Hormone Horror - Doctors Didn't Get It Right

by Holly
(Atlanta, GA, USA)

Dear Wray,

Thank you Wray for all you do. I have now scoured your website and know why my hormone therapy did not work. But I still am requesting your opinion as to what to do next as I'm unsure at this point. (My two questions are at bottom of story.)
My Story: About 10 months ago I tried over the counter progesterone cream for the first time (about 44 mgs/day, highest dose on container instructions) and don’t remember how long it took but eventually began feeling calm, peaceful and happy. My symptoms of joint pain, back pain, insomnia, extreme fatigue, crying easily, overheating of body, oversensitivity to noise, foods, chemicals and severe brain fog all disappeared . I had my life back and I was thrilled. I remember sharing with others that I felt like I was living on valium 24/7. After 3 weeks I stopped the cream per container instructions to rest my receptors and symptoms were back the next day so I called the company and they suggested I get right back on it. I did, at same dosage, but never felt good again. All my symptoms were back. I kept on at that dosage until a GYN could see me because I was afraid if I stopped I’d feel even worse. The GYN said it stopped working because I wasn’t taking estrogen to balance it out. They put me on a prescription estrogen, testosterone and bioidentical progesterone cream. At 6 weeks My symptoms persisted so they gave me an estrogen/testosterone shot and nightly progesterone pill. All my symptoms disappeared. (Thanks to you Wray, I now know this was due to a progesterone surge initially triggered by the estrogen they gave me.) My husband and I went on holiday that week. He said I had fun and told him all my symptoms were gone. He had to tell me this because I have no memory of that week, not spotty memory but no memory - and all my symptoms returned before we got home, exacerbated. I decided to see a doctor who specialized in hormones, I wanted an expert to help me (and paid dearly as he did not take insurance). He took blood and said I needed estrogen. I trusted him and was put on an estrogen patch and nightly progestin. I felt worse and worse. I started experiencing continuous spotting vaginally even though I hadn’t had a period nor spotting in over 8 years (I'm 59). I experienced cramps, my uterus began vibrating and after 6 weeks had a full period. I told him I didn’t feel right about this and wanted to stop, he said to make sure I weened off everything, and I did. Luckily my ultrasound papp smear showed normal. My total hormone therapy was about 6 months. I’ve been off all hormone therapy for three months now but am still dealing with the original symptoms with an additional histamine intolerance diagnosed by my family doctor that the hormone imbalance probably triggered. After reading extensively on hormones, the human body and all related issues I came across Wray’s website and read everything there. Suddenly the reasons for what happened to me made sense. I decided to start progesterone cream and up the dose ‘til it worked. After all, originally it worked wonderfully.
I ordered a reputable progesterone cream, 10%, 125 mgs per ¼ teaspoon (Natpro was temporarily out of stock and I wanted to get back on the cream as soon as possible so ordered another reputable cream). Following Wray's advice, since I had so many symptoms I began with 400 mgs/day and experienced estrogen dominance surge like Wray talks about. It was so bad I upped to 1000 mgs after day 7 and am on that now at day 14. I am still experiencing estrogen dominance surge
My Two Questions For Wray:
(1) Now that you know my story, please give me your opinion as to the correct dose I should take at this time? Should I drop down to 500 mgs and give it 6 months if necessary? Stay at 1000? Up it more? Is there a mg limit to probably not go higher than? ALSO
(2) I prefer to stay positive but in an effort to ask all my questions here…Do I stay on whatever dosage you suggest for a full 6 months even if I do not notice any improvement during that time?
Thank you so much for your answers Wray, after my hormone horror I just want to make sure I don't harm myself more.
(P.S. Once I get symptom relief your FAQs are clear and I know what to do then.)

