alison

by alison
(iva,sc,usa)

I am 39 and have been diagnosed with estrogen dominance. My doctor prescribed 25mg oral progesterone on days 5-12 and 50mg oral progesterone on days 13-26. I have been halfway consistent with the dosages. I have started and stopped a couple of times in the last month because the effects have been awful! I've had insomnia, anxiety, depression, weight gain, flushing, heart palpitations. I don't know if this is normal for a couple of weeks or if this is as Reiss states due to candida. I have also changed doctors and the new doctor wants me on a higher dosage-150mg on days 15-28 and 50 mg on days 1-14. I am on day 24 of my cycle and at first, the 150mg gave me excellent sleep for about 4 nights. for the past two, i've been very anxious again and depressed and my belly HURTS as well. I'm scared to continue on with this stuff. I feel so alone and my family is worried. I've barely slept in a month. Any help, please. I'm very desperate.

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Nov 25, 2011
alison
by: Wray

Hi Alison Oral progesterone is the least effective Delivery system. I recommend 100-200mg/day, more if symptoms are severe. I suggest you open the caps you have, add the contents to a small amount of cold pressed oil or a natural skin cream, and rub that on your skin. This way you will get the full benefit of the progesterone. I've found it best to rub the progesterone on any painful part, it works quicker. Unless symptoms are severe, I don't recommend using progesterone in the first half of the cycle, the ovaries are not making any then. But as yours are, I suggest using it daily, through your period too, for at least 2-3 months. And not lowering the amount during the follicular phase at all. I feel you will need at least 150mg/day if not more. If you do follow my suggestion, please read our page on Oestrogen Dominance first. This can occur when increasing the progesterone, which will be the case if you use the caps as I suggest. We do have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Feb 23, 2012
re
by: alison

Dear Wray,

I went off the progesterone in November. I was near suicidal.Took some testing for adrenals and neuros. Adrenal profile was in range but slightly elevated. My gaba was high probably due to the progesterone still in my body. I also took a complete digestive stool analysis which revealed mild candida -by genova, +1 range. My ND, omd does not support progesterone therapy and had me do a candida cleanse and a chinese formula called xiao yao wan. I started to feel better in Jan as far as the anxiety goes as this is my huge complaint. But this betterment only lasted a week. Could mild candida cause anxiety? And does the oral progesterone cause candida? So I started using low dose progesterone-progon B. (I was reading Reiss's book a lot.) I could never get above 1 tablet, which has around 8 mg. When I did, I'd have all the symptoms of the past tryings- hot flashes, extreme antsiness, retained water, high high cortisol, ibs, insomnia etc. Fortunately with the sublingual progesterone as this, the effects did not last nearly as long as the cream. I was having severe pms which eventually became the norm for my entire cycle. So I went back to my hormone doc and she gave me valium and asked me to please use the progesterone cream instead at 20 mg days 1-14 and 60-80 mg on days 15-28. I have not touched the valium since i got it two weeks ago and instead agreed to try the cream. It has been exactly two weeks since using it. It's insane. I cannot tolerate 15 mg at once so i've been spreading the dose out throughout the day. one day that works fine and just when i think i got it- wham, i apply another 8mg and i'm in cortisol burn- awake again and psycho. I have been in constant contact with my doc who says to find that happy dose?...oh my god, how? I'm scared to death to try more. so here i am, day 16 of my cycle and i am afraid i'll be bald soon if i keep playing with this prog cream. i can't handle this much fluctuation. do i increase my dosage? how long will these symptoms continue? I'm really confused because no one agrees on the dosage-lee recommends 15-30. others such as yourself say to increase the dosage to 100mg. I can't tell if these symptoms are progesterone EXCESS or TOO LITTLE progesterone and i'm constantly overstimulating with small amounts. how do you tell? I'm a single mom with 3 girls and I am falling apart. I've lost all faith in who i was- i live in a constant state of anxiety to such a degree that i don't even practice herbalism right now and yogic breathing exacerbates my symptoms. What to do? Also, how long does it take for the prog. cream to leave my body. After a terrible night as last with the cortisol, flushing, insomnia...I noticed the symptoms peak at 6 hours and settle down by 12. Dare I try it again? Oh my god. I'm am petrified silly. Please help. No one has a clue around me.

Feb 24, 2012
wrong dosage info
by: re

Sorry Wray, but after talking to my doc, i found out that i've been using about 1.5mg- 2.5 mg at once. The prescription is in a clicker tube and one click = 5 mg. All this time I thought it was 20 mg. Either way, i'm freaking out on 1.5mg-2.5mg at once. i'm thinking i need more. what do you think?

