How much can I take?

by Andrea
(Canada)

Dear Wray,
(Please feel free to correct my phrasing, as English is not my first language)

First of all I want to thank you for your generous sharing about your knowledge in woman’s hormonal imbalances health issues. As it has been said a lot of times here, it is very uplifting and helpful to read through your website. Knowing that other women too have the same issues, makes one feel less sick and crazy, reading your advice gives hope.
My story: More than two years ago, at the age of 41, I suddenly, for the first time in my life, got sick. It all started by having a lot of water retention, gaining 5 kilos in 10 days without eating much, blurred vision, insomnia, total fatigue, extreme dizziness, constipation and a lot of other symptoms that pointed to hypothyroid.
So I started to see an Endocrinologist, a lot of tests were done; the outcome was, that my thyroid was working well (I don’t really agree with that, as my blood tests show that I have a 2,2 for the T3/T4 and it seems that this is considered for certain as borderline for hypothyroidism) I was then told to see a nephrologists, results for kidney function perfect, only an extreme high amount of aldosterone was found. But nothing that could explain any of my debilitating symptoms.
My fatigue got worse and worse, my dizziness made it most of the time impossible to leave the house. I had all kind of scans done, nothing found. Hmmm, would that mean that it was psychosomatic? I refused to believe so and started spending my time reading a lot about women’s health issues and especially about hormones, as deep down, I was convinced that it had something to do with a hormonal imbalance. Very soon after finding your website, I started using natpro in small amounts and felt AMAZING! I had a new life. Nearly better than ever before!
After the first month of using, the old symptoms came slowly back. I stopped using natpro for a while, and then restarted, this time with a higher amount that was 300mg. Still the symptoms were bad: a lot of dizziness, water retention, depression. Knowing about estrogen dominance triggered when using progesterone cream I went up to 800 and even 1000 mg for about 14 days (when using this amount all my symptoms beside water retention and breast tenderness are gone), but then became worried if I could use so much for a long time.
So my first question: Can I use an amount of 1000mg for a period of 3 month to get over my estrogen dominance? (Actually I present over 95% of all the symptoms listed for E. dominance.)
I am taking 5000 u of Vitamin D daily and quite the whole Vit B group. 3000 mg of Isonitol (My hair already got much better) Second and third question: Is there any supplement I could take to help my thyroid and to help with the constipation? Again, thank you very much.
Andrea

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Dec 12, 2011
How much can I take?
by: Wray

Hi Andrea There's no need to correct any English! It's wonderfully clear, and bless you for the kind words. I know what it's like having been through it myself. I had a dear friend who put up with my crying and all the rest of the crazy, sick times. She told me after I'd got better that she always dreaded me coming around! She was so astounded by how the progesterone helped me, that she now helps others with progesterone and the healing nutrients. That was 15 years ago, and knowing how the progesterone helped me, she began using it herself, so her transition through Peri-menopause was much easier. I'm pleased the Natpro helped you, but Oestrogen Dominance can come out of the blue. The high aldosterone explains the water retention, progesterone is an excellent diuretic as it has high affinity for the aldosterone receptors, see here and here. Excess water in the inner ear can cause dizziness, this was one of my symptoms too. Excess water also causes the focal length of the eye to change, hence the blurred vision. This occurs with me whenever I eat wheat. It blows me up! Why your aldosterone shot up was probably due to excess oestrogen, this encourages water retention, see here. And the excess oestrogen probably meant your ovaries were making little progesterone to counter it. Anovulation begins round about age 35, it increases in frequency until Menopause when the ovaries stop producing viable eggs. It could have been you had a succession of anovulatory cycles in a row, which would allow oestrogen to rise substantially, suddenly bringing on your symptoms. I mentioned progesterone being a good diuretic, so good it's now given via IV transfusion to TBI victims. It prevents the oedema and inflammation that occur due to the injury, see here, here and here. Amounts over 1200mg/day are given, so the 800-1000mg/day you've been using are fine. It's interesting you are having to use so much, normally I find about 400mg/day is enough to prevent any adverse symptoms. But it does depend so much on how much oestrogen is present and how long the symptoms have been occurring. Continued below.

Dec 12, 2011
How much can I take? Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Andrea We have one other woman, also in Canada, who has had to use so much. I suspect it's because of a lack of vitamin D, the TBI studies found combining progesterone with vitamin D, the benefit of progesterone was enhanced, see here, here and here. Please have a vitamin D test done, you are taking it and a good dose too, but it could still be low. The angle is too oblique in Canada in the winter to make any when it does shine. Even in early summer and autumn too, it's so far north, see here, here, here and here. For more info on levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. This is an excellent video to watch too, see here. I suggest you use the progesterone daily, through your period too, for 2-3 months. There's info on our page How to use progesterone cream which explains how to get your cycle back again. This enables progesterone to become the dominant hormone. Each time you take a break it allows oestrogen to rise again. I don't think you'll need as much if you do this. Particularly if you have that vitamin D test, it could be your level is low and need to increase the dose. A lack of vitamin D affects the thyroid too, see here, here and here. Continued below.

Dec 12, 2011
How much can I take? Part 3
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Are you eating enough protein? The precursor to T3 and T4 is the amino acid tyrosine, you could try taking some to see if it helps. Tyrosine drops when stressed, as it's also the precursor to the stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline, which of course rise. See our page Natural Antidepressants on how to take it. Selenium and iodine are essential for the thyroid too. An easy way to find out if the iodine level is low is to get a tincture of iodine. Put 3 drops anywhere on the inner arm, rubbing them in with the dropper. If the patch fades in a few hours it means there's a deficiency. Continue applying it until the patch takes days to fade. Alternatively have a blood test. The best thing for constipation is MCT oil, it's correct name is caprylic/capric triglycerides, see here, here and here. It's a source of energy, does not get stored as fat, and has a mild laxative effect. Plus it's very effective against Candida. I use it on all my salads and veggies, it's good for cooking with too. I must use about 30ml or more every day. Take care Wray

Dec 12, 2011
response to Andrea
by: Rosanne

Hi Andrea

Please read the book adrenal fatigue by dr. wilson. Adrenal problems can mimic thyroid problems because too little or too much cortisol(adrenal hormone) interferes with progesterone and thyroid absorption in the cells. I also had to take huge amounts of progesterone. I then began taking a supplement program for adrenal fatigue. My progesterone use was drastically reduced after taking and staying on these supplements. Please get a 4pt cortisol test. Usually if you have higher than average blood sugar and blood pressure you have high cortisol. If you have lower than average blood sugar and blood pressure you may have low cortisol. A supplement called Ashwangda is suppose to balance cortisol levels in addition to adrenal supplement program.

I take Thyrosense as I have no thyroid function and it is assists thyroid function.

