2 chemical pregnancy in 2 months.. not enough cream??

by Molly
(Charlotte, NC)

I've decided that I need to become my own doctor or researcher, so here I am. A little background info.

I have a 4 year old son that we conceived on the first try. Had a super easy pregnancy and delivery with him. Just recently hubby and I decided to have another baby. We got pregnant on the first try again. I miscarried at 4 weeks and 4 days.

My doctors said it was probably a chromosome thing and said they would not do any test until a 3rd one happens. Geez thanks.

I began to research and then put myself on a special regimen of 80 mg of progesterone cream a day starting at 3 days past ovulation, 1 lose dose aspirin, and complete prenatal supplements. I got pregnant two weeks after the chemical pregnancy. I started having early upper back aches (just like with my first miscarriage) and had my dr. do an hcg test at 4 week and 3 days. My levels doubled and she assured me everything was fine. I knew something was wrong. Those upper back aches/shoulder blade pain was suspect. Sadly I lost that one at 6 weeks.

So here I am. My question is, do you think the 80 mg of progesterone cream was too low?? I got that dosage off Dr. John Lee's website. I started off with 20 mg after ovulation and gradually increased it to 80. I've always felt like I had low progesterone levels since having my son, but never did anything about it or have it tested.

My second miscarriage at 6 weeks was painless. I didn't have any symptoms like I had with my first one. I just started bleeding with no cramps or back aches. Very weird. Was this because of the progesterone? Do you think getting pregnant again right after that first miscarriage was too much on my body?

We still plan to try again, but in a few more months. I clearly do not have a problem with getting pregnant quickly it's just keeping it.

Comments for 2 chemical pregnancy in 2 months.. not enough cream??

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Oct 05, 2012
2 chemical pregnancy in 2 months.. not enough cream??
by: Wray

Hi Molly I do agree with you, I had 5 early miscarriages in 2 years, unfortunately no internet then. No one suggested progesterone, or supplements, I was taking those based on Adele Davis's observations. Like you I had no problems falling pregnant, just keeping it. I had no pain or cramping with any of mine, so I don't believe it's due to the progesterone you were using. 25% of all pregnancies end in a miscarriage, usually put down to 'chromosome thing', but to my mind more likely a 'progesterone thing'! In my case it was, as I was very stressed, and stress drops progesterone levels. In fact severe stress stops ovulation, so you can't fall pregnant. It is the case with testing, not until you've had 3 miscarriages do they bother with it. You do need to use more progesterone, the amount given for recurrent miscarriages and pre-term births ranges from 200-600mg/day. There are plenty of papers on our Pregnancy page, and more info here. You don't need the aspirin as progesterone naturally keeps blood thin, see here, here and here. It appears the essential thing to keeping a pregnancy going, is an early steep rise in progesterone, see here. So starting it 3 days post ovulation was too late, and increasing gradually was not giving sufficient progesterone. Not something many know, including doctors, but progesterone surges exponentially about 50 hours prior to ovulation. This surge comes from the brain, and it seems it's necessary for ovulation itself. Evidently you get the surge, but it appears your progesterone doesn't rise quickly enough after ovulation. Continued below.

Oct 05, 2012
2 chemical pregnancy in 2 months.. not enough cream?? Part 2
by: Wray

Hi Molly So it would be advisable to start the progesterone within those 50 hours, see here, here, here and here. It is best to give the body a rest to recover after having a miscarriage. I suggest you keep taking the supplements to help it, plus continue using the progesterone. There's info on the pregnancy page on how to use it prior to and during pregnancy. There are also two excellent videos about supplementing with vitamin D during pregnancy and lactation. Take care Wray

Oct 05, 2012
Form of progesterone
by: Anonymous

I have heard (from a pharmacist) that for pregnancy if you have a progesterone problem, that it needs to be suppositories. Maybe because the dosage needs to be high, or because it needs to be close to the uterus?

