I can't seem to reduce the amount of my progesterone cream

by Karenina
(UK)

Hi Wray, I have made a comment twice on my page and it is not showing when I get an email to say there is a new comment on my page. I am not sure what to do but it is something I would like to talk to you about. I won't repeat my comment until I hear from you perhaps?

Thanks so much for your time. Take care of yourself. Hugs to you.

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Dec 09, 2010
I can't seem to reduce the amount of my progesterone cream
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Strange you should send this comment now, as I was thinking of you recently! The last comment you made I answered on the 15th of Nov! I've no idea why you're not getting notification, but best you save this link, it takes you straight to 'your' page.... here. Judging by the subject line, you are trying to reduce the amount of progesterone you're using. But why, you have only been using the high amount for 6 weeks! It needs time to settle down, about 3-6 months, so please don't start reducing now. Hugs to you too! Take care Wray


Dec 09, 2010
So pleased to be in contact with you again!
by: Karenina UK

Hello Wray,

I am so pleased to hear from you! I thought I had lost contact with you. Bless you for thinking of me. Just as I received your most recent message today my other messages are now showing on my own page! I am so sorry about this but could you please read my other message which I will duplicate on to this page just in case it happens again.

Sorry if I am confused but on the 11th Nov you said I was to stay on this amount, being 200mg, for a month and then start reducing it slowly? I may not have read it correctly perhaps? Since receiving your message today I am so relieved I don't have to start reducing the amount of progesterone cream I am using at the moment. Will I be able to order any progesterone cream over the Christmas period?

Sorry I made a mistake, see below; I meant I can't reduce the amount of progesterone cream I am using at the moment. Many thanks.

Dec 07, 2010
Can't seem to reduce my progesterone cream!
by: Karenina UK


Hi Wray,

Sorry you may get another one of this message but I think it has disappeared! :o) Not to worry.

I have tried decreasing the amount of the progesterone cream I am using daily but everytime I do so I find I need to up it again. I have managed to lower it by the smallest amount possible yet if I take less I start to feel low, tired and slightly irritated. Will it do me any harm if I do stay on 200mg a day? Is it important that I do reduce it more?

I have had to reduce my Vitamin D to 2000iu a day, anymore and I start to feel ill. I can't take any of the other supplements you recommended apart from Vitamin C, Flaxseed Oil and a limited amount of Vitamin D. I am allergic to a lot of supplements and medication. What I am going to do is try and take the supplements you have suggested as part of a range of supplements in one and Cod Liver Oil from Xtend Life and see what happens.

Sorry to ask you so many questions. You are the only person I feel I can trust because you have experinced it yourself.

Take care of yourself. I hope you have a lovely Christmas and lots of hugs to you!

Karenina

Dec 17, 2010
So pleased to be in contact with you again!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm glad we're in contact again too! But I'm going to do what you did, paste my reply to the above comment. You will find it on 'your' page too.....

I'm answering both your comments in one. There's no harm in using 200mg/day progesterone, I have many using far higher amounts, as their symptoms are so severe. And please don't forget you haven't been using that amount for very long, you must give it time. Don't even try to reduce yet, only when you feel stable enough, give it at least 3-4 months. Please try to get another brand of vitamin D, maybe it has excipients you are reacting to. 2000iu's is not sufficient for Scotland, you just don't get enough sun, and now you are in winter even less. And by ill what happens, do you get pain? If so you lack magnesium, don't take calcium if this is occurring. And please don't take cod liver oil, I've gone over this before with you. It contains far too much vitamin A, which occupies the same receptor sites as vitamin D, so the vit D gets shunted aside. Please don't take it! Please try increasing your vitamin D very slowly, maybe a week at a time, no faster, and see if that helps. I don't mind how many questions you ask me, at least there's been a major improvement in how you feel, compared to when you first wrote!

And yes you will be able to get the cream over Christmas, except Christmas Day and the other public holidays. And a lovely Christmas to you too, plus lots of hugs! Take care Wray

Jan 31, 2011
Very dry skin and still getting very painful breasts
by: Karenina UK

Hi Wray,

How are you? I am still on 200mg of natural progesterone cream though I noticed I had a tube of runny cream two weeks ago and it didn't seem so effective. Maybe it is my imagination. I put cream on my breasts every day but nothing has changed unless I was to reduce my cream it helps a little. My facial skin is so dry! I am using natural almond, olive oils and natural creams for my face but it is not working well so far. My nails have ridges and I wonder if my body does not absorb well perhaps? I am not on any vitamins or minerals though. I am taking Cell Pro 7 which is an extract of Green Tea. U may know about this one? I have only just started taking it in the last two weeks. It comes from Switzerland.

Apart from that I am okay in myself. No bad moods and I have more energy. I still suffer from some water retention around the tummy area. Do you feel I need to start reducing my cream a little now. I have been on 200mg of p. cream for 3 months now. Is there anything more I can take to help myself?

Take care and lots of hugs to you!

Karenina

Feb 19, 2011
Very dry skin and still getting very painful breasts
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Good to hear from you again, and I'm so happy you have no bad moods and more energy. I'm so sorry about the runny cream, we did have a batch which had some tubes like that. The lab thinks the emulsifier wasn't mixed in sufficiently, so some tubes were runny, some weren't. Please fill in the form on this page here, and we'll send a replacement to you. You say you are not on any vitamins, so does that mean you've stopped the vitamin D? This really concerns me, you live in Scotland, which has some of the lowest rates of vitamin D in the world, as it has so little sun. But it also has one of the highest rates for all the diseases which afflict us now. I'm sure I must have given you these papers before, but please read them again, see here, here, here, here, here and here. Please have that test I asked you to have. I did ask you to take omega 3 fish oil, are you? This should help your skin. Another excellent oil is flax oil, but in oil form not in caps which are too costly, use it on your veggies. MCT oil is also good, it's an extract of coconut oil, which is also good. Sore breasts can be caused by lack of iodine, see here, here, here and here. An easy way to find out if your level is low, get a tincture of iodine. Put 3 drops anywhere on your inner arm, rubbing them in with the dropper. If the patch fades in a few hours it means you are short. Continue applying it until the patch takes days to fade. Alternatively have a blood test. Hugs to you too! Take care Wray

Feb 21, 2011
Thanks for your kind advice
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Please don't worry I do take Vitamin D3 and Vitamin C. I actually live in Southampton but I do spend a lot of time indoors doing my art work. I have had no cold or flu this year since taking the Vitamin D3 which is great for me. Thanks Wray. I am just concerned as to whether I have a lack of vitamins and minerals in general even though I eat my home cooked food and salads. Would it be a good idea to take a course of Vitamins and Minerals as well?

I will try the Omega 3 fish oil but is it not dangerous with all the mercury found in the sea water?

What are your thoughts on Cell Pro 7?

I am slowly starting to reduce the amount of n. progesterone cream now.

Many thanks for all you do for me. Take care of yourself. Lots of hugs to you!


Mar 07, 2011
Thanks for your kind advice
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I thought you lived in Scotland, as I'm sure you said this in one comment you made! But I'm pleased you are taking the vitamin D, obviously sufficient too, as it does stop colds and flu. I'm happy you eat your own home cooked meals, if you're worried you're not getting enough vitamins and minerals then by all means take a supplement. Best if you can eat organic food of course, as that will give you what you need. Conventionally grown food has low mineral/vitamin content. Check the O3 container for the mercury content, most will give you an indication of it's level, if any is present, which I doubt. Green tea does contain anti-oxidants, but the best is the one you're taking......vitamin D! If at any time you feel a tickle in your throat, increase the amount. I'm pleased you are now finally able to reduce the progesterone, and doing it slowly too, most important. You'll soon notice if you've gone too low, as symptoms will come back. So just increase to the amount you were using. It should always be used as and when you need it, and not as a 'dose' like medications. Hugs to you too! Take care Wray

Jun 18, 2011
I am doing very well now thanks to you Wray
by: Karenina

Hi Wray!

How are you? It has been three months since I last spoke to you. I am doing very well on the Natpro cream. I am now taking approximately 100mg split into two dosages a day. The dosage varies according to how I am feeling on the day but it works beautifully thanks to you Wray! I am also taking X-tendlife Total Balance Unisex and Total Balance Omega 3 Ultra every day. In the winter I take a high dosage of Vitamin D as well. You saved my relationship with my partner too! We are very much closer again now I am more stable mentally and physically. I have been busy with my art work and it has been exhibited at the 'Art Pastel Society in London. Also I am having an open house in August for the public to view my art work. I am hoping to sell my greeting cards produced with my photography as well. Yes I am very busy but I am just so happy to be able to work again without all the added problems I have been experiencing in the past. You will always have a special place in my heart and I thank you every day for all your wonderful help and patience.

To all those who are having a hard time there is light at the end of the tunnel. Yes, it is scary when starting on the journey but believe me I was very scared too but I had to let go and place all my faith in Wray who is such a lovely woman with so much experience, so helpful and so patient without whom I would not be where I am today.

Thank you once again for your everything you did for me. I will keep in touch from time to time. Take care of yourself. Big hugs to you from my heart. xx

Jun 28, 2011
I am doing very well now thanks to you Wray
by: Wray

Bless you Karenina! You've brought tears to my eyes. It's so rewarding to know someone is better, I know you had a tough ride. But thanks for trusting me! I'm so delighted your relationship is now healed too, plus you're back doing the art you love. I wish you every success in your exhibition and others to come! I'm also so pleased you're using the progesterone when you feel you need it, that's how it should be used. I would love feedback when you have the time, it helps me, others too. Big hugs to you too! Take care Wray

Oct 13, 2011
Still got one or two problems
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Thanks for remembering me.. I like to think I can do something to support you in return for all your wonderful help not just for me but for other guys too. How are you in yourself? I hope you are keeping well.

I have still got one or two problems remaining! My breasts are still very painful and swollen ( 4 years now) and I am getting bloating and or water retention around my tummy area, dry skin and my hair is still not that brilliant yet. Otherwise my moods are great! I have been using 2 x 40mg to 50mg = 80mg to 100mg approximately every day in the last year since reducing from 200mg. Occasionally I use a little more when needed. I am a bit confused as to way I am still getting the other symptoms. :o)

I have had a blood test done in case this may help you with your advice. I will give you both the blood tests results from 06.2010 and the most recent one done this week, 10.2011:

2010 Plasma FSH level - 11.2 iu/L
2011 " " " - 4.7 iu/L

2010 Plasma LH level - 7.6 iu/L
2011 " " " - 3.4 iu/L

2010 Plasma Oestradiol level - 611 pmol/L
2011 " " " - 1247 pmol/L

2010 Serum Progesterone - 14.8 nmol/L
2011 " " - 18.7 nmol/L

2011 Thyroid function tes
Plasma free T4 level - 10.3 pmol/L
Plasma TSH level - 1.60 mu/L

Did not have a test done for Thyroid in 2010

The level for Oestradiol level seems to have gone up from 611 to 1247 pmol/L?!

I am still taking 5000 iu of Vitamin D a day and Omega 3,6 and 9 in the last two years.
I have been taking B-Complex plus, Manganese, Selenium, Magnesium, Zinc in the last month before I took this blood test. Is there anything I need to do to add or decrease or stop taking?

Sorry to be a pain! I would really appreciate your input on this one. I have tried to suit this problem out myself but no luck so far. Thanks so much and take good care of yourself. Loving hugs to you!

Oct 24, 2011
Not sure if you have received my message
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Just wondering if you have received my message. There is no pressure for I appreciate you have a lot of comments/messages to respond to.

Thanks and take care of yourself.Karenina

Oct 27, 2011
I don't think my comment is being received by Wray
by: Karenina

Hi,

I am not sure what is going on but I don't feel my comment is being picked up at all. Could you look into it please.

The comment:

Still got one or two problems
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Thanks for remembering me.. I like to think I can do something to support you in return for all your wonderful help not just for me but for other guys too. How are you in yourself? I hope you are keeping well.

I have still got one or two problems remaining! My breasts are still very painful and swollen ( 4 years now) and I am getting bloating and or water retention around my tummy area, dry skin and my hair is still not that brilliant yet. Otherwise my moods are great! I have been using 2 x 40mg to 50mg = 80mg to 100mg approximately every day in the last year since reducing from 200mg. Occasionally I use a little more when needed. I am a bit confused as to way I am still getting the other symptoms. :o)

I have had a blood test done in case this may help you with your advice. I will give you both the blood tests results from 06.2010 and the most recent one done this week, 10.2011:

2010 Plasma FSH level - 11.2 iu/L
2011 " " " - 4.7 iu/L

2010 Plasma LH level - 7.6 iu/L
2011 " " " - 3.4 iu/L

2010 Plasma Oestradiol level - 611 pmol/L
2011 " " " - 1247 pmol/L

2010 Serum Progesterone - 14.8 nmol/L
2011 " " - 18.7 nmol/L

2011 Thyroid function tes
Plasma free T4 level - 10.3 pmol/L
Plasma TSH level - 1.60 mu/L

Did not have a test done for Thyroid in 2010

The level for Oestradiol level seems to have gone up from 611 to 1247 pmol/L?!

I am still taking 5000 iu of Vitamin D a day and Omega 3,6 and 9 in the last two years.
I have been taking B-Complex plus, Manganese, Selenium, Magnesium, Zinc in the last month before I took this blood test. Is there anything I need to do to add or decrease or stop taking?

Sorry to be a pain! I would really appreciate your input on this one. I have tried to suit this problem out myself but no luck so far. Thanks so much and take good care of yourself. Loving hugs to you!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oct 24, 2011
Not sure if you have received my message
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Just wondering if you have received my message. There is no pressure for I appreciate you have a lot of comments/messages to respond to.

Thanks and take care of yourself.Karenina


Nov 03, 2011
Not sure if you have received my message
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I can't imagine why I haven't seen your comments, so sorry!!! Your oestrogen has shot up, and I have no explanation why. Unless you're eating or drinking soy products, or other foods containing phytoestrogens. Can you check your food and drink please. This has reduced your ratio of P:E2 to 15:1. As we've found from Saliva Tests it should be 600:1 to feel well, this would account for your adverse symptoms, including the sore breasts. Evidently you need to increase your progesterone again. To my mind 80mg/day is too low, it certainly seems so for you, as your progesterone is very low. This is undoubtedly because your oestrogen has shot up, and is suppressing the progesterone. I would ask you to increase it again, but do remember that Oestrogen Dominance can kick in again when you do. I'm delighted you're taking 5000iu's per day vitamin D, you might be interested to learn that the latest on this is we should be taking 10,000iu's per day, see here. Please have a test done, as it could be your vitamin D is still too low. Birmingham Hospital are now doing test kits for £20, please consider getting one. And for more info on vitamin D see the Vitamin D Links website. Jo who runs it also supplies a good quality vitamin D in powder form. Sore breasts can be caused by lack of iodine, see here, here, here and here. An easy way to find out if the level is low is to get a tincture of iodine. Put 3 drops anywhere on the inner arm, rubbing them in with the dropper. If the patch fades in a few hours it means there's a deficiency. Continue applying it until the patch takes days to fade. Alternatively have a blood test. And thanks for asking how I am, all's well I'm pleased to say! Take care Wray

Nov 06, 2011
Thanks very much for getting back to me
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, Thanks for your advice.... it meant a lot to me. I have been worried about the high level of estrogen since I had the test done. I have had a good look at all my products to see if there was any soy in the ingredients and to my surprise I found Soybean with the Softgels I take of Omega/3/6/9! Also, my other previous supplements contained Soy Lecthin as well and I had been taking both these supplements for almost two years now. About a month ago I have changed to Polyphenol Nutrients which are very pure and contain very natural ingredients too. There is no Soy in them. Apart from these two products there is nothing else I can think of. I eat organic food including meat, vegetables and milk. I cook all our meals too. I do have a small glass of beer a day in the evenings as well.