Hope that helps a bit. I have researched this for two years and It really is about balance when we enter our 40's. Once you improve your adrenal function you should be able to resume a lower dosage. It takes about 2 weeks to a month to get the full benefits of a supplement program.
One more thing cut out coffee and caffeine. They reek havoc on our adrenals.
Take care.
Rosanne

Dec 12, 2011
1000 milligrams
by: Annette Canada

Hello Andrea I feel your pain. I have been on Natpro for 11 months, however better still battling symptoms. I have been on 1000 milligrams and sometimes more if I was really sick for 6 months. As far as I'm concerned your body is your guide when it comes to the amount your body needs. Every woman is different and for me I was on bcp for 15 years and it wrecked my body. Since you liv ein Canada you might want to consider also going on ESTROsmart by Lorna Vanderhaeghe and probiotics. You must read up on DIM and calcium d-glucarate these are some of the things that are in ESTROsmart. It will help detox your body of toxins and excess estrogen, I take 4 a day. You can get it at local health food stores. It takes time to come right but don't take breaks from progesterone until you are symptom free. You can work on a cycle after you are level. Great you are taking 5000 vitamin d a day. Hope this encourages on high amounts...

Dec 12, 2011
1000 milligrams
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne and Annette Thanks again for your input, always so good! Take care Wray

Dec 12, 2011
Iodine Protocol for thyroid & hormones
by: Chris

I just wanted to give this link to a yahoo group that I belong to on how to do the iodine protocol.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/iodine/

I have found it a really useful group for understanding the importance of iodine for thyroid health in particular but also the whole body.

Just briefly, to do the iodine protocol you need to take

12.5mg iodine (iodoral tablets from iherb.com)
200mcg selenium (carlson's brand from iherb is good)
400mcg magnesium
2000mg vitamin C
half a teaspoon of unrefined salt per day

These companion nutrients are vital to doing the iodine protocol properly so don't miss any of them out.

I have had improved energy and a lowered dose of thyroid meds since starting iodine. the woman who runs the iodine group cured herself of breast cancer. Definitely worth checking out. And I think it works in very well with the use of progesterone.



Dec 13, 2011
Iodine Protocol for thyroid & hormones
by: Wray

Hi Chris Thanks for the input! It makes sense to me, as I often ask women with sore breasts to try iodine as this is often the reason for them, see here, here, here, here and here. But too much iodine is also not a good thing. You'll notice one of the papers is about a lack of iodine and selenium possibly causing breast cancer. And another on how iodine deficiency is now sweeping the States again. Selenium, magnesium too, is low in soil, and subsequently our food. Another nutrient which is always overlooked is the amino acid tyrosine. Although a non-essential amino, tyrosine is one of the most important. It's the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine, and the stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. It's also the precursor to the two thyroid hormones T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine), plus melanin, the pigment found in hair and skin. It's part of the enkephalin peptide involved in regulating and reducing pain, and increasing pleasure. Lack of protein and stress lower tyrosine levels, with a subsequent reduction in dopamine and noradrenaline. Acute, uncontrollable stress depletes dopamine and noradrenaline, leading to depression and a rise in corticosterone, tyrosine reverses this. Tyrosine is essential for any stressful situation, cold, fatigue, emotional trauma, prolonged work, sleep deprivation, it improves memory, cognition and physical performance, and is used for weight loss treatments. It's hardly surprising tyrosine levels fall, many people are now so stressed. It has such a rebound affect on all systems if it drops too low, including the thyroid of course. Continued below.

Dec 13, 2011
Iodine Protocol for thyroid & hormones
by: Wray

Hi Chris The rate limiting step in dopamine synthesis is the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase. Insufficient levels of vitamin D inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase, resulting in a disturbance in the dopamine pathway. This is essential for motivation and vitality, levels rise when rewarded, resulting in feelings of pleasure. Interestingly a lack of vitamin D is implicated in hypothyroidism, see here, here and here. And of course progesterone, thanks for mentioning that! One final thing, I think you meant 400mg of magnesium and not 'mcg'. And of course this is one of the most important co-factors for vitamin D. Stress also puts a huge strain on the adrenals, making the three stress hormones mentioned above, adding tyrosine relieves the pressure. I love all the patterns in the body, it all makes such sense if taken as a whole, and not divided into parts. Take care Wray

Dec 13, 2011
Thank you!
by: Andrea

Dear Wray, Rosanne and Annette,
Thank you very much for your generous, encouraging and empathetic words. All of your responses mean very much to me. Actually I was so touched by all of your writings, that I had tears throughout all the reading. (well my Estrogen Dominance helps a lot for tears too ) Dear Wray, yes you are absolutely right about the water retention causing the dizziness by excess fluids in the inner ear. I remember that I came to this conclusion after leaving the emergency hospital (as I was not able to walk anymore) and when tapping a little bit on my ears I felt that there was somehow water in the system. Concerning my eyes, yes, there was so much water in them that I always had a glazing look. For what is the consuming of wheat, I just found out recently, that I am kind of allergic to it. My skin becomes very itchy when eating it and I get an allover sensation of restlessness, though I am usually a very quiet person. And yes again, I found out that my body handles much better protein than carbohydrates. In fact, it seems as if my metabolic system burns easily protein in addition with quite high amounts of good oils, like flaxseeds, organic olive oil, etc. Since eating “my diet” I am “melting” back to my usual proportions.
My benefits from natpro so far: First of all, most of the time I have my life back, and sometimes even, I feel better than ever before. This makes me wonder by the way, if I not suffer from Estrogen Dominance since Puberty. But back to my benefits: Much better skin, acne almost gone, estrogen spots on face faded, skin looks much younger, feeling more energetic, (even though I wished I had more stamina), water retention is less, dizziness is almost completely gone. So yes, I’m back to life; the only thing left that bothers me is that sometimes I get still depressed. I still have to find the the right dosage. So far I noticed, that when I use a high amount 800 -1000 mg of natpro, nearly all my physical symptoms are gone, but I feel depressed and cry easily and when I use a lower dosage, some of my physical symptoms persist, but my mood is ok. I will slowly reduce the natpro To 400mg and start in parallell Tyrosine. Also I will increase the Vit D to 10000 iu, as the sun here in Canada is less and less showing up. (Is there any link on the website to get tests such as the Vit D or other hormonal tests done?) Since two month I take natpro also during my period and I must say, that I am kind of scared to have a break of it next month. (getting out of space, continuing on next page)

Dec 13, 2011
Thank you part II
by: Andrea

Dear Rosanne, thank you very much for sharing your experience with adrenal fatigue. I found out about adrenal fatigue when my odyssey of sickness began and I took Ashwangda for a short while, then stopped it because it did not make any remarkable effect to me. But now I wonder, if I shouldn’t have persisted taking it. Is there any specific adrenal supplement program you could suggest?
Dear Annette, reading your first sentence brought me to tears again. But “Good tears”. Since being sick, I developed a real passion for woman’s health issues and spend a lot of time reading about it. It’s fascinating. So I came to know and already took Estrosmart but stopped it shortly after starting natpro. Maybe I should restart it. I am also wondering if I should retake a blood sugar stabilizer. As I remember when I took one with Natpro and Estrosmart, this was when I felt best.
Again, thank you very much to the three of you. I am quite in a hurry now, because I am going on vacation; but I really wanted to respond to you. Take care. Wray, whenever you start teaching in classes your knowledge, count me in. Hugs. Andrea

Dec 13, 2011
Iodine
by: Andrea

Hi Chris, thank you for your interesting iodine program suggestion! I will print out all the worthfull information I got from all of you and will take pleasure in studying them. A+

Dec 13, 2011
Iodine Protocol for thyroid & hormones re Chris
by: Rosanne

Hi

Thanks for that link Chris. I will definitely take a look at it. I am assuming all of those supplement dosages are per day? is that correct? I take all of them regularly except for iodine and have been thinking of taking it. I have no thyroid function so thought it would not matter as I think my dessicated thyroid contains iodine. Considering you are familiar with iodine use, what are other benefits of iodine? I heard it also helps restore the myelin sheath is that true.