Oct 07, 2012
Form of progesterone
by: Wray

Hi there The vagina does absorb progesterone very well, and it will go directly to the uterus. But the cream can be applied in the vagina too. Progesterone travels rapidly through the circulation, so it reaches every cell within minutes after applying it topically. But I have found it works quicker if applied directly to a problem area, i.e. rubbing it on the tummy for period cramps, directly on to a burn or minor wound, directly on to piles, on the neck for migraines etc. The dose can be adjusted so easily with the cream too, but not with a suppository. We have many women using 1000 to 1400mg/day to resolve their symptoms. There's more info on our Delivery systems page. Take care Wray

Oct 22, 2012
Pregnant Again...but
by: Molly

Holy crap!! I'm the writer of the original post and I'm pregnant AGAIN!! Yep pregnant 3 times in a row and we tried to prevent so that my body could rest. We only had sex one time during my fertile days and used a spermicide. I wasn't even being as serious with my prenatals because I had planned on taking some time off to do my own testing.

Most women would be happy but I'm sad because today those upper backaches and shoulder pain started. I know what those mean.

What is going on with that??? I can't find anything online that would give me some kind of clue as to why I get these weird shoulder pains and then miscarry. Some people say it's a referred pain from internal bleeding.

I tried to be positive with my last pregnancy but I know these pains mean something bad.

I've been taking 200 mg of progesterone cream since the day after ovulation. I've also been taking a complete prenatal and b6.

I'm only about 12 days past ovulation and the test was positive this morning. I just don't know what to do. Do I double up on progesterone? Can anything be done? I told my doctor about the weird back pain I get and that's how I know the pregnancy is going to end and she looked at me like I was crazy.

I'm just frustrated and mad because I get pregnant so easily but can't even hold on to them.


Oct 24, 2012
Pregnant Again...but
by: Wray

Hi Molly Well you certainly don't have problems falling pregnant! Pity as you say, it happened so soon, as it is good to give the body a rest, but it's happened and was obviously meant. Please increase the progesterone to 400mg/day. Rub it anywhere there's pain, if necessary rub it on hourly. I don't know if you've started taking vitamin D, or had a test done, or read our pregnancy page and seen those videos. But vitamin D is vital for a successful pregnancy, a lack also causes miscarriages, see here, here and here. It's vital too for the developing foetus, particularly the brain. You should be taking a minimum of 6000iu's per day, although 10,000iu's would probably be better. Taurine is another nutrient you should consider too. It's also vital for pregnancy and the developing foetus. Taurine is also vital after birth, as a newborn cannot convert any from cysteine. So it's an essential amino acid for neonates, see here, here, here, here, here and here. A lack of taurine also causes dysfunction uterine bleeding, see here. These are some of the symptoms common to early pregnancy, nausea, breast fullness, fatigue, low abdominal pain, heavy cramping, shoulder pain and painful sexual intercourse. It could be the shoulder pain you experience has nothing to do with the miscarriage, and is just one symptom of early pregnancy. But as you don't get past the early stage, it's now associated with a miscarriage. But shoulder pain is associated with ectopic pregnancies, in which case it does mean there is internal bleeding, see here and here. So please increase the progesterone, take at least 6000iu's per day vitamin D, and about 1000-2000mg/day of taurine too. Take care Wray

Jan 27, 2013
Healthy pregnancy!
by: Molly

Hi Wray!

Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to respond to me during my time of need. I happy to announce the 3rd pregnancy stuck and I am now 18 weeks pregnant THANK GOD!

The 200 mg of progesterone cream was the best dosage and im still taking it. I also went to a chiropractor and he gave me some great vitamins to support my uterus during my 1st trimestet.

Its been a great pregnancy so far and its a boy!

Jan 29, 2013
Healthy pregnancy!
by: Wray

Hi Molly Oh I'm so delighted!! Wonderful news. Evidently all the previous miscarriages weren't a 'chromosome' thing, but just a lack of progesterone. Pleased you're taking a good complex, but don't forget the vitamin D needs to be at least 6000iu per day, and don't forget the taurine either. That's never included in prenatal complexes. Do let me know how you get on, and when you have the baby. Take care Wray

Nov 22, 2013
Progesterone medicine
by: Olga

Hi I was just reading about your posts here and curios to know if I should get the progesterone cream from my doctor or is it something that I can buy on my own I had a third chemical pregnancy this past week I'm 36 years old and my doctor tells me it's mainly chromosomes and my age should I ask him to test my progesterone levels?? I'm so confused and annoyed
I will really appreciate any answers.