Feb 25, 2012
re
by: Wray

Hi Alison As I said in my previous reply to you, which I obviously didn't emphasise enough, all you're suffering from is Oestrogen Dominance. You evidently have far too much oestrogen circulating, and using the small amounts of progesterone that you have, it will only make matters worse. I strongly recommend you use 400mg/day as I've found this prevents it, plus use it daily through any bleeding, for at least 2-3 months. This will allow progesterone to become the dominant hormone, and suppress any excess oestrogen. Each time you stop it allows oestrogen to rise again, and you're back to square one. The typical 20-40mg/day that is recommended does not raise levels to that found in the luteal phase. One study found that using 40mg/day "…. only low plasma progesterone levels were found (median 2.5 nmol/l)". The ranges for the luteal phase are 15.9 - 63.6 nmol/L (5 to 20 ng/ml). Men secrete <3.18 nmol/L (<1 ng/ml), see here. 60-80mg/day will not fare much better. Dr Dalton would use 800-2400mg/day for her patients with severe problems. Traumatic Brain Injury victims are given over 1200mg/day via IV transfusion. The worse the problem the more is needed. You might like to read these comments from users of high amounts, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. We have more info on our page How to use progesterone cream. We also have a page on Anxiety too. Take care Wray

Feb 25, 2012
wrong dosage info
by: Wray

Hi Alison You say you're using 1.5 to 2.5mg but one click gives you 5mg. So you're only using 1/3 to 1/2 a click each time. Whether it's this low, or 40mg or 60mg it really doesn't matter, as you're using far too little! I hope my previous reply has cleared the confusion. Take care Wray

Feb 25, 2012
re
by: Alison

Hi Wray,
Thank You so much for replying. I have learned so much from you and your site in the last couple of days. My doctor hasn't a clue and would you believe this is the 3rd one i've seen. Yesterday, I had a terrible migraine and was on day 17 of my cycle. I used about 60 mg of progesterone cream and voila-gone. Today in the a.m. i applied about 75 mg. progesterone cream-no flushes, cortisol highs, anxiety, ibs, at all!!! I will re-apply tonight another 75mg. I figured for today about 150mg. would be a good start. I've done so much thinking reflecting back on the last ten years of my life and I've really been able to narrow down the beginning of my hormonal imbalance. When i was 34 and 35 years old, I had two more children. I was pregnant and breastfeeding at the same time. I was a mess. I was mad too. I was miserable in my marriage and i was homeschooling a 7 year old!!! I left my husband with my 2 yr old, 9 monther and 8 year old. My business crashed. I almost lost my farm and i had adrenal fatigue and 2 gut infections. That was two years ago. I've always been radiantly healthy until this time. Now I understand the progesterone/cortisol connection and i've started back on my adrenal fatigue formulas. I'm amazed how sick i have been the last 8 months. I'm so thankful for this relief today. I'm smiling-what is that? You are a godsend. I've gotten more info off this site than i would for paying my doctor a 1,000 dollars. Much thanks to you. I'll be in touch.

Feb 26, 2012
re
by: Wray

Hi Alison Bless you for the kind words! I can't tell you how delighted I am it's helping now. Please watch for any signs of oestrogen dominance, it can come out of the blue, specially when stressed. Continue using the cream as you are, which is as and when needed. But always using your optimal amount. Whether you use it a minimum of twice a day or divided further doesn't matter. In fact many women use it hourly if symptoms are severe. It's hardly surprising you suffered hormonal imbalances with the stress you've been through. How lovely you have a farm, hard work but so worth it. I had a small one once, would love to go back to it. I'm pleased you're back to taking the adrenal formula, these are the most overworked and overlooked of all our glands. Progesterone does help relieve the strain on them. Firstly the adrenals make progesterone before converting it to cortisol. But if they are stressed, they rob other sources, notably the ovaries. This then disrupts the reproductive system, in fact stress can stop ovulation. When this occurs of course no progesterone is made, a vicious cycle. Secondly it activates the GABA receptor sites, this is one of the most calming neurotransmitters. So the stress response is lessened. Do let me know how you get on. Take care Wray

Feb 26, 2012
re
by: Alison

Hi Wray,
You reply so quickly. I can only imagine how many posts you are busy with daily. If you have time for another, i am wondering about something. I had quite a happy experience yesterday with the progesterone for the entire day but i had energy fluctuations- first 3 hours i felt relaxed, sort of floaty. Then i had gargantuous antsy energy for like 4 hours. Then i had anxiety waves, heart palpitations and burning hands and feet. By 10.30pm, i was okay to go to sleep. To be honest, I switched my progesterone to another brand- pure essence FemCreme. I can't call the co. now, but the bottle says "1/4 teaspoon(approximately half pump) yields 24 mg..."
But, when i measured it, half pump = 1/8 teaspoon. I did this experiment last night, trying to figure out if i was experiencing signs of excess. Basically i'm now unsure as to the exact dosage that i put on. I used three pumps, thinking it was 75 mg. But now i'm not sure. It could have been 150mg (6 half pumps). Did you understand that? So this morning I used emerita instead which i know has 20 mg per 1/4 t. I think I'll stick with that and see if i hear from you. And after a couple of hours I'll re-apply throughout the day. I may just resort back to my compounded prog. from my doctor, but i feel iffy about that one. Do you think i possibly had too much? I was afraid that if i added more at night, i'd awake in the night all wacky and charged up. Any insight would be so helpful because i'm not sure really what all that was. I'd love it if i could just stay relaxed. By the way, I read Uzzi's book and he talks a lot about the paradoxical responders who react to a small amout of prog. as if it is a huge exces- anxious, antsy (prog. converting to cortisol), retain water (deoxycortisone), hot flashes or depression(estrogen down-regulation)- is this burning hands and feet????I almost always get it when i use the cream. Please help.