Thanks for the link. If you have any other advise please let me know. I am hypothyroid, adrenal fatigue and low progesterone.

Thanks Wray for letting us learn from each other!!

Dec 14, 2011
Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Thanks for the kind words! I used to give talks, but now spend my time on the computer! I do have cousins in Canada, maybe one day I will visit them again, then I can meet you all. Don't reduce the progesterone until you feel ready, there's no hurry. As you saw Annette uses it as and when she needs it, increasing and decreasing the amount to suit. She's had a very rough ride too. And don't feel you have to stop the progesterone next month if you don't feel ready for that either. Although I gave you the page on natural anti-depressants, I should have given the page we have on Anxiety. It explains why it occurs and what to do about it. We don't as yet offer any tests, but please see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites for Vitamin D and ZRT Labs for saliva hormone tests. If you have blood glucose problems, please see our page on Insulin Resistance. It gives a list of nutrients which help, and in many cases reverses it. Annette introduced me to Estrosmart, and having looked through the ingredients I found it one of the few complexes worth taking. Most have far too low a dose, and none of the right ingredients for the purpose they're sold for. Enjoy your vacation! Take care Wray

Dec 14, 2011
Iodine Protocol for thyroid & hormones re Chris
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne I can't thank all of you enough for your input. There's nothing more encouraging to others to learn we've all been through it, or still going through it! Incidentally progesterone is remarkable for neuroprotection. I have so many papers I could give you, but far too many for here. Suffice to say it re-myelinates the nerve sheath, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. I find it fascinating that studies have found by adding vitamin D it increases the benefits of progesterone substantially in injured nerves. This is one reason I encourage people to have tests done, and to take vitamin D. Any stress can injure nerves, it doesn't have to be from a physical injury. Destruction of the myelin sheath occurs in MS, a very recent study has found a lack of vitamin D could possibly be the reason MS occurs and is increasing. The study was done in Canada, which has one of the highest MS rates in the world. Scotland leads with the highest, both countries lie far north of the equator. The paper is in Annals of Neurology, but has not been published on line yet, so I can't give you the link. Progesterone also helps MS studies have found, this doesn't surprise me. If only they would use both combined as they do for TBI, I feel sure it would be the end of MS. Take care Wray

Dec 15, 2011
contact you
by: Annette Canada

What part of Canada do you live in, I'm in Regina. Maybe we can connect by telephone. Maybe Wray can link you to Joy who knows how to get a hold of me. It would be nice to chat and encourage one another. I remember a woman named Eve that commented on one of my post. She had to be on high doses like me, if it wasn't for her testimony of coming level I would have given up a long time ago. It took her a year and it was a very long road for her as well. In saying that it's important to encourage one another and to know your not alone. Most of all you will come right. I would not drop the amount you are using until our are symptom free. Hope you are having a great holiday, Lord knows I need one after the year I have had. lol

Dec 15, 2011
contact you
by: Wray

Hi Annette What a lovely idea! This is Joy's website here, Andrea can contact her via this as you did. I remember that page of yours well, as I often give it to other women who are struggling, to encourage them. It's here in case you might like to see it again. Take care Wray

Dec 15, 2011
Thanks Wray
by: Annette Canada

Thanks Wray and I will be setting up my site after Christmas, I may have some questions for. Any other I can contact you?? xoxo

Dec 15, 2011
More Iodine related links
by: Chris

Here are some more iodine links that might interest people.

Also someone mentioned they thought they might be getting enough iodine through their thyroid meds. That is what I use to wonder too however, this is not enough, you do need to supplement beyond this and even if you have no thyroid gland you still need to supplement iodine. It is necessary for many other parts of the body.

The Iodine group link that I gave above is an excellent source of all information regarding iodine and what it can do for your health. But below are some additional links you can go to as well. Sorry I am not writing all the details here, my time is limited but at least I can point you in the right direction re info on iodine. Iodine is definitely a great support for hormonal imbalance and complements progesterone use well.


http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james5.htm

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/pdfs/IOD04.pdf

http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com/iodine.html

http://www.thyroidscience.com/cases/Derry.Iodine.Regen.6.7.08.pdf

http://www.iodine4health.com/body/thyroid/thyroid.htm

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iodine.html

Dec 16, 2011
Thanks Wray
by: Wray

Hi Annette I'm delighted you're setting up a website! As far as I'm aware we have no one in Canada who is directly involved, many users of course. Please make sure you have a contact us form on the site, not an email link, it invites spam. Then give me the URL to the site, I can then put people in touch with you. I do this with Joy, as it often helps a new user to talk to someone in their own country. To contact us see here. It doesn't come directly to me, it's primarily an admin link. But this might be the best contact if you're setting up a site, I'm clueless about that! If there are other questions you have related to progesterone use, it will then be forwarded to me. Take care xoxo Wray

Dec 16, 2011
Iodine Protocol
by: Chris

Yes I did mean to say 400mg of Magnesium ..not 400mcg..sorry

Not a problem! Take care Wray

Dec 16, 2011
Response to Andrea, question for Chris
by: Rosann

Hi

Before I answer your question Andrea I just wanted to ask Chris or Wray about the iodine tincture test. I did this test and the iodine mark lasted 5 hours. I can't remember how long it should last do you?

Andrea. You sound a lot like me. Aaaagh the water retention, weepiness etc, etc.. I too had relief from progesterone but when 500+ml was not doing anything I had to reassess what I was doing different because I previously got relief with 100ml. The only difference was that I went off my adrenal fatigue supplements. Once I got on Dr.Wilson's program and used the amounts recommended for moderate fatigue I felt better in two weeks and found the estrogen dominant symptoms were drastically reduced to the point I used 100-200ml of progesterone for only the last half of my cycle just to ensure I had enough progesterone. I also added some other supplements to tweak the repair of my adrenal glands. I think this is the root of my evil. When I look back the past 10years I would frequently get colds and flues, then I started getting allergies, then my metabolism was shot, then I had digestive problems, then I was having cold chills and other hypothyroid symptoms. I have a great doctor despite living in a little rural community in northwestern Ontario, Canada. She has worked with me for two years and she was the one that told me to check out Dr. Wilson's book. I learned alot from that book. I will post the supplements I take and lifestyle choices I choose to heal my adrenals in next post. Dr wilson has a a questionnaire to see if you have a degree of adrenal fatigue at www.adrenalfatigue.org/take-the-adrenal-fatigue-quiz

Dec 16, 2011
supplement for adrenal fatigue
by: Rosanne

Hi Andrea,
Here is my list,Ihope it helps.