I have since stopped taking the Omega Balance and I have increased the level of Progesterone Cream by double the amount. Is there an Omega 3 I can buy that doesn't contain soy? I have also doubled the amount of Vitamin D to 10,000iu's a day as well. I will try and get it in powder form next time. I have been advised to take one course of Probiotics and when this is finished I will then take ingestive enzymes to improve intake of Vitamins and Minerals and a healthier stomach of bacteria. I use 100% natural facial creams, oils, toothpaste and water. This is why I was very puzzled as to why my estrogen is so high?

I have tried a course of Lugols Iodine 5.3 mg applied to area of my feet for two weeks and I never felt so good but sadly it aggravated my allergies and allergic asthma so much so I had to stop using it immediately which is a great shame. It was low in iodine as it took only a day or so to clear up! I don't know if there is an alternative??

How am I doing so far? I am really trying to help myself. I still can't get over the fact that my estrogen is so high even though I have been very religious with the daily use of progesterone cream twice a day. So perhaps it was too low an amount to use even though my moods are great.

Thank you so much for your precious time Wray. Take care and warm hugs Karenina




Nov 06, 2011
Forgot to mention to you
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

The Iodine actually got rid of the breast pain while using the Iodine but I can't continue with it due to allergies which is a great shame. Thanks again take care. Karenina

Nov 08, 2011
Thanks very much for getting back to me
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I can't believe how you've taken control of your health in such a big way, it's wonderful news. I'm pleased you found the possible reason for your high oestrogen levels, soy is used in so many foods and supplements. When looking for a good omega 3, just check all the labels. There are so many on the market, it's impossible to keep up with them all. I'm delighted the iodine helped you, it could be the other ingredients in the Lugol's that you reacted to, and not the iodine itself. So you could try an amino acid chelated form, which you would take. Although kelp contains iodine, I've found the level very high in some makes, so it's difficult to monitor dose. Far safer to take one with a known dose. Let me know if the higher vitamin D helps, I'm particularly interested if it helps your allergies and asthma. Hugs to you too! Take care Wray

Nov 08, 2011
Thanks Wray can a small amout of Soy actually raise the level of estrongen to such an extend.
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Sorry to be such a pain but can I ask if a small amount of Soy can increase my estrogen to such a high extent? Also, I am starting to suffer from swollen feet and part of my leg with water retention since increasing my progesterone level. Is it just a coincidence? I am finding it a bit scary and not nice to have at this time of my life? I am only 47. When I had the blood tests recently, the one for hormonal levels my own GP said that it was all normal! I have just spoken to a female GP to check if it had anything to do with the high estrogen levels and she said that this was possible. She then suggested I had another blood test in a month's time. When I explained that I have doubled the amount of Progesterone level in the hope of bringing the Estrogen level down she couldn't understand at all. Of course most GPs are not aware of this Natprol Progesterone cream are they, especially in the UK? Will I be all right with the swelling (water retention) in my feet and part up my legs together with the high increase in my estrogen levels I am experiencing at the moment? Is there anything I can do to reduce the swelling in my feet/part of my legs?

Lots of hugs to you Wray. Karenina


Nov 11, 2011
Amount of Progesterone Cream and Iodine
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, sorry it is me again. I suddenly realised you might be thinking I am placing the blame of the swelling of my feet on the Progesterone Cream! It may just be a coincidence and that it may be a very different reason for this. I just don't like to see this happening to me! I know I worry a lot.

I have another real concern which is one of the reasons why I kept the amount of progesterone cream to the level of 80mg to 100mg per day and that is I am fearful that if the body gets used to a certain level it will want more and when I up it again it will want more again. Can this happen? I do apply the cream to the lips and other areas of the vagina as I have heard that this area will take only the amount it needs to up the Progesterone level. Is this correct?

As we speak I am coming to the end of the second week since I have more than doubled the amount of progesterone cream and already I am starting to feel a little better though it always makes me more tired initially for several weeks.

I have just come across some interesting information on the subject of Iodine which is great for allergies and allergic asthma. You may remember I said earlier on that I found I was allergic to it well apparently if your mineral levels are low one would react to use of Iodine! When I tried the Iodine at the time I wasn't taking anything for minerals. Since then I have been taking minerals supplements for two to three months now and I gave the Iodine another try yesterday and I had no reaction to it! Instead, my allergies are not so severe this morning. I am starting to realise it is like taking a series of steps before one can take the next step in order for it to work properly. There is so much to learn and yet it fascinates me. I don't trust what GPs and all the medicines have so many side-effects too. Our hospitals are in a very bad state at the moment. The nurses don't have time to see to their patients and many of them in particular the elderly are left to die of thirst and starvation here in the UK. Sorry I am getting carried away here.

I would really appreciate your response to my concerns. Thank you so much for your time and patience. Take care of yourself and lots of hugs to you! Karenina

Nov 11, 2011
Thanks Wray can a small amout of Soy actually raise the level of estrongen to such an extend
by: Wray

Hi Karenina You're not a pain! I couldn't think of anything else to explain it. But it appears the amount of progesterone you were using was not sufficient to suppress the oestrogen you're making. You have now increased the amount, and have oestrogen dominance symptoms, so there's your explanation. Increasing the progesterone has stimulated the oestrogen, oestrogen causes water retention, hence your symptoms. Progesterone is an excellent diuretic, so good it's now used via IV transfusion for brain trauma victims. It reduces the oedema and inflammation they get, which reduces the damage to the brain, see here, here and here. In fact I've just received an email from a user of Natpro, who's son was involved in a car crash. He was going downhill rapidly and the hospital couldn't do more to help him. She googled TBI and found progesterone was being used, so she rubbed the cream on him for three days, but within hours the oedema had gone. He was discharged a month later and is now even going to the gym. It's amazing stuff! Can you tell me how much progesterone you were using, and how much you are using now. I suggest you rub some on the swollen parts, that should help to get the swelling down. I'm not sure if you've ever looked at our Peri-menopause page. But it is the most difficult phase in our lives, I found it impossible, until I found progesterone. Hugs to you too, take care Wray

Nov 14, 2011
Amount of Progesterone Cream and Iodine
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, sorry it is me again. I suddenly realised you might be thinking I am placing the blame of the swelling of my feet on the Progesterone Cream! It may just be a coincidence and that it may be a very different reason for this. I just don't like to see this happening to me! I know I worry a lot.

I have another real concern which is one of the reasons why I kept the amount of progesterone cream to the level of 80mg to 100mg per day and that is I am fearful that if the body gets used to a certain level it will want more and when I up it again it will want more again. Can this happen? I do apply the cream to the lips and other areas of the vagina as I have heard that this area will take only the amount it needs to up the Progesterone level. Is this correct?

As we speak I am coming to the end of the second week since I have more than doubled the amount of progesterone cream and already I am starting to feel a little better though it always makes me more tired initially for several weeks.

I have just come across some interesting information on the subject of Iodine which is great for allergies and allergic asthma. You may remember I said earlier on that I found I was allergic to it well apparently if your mineral levels are low one would react to use of Iodine! When I tried the Iodine at the time I wasn't taking anything for minerals. Since then I have been taking minerals supplements for two to three months now and I gave the Iodine another try yesterday and I had no reaction to it! Instead, my allergies are not so severe this morning. I am starting to realise it is like taking a series of steps before one can take the next step in order for it to work properly. There is so much to learn and yet it fascinates me. I don't trust what GPs and all the medicines have so many side-effects too. Our hospitals are in a very bad state at the moment. The nurses don't have time to see to their patients and many of them in particular the elderly are left to die of thirst and starvation here in the UK. Sorry I am getting carried away here.

I would really appreciate your response to my concerns. Thank you so much for your time and patience. Take care of yourself and lots of hugs to you!

Nov 16, 2011
Amount of Progesterone Cream and Iodine
by: Wray

Hi Karenina You do worry! But I'm sure it was the progesterone causing the swelling, in as much as it stimulates oestrogen. You already say you're feeling a bit better, but don't mention the swelling. Has that reduced a bit? And no, although the vagina is an excellent place to put the progesterone, it will absorb as much as you give it. I've been using progesterone for 15 years now, and apart from the early months, I've used about 170mg/day, or 3 tubes a month. I certainly don't find I keep needing more and more. Unless stressed of course. I'm so pleased you're not reacting to the iodine now. You are so right, it is a series of steps, and we can't isolate one part of the body, and ignore the remainder. It works as a whole. In fact this paper here starts by saying "It is said that when students enter medical school, they care about the whole person, and by the time they graduate, all they care about is the hole in the person." So true! Take care and hugs to you too. Wray







Nov 22, 2011
Thanks for your reassurance
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Thank you so much for putting my mind at rest especially as you yourself have not found the need to add more and more progesterone cream over the last 15 years now. Well I still get the swelling with my feet/legs, worse with the left one. However, I have started drinking a lot more filtered water now, 2- 3 litres a day which I am hoping will help to reduce the swelling. I have also read an interesting article about dehydration; apparently Dr Batmanghelidj said that an asthma attack (which is what I get often) is actually a dehydration signal!

I am getting better slowly. Some mornings I am starting to wake up earlier now. I normally sleep 10 to 11 hours and not feel as if I have had some good sleep. My skin is not so dry and the pain with my breasts are improving slowly as well.

I have also read another interesting article about pH balance. We have very low levels of Alkaline in our body due to the toxic levels found in our water taps today. Poor Alkaline levels leave us with the bad effects of excess acid load in body tissues and this is Dr Theodore Baroody believes is the prime cause of degerative disease. So I have ordered pHresh greens which will hopefully improve my PH balance hence my other problems with allergies, allergic asthma, hayfever etc.

Yes I know I worry but I think it is down to the fact that there were a lot of early deaths in my family to one thing or another. This is why I am so religious about looking after my health now thanks to you. You have been a great inspiration to me. Thanks Wray.

I will keep you in the picture and let you know how things are going for me especially when I get another hormone test done in a couple of weeks time. Take good care of yourself and big hugs to you! Karenina

Dec 09, 2011
I am scared
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I am scared.....I had another hormone blood test.

The results:

The Estrogen level has gone up from 1247 to 1680pmol/L in six weeks!

The FSH level has gone down from 4.7 to 2.00 iu/L

The Progesterone level has gone done from 18.7 to 14.0

The LH level has gone down from 3.4 to 1.4 iul/L

I am so frightened because I have used 200mg to 250mg a day of Natpro Progesterone cream for almost 6 weeks. My breast pain has increased again and the swelling in my legs, ankles and feet have got worse again. When I got the results I went to see a GP straight away and she didn't think anything of the high levels or what it is that I am trying to do to balance the estrogen with the progesterone. My own GP said the results were normal! After a while she asked if I had a hysterectomy and did I have the Ovaries removed to which I answered that I still have my Ovaries. Only then did she decide to have a scan done of my Ovaries in case there is cancer of the Ovaries. Should I be worried? What do you think I should do now? My GP told me to stope taking the Progesterone cream....what are your thoughts. I am now very worried that it is cancer of the Ovaries.

It would make me so happy if you could respond soon. Take care and lots of hugs to you. Karenina

Dec 10, 2011
I am scared
by: Wray

Hi Karenina If by some remarkable chance you do have ovarian cancer, the progesterone won't be responsible. So I see no point in stopping it, particularly as it counters the mitogenic action of oestrogen. Do you have any of these symptoms here. A pituitary adenoma can cause hyperstimulation of the ovaries, with an increase in oestrogen. But the stimulatory hormone FSH also increases, yours has in fact dropped. Oestrogen stimulates the production of prolactin, was your level checked? The breasts are particularly sensitive to prolactin, it's also an inflammatory hormone. If it is high, the amino acid tyrosine will bring it down, take about 2000mg/day, but increase slowly, starting at about 500mg/day. Have you had a vitamin D test done recently? I know you are taking 10,000iu's per day so your level should be good. But please have it checked soon, Birmingham Hospital send out test kits, but ignore their adequate level, far too low. I'm sorry, I've only just seen your last comment, can't imagine how I missed it! Asthma is one sign your vitamin D is too low, it does help, see here, here, here and here. I'm pleased you're drinking more water, but don't overdo it. I'm not convinced by the pH theory, the blood and tissues are kept at a pH of 7.4. The body converts CO2 instantly to bicarbonate if it becomes too acid. It can vary either side by 0.5, but if it goes beyond and acidosis or alkalosis (this is just as dangerous) develops, it's more often than not fatal. Hugs to you, and don't get so worried, this causes inflammation! Take care Wray

Dec 11, 2011
Thanks for your thoughts
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Thank you so much for your response and for your thoughts as to what may be stimulating my oestrogen. No I have not had my level checked for prolactin. You may be right and it may account for my breast pain which has been ongoing for 4 years now. I don't know if my GP would be willing to arrange for it to be done. They are very selective in what they can offer me due to financial restrains now. Can I have it done privately? Would it be expensive?

Recently, I have increased the amount of Vitamin D to 15,000iu and yes I will have a vitamin D test done. It is very interesting to know that Asthma is a sign that Vitamin D is too low. I have a cough 24 hours and it gets worse with the cold weather. I did some research and it does say that taking Amino Acid supplements, Antioxidants and detoxifying herbs etc helps with the asthma and I noticed your PCO formula contains most of the ingredients it suggests taking for it and I wonder if it is worth a try perhaps? I can't afford to buy all those ingredients individually on internet it becomes so much more expensive. Will the PCO formula be available soon? What are your thoughts on this one?

I have taken on board about the amount of water I drink and I will stop taking the PH Greens as I had no idea that it can be dangerous if it goes beyond 0.5.

I will continue with the Progesterone and I am hoping they will get the scan arranged before Xmas so I don't have to think about it. I know I worry but cancer does run in my family and my mother whom I looked after for three years had a terrible ending to her life which left me with very painful memories. It is very reassuring to be able to talk to you especially as you have so much medical knowledge. I can't thank you enough for your wonderful help and support. I will keep you in the picture. Take lots of care and loving hugs to you Wray.




Dec 11, 2011
Thanks for your thoughts
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm sure you can get your prolactin done privately, but haven't a clue as to the cost. I would start by asking your GP, maybe she might think it a good idea. I'm pleased you've increased you vitamin D level, they've found no signs of toxicity with 40,000iu's taken daily, see here. Your cough is indicative of low vitamin D levels too, please have that test, see here, here, here, here/a> and here. The PCO formula should be renamed! I have advised it for any inflammation as it's very high in antioxidants. The whole reason we kept it in powder form was cost, as you say caps are very expensive. The taste isn't too bad, mostly very sour. I take another we make up for boosting energy and put it into fruit juice which masks the sourness. I've just checked on the PCO formula and we have none in stock, but we do have an anti-inflammatory complex which is similar. In fact I was thinking of renaming the PCO complex to this name, and not making this one. The link is here if you feel like trying it. Please don't stop taking the greens, they're such valuable foods. I must have confused you, but the body keeps the pH balanced, it's very rare for acidosis or alkalosis to occur. Green foods won't upset this mechanism, and they are so full of essential nutrients. In all likelihood your mother was low in vitamin D, I'm sure mine was as she had a severe stroke which left her bedridden for 6 years. One day I hope none of our mothers, or us too, will end our lives like this. You always say such kind things, I do try to help, to encourage, but in the end it's only ourselves who can make the decision about our health. Take care and many hugs, Wray


Dec 16, 2011
I have followed your suggestions
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,
You will be pleased to know I have seen another GP who was very good to me. Though she had never heard of the Progesterone cream she did not put me off it. When she saw my results she arranged for me to have an ultrasound of the ovaries, the abdomen and the pelvis. She said I do have a history of polyps, endometrosis and cancer. Personally I don't think it is cancer. I have already received the appointment for the 10th January 2012. I mentioned about the prolactin and whether this may be why I am having painful swollen breasts. At the same time I asked if she would be kind enough to do another hormone test sometime in the new year so I can keep an eye on the estrogen levels. Straight away she printed out three hormonal blood tests with the prolactin included and said I can take each one as and when I feel I need another test. I was really taken aback for this would not have happened with my own GP. Thank you so much for mentioning Prolactin. I promise I will have a Vitamin D test done sometime next year.

