Confused and desperate

by Lindsay
(UK)

Hi Wray, I have contacted you on a few occasions and sure you can track my history. I recently added a post with my recent troubles entitled 'period delay & swelling' which is yet to be replied to. However, things are getting worse for me and I don't know what to do for the best and was hoping you could advise.

I increased the Natpro cream last month to 2.5 then 3 tspns per day. I realise this is a lot but it seemed to eradicate my symptoms, my anxiety reduced and I was sleeping better than ever, maybe a little too sleepy. When I stopped the cream for my period I had the worse pmt ever (described in my previous post) and it took 7 days for my period to arrive which only lasted 2 days. I've had migraines and constant headaches, now my anxiety has returned and my sleep is poor which I'm really struggling with.

When I was using less cream I felt better in the first half of the month, although while taking the cream I suffered slight estrogen dominance symptoms.

Am I using too much cream? Should I stop using the cream altogether? I do not want a repeat of this last couple of weeks at period time. I am tempted to use the cream continuously but am afraid of never being able to come off it and my body not being able to produce its own progesterone. I am wanting another baby asap really and want to keep my cycles if I can.

Help!

Comments for Confused and desperate

Click here to add your own comments

Jun 01, 2011
dosage
by: Annette

My suggestion would be to use the cream straight through for a few cycles until you become more level. I have had to use the cream straight through and I have had to take anywhere from 600-900 milligrams. I have been getting my period regular on those amounts. If you feel good at that amount then stay on that until you become symptom free then try to cycle it. I would wait until you are level and you can cycle it to try to have a baby. You will have a wonderful pregnancy once you are level and not estrogen dominant. You can miss your period and not get it also if you estrogen dominant. You will have let your body be the guide see if you get your period taking that amount. The key to it I think is when you have no symptoms for a whole cycle then you will know you are coming into balance. It is trial and error. Hope this assures you a little I was on birth control for many years so I have had a rough go and I only feel well at high amounts. It's also important to have liver support so it can expel all the excess estrogen. Dandelion capsules work wonderful for this and it detoxes your liver so it can work at optimal use.

Jun 01, 2011
Confused
by: Eve

My personal experience was I had to take it all month in order to combat the terrible PMDD/PMS symptoms. Once this was under control I was able to back off the dose. I was most concerned with stomping out the terrible symptoms and then finding my cycle at a later time. Keeping in mind that if you are taking a high dose all month long you may skip or delay your period. It's a bit of a catch 22. At least it was for me. I personally decided to keep a high dose and push through the estrogen dominance symptoms. If you read studies from Dr. Dalton they treated paitents with much higher doses than most of us on this site take (up to 2400mg by injection) and the only side effect I read about was drousiness. I am not sure what your dose has been, but to give you an idea I was dosing all month and sometimes as high as 600mg (during worst days). I think there is a spot on this site that has the some detailed dosing recommendations. Good Luck!

Jun 04, 2011
UK
by: Lindsay

Hi ladies, thanks so much for your experiences, it helps so much to hear I'm not on my own here. I am tempted to use the cream continuously after reading your advice. Should I start straight away or wait until I ovulate this month?

Also how do you think this affects your own natural production of progesterone?

Thanks again

Jun 08, 2011
Confused and desperate
by: Wray

Hi Lindsay I'm sorry about not answering your other query, I'm sure I will get to it. The advice given below by both Annette and Eve couldn't be better. They have both been through hectic times, far worse than I ever went through. Plus it was 15 years ago that I started using it, so I was on the low, low amount of 20-40mg/day. It took 6 months for me to come right. It was from this experience and that of others that I realised far more was needed to help. Please use it daily, ignore your cycle, get better first. It's easy enough to start the cycle going again if it's disrupted. Every time you ovulate you make progesterone. It's only if you don't ovulate that this doesn't occur. Very high amounts of supplemental progesterone will stop ovulation, it acts as a contraceptive, but with no adverse side effects. But once you lower the amount, your cycle will start up again. We do have a page on Pregnancy, please read through it, as it explains how ot use the progesterone. And as Annette says, please don't try to have a baby while you are going through this. It's essential to get better first. Please also have a vitamin D test done, a lack of this reduces the benefits of progesterone. Plus it's essential for a successful pregnancy and the growth of the foetus, see here, here, here, here and here. This is an excellent video to watch too, see here. For more info see the Vitamin D council and GrassrootsHealth websites. Please also considr taking taurine, this is also vital for the growth of the foetus, see here, here and here. Take care Wray

