Complex ovarian cyst

by Belia
(Virginia)

Hi Wray. My doc found what they are calling a complex (or complicated?) ovarian cyst. I didn't see that type of cyst on your cyst page. They want to 'watch' it to see if it is growing or shrinking but that's going to cost a lot & I don't really trust them b/c they said progesterone would do nothing for my prolonged heavy bleeding but when I bought a 22/mg brand & used only a small amount it totally worked and my 6 months of 3 week long periods ended immediately - so clearly they aren't in the 'know' or are looking for $$$. So my question is, is it likely that your progesterone at the doses you recommend could either shrink this type of cyst or keep it from growing or is a complex cyst something unaffected by progesterone & something I should let the docs deal with? Also how long would it take to effect the cyst if it would help it? They want me back in 6 weeks to see if it is growing but I think that's way too soon. Can you confirm that my plan after reading tons on your site is correct? I plan to start using your cream at a high dose (maybe 400 mg) b/c I have other estrogen dominance symptoms and will use it straight through for 2-3 cycles to hopefully get the progesterone dominant as quickly as possible. Then I will taper down in 20 mg amounts to no lower than 100 mg and only use it during the last half of my cycles. I started on 5,000 iu of D but will inc. to 10,000. I am wondering if 400 mg too high for me - I was having 2-3 week long periods, still have bloating, weight gain, weak muscles, hair loss, previously taking a natural thyroid supplement which I suddenly don't need, poor breathing and now being on too low of progesterone I have some constipation and sleep problems but all in all I think its mild compared to what others are experiencing & the low dose of P fixed the prolonged periods - how would I know if 400 was too high of a dose? Thank you so much for what you are doing here. I'm happy to see everything I'm currently dealing with is related to one issue - estrogen dominance - and that it has a fairly simple solution.

Belia

Comments for Complex ovarian cyst

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Jul 25, 2013
Complex ovarian cyst
by: Wray

Hi Belia You are right, everything is related to high oestrogen levels. But because the symptoms are so varied we get sent from one 'ologist' to another. I'm delighted the 22mg stopped the bleeding, it's unusual, but maybe you are young? I've found women in Peri-menopause generally need far more. I haven't written anything about the complex cyst, you are right. I had better update the page! This is a good site here if you want to learn more about it. It appears they don't know why they form, the cyst doesn't follow the menstrual cycle as other types do. Maybe you could look through the list of risks for getting one, and see if any apply to you. I've no idea if progesterone would help, I suspect it would as it prevents proliferation. Whereas oestrogen is a mitogen causing proliferation, and it seems you have enough of the other symptoms to indicate you have high oestrogen. Thank you for reading the site, it does make my life easier! So what you have outlined above is correct. I feel you might not need 400mg/day if the 22mg helped the bleeding issue. So please try 200mg/day and see if that helps get rid of the other symptoms. You can always increase if not. Vitamin D is another potent anti-proliferating nutrient, so this too should help the cyst. I'm pleased you're increasing the dose, but don't forget to have a test done to find your level. Both Progesterone and Vitamin D help myopathy or muscle weakness, see here, here and here. This last abstract has nothing on it, so I've pasted a passage from the paper which I bought... 'Substantial relief of myopathic disability by progesterone therapy'.....
(We report about a 41-year old woman who was suffering from a general muscle weakness since her early childhood....From July 1998 until July 1999 the patient was treated with progesterone suppositorium 0.4 g once a day from the 14th to the 25th day of the menstrual cycle. In July 1999 her gait had improved significantly and she could get up from a chair more easily, even her ability to walk up and down stairs had improved....Progesterone dosage was increased from 400 mg to 600 mg. In January 2001 the patient reported enthusiastically about the improvement she had gained from progesterone-therapy. The patient reported a clear increase in strength in all affected muscle groups resulting in dramatic functional improvement.) Continued below

Jul 25, 2013
Complex ovarian cyst Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Belia And these papers here, here, here and here for vitamin D. They both help sleep problems, constipation, poor breathing, weight gain and Hair Loss too. I suspect your SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) is too low. If bound to SHBG testosterone becomes inactive, progesterone raises levels of SHBG, see here, so preventing the rise of free testosterone and severe PMS. SHBG drops if sugars are eaten, even those found in all grains, legumes, processed milk and sweet starchy fruits and vegetables. Fructose, sucrose and glucose, reduce SHBG by 80, 50 and 40% respectively, see here. Thereby allowing testosterone to rise. It's best to avoid all the foods and sugars mentioned. Low SHBG is a marker for Insulin Resistance. Wine and beers contain carbs, so it's best to avoid those too. Plus alcohol affects hormone levels in women, see here and here. It decreases progesterone levels and increases androgen levels, both the total testosterone and free testosterone become higher. Testosterone is notorious at increasing visceral fat, which causes abdominal fat gain, see here and here. The lowered progesterone, higher testosterone probably accounts for the increased risk in breast cancer risk among women, see here and here. Continued below

