New doctor prescribes estrogen patch, progesterone pills for already estrogen dominant?

I have been using the Natpro for over three months with a relief finally of ALL my estrogen dominance symptoms. However, I have many other issues that MUST be addressed such as pernicious anemia, Hashimoto's, Adrenal fatigue, etc. I have had an integrative doctor recommended by several friends who are recovering by leaps and bounds from their poor health. As this is the only type physician who ever helped me recover in the past I went for my first visit. The doctor did a 45 minute interview, knew exactly what she was talking about (comparing to previous physician who fixed my problems) and only recommended blood tests that I need and supplements that would help. However, she did prescribe Progesterone capsules @ 200 mg per day and Vivelle dot (estrogen) @.0375 change 2 x week. Since the capsules are usually only 10% effective that equates to 20 mg a day and I had been using 80-100 mg of Natpro per day. Against my better judgment I applied the Vivelle and took the Progesterone to see what would happen. I want to be able to report back to her with true results so I stopped the Natpro - for now (only 2 days). I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard of this process of Vivelle and Progesterone pills? In her defense I was also low on estrogen at the time of my test in September. My progesterone ratio was only 29 when it should have been 100-500! After this test I began the Natpro and I'm sure these numbers are much better now. New doctor didn't re-test hormones before prescribing hormones. After 19 years of frustration with doctors I have begun telling doctors "NO". Just not sure if I should tell this one, who seems to know what she's doing with all my friends and know her stuff, that I refuse treatment. Any input about this would be very much appreciated!

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Feb 04, 2013
New doctor prescribes estrogen patch, progesterone pills for already estrogen dominant?
by: Wray

Hi there I've found on the whole doctors prefer oral meds, with a known dose. They're very suspicious about topical drugs, even though there have been numerous studies to prove they work. Ironically the oestrogen patch is topical! You might like to look through our page on HRT. I'm of course delighted the Natpro helped you. But do understand wanting to try the doctors suggestion. I just hope you don't go backwards. Adding oestrogen with oral progesterone is much like adding oestrogen without the progesterone. You are right about the amount that gets absorbed. In fact this one study suggests it's only 4% that gets through....""The liver and gut region removed a mean of 96 per cent of the progesterone entering these tissues" see here. The amount of oestrogen or progesterone is not too critical, it's the ratio which is. I find that range of 100-500 daft, it's far too large. We've found from Saliva Tests it's best if the P:E2 ratio is over 600:1. Possibly 500:1, or even 400:1 would be fine for some. But I know the 600:1 works. The naturopath who runs the tests for us, and uses Natpro herself, has a ratio of 800:1. Getting to your other symptoms of 'pernicious anemia, Hashimoto's, Adrenal fatigue'. The anaemia as you know is caused by a lack of B12, so you're probably having B12 injections? The reason given for the deficiency is a lack of intrinsic factor. What I find so interesting in reading about it on the PubMed site are the possibly reasons.....
Common causes of pernicious anemia include:
Weakened stomach lining (atrophic gastritis)
An autoimmune condition in which the body's immune system attacks intrinsic factor protein or the cells that make it.
You are more likely to get this disease if you are:
Scandinavian or Northern European
Continued below

Feb 04, 2013
New doctor prescribes estrogen patch, progesterone pills for already estrogen dominant? Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there It then lists diseases which raise the risk, all autoimmune, two of which are Addison's disease and chronic thyroiditis. All this speaks volumes about a lack of vitamin D, and northern Europe doesn't get enough sun to make sufficient vitamin D. You have stressed adrenals and Hashi's, in which low levels of vitamin D are found, see here, here, here and here. Please have a test done. Vitamin D is also vital for a healthy stomach lining, see here, here and here. Progesterone too, see here and here. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth and Birmingham Hospital. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml (175-250nmol/L) and not the 30ng/ml (75nmol/L) most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although recent research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Please let me know how you get on with your experiment! Take care Wray

Feb 06, 2013
Vevelle,Natpro, D3, B12
by: Anonymous

Wray, Thanks for your helpful comments. I am currently taking vitamin D. When I told my old doctor I was taking 10,000 a day he said that was pretty high and could cause kidney stones. I take 20 supplements a day to give my body what the new doctor says it needs. The new doctor reduced my D dose to 4,000. I had blood drawn yesterday to test my hormones (I had been doing saliva testing) and check my D levels along with a few other things. I would say the biggest change I've noticed in taking the pill form of progesterone instead of the cream is fatigue that is unbelievable. I can barely do a simple task without losing my breath. I have to sit down for several minutes after doing something as simple as hanging clothes on the line. I talked things over with my husband, who knows me better than the doctor and can see how terrible I feel, and he agreed I should go back to the Natpro. I'm conflicted about whether I will continue on the Vivelle or quit. I know from my own test results that my estrogen wasn't that low and after using only 20 mg of cream my estrogen also came up on my last test. Doesn't that indicate the Natpro can keep things balanced?

As for the pernicious anemia, I have done extensive research. My great grandfather, grandfather and father all had it. My dad and I were both diagnosed in our 30's. I do take injections. Used to be 1ML a month but the new doc says that's just keeping me 'on the charts' so she upped it to one shot a week. I know that will help me. I am also having food allergy testing done and will follow a strict diet to avoid allergens for six months. This is supposed to help my gut heal.

