Desperate

by Lauren
(USA)

Do you know how long it will be until you have the cream in stock? I have been using Dr. Eckhart's oil for two months with no sign of change and he has recommended that I try a different cream as he believes his formulation may not be absorbing into my skin.

I have been experiencing serious depression and am so anxious to try your cream. I put my name on the list to be notified when it is in stock but I was just wondering if it was going to be a matter of days or weeks or months. I need to make another plan if it's going to be a long time. I have read about the other supplements you recommend. I have taken some of these supplements before with no relief. I have taken oral progesterone before and have found relief from my depression (except for the weight gain) but no longer have a prescription for that. I could get another prescription for the oral natural progesterone but I don't know what dose to try to get since you recommend such a high dose to counteract the weight gain. Dr. Eckhart says that oral doses need to be 10 times higher than the dose of a cream.

Do you have any recommendations for what I can do in the meantime? My dad is a doctor and would probably give me a prescription. I just don't know what to ask for. Or is there another cream I could use in the meantime. I am 31 years old by the way and have changed almost all of my products according to Dr. Eckhart's recommendations. I'm dying to be on the road to recovery, I'm just really not functioning right now and am overcome with hopelessness. Please help.

note from webmaster: Lauren, the Natpro fulfillment house inform me that orders will begin shipping again Monday. They apologize for the delay caused by an unexpected run on stocks

Comments for Desperate

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Oct 01, 2011
Desperate
by:

You can get a prescription from you doctor for a compounded form of progesterone. It is natural and it is micronized so that your system can utilize it. That is very important. The pharmacy has to be a compounding pharmacy as they make it there. If you don't have one, there is a pharmacy in Arizona, called Women's international pharmacy who could make it for you. Your doctor will need to call them. They have a website. Also, I have used and still do use a less potent form of natural micronized progesterone cream from Let's Talk Health. See online website. Their formula works as it has dmso in it which allows the formula to penetrate thru the skin to the blood stream. You might need to use more though as it is a very mild form compared to what you can get from the pharmacy. I use 100mg of natural micronized progesterone cream daily.

Oct 02, 2011
Another supplement to try
by: Rosanne

Just a quick note. For estrogen dominance use a supplement product with DIM in it in addition to progesterone. I have never used a supplement that relieved symptoms so quickly. Take 4 per day and in about three days you will see a difference if estrogen dominance is the culprit. Also check thyroid as estrogen dominance blocks thyroid and lack of thyroid leads to low progesterone levels. It become a vicious cycle. Do not get tsh get free t3 and free t4 tests done. Free t3 should be a top of the range and free t4 in mid range. Hope this helps. I have been playing around with progesterone dosages, and supplements for over a year now. I think I have hit the right balance now.


Oct 05, 2011
Desperate
by: Wray

Hi Lauren I'm so sorry you've experienced this problem. We do try to keep up with demand, but sometimes find it very difficult. We make the cream monthly, although it does have a natural preservative and antioxidant, we want to ensure that it will always be fresh. Oral progesterone is not the best Delivery system, as most gets destroyed by the gut and liver. We do know from Saliva Tests we run that the progesterone in our cream is absorbed very well. The tests are run by a naturopath in the UK who's prescribed our cream for 15 years now. There are only two creams I would recommend, as they contain no toxic chemicals, see here and here. Bear in mind they are both half the strength of our cream, about 16mg progesterone per ml of cream. You say you've tried the supplements I recommend on our Natural Antidepressants page. Please be aware they can take time, in some cases up to 6 months, and often the dose has to be high. And in the case of tryptophan, it needs to be taken at night, away from any food and with a small amount of carb to get it into the brain, otherwise I've found it rarely works. Please have a vitamin D test done, a lack of this causes depression, see here and
here. A lack also reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more info on testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. This is an excellent video to watch too, see here. I've run out of space so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray

Oct 05, 2011
Desperate
by: Wray

Hi Lauren Although I recommend 100-200mg/day progesterone, I feel you might need more, judging by your depression. You might like to read these comments from users of high amounts, see here, here, here and here. Take care Wray

Oct 05, 2011
Another supplement to try
by: Wray

Hi Rosanne Thanks for the tip about DIM, I keep forgetting to tell people about it. Must remember. I also suggest calcium D-glucarate too, as that prevents an enzyme in the intestine called beta-glucuronidase from breaking down the oestrogen/glucuronide bond, thereby allowing oestrogen to be re-absorbed, see here and here Incidentally this enzyme is produced by undesirable gut bacteria, supplementing with probiotics suppresses the bacteria, and subsequently the beta-glucuronidase. Take care Wray

