CONFUSED AND NEED ADVISE

by Halle
(Canada)

I am 55 years old and have the following symptoms....joint aches/pains, hot flashes,night sweats,foggy thinking,irritability, lethargy-to name a few. I recently found an MD dealing in Bioidentical hormone therapy. My initial blood work, taken 2 months ago showed
Vitamin D at 69 nmol/l
Testosterone at 0.8 nmol/l (free testosterone at 0.4 pmol/l
Progesterone at 1 nmol/l
Estradiol-17 beta at <70 pmol/l
Estrone at 140 pmol/l

This new Dr prescribed
progesterone cream 5% ..1.0ml(4clicks) at bedtime for 3weeks on and 1week off
testosterone .5% ....5ml daily for 6 days/week
Bi-Est 30/70 (E2/E3) 1.25 mg/ml.....1.0ml( 4clicks) daily 6 days /week
Vit D 5000 iu along with K2 150 mcg
Omega 3 capsx3 per day

It has now been 7weeks and I just had another blood test which showed
Testosterone at 13.8 nmol/l(free testosterone at 14.5 pmol/l
Progesterone at 2 nmol/l
Estradiol -17 beta at 92 pmol/l

I go back to see him in 2 weeks...I am just so confused at all these numbers As for my symptoms, I can say I only have 1-2 hot flashes per day now and no night sweats but I still feel lethargic and foggy thinking and irritable and pain in joints remain. . from what I've been reading online--I worked out that my first blood test shows a P:E ratio of 18:1 and the second blood test now shows a P:E ratio of 25:1 ??
Did I figure that out properly?? if I did..don't I need to be a lot more Progesterone??? what about the quantity of Estrogen ?? and what about that high Testosterone level???
Could somebody please advise me on what I should be doing...when I first started applying these creams, I seem to start to feel better, but now not so sure other than hot flashes improving.I just know what/who to believe as there are so many conflicting recommendations.
I really enjoy reading the other stories here and hope I can find some answers to help me.
I thank you in advance,
Halle


Comments for CONFUSED AND NEED ADVISE

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Oct 27, 2014
CONFUSED AND NEED ADVISE
by: Wray

Hi Halle You might have picked up from the pages here that I'm not in favour of additional testosterone or oestrogen. And you are only getting 50mg/day progesterone, so it doesn't surprise me your testosterone and oestrogen have risen. 50mg/day will not counteract these two hormones, and will probably be converted into them. This is an excellent chart by Genova Diagnostics which shows the steroid pathway. Your first ratio was 14:1 and the second ratio is 21:1, both very low. From Saliva Tests we run we've found it's best if the ratio is 600:1 and over, although some women find they can do with a lower ratio. You might like to see our pages on How to use Progesterone Cream, Hot Flushes, Peri-menopause, Menopause and HRT. Your vitamin D is very low, not surprising as you live in Canada. A lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone, see our page on Vitamin D. For more info on vitamin D levels, test kits etc see the following websites, Vitamin D Council, and GrassrootsHealth. Blood levels should be 175-250nmol/L, and not the 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Oct 27, 2014
Thank you !!!
by: Halle

Thank you so much Wray. I could almost cry and I am feeling such relief already that I am finally getting some clear direction!! It seemed to me that I do not need to take Bi-est or Testosterone but was afraid to stop since it's what the Dr. recommended..I will stop those two and increase the Progesterone on my own. The cream is 5% so how much do you think I need to be using every day and should I only do it for 3 weeks and off for 1?
Thank you again for giving me and a lot of women hope!
Halle

Oct 28, 2014
Thank you !!!
by: Wray

Hi Halle All your questions are answered in the pages I gave you. The amount to use too, this of course varies with symptoms and the severity of them. I take it you are in Menopause? Even if you are still in Peri-menopause and have erratic cycles, I would always suggest using the progesterone daily with no break. Take care Wray

