Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!

by Kay
(Ventura, California,USA)

Hi Wray, I wrote first about polyps in my uterus and the lining being 11.5 I believe. Then I wrote last March that my ultrasound showed polyps gone and lining normal. Now, my recent ultrasound shows the lining is back to 7.5!! My last biopsy was normal but she is talking about another biopsy. I ask to wait until January as I had decreased my progesterone some myself. I am wondering if I should go back to 100mg per day or ask her to increase that. She only wants to wait until January before checking with ultrasound again. Then, maybe the biopsy, depending on the results of the test.

Thanks, Wray, for all your help in the past. Oh, I am 67 postmenopausal.

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Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!

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Oct 27, 2011
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Wray

Hi Kay Well I'm delighted the polyps went and the lining too. But not that it's come back again. I recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone, so would ask you to increase it. Even in Menopause we still make oestrogen in our fat cells, but very little progesterone, certainly not enough to counter any oestrogen. To reduce the lining quickly I would suggest you use the higher amount to begin with, but please watch for Oestrogen Dominance symptoms. These can occur when increasing progesterone. Take care Wray
Nov 16, 2011
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Kay

Thanks Wray. I appreciate your help and all the information. I am using 150 mg per day but I get cramping that feels like menstrual cramps almost everyday. It is mild but doesn't subside without Advil or something. I am wondering if this is from the increase of progesterone or increase of the lining? I plan on increasing to 200 mg per day but wonder if I should go off a few days to see if my body will shed the lining then.
Feb 03, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Kay

Hi Wray, I have been using the progesterone cream at 100mg again for 3 months which has been my doctors prescription. I changed pharmacy's as it was a little cheaper and now since starting their compounded formula, I have been developing a rash around the stomach and waist area. I sometimes rub it in on the stomach as well as the arm and thigh areas. Could this be from the new pharmacy? I only use them because my medical pays a portion of it so makes it less expensive. How much Natpro would I have to buy for 100mg for 30 days? The rash itches so I am using caladryl lotion on it. They tell me the prescription formula is natural micronized progesterone.
Feb 04, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Wray

Hi Kay I do apologise, but I seem to have missed your Nov post, I have no idea how. You said you had cramping on 150mg. Had you increased to that from a low level? As increasing progesterone does cause Oestrogen Dominance. It is best to rub it on your stomach, or any area where you have pain, it is an excellent analgesic. Are you finding the 100mg you are now using helping, as this is the barest minimum I would recommend? As you've changed pharmacy, and therefore the formula of the cream has changed, it's undoubtedly one of the other ingredients they are using which is causing the rash. Did they give you the ingredients, or is the container un-labeled? Please try and find this out. 1 tube of Natpro contains 2000mg progesterone, so at 100mg/day it would last you 20 days. It seems you are using the progesterone only on your arms and thighs, sometimes on your stomach. It can be used anywhere, I put it on my face, neck and breasts every morning and night, rubbing the rest on some other place. It's very good for the face, see here. Sebaceous glands and hair follicles absorb it well too, see here Take care Wray
Feb 15, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
Thanks again for your help. I had my vaginal ultrasound again today and it had actually been 3.5 months since I went back to the 100 mg per day of the natural progesterone. ( I did switch pharmacy's for a few weeks and didn't have good luck with their formula so switched back about a week ago.)
Anyway, the results were not good as the lining had increased from 7.5 to 8.5 and I had a new fibroid.
She has increased me to 200 mg per day for another 3 months but at that time wants to do a D&C if no improvement. She decided to wait on the biopsy for another 3 months since I had one last year and the lining/polyps had gone away for a while after starting the progesterone cream. My question is do you advise more than 200mg now? She seems to think there are side effects if I use too much. Also, why do different pharmacy's use different ingredients to compound the formula?
I would think any added chemicals would be defeating the purpose!
Thanks Again, Wray
Feb 16, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Wray

Hi Kay With a lining that thick 200mg/day is good. I don't know why they use different ingredients, I suppose they all have the pet basic formula for making up transdermal creams. And just add the active to that. I won't use anything on my skin now unless I know the ingredients. Often mineral oils are used as the base, as they are cheap, plus synthetic preservatives. I have found if the cream is too thick the progesterone will not be absorbed well. So maybe the last one was a bit thicker? More than 200mg/day will not cause adverse side effects, they use over 1200mg/day via IV transfusion for Traumatic Brain Injury victims. It depends on the problem, the amount required. I would stick with the 200mg/day and see how you get on, I don't believe a D&C will be necessary if you keep using that amount. Have the cramps gone that you were having? Take care Wray
Feb 17, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Anonymous

