Coming off of Dhea and using progesterone

by Melissa
(North Carolina)

Hey there Wray! Thanks so much for sharing your story... Very inspirational! I pray the Lord blesses you for all the good work you are doing here and in helping others!

I have a question... I was on DHEA 10mg 2-3 times a day for chronic fatigue for 5-6 years. This helped initially but after awhile I didn't notice much energy from the DHEA. I started having these weird fainting sensations so I got my levels checked and my estrogen and testosterone were sky high and my progesterone was very low. I started on your Natpro cream right away and started to feel way worse... weird numbness and spaciness for about 2 months. I have continued on the cream about 1/8 tsp once a day and these symptoms are gone but I still have the fatigue and weight gain.

I gained about 15 pounds since coming off DHEA... I was 135lb and now am 150lb. I eat very healthy and try to exercise but I still can't seem to get the weight off. I suspect I might have low thyroid function even though my tests came back normal... I am taking a natural supplement for that. I know that excess estrogen can cause low thyroid as well.

My question is this... Should I continue on the Natpro cream if my saliva levels come back high even though I am having symptoms?

And what is your opinion about taking DIM to get rid of excess estrogen?

Thanks so much!

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Coming off of Dhea and using progesterone

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Sep 13, 2009
 Coming off of Dhea and using progesterone
by: Wray

Hi Melissa. Thanks for the kind words! I'm very relieved you're not on the DHEA any more, it raises androgens, oestrogens and prolactin, it causes cysts and can cause cancer. Please see this paper:

"Also, DHEA may have a dark side. By facilitating internal production of testosterone and estrogen, supplemental DHEA could accelerate the growth of undetected prostate or breast tumors. Studies have shown higher levels of DHEA - and estrogens made from it - in people with breast cancer and endometrial cancer".

And this:

"Therefore, this study suggests that the ovarian cystic condition developed after DHEA treatment in rats, is associated with higher levels of circulating androgens, estradiol, and prolactin."

So it doesn't surprise me your oestrogen and testosterone were sky high and progesterone was very low! Both these hormones, plus prolactin, suppress progesterone. The reason you had those weird symptoms when starting the progesterone was the huge excess oestrogen you have! Please see this web page, it explains why.

The weight gain is due to the excess oestrogen you now have, the progesterone will help balance this, but you need far more than the 1/8th tsp, this is only giving you ±20mg/day. You would need about 200mg/day to reduce the high level oestrogen, testosterone and prolactin you have. It should be used at least twice daily too, to keep levels up. Tests only show how much of any one hormone is circulating, so even if your progesterone is high, it could be the ratio between oestrogen and progesterone is skewed, hence the continuance of symptoms.

Excess oestrogen also causes insulin resistance which could explain your weight gain, please see this web page.

The amino acid tyrosine suppresses prolactin too, it might be an idea to take some, about 1000-2000mg/day. Tyrosine is essential for thyroid function too, you probably have little due to the prolactin levels. DIM is excellent, safe and effective at reducing oestrogen levels, a good idea to take it. Take care, Wray.
Dec 08, 2009
 Dhea and progesterone
by: Anonymous

I started with bio-dentical harmones and DHEA. My tests came out sky high too and progesterone low so I cut back on estrogens and then quit the DHEA and and Testosterone. I was growing facial hair and have been losing my hair ever since.
Apr 17, 2010
 DIM
by: Melissa

Hey there Wray! Sorry I didn't see this post till now! I"m so glad I found it.

Anyways, I'm still taking the progesterone cream but have been having a hard time taking more than 1/4 tsp of it otherwise it causes weird symptoms... even after a year off of the dhea!

I just started taking DIM a few days ago and noticed that I don't look as puffy and my memory has been better. I am concerned though... I have been reading that cruficerious vegetables and soy can cause thyroid suppression. Since Dim has this in there can it cause thyroid suppression?
Apr 21, 2010
 DIM
by: Wray

Hi Melissa. Well I'm glad it happens to you too, as I miss some I should have answered, and then it's months too late. You have to be the same Melissa I've just answered in another contribution, too coincidental for two Melissa's asking about DIM! Hopefully you will pick that answer up, if not come back to me. I am relieved you're off the DHEA, but you're not using enough progesterone. The symptoms are weird, but unless you increase the amount, it won't benefit you fully. You'll find the progesterone also helps memory, and it's an excellent diuretic. So good in fact that it's now given via IV transfusion to brain trauma victims to prevent the oedema that forms. Please try using 200mg/day progesterone, even more is safe, the higher the better to overcome symptoms quickly. Take care, Wray
Dec 04, 2010
 I'm confused
by: Jennifer

I bought DHEA because I heard it will help level out my hormonal levels. I've been using progesterone cream (1/2 tsp a day, day 12-26) for about the last 4 months. The nutritionist I've been getting advice from says since I'm still spotting for a whole week before my period that I should cut back to 1/4 tsp every other day the last two weeks of my cycle. I decided the last month not to use it at all and nothing changed. I still spotted, but only for three days before my period. I bought DHEA at the store today and when I was reading the bottle, it says that it could cause hair to fall out, etc and cause estogen levels to go up. I don't want that to happen because I'm obviously estrogen-dominant and would like to keep the hair I have left at 43 years of age!