Oct 30, 2014
re Progesterone effects so quickly!
by: Halle from Canada

Hello Wray and thank you so much for your reply. I have not had a cycle for about 7 years. I have now increased the Progesterone to approx. 250mg/day and stopped the Testosterone and Bi-Est..it's only been a few days and I am feeling relief already! Yesterday was my first day in YEARS without a hot flush!!!!I find it makes me sleepy, however, so only take approx. 75 mg in the am and the remainder once I get home from work and throughout the evening. I have had so much pain in my joints for many years, especially knees. ..so bad, I could hardly go up and down stairs..I noticed yesterday, I was going down a huge flight of stairs at work without hanging on to the railing and no pain...It is AMAZING!!!!!!I have even been seeing a specialist, annually,the past few years for possible knee replacement but not any more!!!! I am understanding women really need to research a lot on their own. It's too bad MD's prescribe things that are not the best. We think, or at least I USED TO, if a Dr. says it's what I need, who am I to argue..It's sad so many women are suffering needlessly!!! I am spreading the word regarding your website and thank you, thank you, thank you.

Nov 01, 2014
re Progesterone effects so quickly!
by: Wray

Hi Halle I'm so thankful you have found relief at last. I can't believe you might have had a knee op, what an appalling thought! It is early days yet, so you might have a set back or two, please don't be alarmed by this, it's just the body adjusting to the removal of the testosterone and oestrogen. Progesterone is an anti-inflammatory, so try rubbing the cream on your knees or anywhere else that's sore. I've found it works quicker if rubbed on the immediate area. Thanks so much for spreading the word. Please don't forget to have a vitamin D test done. Take care Wray

Nov 05, 2014
looking for more help please:)
by: Halle in Canada

Hi Wray: I just came from my Dr who told me the P:E ratio should be 12:1...OMG!!! I'm glad I've studied all I have on my own and know that is wrong. 600:1 !!!! He asked I up the Progesterone cream to 200 mg /day and do it slowly as to not cause side effects...what is your opinion on the "slowly" part of that. I know I am in need of more than just 200 mg/day. AS well, he asked I start taking some "herbal" pills for adrenal fatigue...do you think my symptoms mimic adrenal fatigue?? I'm thinking if I increase the progesterone, I will be good...now I'm afraid to increase it too quickly..He said anymore than 200 mg per day is too much "you will feel horrible "
Thank you in advance!
Halle

Nov 05, 2014
forgot to mention
by: Halle

Hi Wray..forgot to mention breast tenderness and foggy thinking and NO libido and low energy are my main symptoms..night sweats and hot flushes almost totally disappeared on 250 mg / day but think I still need to increase??
Halle

Dec 05, 2014
saliva testing vs serum testing? please confirm
by: Halle

I am now on 400 mg progesterone cream daily and feeling pretty good (only minimal hot flushes every day) but confused regarding info online on the best way to determine progesterone levels --serum or saliva...I've read "Transdermal progesterone does raise serum progesterone levels in a statistically significant manner, but the magnitude of change is quite small,which can lead to excessive dosing of progesterone as practitioners strive to achieve therapeutic levels."
Can someone clear this up for me as my Dr. is only going by serum testing.
Thank you!
Halle

Dec 13, 2014
saliva testing vs serum testing? please confirm
by: Wray

Hi Halle Thanks for all the feedback. We do have a page on Breast Tenderness and another on Libido. The serum and saliva tests both have their merits. I think the best explanation is one written by Dr Zava, he runs ZRT Labs. Take care Wray

Feb 09, 2015
progesterone dominant?
by: Halle

Hi..I just had a blood test and it shows...
estradiol -17 Beta <70 pmol/l
Estrone 107 pmol/l
Testosterone 0.4 nmol/l
Free Testosterone <0.3 pmol/l
Progesterone 15 nmol/l

I am taking 400 mg progesterone/day..nothing else..now after my Dr reading these results, I've been told I am progesterone dominant and should start Biest and Testosterone and drop down to 200 mg progesterone/day.
Talk about confused!!! I no longer have hot flashes and night sweats..my biggest complaint is zero libido and low energy.
Can someone please help me?
Thank you,
Halle