You made me smile when you said the PCO formula should be renamed. I have ordered the anti-inflammatory complex today. It would be interesting if this will help with my allergies and allergic asthma cough. No, I won't stop taking the pH Greens formula. I must admit I don't feel so tired since taking it.

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me that both our mothers would have been alive and well if they had taken Vitamin D. I am so sorry to read about your mother too.

Yes, I appreciate it is only ourselves who can make the decision about our health but without all your advice I would have had no-one to turn to or be where I am today. You are a very special person and without you so many women, men and myself included would be really suffering now. Take good care of yourself and loving hugs to you. I hope you have a very lovely Christmas and I wish you lots of happiness and good health in the coming New Year. Karenina

Dec 18, 2011
I have followed your suggestions
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm so delighted you've found another GP who's willing to listen to you. I would have been taken aback too! And don't leave it too long before you have the vitamin D test done, can't you have it at the same time as the other tests? Yes we really do need to re-name it! And let me know how you get on, it's not a quick fix as you can appreciate. No nutrient works as fast as we'd like. Most of the time it's correcting imbalances we know nothing about, and often it's the symptom we are conscious of which is the last to go! I'm pleased the greens are helping you, an alternative is to make your own by juicing veggie leaves. Although the extractor outlay in the first instance costs more, in the long run it works out cheaper. Bless you for saying that, I try to help as best I can, if only to make people change their minds about taking drugs, and how remarkable the body is at healing, given the nutrients it requires. Or changing their doctors! Take care and much happiness over Christmas and the New Year. Wray

Dec 19, 2011
Sorry I made a mistake!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I meant 'cancer' in our family history but I have had no cancer myself thankfully. I will have a colonoscopy every five years for colon cancer which I had to fight for a couple of years ago. Yes I have a history of a polyp removal and endomentriosis.

I have called Birmingham hospital today and I have ordered a Vitamin D test. I will let you know the results.

Take care of yourself. Big hugs to you. Karenina


Dec 21, 2011
Sorry I made a mistake!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I did realise you meant you had not had cancer, as you've never mentioned this in your previous posts. You're on the right track re the colon cancer, as vitamin D has been shown to be protective, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. The last paper is very interesting, as it was an observational study done by the Garland brothers in 1980, who found people living in northern latitudes are more prone to getting it, ie lack of sun. It was from this that the other studies arose. I'm pleased you've ordered the test, don't forget to ignore their 'adequate' level, all based on the NHS 'inadequate' level! Hugs to you and take care, Wray

Jan 10, 2012
Outcome of Vitamin D results and Ultra/Regular trans-vaginal Scan
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I hope you had a lovely Christmas wishing you a Happy New year!

I have just received my Vitamin D blood test result and I think I may have to stop taking the Vitamin D for a while perhaps.

The results:

Total Vitamin D : 266.3 nmol/L
Status: Adequate
25-hdroxyvitamin D3 : 263.5 nmol/L
25-hydroxyvitamin D2 : 2.8 nmol/L

What are your thoughts on this one? If you feel I need to stop taking them for a while how long do suggest I stop for?

I have had the Ultra Sound Scan and the Regular trans-vaginal ultrasound scan done this morning. The lady who did the scan said I have a cyst on each side of my Ovaries to the size of 3cm. I still have this sore pain to the left side of my abdomen. Also, bare in mind I have had a Hysterectomy about 4 years ago, leaving the Ovaries behind. She was surprised to see I have still got a small part of the cervix in my vagina and I don't know whether my GP should have continued with the Smear Test? I have yet to see my GP about the results. Do you feel I should have another t.v. ultrasound scan in a few weeks time just to check they have not increased in size? Again I would be so very grateful for your thoughts on this one as well please.

I will go for a blood test for my hormonal levels and proactin say in another one month's time or sooner?

Thanking you for your precious time. Big hugs to you Wray. Take care. Karenina

Jan 11, 2012
Reduced my Vit D to 5000 iu
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Just letting you know I have reduced my Vitamin D3 to 5000 iu yesterday and today. I feel in a daze and very tired. My headaches have returned and the breast pain which still remains has got worse again. I did this due to the worry of toxication in my body as a result of the blood tests. At 15,000 iu I feel great. I hope you receive this together with the comment I sent to you yesterday. Big hugs to you. Karenina

Jan 14, 2012
Outcome of Vitamin D results and Ultra/Regular trans-vaginal Scan
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Well it is lovely and high!! I suggest you drop down to 5000iu's per day from now on, don't stop it as levels drop very quickly if there's nothing to replace it. I think another scan would be a good idea, but give it about 3 months. Nothing will have changed if done sooner, but ask your GP what he thinks about it, and whether he should do the smear test. I must confess I never have them done! Maybe you could do the blood tests at the same time as you have the scan, but again ask your GP, he might have other views! Hugs to you, take care Wray

Jan 15, 2012
Thanks for your advice....breast pain remains a huge problem
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,
I thought you might comment on the results of the Vitamin D! It is strange but it was actually making me feel really good, there was a slight reduction with the breast pain and my allergies improved but this was on a daily intake of 15000 iu. Also, it worked well with the Progesterone cream too. Since reducing the Vitamin D to 5000 iu a day I have been feeling foggy, tired, listless and the breasts have swelled and become as painful if not worse than it was before. This does worry me and I wonder if I should take the blood test for prolactin which has been included with my hormonal blood test this coming week to see if it is the prolactin?
I do feel very down. Fortunately, your Energy Boost Formula arrived three days ago and I started taking it yesterday. After taking half a teaspoon of it (to begin with) I felt some energy and I was able to breath through my nose again. This morning I was able to bring up phlegm for the first time in years! I am coughing far less as well now. I do wake up feeling in a daze so I know I need to take the formula as soon as possible. It is an excellent formula!
I have been using 1 teaspoon of progesterone cream (half a teaspoon in the morning and half a teaspoon in the evenings) since 13th of October which is three months now. I think it is going to take at least another three or four months before my hormones even out again??
I have to say it will be so nice to be free of breast pain after 5 years now! It is getting to me especially as it hurts to hug my loved ones and my close friends! I did try the Iodine drops twice, without problems and after two or three days it made my asthma worse again. I will celebrate when my breasts are no longer painful!
Thank you for putting up with me! Your thoughts on my comments mean so much to me. Big hugs to you and take care Karenina


Jan 17, 2012
It is quite a large teaspoon
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Just want to add that the teaspoon I use is quite large one and a tube of progesterone cream lasts me 4 days. So I am using 250mg, is this correct?

Big hugs to you! Karenina

Jan 17, 2012
Thanks for your advice....breast pain remains a huge problem
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I think you reduced the vitamin D too quickly, my error and I apologise. It would be best to go back to the 15,000iu's per day until you feel better again. Then reduce slowly. I don't know what form you take it in, but a dear friend in London has it as a powder, which makes this much easier. If you want to contact her, her website is here. With such a high vitamin D I doubt your prolactin will be high. I'm delighted the EB has helped you so quickly! It contains N-acetyl cysteine, this is the reason the phlegm came up, and the coughing less. It's given to people with lung problems like cystic fibrosis, cancer, TB, pneumonia etc. So thanks for telling me this and the kind words! You have had such an up and down time with all this. If you feel like talking to someone please contact Jules on the web site I gave above. I know she would be happy to chat. Did you take the iodine, or rub it on your skin? Rubbing it will take it straight into the tissues and circulation, avoiding the gut, it might help. It will also give an indication if you have enough. As I told you the patch fades quickly if you have to little. Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2012
Bless you!
by: Karenina

Thanks Wray for your wonderful input. I have tried the Lugols Iodine Solution on my foot and Nascent Iodine as drops in water and I have reacted to both of them with an asthmatic asthma attack and severe coughing. I have the same problem with Fulvic Restore minerals and amino acids, also in liquid form. I have noticed I seem to react to supplements using drops in drinking water and the powder form suits me best.

The more I increase the use of progesterone cream the worse the pain and swelling gets with my breasts. The only thing that helped a little is the high level of Vitamin D and the iodine which I can't take. I am hoping the Arginine in the E B formula will help with my breast problem as you have suggested for prolactin but you feel I may not have prolactin now since I have done well with the Vitamin D? Is there anything else I can use instead?

As you may have read one tube of Progesterone cream now lasts me 4 days. Sorry to be a pain but how much cream am I using per day with one tube lasting four days? Thank you Wray for giving me contact details for a lady I can talk to. Once again thanks for your Energy B Formula...it is amazing stuff! It is keeping me going. At the moment I am doing research on all the ingredients as they have lots of other benefits too!

Thanks for listening to me. Take care and big hugs to you. Karenina






Jan 18, 2012
It is quite a large teaspoon
by: Wray

Hi Karenina A standard teaspoon is 5ml. So if it's a 'large' one it's not a teaspoon! If a tube only lasts you 4 days it means you are using 500mg/day. There are 2000mg progesterone in one tube. Hugs to you too! Take care Wray

Jan 18, 2012
Bless you!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina How interesting about trying the iodine on your skin and it causes the same reaction. Have you tried the chelated form? Remember, increasing progesterone will cause oestrogen dominance, maybe you should reduce very slowly to get back to where you were. By no more than 16mg/day, which is 1/2ml of cream. And it's the tyrosine that reduces prolactin, but with the amount of progesterone you're using your prolactin will be fine. I had no idea you had increased so high. Plus of course your vitamin D level will keep it down. 1 tube contains 2000mg progesterone, so 4 days means you are using 500mg/day. Thanks for the kind words about the Energy Boost, I hope this also helps to get things right for you. And yes you are so right, they all have very many benefits. I have a list of papers to go up on the website, about what each does, but there's not been enough time to put them on yet! Take care and hugs Wray

Jan 18, 2012
You made me laugh
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I could not stop laughing when I read your comment! :o) The spoon I use is a professional spoon for the kitchen and though it says one teaspoon it is quite large! I am generous in overlaying it with the progesterone cream as well! By using two teaspoons a day I finish using one tube in 4 days! I hope 500mg is not too much. Since I have never really used enough in the past I am not afraid to use more now especially as I have high estrogen levels at the moment.

Thanks for making me smile. Take care and lots of hugs. Karenina

Jan 18, 2012
Sorry I am confused!
by: Karenina

Hi again,

I am so sorry I am confused as to why you think I should reduce very slowly to get back to where I were with the progesterone cream? I was on 250mg/300mg and in the last three weeks I increased it to 500mg in the hope it would reduce the breast pain. I may have had some estrogen dominance but I am coping with the increase thanks to the E. B. Formula. Can you tell me why you feel I need to reduce it to where I was, presuming you mean 200mg a day? I didn't realise it was too high. Just thought it may help with my breast pain. I am desperate. Today my GP asked me to do another hormone test which I have had done this morning. Will let you have the results once it comes through.

So sorry to be a pain. I am really trying to help myself. No I haven't tried the chelated form of Iodine...if i order some how much do you think I need to use, how often etc.

I feel for you! I don't know where you find the time to answer all our comments. You are amazing. If I could help you I would be happy to.

Take care and big hugs to you Karenina

Jan 20, 2012
Sorry I am confused!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I think I'm getting confused too! I've just read through your other page here when you first wrote to me, and you found the 200mg/day sufficient. Now you are up to 500mg/day. I see you also said you've had breast pain for 4 years, whereas the progesterone was helping this at one point. You are using sufficient progesterone to stop it, so there must be another reason for it. You say the iodine helped, but causes your asthma to get worse. Have you had your iodine levels checked? It's so difficult for me to give advice on what your next step should be, as I don't know what other factors are occurring. Such as the food you eat, drink, your stress levels etc. Your vitamin D level is good and you say that seems to have helped. Although dropping the amount so quickly didn't! This has just happened to someone else who wrote to me. She was taking a huge amount by mistake, once I worked out her dose it was 600,000iu's per day for a month! She did feel wonderful on this amount, but stopped it immediately. She is now suffering aches and pains all over her body. I suggested she try magnesium, as this can cause pain if too low. It seems to be helping her, maybe you could try it, or are you already taking it? I'm a bit lost with all you have tried and stopped! Please contact Jules in London and have a chat to her. I think that might help both of us. Talking something over is so much better than our back and forward links here. Take care Wray

Jan 20, 2012
Some very good news! Please don't worry about commenting on this one:0)
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I am sorry I am getting you confused too! I am going to make a record from all our comments and then I will be able to tell tell you what has or had not worked for me and why. Then we/I will have a clearer picture. Don't worry I am aware you have now exhausted all possibilities and ideas so please don't worry about commenting to this comment. I do understand and normally I am not usually so open with what is going on for me. You are the only person I can depend on for your knowledge. Also, I don't know if you are aware that I am profoundly deaf and I cannot hear on the phone so I would not be able to have a conversation with Jules unless it is by email which is what I am doing with you via comments. This is why it means a lot to me. It is very rare to be able to get this kind of help in the form of written comments on any website.

This morning I have just received my hormone and Prolactin results and it is looking very good. I really believe the Vitamin D worked well together with the high amount of 500mg in the last month. However, I know I will need to reduce it slowly to a lower level of 250mg/300mg for a while and then perhaps try reducing it to 170mg/200mg which I won't do for a few months. I am starting to understand the way it works with the progesterone cream having seen my results today. I don't think it is yet in the correct ration yet but I am not sure how to work this out?

My prolactin level seems high though. Will give you the results now:

Prolactin level 173 mu/L

Oestradiol level 611 pmol/L from 1680 pmol/L in 6 weeks! (I am really pleased about this..)

LH level 2.3iu/L
FSH level 3.0 iu/L

Serum progesterone 36.1 nmol/L

With regards to the problem I have with Iodine I have found a very good company in Norway who makes Iodine powder from three types of seaweeds containing Iodine which I have ordered today, hopefully I may not react to it. In spite of the lower levels of Oestragen and good levels of Vitamin D including regular intake of Magnesium which I have taken for several months now my breast pain still remains. It is a big mystery to me. I will find something for the pain. I am not going to give up just yet. Ok Wray, I have given you an update and I will leave my comments for another few months. You have done all you could for me. Thanking you for all your wonderful help. Take care and hugs to you. Karenina



Jan 21, 2012
Some very good news! Please don't worry about commenting on this one:0)
by: Wray

Hi Karenina You haven't got rid of me quite yet! And no, I didn't know you were deaf as you have never mentioned it. And now of course I understand why you could only email Jules, but she does stock vitamin D and progesterone if you should need it. Which means you would get it soon after ordering it. Plus she's a very empathetic person and answers emails promptly. I'm so pleased you are getting the hang of using all the nutrients and progesterone, it's often not an easy journey. I'm delighted your oestradiol has come down, as that was far too high. Evidently the 500mg/day progesterone has done the trick. I am puzzled by your prolactin result. If this is the case it's very high, normal range in non-pregnant females is 2 - 29 ng/mL (which is the same as the mcg/L they had given you) or 86.96 - 1260.86 pmol/L, which is the normal UK measurement, see Medline Prolactin. Medline gives the measurement in ng/ml. What did your doctor say when she saw the result? Oestrogen increases mitotic and secretory activity of several cells in the pituitary, but particularly the proliferation of prolactin cells. If progesterone is high enough it suppresses prolactin, this is why pregnant women don't produce milk. It's only after birth when progesterone levels drop, that prolactin rises. It's often regarded as the hormone of lactogenesis, ie causes milk to be produced, but does have inflammatory properties too, I did mention this to you. I didn't give you the papers as at that point it was speculation on my part, but see here, here, here, here, here,
here, here here and here. A lack of protein, in particular the amino acid tyrosine, slows down the production of dopamine. Tyrosine is the precursor to dopamine, see here.
Continued below.

