Symptoms Returning w/ Progesterone Cream - Month 2

by Tired of This Stuff!
(Moss Point, MS USA)

Hi,

I am on month 2 of using the progesterone cream. It worked great - instantaneous relief during month 1. But now, during month 2, I had terrible back ache; lots of bloating from water retention; no libido; and noticeable distended abdomen from gas. I am now on Day 6 of my cycle (I am still having some bleeding), and I noticed I am still pretty bloated - such to the point that I had to take a fluid pill today to give me some relief.

Question - should I increase my dosage? I have only been using 20 mg per day - starting day 10 up until 2 days before the start of my period.

Question - can I apply it before day 10 to get some relief, since it appears that my symptoms are coming back sooner that just before I ovulate? Keep in mind, i'm still on my period!

Thanks!

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Dec 13, 2012
Symptoms Returning w/ Progesterone Cream - Month 2
by: Wray

Hi there I have found 20mg/day will cause adverse symptoms to occur in most women, particularly if symptoms are bad. Not even 40mg/day will raise progesterone levels to that found in the luteal phase. There's more info on our page about Progesterone Misconceptions. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. So yes please increase the amount, it is trial and error, I can't tell you how much you'll need. Plus any Stress drops progesterone levels. Progesterone should normally be started at ovulation, which occurs in all women 12-14 days before bleeding. There's more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. But I do recommend using it daily, through any bleeding, for 2-3 months if symptoms are bad. Progesterone can upset the cycle, making it earlier or later than normal, it does settle down in time. If the bleeding continues, you might have to increase to 400mg/day, plus take 2000mg/day NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), 2000mg/day taurine and at least 5000iu per day vitamin D. NAC inhibits the MMPs which cause the lining to shed, taurine is always low in dysfunctional bleeding, see here. And vitamin D is our most potent anti-inflammatory/antioxidant. There's more info on our page about Menstruation. Take care Wray

Dec 17, 2012
Thanks Wray!! Things are Happening!
by: Tired of This Stuff!

I just wanted to comment that I increase the progesterone to 400 mg daily. This month, I am seeing a remarkable difference in my body. Not only am I retaining far less water, but my abdomen seems to be a bit tighter, and my libido is incredible! I haven't felt a desire for sex like this in years. I ovulated on yesterday, and I can actually feel my body - instead of being so bloated with water & miserable that I only want to lie down & sleep - now I actually want to put it to good use! LOL!!

My skin is glowing as well, and I feel more optimistic. Normally, my breasts and back are holding on to sooooo much water that i'm tense all over & need to wear a bra even while i'm sleeping. But instead, this month, I can actually express the excess water from my breasts, and the puffy upper body that I normally have seems to be diminishing as well.

I'm also taking a DIM PRO supplement, as well as systemic enzymes, which I believe I working excellently for my fibroids & estrogen metabolism. I just hope this continues, and the weight falls off, when I start training for my next triathlon!

Such dramatic changes in only 3 - 4 days!

One question, how long should I keep this dossage up?

Thanks Wray for all your help!

Dec 20, 2012
Thanks Wray!! Things are Happening!
by: Wray

Hi there I'm so delighted you responded so quickly, I wish it was always like this. But then you did take my advice and use an ultra high amount. You've asked an impossible question! How long? All I can say is until you feel stable enough to begin reducing it very slowly, too fast and symptoms comes back. Delighted too your Libido has increased, it should, progesterone plays a big role in this. In fact we have many men using it to raise theirs, having found testosterone doesn't work. It is an excellent diuretic too, there's more info on our Traumatic Brain Injury page. In your first query you didn't mention Fibroids, these are caused by oxidative stress, which leads to Inflammation. Oestrogen being an excitatory, inflammatory hormone exacerbates them. Plus it's a mitogen so causing cells to proliferate. Please have a vitamin D test done, it's low in women who have fibroids, and studies have found it shrinks them, see here, here, here, here and here. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. A lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone, plus getting the level up high, less progesterone is needed. Take care Wray