Daily

400mg min of magnesium split into morning and evening dose
thyrosense 1-2 per day(to assist thyroid function)
100-200mg bio progesterone last two weeks of cycle
melatonin 1-3 mg at bedtime
dessicated thyroid 300mg daily

Dr wilsons adrenal fatigue supplements. Click on products at adrenalfatigue.org
adrenal c formula 2-3 per day
adrenal rebuilder 3-4 per day
Super Adrenal stress formula 3-4 per day
Herbal adrenal support 10 drops 3-5 times per day
Inner healing and squeaky clean one time per day to help repair digestive problems(heart burn, constipation are associated with cortisol levels)

In addition I find these helpful

pregnenolone one 25mg tablet per 2nd day ( I will only take this for a bit to help ease the burden on my adrenals)
phospatidyl serine 3-4 100mg tablets daily(known to lower cortisol levels(this has worked for me!!)
Ashwaganda - just starting to take this as it is to help balance cortisol levels ie. raise low cortisol and lower high cortisol.

I will never go off dr. wilson's vitamins again! I might be able to give up herbs once I repair my adrenals but this time I am giving it a good two years to repair them before I try to go off anything. I will always stay on progesterone as I am almost 46 years old and that hormone is most needed now.

If you have a drug plan I would suggest you get a glucometer prescribed and get a blood pressure machine. Low blood sugar and blood pressure are associated with low cortisol and high blood pressure and high cortisol are associated with high cortisol. I do not have high blood pressure but my fasting blood sugars sometimes go above 6. I then take more phoshatidyl serine and my blood sugars will return to normal the next day. When my saliva cortisol tests were low I had low blood pressure and low blood sugar. I remember the nurse saying you have a great bp and bs. My bp was 110/60 I am usually 125-70. My bs would be in the high 4's but this was low for me. I feel best at my normal bp and bs in the mid 5's. I check bs every morning in case my cortisol levels drop then I would not use the phosphatidyl serine and might choose 5htp instead as that raises cortisol levels. However I think I will always be high until I heal.


Dec 16, 2011
supplements i take cont'd
by: Rosanne

One last thing; high cortisol blocks thyroid and progesterone. This is why I needed such a high amount or progesterone and a high dose of dessicated thyroid. The cortisol blocks these other horomones from getting in the cells. The blood levels are high but the hormones are not getting in the cells. This is why blood work is not accurate, symptoms are. My doctor kept saying it was stress. I believe she was right and not until I realized that all stress physical and emotional wears down our bodies and steals progesterone to keep up. I now relax more, walk but no extreme exercise for now, no coffee or caffeine, and limit sugar intake as these are all hard on the adrenals.
I can actually say that I sleep like a baby, can go all day and not feel tired until the evening(despite working 30hours per week, 4kids and a husband :)) and my inner giggle is coming back. I just have to remind myself to do everything I am doing forever and not quit because I feel good. I think that is a common mistake. I am sure I will get lazy at times and crash again but I plan on not doing so :)

Take Care; and thanks again to everyone for your input. It all helps.
Rosanne




Dec 16, 2011
Contact Annette
by: Andrea

Hello Annette, just let me know if you got my e-maill? Do you have a website for I can contact you?

Dec 18, 2011
Supplements
by: Andrea

Hello Rosanne, very nice from you, that you took all the time to explain the adrenal fatigue programm. I allready took several tests for adrenal fatigue, they all showed a positive result. So I find myself having a progesterone deficiency, adrenal fatigue and some kind of hypothyroidsm (even though, that thyroid testing shows that I am in the "normal", I find my results high for me, as formerly I was hyperthyroid) and now I am a bit worried about taking all kind of supplements to heal. I just hope that my plan will work, and that it won't be too much supplements I am taking. Rosanne me too, in the beginning 100 - 200 mg of progesterone worked very well for me. And then symptoms came back, I then increased the dosage and since it is not that good lively feeling as it was when starting the progesterone. So slowly I am decreasing to 300 - 400 mg. ( I was up to 1000mg) and I think I should watch for my blood sugar levels. How do you test blood sugar at home? I also started taking Tyrosine. Since, my mood is ok, but I am far from being giggling, feeling lightness and being the person I like and used to be. To be continued.

Dec 18, 2011
From Annette
by: Andrea

No I have not received your email yet maybe contact Joy again and make sure it is correct =-)

Dec 18, 2011
Supplements II
by: Andrea

Rosanne, I just saw that for sugarblood tests you explained that there is a glucometer, so please ignore my previous question. So back to my everyday feeling: As I said, I miss the person I used to be. Rosanne, you too had a lot of water retention. Did it incomfort you as much as me? To me, the water retention was more than the physical incomfort. To me it meant, that I do not have control of my body. Everyday, depending on water retention or not, in the morning, looking in the mirroir is like seeing another person, because my face gets sometimes deformed by puffy eyes, a swollen nose and swollen cheeks. I am usually a skinny person and I find it hard to have those two identities. But I am hopefull that I will find my right dosage of progesterone and other supplements. My bloodpressure is low: 90/60 with a heartrate of 90, so this would point to low cortisol right? Actually all the symptoms you described, I have them, beside the colds. I will figure out my supplement plan and post it here. I can allready say that taking the inositol as Wray suggests against hair loss really works. I take 3000mg / day of inositol. Take care. Andrea

Dec 19, 2011
supplement for adrenal fatigue
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne Thanks for the list of supps you take, very helpful. You live in Canada, have you had a vitamin D test done? It's low in most people living there, see here, here, here and here. Please consider it and taking it too. It's needed by every cell to function normally, there's reason to believe a lack leads to hypothyroid symptoms, see here, here and here. I see you don't take tyrosine, unless it's in one of the complexes you're taking. Although a non-essential amino acid, tyrosine is one of the most important. It's the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine, and the stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. It's also the precursor to the two thyroid hormones T3 (triiodothyronine) and T4 (thyroxine), plus melanin, the pigment found in hair and skin. It's part of the enkephalin peptide involved in regulating and reducing pain, and increasing pleasure. Lack of protein and stress lower tyrosine levels, with a subsequent reduction in dopamine and noradrenaline. A drop in dopamine increases levels of prolactin, the hormone of lactogenesis, but also an inflammatory hormone. Dopamine is essential for a normal sexual response, increased prolactin causes a drop in libido. Tyrosine is essential for any stressful situation, cold, fatigue, emotional trauma, prolonged work, sleep deprivation, it improves memory, cognition and physical performance, and is used for weight loss treatments. Acute, uncontrollable stress depletes noradrenaline, leading to depression and a rise in corticosterone, tyrosine reverses this. The rate limiting step in dopamine synthesis is the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase. Insufficient levels of vitamin D inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase, resulting in a disturbance in the dopamine pathway. This is essential for motivation and vitality, levels rise when rewarded, resulting in feelings of pleasure. Tyrosine is used effectively for substance abuse. Please consider taking it if you're not. And the vitamin D. Continued below.