Oct 10, 2011
Thankful with a few more questions
by: Lauren

Thanks for all the comments. It's great to feel like there's support out there. I have ordered the DIM as suggested and also vitamin D3 5000ius though I haven't been tested yet. I have also increased my usage of the cream to 4 tsp a day. That is until today when I sat down and worked out how much that would cost per month. I had planned on using the progesterone every day regardless of cycle because I felt with my symptoms that I just needed to start feeling consistently healthy. But if I took 600mg per day I think it would cost me like $250.00 a month. I can't afford that. I decided that the most I can afford is $70.00 a month for three tubes, so my question is do you recommend that I divide that up so that it lasts me the whole month and take it daily? Or is there a reason that it would be better to only use the cream after ovulation and divide it up that way? Is less cream needed per day if you use it daily or does it not make any difference? I do want to get pregnant soon but not until I'm emotionally healthy. I have three children that were easily conceived but I have not been able to conceive in about a year. (I'm 31 years old.) My plan was to use progesterone for two months, build up my levels, feel better, and then start using only after ovulation and hopefully have better luck conceiving. I took progesterone orally for almost a year before I realized that it had made me gain ten pounds (I now understand estrogen dominance) and my doctor had failed to mention that I couldn't take it every day if I was trying to get pregnant. (So I have been trying to get pregnant for 2 years including the year I was taking progesterone all month long.) But I felt absolutely fabulous when I was taking it. My feelings of well being were just wonderful. Do you think my previous use of oral progesterone is a predictor for how my experience will be this time around now that I have eliminated estrogen from my products and am taking a much higher dose in a more effective way? Please know your advise is much appreciated, it feels like the lifeline I've been praying for.

Oct 11, 2011
Oh ya
by: Lauren

Oh ya and one more thing. On the bottle of the DIM it says something about supplying good estrogen and getting rid of bad estrogen. I didn't know there was good and bad. I thought it was just the amount of estrogen that needed to be balanced. I'm a little wary of taking a pill that says it's going to give me estrogen when I've spent all this time and money eliminating estrogen completely from my life. Are you familiar with Dr. Eckhart's protocol? Do you agree with his theories about eliminating all estrogens even things like aloe and rosemary? He believes that estrogen dominance can be completely overcome simply by eliminating all sources. Your site doesn't go into very much detail about which products to use and which to not use, so I was just wondering if you had a different take on the issue that I should know about. I'm also taking iodoral for thyroid. I just wanted to mention that to you in case you would offer different advise. Thanks!

Oct 13, 2011
Thankful with a few more questions
by: Wray

Hi Lauren I would definitely recommend using the progesterone daily, during your period too, for about 2-3 months. Certainly until you feel stable. This should suppress any excess oestrogen you might have. It does turn out quite expensive, but you should be able to reduce the progesterone once stable. I then suggest you start following your cycle, we have more info on how to do this on our page How to use progesterone cream. 3 tubes per month would work out at about 200mg/day progesterone, which I'm sure would be enough. It's easy to increase it if you feel any Oestrogen Dominance symptoms. Progesterone should be used as and when needed, and not as a daily fixed amount. It's entirely dependant on symptoms, not on age, weight or size, unless a baby. Some women use it hourly for severe symptoms. It's impossible to eliminate all phytoestrogens from our diet. All grains, legumes, nuts, and more contain them. The grains are the worst as people tend to eat so much of them. We use so little herbs, they are not such a problem. You might like to see our page on Nutrition. There's a link to Dr Cordain's site and on it you'll see his comments about grains and legumes, and how we shouldn't be eating them at all. It's a pity the bottle of DIM puts it like that. It doesn't actually get rid of any oestrogen, only calcium D-gluarate does that. Oestrogen is metabolised in the liver by glucuronic acid, the process is known as glucuronidation. The process also removes other substances, including toxins, drugs, bilirubin, androgens, mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids. It's then excreted in the bile, but an enzyme in the intestine called beta-glucuronidase breaks the oestrogen/glucuronide bond, which allows oestrogen to be reabsorbed. Calcium D-glucarate inhibits beta-glucuronidase, see here and here. Incidentally this enzyme is produced by undesirable gut bacteria, supplementing with probiotics suppresses the bacteria, and subsequently the beta-glucuronidase. I've run out of space so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray

Oct 13, 2011
Thankful with a few more questions
by: Wray

Hi Lauren Oestrogen is metabolised or broken down into 2 principle metabolites, 2-hydroxyestrone (2-OHE1) and 16-alpha hydroxyestrone (16alpha-OHE1). 16alpha-OHE1 is regarded as a potent oestrogen, whereas 2-OHE1 is a weak oestrogen. DIM increases levels of 2-OHE1, by doing so it also increases the ratio of 2-OHE1:16alpha-OHE1. This increased ratio is associated with a lower risk for breast cancer, see here. Other studies have found a protective role too. Any natural substance which reduces the potency of oestrogen is to my mind worth taking. Iodine is a good choice, there is an increasing deficiency in people now, see here and here. But an excess is equally as as bad. An easy way to find out if the level is too low or high is to get a tincture of iodine. Put 3 drops anywhere on the inner arm, rubbing them in with the dropper. If the patch fades in a few hours it means there's a deficiency. Continue applying it until the patch takes days to fade. Alternatively have a blood test. I'm delighted you're getting the vitamin D, but please have a test done. If very low you would need more than the 5000iu's/day. I wasn't aware you wanted to fall pregnant again, as we do have a page on Pregnancy. Vitamin D is essential for ovulation, a successful pregnancy and for the growth of the child, see here, here, here, here and here. These are excellent videos to watch too, see here and here. Another essential nutrient to take is taurine, see here, here and here. Take care Wray

Nov 11, 2011
not desperate anymore, just lazy
by: Lauren

I have been using the cream for 25 days straight through my period about a teaspoon a day. I feel like my deep depression has lifted to the point that I don't want to die, which is good! But I now have this constant feeling of laziness and lack of motivation. I have three kids and this makes functioning really difficult. I don't understand why this is so difficult because I used to take oral progesterone and armour thyroid and I felt amazing. The best I've felt in my whole life. The only reason I stopped taking it is because I gained 10 pounds taking it. Estrogen dominance, I know now. But I thought that using this cream would give me all of the benefits of the oral prog. minus the weight gain. I've been using the vitamin D, DIM, and calcium D stuff you recommended. I wasn't taking any supplements when I had success with the oral progesterone and it worked so well. Do you have any idea why I would not be getting the same results now, only a year later. (I am 32.) I thought it might be because I was no longer taking thyroid medication so I started that again. I used to be such a busy running around hardworking person that exercised like a crazy person, and now I force myself to get on the treadmill and give up after ten minutes. I'm so relieved to not be in a dark abyss, but I'm craving a sense of well being and to feel like myself. I was doing a google search and found a couple of things that suggested that low testosterone could cause this. when I went to a bioidentical hormone doctor 2 years ago he said that I had low testosterone. I know that you don't recommend testosterone for women, but I don't know why. I also read something about high prolactin levels causing lack of motivation and infertility (I have both). It has been 2 1/2 years since I finished nursing my last child and I can still express a little drop of milk. Do you know anything about that? Does that sound normal? Also, I was thinking that it would be so great if this site had a search feature so that people could search all of these great comments for key words that would direct them to the comments that apply to them. It's encouraging to hear other people's experiences that are like mine, especially when they have found success, but I just don't have time to read through every single comment to find the relevant ones. Anyway, love this site and am grateful for you! Thanks!

Nov 16, 2011
not desperate anymore, just lazy
by: Wray

Hi Lauren I'm delighted you feel your deep depression has lifted. Mine did too and the feeling of wanting to die. The lack of motivation etc is an oestrogen dominance symptom, this will pass. The higher amount of progesterone you're getting from the cream has again activated the oestrogen. You've only been using the cream for 25 days, too little time for the progesterone to become dominant. I'm pleased you're trying the DIM and Ca D-glucarate, plus taking the vitamin D, these will also take time to kick in. You might be interested to learn that the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. As for the testosterone, you are right, I don't recommend it at all for women, see here, here, here, here, here here, here, here, here and here. High prolactin can cause problems. Oestrogen increases mitotic and secretory activity of several cells in the pituitary, but particularly the proliferation of prolactin cells. If progesterone is high enough it suppresses prolactin, this is why pregnant women don't produce milk. I've run out of space so will start a new comment below. Take care Wray