Dec 24, 2012
Progesterone Cream - Losing Hair!!! HELP!!!
by: Wray

Hi there I have to agree with you, I would prefer to wear a wig than go through all that nonsense! I replied to your query on the 13th Dec. On the 17th Dec you said you'd increased to 400mg/day, so that's 11 days ago. In fact you said about your other symptoms "Such dramatic changes in only 3 - 4 days!" Not much time for the increased amount of progesterone to reverse the damage to the hair follicles. The previous two months you were only using 20mg/day, enough to cause Hair Loss. This has probably stopped and new hair is growing back, but not only does that take time before there are any visible signs of it, the hair follicles that had previously been damaged, will still loose their hair, before new takes it's place. The hair loss page I've given you has a list of nutrients which help hair loss. Your other symptoms have improved remarkably quickly, I think you'll find the hair loss slows down soon. Particularly if you take those nutrients. Vitamin D is vital for the anagen phase of hair growth, please have that test done. Take care Wray

Dec 31, 2012
Hair loss on NPC
by: Kooljazy2k

Dear Tired of this Stuff,
I have read your thread and have been experiencing the same problem. The reason I went on NPC was due to premature ovarian failure with severe hair loss for the last four years. I am on my third month of NPC and the hair loss is really severe. I too have been using 1/4 tsp 2X per day on days 12-26 of my cycle. I was wondering if you increased your dosage and if that was effective.

Jan 01, 2013
Hair loss on NPC
by: Wray

Hi there In case 'Tired of This Stuff' doesn't see this post, she did increase the amount to 400mg/day, see her post above.... Dec 17, 2012 Thanks Wray!! Things are Happening! She says "I just wanted to comment that I increase the progesterone to 400 mg daily. This month, I am seeing a remarkable difference in my body". If you are using about 20-40mg/day, which is the normal recommended amount, it will not help. We do have a page on Hair Loss you could look through, it gives a list of nutrients which help. And please have a vitamin D test done, as this is vital for hair growth. You say you have premature ovarian failure, which possibly means you have entered Peri-menopause or Menopause too young? And yet it appears you still have a cycle? I suggest you increase the progesterone substantially, and use it daily through any bleeding. We also have another two pages you could look through on How to use progesterone cream and Menstruation. Take care Wray

Jan 01, 2013
Reply to Hair Loss
by: Too Tired

The dosage increase has helped tremendously. But it will take time. It is only recently that I've begun to see less hair loss, @ the hair that I did not lose has actually started to grow longer & a bit fuller it seems.

I increased to 400 my per day. Sooooo many of my symptoms (estrogen dominance) have diminished. This month will start my 3rd cycle on the cream. I think I will give it one more Month at high dosage, then taper back on next month, And see how it goes then.

Give it time. I hope it gets better for you! Keep me posted!

Jan 01, 2013
Reply to Hair Loss
by: Wray

Hi there I'm so pleased it's still helping you. Please be aware that any stress drops progesterone levels, so more is generally needed to stop symptoms coming back. Please don't forget to consider taking the nutrients listed on the Hair Loss page, particularly vitamin D and inositol. When tapering do this very slowly, no more than 1/2ml per day, ±16mg progesterone. And stay on that amount for a few days before reducing again. Please keep in touch. Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2013
Waxing & Waning
by: Tired of This Stuff!

Seems like this month is better. My estrogen dominant symptoms didn't return DURING my period (as they did last month), but as I approached ovulation, I noticed several symptoms. One of the good ones was the incredible libido, which I am very pleased with because I have been lacking in that area for so many years. Also, my hypoglycemia appears to be well under control now. But once ovulation occured, my fluid retention seems to be returning in the abdomen & breast - the classic PMS symptoms - although not quite as bad as what i've experienced in the past. I currently have 9 days left before the start of the next cycle, and I have backache as a result. I also had some cramping this month that I hadn't had before that I wondered if maybe was due to my slacking on exercise, or other factors. I'm curious as to why this might be happening, as last month, my PMS was barely obvious, and I was hopeful that i'd ridded myself of PMS for life.

