Frances

by Frances
(USA)

Dear Wray,

Thank you for your wonderful website! I'm learning a lot and I really appreciate your knowledge.

I recently found out that I suffer from estrogen dominance and last January I also learned that I have a 3.9 inch ovarian cyst. I am 58 and postmenopausal. I have vaginal bleeding periodically from too much estrogen.

I am also taking Progesta-care 480 mg/ounce once a day.

Will the Progestacare stop the bleeding eventually?

I seem to bleed after I eat certain foods such as oranges and Turkey burgers.

I haven't been eating much fruit because of the bleeding and I want to continue eating it. Do you think the bleeding is related to certain foods that I am eating now that I'm estrogen dominant?

I have only been taking the Progestacare for about 2 weeks and I'm very frustrated that I still have my terrible synmptoms. Will the Progestacare eventually shrink my cyst (maybe after 2-3 months?)

I want to get rid of this problem naturally. What would you recommend I do?

Thank you!

Frances

Comments for Frances

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Mar 22, 2012
anyone?
by: Anonymous

I am a 41 year old who is without a thyroid (was surgically removed) and about Christmas time, I started getting panic attacks once in a while. I brushed them off until one of them took me to emergency. (Thankfully, it was just a panic attack but the worst yet unfortunately) I suspected adrenal problems so I got a saliva test done and I was found to have high cortisol at waking up and also before going to bed (my other readings were normal) I was also found to have very low progesterone (23 pg/ml 75-270 Premenopausal (Luteal)) So I got online and found this site and ordered the creams (actually even before I got the test results, I just had a feeling...) My question is... I got my period today but just last night, I had another panic attack and gladly it went away, though when it happens it doesn't feel like a passing thing! :S

Anyway, I've never used birth control pills ( I used to get depa provera injections ages ago) so I'm not very good with knowing when I ovulate or whether my period is these many days cycle or worse yet, when I'm ovulating. What I can tell you is that my period is pretty irregular, though it had started to get more regular since I've gone low carbing for weight loss and to reverse my insulin resistance. I can also tell you that my last period was two months ago and my latest one started today. My question is. Should i still be dosing with the cream since I'm pretty irregular and still have symptoms? Or should I stop now that I'm bleeding and wait until I'm ovulating, which I will have to find out when that is b/c I have no idea.

Any help would be really appreciated!

*Desperate in PR

Mar 23, 2012
Anonymous = Ivonne
by: Ivonne

I'm sorry I posted here, but I tried to make my own page and had trouble with it. It kept giving me errors. Anyway Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


Mar 24, 2012
Frances
by: Wray

Hi Frances Thanks for the kind words about the site! It is evident you have too much oestrogen, the cyst and bleeding are a result of it. I must confess to never having heard of certain foods causing bleeding, but I learn something new every day. You don't say how much progesterone you're using, and it should be used twice a day minimum. I'm guessing you're using about 20-40mg/day, I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. Unfortunately it takes far longer than 2 weeks for progesterone to rectify any adverse symptoms. It depends how severe they are, how long they've been experienced and how much excess oestrogen is present. If mild they can go in about a month, if bad it can take 6 months or more. This also depends on how much progesterone is used. For instance 400mg/day generally prevents any Oestrogen Dominance occurring, plus hastens healing. It also ensures progesterone becomes dominant quickly. The cysts do take time to go, in some cases up to a year. The bleeding, as it's not heavy, should be sorted out much sooner. But you will need far more than 20-40mg/day once a day. I suggest you try 200mg/day. You will probably experience a heavier bleed when you do, it's nothing to worry about as the uterus is clearing all the old lining out. We do have more info on our Menstruation page. Please read the oestrogen dominance page as this can occur when increasing the amount. You might like to read our page on Menopause too. Take care Wray

Mar 24, 2012
anyone?
by: Wray

Hi Ivonne It doesn't matter where you post your comment. Cortisol should be high in the morning, I take it it was higher than normal. In which case you could take magnesium and zinc, both these lower levels, see here and here. The irregular cycles make it difficult to follow, so I wouldn't bother and just use it daily. You are also either in or about to go into Peri-menopause. This page explains how to use progesterone. Alternatively you can try to make your cycle regular by using progesterone, there's more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Your last panic attack occurred just as you had started bleeding, have you noticed a pattern in your previous attacks. Ie have they usually occurred then, or sometime during the luteal phase. Oestrogen also rises during this phase, and if an anovulatory cycle is experienced, ie no progesterone is made, the ratio of the two hormones becomes skewed. Anovulation begins round about age 35, and increases in frequency during peri-menopause, but stops at menopause when we stop making viable eggs. A defective luteal phase can occur too, when little progesterone is made, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Continued below.