Nov 16, 2011
not desperate anymore, just lazy
by: Wray

Hi Lauren It's only after birth when progesterone levels drop, that prolactin rises. It's often regarded as the hormone of lactogenesis, ie causes milk to be produced, but does have inflammatory properties too, see here, here, here, here, here,
here, here here and here. A lack of protein, in particular the amino acid tyrosine, slows down the production of dopamine. Tyrosine is the precursor to dopamine, see here. Dopamine also drops with stress, principally because tyrosine is also the precursor to the two stress hormones adrenaline and noradrenaline. Normal dopamine levels suppress prolactin, if dopamine drops due to a lack of tyrosine or stress (which drops progesterone levels), prolactin rises. The progesterone should work to reduce the prolactin, but you might consider taking tyrosine too for a month or so. There's info on how to take it on our Anxiety page. Finally we do have a search facility, but it's at the very bottom of each page. The web site was originally done in 1998, hence the small screen size, computers where much smaller in those days! We've been so busy since then, we've had no chance to re-format it, but it's going through a major overhaul now. The search facility will be somewhere near the top right of every page, plus the bottom too. Thanks so much for the kind words about the site! Take care Wray

Feb 20, 2012
sudden rapid weight gain
by: Anonymous

I have felt such a relief of my depression and irritability symptoms. I am so grateful. This has changed my life. I am really confused and scared right now because I just discovered that I have been gaining a pound a day for four days. My weight never fluctuates. I weigh myself first thing in the morning without clothing. I had a bad experience with the oral progesterone I took two years ago. Felt great, but gained ten pounds over a year. When I stopped the progesterone I never lost a pound of that weight. I was unhappy with my weight to begin with as I could not lose my pregnancy weight. I had always been able to before, so the search for that answer is what got me involved with hormones and thyroid. I was 150lbs then and unhappy. The oral progesterone took me up to 163 and my weight still would never budge with or without prog and thy. I have been using Natpro for about three or four months and haven't gained weight. I have been using 1/2 tsp per day and was so glad to finally have the answer to my mood issues without horrible side effects. I had also come to accept my new weight and saw no hope for change in that department. I recently raised my dose to 1 tsp per day because I was experiencing an increased amount of stress. I have not changed anything with my diet or activity. I am rapidly gaining weight. One week ago I weighed a steady 163 and now I'm at 167. Today I started using 2 tsp, but I am worried. If I had ever been able to lose the weight I gained from progesterone I wouldn't be so worried, but I haven't lost a pound in four years since my third child. Every pound I gain is permanent. I have done intense workout programs, cut all sugar out of my diet. My weight does not budge. I am so afraid that if my weight continues to go up I will never get it back down again. I know you have worked with so many women. Have you actually seen women gain weight from estrogen dominance and successfully lose it? It doesn't comfort me very much when I read accounts of women who are still battling estrogen dominance after a year. I would never normally consider using weight loss pills, but in this situation I have thought of it. I am constantly gaining weight in no relation to my health habits and never able to lose any! I can't live without the progesterone, but I can't live with it if it makes me bigger than I already am! If I increase my dose, will it get worse before it gets better? Isn't there a way to stop it all together? I just need reassurance. I have read comments from people asking you about this, and read your replies, but I have not found a success story where someone gained from the progesterone initially and then successfully returned to normal weight. I need to know that it's not just a theory, but that it actually does happen. Thank you!

Feb 22, 2012
sudden rapid weight gain
by: Wray

Hi Lauren (I hope it is you!). I'm so delighted it's helped you. I know at one point you were asking about using 200mg/day or 6ml of cream. Then in another you said you were using 5ml or 1tsp per day, and now I see you are using only 1/2tsp. The immediate weight gain is caused by water retention. The increase in progesterone is stimulating oestrogen once again, and it's this which causes the weight gain. Progesterone is such an excellent diuretic that it's now given via IV transfusion to Traumatic Brain Injury victims to reduce the oedema that forms. Please don't panic. Using the 2tsp will give you 330mg/day progesterone which should suppress any excess oestrogen. Women do loose the weight gained, see here, here and here. This is a very long page, but if you put 'Jenine' into 'control/find' you'll see the reference. But it's not just a progesterone/oestrogen problem. It could be due to Insulin Resistance or a lack of vitamin D. I did ask you to have a test done, have you? I know you are taking it, but it's best to have a test to see if levels are high enough. A lack of vitamin not only reduces the benefits of progesterone, but causes weight gain too, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. And please consider following Dr Cordain's Paleo diet, the link is on our Nutrition page. It's not just about avoiding sugar, all grains and legumes should be avoided too. In fact all sweet starchy foods, including any fruits or veggies which fall into this category, no matter how 'good' they are for us. Take care Wray


