How I discovered the wrong level!

by Zoe
(London)

I'm 46 years old, I've been suffering a sudden onset of pannic attacks for about 8 months that I was able to link directly to the 14 days before my period. My periods stopped for 3 months guess what? So did the panic attacks.

I was advised by my Doc to try Cognitive Bahavioural Therapy and so I did. It didn't do anything - but then again I knew it wasn't in my head, I could feel that my body was just.. well .. not right? Consulted the Doc again who took bloods and confirmed that I had high Oestrogen. The solution is anti-depressents she said. I wasn't convinced it was so I found a specialist who gave me Biodentical 100mg Progesterone Tablets.

The effect was awful, day one was fine but by day 2 and 3 I was so anxious that I didn't want to leave the house (I did as I'm not giving into this!). I called the specialist (as she asked) and told her. She said (quite abruptly) it was all psychosomatic and at that point I just cried. Until I came home and saw on your website that Oestrogen Dominant folks when taking Progesterone can get worse as the Oestrogen receptors are stimulated... and that it will level out. I've still not managed to work out how to take Progesterone but THANK YOU for the data on your site as I can't tell you how upset and utterly hopeless I felt and I'm just not that type of person. I'm taking a few days to work out another strategy (diet, as I'm overweight would be a good start) and hopefully find a way to start on the Progesterone. THANK YOU again.

Comments for How I discovered the wrong level!

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Jan 27, 2011
reply to london
by: Anonymous

Hello, anxiety is horrable and i have had them on and off extreme sometimes!. I do both oral natural and the cream and use the cream everyday! Alot on the higher end to feel better, but you will feel crudy and first as you are getting that estrogen going, I still get tender breast almost all month but the anxiety is quite a bit better. You may have to work with the dose, Wray believes the cream is the best method and i do believe it helps me. I ran out and used others, not so good, in edition I saw the same cream somewhere else and it had different ingredients. Cutting out the parabens and eating clean (grass fed meat, organic etc all help as well). Since I started the progesterone I have lost 25 pounds over the past 4 months I swear by it and think I may have to raise my dose to get rid of the sore breast. I hope you feel better soon:). I feel for you as I know exactly how you feel.

Jan 27, 2011
Progesterone
by: Anonymous

From everything I've read on this site, it sounds like the cream is better than the pills. But maybe Wray will comment about that.

I also had oestergen dominance which presented itself with very bad anxiety symptoms. I was using about 200 mg of cream a day for about three months. The gynecologist told me to stop the cream temporarily because he wanted to do some bloodwork. I did and about 9 days later I had anxiety like nothing Ive ever experienced. It took a full month before it quieted down but it did quiet down.

If you havent already bought the cream, it is well worth it. I keep a tube in my pocketbook so I have it with me at all times. If I feel some anxiety coming on, I rub a little on me and it helps greatly. It is a godsend to have especially during perimenopause which is what I am.

Best wishes!!

Feb 02, 2011
How I discovered the wrong level!
by: Wray

Hi Zoe It doesn't surprise me the CBT didn't help you. Most of our problems are brushed off as 'all in our minds' or psychosomatic, nothing could be further from the truth. Please see our page on Anxiety which explains panic attacks etc, and what to do about them. As for saying high oestrogen can be helped with antidepressants, I've never heard of anything so daft. The only safe way to reduce levels is with progesterone. You're now in Peri-menopause, which is a difficult time for most of us, it was for me. I think hellish would be a better description! Unfortunately oral progesterone is not the best Delivery system. Most is destroyed in the gut and liver, leaving you enough to merely stimulate the oestrogen receptors and make you feel worse. I recommend 100-200mg/day, dependant on symptoms, but in a form which is absorbed well, ie injections, suppositories or a cream. But please make sure you use enough. We do have a page on Nutrition and Diet, which gives three options by experts. All are good, it really depends on your own preference. Take care Wray