Bless you Wray for all you do. Sincerely, Holly

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Oct 13, 2015
Just myv2cents
by: Susan Jo

Hi Holly

Im just wanted to say that Wray seen my progesterone/estrogen results and told me it was the lowest ratio she has seen.. well so far can't afford progesterone cream at this time well the amount I know will help (but will be ordering 3 bottles soon) now im so afraid to use progesterone because I know I need a whole hell of a lot..so I decided to do what Wray suggested with extra things...im taking vitamin d which helps progesterone ..I personally added powdered vit c 1000mgs - 2000 a day this I find helps alot (I read it suppose to increase progesterone and for detox..I use a supplement called gentle cleanse ( helps gut and liver) ...I also take extra 400 mgs of mag..and a degrading probiotic that for does effect histamine reaction...and a multi...im going to eventually add b complex. .and maybe extra b6 (another progesterone increaser from what I have read just goolgle natural ways to increase progesterone but I personally stay away from most herbs). .plus I do use progesterone cream too but not as much as I can afford at this moment. ..boy can't wait to get more so I can up it..now I have been doing the vitamins slowly because I personally feel they all increase progesterone.. by the 4/5day I became aggressive with vitamin d, I know it is helping because at first it made me nauseaous and very sleepy like knocked me out.. so far feeling better each day with slight ups and downs...oh I personally needed to up my water intake. .
Cleansing vitamin ingredients for 2 pills but I only take 1 until im feeling up to upping. so what I list below will be for 2 pills:

Fish oil. 1073mg
Triphala. 600mg
Milk thistle 200mg
Artichoke. 100mg
Dandelion. 100mg
Marshmallow. 80mg
Ginger extract. 20mg
Bioperin complex 12mg

There may be more that increase progesterone but I so far personally stick with the ones that are safe to increase...for example zinc suppose to but I am sticking with what is in my multi and food because I personally think no at this time because I read it could raise testosterone which I also read that cod liver oil does too so I stay away from that too and I stay away from codliver oil because it has A also dont want over do that either. Also for some reason Salmon oil messed me up (I think salmom oil has a different omega ratio or kind).

So there is my 2 cents and Wray or anyone else correct me if im wrong on any of my info.

Can't wait for more progesterone cream. PROGESTERONE ROCKS!!!!!

Thank you and God Bless .
be patient and hang in there.
Susan Jo

Oct 14, 2015
Fix a typo
by: Susan Jo

Hi Holly

I wrote I take a degrading probiotic, what I ment to say it doesn't effect histamine effects. I can't eat yogurt because I get wicked allergic reaction. So far the strains I picked don't bother me in with histamine effects.

Thank you
Susan Jo

Oct 15, 2015
Thank You Susan Jo
by: Holly

Thank you Susan Jo for sharing such valuable information. It is so helpful and I appreciate it greatly! I too have to consider finances at this time. I prefer to buy Natpro as it's organic and I want to support a company that does so much for women but for while I'm on such large daily doses I'm using Ona's Natural 10% Progesterone Cream, $30 for 2 oz. cream. contains 125 mgs progesterone per 1/4 t. The 2 oz. jar totals 5,680 mgs. progesterone. When I'm stable on a lower dose I'm switching to Natpro organic. The sharing and sisterhood on this website is invaluable. Thank you again for contacting me! It's so helpful to know what's working for other women. Sincerely, Holly

Oct 18, 2015
Wow thank you
by: Susan Jo

Hi Holly

I checked that brand out and I Thank you soooooo much. Im going to order the one for 55 dollars. This is soooo awesome I can feel more at ease to using progesterone for the fear of not being able to afford it to control the symptoms. Im sorry to Wray but once I reach a good level I will order Natpro too. It would be great to have that percentage with Natpro. I Thank you again, you don't know how thrilled I am to get such a dose for my budget. Im trying to find work with these symptoms it worries me how long I will last before I become almost nonfunctional. I had to apply for food stamps and cash assistance so I can manage healthier meals and get supplements I need to reverse my p/e ratio to get my life back. I thank God for giving me the knowledge and wisdom to lead me to this site, to you for a more potent product, for my man who is trying to understand and extremely patient and extremely supportive.