Jun 08, 2011
dosage and confused
by: Wray

Hi Annette and Eve Bless you for the support you gave Lindsay! Take care Wray

Jun 08, 2011
Lindsay
by: Eve

Thank you Wray for your kind remarks. I feel it is important to share my experience. I hope to help other ladies avoid some of the pain and suffering that I went through while sorting out all the different deficiencies I had munstered up over the years and the ailments that were a direct result. I went back through my records (after sending my message) there were several times I took my dose over 900 mg and a few times even a little higher - based on symptoms. Initially I tried working with my cycle and found times when it took me 5-7 days to start bleeding after I stopped the progesterone and while I was waiting for my period holy hell broke loose. That is why I made the decision to supplement all month long until I could get to a stable place. If you read Dr. Dalton's work she talks also about the first 3 or 4 days into your period (actual bleed) and that you can also experience severe symptoms. I also experienced that as well before I went to the continuous dosing. I feel it only right to tell others that included in my way back to health, I also started taking cell salts. I believe whole heartedly they were a very important role in allowing my body to better utilize the progesterone supplementation. It was after I started the cell salts that I was able to come off thyroid medication (using mag. phos. #8 - Hylands brand) completely and also reduce my progesterone intake. I now am following my cycle (this is the 2nd month)and so far it is good. I have not had any break through symptoms of estrogen dominance or lack of progesterone. I feel better than I have in several years. Also I have mentioned before, I also now use Nat Pro applying to my labia only. Best Wishes ~ Eve

Jun 09, 2011
Lindsay
by: Wray

Hi Eve It's so encouraging to others if we share experiences. We're all so different, there's no way of telling how any one of us will react to progesterone. Some have little to no oestrogen dominance, whereas you suffered for months. Unfortunately the web is littered with complaints about progesterone, as the users were evidently using far too low an amount. Thanks for the advice on the tissue salts too, I love to hear of successes with natural supplements. I'm so delighted you are able to reduce your progesterone now, and to follow your cycle again. Bless you Eve! Take care Wray

Jun 09, 2011
Eve
by: Lindsay

Eve, thanks so much for your comment. I feel relieved knowing you have been exactly where I am, i thought I was imagining the 'holy hell' phase when I stopped the progesterone for my period.

I will use continuously from my next ovulation for a couple of months or so and when I feel better I will try and reduce it gradually in order to start follow my cycle.

Can you tell me more about the salt supplements?
Thanks so much
Lindsay

Jun 09, 2011
thyroid
by: lindsay

I should also say I have recently had abnormal thyroid blood results, and wondered if the progesterone would help. Thanks for the hint eve

Jun 16, 2011
thyroid
by: Wray

Hi Lindsay I'm so pleased Eve's comment encouraged you, she has been through hell and back. Your thyroid problems make me suspect a vitamin D deficiency. It's more than likely as you live in the UK, where there's little sun to make any. I can't remember if I asked you to have a test done, but please consider it. I know Birmingham hospital has just started doing it, thank heavens. As it's been impossible for most people in the UK to get their doctors to take notice. They send a kit to you, see here, and it costs about £20. A lack of vitamin D impacts on the thyroid. Take care Wray

Jun 21, 2011
Vitamin D
by: Lindsay

Thanks Wray, I have checked the Birmingham website, they do offer tests. I have been taking a D3 supplement though, how long do they take effect?

I'm really not sure this is the problem as the thyroid issue is low tsh but F4 is normal so it maybe an auto immune problem which do cause similar symptoms. I am being referred so hopefully i can get to the bottom of it.

It does concern me though that the progesterone cream helps me so may mask the problem?