Feb 23, 2012
the long wait for progesterone dominance
by: Lauren

Hi Wray, thanks for writing back! Yes it is still me. The reason I reduced the amount of progesterone I was using over time was because the lower amount felt so much better. I know that is because of estrogen dominance, but it feels so impossible to wait out something like that. People write in saying it can take a year to overcome estrogen dominance. This is my life! A year of depression and irritability would not only be miserable for me, but also for my entire family! I could get a divorce over this. I don't have a year to wait. It just seems like a catch 22. Either use a high dose, feel awful, turn into the wicked witch of the west and ruin my life and everyone else's. Or, use a lower dose, feel and act like myself, be the wonderful, loving mother that I want to be, but never want to leave the house because my body is unceasingly inflating. And that causes pain in a whole different way. I wish that I could temporarily use an antidepressant or weight loss pill, that would get me through the waiting period, but I've never taken a pill that didn't cause horrible side effects. Since I have increased to 2 tsp, I have been short-tempered and disorganized. I had gained 7 lbs of water weight. I have been taking 10,000 ius vitamin D, calcium glucarate, and DIM. I have lost 4 of the seven pounds. I am relieved, but when I see my sweet nine year old run into her room crying because I've yelled at her about something trivial, I can't bear to be like this, even for one day. The mood problems are the most unbearable. Losing hair, breaking out, and gaining weight is embarrassing, but shouting makes me feel like a bad person, not just a sick person. What would happen if I really increased my dosage? If I started using 4tsp again, would I overcome this craziness faster? Or would I just become more of a monster? If it was going to be short term, I would swing for 20 bottles of Natpro. It doesn't seem realistic to spend that much every month indefinitely. How long does it take to become progesterone dominant? It feels like it will never happen. I haven't gotten tested for vitamin D. I didn't understand the links you sent me. I was confused about how to get tested.

Feb 23, 2012
pelvic pain
by: Lauren

This is kind of off topic, but I also have a fertility question. I haven't been able to focus on fertility because I haven't been able to go half the month without the progesterone yet. But I thought I would mention that since I have been using 2 tsp of Natpro I have had some tenderness in my pelvic area, I'm guessing around where my uterus is, just on the right side. Also, every time I've had my period for years, I have this strange feeling of intense pressure, as if I'm delivering a baby, but I'm sewn shut. It makes it so that I can't stand up for very long the first two days of my period. I don't know if that is a sign of some kind of problem. So when I started having tenderness in the area of my uterus, I wondered if it could be a sign of ovarian problems or something. Thanks Wray! I complain a lot, but I really am so grateful. I haven't worked out all of the kinks but at least I have hope! I didn't before, thank you!

Feb 25, 2012
the long wait for progesterone dominance
by: Wray

Hi Lauren This is the hardest part of what I do, trying to keep people going through the bad parts! And I know how you feel about yelling at your daughter, I used to do that to mine too. Dr Dalton, who would use 800-2400mg/day for her patients with severe symptoms, never once mentioned Oestrogen Dominance. She wrote about every hormonal balance we can suffer from, but not that. Presumably because it never occurred to her patients, as they were all on such high amounts. And the TBI patients I mentioned to you, are given over 1200mg/day. I hesitate to ask you to use more, because of cost and because I sound like a nut case! You have been using about 80mg/day of progesterone for about 3 months, then had a stressful patch so used more. If I'm correct it's only since increasing it that you've gained weight, as you say "I have been using Natpro for about three or four months and haven't gained weight. I have been using 1/2 tsp per day…". Has the stress passed? And have you tried decreasing to the 1/2tsp again? You said you felt well on that, maybe you could try this. If it doesn't work the only alternative is going really high, ie 400mg/day, I've found this usually works. I don't think you would need the 4tsp or 666mg/day. 400mg/day requires 6 tubes of cream per month if used daily, this works out at $105 per month, exc postage if buying the 20 tube pack. As you've had the intense pressure for years I don't think it's a new problem arising from the higher progesterone. I think it's again the same old story, oestrogen being stimulated, the uterus is very sensitive to it. And have you tried the tyrosine yet? You said you had high prolactin, this is an inflammatory hormone. Tyrosine is needed for any stressful situation, cold, fatigue, emotional trauma, prolonged work, sleep deprivation, it improves memory, cognition and physical performance, and is used for weight loss treatments. Your dopamine level would have dropped again due to the stress you've just been through, prolactin could have risen. Please consider it if you haven't tried it. Let me know what you decide. Take care Wray

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