Jul 25, 2013
Complex ovarian cyst Part 3
by: Wray

Hi Belia Higher testosterone is also associated with an increased risk for Insulin Resistance and heart disease, see here. Sugars and large meals also drop progesterone levels, see here. Plus insulin drops levels too, see here. This means SHBG also drops, testosterone rises, another vicious cycle. Please don't forget to watch out for Oestrogen Dominance. You could look through our page on Nutrition for ideas on what to eat. Or look through this site here. Thanks for the kind words. Take care Wray

Jul 26, 2013
complex cyst response
by: Belia

Thank you for your response Wray, wonderful to get personal detailed messages! I have thoroughly enjoyed reading through your site - esp. since I had nothing else to do when I couldn't sleep! I am happy to hear that I may not need the 400 mg, I am 'young' if 41 is young - at least I'm not peri-menopausal yet anyway so maybe that is why the small dosage helped my most annoying symptom so quickly. Hypothyroidism is the only risk factor I have for the complex cyst but I don't seem to be needing my natural thyroid supplement anymore which I took all through my 30s, so maybe that is a good sign that the cyst will also improve. I appreciate your info regarding IR - I had never considered that as a possibility for me but I see now that I should be watching out for that. My diet is pretty good & I eat little bits every 3 hours b/c I can tell that I need to but I think there is Sucralose in my protein drink - if I use your energy boost, any idea how long I should be on it if it has an IR reversal effect? Is any Vitamin D okay or are there better types? (If its on your site sorry I missed it) I did sign up to know when the cream comes available - looking forward to that. Thanks again - have a great day!

Jul 27, 2013
complex cyst response
by: Wray

Hi Belia Thanks for the kind words, and for reading the site, a bit heavy for a sleepless night! 41 is on the verge of Peri-menopause. It really depends on when your mother entered it, as daughters usually follow the same pattern. It starts anywhere from 5 to 10 years before Menopause. The average age of this is 51. If you have hypothyroidism it can be due to a lack of vitamin D, see here, here, here, here, here and here. It's unravelling the loops though. A lack of vitamin D reduces the benefits of progesterone. As this is needed to suppress oestrogen, this is likely to be higher than it should be. But high oestrogen slows the thyroid down.......so what is it? A lack of vitamin D, low progesterone or excess oestrogen? Probably all three! Plus of course the amino acid tyrosine, iodine and the co-factor selenium are all vital too. Without these, no matter how hard the thyroid tries, it can't make T3 or T4. Incidentally I looked through the cyst page we have and found I do have info on the complex cysts, but not grouped under one heading. They are Dermoid cysts, Cystadenoma and Chocolate cysts, sometimes called endometrial cysts or endometriomas. I've asked the webmaster to add a passage explaining this. From studies I've looked at on IR, it can take 3 to 6 months to reverse. But it's also a question of not exacerbating it by eating the sweet, starchy carbs or foods which convert to glucose. Or eating/drinking anything with the sugars added. Ideally a Ketogenic or Paleo Diet should be followed. Continued below

Jul 27, 2013
complex cyst response Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Belia If you're sure your protein drink contains sucralose please discontinue it. This is another paper here you might like to look through. I usually recommend the vitamin D that Dr Cannell formulated, see here. Part of the proceeds go towards his Vitamin D Council. Thanks for signing up, I'm quite pleased with the cream. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Aug 09, 2013
Accupuncture/clotting
by: Belia

Hi Wray, I have been on progesterone for a month now and had my first period while taking it - what a difference! I had gone to accupuncture in an attempt to avoid traditional medicine and they said my clotting was from either a too hot or too cold internal temperature & also that I had to stop my running exercise but after just 1 month of progesterone I had a very clot free period and ended right on time rather than lasting weeks. I don't find your cream greasy at all and I can manage to get most of it out of the tube where w/ others it seems they want you to have to leave a bunch of it 'cause you can't get it out! I do have one more question though, I like to measure out my dose for the day & take half in the AM and half in the PM. Is it bad to let the 2nd dose sit out all day until I want it? I also got the vitamin D you recommended and am very pleased w/ it - comes with the vitamin K and magnesium :) I am also feeling better/more satisfied after I eat - I look forward to more improvements as the progesterone takes charge!