Feb 29, 2012
metabolic warp
by: alison

I've figured out that the adrenal cortex in my adrenal supplement is making me hyper if i take it in the afternoon or evening. I'm done with that right now. I'll stick to some herbs. As for progesterone- I'm nuts with it and without. I'm so displeased with the eraatic emotional rollercoaster that i am on. Maybe this is the estrogen dominance peeping out that you warned about,Wray. My doctor is condemning me for playing with 100 mg of the cream, too. I feel like I must be her only patient like this. OMG! I'm in dire anxiety today-applied 50mg. Is there anybody who is great on this prog. at 100-200mg a day! And have they decreased since the first couple of cycles. I just feel depersonalised so much from one day to the next. I'm on day 22 of 26 day cycle, so i know i'm spazzing on pms. With all the tests i've had done, low progesterone =47:1 ratio in oct.2011 and low ferritin =27...are all that stands out. So, i'm really trying to give this a shot. My biggest fear is not really knowing what i'm doing and so many people including my doc are telling me i'm using dangerous amounts of prog. Then I read about people who have the prog. stored up in their tissues and are trying to resolve that. Ugh

Mar 01, 2012
metabolic warp
by: Wray

Hi Alison I do try to reply quickly, but it doesn't always happen! But it's the same old story, you're not using enough! Dr Dalton would use 2400mg/day for her patients with post natal psychosis, Traumatic Brain Injury victims get over 1200mg/day via IV transfusion, they needed it. Which is why I say to all women with serious side effects, use more, much more than the standard amount of 20-40mg/day. In fact I've just done a webpage explaining all this, see Progesterone Misconceptions. I gave you those comments from users of high amounts, did you not have time to read them? As they all say how much better they felt once they'd increased the amount. Which is what I'm going to ask you to do. Some of them go as high as 1000mg/day. If enough progesterone is used it will suppress excess oestrogen, testosterone, aldosterone, prolactin and cortisol. Burning hands and feet is peripheral neuropathy, for which progesterone is excellent, if enough is used. We run Saliva Tests and have found from these that the ratio of P:E2 should be 600:1 and over to feel well. Please increase the amount you're using, and have a vitamin D test done. A lack of this reduces the benefits of progesterone. For more info on vitamin D levels, testing etc see the Vitamin D Council, GrassrootsHealth, Birmingham Hospital and Vitamin D Links websites. Blood levels should be 70-100ng/ml or 175-250nmol/L and not the 30ng/ml or 75nmol/L most labs and doctors regard as adequate. The minimum daily dose should be 5000iu's per day, although the latest research indicates it should be 10,000iu's per day, see here. Take care Wray

Mar 01, 2012
re
by: Alison

Thank You Wray. You are so right!!! It takes my body about an hour to metabolize the prog. cream. To all of you out there, Wray is right! I used 5o mg yesterday at the height of deranged nervousness and an hour later it was gone! I added another 10mg as well then. I am proof so far of it's effects. When I used a little- like 2.5 mg- my estrogen dominance went crazy. At 20mg- still crazy. I have to top 60-75mg to eliminate the anxiety and it does wonders on sore breasts too(gone by the next day)! Who cares what other people are saying about your dosage. Do what feels right for you and by all means increase because your body is telling you it needs more. Do not be afraid of it. My mind has been my worst enemy as far as accepting the need for the progesterone. I'm an herbalist and i've always used whole plants as my medicine. But you know, sometimes we really need to just give our bodies what it is lacking. And your body will tell you if you listen. This is why after 8 mo's of trying everything else-acupuncture, herbs, diet, yoga, etc. i kept going back to progesterone. I knew what it needed but i got side-tracked with oral supplementation(sucks for me) and with doctors shunning it's use. Even doctors shun the 100-200 mg dosage. I had one doctor tell me this- 'my breakdown is in the adrenal system and although supraphysiologic doses of progesterone may feel good, that is not the answer.' Sure, but it is the missing link in the chain for me. I just read a great article on traditional chinese medicine and bio-identical hormones that made it so clear to me- progesterone is the ESSENCE OF KIDNEY YANG! Use it and be thankful it is available to you. How many of us have ingested our placentas after giving birth! Imagine if we did! All those hormones going back to the source! I still have 2 of mine in the freezer...haha. Seriously though.