Mar 24, 2012
anyone?
by: Wray

Hi Ivonne It's the excess oestrogen to progesterone ratio which causes all our problems. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe, it's trial and error finding the right amount. I feel you will need more the few days prior to bleeding to prevent further panic attacks. We have more info on these on our Anxiety page. Insulin Resistance can upset the cycle, I'm pleased you've found it becoming more regular on the low carb food. You might be interested in our Nutrition page. There's a link to Dr Cordain's site the Paleo Diet which is an excellent diet to follow. Take care Wray

Mar 24, 2012
Thank you!
by: Ivonne

Thanks for your prompt answer Wray! I really appreciate your help here. I've been dosing according to how I've been feeling. This is such a heavy period this round that I've been having incredible pain and headaches. Just three periods ago I was having pain free normal to light bleeding so this is literally knocking me down. I've also been pretty bad with measuring the dosing. Should I be measuring with a teaspoon? I also use a bit of adrena calm K-16 to help me when I get heart palpitations ouf of nowhere. Here's my supplement list:

AM before breakfast: 100mg Phosphorylated Serine (PS)( to lower AM cortisol) and my first dose of armour

After BF: 10,000 IU Vitamin D, 400IU Vit. E, Vitamin B Complex, Fish Oil, iron, vitamin c, selenium

PM: Magnesium zinc and calcium supplement and 5HTP to help me lower high PM cortisol.

Is there anything you think I should be taking that is not on the list, or is that too much?

Btw, I did look into the paleo way of eating when I was researching what would be best for me but found it a bit restrictive for my taste, I tend to do much better when I don't have so many dietary restrictions or restrictions in any aspect in life I guess... lol Low carbing has worked for me though thankfully, I've lost fifty something pounds so far and have not been miserable like I've been in the past on low fat, high carb diets. Other than this hormonal/adrenal inbalance (which is what has me on hold on being able to raise my armour) I've been much better though still having some lingering hypo symptoms so I'm anxious to get this balanced to be able to do that. It's also making doing exercise hard which I know will help me with weight loss even more.

Again thanks so much for your great advice and for having such a great resource available to everyone. Blessings to you for that. ;)

Mar 24, 2012
Frances
by: Frances

Dear Wray,

Thank you for your answer to my question, I APPRECIATE your detailed and thoughtful reply!

A few more questions: I have been using one pumpful of the Progestacare (20mg/ounce) in the evenings, because when I first used it in the morning it made me sleepy.

Do you think if I increase the dosage as you suggest to 100/200mg/ounce per day I should divide the dosage in half (once in the morning and once in the evening)?

Also, if I increase the dosage to 100 mg/ounce that would equal 5 pumps of the cream, should I apply all 5 pumps for example to both my left wrist and right wrist in equal amounts?

Will the larger amount of cream make me feel sleepy in the morning?

I was advised by someone else initially to use one pumpful. I agree with you that it isn't enough and was wondering could such a small amount- 20mg/ounce once a day work to get rid of the cyst problem, but only slower than the way you suggest or is it completely USELESS for me to use such a small amount of cream?

One more question: I forgot to mention in my original COMMENT that I also was found to have thickening of the uterine lining as well as the large ovarian cyst.

Do you believe that 100/200 mg/ounce of Progestacare will also help to alleviate that problem as well? I know that the cyst and uterine thickening/bleeding are related problems.

Thank you very much!