Thanks once again! No, I am still having light on and off cramping. However, I have only been on the 200mg per day for a couple of days now, so am hoping they will stop now. I use it everyday and wonder if I should go off for 2-4 days at the end of each month?? I haven't passed any blood yet but did one time after originally being on the 100mg for a couple of months. That was when the lining had gone back to 1.5 or 2 and the polyps were gone after using it for about 6 months.
Feb 18, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Wray

Hi Kay The cramps should stop now you're on the 200mg/day, please rub some cream on your tummy if they trouble you. I see no point in taking a break, particularly as you have no cycles to follow. I've used it daily for 15 years now, even in the last two years of Peri-menopause when I had regular cycles. Each time I took a break my symptoms came back, something I could do without! Besides each time you stop it allows oestrogen to rise again. Even in Menopause we still make it till we die. Our fat cells secrete oestrone, as potent an oestrogen as oestradiol, the pre-menopause oestrogen. I would suggest after following this for a month or two you could take a break. Although much of our lining gets re-absorbed each month when pre-menopausal, the rest is expelled as blood. Your lining is now quite thick again, stopping the progesterone causes levels to drop sharply. It's this sharp drop which causes us to bleed. MMP's are enzymes that break down protein. They play a role in the breakdown of endometrial tissues at the end of the menstrual cycle, see here. Progesterone suppresses MMP's, see here. So it's only when the corpus luteum stops making progesterone at the end of the cycle, that levels plummet and the MMP's can begin breaking down the lining. Using the high amount of 200mg/day, and then stopping suddenly, could cause the lining to shed. I've noticed this invariably occurs once, rarely twice, if women in the first year or two of menopause start using progesterone. If you don't bleed, it means the lining has been re-absorbed back again. Please don't reduce the amount of progesterone as you did previously until you're stable, and then only by about 16mg per reduction. Staying on the reduced amount for a few days, before reducing further. It seems to me you need more than the 100mg you had tried, this suggests your fat cells are making excess oestrogen. Take care Wray
Feb 18, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Anonymous

Thanks for your advice, again. I really appreciate all your help. I am over weight and read you commented on the fat cells making estrogen. I would assume if I am able to lose weight, that should also help. I had lost about 12 pounds but have been having trouble with arthritis in my knees so haven't been able to exercise. I went 2 months not being able to walk much as before but am now finally able to walk short walks and trying to increase some every week. It is difficult and many times painful but I had gained back all the 12 pounds so desperately need to get moving. I am about 40 pounds over as I weigh 180 and am only 5.3 ft tall. I have tried to reduce chemical intake such as changing to all natural shampoo, soap, buying organic fruits and veggies etc.
Feb 19, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Wray

Hi Kay You didn't mention arthritis to me before, or being overweight. Both these are related to a low vitamin D level, see these studies on arthritis here, here,here, here, here, here, here and here. And these on being overweight, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Please have a test done. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Progesterone also speeds metabolism, so please continue with the higher amount for some time. Continued below.
Feb 19, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again! Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Kay It also helps with arthritis, it’s always low. RA is regarded as a TH1 immune response-driven disease, as a higher level of Th1 is found in RA patients. Th1 induces inflammatory cytokines, Th2 induces anti-inflammatory cytokines. Studies have found that induction of Th2 cytokines can reduce inflammation. Progesterone causes a shift from Th1 to Th2 immune response, increasing the anti-inflammatory cytokines IL-4 and IL-10. Vitamin D does this too. On the other hand oestrogen is an excitatory hormone and enhances the immune response, causing inflammation. Moreover, oestrogen stimulates the production of matrix metalloproteinases (MMP’s) which are enzymes that degrade protein and cause inflammation. Excess MMP’s are found in RA. Excess oestrogen is found in RA too, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. I'm so pleased you've reduced the chemical burden by changing to organic food etc. You might like to read our page on Nutrition. You might like to look through our page on Insulin Resistance too, as it seems you could have it. Both high oestrogen and low vitamin D cause it. Take care Wray
Feb 19, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Anonymous