The adrenals are another issue. I've had different doctors try and fix that problem. One succeeded but I don't know how because he's since died. The new doc did a Cortisol Stim Test on me yesterday so I'll see what that's all about when I see her again. I guess it's supposed to help her be able to 'fix' the problem. We'll see. However, I did find it interesting that Addison's disease responds well to Prednisone. When I was deathly ill with bronchitis last month I took Prednisone and felt fantastic! I was completely pain free and mentally sharp on day one. If I had been able to breathe I think I could have run a marathon! Of course staying on Prednisone is NOT an option for me even though I know some people do. I would rather repair the issue and so would my new doctor.

I appreciate all your input. Please let me know if my memory is correct that the Natpro can get my estrogen up as well as balanced with my progesterone. That is what I thought I had read on this site in more than one place. Finding and maintaining optimum health is a real puzzle but at the end of the day if you don't have good health you don't have anything. And despite my best efforts I have felt bad for way too long.

Feb 09, 2013
Vevelle,Natpro, D3, B12
by: Wray

Hi there 10,000iu is not very high, in fact one prominent researcher suggests this as the optimal dose, see here. It appears kidney stones are produced by a lack of vitamin K, one of the co-factors for vitamin D. It's the vitamin K which ensures calcium is not deposited in kidneys and other soft tissues, in particular the blood vessels. But into the bones where it should be, see here. And of course magnesium is needed too, another co-factor, see here and here. These on vitamin D here, here and here. Maybe you could have another test to check your level. They should be done every 6 months anyway. When you get a chance please look through the HRT page I gave you, it might convince you not to continue with the oestrogen patch. Particularly as you had oestrogen dominance symptoms prior to using progesterone. I don't believe any of us need more oestrogen. There are over 100 oestrogen mimics in the environment now, see Our Stolen Future. Besides which oestrogen is a mitogen, causing cells to proliferate. It's also an excitatory, inflammatory hormone. Oestrogen stimulates glutamate, our most excitatory neurotransmitter, see here. It increases free radicals, plus destroying beta-endorphin neurons in the brain, these produce endorphins which promote a feeling of well being and relaxation. Beta-endorphins also appear to boost the immune system, protecting against cancer, see here. Continued below

Feb 09, 2013
Vevelle,Natpro, D3, B12 Part 2
by: Wray

Hi there This paper says "Although it is widely accepted that exposure to estradiol throughout life contributes to reproductive aging.... Recent evidence ..... of chronic estradiol-mediated accelerated reproductive senescence now suggests such a hypothesis. It has been shown that chronic estradiol exposure results in the destruction of greater than 60% of all beta-endorphin neurons in the arcuate nucleus .....This loss of opioid neurons is prevented by treatment with antioxidants indicating that it results from estradiol-induced formation of free radicals", see here. Whereas progesterone protects against glutamate toxicity, it also increases BDNF (brain-derived neuroptrophic factor) in itself protective, see here and here. It also protects against calcium induced excitotoxicity, see here. Please have that vitamin D test done, it will help heal your gut lining, so too will glutamine. It could be your father and grandfather and great grandfather had a deficiency. Vitamin D is vital for the lungs too, see here, here, here, here, here, here/a> and here. I agree about the Prednisone, for emergency use it's wonderful, but not long term. Hopefully the progesterone will help the adrenals, as it lessens the stress response. Plus supplies needed progesterone to the body, as the adrenals rob all sources to make cortisol. Being stressed they can't produce enough of their own progesterone to cope. Continued below

Feb 09, 2013
Vevelle,Natpro, D3, B12 Part 3
by: Wray

Hi there If too little progesterone is used, i.e. oral progesterone or low amounts of a cream, it will stimulate oestrogen and cause it to rise. If enough is used oestrogen levels will drop, but not as great as the rise in progesterone. The ultimate aim is to make the ratio of progesterone 600:1 and over. It's slightly more complicated than that, as the precursor to all the oestrogens are the androgens. So progesterone suppresses these first, with less of them, there will be less oestrogen. This chart by Genova Diagnostics shows the pathway. Progesterone suppresses them by increasing levels of SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin), see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone and severe PMS. If bound to SHBG testosterone becomes inactive. SHBG also binds the oestrogens.

Feb 09, 2013
Vivelle
by: Anonymous

Tore off the patch and am only using the Natpro now. Question about doasage. I was using 100 mg a day for three months with no break. Last month I decided to try stopping at day 14 for cycle. Period started day 45 (day I removed the estrogen patch). I was going to wait to start cream until day 14 again but figured my body could use the progesterone support since I just put it through a week's dose of estrogen. Using 33 mg day. Should this be enough? Estrogen dominance symptoms gone after couple days off the patch.

Feb 12, 2013
Vivelle
by: Wray

Hi there I'm delighted the oestrogen dominance has gone, I thought it might. I don't believe 33mg is enough, but see how you get on with it. If you feel symptoms coming back, please increase to at least the 100mg/day you were using. Please let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Sep 26, 2014
sometimes you need a little estrogen
by: Anonymous

While I believe in the benefits of Progesterone cream wholeheartedly, and I have been using it in varying doses over last 4 years, it wasn't until I added Biest 1.25 twice a day that my energy returned and my skin and hair got shiny again. I do have to use MORE progesterone now that I use estrogen but without it I am practically useless with chronic fatigue. Estrogen gives me energy and lifted my long standing depression. It's all about balance too. My blood sugars were high till I added estrogen.

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