Jun 21, 2011
Confused and Desparate
by: Eve

Thanks Wray for your kind words :-) You and your website are a true blessing!!
Lindsay, I agree with Wray about the vit D. I take 5000 iu and I also take iodine/iodide as well. Iodine and vit D deficiencies are almost always seen with a person experiencing thyroid problems. Please know that you can not solely rely on just TSH and T4 levels to indicate your thyroid function as it will not give you the whole story. Request that your free and total T3, T4 are tested and also your RT3 (reverse T3). I found that progesterone did help my thyroid symptoms. As my progesterone dose increased, I felt my hypo symptoms decrease (note I also started taking Armour thyroid meds 2 months after starting progesterone). We know that excess estrogen interferes with normal thyroid function and being someone who has severe estrogen dominance symptoms it makes sense to also experience thyroid problems. I personally believe that the thyroid issues are merely a symptom and you can correct that as your body becomes more balanced. As for cell salts, the best reference book I have found is by David Card "Facial Diagnosis of Cell Salt Deficiency". I personally stumbled accross healing my thyroid condition by "accident" if you will. I started taking a product called "Nerve Tonic" by Hyland. It is a blend of 5 cell salts and within two weeks I started having overstimulation symptoms as I was taking thyroid medication (Armour). At the time I didn't put everything togehter, but the cell salts were healing a deficiency causing less need for medication. Another few weeks and the overstimulation was blaringly apparent - I tried reducing my dose of Armour, but the symptoms persisted. I had my blood run and it showed overstimulation of T3 - hence the racing heart and onset of insomnia. I finally stopped Armour Rx completely in Jan. 2011 as even a low dose was too much. After more research, I "think" the mag phos in the nerve tonic was the specific cell salt for thyroid, however, I continue to take the Nerve Tonic and Mag Phos amongst other cell salts. The Nerve Tonic will be a daily supplement for the rest of my life. I even use cell salts to treat my dogs with their ailments. They work great to stop colds from fully taking over the body. Cell salts are compounds of the 25 elements (elements/atoms found on the periodic table) found in our bodies. It is believed that the only way the body (as it is an amazing machine) to have illness or dis-ease is to have a cellular deficiency. The cell salts heal the cellular deficiency and thus the body can utilize progesterone better, Vit D better, etc. I believe until I started cell salts I was not receiving the full benefits of the supplements my body needed. Hope this helps - Wishing you all the best in your journey for balance ~ Eve

Jun 22, 2011
Question for Eve
by: Bonnie

Hi Eve,

Your experience was helpful. Like Lindsay, I think I will use the progesterone continuously for a few months as well. I'm only using about 150 ml a day and have been using it for almost two weeks. I think I'm losing less hair on my head than usual but my anxiety seems stronger, which I'm attributing to the estrogen dominance. Can you tell me how long you were on the progesterone cream continuously before you felt improvements and how much did you take? You mentioned that you only apply it to your labia now - how much do you use and do you apply it in your vagina as well? I find it a bit difficult to apply there but it seems like less is needed applying it in the labia/vagina instead of on the skin (from what I've read based on the experiences of others). And where can cell salts be purchased? Thanks.

Jun 24, 2011
Confused and Desperate
by: Eve

It took some toying around to get all the symptoms smashed out. I was a "feel" type of doser for lack of better terms. My story was after coming off BCP for 20 years (about six months after stopping) the estrogen dominance symptoms were at their peak. I probably had "annoying" symptoms all along that I just ignored or blew off, but by six months they were so bad I thought I was going to commit suicide.

Once I started progesterone, I had some relief immediately. I had to dose according to "feel" as my cycle was irradic and unpredictable. So for instance days 20-25 of my cycle seemed to be the most horrifying - that was the pattern I was able to find. I had to dose to whatever amount it took to keep me from wanting to end my life. It was very severe.

There were days I took the dose extremely high. Now bear in mind I was not applying to my labia at the time. I just started that recently. I also initially tried trouche and oral delivery. There were periods of time I was doing both trouche (prescribed by my doc) and NatPro cream. So to answer your question, some of my symptoms were improved very quickly, but the most severe took more time mainly because I didn't really know what to do. When my horrible symptoms started to get bad, first it would start with some "mild" anxiety and then it would elevate out of control. No matter how bad the elevation got, I was always able to "dose" it back down to a livable state and ususally I felt better within 30 minutes. So progesterone can act very quickly when you take a large dose. Once I got over the fear of taking too much, it became a means of survival until I was able to get things under control. The key was paying attention to the little signs that my progesterone was dipping too low. I got to where I was preventative instead of reactive. I hope this makes sense...it's hard to find the right words. At the time, I didn't have the support that you have through this website. I was on my own for the beginning of my trial and error. I hope that through those of us that have endured, you will find short cuts to your hormone balance. As for application, I apply directly to my labia. I have not personally inserted into the vagina, but I find the labia application is wonderful! Cell salts can be purchased online and some vitamin stores also carry them. I found that vitacost.com are very well priced. They are very inexpensive to begin with. I have only used the brand Hyland, but I know there are other brands out there. Hope this helps. Wishing you peace, health and happiness ~ Eve