Dec 19, 2011
supplement for adrenal fatigue Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne I'm not sure if I've given you the details, but for more info on levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. And the minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Dec 19, 2011
thanks wray
by: Rosanne

Hi

Yes I should have mentioned I take 5-7000 iu of vit d daily and 300-mg of omega 3's also. The tyrosine is in my thyroid supplementation but do you know what the recommended dose is for adrenal fatigue?

Thanks so much for that information. I will gladly add that to my regimen as I still have some inflammation due to elevated cortisol levels.

Every little addition helps

Thanks again

Rosanne

Dec 21, 2011
thanks wray
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne I'm delighted you're taking that much vitamin D, but please have a test done. It could be you don't have sufficiently high levels, as you say you still have inflammation. Vitamin D is a potent antioxidant, preventing oxidative stress, see here, here, here, here and here. The amount of tyrosine is best done via experimenting, but always start low at about 500mg/day and work up. You'll know when you have too much as symptoms can come back. We have more info on our page Natural Antidepressants. Take care Wray

Dec 21, 2011
Contact Annette
by: Andrea

Hi Annette, Joy sent me an e mail, saying she would give you mine, may be she waits that you ask her to do so.

Hi Andrea Joy has given Annette your details, and Annette has asked her if you have made contact, but I don't think Annette reads her emails! I suggest contacting Joy and asking her for Annette's details. Take care Wray

Dec 22, 2011
Contact Details
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Annette and Andrea
I am confused as I have emailed you both putting you both in touch with each other. Did you not receive my emails. Andrea you did because you responded. I will send another email to Annette advising her of your contact details Andrea.
Hope this will help.
Take care.

Dec 22, 2011
Iodine test
by: Andrea

Hello, want to share my iodine testing with you. After getting tincture from the pharmacy, To find out, if an eventuell iodine defiency could be part of my health issues, I applied the tincture on 6 people with a an age range of 10 to 64. All the six of us had with hours going by, the same shade of colour. So I wonder if there is another, more effective test?

Thank you Joy and Wray, I will wait until Annette checks her e mails'

Dec 23, 2011
Iodine test
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Do you mean that in all 6 people who tried the tincture that the iodine patch faded within hours? If this is the case, then all 6 are deficient. The only other test is a blood or hair analysis, the tincture is cheap and easy! Take care Wray

Dec 23, 2011
Iodine test
by: Andrea

Hi Wray, yes, all the six of us, children and adults, had quite the same degree of fading. After 5 hours the colour faded into yellowish and disappeared almost completely within 24 hours.
As the six of us have different lifestyles, ages, genders, places to live, I wonder if the test is really accurate and that we all are deficient.
I wish you all vey happy holidays and nicely balanced hormones. Andrea

Dec 24, 2011
Iodine Loading test
by: Chris

You can also get an iodine loading test to get accurate levels of iodine in your body. I believe the blood tests are not very accurate for iodine.

here is a link explaining it:

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

It is very common to be deficient in iodine these days particularly because we have other halogens in our environment like bromide, fluoride, chloride that will displace iodine making it even more difficult to obtain sufficiency in iodine.

The skin patch test is not particularly reliable, but it is certainly the cheapest method to use.

I personally didn't bother testing myself because with having already poor thyroid function it seemed fairly obvious I would need iodine as one of the components to improved health.

Also check where you live, is there an iodine deficiency in the soil there? There are areas that used to be called "goiter belts" throughout the world known to be low iodine areas where people frequently got goiter.

Dec 24, 2011
re andreas question
by: Rosanne

hi Andrea

To test blood sugar at home get your doctor to prescribe a glucometer with strips and your drug plan will pay for it. The glucometers are usually free but the strips are expensive so having a drug plan is beneficial. There are instructions when you get the glucometer.

I know it sounds like alot of supplements. I was also leary of taking so much. However when I read how depleted the adrenals can become after years and years of working so hard it only made sense that they would need care and nourishment for a length of time to heal. From what I read this time period can be anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. As I feel better I will go on a maintenance dose but for now I am feeding my adrenals to recover. Try and come at it from all angles. Nourish the adrenals, take progesterone, and try to reduce physical and emotional stress. Try dr. wilson's program for two weeks to a month according to his suggestions for different levels of adrenal fatigue. If you do not see a difference then do not take them anymore. All I know is that I was out of town yesterday and did not have supplements with me and I am a little under the weather so I am thinking they really help me from day to day. I have some friends that feel just like me and are on steroids, antidepressants etc. I believe the supplementation is better than that route.
Once you get your adrenals under control hypothyroid symptoms should reduce.

Quick question for Wray regarding iodine. How long should the iodine tincture last on the skin? I did mine again and is lasted 12 hours. I am thinking that is okay or is it?

Merry Christmas everyone!!; enjoy a safe and restful day

Rosanne

Dec 25, 2011
Re Rosanne
by: Andrea

Hi Rosanne, thank you for suggesting Dr. wilsons adrenal programm. I will definately give it a try and then report if it helped me. My plan is, to combine the adrenal supplements with whatever amount of progesterone my body needs for the moment ( Initially, I wanted to reduce the progesterone, because I was afraid it was too much, but then decided to increase until I feel as good as I did when I first started natpro), I also take the supplements suggested by Chris for the Iodine protocol, ( despite the 12,5 g of Iod, as I am not officially diagnosed hypothyroid). Plus I take up to 10.000 u of vit D3.
Take care
A+
P.S. Rosanne do you take good amounts of vit C? To my knowledge in case of adrenal fatigue, the vit C levels are depleted and therefore need some supplementing, often until 3000 mg are recommended.