Mar 01, 2012
cont'
by: Alison

Wray has offered an INVALUABLE RESOURCE here for all of us. For me, the constant replies and support from Wray has gotten me to this point of EXHALE- absolute release. I feel like myself again. I got a road ahead of me, I know, but the balance that I've received from the prog. cream has given me joy, smiles, relaxation and the ability to be around my kids without feeling so fragile that their voices can shatter me to pieces! That is the power of Essence- Jing-Kidneys- Progesterone. Use this stuff. My life is turning around now. Oh and the estrogen dominance comes out of nowhere- for sure- when you start using the cream sometimes. For me, it mellowed out after about a week or two. You'll feel it- your thermostat levels out- breast soreness diminishes- you don't pass out anylonger as easily- you just feel dare I say normal. Thank You so Much Wray!!!
BTW- I am low on Vit. D too. I take 5,ooo a day.

'When Essence is depleted, so is Blood and Qi, Yin and Yang...The organism responds to this state of scarcity with ANXIETY...As kidney essence declines, a domino effect engenders downline deficiencies that eventually impact the Liver, Heart, Spleen and Lung.'

It's no wonder why I have deficient spleen qi, heart qi and lung qi too- according to my omd.


This article is at Acupuncture.com - Menopause, Hormones and Chinese Medicine.

I'll be in touch. Time for some cream!

Mar 02, 2012
re
by: Wray

Hi Alison What can I say?! I'm delighted you listened to what your body was telling you, and me pushing you in the background. And you responded so quickly too. You are so aware of oestrogen dominance now, if it should ever kick in again, please use more progesterone. And don't forget stress drops levels too, so use more. I'm also delighted you're taking 5000iu's per day vitamin D, it's so essential. Please have another test soon, as it could be you need to take more to bring your level up. Let us know how you get on, and bless you for the kind words! Take care Wray

Mar 02, 2012
re
by: Alison

Thank You Wray for everything. I'll be in touch. Keep up:)

Mar 04, 2012
HELP PLEASE
by: Alison

Dear Wray,
I really need your help on this.
I'm on day 26 of my cycle-which is usually the first day of my period.
I was doing so good as you know by my replies.

Question #1: The last two nights have been horrific! Nightsweats. I have not slept well at all. But that is not all. Yesterday, I used @ 80mg throughout the day prog. cream and I could not get any relief from feeling antsy and anxious. I did not take anymore because I got extremely bloated but more concerning is the sites where I applied the cream to my skin began BURNING- HOT to touch and I feel this morning very antsy- like cortisol. I can't find any similar posts on this site about this sensation. It is debilitating. Therefore, I'm scared to death to increase the dosage.
What do you know about this-please tell...

Question #2: Reiss mentions the paradoxical response as having symptoms of anxiety, antsiness, HOTFLASHES and depression and water retention----DO YOU BELIEVE this RESPONSE is possible??? I've got some of them.

Question #3: When you recommend 100-200mg of prog. cream daily- is that a permanent dose for a couple of months? For instance, some days I'd use 100 mg or more, next day 60-80 mg, next day 50mg, next day 100 mg. I was going by my symptoms.

Question #4: Can too much prog. raise cortisol levels? I'm really feeling rough as the prog. does not create calmness for the last day or so. Quite the contrary right now. I'm worried as to what it is doing to my adrenal fatigue.

Question #5: other symptom in the last day has been (day 25 of cycle and today) feeling COLD INSIDE BUT MY SKIN IS HOT AND WHEN I SLEEP I HAVE NIGHTSWEATS. But all day, I feel uptight like clenched arms against my sides and cold. Is the prog. doing something to my thyroid???

Please Please help me figure this out. I can't find the answers on the internet or in Lee's books or through my doc. I'm holding off until I hear from you. I'm totally freaked out and the burning skin is so awful that i'm scared to put cream on. I have much respect for your research and input, of course.

Alison


Mar 04, 2012
HELP PLEASE
by: Wray

Hi Alison You are using too little progesterone, plus your use of it is too erratic. One minute you say you use 50mg and the next you think it's 150mg. Please stick to the 150mg/day, and increase from that if symptoms return. Do not decrease it! The fact you have bad days is there's a time lag of using a high amount the day before, and then dropping to a low amount. Progesterone begins dropping after about 13 hours. As I said "if enough progesterone is used it will suppress excess oestrogen, testosterone, aldosterone, prolactin and cortisol. Burning hands and feet is peripheral neuropathy, for which progesterone is excellent, if enough is used". I didn't give you the papers, but see here, here and here. The paradox comes from the fact that progesterone stimulates oestrogen, leading to Oestrogen Dominance. All those symptoms you mention are from this effect, ie too much oestrogen, not cortisol. I gave you the web page on TBI, look through it and you'll see that progesterone reduces water retention, it's an excellent diuretic. It can't cause water retention! It can't cause depression or anxiety either, it's potent anxiolytic, so is it's metabolite allopregnanolone, see here, here, here, here and here. Continued below.