Jun 26, 2011
Vitamin D
by: Wray

Hi Lindsay It depends on how low your vitamin D level was before you started taking it, and how much you're taking. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, but if the level is very low, I suggest taking 10 000iu's per day. If you're taking the standard 400-600iu's per day, nothing will happen, ie the amount is far too low to raise the level in the blood. This should be between 70 and 100ng/ml. Most labs and doctors use 30ng/ml as the cut off point, but this will only prevent rickets, not the other diseases we get. There is reason to believe all autoimmune diseases are caused by a lack of vitamin D, it's low in all of them. In fact it's low in all inflammatory disorders. I doubt your referral will know much about vitamin D. I'm so pleased the progesterone is at last helping you, you were so fearful about using it. And no it won't mask the problem, in fact progesterone assists the thyroid, as it suppresses oestrogen, which causes it to slow down. Plus oestrogen is an inflammatory hormone, and is high in most autoimmune disorders. Please read through those sites I gave you on vitamin D. I'm sure this is one of your main problems. It is in most people living in the UK. Take care Wray

Jun 26, 2011
Confused and Desparate
by: Wray

Hi Eve Amazing advise, yet again! And thank you too for your kind words! It really helps me so much hearing about other healing journeys. Your advice on the cell salts is so sound. Most of us are deficient in the healing nutrients, so vital for health. Our soils are now so depleted with the use of chemical fertilisers, not to mention the sprays used which disrupt hormones. Not only are oestrogen mimics found, but thyroid disruptors too. This is an excellent website to look for info, see Our Stolen Future. Please continue to help me! Take care Wray

Jul 26, 2011
Question for Eve
by: Bonnie

Hi Eve,

My anxiety got so bad that I decided to stop the Natpro. I tried increasing it to 400+ mg a day but it didn't make any difference. I don't know what to do. It just seemed like my anxiety got stronger each time I increased it. And I felt really drowsy. My period is due but I'm just getting brown spotting. I feel like I should stop to see if my period comes. When you used a large dose, did you use it all at once or use 100 mg at a time? It's discouraging and difficult to continue when it's making me feel this way.

Jul 26, 2011
Thyroid and Hormonal balance
by: Eve

I spend a lot of time searching for answers to the epedimic of hormonal disfunction amongst the population. I have recently (in the last two weeks) added coconut oil to my daily regimine. My skin is so soft in this short period of time...I was a person who had snake skin all my life (tied to the tyroid problems no doubt).

I take 2-3 T/day orally before meals. I worked up to this as if you are a low fat eater (likely leads to the hormone imbalance), it might take a little adjustment for the body. I continued my research on diet and the need for saturated fats (hormone production!!)...there's some very interesting science to consider. Anyway, thought I would share with those that are interested.

A great book to read is eat fat, lose fat by Mary Enig and Sally Fallon. I have not put all their suggestions into place, but I have added the coconut oil and I am very pleased with the results on my skin!! I hardly use any lotion and I live in the desert. Yeah for smooth soft skin :-)

Aug 05, 2011
Question for Eve
by: Wray

Hi Bonnie I'm sad you've decided to stop the progesterone, it was helping in some ways, but anxiety is the most difficult to get rid of. As I said about mine, it took three months before I noticed it lifting. Eve has very good suggestions about good fats, we don't eat enough of them. Take care Wray

Aug 05, 2011
Thyroid and Hormonal balance
by: Wray

Hi Eve I do agree with you about the good fats and oils, we don't use enough in our diet. I use coconut daily, plus MCT (caprylic/capric triglycerides) which is an extract of coconut oil. I prefer to use this for cooking, unless it's a curry, as MCT has no taste, also wonderful for the skin. Plus it has some laxative effects if needed. And of course it's my recommended treatment for getting rid of candida etc, it's an effective fungicide. Mary Enig and Sally Fallon have some excellent advice on the fats. Take care Wray

Click here to add your own comments

Join in and write your own page! It's easy to do. How? Simply click here to return to Progesterone faq.


Search over 7,500 pages on this site...