Frances

Mar 25, 2012
My apologies Frances
by: Ivonne

I apologize for hijacking your thread Frances! Thank you for being such a good sport. I hope you feel better soon! :)

Mar 27, 2012
Thank you!
by: Wray

Hi Ivonne I didn't realise you had such heavy bleeding and pain, or is it only now? I think I've got a bit out of sync with what you told me. Did the heavy period occur after you started the progesterone? If so this makes sense. We do have a page on Menstruation which explains why we bleed. Heavy bleeding and pain need about 400mg/day to resolve it. Initially it does help to measure with a spoon, kitchen measuring sets come in ml and teaspoons. 5ml equals 1 teaspoon. Interesting you have heart palpitations, this occurs if not enough progesterone is used and it's stimulating oestrogen. Oestrogen causes prolongation of the QT interval, which results in palpitations, arrhythmia and Torsades de Pointes. Whereas progesterone shortens the QT interval, see here, here, here, here, here and here. Your supps are all good, although I would avoid the calcium. You're taking an excellent amount of vitamin D and that draws calcium from the gut. Unless you feel you don't get enough from food. Magnesium is the most important co-factor for vitamin D, the best form is magnesium chloride, see here. Glad you've already looked into the Paleo Diet, low carbs are the best diet, whichever you follow. To me it's not so much a diet but a way of eating. Low fat is dangerous. I would hope that once your vitamin D and progesterone levels get higher, you should start feeling better. Don't forget to have a vitamin D test in about 3 months, 10,000iu's per day should increase it substantially, then you can reduce to 5000iu'd per day. Take care Wray

Mar 27, 2012
Frances
by: Wray

Hi Frances I don't believe the 20mg/day is anywhere near enough. Plus it should always be used a minimum of twice a day, levels beginning dropping after about 13 hrs. 5 pumps of the cream will give you 100mg/day, but with cysts, plus the odd bleeding, plus the thickened lining, I don't think this will be enough either. The bleeding is coming from the thickened lining. If you increase substantially, to say 200mg/day and then stop after 14 days, you should bleed. It could be very heavy, with clots and brown blood. This indicates the lining is coming away, a good sign. After that you shouldn't have any more bleeding. Morning sleepiness is a transitory thing, it will pass once progesterone becomes dominant. If you do bleed, once it's stopped you can continue on the progesterone, finding the level which suits best by trail and error. Most women seem to settle somewhere between 100-200mg/day. Take care Wray

Mar 27, 2012
last night was really awful
by: Ivonne

Thanks so much for answering so quickly Wray. It just so happens that last night I had one of the worse nights yet in terms of heart palps. I bought some taurine yesterday and they were only 500mg but since I'm cautious with taking new supplements I only took one. I ended up taking another one later and two klonopin .5mg (I really didn't want to take that but I was that desperate I could not get to sleep or relax!) I also took some magnesium/zinc/calcium (that was before I read your reply!) and then when I took my blood pressure it was a tad high so I took a pill my doctor gave me for when my bp went up. It felt like my body was at the gym and my mind was trying to sleep. Just worse. Then I applied more cream and was finally able to fall asleep around 5:30AM :-/ Something I suspect is that I tried to raise my Armour thyroid dose yesterday to three grains from 2 1/2 grains and maybe that gave me the heart palps? It's so hard to differentiate symptoms when you have so many that overlap! So my questions to you are: How much taurine should I take? Those 500mg tabs are huge and hard to swallow but I would swallow as many as it took to feel better. I'm desperate! :S Also, do you think I should stop the adaptogens I'm taking since the zinc and progesterone cream help me with my high cortisone issues? Thank you again for your help it means a lot!

Mar 29, 2012
last night was really awful
by: Wray

Hi Ivonne Sorry to hear about your bad night. The palps were caused by progesterone stimulating the oestrogen. It seems you didn't get a chance to read those papers I gave you on the QT interval. To prevent them occurring you need to make progesterone dominant immediately. You'd need about 400mg/day or more to do this. Please try to get the taurine in powder to form, I can't abide tabs so I put the powder into juice. I take about 2000mg/day. Adaptogens are good, I don't think they would affect things adversely, usually they're a great help when stressed. Please don't play around with altering your Armour dose, you would have no idea if it's exacerbating the problem. Please increase the progesterone. Take care Wray

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