Mar 04, 2012
HELP PLEASE Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Alison As for adrenal fatigue, it's probably caused by a lack of progesterone. The adrenals first secrete progesterone, which they then convert into cortisol. If the adrenals are stressed they rob other sources, notably the ovaries. This then upsets the reproductive system, in fact stress can stop ovulation. If this occurs, no progesterone is made, so a vicious cycle starts. Not only that, but as progesterone is such a potent anxiolytic, without it's influence, the stress response becomes that much greater. Which just adds to the vicious cycle. Oestrogen lowers temperature, progesterone raises it. This is why some women use a temp chart to check when they ovulate. The cold inside is nothing to do with your thyroid, but low progesterone levels. We do have a page on Hot Flushes and night sweats, it explains why it occurs. So please, please use about 150mg/day progesterone, and do not decrease from this amount at all. If any of those symptoms you describe come back, increase the amount. I told you were have women using up to 1000mg/day if symptoms get very bad. Please read those links I gave you. Thanks for the kind words! Take care Wray

Mar 04, 2012
Thank You!
by: Alison

I can' t thank you enough. I wish I could do something for you in return. I haven't a clue how to however. I will persevere as you suggested. This time, sticking to the dosage. I won't take anymore of your energy now so blessings to you and all around you and to all women and...men on this site. Aren't we all trying to find peace in our bodies and lives. Alison.

Mar 05, 2012
Thank You!
by: Wray

Hi Alison Bless you for your offer, you can do something. Please stick to the amount I suggested and increase it if you feel symptoms getting you down. Please do not decrease until you are completely stable. And I do need you to write back! You are not taking my time and energy, I love doing this. But the most important thing for me is to know if the person is healing. I won't know this unless you let me know. And if you hit another hurdle, I need to be able to guide you if I can. Take care Wray

Mar 05, 2012
re
by: Alison

Hi Wray,
Thank you so much! I am using your advice and certainly will try to continue. My big concern is that i am not in agreement with my doc regarding my dosage and so i feel even more dependent on your help. It's frustrating because i often wonder if out of all of her patients, she may have someone with similar symptoms to mine. So many doctors nowadays do not do enough differential diagnosis and it hurts them and their patients. They rely way too much on testing and so much less on their intuition and communication with the patient-ie-what is this patient really telling me...anyways, it's no wonder so many of us are searching with our own intuitive guide for some answers from other women such as yourself. I've read over all of what you have suggested and I would love to know if women who use 150mg daily for a couple of months, are able to decrease their dose at all-perhaps they(like) yourself, do not need to. the 100 mg last night knocked me out. Took 50 this morning. Knocked me out too. So i feel relieved but honestly, still very unsure about what i'm doing. This is also probably because my past doctor chewed my head off for self figuring my predicamet without his consent-i'm not your average pstient either and have been studying natural healing for 20 years. That's why all this i'm going thru is a whole new learning and for me, i really think that stress and childbirth, divorce...and fatigue have just taken all ESSENCE out of me. And at the beginning and end of the day, i'm the one who tends to the kids and unfortunately, there's no one who's there to catch me...

Mar 05, 2012
cont'
by: Alison

Sorry..i was rambling but that's the other thing too- our ovaries and adrenals are ruled by our first and second chakras and these chakras are concerned with survival and whatnot. So all these emotions that get locked up in those chakras are interacting with biochemical processes and it's no wonder we get so imbalanced. I've definitely been clearing a lot of past traumatic feelings down there with my ex husband and family etc.
Anyways, My period came yesterday on day 26 and since using the prog. it has slowed today-almost stopping. I know my symptoms are severe enough to continue on, so i will. But, is there any harm to the sloughing that is not happening now??? People really differ on this topic. Will period ever come back? BTW my anxiety has diminished greatly even with the erratic usage i used but my sleep has suffered more with the nightsweats-so we'll see what next couple days do. I've researched a lot lately. That's my story right now. I know i'll be writing soon. I still have mild burning where i've used the cream on the back of my neck too?

Mar 06, 2012
re
by: Wray

Hi Alison Most of us are not in agreement with our doctors, I don't have one, haven't for my entire adult life. Occasionally I've needed one, when I had my daughter, as I did when I broke my arm. Or when I once had candida years ago, never had it before so hadn't a clue what it was. So I find the nearest. The amounts I suggest are far higher than others recommend, but I've only seen good come of it. The web is littered with complaints about progesterone, even this site, but when reading them I realise each time people are not using enough. In my early days of researching into it, Dr Dalton was alive, and she would advise me on how much we should use. I visited her when in London, she gave of her time freely when she knew what I was doing. She always advocated large amounts, she herself giving her patients 800mg/day for severe problems, up to 2400mg/day if they had post natal psychosis. You might like to read this page here. It's interesting your take on the first and second chakras being concerned with survival, Ray Peat believes there are four fundamentals to health, cholesterol, progesterone, vitamin D and E, see here. All are intimately involved in our ovaries, testes and adrenals. You are still getting periods it seems, so they haven't actually stopped. I find 400mg/day or more is needed to stop bleeding. So yes it will come back, you might get an extra heavy bleed next time, but that's nothing to worry about. It means the uterus is being cleaned of old lining if there has been a build up. So pleased the anxiety has been helped. If the night sweats still trouble you, 400mg/day or more is needed to stop them. The burning should go too. Take care Wray