Dec 26, 2011
re vitc for adrenal fatigue
by: Rosanne

Hi Andrea

Yes you are correct. High amounts of Vit C are needed for andrenal function in addition to other vitamins. Dr. Wilson's adrenal fatigue program includes vit c along with other vitamins and minerals needed for recovery and maintenance of the adrenal glands. I take super adrenal stress formula, adrenal rebuilder, adrenal c formula, and herbal adrenal support along with magnesium and his digestive supplements as my cortisol levels affect my digestion.
I hope it works for you. I would wait until a couple of weeks on his program before reducing your progesterone. You should feel a difference and realize you do not need as much. I was taking it all month and now I am taking it last two weeks. Adrenal fatigue is a tough battle and it is normal to see progress and then low periods followed by progress once again so hang in there and give it a good try. Research adrenal fatigue. It is very complex and the research will allow you to understand what is happening with your body. If you are able to get a 4pt cortisol saliva test; Rocky mountain labs do it in canada and Diagnostechs in the usa. This way you will know if you are over producing or underproducing cortisol. If you document your symptoms at the time of the test you will recognize the symptoms of low or high cortisol.
Let me know how it works for you and I will try to offer more help if you need it.

take care
Rosanne

Dec 26, 2011
Andrea Dec 18th question
by: Rosanne

Hi Andrea
I missed your Dec. 18th question. Yes that bp along with higher pulse points to low cortisol. The reason for the high pulse from what I understand is that adrenaline kicks in trying to compensate for the imbalances. I too had low cortisol along with high pulse. My bp has now returned to normal along with pulse. I just caught a flu bug so that stress has brought on a few symptoms again. I am plugging away not missing a supplement dose and taking progesterone during this stressful time. Yes, I also battle water retention but it is on and off and currently a little worse due to flu. I was puffier,more bloated and more water retention when cortisol was low. I do not know if it is related but I have tissue, muscle and joint pain/discomfort with it. Dr. Wilson suggests 1/4tsp sea salt 2-3 times per day with the program. I am back to doing this as it helped when I was previously doing it. Our adrenals maintain electrolytes so the theory is that the water retention is due to imbalances in electrolytes. The recommendation is less potassium and more salt ie. sea salt. It is suggested to eliminate or reduce foods with potassium until electrolytes are balanced. The progesterone and dr wilson's program should slowly bring up your cortisol levels. Once you have low cortisol they say it is adrenal exhaustion and the program for severe adrenal fatigue is warranted. Give the program a month and doing it as directed should give you improvements. I think low cortisol makes you feel worse than high cortisol but both are very dicomforting. http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/dr-wilsons-programs-for-stress this website displays supplement program. I wish you well and I know how horrible this can be so hang in there. If I knew what I know now I would most likely not have been so sick for two years. Just hang in there and do not give up. Your health will return.
take Care
Rosanne

Dec 29, 2011
Low Cortisol
by: Andrea

Hello Rosanne, Thank you for your answer. Your writing matches exactly what I experience. In addition, I actually have a flue and most of the symptoms are coming back. What I Find difficult to handle is, that there seems to be no stability in my recovering. Sometimes I feel quite good and then out of the blue, symptoms are coming back. I aam also still struggling to find my doses of progesterone. I am ok to take high amounts of progesterone, but do not want to overdose either. I wonder if there is a symptom list who clearly difference too much estrogen symptoms from too much progesterone?

I am about to command on Dr. Wilsons website. I will give feedback of how it works for me. Thanks again. Take care. A+

P.S. May I ask about your BP? Mine is most of the time 90:60 with HR 90.

Dec 30, 2011
Hi Andrea
by: Rosanne

Hi

My BP was 110/60 when I had low cortisol. BP will go high when you have high cortisol. However it all depends on your normal blood pressure. I know what is low and high because my bp was 125-75 ever since I was young. I consider that my normal bp and look at that when I am trying to figure out if my cortisol is low. After fighting the flu and then getting it aaagh I now have low cortisol.Just too much stress for an already compromised body. I have a headache, dizzy upon standing, light headed, bp 108/60, fasting bs 5.6, water retention ,air hungry, thirsty and hungry. Now I am once again crashing after that flue. I am not a bad as I was before and these symptoms are mild compared to before taking adrenal support. Good days followed by symptom return is very common of adrenal fatigue and is part of the recovery process. It takes up to two years of eating right, doing mild exercise, reducing stressors and taking supplements to recover. The reason I use dr. wilson's protocol is because this is his area of study and he balances what you need in his supplements and tells you what to take and when depending on you level of adrenal fatigue. It leaves the guess work out of it and from what I have read if you take too much of one thing and not enough of another then you are stressing your body once again. What a battle. To really get an understanding of this, read dr. wilson's book adrenal fatigue; it is in paperback. You will not be able to put it down. I read it in two days as it described me to a tee. Another great explanation of this process is Dr. Lam so internet search Dr. Lam adrenal fatigue. He gives a very easy to understand explanation of adrenal fatigue.

I WILL CONTINUE NEXT PAGE

Dec 30, 2011
CONTINUATION LOW CORTISOL
by: Rosanne

Just a couple of notes. Take your bp after resting 10 min. and lying flat then stand up and take it. If your bp drops or stays the same you are in later stages of adrenal fatigue. Also use a flashlight in a dark room and point to your eyes. If your pupils have a hard time closing or quiver then you are in later stages. Dr. Wilson explains this in his book. I had a hint of both of these tests. Also erratic body temp is indicative of later stages. The first thing I noticed was being warm after treating myself with supplements. I always had cold chills before.

Your bp was low so you might want to get a saliva cortisol test before starting supplements. Some people need cortisol to meet the demands of their body but dr. wilson strongly discourages this and says to only use this as a last resort. As for progesterone the overdose symptoms are sleepiness. The sleepiness is the give away. My doctor felt sleepy on a small amount of progesterone. I was never sleepy on it, it made me feel better. If you have adrenal fatigue you will not absorb thyroid or progesterone in you cells. This is why you have hypothyroid symptoms and need so much progesterone. Once you address adrenal issues, hypothyroid symptoms and estrogen dominance should reduce. Mine did. You need just the right amount of cortisol to absorb these hormones into the cells. Adrenal fatigue makes estrogen dominance worse. Make sure you get dr. wilson's quartet to start and then you can others as needed.
If you have any more questions let me know. I understand this battle so hang in there. I go back to dr. wilson's book when I get discouraged with symptom return. It reassures me that there is not magic bullet and it is a process.

take Care and Happy New year!!

Rosanne

Jan 03, 2012
Re Rosanne Adrenal
by: Andrea

Roseanne, again thank you very much for your valuable information and all the time you took to respond. It is kind of recomforting for me to read that it is symptomatic for adrenal fatigue to have periods of feeling good and recovering and then being back to disabeling symptoms. For the moment I feel quite good. I am back of taking high amounts of natpro, vit d, magnesium, estrosmart and high amounts of vit d and vit c. ( when taking the vit c twice a day I feel nearly immediately relief) . I also got adrenal health supplements from gaia, containing rhodiola, basil leaf, ashwaganda root, schisandra berry and wild oats milky seed. Today I will try to get Dr.
Wilsons book. I am sure you saw the soup recipient for adrenanal fatigue on his website. I tried it and love it! Actually I will do at leat two soup days a week, supporting adrenals. I found other receips, if anyone is interested I will post them here.
So, a I said I feel good or the moment, only when exposed to big surface commercial with lots of lights, neons and all kind of magnetic fields I get nearly immediatemy very dizzy, feeling sick and having headache. Due to xenogenes I guess?
Wishing you all a happy and healthy year! Andrea

Jan 03, 2012
recipes
by: Rosanne

Hi Andrea


Thanks for the recipe tip. I don't remember viewing that and I am going to check that out. I am back on the mend after that dreadful flu. If you have other recipes I think it would be good to post. I was rereading Dr. Wilson's book. If I remember correctly the periods of feeling good followed by symptoms returning is when the body detoxifies. The adrenals run so many hormones so keeping them healthy is the first line of defense.I guess our liver gets bogged down when our adrenals are weakened.