Aug 10, 2013
Accupuncture/clotting
by: Wray

Hi Belia I'm delighted you like the cream, and no it's not greasy, I wouldn't use it if it was! You might consider cutting the tube open when it's finished, I do. I cut off the bottom seal, then another cut as far up as I can. Then I slit open the tube, and wipe off the cream. Then you can get the remainder out from the top with a finger. I'm interested your acupuncturist says the clotting could be due to a too hot or too cold internal temperature. Well if you're lacking progesterone you're internal temp will be too cold. Oestrogen lowers body temps, progesterone raises them. During the follicular phase, which lasts from the first day of bleeding to ovulation, temperatures range from 36.45 to 36.7 °C (97.6 to 98.1 °F). Once ovulation occurs and progesterone is being secreted from the corpus luteum, temperatures rise by 0.15 - 0.45 °C (0.2 - 0.9 °F). Giving a temperature range of 36.7 - 37.3°C (98.1 - 99.2°F) during the luteal phase. The rise in temperature is caused by the increased metabolic rate. This lasts from ovulation to bleeding, in all women the luteal phase is always 12-14 days long. With dropping levels of progesterone the few days before bleeding, the temperature also drops, see here. The running is interesting too, as it lowers cholesterol levels, which in turn leaves little to convert to the steroids. Excessive exercise by a women can stop the reproductive process entirely. It's not bad to let the 2nd half sit out during the day, but you will find it tends to dry it out and a 'skin' forms, which you have to mix back into the cream. Very pleased you got that vitamin D, the co-factors are so important, saves you having to buy several bottles to get the right combo. And it gives a good dose too. I see I mentioned iodine for your thyroid, but I feel you could probably do with it for the cyst too, see here, here and here. Please don't forget Oestrogen Dominance, it can come out of the blue. Take care Wray

Sep 29, 2013
3 month follow up question
by: Belia

Hi Wray,

I have been on 1/2 tsp. twice a day of your cream straight through for 3 months now along w/ 10,000 iu of D. My 1st 2 cycles came on time & then the 3rd one was 2 weeks early and now I'm having another period 2 weeks after that. My breast are growing & tender & I feel like I'm gaininag weight in my mid section. I can't keep the iodine patch for more than 4 hours. I'm not sure where to go from here...does it sound like I should keep up the 1 tsp. dose or go higher or try to wean down? Are my breasts going to keep growing!! What iodine supplement do you recommend? I'm taking Thyroset b/c I had some left which I thought would inc. my iodine but it doesn't seem to be, also taking a brown seaweed supplement to try to get iodine. I appreciate your help. I have been helped with better sleep, more stamina & muscle ability when hiking, and my cycles are no longer 3 weeks of heavy bleeding so I know its helped some things but I was hoping to be losing, not still gaining by now and having regular cycles. Thank you for your help.

Oct 02, 2013
3 month follow up question
by: Wray

Hi Belia The weight gain issue is a problem. A problem for me too, as to all intents and purposes it really appears to be progesterone causing it, but it's so difficult to get this across to people. It is in fact oestrogen and/or testosterone. Oestrogen causes cells to proliferate, including fat cells, see here, here, here, here and here. Testosterone is notorious at increasing visceral fat, which causes abdominal fat gain, see here and here. Although the progesterone has helped with some of your symptoms, it does appear it's not fully suppressing the oestrogen/testosterone. You might have to increase the amount you're using to 200mg/day, currently you're getting about 166mg/day. But before you do this, please have a vitamin D test done. Although you're taking 10,000iu per day, it could be your level is still not high enough. If you're not taking magnesium you could try adding this. It's the most important co-factor for vitamin D, a low level will affect the efficacy of vitamin D. This is turn would affect the progesterone. Thyroset seems most excellent, it does contain iodine, 75mcg per two capsules. Although this is low compared to some protocols I've seen. This comment here might interest you. The doses are much higher than in the Thyroset. I'm not sure if I gave you these papers here and here to read about iodine. You could try the Ketogenic Diet. The combo of 200mg/day progesterone, vitamin D and the keto diet certainly helped this woman here. Scroll to 'Update on using Progesterone Creme and Weight Loss with Low Carb diet'. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Dec 06, 2013
follow up
by: belia

Hi Again Wray,

Thank you for your responses to my questions. I had been using progesterone daily (1 tsp. total) and have been weaning down to get to the two week schedule. I was able to go without it for a week this cycle but feel like I should start up again even if though I haven't reached the middle of the cycle yet. Is that an okay way to wean down or am I not ready yet to go down to the 2 week schedule? Based on my mom & sister's menopause that I am about 6 years away from the effects of it. At what point is someone considered perimenopausal? I have started taking a liquid iodine but so far it hasn't helped the iodine patch to stay longer, it only stays a few hours. I am also getting ready to start working on IR w/ diet, exercise, inositol and choline - does the choline slowly increase in dose like the inositol? Thank you so much for your help, I am looking forward to getting the rest of the way back to my normal self hopefully when I start working on the potential IR. I have gotten so 'thick' in the middle, hoping fixing IR will help that? I hope you had a good Thanksgiving!

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