Mar 06, 2012
100 at night 50 day
by: Alison

Hi Wray,
I've written a lot lately and this is my latest entry. Last night's 100mg put me to sleep but i woke 4 hours later in a mild puddle-also i still have my period! what does that mean? slept hourly after changing nightclothes. I feel also like the prog. makes me sigh a lot and i feel a little depressed today.
Also, i stopped taking my adrenal glandulars cause i felt like they jacked me up. since then though i've been waking every night-any ideas?

Mar 06, 2012
Your stiuation
by: Wendy

Hi Alison, I also have a page on Wray's site and our situations are so similar. Even though you feel like you're taking up Wray's time and energy, I wanted you to know that I am benefiting from your dialogue with her. My anxiety is through the roof and my other symptoms are cumbersome, but not nearly the problem that the anxiety is. I am struggling with my dosages as well and have my flow due any day.

I was so sure when I was feeling well after the past couple of days on progesterone that I would stick with Wray's suggestions no more questions asked, but I hit a crazy phase in the middle of the night last night and could not think with logic or common sense. I just became so confused as to what to do next.

Your postings are so relatable to what I'm going through that I just wanted to encourage you to keep it up, as I will try to do as well.

Mar 06, 2012
100 at night 50 day
by: Wray

Hi Alison So you using 50mg in the morning and 100mg at night. It could be you need to use 200mg/day, particularly if you feel a little depressed. And you have only been using this higher amount for a day now, or at the most two. It does take time, it is trial and error too. Some women take 3-6 months before things come right. And when you say you still have your period, shouldn't you? I don't know how long it normally lasts, so if you could let me know it would help. Interesting the progesterone is making you sigh, it does expand airways and lung volume, it's essential for respiration, see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. It seems the glandulars were helping, if since stopping them you wake at night. Have you thought of trying them again, but at a reduced dose? Take care Wray

Mar 06, 2012
re
by: Alison

Hi Wray,
Yes, (i'm trying to remember everything you said...duh) oh yes, it does make me sigh...and yes, i have thought about using the glandulars again-i use wilson's formulas, so that would be adrenal rebuilder. i think i'll cut them and go from there. glad you said something about that. btw, i can't tolerate the 50 in a.m. without passing out so i did not use it this morning-i have a 5 yo at home still and passing out with her lately has left her annoyed...to say the least. i'll double up tonight. i did use 25 this morning and that was fine. i ordered one of Dalton's books on progesterone therapy since you are my mentor now, i might as well read about one of yours...keep the lineage sort of. Oh yeah, my period does the adrenal fatigue thing...for the last 5 or more years, it lasts only 3-4 days. it leaves on day 3 and comes back on day 4 and it brings major headaches always on day 2. so today, day 3, it's gone. i've always been like clockwork as far as the 28 day cycle until the last 6 mos' where now it comes every 26 days. always bright red blood which i know in tcm signifies yin deficiency aka adrenal fatigue. also, with all of my 3 girls, i birthed them at home and drug free and never used any birth control pills in my life...but, i always got my period by the second mnth after birthing...i don't know if this means anything as far as a clue to my hormones then-perhaps deficiency then too. hope this helps and gets your brain demystifying my workup. i'm around and you are awesome, a blesssing and a compassionate soul. the goddess shines so sweetly upon you...alison

Mar 07, 2012
to wendy
by: Alison

Hi Wendy,
I'm going to check out your situation on the site. I'm so thrilled that you wrote to me. Then I'll write back to you.

Mar 07, 2012
re
by: Wray

Hi Alison You do say the kindest things! Dr Wilson is very good on adrenal fatigue, let me know how you get on cutting down on the dose. I have another woman in the UK who takes them, and she finds she can't do without them. I do understand, passing out with a 5 yr old is difficult! I hope that passes soon, as it's best to use it twice a day if not more. What about at lunch time? Ah I'm so pleased you ordered one of Dr Dalton's books, she is/was a wonderful soul. None of her contemporaries agreed with her of course, as they didn't with Dr Lee, but she stuck to her guns, and helped thousands of women regain sanity. Her own migraines were cured by progesterone injections, given to her by her doctor, Dr Raymond Greene. So we're talking late 1940's! By 1953 they had the first-ever description of 'Premenstrual Syndrome' published in the British Medical Journal. Before that PMS was unknown, well the symptoms certainly, not the acknowledgment. Her book on PND is excellent too. Now I understand about the length of your period, and I take it it hasn't come back on day 4? Do you still get headaches? If so rub the cream all over your neck, under your ears, face too. It usually helps, I did that to a young man, and he looked astounded when the headache had gone within minutes! You know more about TCM than I do, but red blood to me signifies health! It's the dark, old blood, or brownish with clots that many women get, which signifies something is wrong. Wonderful you had your girls at home, but normally breast feeding stops periods for months in some cases. I don't know why yours came back so soon. Take care Wray