Nov 29, 2013
Progesterone medicine
by: Wray

Hi Olga I think most of us go it alone, many doctors are opposed to progesterone, unless it’s an injection for IVF purposes. Did your doctor actually check for chromosomal errors, or is he just saying that? It’s generally believed that most of the miscarriages are caused by this, but rarely if ever is progesterone checked. If this drops or insufficient is produced, the foetus will abort. It will if there’s a lack of vitamin D too. Also if there is too much oestrogen or testosterone. Please have a Pregnancy you could look through, and another here. Plus this one here on progesterone cream. Take care Wray

Dec 19, 2014
Chemical Pregancy?
by: Whitney

I'm seriously hoping someone will help me too! My previous cycle my Dr. put me on progesterone for cycle day 21-27 because I was spotting. Well after I stopped I didn't start that day so I took an early Pregancy test and saw a faint positive. I took two that night both faint positives but my test from the next morning was negative. I took another one a few hours later and it was positive, faint again. But the last two, one last night and this morning were negative. My Dr. told me to double up my progesterone but I'm worried that it's a chemical pregnancy and all the progesterone is doing is holding off my bleeding because my tests are all over the place. I was cramping 5 days ago so I'm betting that was implantation. I don't know what to do, my breasts feel full, I'm exhausted, but I'm worried I've raises my hopes up for nothing

Jan 07, 2015
2 miscarriages feeling frustrated!!!!!
by: Lesley-anne

Sorry to jump in on your thread but I seem to be having similar problems and am desperate for help!! I am 38 years old and have 2 daughters aged 11 and 10. I've always have a few problems conceiving, this was always put down to being overweight and having irregular periods. A few years back it was found I wasn't ovulating as my progesterone was very low nothing was ever Don about it, now a few years later and with time against me I decided to do a little research and think I may have pcos as have a few of the symptoms August I find myself pregnant without really trying but I was concerned about the low progesterone so I went straight to the ddocs to explain my concerns and to ask if I would need it supplemented? I was told that if I got pregnant it must be fine but at around 5 weeks I miscarried. I then started to inositol and choline 800mg twice a day along with folic acid and a pre natal. I started taking these in September I then had a period on Oct 16th December I realise I've not had a period yet so took a test and was positive. I didn't know wether or not it was safe to take the inositol and choline whilst pregnant so I dropped it down to 400mg. again I raised my concerns about the progesterone levels and again I was told you managed to get pregnant! and now I find myself in the same situation again as i'm 12 weeks pregnant but at my scan the said it had stopped growing at 9 weeks as had no heart beat so I'm having medical management to empty the uterus on Tuesday. Every time I've been pregnant I have no pregnancy symptoms at all and I'm convinced all this is down to progesterone sorry for the long message and sorry for jumping on your thread but am desperate for any advice xx

Feb 18, 2015
How much cream should be taken to try and conceive?
by: C

I have read a whole lot on these posts and from what I see 200-600 mg/day is required if trying to concieve. If a tube of cream contains 2000mg are you saying that at the highest amount you are taking just under 1/3 of a tube/day for this?

Feb 24, 2015
How much cream should be taken to try and conceive?
by: Wray

Hi there Yes, 1 tube of 2000mg would last 3.3 days. There's a chart at the bottom of our page on How to use Progesterone Cream with more info. If there have been recurrent miscarriages I've found figures of up to 600mg/day are given. But if there has not been a miscarriage, or any other problem, then there's no need to use supplementary progesterone. Generally 200mg/day is enough if the problem conceiving is due to a lack of progesterone. Another factor which is never taken into account is Vitamin D, this is vital for a successful pregnancy and the growth of the foetus. Not only that but a lack of it reduces the benefits of progesterone and causes miscarriages. There's more info on our Pregnancy page. Take care Wray

May 01, 2015
Wishing to conceive
by: C.

I am very concerned that I will start too early with the cream and it will have an adverse effect to what I am trying to accomplish, conception! I read this: Contraception... Progesterone can be used as a contraceptive. It has none of the adverse side effects the drug based contraceptives can have.

It should be started 3 to 8 days or more before ovulation depending on the cycle length. This will stop the oestrogen surge which occurs 2-5 days before ovulation. This surge of oestrogen is necessary to complete the final step before ovulation.

My cycle is 24 days. I have read it all but if I use the cream for the 50 hour surge I may actually prevent pregnancy?
Help Pls
Thx C.