Again, thank you so much. The picture is starting to come together for me. Years ago, I had fibroids on my ovaries that went away sometime after starting hormone therapy. I also had MVP with racing symptoms that went away after hormone therapy. Then, I had EbsteinBarr and was off work for 6 months. Recent has been the uterine problems,arthritis,and some varicose veins with occasionally a little fluid in the ankles. Dr. did a leg vein ultrasound and have the starting of vein insufficiency. Reading the links you provided has been an eye opener. I have craved sweets for years and do have a difficult time waiting between meals.
I am going to study all the links and try to change more of my habits. I did want to mention that when I take progesterone, the symptoms related to MVP go away but come back when off of progesterone! Thanks for all your help, Wray. I will keep you posted on my progress and hope to lose a lot of weight.
Mar 05, 2012
 Plyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Anonymous

Hi Wray,
It is me again! Well, the 200mg of prescription progesterone cream doesn't seem to be working as quickly as it did last time at 100mg!! I went back to the original pharmacy, but I am still having cramping off and on everyday. I am reading and doing research, also called one of the two pharmacies I use and found out that the progesterone in the cream they use, is actually compounded from soy. This seems like a bad thing, as soy has estrogen effects and I avoid it now. I don't really understand the process but it seems like it should be taken from a yam plant or some that don't have the estrogen properties??
Mar 06, 2012
 Polyps gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Wray

Hi Kay I'm so sorry I missed your previous post, it seems to often happen and I have no idea why. When increasing progesterone symptoms of Oestrogen Dominance also occurs. It's a question of persevering through it, particularly if the 100mg/day didn't help sufficiently. There is so much confusion about where the progesterone should come from. We used to use one synthesised from soy, but it didn't matter how much I tried to explain it didn't matter, I couldn't convince people. So we changed to a yam based progesterone. The bottom line is it doesn’t matter what plant is used for synthesising progesterone, providing it contains a plant sterol in sufficient quantities to make it economical. All plants have sterols, often called phytosterols.  Animals only have one sterol, more commonly known as a zoosterol called cholesterol, and fungi only have one known as ergosterol. They are an integral part of cell membranes and precursors to many things, for instance in animals to hormones.  But there are plant sterols and plant sterols. The phytosterols used for making progesterone do not have a triple bond in the A-ring. In fact they have no bond in the A-ring, unlike progesterone which has one.  So the molecule must be changed, this has to be done in a lab. For instance the conversion of stigmasterol to progesterone takes place over 11 reactions, each producing a different molecule. Until the final step produces progesterone. Now the other type of sterol which is not used at all in the synthesis of hormones is known as a phytoestrogen. This has a triple bond in the A-ring, identical to oestrogen. The three most active phytoestrogens are coumestans (coumestrol, trifoliol), lignans (enterodiol and enterolactone) and isoflavones (daidzein, genistein, biochanin A and glycitein).  Cholesterol is the starting point for the steroid hormones made naturally in animals, including humans. Plants such as the soy bean, Dioscorea species of yams, fenugreek, sisal, calabar bean, some lilies, yucca, some solanum species, maize and many more contain phytosterols. Some of which are stigmasterol, diosgenin, beta-sitosterol, campesterol, hecogenin, sarsasapogenin, solasodine. As these plant sterols have a similar molecular structure to cholesterol, they are used as starting points for the synthesis of progesterone. So the synthesis ends with a progesterone molecule, or molecules, as it’s made in large quantities. It is only progesterone and can only be progesterone. Take care Wray
Mar 06, 2012
 Polys gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Anonymous

I appreciate your explanation even though I don't understand everything, I get the over all meaning of your explanation and feel a little easier about them using the soy plant. I did receive a call back just yesterday from the other pharmacy and theirs is from the yam plant. He thought I should possibly be more careful about not using the same receptor sites and rub the cream in some new places.

He thinks my doctor might want me to try the pills or capsules if this doesn't work but I much prefer the cream and have read it works much much better.

I will keep this up and hope that it works. I really can't understand why my doctor hesitates in giving me a higher dose, possibly she just wants to work up to the higher dose if needed. Hopefully the 200 mg will work and I am doing 100mg am and 100mg pm.

Thanks Again
Mar 06, 2012
 Polys gone, lining normal and now back again!
by: Wray

Hi Kay I thought I'd give a full explanation, but it does seem complicated. The pills or caps don't work as well, in fact they are the least effective Delivery system. I tell people to open them, add the contents to some cream or oil and rub that on the skin. That way they get the full benefit. It's always best to start off high, and reduce when symptoms have gone. Starting too low causes Oestrogen Dominance, which can be bad in some women. You had a taste of it when you increased the amount to 200mg/day. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

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