Mar 07, 2012
re
by: Alison

Thank You Wray for the comments and compliments! I'm going to try to get some help to Wendy! I'm doing pretty well. Still struggling with nightsweats but it takes time, huh. I'll let you know about the adrenal rebuilder soon as today i will be starting them again. My period did come back this morning with the nightsweats and headache too. And I can't wait for the book-it should be here today! Cheers, Alison

Mar 07, 2012
how do i talk to rosanne on the site?
by: Alison

Hi Wray, I am doing well. I did not take my prog this morning so that i could tell what the adrenal rebuilder would do-only took a half but i am extremely sensitive to everything. i really want to know from rosanne if when she took it at anytime, if it made her very calm. looking back in my journal, i'm seeing a pattern sort of because sometimes if i maybe took a higher amount i got stimulated. mainly, i want to know her experience because it is such a great product with so many other glandulars beside adrenal cortex-hypothalamus(sleep). anyways, once again, i passed out today. i also noticed though with the adrenal rebuilder, i get this sore spot right on my sinuses called stomach 1 in tcm. it's a pattern now in my journal notes. i'd love to know her experience. can you pass this on to her?

Mar 07, 2012
Holy Smokin' Adrenal Rebuilder
by: Alison

Hello Wray,

Yes i'm tinkering about way past my window of slumber! Well, i don't reckon that adrenal rebuilder suits me well at all. this afternoon, i passed out and i took the other half at 5pm. and by 7.30 i was completely chock full of cortisol or something- complete hysteria! don't think it's for me. for all i know, i could have ingested a magic cow patty! think i'll forego the glandulars on account of never ever knowing what i will metamorphosize into next. sticking with the lowly plants for now. be well and drink tea. Any of you out there with similar experiences-pray tell I.

Mar 08, 2012
Hello Again
by: Wendy

Alison,

I really enjoyed reading your post on my page. I will re-read it several times to get out of it all that you shared. I know my problems started at puberty. PMS, migraines, minor depression, carb cravings...

As an adult, my pregnancy and nursing experiences were all effected my low progesterone. After my second baby, 4 years ago, I had a similar breakdown at 14 months postpartum. It was not as severe, but I was younger and under a little less stress. My current anxiety and panic started slowly the more postpartum I was until I weaned my daughter, and that very weekend, I fought my first panic attack. It grew from that point to a breakdown of sorts. This all points to estrogen dominance. Of course, doctors would not acknowledge these connections.

In addition, I have totally forgotten that I had a ductal yeast infection with this last baby requiring 28 days of Diflucan (notoriously bad for the liver). Of course the infection came raging back after the script was done. Found that 6 months of threelac and fivelac worked far better for yeast. However, looking back, there a chance that the diflucan effected my liver causing a worse hormonal imbalance. The benzo helped me get past a debilitating bout of panic and anxiety. Like you, I was only on it a few months, and only for the part of my cycle that challenged me the most. I was cautious, but not worried I would have withdrawal! My husband works out of state so I live the life of a single mom ( and by the way have gone through divorce as well in my past) I had my latest baby at home with a midwife. It was an awesome experience, and thought the natural experience would give me an hormonal leg up. Fast-forward 15 months and WHAMO!

I wanted to respond to your glandular question: I have tried many things for adrenals over the years. 4 years ago, I successful re-energized my adrenals with a protocol from my chiro. I have tried to go back to that but no combination of adaptagens and glandulars are working for me. Just this week, I took an adrenal glandular right before my afternoon slump - it made me anxious, within 1/2 hour of taking it. Others have wound me up. I think I need to allow the progesterone to calm and sooth my body for a while and then maybe I can rebuild some other things.

The support on this sight is so wonderful. It is the one place in 5 months I have been able to learn from and lean on other women suffering, sharing and surviving.

Mar 10, 2012
Holy Smokin' Adrenal Rebuilder
by: Wray

Hi Alison Well that was brave of you experimenting like that! i love your 'Holy Smokin' Adrenal Rebuilder'! But I'm not sure going off the progesterone at the same time as taking the glandulars was a good plan. It could well have been the drop in progesterone causing some, if not all the magic cow patty effect! But I think maybe stick to the progesterone and the plants for now. Rosanne is quite active on the site, always encouraging and gives good advice. I can only suggest you put her name into the search field and find a page where she's been most active. She's given Wendy advice, and Andrea too, plus many others. Then put a comment on the page, she should get the email notifying her of the post. Take care Wray