Thank you all.
Susan Jo

Oct 25, 2015
Your Welcome Susan Jo!
by: Holly

Hi, Susan Jo, You're welcome! Thank you so much for letting me know you can now get progesterone. As I was in your situation that makes me very happy. I did not want to put another name brand on this site but decided as you weren't able to afford NatPro right now anyway Wray would agree that you're health is more important. Wray is a Goddess in my view. As Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves Wray has freed women! Like you this website is a haven for me in world that doesn't often make sense. Since we've been sharing I'll tell you I'm taking 4000 mgs of the progesterone daily. Ok, close your mouth. I can't find anywhere on the site that someone else has done this but since I've been nonfunctional for 4 years I went for it! I began with 400 and as the estrogen surge hit I kept upping and upping. Maybe only so much progesterone can be absorbed at a time & I'm wasting the cream but I was freaking out with symptoms and said what the heck. It's been 4 weeks for me now on progesterone. After 3 weeks my anxiety, anger and irritability calmed down and I feel good enough to be able to wait out how ever long it takes to be symptom free - which might be another 5 months. As soon as it feels right I'll go ahead and start lowering the dose gradually. I am so glad we're sharing. Thank you so much for writing. I've added some of the supplements you suggested (the have to's) and will wait before adding more. As a separate issue I woke up this morning with a urinary tract infection. It was caused by the cream but has nothing to do with the progesterone or Ona's cream. Any hand/body lotion that gets 'down there' will do this to me. I had forgotten and didn't take precautions like washing my hands after applying the cream (I didn't want to waste any!), switching from baths to showers etc. For me taking antibiotics is a last resort so I tried 2-3 drops of Thieves Essential Oil in 1 teaspoon honey (got it off the Internet). Within 1/2 hour the stinging 'down there' was gone. The Internet info I read said to repeat every several hours so I'll do that. If you're interested I'll let you know the end result as to whether it knocked out the infection. Everything I read said it only takes one day but I'll give it several. If you have a sensitive system like mine you may want to take precautions too. Please keep me posted on your progress - what's working for you and not! Holly

Oct 30, 2015
Misophonia, Hyperacusis, Tinnitus...
by: Holly

Hi Susan Jo, Your quite welcome! I wrote you over a week ago but it didn't get posted. I must have done something wrong. Anyway, please keep me posted on what's working and not working for you. I'm on week 5 of progesterone. I've also added 1/2 teaspoon sea salt daily with lots of spring water, am on a low carb/high fat diet, taking D3, magnesium and vitamin c (lots). I quit gluten except for 1-2 slices sprouted grain toast a day if I want. I've also taken responsibility to reducing all stress from my life. I've learned to love myself enough to let go of people in my life that dishonor and disrespect me. As everything was already in motion except the progesterone I can definitely say it's the progesterone that has helped the below symptoms so far: (This is after just under 5 weeks of progesterone)

Estrogen surge: over & am on my way to happiness!

Weight gain: that had come on quickly is now lost and am back to my happy weight.

Hyperacusis: completely gone.

Photosensitivity: completely gone.

Smell sensitivity: mostly gone.

Histamine intolerance: mostly gone. This had just started after the doctors further messed up an already imbalanced hormonal system so I only experienced it for several months but it was severe and at one point could only find a couple foods I was safe on.

Aggression: noticeably less (I'm able to meditate again and feel my inner light - big smile!). I'm calmer, more patient and more pleasant to be around!

Severe fatigue: improved greatly - now cleaning my house again, going for walks in nature and joined a yoga class.

Tinnitus: still here but am calmer about experiencing it.

Misophonia: still here but more patient about it - triggers don't hit so hard. This is a rare disease so doctors and pharma won't look into it - no money to be gained. I was awarded disability benefits about 3 years ago based on tinnitus and misophonia. The misophonia began in puberty. I'm 59 and it has ruled my life, where I can go, who I can be around, no movie theaters or restaurants etc. I've looked at this from every angle and just realized in puberty is when hormones kick in big time and is when the misophonia began and when it begins for everyone who has it! I'm reading a lot about progesterone therapy and it seems likely it will help with this. We'll see.

Initially when the estrogen surge hit and the already horrible symptoms doubled I kept upping the dosage like Wray said. I got up to 4000 mgs (just for 2 days) and am now on the reducing side, down to about 2000 mg progesterone a day now. The fact that my body is taking this much in, feeling great with no euphoria or lethargy shows how deficient I was - probably life long. I sense I'll keep decreasing from here. I'm careful to only add hourly to accurately gauge what my body needs.