May 02, 2015
Wishing to conceive
by: Wray

Hi C If your cycle is 24 days you should ovulate ± day 17. It's best to get a mini microscope if you're unsure of the exact timing. So the progesterone should be started a day or two beforehand to boost the progesterone you're making. This is all explained on our page about Pregnancy. Take care Wray

May 02, 2015
Trying to concieve
by: C

The second half of the menstrual cycle is called the luteal or secretory phase. All women, irrespective of the length of their cycle, should start ovulating 12 to 14 fourteen days before the next menstruation. Progesterone is the dominant hormone.


So doesn't this mean that I would ovulate on day 11-13? Counting 12-14 days backwards from menstruation on day 24?

May 04, 2015
Trying to concieve
by: Wray

Hi C Oh dear my mind was somewhere else! You are quite correct. So start using the cream on day 11, although a mini microscope takes the guessing out of it. Take care Wray

May 20, 2015
On a personal note...
by: C.

Is there an email address Wray, that I could write to and ask you a few more personal questions and not have them appear on the forum? C.

May 22, 2015
On a personal note ...
by: Joy

Hi C

Wray simply does not have time to answer emails as her research and answering questions on the forums takes up so much of her time. If you like, please use the CONTACT button on the website and I will help you.

Take care.
Joy

Jun 10, 2015
Chemical pregnancy
by: Anonymous

IHi Molly, were you able to conceive? I had a chemical pregnancy two months ago. Hope you don't mind me asking.

Jul 09, 2015
Update
by: Molly

Hi I'm the creator of this thread. I updated it a while ago but forgot to come back again as promised.

To recap, after the two chemical pregnancies back to back I conceived again the following month. I was having the same pre-miscarriage symptoms as before but immediately upped my progesterone to 200 mg.

I used the cream version I purchase online and rubbed it on my belly twice a day. I also went to the chiropractor at 9 weeks and he gave me a series of vitamins to support and strengthen my uterus (although I think it was the progesterone that worked)

Within a few days of upping my progesterone the miscarriage symptoms stopped. I was nervous that the progesterone was simply postponing an inevitable miscarriage but sure enough at 6 weeks we heard the heartbeat! Heaven!

The pregnancy went great and my healthy little boy was born at 38 weeks. I continued taking the progesterone throughout the pregnancy and slowly begin to decrease the amount at 35 weeks. The day I stopped taking it completely was I went into labor so that's why I definitely believe progesterone (and God) is why this pregnancy was able to progress and not the others.

If and when we decide to try for another baby I will follow this same regimen.

Blessings & healthy babies to all of you out there that has found this post after suffering a miscarriage. It's such a sad and frustrating time and doctors can be so insensitive after an early miscarriage.

This website is full of information and I hope that you find your answers here.



Jul 10, 2015
Update
by: Joy

Hi Molly

That is wonderful news and thank you for sharing it will us. There are so many who simply do not understand the benefits of progesterone and how to use it correctly.

Vitamin D is vital as a deficiency reduces the benefits of progesterone.

Take care.

Oct 08, 2015
Please give advice
by: Anonymous

I am on my second month in a row of a chemical pregnancy. I feel devastated. Please give me advice. I was supposed to get my period on 10/5/2015 but did not get it. On that same day I tested positive with 2 diff brands digital and the line one. The next day I did two other brands just to be sure. This morning I started bleeding. Yesterday I went to get blood work, and was called this morning and they said my blood hcg level is 2. =/
Last month I had another chemical pregnancy but I began to bleed over 1 week after my missed period. I have 3 healthy children and have never had any trouble getting or staying pregnant.

Please advise me what to do .

Oct 11, 2015
Please give advice
by: Joy

Hi Anonymous

I am pretty sure that I have already answered your question, you don't give your name so I can't confirm this.

Take care.

Dec 01, 2015
2nd misscarraige in 2 months
by: Anonymous

Im currently seeing a RE she started me on clomid and ovidrel. i took that and got a positive test on 11/27th hcg at that time was 46.2 went back three days later for the test to tell me it was 46.6 and again i was most likely misscarrying. I Had a misscarraige at 6 weeks in july. all the tests came back normal my progesterone level on the 20th was 14 which my office said was a good number and i should be able to maintain the pregnancy if it took. And here i am 2 weeks later being told im most likely having a chemical pregnancy. Soooo Frustrating, i started taking vit d 2000 daily per my drs request and waiting for the blood work results on that. My question is should i go to the store and buy this progesterone cream that everyone is talking about. What do you guys think ?

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