Mar 10, 2012
THANKS WRAY
by: aLISON

Thanks wray for the comment and i missed ya there. obviously i'm starting to level off a bit and i did google rosanne and left a message on her post-thank you. i have started sleeping well the last 2-3 days-finally and i feel as if i'm coming out of a 9 month alarm phase! whew...yes the adrenals make me so comical that i laugh for like hours. can't explain that cause as i've posted, sometimes i just crash. anyhow, we'll see how rosanne comments. i often wondeer about the women i've talked to on this site (you and wendy) as far as their daily life and i do hope you are doing so well and your life is very blessed. by the way i got the book! Daltons pms and progesterone therapy. OMG it is so good. Everyone should have this book because it covers differntial diagnosis and symptomolgy so well that i know now that my daughter has pms too! progesterone party! her symptoms are increasing every cycle. she's almost 13. got her cycle at 10. any advice on starting dosage for her? i'd love to know.

Mar 10, 2012
Hello Again
by: Wray

Hi Wendy I'm so pleased you and Alison have got together, that's the whole point of the site. There's only so much I can advise on, the wealth of experience from others is of such importance. Your problems starting at puberty speak volumes, you were evidently not ovulating each month, this quite often occurs. All the symptoms you mention could have been helped by progesterone. I had depression then too, and when my daughter at 14 said her friends had it, it reminded me of my own and I immediately put her on it! She's still using it and is now 30. Take care Wray

Mar 14, 2012
really feeling anxious all the time
by: alison

Dear Wray,

I was keeping at the 150mg but the burning skin was making me insane so i switched from my compounded 8% prog. to emerita (that i had from last year). So, I decreased to 50 mg daily-for 3 days and was doing good. I'm now on day 11 of my cycle and i've been going insane with anxiety since day 8. So, I've upped my dosage again to the 150mg. Have had 100 already today and cannot shake the anxiety. I'm getting so concerned with all of this and i feel like an addict. The anxiety came out of nowhere on the 8th. I don't know anylonger if this is the path for me. I'm concerned that if i keep going, i'll be in a bigger mess in another month. my doc says to try other calming aids like 5htp and taurine and gaba agonists. but i'm really concerned with not knowing what is doing what and i did stop taking them 2 weeks ago so that i could focus more on the prog. effects. i don't know if i should mix all this stuff together. is there any point too in taking a saliva test? what do you think? do you know anything about phenibut? My doc says that perhaps the anxiety is not due to prog. levels right now. i've read about everything on the site lately but i have not experienced this level of anxiety when i was not on the prog. i've been using it for 3 weeks now daily. i just don't know anylonger. i feel really racy and insomnia is getting worse again. i have to use 100mg of 8% cream to put me to sleep last night! Ugh, i'm tapped. i wonder how wendy is doing. also, i've had this pain under my right rib like where my liver is. been bloated too. but pain is concerning me. is the 8% cream dangerous/ it's all i have right now until i order natpro or stop alltogether. please let me know your tips. sincerely, alison

Mar 18, 2012
really feeling anxious all the time
by: Wray

Hi Alison I'm so sorry I missed your 10th March comment, and now you're back to square one again. I think you're struggling because you're not using enough progesterone. Plus you keep changing the amount you use. The reason you felt good dropping to 50mg/day was the progesterone was no longer stimulating oestrogen. But as you've found that level is far too low for you, and you had to up it again. But the 100mg/day is not enough either. I wish you would just try the 400mg/day. Please see what this did for MM and Andrea, see here. In fact Andrea's journey with progesterone was similar to yours. She kept increasing, then decreasing the amount, until finally she agreed to the 400mg/day. Interestingly her doctor also asked her to use this amount round about the time I asked her to. It is discouraging, but you mustn't forget you have not been using it for long. You now have Dr Dalton's book, which is so good. You'll notice the amounts she uses for her patients are way in excess of the ones I suggest. Maybe that's what I should do, just tell people to use 800mg/day until they feel better. Then begin reducing it. In fact that's what I'm doing now, I've been feeling stressed lately, plus I've eaten far too many carbs for me which makes me retain water, so have been using about 6tsp of cream or 1000mg/day. I'm already feeling better. The bloating is oestrogen, it causes water retention, see here, here, here and here. Oestrogen has the potential to cause liver damage, see here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Continued below.

Mar 18, 2012
really feeling anxious all the time Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Alison Whereas progesterone enhances glucuronidation, one of the main detoxifying systems in the liver, see here. I can understand why you want to stop, but you've given it not enough time, and not high enough an amount to have any effect, beyond making you feel worse. You asked about your daughter. I put mine on progesterone when she was fourteen, she still uses it and is now 30. I started her on about 100mg/day, she now uses more. An 8% cream is not dangerous, neither is a weaker strength. Progesterone has been used safely for over 60 years. Dr Dalton would give 2400mg/day to her patients with post natal psychosis. Traumatic Brain Injury victims are given over 1200mg/day via IV transfusion. Over 70% of these are men too. Take care Wray

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