Feb 03, 2011
reply to london
by: Wray

Hi there I'm so pleased progesterone has helped you, particularly with the weight loss. So many women use too little and wonder why they put on weight. Small amounts only stimulate oestrogen, which in turn stimulates fat cells to divide and multiply. These are also a non-ovarian source of oestrogen, so a vicious cycle starts. It's essential to make progesterone the dominant hormone. We do have a page on Anxiety, please read through it as it explains why it occurs, and what to do about it. And please consider using more to help your breasts, in fact rub some cream on them. Take care Wray

Feb 03, 2011
Progesterone
by: Wray

Hi there Yes I do believe the cream is the better route, oral progesterone is mostly destroyed in the gut and liver. This also puts a strain on the liver which has to metabolise it. We do have a page on Delivery systems, there are many. The other two options are injections, which by all accounts are painful, I've not tried them. And suppositories which I have tried, but these are limited in their use! I'm pleased you are using 200mg/day, but to make you go cold turkey off progesterone, what an ignorant thing to do! To suddenly stop any nutrient, or drug for that matter, is not advised. It's always gentler on the body to do it slowly, over a few weeks if need be. I always carry some with me too, if not for me, for someone else. For instance I was out one day with friends, and one of the men had a bad headache. I gave him some to rub on his neck and under his ears, and within minutes the headache had gone. You might like to read our page on Peri-menopause if you haven't already done so. Take care Wray

Feb 03, 2011
Anxiety Attacks
by: Karen

I wrote the comment above but forgot to mention that I also got anxiety attacks. I was using Wray's cream successfully and I saw and alternative health gyn who told me to stop the cream so he could get a baseline estrogen and progesterone level. Well, my anxiety got so bad. I had shortness of breath and even had to go to the emergency room because I was short of breath and having bad palpitations and could sleep. I called my family doctor first and went over everything I had done differently. He told me it was from stopping the progesterone cream and that the gyn should never have told me that. I was only off the cream 9 days but it has taken more than a month to get my system calm again but it has.

What I do is rub 1/2 tsp on three times a day. At night I even apply more if I feel the shortness of breath coming on. It works.

It was a rough month and a half from stopping my cream for 10 days (yes only 10 days) but I am back to myself without the anxiety. If you stick with her cream and rub in on 2 or 3 times a day depending on what Wray says is right for you, you will get better. Just give it time. You will get there!!

Feb 10, 2011
Progesterone Amount
by: Anonymous

Wray,
Can you clarify? I am using close to 200 mg Progesterone cream and used it last month through my period but want to see if I can stop it during my period and start it up again on day 6 which would be the right day given the number of days of my cycle. If I'm using that high of a dose, can I just stop it when I get my period and start it up on day 6 and not suffer the anxiety attacks I got before when I stopped it for the 9-10 days (per my doctor's orders)? Or since I am using such a high dose do I need to wean off it for the 6 days?

If I try to stop it and get anxiety could this mean I just need to go a few more months straight through and then could retry stopping for the 6 days again down the line? Or does it mean my body just needs me to use it every day?

Feb 19, 2011
Anxiety Attacks
by: Wray

Hi Karen Bless you for your support, I see you comment on a few pages. I really appreciate your feedback, but often don't make my own comment as yours are so good. I'll be asking you for help soon, as I currently have about 100 queries still to do! What a wonderful doctor you have too, I do wish there were more like him! Stopping progesterone suddenly causes oestrogen to rise again. Hence your palpitations and shortness of breath etc. Oestrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here and here. You are also using the progesterone as it's meant to be used, as and when needed! It should never be used as you would a drug, with a set 'daily dose'. So many factors cause progesterone levels to drop, stress being the major cause. Take care Wray

Feb 19, 2011
Progesterone Amount
by: Wray

Hi there Karen? I think it's too soon after your disastrous attempt at coming off it. What I do suggest is reducing the amount you are using very slightly. If you don't get anxiety, reduce it again. You'll soon know whether you've reduced too quickly or too much. This will also give you an indication of whether you should continue using it daily for a few more cycles. Once you feel stable you could try stopping it. But as you are in Peri-menopause what are your cycles like? Are they very regular, irregular, or has the high amount of progesterone stopped them? If irregular, it will be impossible to follow them, in which case using it daily is the best option. Some women like having a break, but often symptoms come back, they do with me. And that's after using it daily for 15 years. Take care Wray

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