I switched from Dr. John Lee's ProgesterAll to Natpro. I noticed that Natpro doesn't appear to be as creamy - a bit more granular - i'm wondering if that has anything to do with it. Maybe, I should just use the cream all throughout bleeding - even if I don't have any issues during menstruation?

Nevertheless, I had a pretty stressful week last week, and I know stress can drop progesterone levels considerably - to add to that a 31 hour international flight. Might be that. My hair loss, which I experienced previously, seems to be almost non-existent.

I purchased 3 tubes of the Natpro, so if I need to go back to ProgesterAll, can I return the unopened tubes?

Anybody have any feedback?

Jan 20, 2013
Waxing & Waning
by: Wray

Hi there Thanks for the feedback. I'm delighted your Libido is returning, progesterone does help, we also have many men using it for that. Progesterone does stabilise blood glucose, whereas oestrogen de-stabilises it, see here. The return of some symptoms after ovulation would be the result of stress, the 31 hour flight would not have helped at all. If you should have stress, even good stress, please increase the amount you use. Better if you do it before the stress occurs, only possible with something like a booked stress! i.e. a flight, an exam, an interview etc. If you are happy with following your cycle, I suggest stick to it. Increasing whenever stressed, and keeping a watch for adverse symptoms in the luteal phase. It's only when symptoms are bad throughout the cycle I suggest using it daily, through any bleeding. But see how you get on this next month. I'm really puzzled about the granular feel, as it's normally very smooth. Please would you let me have the batch number so I can look in to it. We always replace any tubes which are faulty, and of course you can return the tubes. Take care Wray

Mar 08, 2013
Different Symptoms after 6 Months
by: Tired of This Stuff!

I've been using the progesterone cream for 6 months. I have seen some amazing results with respect to water retention; clearing of brain fog; & mood (seem to be feeling more optimistic). But, it appears with my cycle, i'm getting different symptoms around ovulation. The libido spike I was enjoying now seems to be diminished. I don't get as much water retention now, but seem to be a bit gassy-bloated. It may be simply due to the Natpro switch back in December. But starting last month, I switched back to ProgesterAll. Oddly, I think the consistency of the different formulas makes a difference in how readily it absorbs into my skin.

I'm finding that I have to start using it immediately after my cycle ends if I want to keep ovulation symptoms at bay. I decided to increase my dosage by 100 mg each application, and if I feel a little bloated in the middle of the day, I add a bit more then as well. I'm curious to see if during menstruation I will experience in severe bloating.

Any suggestions? My stress levels appear to be normalized. I'm more relaxed. Sleep better. But, I do have to admit that i'm worried about the libido. I was enjoying that aspect ;-)

Mar 09, 2013
Different Symptoms after 6 Months
by: Wray

Hi there The thickness of any progesterone cream does play a role. I can't make out if you are feeling better with the ProgesterAll or not. It is half the strength, so I take it you are using double the cream to get the 400mg/day? We do know the progesterone in Natpro is absorbed well, as we run Saliva Tests. You might consider using the progesterone daily, taking no break at all, even during bleeding. Each time you stop it allows oestrogen to rise again. Once you feel stable you can follow your cycle again. Oestrogen rises exponentially about 50 hours prior to ovulation, making a last minute surge about 12 hours before, see here, here, here, here and here. This surge throws many women into worse symptoms than those experienced the few days prior to bleeding. Progesterone should surge them too, but if a woman is experiencing anovulatory cycles, it often doesn't. Although you are using a good amount, if you're still using the 400mg/day that is, the oestrogen surge can still upset things. The only solution is to use more progesterone just prior to the surge, to counter the oestrogen. Have you had a vitamin D test done yet? It is so important, not only for the progesterone but for libido too. Please read through that page again, it could be your dopamine has dropped to to lack of vitamin D. Take care Wray

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