With regards to progesterone, the one thing I remember reading is that progesterone receptor sites down regulate when there are no breaks with progesterone.Therefore receptors are not as sensitive to pick up and use progesterone. This might also be another reason for needing high amounts of progesterone.I am still using 100-200ml of progesterone just second half of cycle and feeling well again after that flue. For me the supplementation has helped. I am also using less supplements for now and just using dr. wilsons plus magnesium omegas and vit D as I read too much supplementation can also lead to stress on adrenals. Quite the balancing act. Do not forget to take magnesium also as the main nutrients for the adrenals are magnesium, vitc and bcomplex along with minor nutrients like copper. Dr wilson recommends 250mg in the morning and 250mg in the evening of mag. I sometimes take 400mg in the evening as it helps with sleep also. Have a page marker when reading his book as you will want to return to the information again and again.

Thanks for everyone's input. This has been very educational. Let me know how it goes Andrea. I hope this is the culprit for you and you can manage it. I am wondering if you response to the lit up parking lot(if i remember correctly) is a stressor for adrenals. The eyes show the signs of adrenal fatigue. It will be interesting to see if this sensitivity reduces as you heal your adrenals. Dr. wilson outlines three self tests for adrenal fatigue in his book. Try them and let me know how your body responds(I am just curious). I had a slight response to these self tests but I think I caught this beast before it got too bad.

Take care and here's to our health in the new year!!
Cheers
Rosanne

Jan 05, 2012
recipes
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne I haven't made any comments in your 'chat' with Andrea, which I've found so interesting. I love the way others want to help, to encourage them to use the natural route. But would like to say something about the progesterone receptors becoming 'insensitive'. I don't believe this is true. I've experimented over the years, by stopping it's use, or increasing it substantially. In both cases I've responded with adverse side effects. I don't stop it now as I know what that feels like! I normally use about 170mg/day, but occasionally top myself up by using 2tsp or 330mg/day. I become very irritable, ache all over, very tired too, and I feel so old! It takes about 2 weeks before things right themselves on this high amount. Which is when I begin reducing the amount slowly back to the ±170mg. It's been found that progesterone is capable of stimulating it's own synthesis. The typical negative feedback system seen in other endocrine tissues does not operate in the corpus luteum, and at the end of the luteal phase, in spite of LH secretion, the corpus luteum regresses and progesterone secretion declines, see here. So it's a remarkable hormone, and if the receptors did become insensitive, the system wouldn't work. Take care Wray

Jan 05, 2012
thanks wray
by: Rosanne

Hi Wray

Thanks for that information. I had just read about it on many sites but I am sure it is just speculation. I am curious, does progesterone build up in our bodies or does the extra we do not need get eliminated?


Jan 06, 2012
thanks wray
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne Yes, so many sites comment about receptors becoming insensitive. Another one is the story doing the rounds about build up in fatty tissue. Which would imply of course that the receptors would become insensitive! I have yet to see a study showing it builds up in fatty tissue, and stays there, but I've only found one paper so far which says it's not, see here. This paper is fascinating, it was published back in 1970, see here. It seems that during the proliferative phase, ie follicular phase, progesterone is concentrated in fatty tissue. But during the secretory or luteal phase, it's found in the skin, uterus, and myomas (fibroids). So the site seems to change with the menstrual cycle. This is understandable when one looks at how important progesterone is for the uterus. But during the follicular phase, levels are very low as it's only secreted in the luteal phase, and plays no part in the follicular phase. Progesterone is important in it's own right, but it's metabolites are just as important, see here, here and here. One in particular is allopregnanolone, it's a potent analgesic, anxiolytic and anti-inflammatory. In fact progesterone is broken down into many metabolites, see here, before it's finally excreted mostly in the urine. Here's another paper on it's metabolites. Finally this paper here explains steroid hormone metabolism. As the body is designed to metabolise progesterone, and other hormones, it seems highly unlikely for it to get shunted into fat cells, and there to stay! Take care Wray

Jan 19, 2012
Anti Adrenal Fatigue Soup
by: Andrea

Here is the receipt, supposed to help with adrenal fatigue:Anti Adrenal Fatigue Soup

1/tsp of pink Himalayan or Celtic Salt
4 to 5 cups of Spinach
1 ½ lbs of lean ground beef, turkey or chopped chicken
1 tsp olive oil
1 onion
1 red, yellow or green pepper
1 squash
8 oz of chopped mushrooms
1 tsp chopped garlic
1 bottle of tomato juice
1 can of pinto, garbanzo or black beans, rinsed and drained
1 can of crushed tomatoes
1 tsp fresh lemon juice
1tsp ground cumin
½ tsp cayenne pepper
¼ each fresh cilantro and parsley leaves, chopped

Cook meat for 5 minutes in olive oil. Remove from pot. Cook in same saucepot, onion, pepper, squash, mushrooms and garlic for 5 minutes. Stir in the rest of ingredients. Cover and bring soup just to simmer for 20 minutes. Add cilantro and parsley. Simmer again for 5 minutes.

The more organic products you use, the better it is.
Hope it helps, Andrea

Jan 20, 2012
Anti Adrenal Fatigue Soup
by: Wray

Hi Andrea It sounds delicious! Take care Wray

Jan 20, 2012
thanks
by: Rosanne

Hi

Thanks so much for that recipe. It sound yummy. Hope you are feeling better especially with our cold weather. eeeek -32C this morning.

Rosanne

Jan 21, 2012
Hair thinning
by: Andrea

You are all very welcome! Rosanne, I almost finished reading the book. Now I struggle to give up my belooooooooved coffee!:) I still find it difficult to deal with the unsteady symptoms my body is surprising me with much too often. But I understand that its part of the detoxing process. The very good thing is, that I am functioning again. My debilitating dizziness is almost completely gone. What is left is water retention. That is, even though I eat very healthy, no toxic products etc. I will sometimes wake up with 2-3 kilos more and then it goes away. There is absolutely no rule, no way for me to figure out what makes all this water coming and going...
Another thing that really really bothers me, is my thinning hair. (But eyebrows are back) Wray, I allready take 3000 mg of Inositol and Biotin against thinning hair and hair loss. Plus the VIT B, C and D. Anything other you can recommand? Take care you all. A+

Jan 22, 2012
Hair thinning
by: Wray

Hi Andrea I'm so pleased things are looking up for you. I've found N-acetyl cysteine is good too, about 2000mg/day…..but it's very sour! And smells of sulphur too, not everyone's cup of tea! I take it everyday now, and have for years. It's a potent antioxidant because of the sulphur. Some research has found a lack of antioxidants causes the hair to shed, the follicle seems very sensitive to this. Cysteine is very good for the skin too, makes it very strong. You might like to read these comments for encouragement, see here.
here. It does take time for it to stop falling out, and then months for it to grow sufficiently to make a difference. Take care Wray

Jan 22, 2012
Alderstone
by: Rosanne

hi

I too have on and off water retention. I get alot of water retention especially in my lower legs. For the past week I have taken ashwagandha 2 450mg tablets per day in addition to the quartet from dr. wilson. The ashwagandha has helped so far. The water retention and body aches are now minimal. From what i understand ashwagandha keeps low cortisol levels circulating longer and clears out cortisol quicker when there are high cortisol levels. I fluctuate between high and low so this herb is a better option for me and I have seen a difference.