Jan 21, 2012
Some very good news! Please don't worry about commenting on this one:0) Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Dopamine also drops with stress, principally because tyrosine is also the precursor to the two stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. Normal dopamine levels suppress prolactin, if dopamine drops due to a lack of tyrosine or stress, prolactin rises. Your oestrogen level has been very high, this could account for the high prolactin. Plus you seem to have responded to the EB, which contains tyrosine, the precursor to dopamine. High dopamine lowers prolactin levels. It could be you need more tyrosine, there is 500mg/dose in the EB. But I would ask you to confirm with your doctor the level you have given me above, and that it was done in mcg/L. If it really is this high she must look into it, as you could have a prolactinoma. This is a benign tumour in the pituitary which causes excessive output of prolactin. Other causes of hyperprolactinaemia are hypothyroidism, kidney and liver problems. Plus of course high oestrogen causes it too, but what's causing the high oestrogen? Normally the drug bromocriptine is given to reduce prolactin levels, but if you are happy to continue with the natural route, the tyrosine should help. Plus of course the progesterone. Before I bombard you with more info, please ask your doctor about the prolactin results. Take care Wray

Feb 02, 2012
Energy Boost Formula
by: Karenina

To whom it may concern

I am running out of Energy Boost Formula! It seems you have been out of stock for some time now. Please tell me when you will have some in stock again. Is there another website where I can buy this formula please?

Many thanks.

Karenina

Feb 02, 2012
Energy Boost Formula
by: Wray

Hi Karenina! I'm so sorry about the lack of stock, it is being made up now and will soon be on it's way. But I might be able to get you a packet in the meantime. The EB formula is not available on another website. Please could you send your postal address via our form here. Please look at the reply I gave you above about your prolactin levels, it seems you have missed it. I need you to ask your doctor to look into it. Hugs Wray

Feb 03, 2012
Thanks Wray!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Thanks for responding....I have had a few problems; though I had the results of the hormone blood test I was still waiting for conformation from my GP to say she had received the results of the scan as well which incidentally got lost in the post! Apparently, the scan results were sent by fax on the day I had the scan done. So I returned to the hospital a few days ago to ask them if they would send the results to my GP again. I will be ringing the surgery today and if they have received it I will then make an appt for next week Tuesday. She is only available once a week. I will write to you as soon as I have seen my GP. Thanks for your care and concern. So far my breasts are still very painful and I still feel very tired otherwise I am doing okay. A tube of progesterone cream now lasts 7 days instead of 4 days.
Take care and hugs to you. Karenina

Feb 03, 2012
Thanks Wray!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina So pleased you had seen my reply, I was getting concerned you hadn't. Do let me know what your doctor says about it. I'm very surprised she didn't comment on the prolactin. And I see you've managed to reduce the cream a bit, that's good. But don't reduce too quickly. Thanks for the address, that came through so quickly! I have organised a packet for you, and it should be on it's way. Allowing for the weekend, you should get it next week. Take care and hugs Wray

Feb 07, 2012
I am very worried since seeing my GP
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Thank you so much for sending me some more Energy Boost Formula.

I have been to see my GP this morning and she told me they found a cyst (8cm x 7cm) big and they think it is a teratoma. I have been referred straight away to my Gynaecologist and I should get an appointment very soon. She said it is likely they will operate and remove it for some tests to check if it is cancerous. I am starting to worry now as it is in the same place where I have had the pain for well over a year.

I asked about the Prolactin result and she said it is normal. I did notice however that whilst taking the E. B. formula the pain in my breasts is not so severe.

Well I continue to use 275mg daily now. Thanking you for all your caring support. Take care. Hugs to you Karenina.



I mentioned about the fact that they noticed I still have a small part of the cervix left behind and my GP was very surprised to hear it. She strongly suggested I speak to my Gyaecologist about it as well.

Feb 08, 2012
I am very worried since seeing my GP
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Well this is undoubtedly the cause of your high oestrogen levels. What amazes me is that they never thought to check when your results came out. 1680pmol/L is extremely high, plus they did find a cyst when you had the scan done, but left it, very puzzling. And I don't see how your doctor can say a prolactin level of 173 mu/L is normal! Did they make a mistake on this? You saw from the link I gave you what the normal level should be, yours was very much higher. Or have they changed your result! Don't worry, as they are rarely cancerous. If you've had the pain there for over a year, why was this not checked? I'm very puzzled by many things. Do hope the EB arrives soon, and please let me know how you fare. Take care and hugs. Wray

Feb 08, 2012
I think you are starting to understand why I worry
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I guess you can understand why I have to double check everything with the doctors and hospitals. I still would not have had the results on paper if I had not seen my GP again yesterday! When my other GP finally received my results thanks to my trip to the hospital again he made no contact with me until I had contacted the receptionist myself who then told me I have Ovarian cysts but didn't tell me I had one other cyst which looks like a teratoma. She went on to say that he had referred me to a doctor at a hospital where I live without checking with me first. I was most disappointed he did not refer me to the Gynaecologist in Winchester whom I had seen for a fair number of years before I had the hysterectomy. He has a record of my history! Why didn't he do this for me? In the end I managed to persuade him to refer me to my Gynaecologist.

When my hormone results first came through with a level of 1680pmol my previous GP actually wrote and said this was normal! If I had not seen another GP or ensured that things were being done none of this would have happened. I can now see how so many people are not getting what they should have had on the NHS. It is only recently that the responsibility for funding is now in the hands of the GPs and they receive a limited amount of money each year. So they can only spend so much per patient. It is going to get worse not better!

With regards to my prolactin results she pointed out that according to their labs the normal ranch is 57.5 to 561 mu/L. So 173mu/L is within the range. Whether that is correct I cannot be certain. I have lost so much trust with what they say is normal these days!

Yes when I mentioned about the pain to my GP over a year ago he said it was an Irritable Bowel and he suggested I take some Fiber! He didn't examine me or send me for a scan.

I guess you can understand why I feel so blessed that I can talk to you about my results and whether it is normal or not. I don't think you realise just how precious you are to me and many others too. I did mention to my GP that I would like a regular hormone test from now on just to keep an eye on the estrogen levels. Also, I am not going to reduce the amount of progesterone cream I use to a lower level than the one I am on now. I would rather use a little too much for as long as I need it to the end of my days! :0)

I promise I will let you know how things go for me once I have seen my Gynaecologist. Thanking you for all you do for us. Take care and hugs to you Karenina

Feb 08, 2012
I think you are starting to understand why I worry
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I simply can't believe what you have just told me. I'm stunned, stunned. It's like something from the dark ages, when they had no phones, no internet, no labs to test blood/saliva. I'm surprised you weren't offered leeches! It's also like something out of Monty Python, funny if it wasn't your health involved. So many doctors involved, so many referrals, confusions, your pain diagnosed as IBS, the solution take fibre, it never seems to end. The state the NHS is in is serious, and I'm sure it won't exist soon. Maybe your doctor is right about your prolactin, there are so many systems used it can be baffling. But the lab gave the ranges they use, so I imagine it's correct. I'm so pleased you persisted in your efforts to find a solution, but how time consuming, frustrating too. And it could have been resolved a year ago or more. Once the cyst is removed your oestrogen level will come down, but don't lower the progesterone until it has. Thank you once again for the sweetest things you say. Hugs and blessings for the op, and let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Feb 15, 2012
Thank you so much!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I have just received the Energy Boost formula today! You have been so kind to send me more than double the amount too. My last packet of Energy Boost contained only a third of it. I need to ask you how I can send you the money for it please.

I had a response from my GP this week to say my Gynaecologist doesn't want to waste an appointment until I have had another scan done again in 6 to 8 weeks time as from the current date not from the 9th Jan. Seeing that my estrogen levels are down to normal I have nothing to worry about! What he fails to see is that if I had not used the Progesterone cream my oestrogen levels would be even higher by now! The levels were climbing up each month. What is wrong with them? I have written a long letter to my Gp expressing my unhappiness with the way my situation has been handled. I didn't go over the top but I need to get it out of my system.:0)

Take care and thanks again for the EB. Hugs to you..Karenina

Feb 15, 2012
Thank you so much!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm so pleased the EB arrived safely. But I'm dismayed you say it's double the amount, as the formula hasn't changed! Every packet should contain enough for 30 days, and each one weighs 414g. I'll have to take it up with the lab that makes it. And I don't want payment, bless you. I can't believe what your gynae said, surely the scan you had done was sufficient to do something now. Does he think it's just going to disappear?! Your doctor seemed to think something should be done, this is all beyond me. The NHS is definitely on it's way out. Let me know of any further developments, either with you or them! Take care and hugs, Wray

Feb 16, 2012
Thank you so much!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, You are so very kind for not charging me...thank you so much. I have had another look at my last packet and the weight was 268g...that might explain why I was running out of it so soon. I thought I had taken too much of it! :0)Not to worry, at least you are aware of it now. Thanks again for the formula...will order some more soon just so I have another packet as a back up. I will keep in touch. Take care and hugs to you Karenina

Feb 16, 2012
So sorry
by: Karenina

Hi again,

It is me that is getting confused! I just noticed they are two different Formulas! When I ordered the Energy Boost there was none in stock so I ordered the Anti-inflammatory Formula which was 268g in weight, which I believe was the correct amount. My mistake. Please accept my sincere apologies Wray. Take care. Karenina

Feb 16, 2012
So sorry
by: Wray


Hi Karenina Well I'm relieved! Take care Wray

Mar 01, 2012
You will not believe this!
by: Karenina UK

Hi Wray, you may remember when I said I was writing a letter to my Gp expressing my disappointment re the treatment I received recently...well I received an email from my Gyneacologist offering me an appointment which was for Monday this week. Thinking things were starting to look up for me I was in for a rude awakening....as soon as I sat in my chair he looked at me and said he does not believe in this rubbish with the Progesterone Cream, that is a waste of time...there was a survey taken which proved it wasn't helping women...that is all in the mind that women are feeling better when using the cream...He went on to say John Lee has done amazingly well for himself financially! I looked him in the eye and said,'you would not believe how many women including myself have been helped by this wonderful cream...thank God we have something that works for us!' I was so tempted to give him a smack in the face...not that I would do that of course! I realised it was all about money! It is not licensed here in the UK...also there would be no need for the majority of these operations to take place either. I wish I had known about this cream before I had the Hysterectomy...

After he had his say he suggested that I do not have anymore hormonal blood tests done and that they are a waste of time! He said he didn't think I needed another scan to check if my cyst has gone away and that we should leave it alone. As in most cases it is not a terratoma...thankfully I had already managed to convince my GP to arrange for another one which is due on 10th March. I mentioned about this local pain in the tummy area and he never examined it once, instead he told me that it is just a trapped nerve due to the hysterectomy operation 5 years ago and that he will refer me to the pain clinic for a steriod injection!
By which time I had enough of him and walked out of the room, letting him know I was not pleased with him.

So far I have managed with 275mg, though some days I find I need to use 350mg depending how I am feeling. Thank you so much for listening to me. I will let you know how I get on with the scan next week. Take care and big hugs to you. Karenina.


Mar 02, 2012
You will not believe this!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Unfortunately I can believe it! And a 'survey was taken', where does he get his info from, Women's Own?! And how he could say that about Dr Lee I don't know. I doubt he got much from the talks he did, I went to a few and they were all so reasonable in price. And the cream his family now make was not being produced in his lifetime. It was only developed after he died. His books probably earned him something, but that's fine, we all need to make a living. Gynaes make very good livings! It's very difficult not to hit someone like that. Could he explain your very high oestrogen level, was he at all concerned about this? There's just so much progesterone can do, I only hope it reduces it a bit. But it seems very persistent, in spite of the high amount of progesterone you're using! I'm relieved your GP is doing another scan. Ask them about the possibility of a trapped nerve, maybe they can pick something up. Or rule it out. And do let me know. Take care and hugs to you too. Wray

Mar 12, 2012
Scan results
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I have just had my second scan over the weekend and the lady told me the 'possible teratoma'(the words used in the last scan result)still remains the same. No-one has yet confirmed to me if it is indeed a teratoma.... the cyst on the left has gone but the cyst on the right has increased in size. I have arranged an appointment to see this other female GP this coming Thursday. I don't know whether I should be worried or not....what will happen next....etc. I am worried as the pain in the colon has not been examined or scanned either. I feel very lost here ....I still feel so tired most times and I am still having to use just over 300mg daily...I wonder if I need to increase the amount again? What would you do if you were in my shoes? I will respect the fact that you may not want to give your personal opinion but at least I can say what I am feeling right here as I write it...I have never had this kind of worry before. Sorry to go on....Take care and hugs to you. Karenina

Mar 14, 2012
Scan results
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm so pleased you insisted on another scan, in spite of, or maybe because of, the offhand way the obgyn treated you! As you know I have no knowledge of teratomas, if it is one, but it's evident to me it's not a normal cyst. The progesterone has obviously done it's stuff with the left hand cyst which has gone. Will a much higher amount of progesterone reduce the size of the other, I simply don't know. I'm a bit puzzled though, as you say the lady told you from the second scan that the 'possible teratoma' still remains the same. But then you say it's growing in size? Don't be worried, it's not going to help at all! It will only reduce your vitamin D and progesterone levels. Do you think the colon pain could be a referred pain, and is actually coming from the cyst? And what would I do, well I'd increase my progesterone to 1000mg/day, and keep my vitamin D level at 375nmol/L. I would take huge amounts of antioxidants, 5000mg/day N-acetyl cysteine, 5000mg/day taurine, 2000mg/day arginine, 8000mg/day glutamine, 2000mg/day glycine, all the B vitamins, selenium, zinc and chrome, and milk thistle to help the liver detox, until something resolved. I already take all those I've mentioned, not in quite such a high amount, but almost! I take the energy boost everyday, plus I add more cysteine and taurine. If all this didn't help, then I would have it removed. See what the other GP says, she might confirm it's a teratoma, or that it's an overgrown cyst. Then you can make an informed decision. Take care Wray

Mar 14, 2012
Thanks for your advice
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, thank you so much for giving all this advice....it means so much to me. Yes, there were two cysts and a possible teratoma. (will explain briefly what it is when I have seen the other GP tomorrow) So the left cyst has gone, the right cyst has grown a bit and the third one being the teratoma remains the same. Sorry I didn't make it very clear.

Yes the colon pain could well be a referred pain that is coming from the cyst....when they did the ultrasound scan they did not scan the area where the pain is coming from....will be talking to my Gp about it tomorrow.