Feb 15, 2015
progesterone dominant?
by: Wray

Hi Halle I don't know why you're confused, your P:E2 ratio is only 214:1. I gave you the page on saliva tests, and what we've found the ratio should be. Pity you're listening to your doctor, he's obviously worrying you needlessly. Why not just go by your symptoms, you're feeling much better, trust your body. I also gave you that page on libido, maybe you could read it again. It does come right but does take time. Take care Wray

Feb 17, 2015
You're right !
by: Halle

Thank you for your response, Wray. You must get frustrated with taking the time and advising people like myself and then they hesitate doing what you recommend!!! When a Dr. looked at my progesterone level and said you have way too much progesterone, I panicked for no reason. Since it has been 5-6 months that I started Progesterone and my libido is still zero..I thought he may be right. BUT...you are right, I am feeling the best I have in years so why change what I'm doing. Since I last emailed you I went ahead with what he'd asked me to do and started the Biest he recommended and within 4-5 days, I became bloated and feeling crappy so I stopped and blamed only myself for not doing what you recommended !!! ( I have only been on 400mg for about 8 weeks ) I have learned my lesson and want to thank you for your patience with people like me :)
Halle

Feb 24, 2015
You're right !
by: Wray

Hi Halle Thanks for the kind words! But I am pleased you followed his advise, you now have a bench mark to work from. Don't forget Vitamin D! Please have a test done, a lack of this reduces the benefits of progesterone, so you could be using far more than needed. Vitamin D is cheaper than progesterone. Take care Wray

Apr 24, 2015
I'm in trouble
by: Halle

I assume a lot of ladies in Ontario,Canada read this site and I really need help. I was doing so well on Progesterone cream for the past 8 months and now the physician prescribing it where I live in London Ontario no longer will prescribe it to anyone(gone into medicinal marijuana instead)
I am hoping a reader can advise me on a physician in London that can help me. To have a prescription, it was covered under my benefits from work. I am desperate though and am thinking of ordering it online..I am wondering if any of you in Ontario order from this site or is it even possible to ship this product to Ontario? IF you do ship to ontario, Canada I am wonder how long it takes to arrive? I was on 300 mg a day and I'd never felt more alive in the past 20 years!!! I am almost out of my current cream and, like I say, desperate. I have been decreasing it, in increments since I knew I was going to be out and slowly am feeling like the old-crabby-achy-sad self again...can someone help me and give me hope?????
I thank you in advance
Halle

Apr 30, 2015
I'm in trouble
by: Wray

Hi Halle I know of no doctor in London, Ontario who could help you, but yes you can order from us and we do ship to many women in Canada. I'm all for medicinal marijuana, but what a pity he's stopped prescribing progesterone. Our fulfilment house is in Michigan, so not far from you. It should take no more than 5 days, but there's no telling what the postal service will do. I do agree with you about coming alive, that was how I described by own recovery. So if you do want to order the Natpro please click on this link. We have tried to keep the cream as natural and simple as possible. One thing I'd ask you to do is read our page on Oestrogen Dominance before starting the cream. I've found even if a person is using progesterone, the different brands vary in how well they are absorbed. We do know from Saliva Tests that the Natpro is absorbed well. Take care Wray

Jun 01, 2015
Confused and need advise
by: Joy

Hi Halle I asked Joy to contact you, please see her reply below...

Hi Halle

I have just sent you an email regarding Natpro. If you do not receive it, please check your spam folder.

Many thanks.