So I'm confused... I've read on this site to use 200mg a day to get rid of estrogen dominant symptoms, but that's like 1/4 to 1/2 of the progesterone cream tube. I use Natural Woman at GNC for $30. Is that correct though? That's how much I need to get rid of the spotting/migraine and some clottage?
Dec 09, 2010
 I'm confused
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer I'm glad you read the DHEA bottle, so many don't read labels. It can cause more than oestrogen to go up, testosterone too, which is the cause of scalp hair loss, plus cysts and cancer, see here, here and here. Spotting is an indication progesterone levels are dropping, so why you were told to cut back is beyond me. Oestrogen causes the lining to thicken, MMP's are enzymes that break the lining down. Progesterone inhibits MMP's, it's only when progesterone levels drop at the end of the luteal phase that the MMP's can start working and we bleed. If progesterone is low, there's nothing to stop the MMP's from breaking the lining down, hence the spotting. I do recommend 100-200mg/day, and you are right if you are using a low strength cream! It does use the container up very quickly. As you've noticed the low amount you were using was not doing anything, it really does have to be high to have any real affect. Please see our page on How to use progesterone cream. As you're heading for Peri-menopause, please read this page, it gives you an idea of what to expect. Progesterone should only be used from ovulation. Starting on day 12 is fine if your cycle is 25 days long, but if for instance it's 28 days, it should be started on day 15, and used for the next 14 days of the luteal phase. If you should consider increasing the amount, please read this page first on Oestrogen Dominance, this can occur and is disconcerting if it does. Take care Wray
Jan 11, 2011
 tsp of cream?
by: Jennifer

2 tsp of cream is equal to 200 mg? Natural Woman progesterone cream has 56 grams/2 oz in a container. Is that right? I'm confusing myself lol
Jan 15, 2011
 tsp of cream?
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer Are you sure it's as low as 56g/2 oz and not 560g/2 oz? Even 560g is very low. Assuming it's 560g/2 oz that will give you 9.3mg progesterone per g of cream. If you want to use 100mg/day progesterone, you will have to use just over 2tsp of cream, which is double what you have said. 200mg would require 4tsp of cream. Take care Wray
Feb 07, 2011
 tsp of cream?
by: Jennifer

Wray, thank you for all of your advice.

I had went off the cream (using only 40mg a day) to see what would happen and I was still spotting. You told me to use more. I'm late starting it this month, I started on the 18th day and I started spotting again as usual on the 21st day. I usually spot about 5 days before my period. I've been using 200 mg per day since the 18th day. Is it going to take another one or two cycles of using the cream before I stop spotting? Maybe I am not using enough, should I not be spotting at all using 200mg per day?
Feb 24, 2011
 tsp of cream?
by: Wray

Hi Jennifer 40mg is far too low to help the spotting. It doesn't even raise the level of progesterone to that of the luteal phase, see here. It will take a few cycles to settle down. Starting on the 18th day is too late, as you didn't have enough time to build up the progesterone level. Please make sure you use the cream from ovulation, and not before. This always occurs, in all women, 12-14 days before they bleed. I don't know your cycle length, so can't advise on when you should start it, but please see our page on How to use progesterone cream for more info. 200mg/day is a good amount, so I'm sure in a few cycles the spotting will have stopped. Let me know how you get on. Take care Wray
Oct 22, 2011
 freezing cold hands and feet
by: Erika

Hi, for the last two years i have been dealing with what they "think" is perimenopause. I started getting hot in my stomach, inside of arms and thighs you chould feel it radiating off of me, while my hands, feet and nose remained freezing and also sweating! I have been useing natural Progesterone 100 mg a day the heat went away but my hands got colder however they did quit sweating, now my naturopath has me taking somatotropic plus to help with the cold however i am now extremely hot again and hands and feet are so warm they are red and sweating again needless to say i quit taking the soma two days after i started as i couldnt take the heat, i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions, i did take your progesterone text and scored a 29. Thanks.

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