Thanks for all your advice re increasing amount of progesterone to 1000mg a day and taking all the antioxidants you have suggested including keeping the Vitamin D level at 375nmol/L, the Vitamin Bs etc. I feel so much better knowing there is more that I can do to help myself thanks to you...I don't know what I would do without you! I will let you know how I get on tomorrow. Take care and hugs to you Karenina

Mar 15, 2012
Appointment with other GP
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I have been to see my GP....she confirmed that the cyst on the left has gone, the cyst on the right has grown by another 13mm in width and length and the teratoma remains unchanged. The scan report suggested I should have another rescan for the possible teratoma in 3 to six months time. So I asked her if it was possible to have another scan in six months time she said the Gynaecologist, the one who went on about Dr Lee, said this would not be necessary and after I shared my worries she agreed reluctantly in view of the fact that there was a history of cancer in my family. I asked her about the pain in the colon area and she mentioned that the Gynaecologist thinks it is a trapped nerve due to the Hysterectomy 5 years ago...I told her that it had not been examined or checked before he had made this decision and that it started a year ago. I went on to say that I contacted the Clinical Geneticist, the person who arranged for me to have a colonoscopy five yearly three years ago, and spoke to her about this pain she made an appointment straight away to see me in her clinic on 27th March. I just felt I needed a second opinion re the pain. Also, I asked if I could continue with the hormonal blood test once or twice a year once again she said that my Gynaecologist insisted I should not have anymore of these tests and when I explained how it would help me to keep an eye on the estrogen levels she agreed reluctantly. My only concern now is that one of the right cyst has grown by 4 mm a month so what I am going to do is follow your suggestions with the natural supplements/powder form and see if it helps.
Thank you so much for listening to me and for your wonderful help once again...

Take care and caring hugs to you. Karenina

Mar 17, 2012
Appointment with other GP
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I find all this quite hard to understand. They all seem so casual about it, and it's only when you insist on something that they concede. Let me know what the colon exam reveals, as I find that hard to understand too. Why would a nerve 'trapped' five years ago only start hurting 4 years later? I feel it's due to the cysts, inflammation does cause pain. Remember those doses I told you about were what I would do, you certainly don't have to follow them! I would ask you to consider contacting Julienne here. I did give you her details some time ago, if you needed to chat to someone about progesterone and vitamin D. But you explained you don't hear very well. This time I would like you to think about having EFT sessions with her, it's a remarkable therapy. She can email you more details about it, but it can turn around a problem, plus relieving anxiety. Take care and hugs to you. Wray

Mar 17, 2012
I care for my life...........
by: Karenina

Hi again,

That is the way it is now with GPs and doctors in the UK.....I know a lot of friends who are having similar experiences too. My partner has seen it for himself as well. I am sure you are right in that the pain may be related to the cysts.

There was no mention of a colon examination in my last message... I just have a colonoscopy every 5 years because my mother had cancer of the colon....I am not expecting one either unless she thinks I need it again.

Don't worry I know I don't have to follow what you would do if you had my current problems....I only meant that I am taking what you have said on board and will try some of your suggestions. I should have explained it more clearly to you..

I am not sure why you think I suffer from anxiety? I am quite a calm person by nature but it is quite a natural thing to worry when doctors are only doing the bearest minimum for you....If I don't ask for what I should be expecting from my GP I will not get it otherwise. My life is precious to me and I am at a stage where I have never been so happy in my life....I get on well with my partner...have lovely friends....and I have been given the time to do my art which I love doing. I couldn't wish for more...I will consider EFT sessions but as we speak I am not sure that I need it?? I don't panic or get anxiety attacks either. I feel it is only natural to worry when one isn't getting what one should be getting from one's GP...there is always an article in the newspapers every day describing the neglect and lack of care doctors give in hospitals and surgeries. They are now asking if friends or family would come into hospital and help their own relative or friend with the food, drink, toiletries etc during the day because they don't have enough nurses to see to the patient's needs!! A handful of patients don't have anyone to help them and often die of dehydration! This is the way it is now...

Anyway the problem with me is I say what I think and feel and for some it may seem as if I am overly worried...take care Wray


Mar 18, 2012
I care for my life...........
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I misunderstood you about the colon exam, when you said you'd contacted the Clinical Geneticist, and she immediately made an appointment with you. I assumed she would do another one to check the pain. By anxiety I meant the worry about what's happening, mostly caused it seems by the indifference of the doctors. I don't imagine for one moment you are an 'anxious' person, you've never said that it all your posts. Just you are worried, which is understandable! From what little I know about EFT from Julienne it can turn around physical symptoms. She told me of a little boy with such severe Thalassemia Major (inherited blood disorder), he was in ICU. His WBC count was 2200 and platelet count was 4000; both way below normal. Normal WBC count in males is between 4500 to 10,000. Normal platelet count is between 150,000 to 350,000. His father started the tapping while he lay there, and turned him around. I was hoping that maybe it could reduce the cyst, and maybe the possible teratoma. Just a thought. Take care and hugs Wray

Apr 20, 2012
No PCO formula in stock again!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, bless you for all your caring thoughts...I will put you in the picture soon. The company has run out of PCO formula again! I have been taking the Energy Boost formula but I find there is not enough of the Arginine and the Cystine N-Acetyl...so I would like to order the PCO fornula. The last time they run out of this PCO formula it was at least two months before they had some stock in again. Could you look into this for me please. Many thanks and take care Karenina

Apr 20, 2012
No PCO formula in stock again!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Thanks so much for contacting me, even if it's about a stock out! I was getting concerned about you, thought maybe something had happened or that I'd offended you in some way, I wouldn't do that knowingly. About the PCO formula, I'm pleased to say it's on it's way to the fulfilment house, and it should be available next week. We are finding more and more are using the formula, as you are, for antioxidant purposes. In fact I think I'm going to rename it! The lab we use is small and can't produce great volumes, but we are in contact with one who can produce bigger volumes, so hopefully soon we can make the shift. When you have the time please let me know how you are getting on. Take care Wray

Apr 21, 2012
PCO formula
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, thanks for letting me know how the situation is with the PCO formula....it is great that it is becoming more popular! Wray, you have done nothing to upset me...you are just an amazing person who does so much for everyone. I wonder where you get your energy from! :o)I promise I will write and let you know how things are with me hopefully sometime next week. Thanks again for all your help....take care and hugs to you. Karenina

Apr 21, 2012
PCO formula
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Yes I'm pleased too, except now we really have to get the bigger lab making it, not good for my nerves each time it runs out! Same with the progesterone, we have a stock out now, but it should be in Wednesday next week. I hope it's the last we ever have, knowing what it's like to run out, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. We do sometimes have problems with the raw materials getting held up, but more and more people are finding the site now. Gone up hugely since you started it, and we are only now getting on top of that by increasing the batch size. It's made fresh monthly. I'm very relieved you've not been upset by me, very relieved! I wait to heaer your news. Bless you and hugs too! Take care Wray

May 09, 2012
Sorry this is late....letting you know how things are for me.
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

How are you? Sorry I am rather late....keep meaning to do it and then I move on to the next supplement!:o)

I am taking Complete Probiotics every day for the pain near the button hole and it goes away for as long as I take them daily...it returns once I stop taking them.

I take Methylsulfonylmethane for my allergies and asthma daily and it works brilliantly....together with the PCO Formula though I have had to reduce it a little due to the high amount of Zinc which my body doesn't seem to like too much. The Energy Formula is in a way better for me but I did some research on one of the ingredients called Glutamine and it said that laboratory studies suggest that glutamine may actually stimulate growth of tumors. Much more research is needed before it is known whether it is safe to use glutamine if you have cancer. When I read it I got a bit concerned considering the fact that I have some cysts, one of which has been growing for some time now. I don't know what your thoughts are on this one?

I have to say that the Energy Formula is kinder to my tummy than the PCO formula...it is less acidic...but it works very well for me......feel very good, full of energy, my skin has improved a lot and my hair is rich and soft...also it is darken my hair which is great for me!

I take extra Vitamin 6 and 12 and this ended my daily asthmatic cough which would wear me out.

I take Magnesium Citrate and 15,000 of Vitamin D3 which contains Olive Oil....once every 7 to 10 days I take Lugols Iodine, one to two drops and if the drops take a while to absorb I know I need to stop using it for a while. Do you remember when I couldn't use it at one time? Your Energy Formula stopped the reaction to the Ludols Iodine!

I take Turmeric and Cayene Pepper daily for hayfever and to prevent swelling of my legs...



May 09, 2012
Continues......
by: Karenina

I know I need to take some flaxseed oil but it is all adding up in costs for me especially while I am still taking 500mg of Natpro Progesterone cream though I have just started to reduce it very very slowly this week! I have to be so careful otherwise I get one or two signs of oestrogen dominance returning. It may not be possible yet...we shall see. Of course I will not know how things are until September when I have another ultrasound scan (which I pleaded for). Ater further research I have read that taking the enzyme, Serrapetase every night will make the cysts go away in both the breasts and other areas of the body...I am going to give it a try. By the way my breasts still remain painful but with slightly better days though not very much better. The magnesium was slightly helpful but I can't afford to take a higher dosage at the moment.

I am still experimenting and researching in particular for the cysts and breast pain.....I seem to be doing okay and I am in a much better place for most of my symptons now. If you feel there is anything else you feel may be useful for the cysts and the breast pain I am open to suggestions. Thanking you so much for all your caring support...what would we do without you! Take care and lots of hugs to you. Karenina

May 11, 2012
Sorry this is late....letting you know how things are for me.
by: Wray

Hi Karenina It's good to hear from you again, but what with all the research and experimenting you've been doing, it's no wonder the time has passed! I hope you write a book about all this, it would certainly help so many on their healing path. So interesting about the probiotics helping, I was reading a doctors comments just this week and he puts his patients on them for life. Fascinated the extra B6 and 12 have helped the cough. MSM is good too, so pleased it's helped the allergies and asthma. It does contain sulphur which is probably doing the trick. Yes they do say that about glutamine, but it's also the main, if not the only fuel for the immune system, so as this is needed to fight cancer etc, I opt for taking it! These are a few papers on it here, here, here here, here and here. I find it so interesting but in all the papers I read on the immune system certain amino acids keep cropping up, arginine, glutamine and the sulphur aminos cysteine and taurine, one reason they all go into my complexes! Oxidative stress is behind all our diseases and disorders, the recent papers are all bringing this aspect in now. And what better way to fight it than using the potent antioxidant aminos. They are needed for healing too, nothing can repair injured tissue but these, as after all 'tissue' is protein. I find it all so fascinating, and learn from others experimenting too, like you! The PCO formula is very high in these aminos, the EB has slightly less, I think that's why it's kinder to your tummy. So delighted it's helping you! And I'm amazed at how you say it's helped with the iodine, remarkable. Continued below.

May 11, 2012
Sorry this is late....letting you know how things are for me Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I've been experimenting with magnesium, as I feel I need to add it to the complexes, but I've yet to find one which doesn't react with me. I had a friend try Mg chloride too, my latest attempt, it had her on the loo for days! Do tell me how much of the citrate you take and does it upset your tummy? Have you tried dissolving it in water and rubbing it in your breasts? It is absorbed. I'm so puzzled they are still sore, what with the progesterone and iodine. I've heard from others that cayenne is good for reducing BP, so presumably this is why it helps the swelling. I know nothing about Serrapeptase other than it's a proteolytic enzyme. There are not many studies on it, but there are many on the other proteases, you might find these just as good and cheaper too, as they're not brand names. Have you tried selenium, it works synergistically with iodine, see here. Please keep experimenting and letting me know your discoveries, I do like to pass it on to others. Take care and hugs to you too, Wray

May 16, 2012
Thanks for all your information part 1
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, yes the Probiotics really do help me...I tested the benefits of these when I stopped taking them for a few days on two occasions where the pain returned and when starting again the pain went away...unfortunately the probiotics are expensive, I take Dr Mercola's at the moment but I am hoping to find a cheaper alternative which works just as well for me hopefully! I know that I will be taking the probiotics for life together with the Energy Formula and the Natpro Progesterone Cream even if I have to break the bank! :o)I have given up many things including new clothes, meals out,etc....as far as I am concerned my health is the most important element of my life especially with the history in my family.

I am very impressed with the research in the papers re Glutamine! I do feel a lot happier now, thanks Wray. Yes, when I take the Energy Formula I feel really well and once when I had run out of it I did not feel brilliant at all so I know it is very good for me!

With the magnesium I did a lot of experimenting....I bought Pure Encapsulations Magnesium citrate in capsules, 150mg x 2 a day...started off with one a day and though there was a slight reaction it improved very quickly within days...then I read about the Magnesium Oil where one rubs it all over the body and leaves it to absorb for 20 to 30 mins and then shower it off. Very expensive but effective. Finally I tried the recommended method of 4 to 6 drops of it by mouth...that did not agree with me at all. I have just ordered Magnesium in the power form and I will let you know...much cheaper but will let you know of the outcome. My teeth look so healthy and my bones are benefiting from it too though Vitamin D works very well for me in lots of ways. I have not had a cold for two years now. Continued below...

May 16, 2012
Experiementing part 2
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Yes, I am surprised that my breasts are still sore...I have tried rubbing them with both the progesterone and the iodine on the breasts to no effect though it may not have been for long enough. I read on Ted's earth clinic that there are several ways to help with the problem, often there are cysts, nodules or deposits of calcium in the breasts which can cause the problem. Though I am taking Lugol's Iodine I am only taking one drop a week...apparently I would need to take 8 drops a day for a year. The other option which has helped one lady was taking an enzyme (Serrapeptase) every night before going to bed for 6 months (it claims to "eat away" at the cysts)and all her cysts went away. I thought I would give it a try. If it does not work I am going to try Ted's remedy taking chromium chloride together with magnesium which is supposed to reduce blood sugar, which in turn reduces blood calcium and excessive clotting, which in turn reduce the cysts/pain. I will continue researching on this subject. I can't wear a single bra for pain and I have wasted so much money on so many bras to date with no success! I miss it! I don't feel sexy without it!

I understand you do not have much information on the Serrapeptase so I thought I would send you a website address: http://www.biomediclabsrx.com/serrapetase I will have a look at other proteases as well. It will be a pleasure to pass on my discoveries as well as my failures. If you come up with anything feel free to share it with me too. Take care and hugs to you, Karenina

May 16, 2012
Thanks for all your information part 1
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Probiotics are not cheap unfortunately, just the L acidophilus is about £1600 per kg. But I have heard it's gone up, what to I hate to think! We do one, but no where near as complex as his, only two 'bug' varieties. We can't afford the others yet. We also add the prebiotics too. But his is a wonderful assortment of the ones needed. Bless you for always saying the EB helps you, I can't tell you how delighted I am. And I'm very relieved the glutamine papers reassured you. Thanks so much for coming back to me re the Magnesium. I have looked into the 'oil' but it's not something I could use, as I need to be able to add it to a complex. Most of the magnesiums taste so foul! I use magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) in the bath each night, as it does get absorbed via the skin, see here. But to take! Like you I've not had a cold in years now, proof they all work! Let me know how you get on with the next magnesium, and I'll look into the citrate. Take care Wray

May 19, 2012
Experiementing part 2
by: Wray

Hi Karenina If you do try Ted's remedy, remember you are already taking quite a lot of chrome as picolinate, which is meant to be the best form. The EB is designed to reduce blood glucose too. That's why there is so much inositol and glutamine in it, plus zinc which is also needed. If you have a clot, I'll give up what I'm doing! Both vitamin D, see here, here, here and here. And progesterone see here and here, prevent it. I'm really dismayed everything you've tried has not helped the pain. Maybe you should try increasing the iodine slowly. Thanks for the info on Serrapeptase, very interesting. And if I come across anything else for sore breasts, I'll let you know. Take and care and hugs, Wray

May 22, 2012
Still can't reduce the amount of progesterone cream per day....
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, just going to be brief on this one......I am trying to reduce the amount of progesterone cream I use every day but I have a problem. The slightest amount reduced and within 24 - 48 hours my estrogen symptoms return!I have been using 500mg for a few months now......does it mean my estrogen levels are still high? I would really appreciate your thoughts on this one. Thanks so much...Take care and hugs to you. Karenina

May 23, 2012
Still can't reduce the amount of progesterone cream per day....
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Well it does seem so, but so strange as you've been using such a high amount for months now I would have thought it would be reducing. At one point your oestrogen was through the roof, which was caused by the cysts. Has that been resolved yet, as I know you were being sent back and forth between doctors who weren't too interested. I know in October you gave me your results as…..
2010 Plasma Oestradiol level - 611 pmol/L
2011 " " " - 1247 pmol/L

Then in Jan this year you said…….
Oestradiol level 611 pmol/L from 1680 pmol/L in 6 weeks! (I am really pleased about this..)