From what I understand the water retention is due to alderstone which is another adrenal hormone.If fluids decrease & sodium decreases & potassium increases, then aldosterone increases & water retention increases. If fluids increase & sodium increases & potassium decreases, then aldosterone decreases & water retention decreases. I add more sea salt to my diet when I am retaining water and it appears to decrease the water retention. I believe dr. wilson talks about alderstone. I often go back and reread sections of his book to unravel the complexities of having adrenal fatigue.

Hope that helps.
ttyl

Rosanne

Jan 23, 2012
Alderstone
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne Aldosterone does seem to be the key to fluid retention. It is made in the adrenals from progesterone. Interestingly women with PMS suffer more from fluid retention during the late luteal phase. This stands to reason as women with PMS have higher oestrogen/testosterone and lower progesterone than the norm, see here. Progesterone increases sodium excretion, see here. This paper is interesting, showing progesterone is a potent antagonist of the mineralocorticoid receptor, see here. Ray Peat is good on water retention, explaining oestrogen's role, see here. The kidney produces a hormone called renin, this stimulates the adrenal glands to release aldosterone. High levels of renin and aldosterone cause the body to retain water and sodium. Often a lack of vitamin D disturbs the renin-aldosterone-angiotensin system, causing these hormones to increase. Please check your vitamin D levels. Take care Wray

Jan 23, 2012
Protocol
by: Joy (South Africa)

Hi Andrea - may I suggest that you stick with one protocol at a time otherwise you will not know which one is helping you. It may be a good idea to have your prolactin level tested as this could be low, if it is low you need tyrosine. I have emailed you in this regard.
Take care.
Joy

Feb 05, 2012
andrea checking to see how you are doing
by: Rosanne

hi Andrea

Just checking to see how you are making out. I just wanted to let you know that I have been able to reduce supplements and for the first time in 2years I was able to work out hard and have normal sore muscles instead of crashing.

One thing I think i forgot to mention was the dim.Orthomolecular has one with added ingredients to move estrogen out of the body called CDG estrodim. It is expensive so I take one pill twice per day.Here is my current protocol that has got me to his point.

morning- dr. wilson's supplements one of each, CDG estrodim and one regular estrodim(simply to save a few bucks). 50 mg progesterone
Afternoon- 2 natures way dim(one of the cheapest but i find it works and gets me through afternoon symptom free)

before bed- one of each dr wilson supplements, 1CDG Estrodim, 1 ashwagandha(450mg)(balances cortisol levels, 150mg progesterone. I sleep so well which speeds recovery

I was just thinking of you and wanted to share.I went at it hard and upped the dim in addition to my supplement protocol from last entries. This protocol has really worked for me. I feel well and now I jut have to remind myself to take them. I will continue to reduce as needed but for now this seems right for me.

take care
Rosanne

Feb 06, 2012
Rosanne
by: Andrea

Hello Rosanne! So nice to have news from you! And how happy and relieved you must be that things are going so much for the better for you! I think you can be really proud of yourself that you took so good care for you! Actually I was thinking of you too and therefore contacted Joy to exchange e-mails with you. If you contact her via her website and ask for my e-mail she will give it to you.
I reduced the progesterone intake from 800-1000mg
to 340 mg daily.I take VIT C, B, D + an adrenal supplement and I ordered the one from DR. Wilson this morning.
Dizziness and water retention are still present. and new Headaches (maybe because I stopped coffee). And I still have the 5kg more on the scale...thinning hair:( But as I said before: I am functioning again. So this is big progress:).

So how much time it took you until you feel that better, Rosanne?
Take care and good continuing to health, strenght and beauty! A+

Feb 07, 2012
Hi Andrea
by: Rosanne

Hi Andrea

Everything I did helped a bit but when I look back I would try one protocol at a time and not take enough of each.It helped but did not seem to correct the problem. Taking DIM throughout the day and taking ashwagandha before bed and in the day if i needed it( my cue is irritability, fatigue, muscle weakness). Adding these in addition to the progesterone and dr. wilson's supplements for moderate fatigue seemed to stop the viscous cycle.

I look at it this way. Dr Wilson's supplements are to restore the adrenals, the progesterone restores progesterone levels, the dim is to move extra estrogen out of the body so it does not continue to cycle in my body causing a host of symptoms and damage and the ashwagandha balances the cortisol levels. From what I read, Estrogen dominance and adrenal fatigue go hand in hand. If the adrenals are out of whack then estrogen dominance gets worse, if estrogen dominance increases then you wear out your adrenals, then add the stress on the body from the water retention, weight gain, headaches, etc and we find ourselves in a viscous cycle. I noticed after working out that I have to sometimes take ashwagandha during the day. Exercice increases cortisol levels so this helps balance that so I do not find myself in that never ending cycle.

I find that this has been the best protocol for me so far.

What is joys website? I can get your email from there and then we can help each other out that way.

take Care
Rosanne


Feb 09, 2012
Contact
by: Anonymous

Rosanne, it's progesterone-info.com.
Looking forward to hear from you!

Wray, your post from the 23 of January explains exactly what was happening to me: Extremely high levels of renin and aldosterone. Since adding salt, like Celtic and Himalayan to nearly everything I eat and drink, it is slightly improving.
For the lack of VIT D who seems to be one component for this issue, I take 10.000 U of VIT D
and once a week for 10 minutes I go to the tanning bank. It feels so good!

Take care. A+

P.S. I have used natpro since more than 6 month non stop, ,now I want to make a break for the 14 day cycle. Having a cycle of 25 days, should I start on day 11?

Feb 11, 2012
Contact
by: Wray

Hi Andrea Glad the info was of help. And tanning does feel good, specially so in mid winter! Don't forget to have your level tested every 6 months. You are right, if you have a normal 25 day cycle, start using the progesterone again on day 11. Please watch for any signs of oestrogen dominance. I hope with all you've been doing in the past 6 months, (can't believe it's that long!) that you won't get any. Let us all know how you get on. Take care Wray

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