Jan 17, 2016
Libido (or lack thereof)
by: Halle

Hi Wray and Joy: Firstly,thank you both for what you do and "Natpro" I just wanted to update my "situation" and get some advise again please. I have been using Natpro for 6-7 mths -using ,initially, 500 mg/day to get symptoms to stop and now,for past month,gradually cutting back to my current 350mg/day and no symptoms have returned ,thankfully(i am cutting back due to cost mostly)- I took your advise re KETO diet,as well,for the past 7 weeks and am amazed how my carb cravings have disappeared(really rough "keto flu" initially though!) anyway--to my question---I still exist with ZERO Libido...i read on sites where tesposterone cream has helped women but i know your thoughts on using that so I dont try it---any other suggestions to get my libido back? --I am writing now since I feel with my change in diet and using Natpro for over 6 months-I was hoping to see some glimpse of libido but nothing :(...maybe I need to be more patient?
thank you again,both,for improving my life so much with your advise!
Halle

Jan 18, 2016
Libido (or lack thereof)
by: Joy

Hi Halle

It is only a pleasure. Pleased to hear that no symptoms have returned. Diet is so very important, you did yourself a huge favour by following the KETO diet. Carbs are a major cause for so many of our symptoms today. Love your "Keto Flu", many suffer and I am not surprised.

Have you read the LIBIDO page, if not please do. You might like to consider taking the amino acid Tyrosine as mentioned on the page, it certainly helped me!! Wray and I have spent many a day laughing at my stories because of it. Also have you had your thyroid checked, I do know that this also affects one’s libido. Try inserting NATPRO in your vagina at night, it seems to ‘stimulate’ things. Let us know how you get on. :)

Keep going.

Feb 02, 2016
question re keto
by: Halle

I am on the keto diet and all soreness in joints has disappeared! wonderful! I have a question however since I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly. On the website you recommended re "the basic ketogenic diet" it states "The diet below is simply for rapid and effective weight loss and uses a 1 to 1 fat to protein ratio rather than the 4 to 1 fat to combined protein and carbs ratio of the Ketogenic Diet pioneered by Johns Hopkins used to treat epilepsy."My question is--to follow the 1:1 ratio which I think seems easier than 4:1----it would be 1 gram of fat for every 1 gram of carb plus 1 gram of protein??? or is it 1 gram fat for every .5 gram carb plus .5 gram of protein? I'm confused.
Thank you!

Feb 03, 2016
Question re Keto
by: Joy

Hi Halle

I think perhaps you may have misunderstood the diet a little. 1:1 does not mean 1 gram of fat for every 1 gram of carb plus 1 gram of protein. It means you should be eating 1 portion of fat to every 1 portion of protein and carb combined, i.e. 100g fat to every 100mg protein and carb. This would also depend on how well you cope with carbs, it is best to eat very little of these so the combined 100mg could read 30mg carbs and 70mg protein. Or it could be 40mg carbs and 60mg protein, but please avoid eating high carbs. Whatever you are doing appears to be working, so I feel you shoud continue with it. Hopefully the high fat will help you with this, but I can't be certain. Also how long have you been doing the keto diet, if a short period, then you need to be patient as all these things take time.

Hope this helps.

Feb 04, 2016
Keto is amazing! Thank you for recommending it!
by: Halle

Thank you Joy for clarifying that!
The biggest benefit from Keto for me is no more carb cravings. In my "pre-keto days" I would almost kill for bread/muffins/chocolate but that has disappeared!!! I can taste food /appreciate food now!!! A close second in the benefits of Keto is the inflammation/stiffness/soreness in joints has disappeared! I used to have to hold railings going down stairs but can now run down without support! As well-my energy level is amazing and I sleep really well (I am sure Natpro has helped with all this too!)
I so appreciate your prompt reply...There sure are a lot of naysayers online that say Keto will cause serious problems but just have to focus on what it's doing for me. I am very sensitive to carbs so know to keep those really low.
Thanks again for all you do to help women like myself..You and Wray have changed my life :)
Halle

Feb 06, 2016
Keto is amazing! Thank you for recommending it!
by: Joy

Hi Halle

Thank you for you kind words Halle and a big thank you for believing in us enough to try it! I too have Wray to thank, she also change my life! Isn't it amazing that when the Keto diet is followed correctly, it's a life changer. People underestimate the importance of diet. Natpro would surely have helped as progesterone is an amazing anti-inflammatory.

As for the naysayers, "one can please some of the people all of the time, one can please all of the people some of the time, but one can’t please all of the people all of the time".

Take care.

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