This is normal for a pre-menopausal woman……110.13 - 1468.4 pmol/L but it would or should drop once in peri-menopause, and of course in menopause it drops down to 0 - 110.13 pmol/L.
Have they been checked since then, you might have told me but I can't find the reference. It would be good to have another check up, as I'm puzzled why you instantly get oestrogen dominance reducing by even a small amount. Do you think they'd do another test? Your prolactin level continues to puzzle me, as I've never seen it written as mu/L, not on all the sites I've looked at. In fact the only reference I can find to a mu is….. a traditional unit of land area in China!! See here. Take care Wray

May 23, 2012
Thanks....just a thought
by: Karenina

Thanks Wray, the last time I had a scan was the second one in March and they results were: 'possible teratoma'(the words used in the last scan result)still remains the same, the second cyst on the left has gone but the third cyst on the right has increased in size again. You may remember I begged for another scan for September this year to which my GP reluctantly agreed to but it will be the last one. The only thing I think I can do is to keep trying each month and hopefully I will be able to reduce the amount of cream eventually. I am beginning to wonder if I should increase the amount of Vitamin D because it did help a lot at one point. I will increase it from 15,000 to 20,000iu and see what happens....thanks again for letting me share my thoughts with you.....take care and hugs to you Karenina


May 23, 2012
Thanks....just a thought
by: Wray

Hi Karenina If the 'possible teratoma' is still present and the right cyst has increased, it could be that they're secreting more oestrogen than normal. Which appeared to be the case earlier when your oestrogen shot up. I can't think what else could be the cause behind not being able to reduce the progesterone. Would they do a blood test on your oestrogen levels? Increasing the vitamin D is a good idea, as it did help, but don't forget to have a blood test done. Your level went up to 266.3 nmol/L, but you did feel good. Mine is 230nmol/L, a friend found her level had got to 347nmol/L and she felt wonderful. She has reduced the amount she was taking, but it's so interesting, the same thing occurred with her as you, she's been very tired and feeling run down. In your words in Jan…."been feeling foggy, tired, listless and the breasts have swelled and become as painful if not worse than it was before." I'm beginning to wonder if in fact our level should be far higher than recommended, as all of us who have higher than normal levels feel wonderful. The same thing occurred with my sister in law too. It will take many years of studies, then add on another 20 to that before it filters down to the doctors etc. Let me know how you get on with the increase, it will be most interesting to see if it does help again. Take care and hugs Wray

Jun 22, 2012
Hormones all over the place again!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Before I say anything a lot of my/your comments have disappeared from my page...unless you had to make room for more comments? I was a bit lost trying to find our last comments?

Anyway I tried the Serraptase and they made my allergies worse so I stopped taking them after three days and then I felt I needed to take a good antioxidant which I ordered and took for one week. It was called Astaxanthin...my god my hormones went all over the place and I am in a mess again. I looked up Astaxanthin and it warns that it can upset the female hormone balance. I stopped taking it immediately. I had only just managed to lower the amount of progesterone cream to 275mg two weeks before I started taking the Astaxanthin. I have not been right since then......my stomach is severely bloated, all my joints are painful, pain in the lower back and stomach again, allergies have worsened etc. I cannot believe it! Though I have increased the use of progesterone cream a little to 300/350mg a day it isn't getting better. I guess I will have to increase to 600mg again...of course it may not have helped by the fact that i had reduced the progesterone cream either as I may well have the cysts still?? I do know for sure that hormones went all over the place by the 4th and 5th day of taking the Astaxanthin...I was tearful and angry again. I must be so sensitive to any hormonal change?

I did try the Magnesium Transdermal Oil, to be applied to skin all over the body daily...it made my allergies worse and I stopped using it after a few days. The only thing I can take is Magnesium Citrate in capsule form and it works very well for me.

I think I am going to take another hormone blood test to see what is happening...what do you think?

Take care and hugs to you Karenina


Jun 24, 2012
Hormones all over the place again!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Well you have surprised me! I have nothing but good reports about astaxanthin, none of them mention a problem arising with hormones. I'll have to see what I can find too. Well I've spent the last hour looking through PubMed and Google Scholar and can find nothing about hormones and humans, only it's affect on rainbow trout and prawns. But plenty on it's antioxidant properties. I have looked on our server and can find no missing posts. The last one was mine of the 23rd May, as it shows on this page. I also save all comments too, so I've looked in that file and again the last saved document was the 23rd May comment. It is strange to me, as there's a gap of a month, and I feel sure we've chatted after the May post, but maybe the time has flown by? I have noticed your encouraging comments to others on the site, so maybe this is what we remember. Incidentally if you're still taking the PCOS formula, or the Energy Boost formula, you are taking huge quantities of the most powerful antioxidants! I'm not saying astaxanthin is not one, but the antioxidants in these two formulas are those needed by the body to prevent cellular damage. Or in some cases the aminos are also used to make further potent antioxidants like glutathione. This is the cells main defence against free radical damage, it's made from glutamine, glycine and cysteine, all three are in both formulas. Plus you are taking large doses of vitamin D the most powerful antioxidant of them all. I'm as upset as you about the reversal, you've been doing so well. Could you possibly have had an allergic reaction to it, or to one of the ingredients? Rather than a hormonal reaction, the bloated stomach, pain and worsening of allergies seem to hint at this. But you know your body and I don't! I'm so disappointed you are having to increase the progesterone again, having only just managed to lower it. You could still have the cysts, but the reaction was far too quick to suggest this had anything to do with it. Thanks for letting me know about your magnesium preference, you have tried enough. I was interested in the Mg taurate as it doesn't have an adverse affect on the gut, but I have learnt it only has 9% elemental Mg which would account for this. Whereas MgO has 60% which is why it's such a good laxative! Another test would be interesting, if you can persuade your doctors to do one! Otherwise Genova Diagnostics do them, but I've no idea on the cost. Take care and hugs Wray

Jun 29, 2012
Got the hormonal blood tests results today
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Thanks so much for your comments.Yes I agree the Astaxanthin has wonderful reports which is why I wanted to give them a try. When I was taking the Astaxanthin I was unaware of this side-effect, hormonal changes or effects on hormones until I started to have some symptoms of estrogen dominance....I had the same experience with Vitamin C Asorbic Acid two years ago, yet I have no problems with the Energy Boost formula which as you say has huge quantities of antioxidants. I did have a look on the internet site and I have found some links which have reported hormonal changes while taking Astaxanthin..see links below:

http://blog.perriconemd.com/astaxanthin-side-effects/

http://www.integrativepractitioner.com/article_ektid14368.aspx

http://www.sideeffectslist.net/conditions/antioxidants/astaxanthin-side-effects.php

I did reduce the Energy Boost formula by half the amount daily while i took the Astaxanthin which may not have been a good thing and I forgot to mention that I had run out of Magnesium Citrate for a month during the time I took it and since I stopped taking the Astaxanthin I noticed I have not been so good without the Magnesium Citrate either...my allergies have worsened recently, and things are still not brilliant with estrogen symptoms either. Again it may be a coincidence.

I did increase the use of the Natpro Progesterone cream to 350mg a day and things are still not good...I was able to get another blood test done as I still have two requests for blood tests given to me by the female GP a few months ago. So I had the blood test done on Monday and I went to collect the results this morning. I am giving you the Jan 2012 to compare with the one I received for June 2012:

Jan 2012 June 2012

Oestradiol level: 611pmol/L 1111pmol/L

Prolactin level: 173 mu/L 79 mu/L

LH level 2.3 iu/L 13.6 iu/L

FSH level 3.0 iu/L 19.4 iu/L

Serum Progesterone 36.1 nmol/L 17.0 nmol/L

Thyroid Function Oct 2011

T4 level 10.3 pmol/L 12.0 pmol/L

TSH level 1.60 mu/L 1.50 mu/L

As you can see the Estrogen levels have increased again....can I ask what your thoughts are on the results and what you think I need to do now please. It would mean a lot to me. Thanks Wray...take care and loving hugs. Karenina


Jul 01, 2012
Got the hormonal blood tests results today
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Thanks so much for those links, they all basically said the same things about the astaxanthin. Interesting to know as I'd not heard any of it before, but then I really haven't done much research on it. It evidently didn't suit you as you responded to it too quickly for it to be anything else. Well things have changed in your test results, oestrogen has shot up, and is definitely affecting your progesterone level, as that's now suppressed. It has to be something to do with the cyst you have, which doesn't seem to have responded to the vitamin D or the progesterone. Unfortunately both hormones fall into the 'normal' range, ie progesterone varies between 15.9 - 63.6 nmol/L, and oestrogen between 110.13 - 1468.4 pmol/L. So the doctors would think nothing of them as they don't check ratios. But surely they would be puzzled by and question the sharp increase in oestrogen? It means your ratio is now 15:1, which is very low again. See Hormone Testing. Your LH and FSH have shot up too, stimulating follicles to grow and ovulate. A stimulated follicle will produce more oestrogen, testosterone too. Short of having another scan done on your ovaries, I can only suggest you go back to the protocol you were on as it was helping you. It will probably mean a great deal of patience too, as you work your way back up again. I'm so sorry this has happened to you. One thing you could try is adding more NAC (N-acetyl cysteine). It is in the EB, but only 500mg/dose, it evidently doesn't adversely affect you, so you could safely add more. It's a potent detoxifier and can help allergies. Continued below.

Jul 01, 2012
Got the hormonal blood tests results today Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Another thing you could try is calcium D-glucarate. Oestrogen is metabolised in the liver by glucuronic acid, the process is known as glucuronidation. Glucuronidation is one of the major detoxification pathways of the liver. It removes carcinogens, toxins, tumour promoters, the sex hormones ie, the androgens and oestrogens, mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids, aromatic and heterocyclic amines, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, various nitrosamines, drugs, fungi etc. It's then excreted in the bile, but an enzyme in the intestine called beta-glucuronidase reverses the glucuronidation process. It breaks the glucoronide bond between a toxin and glucuronic acid, and releases carcinogens, toxins and excess steroid hormones back into circulation. There's evidence beta-glucuronidase activity is increased in breast and prostate cancer. Calcium D-glucarate inhibits beta-glucuronidase, see here, here, here and here. Incidentally this enzyme is produced by undesirable gut bacteria, supplementing with probiotics suppresses the bacteria, and subsequently the beta-glucuronidase. Silymarin from milk thistle also inhibits beta-glucuronidase, plus it helps the liver detox, there is a high dose in the EB so there's no need to take more. I do hesitate in asking you to try this, knowing how you react to things. So will have to leave it to you to decide if it's a good idea or not. I would suggest trying the increased NAC first and see if that helps you. Take care and hugs to you, I'll be thinking of you in your journey back to health again. Wray


Jul 05, 2012
Thanks so much Wray!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner......you may remember I had an appointment to see the Genetics Professor back in March this year...well it was cancelled due to my jaw operation, well I had another appointment made for this week at short notice. I saw the Professor and she wanted me to explain everything that had been going on for me since the Hysterectomy.....at the end of it she was shocked at what she had heard especially with my GP and the Gynaelogist. She said she will be writing to them, sending me a copy as well. When I mentioned about the pain amd bloating and gas she knew straight away what the problem was.......that they were adhesions of the intestine which developed as a result of the Hysterectomy. I did some research and have read that Enzymes help heal the adhesions....I understand that calcium D-glucarate does the job of detoxifying, the removal of excess oestrogens and I wonder if this will also help with the stomach adhesions as well? Maybe I am expecting too much from it! I would like to give it a try...don't worry about the possibility of a reaction to it.....but if I don't give it a try I will never know.:o)

I know you suggested trying the increased NAC but what I have done instead is take the PCO formula again which has also a high amount of NAC....I half it into two dosages, after lunch, and again after dinner and it is better than taking it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning....also I am taking half the amount for now, to increase slowly over the coming weeks. I have now icreased the N. progesterone cream to 400mg (if necessary to up it to 500mg) and I will stop taking the Probiotics and buy the Calcium D-glurate to try. I am still taking the Vitamin D at 15,000iu, the Magnesium, and the MSM. However, if my intestine still feels sore I may have to buy an Enzyme supplement but I just want to take one new thing at a time and see what happens.

I have still got one more scan to follow in September that is if my female GP hasn't changed her mind yet! If you look back in my past comments I begged for one more scan to which she agreed to reluntantly? I will hold her to her words when I remind her soon to make another appointment for the scan. I feel so blessed to have found you.....I just want to cry because you are so good to me and others. Thanks so much for your comments once again...take care and big hugs to you...Karenina x


Jul 06, 2012
Thanks so much Wray!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm blessed you came to the site! I've learnt so much from you, I so admire your tenacity against so many odds, I do hope your GP hasn't changed her mind too! Another 'odds' to face. I'm so pleased the Prof was shocked at what you've been through, I have been too. As least you have someone on your side. Very interesting what she has to say about the problem being adhesions, I'd not given it a thought. But they don't really explain your oestrogen level shooting up. Oestrogen is only made in the ovaries, brain, adrenals and glial cells. Something is activating it, but what. Let's hope you can have the scan done, but will they do anything about it if they find your cyst has grown, or the possible teratoma is still there. I can only hope so, as you can't go on like this, doing battle yourself. Let me know if the Ca D-glucarate helps, you'll have to give it some time of course. But as you are so sensitive you will know soon enough if it's not for you. I had forgotten you were taking the PCO complex, that does have high NAC in it. I know you took the Serrapetase, but I can't find your comments on it, and I'm sure you had told me your reaction to it. You must be right when you say some of our comments have gone. There is another enzyme you could try called Wobezyme. It's meant to be very good, first developed in Germany. Please let me know how it all goes. And many hugs to you, take care Wray

Jul 07, 2012
The adhesions in my tummy
by: Karenina

Thanks so much Wray....I did forget to mention that the Prof. did say the problem with the adhesions in my tummy was separate to the issues concerning the rise in my estrogen levels and cysts....there are days when I really do look pregnant Lol! The enzyme you mentioned in your last comment sounds good to try too. I will keep in touch. Take care and big hugs to you Karenina x

Jul 08, 2012
The adhesions in my tummy
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Ah I'm glad she said they were separate issues! The adhesions would be inflamed, hence your pain. Although I'm surprised with the amount of vitamin D you're taking, and the progesterone you're using, it hasn't helped calm them down. But maybe some days it does and some it doesn't, hence the pregnant look. I do hope it resolves soon, you've battled for long enough. Let me know if the enzymes help, and you don't react to them, it would be good to know. I've never tried them. Take care and hugs to you, Wray x

Jul 22, 2012
Need your thoughts on this one please.
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I have been taking the Calcium D-Glucarate, 1000 mg for the last week and to start with I just wanted to sleep all the time.......felt drunk is the only word I could use to describe how I felt and then it started to improve only to find I am experiencing mood swings, breast pain worsened, hair starting to fall out, bloated, swelling around my ankles, flare up of allergies, joint pain etc........Estrogen dominance all over again! The only thing that has been missing from my usual supplements were the probiotics which I normally take every day...had run out of money for this month..I have ordered some more and they should arrive tomorrow. From what I have read looking through comments you have made to others probiotics are needed when taking the Calcium D-Glucarate; have I understood this correctly? I did get a lot of heart burn but this is getting less; there is less pain in the tummy area as well? Also, my vision has improved dramatically! I will hang in there and see what happens when I take the probiotics with the Calcium-D-Glucarate. I just remembered you may want to know if I have changed the amount of progesterone cream I am using.......no, I am still taking the same amount twice daily in total amount to 375mg to 400mg per day. I did not want to mess around with the amount I am using while taking the Calcium-D-Glucarate. I even wonder if these supplements make estrogen dominance worse before it gets better? There are very positive reviews for this supplement as well. If you have time I would be grateful if you could let me have your thoughts on this one please. Continue>>


Jul 22, 2012
My Gp and the scan
by: Karenina

Continue....