Please continue to share with me your progress. It's so helpful! Sincerely, Holly

Nov 02, 2015
Small update
by: Susan Jo

Hi Holly

All I can say is thank God for Wray and you for posting that cream, maybe Wray will make one in an extra strength. I do plan on buying Natpro. Is Natpro an oil? If so I would prefer that. Anyway as of your dose if I'm not mistaken Wray went that high of a dose and maybe still close to it. Now as of now I'm not taking any supplements but progesterone which is working pretty dam good :). Any time I add supplements mainly vitamin d and magnesium I feel way worse not sure why. I have a post questioning those 2 and fish oil and another one can't remember. I think IMO they increases testosterone and decreases SHGB and I know my testosterone is high especially androgens. As for diet IMO I just try and keep it mostly processed free not totally but also keep all in moderation even some processed food. Im experimenting with trying to eat and not be to strict because I find that I end up eating worse, I get OCD then forgetaboutit. Lol, so I keep it simple. Example Saturday for breakfast I had bacon, eggs, oatmeal with brown sugar and honey, orange juice. So what im saying I eat as much of regular food even if it maybe processed to some degree. I just eat instead of stressing over it then makes me more stressed then I already am. I am going to start some supplements today again but only some, b vitamins, vitamin c, bee pollen for now. Multivitamins make me tired as well as the others I listed above ( vit d/mag/fish). I may take a multivitamin today and see how I feel. B vitamins do make feel weird too but not as bad as the above. I found out that b vitamins are depleted alot and fast, so I feel a must. But as for now eating whatever in moderation and progesterone cream I am doing pretty good.

I had to look up the one problem you have, don't remember how to spell it, the one that your sensitive to sounds, smell etc... I do experience that and it was more so the past year. I know with myself that progesterone cream has changed that so be patient I believe it will go away that is definitely oestrogen dominance.

I will keep you posted and you do the same.

Thank you and God bless
Susan Jo

Nov 02, 2015
Natpro's a cream
by: Holly

Hi Susan Jo, Just a quick note, Natpro's a cream, not an oil. I tried the oil one that goes under the tongue - I did not like it at all. The taste was horrible and felt slimey in the mouth. I'm down to 750 mgs progesterone a day now and feel great. I sense I'll continue the decrease in progesterone mgs but like Wray says I'll let my symptoms be my guide. I'll keep you posted further down the line. God Bless You Too, Holly

Nov 03, 2015
Small update
by: Joy

Hi Susan Jo and Holly

Thank you for your kind words. As the website states, Natpro is a cream and as far as I know, Wray will not be introducing a cream with a higher concentration, nor will a bigger size tube be introduced. Perhaps in the future, but I have not been informed of this.

It is very rare that vitamin D3 and magnesium make one feel ill. When are you taking it and what magnesium are you taking? It should be a combination of oral and transdermal. There are a number of magnesium types available and if the incorrect one is take it can cause an upset. Are you well hydrated when taking magnesium? These could possibly be the reason why it's not agreeing with you. Vitamin D3 is needed and is vital as a deficiency will reduce the benefits of progesterone not to mention many of our modern day illness are due to a vitamin D3 deficiency. Magnesium is an important co-factor and must be taken. You might consider taking between 2000-4000mg Inositol for your OCD, great results have been achieved by taking it. It is sometimes classed as one of the B vitamins, it can be helpful in depression as it raises serotonin levels and helps stabilise blood sugar. It is often called the anti-alopecia vitamin as it helps reverse hair loss.

Regarding sensitivity to smell and sound, perhaps this page of Wray’s will help you.

Hope this has helped a little.

Nov 05, 2015
Thank You Joy!
by: Holly

Thank you so much Joy for the info and leads to new links. I've read them an have decided to add some supplements like inositol. Thank you again for taking the time to share! Holly

Dec 02, 2015
by: Holly

Hi Susan Jo,

I started taking SAMe and had fast success. Nothing has helped my particular symptoms so fast and so well. As I don't know your conditions, symptoms etc. this could be more harmful than helpful for you but I wanted to suggest you read up on it if it resonates with you. I'm an undermethylated person and that could be why its working so fast and well. As horrible as dis-ease is I must admit it's fasinating navigating this journey to wellness, kinda like flying an airplane without a license without a map on a cloudy day but knowing there's a fabulous island nearby and I Will Get There.

Blessing, Holly

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