cream again for 9 days. First 3 still with Pro Gest as my Natpro hadn't arrived. That meant I started with a low dose of 20mg per day and then up to 93 and now on 166 per day of Natpro.

On a positive note I love using Natpro. It is lighter and has no smell. It feels luxurious on my skin.

Downside is that since on the higher dosage I feel an emotional wreck. I can manage the carb cravings again and I'm eating better but I want to cry all the time and feel very fragile. Other OD symptoms are tender breasts, bloating and water retention. Period due is 3-5 days but from the way I feel now it could come tomorrow.

I'm not giving up on the cream but now I understand why some women feel frightened when they start using it and do. I certainly wasn't expecting this after my euphoria in April.

Will keep you all updated as I progress.
May 23, 2011
 the ride gets bumpy
by: Wray

Hi Natasha Many thanks for the update. I'm pleased you like the Natpro, we have tried to make it as simple and natural as possible. But at the same time absorb well, we know it does this from the saliva tests we run. I so wish oestrogen dominance didn't occur, I know how you're feeling, but there's nothing else you can do except ride it out. If you can afford it, as I know you are having difficulties, I can only ask you to use more. This can speed things up a bit. I would love to know how you get on, when you have the time. Take care Wray
May 27, 2011
 an update
by: Natasha UK

Hello,

Here's short up date. Its been 18 continuous days of using progesterone cream and 14 days on Natpro. I don't intend to stop it until my symptoms are under control.

My period came a few days early whilst using 1 tsp per day. So didn't need to stop using the cream for it to come. & its still happening, 9 days later but very light now.

I feel flat but not terrible. Lethargic, tired and whilst I can mentally control my food cravings, I'm getting a nawing hunger pang, bit hypoglycemic which no food/meal seems to satisfy.

I'm not sure if this is a candida die off reaction or lack of progesterone. I have totally cut out wheat/cheese successfully, minimised most carbs but have had some fruit sugar, apples and some caffiene, I know all about the strict candida diets and having been on & off them so many times over the past 8 years. I'm mentally exhausted with how rigid they are. I can't face being that fastidious right now.

I'll try increasing the cream and see if that helps too. Will keep you posted. I long for the success I had in April.
Jun 01, 2011
 weight loss
by: Natasha UK

Progress. 23 days constant use of Natpro, 1 tsp per day.

I've lost weight due to sensible eating & cutting back on carbs. 4 ibs in 3 weeks. Very pleased. Aim to lose approx 12 more to feel comfortable in my own skin again.

Progesterone cream has not caused me to put on weight. Wray is right, you have to use enough to stop the cravings and over eating. The cream alone won't make you put on weight.

My mood and mental energy is slowly improving too.

Good luck every one and persevere.
Jun 03, 2011
 an update
by: Wray

Hi Natasha Thanks so much for coming back to me, it does help. Progesterone can upset the cycle, but it's nothing to worry about. If the bleeding should continue for so long next time, please increase the amount you're using. I have found 400mg/day will stop it, although I know you have financial difficulties. All your symptoms point to oestrogen again, plus of course the candida you're battling. One man I helped referred to candida as a monster! It is, as it dictates what foods to eat to satisfy it. I'm not convinced by the strict candida diets, it's carbs they need, ie wheat, fruit, sugar etc. You say you are having some fruit sugar, do you mean fructose? If so then please change to either xylitol (2.4 calories/g) or erythritol (0 calories/g). Both these sugar alcohols are very good sugar substitutes, although more expensive. But the advantage is they kill the bad bacteria in our mouths, in fact they are used to sweeten mouthwashes and chewing gum for this reason. Plus fungi can't live off them, as they can sugar and fructose. An apple or two is not going to harm, and if coffee encouraged candida, then I should be riddled with it! I'm not sure what foods you are eating, but they could be wrong for your metabolic type. You might like to see our page on Nutrition. There are links to three websites, giving to my mind the three best options for eating. I've discovered I'm a protein type, ie I do better on more protein than carbs. So having discovered this, Dr Mercola's site will tell you what you are, I now follow the Paleo Diet, with some of the raw food advice thrown in. This tries to mimic what hunter gatherers eat, in other words the diet we used to eat, before the agricultural revolution ±10,000 years ago. According to Cordain et al, we should never eat wheat or legumes. They were only introduced about 5,000 years ago to the UK and northern Europe, having spread from the Tigris/Euphrates valley where it all started. We are not designed to digest them, interestingly the raw food diet doesn't use them at all either, except sprouts. One thing I feel remiss about, I didn't ask you to have a vitamin D test done. You live in the UK, where almost everyone has a low level, please get it checked. I believe Birmingham Hospital now do it for about £20, alternatively see the Vitamin D council and GrassrootsHealth websites for more info. A lack of vitamin D impacts hugely on our health, one thing it reduces the benefits of progesterone. Take care Wray
Jun 08, 2011
 weight loss
by: Wray

Hi Natasha This is so helpful, getting your feedback. I'm delighted you have lost weight too. You are so right, enough progesterone does have to be used. Unfortunately the web is littered with complaints from women using far too low an amount, and then complaining the progesterone causes weight gain. It can't, it's thermogenic, ie speeds metabolism slightly. Please keep an eye out for Oestrogen Dominance, as this can come out of the blue. Usually due to extra stress, if this should occur please increase the amount until it goes. Take care Wray
Jun 08, 2011
 Thank you and an update.
by: Natasha (UK)

Hi Wray,

Thank you so much for both of your supportive responses. I almost cried because here in the UK I think women are particularly unsupported in this area.

I'm currently having a set back. I'm still taking 5 ml Natpro daily. & have changed my diet to be mostly low carb, high protein diet. I was already familiar with metabolic typing and like you, a high protein diet suits me better. But thanks for the links as I'm always looking for new info.

The only foods I could still cut out for candida are apples, oat crackers (no wheat or trans fats) and rice cakes, plus I'm drinking some caffeine - green tea mostly and some black tea with organic milk.

I started taking pau d'arco as an anti-fungal for the last week. I think it must be very powerful as exhaustion has set in and today I woke up with a raging sore throat. Or just bad luck that my immune system is compromised & I caught a bug.

What I'm finding so frustrating is that my mental energy has returned since taking progesterone cream but my body is saying, no, stop & let me rest. Any attempts to exercise, such as a brisk walk, feels as hard as climbing mountain. I did 30 mins yesterday & today I woke up with a sore throat. & all my muscles, particularly my shoulders ache. For a few days now.

The positive point I'm hanging on to is that progesterone therapy is preventing me falling apart & is maintaining my will power to eat well.

Thank again Wray for all your support.

Natasha.
Jun 16, 2011
 Thank you and an update.
by: Wray

Bless you Natasha We all need as much help as we can get from our friends! Having been through hell and back, I really do know how you feel. Please persevere, I know you will come right. I don't think the food you mentioned will be affecting things unduly, unless it's your only food, which it's not. So pleased you know about metabolic typing too, an excellent view on diet. Your exhaustion could be due to Insulin Resistance, which I see I haven't mentioned to you. Please read through this and see if it rings any bells. And please, when you can afford it, have that vitamin D test done, a lack of this leads in IR. I've had confirmation that Birmingham Hospital does do it for £20, see here. Finally, please send me a message via this link here. It will be forwarded to me if you address it to me. Take care Wray

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