Hi again,

Just to bring you up to date...I saw my female GP on the 13th July and the first comment she made was the fact that my estrogen levels have gone up quite high again. (My other GP made a note on it to say it was normal!!) Anyway, I asked if I could have one more scan in September as agreed in March this year and she said, no problem at all. She felt that this would be a good idea. I felt so relieved. In fact she wants me to see her again once we have the scan results through and she mentioned the possibility of arranging an appointment with an Endrocrinologist as well.

My GP has become a lot more open-minded now. I mentioned about these new supplements I am trying and she was quite interested about it. She even mentioned that if this doesn't work try increasing the amount of progesterone cream I use to a point when the estrogen level stops rising and take this amount daily for the rest of my life! I was surprised to hear her say this. I told her I didn't want to do this until I am happy it has nothing to do with the cysts. I went on to explain how it works with the p. cream and how I can't seem to reduce at the moment whereas in the past I have been able to do so without another rise in the estrogen levels again. Eventually she understood what I meant and said she will arrange another scan for me. I am just so happy she is willing to do this for me!

Thanks again Wray for your wonderful support! Take good care of yourself and heartily hugs to you.Karenina x

Jul 24, 2012
Need your thoughts on this one please
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm so delighted that some things seem to have improved. You are so extremely sensitive to any supplements, I was concerned about you starting it! ! I've not heard this before, and can only speculate that the Ca D-glucarate stirred things up. It works by suppressing the enzyme beta-glucoronidase, which causes a reversal in the glucuronidation process. Like so many things it could be a 'worsening before getting better'. None of the papers give a hint this could occur. But then they never mention this aspect of using progesterone either. Now I know I can warn other sensitive people to watch for it, you have been such a wonderful, willing guinea pig! Probiotics are not needed by the process, but as an adjunct to it, they also inhibit beta-glucoronidase. So does milk thistle. So taking these can do nothing but good. Pleased you've stuck to the same amount of progesterone, it doesn't pay to change things when trying something new. I was truly surprised your other GP said your oestrogen was normal, and couldn't be more delighted this one commented it was high. It was high, although still within 'normal' range, what startled me was the fact it had risen so quickly from it's previous level. This should have jumped out at any doctor. I'm so amazed at her changed attitude too, but so pleased she's come round. I really don't think you'll need to use so much progesterone for life! What does need looking into is why your oestrogen keeps shooting up, using the progesterone as a band aid is not ideal. Treating the symptom and not the cause is quite against what I believe. So I'm delighted she agreed to a scan, maybe she should check your oestrogen levels too. I'm sure we'll chat before then, but do let me know the results. Many hugs to you too, take care Wray x

Sep 10, 2012
Problems getting my progesterone cream on time.
by: Karenina

Hi Wray, I can't remember for sure but did you say Joy stocks the Natpro Progesterone cream in the UK? I normally buy my cream from Jean Morgan but it takes a week for it to arrive at my doorstep..this is with first class too! Many thanks Wray. Take care and hugs to you Karenina x

Sep 10, 2012
Problems getting my progesterone cream on time
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Tis most strange, but about two hours before I looked on the server for any comments that had come in, I began thinking about you and how you were getting on! I sometimes do that with telephone calls before they've rung, and very occasionally emails, but never anything on our server site! To answer your question, it's Jules who stocks it in London, but would it get to you any quicker? I'm amazed at RM, I thought their first class got to someone the next day. Anyway in case it helps you, it's best to contact Jules via her website here. Let me know if it helps. Do hope all is well, hugs to you too! Take care Wray

Oct 21, 2012
Ultrasound scan results
by: Karenina

Hi Wray!

How are you? I am so sorry I am late with the results of the Ultrasound scan in September...I had a lot of art work to do for an exhibition in Romsey. Unfortunately I had excessive overlying pelvic bowel gas where the left ovary was but it is good news re the other cysts and echogenic lesion. They have all stopped growing. Yes, they are still present but no vascularity, no free fluid, or adnexal masses seen! So I am very happy with the results. I have asked for another hormonal blood and thyroid test towards the end of this coming November.

I am still using 330mg - 400mg of Natpro progesterone cream a day (in two dosages a day) I cannot reduce it so I am going to stay with this amount until the Menopause. I found I was getting little more tired again, with difficulty getting up in the mornings lately and I decided to use three to four drops of Lugol's Iodine on the areas of my skin where there are veins. It has been two weeks and what a difference! I feel much more alert, this together with the progesterone cream I use all over my body and face. My breast pain is almost gone now. I plan to use the Lugol's Iodine drops daily indifinately, at some stage dropping to two drops a day...it contains 5.3mg of Iodide and 2.7mg of Iodine. I take this with two Brazil nuts a day (this contains Selenium which I cannot take
as a supplement)Also, Camu Camu powder for Vitamin C)I noticed from your other comments I need to take Tyrosine? so will get some next week.

I noticed that if I get symptoms of Asthma or hayfever rubbing your progesterone cream on my chest works very well for me. Also, I still take 15,000IU a day of Vitamin D together with the Turmeric and the Curcumin powder and that helps with my allergies too.

The pain has gone on the right side of my lower tummy area having taken a strong dose of Pre-biotics for a year now and will continue taking for the rest of my life. Again, I still feel the higher dosage of progesterone cream a day has helped with the pain too.

With the Magnesium I still can't take more than 150mg a day so I am going to buy some Magnesium Crystals in the hope I can up it to 250mg a day.

I am now taking Bee Pollen granules which is so rich in vitamins, minerals, enzymes, amino acids and anti-oxidants. I have tried taking Barley grass powder but I had a bit of a reaction so I am going to start taking it in very small amounts and gradually increase it in the coming weeks.

I am feeling really good at the moment and relieved that my cysts have stopped growing now. I did contact Jules and she has been fantastic! My order with her arrives within two days. Thanks Wray.

I don't know what I would have done without all your wonderful support...you are just amazing. Big hugs to you and take good care of yourself! You are very precious to us! Karenina x




Oct 23, 2012
Ultrasound scan results
by: Wray

Hi Karenina! So good to hear from you again, and with such wonderful news too! I don't know which is the best for me, I think the news about the cysts, as I was worried they were hanging around so long. But evidently it takes much much longer than I realised for them to stop growing under the influence of progesterone and vitamin D. Well I have learnt something!! It's so interesting you say that about the amount of progesterone you have to use, and that you will stay on that level till menopause. I had another comment last week from a woman who uses the same amount, who also decided she would stick to that amount till menopause too. Delighted too about the iodine, I'm sure that's what has helped your breasts. It's such a good way to use it too. I found some in a cupboard, long forgotten about, and tried some on my skin. To my horror it disappeared in a day, so I'm evidently lacking it, and will apply it till it takes days to go. Brilliant idea to eat some Brazil nuts, they do have high selenium, and a far better way to take it too. I did suggest tyrosine, see how you get on. Start low though, as too much brings back the symptoms you were trying to get rid of. Interesting you found the progesterone on your chest helped the asthma, it should of course, but always good to hear. About 2 months ago I ate something which really disagreed with me. I got a runny nose, watery eyes, couldn't stop sneezing, developed a cough which I never have, and then my chest began tightening up. I've never experienced it before and it's quite alarming! It was late afternoon by now, and I wondered how I'd be during the night, and if I should succumb to an asthma pump. But decided to put my trust in the progesterone and covered my chest and neck with it twice, then more before going to bed. Plus I took a massive dose of vitamin D, about 200,000iu's, and went to sleep. Well I woke the next morning fine, thank heavens! Fascinating the probiotics helped the tummy pain, they are remarkable things. Magnesium is such a problem mineral, so many can't take much and yet need it. Have you tried getting it in bulk from a farmer's co-op and using it in your bath, it is absorbed. I do this every night, and what about slow mag? Trouble is it's sometimes so slow it comes out whole the other side! I also had a reaction to barley grass, Jules is a great believer in it, has taken it for years, had her whole family on it growing up. So delighted Jules has been such a help, she's been such a good friend to me. You should get her to tell you of my days before discovering progesterone! Big hugs and blessings to you too! I couldn't have helped you, but for your courage to go forward with all the ideas I threw at you. I get such a lift when I hear that the natural things we are made of do actually heal us, hardly surprising! Take care Wray

Oct 25, 2012
So good to hear from you Wray!
by: Karenina

Ah bless you Wray...it is frightening when one get's an asthma together with a cough which I sometimes get too. When this happens to me I find taking a teaspoon of turmeric, using progesterone cream on my chest and taking a heaped teaspoon of MSM stops the asthma attack, the allergy attack and the cough within ten or fifteen minutes.

Thanks for your tip re using the Magnesium powder in the bath water though I only take a shower because we have very high levels of chloride and floride in our water here in the UK which means it would not be good to stay in the water for too long. Otherwise I love having a bath!

Since using Lugol's Iodine I find I can't use too much either...I have to give it a break sometimes. I read somewhere that when your nose starts to become very moist it is a sign the body has had enough for now??

I want you to know I am always here for you too and if ever you want someone to talk to email me if you like. I believe you have my email address if not let me know.

Take care and lots of hugs. Karenina x

Oct 26, 2012
So good to hear from you Wray!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Bless you being there for me! I've actually learnt much from you, which is a blessing, as I can pass it on to others. I'll remember the tip about the turmeric, a spice I love anyway. The MSM too, if I should eat something that does it to me again. I react badly to some things, had an anaphylactic reaction to a supposedly 'fresh' fruit juice. Turned out it was fruit concentrate with a huge number of preservatives! I turned scarlet, and my face became covered in spots and so swollen I looked like a char pei dog! Luckily my lungs didn't close up. This chloride thing is bad news, you can smell it in the water as you have a shower or run the bath. Wish we could return to the days when it wasn't in the water. The things they think up! Fluoride is wicked stuff too. I keep forgetting to put more iodine tincture on, maybe now you've reminded me I will! Not sure about the moist nose, mine is always moist! Take care and hugs to you too! Wray

Dec 08, 2012
Taken aback with the hormonal blood test results
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

I was really surprised when I received the hormonal blood test results yesterday...nothing much as changed except my estradiol levels have gone down from 1111pmol/L in June,2012 to 338 pmol/L as of 5th December, 2012! Yet I have been suffering from breast pain again recently which is even more of a mystery. LOL! I know that from the day I started having my periods which was around the age of 11 I would suffer with breast pain for two weeks prior to a period and one week after with no breast pain before starting again. This never changed throughout my life...I was always miserable with the breast pain with severe severe cramps in the stomach, radiating through to the back and sometimes it would be so bad I would pass out. My periods were always scant but I did have a double womb which didn't help either. Getting back to the new estradiol levels you do think it is now getting too low? Should I cut back very slowly or continue with the 350mg/400mg a day?

I mentioned about my dry cough and I did some research and discovered that Vitamin E can help with the cough and also with the breast pain! It is useful for many things So last week Monday I managed to find a Vitamin E that is not made from Soy and has natural ingredients containing d-alpha-tocopherol, d-beta, d-delta and d-gamma locophrrol . I started taking the drops in water and I cannot believe the cough has stopped altogehter and the breast pain is slowly going away! :o)

I would like to take Vitamin K2 but most of them are made from Soy...one can get other forms of Vitamin K2 that is not made from Soy so I am looking into it.

I would really appreciate your thoughts on whether to stay with the same amount of progesterone cream or start reducing it but to what amount?? Thanks so much Wray! Take care and loving hugs to you love Karenina


Dec 09, 2012
Taken aback with the hormonal blood test results
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm delighted it's come down! Levels range from 110.13 - 1468.4 pmol/L, so it's still within range. But like you I'm also baffled why your breasts are sore, as you're also taking the iodine. But so pleased you discovered vitamin E has helped, it is an amazing antioxidant/anti-inflammatory. I'll have to add that to our page on Breast Tenderness. And that your cough has gone. I rarely mention vitamin E as so many know about it and take it. But I've used it for years, excellent for burns and minor wounds. Sometimes if I feel my face is really in need of help, I'll apply some all over it. Best at night or when you are not expecting visitors, as your face becomes a shiny 'sticky' mess! I remember years ago my daughter got a very dry scalp. So I added some vitamin E to warm MCT oil, massaged that in, then wrapped her head in a hot, wet towel. Told her to keep it on till it was cool. The dryness had gone and never returned. I can't believe all the agony you experienced as a child and adult, how appalling. The sad part is it was so unnecessary. I feel now you've discovered the vitamin E and breast link, that you could reduce the progesterone slowly. It would be so good if you could as it does cost so much. Please let me know how you get on, would be most interested to hear. But then you always give me feedback which I so appreciate. I've learnt many tips from you! Take care Wray

Dec 09, 2012
The blood test results continue...
by: Karenina

Hi again,

I forgot to add something which I find rather strange about my hormone blood tests results and that is the amount of serum Progestrone has never altered much at all at 18.3 nmol/L in the last 3 or 4 blood test results but the estradiol levels have. The amount of progesterone cream I have used over the last year has not affected the progesterone levels...is that normal?? I have been wondering about this for the last two days. I am sure you will be able to put my mind at rest. Lol! Thanks again. Love Karenina

Dec 11, 2012
The blood test results continue...
by: Wray

Hi Karenina It is a bit of a puzzle! My memory! But do you use more progesterone when symptoms get worse, then reduce when feeling better? As this could account for it. Meaning the progesterone in countering the oestrogen would be metabolised quicker, therefore not increase. Your last scan and tests showed the one cyst had regressed, the other had not grown at all. This would account for the drop in oestrogen. I would say this indicates both the progesterone and vitamin D are at last beginning to have an effect. Let me know if you think I'm right. Take care, love Wray

Dec 12, 2012
I think you are right
by: Karenina

Bless you Wray! It really does help to hear what your thoughts are...though the breast pain is not so severe it is still quite sore. It may be that I need to increase the amount of Vitamin E...how many drops do you take or IU/mg do you take?

Yes, I do increase it when I feel I need it but only on the days when the estrogen symptoms are trying to present themselves and it is usually when I get stressed or when I have not used the cream at the usual times. For example I may have a lay in on a Sunday and don't get to use the cream till later in the morning? I am a little nervous about reducing my progesterone cream...I really don't want to go through what I have been through in the last year all over again but I am aware that I will have to try reducing it at some stage? Perhaps in the new year?

It is most interesting to hear about your daughter's dry scalp and how the vitamin E oil helped her... I use castor oil with some softer oil for my hair,scalp and face, and the itchiness and dryness has gone. I have had this problem for years! Your daughter must have been delighted with the results!

Wray, I would like to wish you a wonderful Christmas and lots of happiness and good health in the new year! Thanks again for all the support you have given me in the last two years...without you I would be in a very bad place by now. I am forever in debt to you. Take care, loving hugs to you love Karenina xx


Dec 13, 2012
I think you are right
by: Wray

Hi Karenina You're very kind, after all it is only my thoughts! Although it seemed to fit. I would suggest increasing the vitamin E and even opening a capsule, adding it to some oil and rubbing it on your breasts. I would be interested to hear if that helps. I'm rather absentminded when it comes to taking things! So I don't take vitamin E or C at all, they're not in any of the complexes we make either, as so many take them. I know I should, but stick to the Energy Boost we have, even then I forget to take it and wonder why I'm feeling so tired! I don't think a few hours either way will make a difference to the progesterone. You'd have to keep an hourly diary to find out if it did, that would be a bore! And don't reduce the progesterone if it makes you feel nervous, only when you are ready. The new year is not far away! So maybe later in the new year. I forget about castor oil, it makes a good compress for pain, an old wives remedy which seems to work. Very interesting you find it helps your skin and hair, I must remember that. Bless you for your wishes and kind words! It's been a journey for me, learning as you progress, I find it hard to believe it's been two years. I hope you have a merry and blessed Christmas too! Take care, love and hugs Wray

Feb 14, 2013
Just to say hello!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray! How are you in yourself? I am sorry I have not been responding much to some of the comments on this website...We are struggling financially so I am creating a website to sell kitchenware, batteries, travel bags, clocks etc. It is very challenging and there is a lot to learn but I am enjoying it. Since November I have been working 6 days a week, learning and creating my business website so I have little time for my art at the moment.

I read somewhere that you work from the early hours of the morning to late at night sometimes not having time to stop for a bite? You are very dedicated to your work! Please don't put yourself under too much stress...it is not good for you!

The progesterone cream is still working very well...I have managed to reduce it a little, probably by 16 ml? but I am doing it very slowly. Recently, I have developed a thrush which is not responding to the suppositories at the moment which is annoying.

Thanks for all your comments in response to my comments lately...you made me smile! I love doing research and will never give in with my quest to find something I am interested in. The internet is a wonderful reference site...better than the library now! I have a very inquisitive mind! Lol!

I am always thinking of you...take care of yourself, loving hugs and xx to you.Karenina

Feb 15, 2013
Just to say hello!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Always so good to hear from you! Your ears must have been burning, as I was chatting to Jules on Skype two days ago and she said she was about to send your Natpro to you, and what a wonderful person you were. I agreed! Yes I have missed your comments to others, always so helpful. So sorry to hear you are struggling financially, and do hope your website flourishes. It's hard work to get it going, as we found, but very rewarding once it does. And yes I do work long hours, but it never seems long to me. I often have to force myself to stop, usually at about 9pm! Luckily I live alone, so I don't have to look after someone else. Plus I have someone come in to do the house and washing for me, not good at that! Very pleased you've been able to reduce the progesterone, just keep doing it slowly, but then you know all about it. We do have a page on Candida you could look through. The best is caprylic acid. I use it in oil form, normally called MCT oil. It's a beautiful oil too, I use it for cooking, salads, smoothies, as a bath oil etc. It's very effective at killing some fungi. So is coconut oil, from which caprylic acid is taken. The best is lauric acid which also comes from coconut oil, but it does sting the skin. Coconut oil is about 50% lauric acid. We made a cream using it, and didn't used any preservatives at all, and it's still fine 6 months later. But not good for sensitive skins! The internet is a wonderful, fascinating place. I love reading books, but get frustrated when I see a word or term I'm unfamiliar with, and want to click on the word and look it up and can't! Bless you for asking how I am, couldn't be better, enjoying life and all it offers! Blessings and hugs, take care Wray

Feb 23, 2013
Thanks Wray!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,
Bless you, thanks for wishing me well with my website.
A few days after I said I have been able to reduce my progesterone cream by a very small amount I started getting some of my symptoms again! So I think my body is still not ready for it yet especially as I am close to the menopausal age.
Thank you so much for all the information on Candida...you are star! I am going to order some caprylic acid and give it a try though it has almost gone now. I really need to use something that will stop the candida from flaring up again don't I? I have suffered with Candida on and off for most of my life.
I am so happy you are well and enjoying life. Take care of yourself. Loving hugs and blessings to you too. xx

Feb 24, 2013
Thanks Wray!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Oh dear, you are so sensitive to it! Or you know your body far better than most of us. I'm so very vague about applying the cream, the amount I mean, as I never miss using it. I'm sure if I was more consistent it would easier on my body! I agree about the candida, it's worth keeping at bay all the time. I told you I use the oil for everything, so I haven't had a whiff of it for years. It's completely tasteless too, so can be used for foods where you don't want an overpowering taste of some oil like sesame or olive. Years ago, the wholesaler I get it from said I'd have skin like a babies' bum! The best is from Sternchemie in Germany, their website is here. They should be able to tell you who imports it into the UK, and then they can give retail details to you. It has been given an Ecocert validation for use in natural and organic skin care. I forgot to mention it's the oil we use in Natpro. If you have time to look through the blurb I've given you, you'll see why we use it. Love and hugs xxx Wray

Jul 18, 2013
Do you know whether your friend, Jules is okay
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

How are you doing?

I am concerned about Jules...do you know if she is okay?

I put in another order last week, Thursday, with the payment transferred into her account but I did not receive a response from her. So I emailed her again two or three times but no response? It is not like her. I hope she is all right.

Lots of love and hugs Karenina xx

Jul 18, 2013
Do you know whether your friend, Jules is okay
by: Wray

Hi Karenina I'm well bless you! I spoke to Jules who I hope has made contact with you. She was dismayed, as she checks her emails daily and there have been none from you. It seems the ether has taken them! She is well though, so you need have no concerns over that, so kind of you to ask. Lots of love and hugs to you too! Take care Wray

Jul 21, 2013
Thanks!
by: Anonymous

Awe that is so kind of you Wray to check whether she was okay...I appreciate what you did for me. I have since received my progesterone cream and now I am happy. :o)

I will be writing to you soon.

Take care. Lots of love and hugs to you! Karenina

Jul 21, 2013
Thanks!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina So pleased! She was dismayed she hadn't received your emails, but glad all is sorted out now. Love and hugs! Take care Wray

Aug 22, 2013
Need help with a small problem and advice needed re hormone blood test resutls.
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

How are you doing?

I am going crazy here! :( Since November last year (2012) I have experienced very bad symptoms of Candida...the itchiness is terrible, very sore down below, bad discharge, tiredness and irritability! I have tried MCT oil, different creams and gels, oil of oregano, application of progesterone cream to the affected area which makes it worse...and so on. I have not had candida for three years before then though I have had it on and off for the best part of my life. I am still on 333mg a day and the only thing that is new with my natural daily supplements is the Fresh Greens which I have been taking for the last three months. Also, I have not been taking the Energy Formula in the last year or so now. So I have ordered some more again. I have no pain with my breasts but I get very tired easily and my eyes are very sore these days. My memory is not brilliant at the moment either and I get quite dizzy at times especially if I move too fast. This is not like me but otherwise I am okay.

Also, I have just got my regular hormone blood test results today:

Plasma prolactin level has gone down again from 131 mu/L to 82 mu/L

The Plasma FSH level has increased from 9.5 iu/L to 98.4 iu/L

Plasma oestradiol level has gone done from 338 pmol/L to 73 pmol/L

Serum progesterone has increased from 18.3 nmol/L to 28.6 nmol/L

The Plasma LDH level is 339 U/L. This is not something I have had before?

As the oestradiol is quite low now do I need to cut back on the cream? Apparently, my oestradiol level is at post menopausal stage now. Is that correct?

I would appreciate any advice you can give me and your thoughts on my blood test results please. It would mean a lot to me. Thanks again.

Lots of love and big hugs to you Wray.

Aug 23, 2013
Need help with a small problem and advice needed re hormone blood test results
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Well this is a set back, how strange. I find it odd the MCT oil hasn't helped either, that's my fail safe method of controlling it. Have you been taking enough of it? A minimum of 5ml/day, but you can go much higher, although it is laxative! And applying it topically too. It's usually oestrogen which exacerbates Candida, as it increases the glycogen content of the vagina which the fungi live off. Applying progesterone there would initially increase the oestrogen making it worse. I've tried to look for the Fresh Greens you say you take, but there are too many on the web, which brand do you use? I want to look at the ingredients in case it is the culprit. Although it could be because you sound run down. Any pathogen will take advantage of that! The tiredness could be because you're not getting enough fuel into your cells, the Energy Boost should help that. I get sore, and 'dusty' eyes sometimes, all the dirt in the atmosphere now. So I make up taurine eye drops which I use. I just get taurine and distilled water, and some dropper bottles, and make a 2% solution, then put in lots of drops each night and morning to 'wash' them, I find it helps so much. Taurine is so important for the eyes, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Continued below

Aug 23, 2013
Need help with a small problem and advice needed re hormone blood test results Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Karenina And here, and here. You might consider taking some too. There is 500mg in the EB but maybe you could increase it to 2000mg/day. I'm delighted the Prolactin and oestrogen have gone down. It is in the menopausal range. And your progesterone gone up. Your high FSH indicates you're in Menopause, or the last stages of Peri-menopause. We do have a page on Hormone Testing you could look through. So irritating though, each lab/government has a different measuring system. And I haven't found the one which was given to you for the LDL, so have no idea if it's good or bad. It's usually done in mg/dL or mmol/L. You also need to know the HDL and the total too, just giving you the LDL is meaningless. It's the ratio which is needed. You can of course cut back on the progesterone, just watch for symptoms though! Let me know the brand of Fresh Greens you use please. Take care and lotsa love and hugs! Wray

Aug 23, 2013
Thanks for responding so quickly!
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

Maybe I should try the MCT oil again, but for how long? I was taking two tablespoons of it a day? I find the application of the MCT oil topicaly really irritates the area. I was tested in January this year and they detected a mild form of Candida which seems to have got worse over the months even though I had two weeks of pessaries at the time. I didn't want to take any antibiotics either. Yes, I thought it was strange that I should be getting candida when my oestrogen is so low now?? I forgot to mention I have been getting brown discharge in the last two or three weeks. This is something I am a bit concerned about. Also, I get yellow discharge which has been on-going for a few months now. It feels very sore inside as well.

I have only been taking Fresh Greens in the last three months...this problem started in November last year? The Fresh Greens I take is called, "Vibrant Health, Field of Greens" and I buy it from Water for Health UK. Hope this helps.

I will try the Taurine drops and take some too, thanks for your tip. I will read all your links first thing in the morning. Thanks for these...

So I am now in the Menopausal range...I am worried that if I stay on 330mg a day will the oestrogen level continue to go down to zero? Do I not need some to balance with the progesterone level?

My paperwork shows a range of 225.00 - 425.00U/L for LDH level. my test result was 339U/L.I don't have the LDL...I forgot to add the T4 level is 12.4 pmol/L and the TSH level is 1.40 mu/L. The range for these two results: 7.50 - 21.10 pmol/L and 0.34 - 5.60 mu/L.

Thanks for what you do for me. It really does help to share my concerns with you. You are just amazing...I don't know what we would do without you!

Lots of love and big hugs to you! Karenina



Aug 25, 2013
Thanks for responding so quickly!
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Well I am puzzled! 2 tbls is a good dose and should have helped, particularly if it's a mild form of candida. Did they check for bacteria though? This can cause vaginitis too which would make the area sore. And of course would not respond to the MCT oil, see here. These are some papers on vulvodynia and vulvar vestibulitis syndrome, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. They are not sure why it occurs. But as it's an inflammatory disorder, it could be you need more antioxidants? I've look at the ingredients in the greens you take and it has alfalfa. This has a high level of phytoestrogens, and an excess can cause lupus like symptoms. Because of it's oestrogenic affect, it could be the cause of your brown discharge. This is a paper you could look through here. Although they think the phytoestrogens could be protective, I tend to suspect them, after all they do act like oestrogen. Which of course many believe has great benefit to women! This is another good one here. Why not try stopping it for a bit and seeing if the discharge goes. If not then it's something else. They only check oestradiol, never oestrone, which is the oestrogen we make in menopause. Oestradiol ranges form 0-30pg/ml in a menopausal woman, see Hormone Testing. If you want to raise your oestrogen, then reduce the progesterone slightly. But do watch for symptoms returning! Seems your LDL is fine as it's within range, so are your T4 and TSH. Let me know if the taurine helps! It's the first thing I do before getting up, fumble for the dropper bottle and put some in. Then last thing before bed. I'd also like to know if stopping the greens helps the discharge. Lots hugs and loves, Wray

Dec 14, 2014
Vitamin K2 Menaquinone -7
by: Karenina

Hi Wray,

How are you?

Just like your thoughts on Vitamin K2 Menaquinone - 7. I understand that we should be taking Vitamin K2 when taking Vitamin D3 in order to re-direct the calcium from the blood to the bones...?? Is this correct...if so it has been said that Fermented Soy is the best and most safest form of Vitamin K2 to take. Again I am not entirely certain or clear about this. Dr Mercola sells it himself with a different ingredient called fermented Chickpeas. I have done quite a bit of research but I am no closer to what would be the best form of Vitamin K2 to take that will not interfere with my progesterone cream which is in the post menopausal stage. I would really value your opinion please.

Thanks so much for your precious time. Loving hugs to you. Karenina xx

Dec 24, 2014
Vitamin K2 Menaquinone -7
by: Wray

Hi Karenina Ideally we should be taking K2 when taking vitamin D, but it's a neglected vitamin. I think everyone assumes we all eat enough green leafy veggies. But looking at the processed foods eaten by many, I doubt we do. Vitamin K1 (phylloquinone) is found in green leaves, some then gets converted into K2 (menaquinone) by gut bacteria and various tissues. But many people have gut dysbiosis, with a lack of good bacteria, often because of antibiotics, Crohn's disease, coeliac disease, etc. A deficiency can also occur in people with a compromised liver, cystic fibrosis, or any inflammatory gut disease. Vitamin K2 is found in organ meats, egg yolks, and dairy products. Vitamin K2 has been found to reduce osteoporosis, calcification of arteries and cancer. Drugs which prevent coagulation block the action of vitamin K, conversely vitamin K2 can be given as an antidote for excess anti-coagulants. These are excellent articles here, here and here. Vitamin K is one of the cofactors for vitamin D ensuring deposition of calcium in bones, and preventing it's deposition in arterial plaque. Excess free calcium in the blood results in calcified arteries, heart disease and depression, see here, here, here, here and here. Dr Cannell recommends all the cofactors for vitamin D should be taken, magnesium, vitamin K2, boron and zinc, see here. This complex is one he recommends. I've not heard of fermented beans being used to make it, something I must look up. I don't think you need worry about a clash between the K2 and progesterone. Have a look at Dr Cannell's recommendation, he is usually spot on. Many blessings and hugs to you too! Take care Wray

Jan 09, 2015
Many thanks
by: Karenina

Dear Wray many thanks for your input...that meant a lot to me. As we speak I am now taking the Vitamin K2...

Hope you are taking it more easy and slowing down when you need to my dear friend.

May 2015 be a good year for you with lots of good health and happiness.

Lots of love and caring hugs and xxx

Jan 12, 2015
Many thanks
by: Wray

Hi Karenina You're such a darling, hugs and blessings to you too. I've just sent Jules a link to an article and interview of a Dutch researcher by Dr Mercola on vitamin K, very interesting. I asked her to send it on to you, so please remind her if she forgets to! Take care Wray

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